Re: OT: learner kits (was: Re: using new technology on old machines)
On Jun 19, 2015, at 19:19 , Tapley, Mark mtap...@swri.edu wrote: He has a Raspberry Pi, which he pretty much contempts in favor of his laptop, which will play the modern version of MineCraft :-P, but presumably hooking those together might be fun. I suspect that boards like the Raspberry Pi, Arduino, etc. might get a lot more interesting if they can affect the real world. See if a servo motor adds some appeal. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: Looking for info on National Semiconductor RAM board (VAX 11/730)
On Jun 20, 2015, at 07:58, tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: Oh, and it mentions a 'spare RAM chip in a socket on the board'. All RAM on my board is, indeed, socketed. If this is just an unused chip to substitute if one fails then I think I've seen it all... I thought of throwing that idea out there, but having lived through the great RAM famine the thought of a spare RAM chip seemed kind of silly. Incidentally, the RAMs are all soldered on my Camintonn boards. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net http://www.nf6x.net/
Looking for info on National Semiconductor RAM board (VAX 11/730)
I am looking for any information on a National Semiconductor RAM board that I think goes in a VAX 11/730. My 11/730 (which admittedly I have not run) has 2 DEC MS730 boards and 2 of these NatSemi boards, I found another one while unpacking stuff today. It's a hex height DEC-type board with the ejector handles. Connections to fingers on A and B as you might expect, also the grant continuity strapping on C and D, grounds on D (only) and a couple of signals on C (I've not figured out what yet). The only identification I can find on it is in the etch : PWB 551109464-002 B PWA 980109464 (I assume the first is the part number for the bare PCB, the second for the stuffed board) There seems to be one RAM too many!. The main RAM array is 4 rows each of 32 4164-like DRAMs. There is a second block of 28 such DRAMs, presumably 7 bits for each row of the main array to provide the ECC bits. And then a further single RAM off to one side. The DEC MS730 doesn't seem to have this, and I wonder what on earth it is for. Rest of the board is TTL drivers, etc. There are 2 LEDs, one green, one yellow. And a momentary pushbutton switch. I have no idea of the functions of those. Does anyone recognise this board? A related point, I am thinking of removing the TSU05 from my 11/730 and putting an expansion box in place of the tape drive in the rack. In which case I can install this memory board. Is 5MBytes (the maximum an 11/730 can take) worth having over 4MBytes? -tony
Re: Wright Line punch manual
Like this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wright-Punch-Model-2600-/331580084313 I'm not sure it really needs a manual. I repaired one with a careful disassemble and cleaning. On mine, the cord linking the tension spring to the mechanism had broken. A trip to the hardware store found something similar. It took a few tries to get the right length and tension, but it works now. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Dennis Boone d...@msu.edu wrote: Does anyone have routine maintenance information (e.g. user or service manuals) for the Wright Line manual punches? My newly acquired unit seems to need a little lubrication. I'll guess if I have to, but... This is the variety with the large grey wheel on the side to select the desired character, and a sort of wheelhouse in the middle to hide the cams, ribbon mechanism, etc. There's no model number sticker on it. Thanks! De
RE: Looking for info on National Semiconductor RAM board (VAX 11/730)
[Argh! Following up my own post :-(] I am looking for any information on a National Semiconductor RAM board that I think goes in a VAX 11/730. My 11/730 (which admittedly I have not run) has 2 DEC MS730 boards and 2 of these NatSemi boards, I found another one while unpacking stuff today. [...] The only identification I can find on it is in the etch : PWB 551109464-002 B PWA 980109464 [...] There seems to be one RAM too many!. The main RAM array is 4 rows each of 32 4164-like DRAMs. Rest of the board is TTL drivers, etc. There are 2 LEDs, one green, one yellow. And a momentary pushbutton switch. I have no idea of the functions of those. That switch may well be latching (alternate action). I wasnt't pressing it hard enough. It seems to be wired directly to the yellow LED (amongst other things). I have found a mention of this board in an 11/750 FAQ (not surprising, I think the same 1M boards can be used in the 11/750 and 11/730). It appears that in normal operation both LEDs are on. Pressing the button turns off the yellow LED and completely disables the board. Quite why you'd want to do this I do not know... Oh, and it mentions a 'spare RAM chip in a socket on the board'. All RAM on my board is, indeed, socketed. If this is just an unused chip to substitute if one fails then I think I've seen it all... -tony
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
On Jun 19, 2015, at 10:55 PM, Toby Thain t...@telegraphics.com.au wrote: On 2015-06-19 11:21 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote: On 19 June 2015 at 22:38, William Donzelli wdonze...@gmail.com wrote: Let him play Minecraft. Start with simple redstone contraptions, then move to command blocks. I'm not ashamed to admit I (24 y/o) play Minecraft now and again (with friends on their own private servers). I'd suggest anyone serious about trying to get someone into logic and programming with Minecraft ... ... NOT do that. Sorry, had to be said. Minecraft has nothing to do with logic or electronics and would just be an unnecessarily obtuse way of approaching it. For an adult with too much time on their hands? Sure... —Toby “minecraft physics” is already a derogatory term around the house. And, whether I encourage it or not, he’s already into building complicated redstone sequencers. I’m hoping at least to expand his horizons into real-world projects. Minecraft computing has the asset that his “logic” is easy to interface to the “real” (ack, spit!) world, so that makes me realize that a stepper motor or something similar (suggested in the original thread) is a pretty good idea to add to the stack at some point. Generally speaking, I’m with you, Toby, but we are already there trying to get back….
Re: Need DZQ11 (M3106) Print Set
{Re-send, since apparently a lot of mail to CCTalk yesterday went into the bit
bucket...}
I guess I've struck out here? That's such bad luck; other things, there are
multiple copies out there, but apparently none at all of this one...
Oh well, I guess I'll start with the DZQ11 TM, and with an ohm-meter try and
trace out the initialization circuitry (which is clearly broken) at least.
Noel
RE: Looking for info on National Semiconductor RAM board (VAX 11/730)
I thought of throwing that idea out there, but having lived through the great RAM famine the thought of a spare RAM chip seemed kind of silly. Incidentally, the RAMs are all soldered on my Camintonn boards. All the RAMs (but not the buffers) on the NatSemi boards are in sockets. And I am not sure this is a Good Thing, they are not good quality sockets at all. They're the very cheap ones that make contact with one side of the IC pin only. But replacing the lot with turned pin is something I will only do if I start having RAM problems on those boards. I've done a little buzzing out with an ohmmeter : The green LED + a 270R resistor are across the 5V line (which is presumably the battery backed memory supply line. if you have that optio). I assume this indicates the board is powered up. The moving contact of the switch is grounded. One of the other contacts of the switch goes to the yellow LED + 270R to +5V. So as suggested, the yellow LED indicates the state of the switch. The other contact goes into the logic. I've not traced it all out yet, but it would appear to disable many of the buffers when it is low (i.e. when the yellow LED is off). So the idea that the yellow LED is on for normal operation and the switch can turn it off and disable the board makes a lot of sense. That 'extra' RAM gets power, but nothing else. As far as I can tell none of the other pins go anywhere. Isn't that a bad idea, to have a MOS device with all inputs floating? I would have thought it would have been better to tie eveything (including the +5V pin) to ground, or to power the RAM but have pull-up resistors on all the inputs. -tony
Re: 6 historic tech items that were rescued from the trash
I have gotten some of my best stuff from the trash ... One day I will never forget when I was doing my undergrad... the CS department had just gotten their own building (previously EE/CS shared a building) and they were cleaning house and moving out ... it was incredible; the gallery on each of the four floors of the building had just a long row of wheelie bins... they were each probably twice the size of your average shop garbage can ... and they were just piled high with old workstations, peripherals, parts, cables, software, books ... Long having lost my shame about garbage digging, LOL, I got almost first crack at it ... once they saw me doing it, the rest of the students realized that it was open season ... everyone went home happy with armloads of stuff ... much celebration was had ... it was great :O Fortunately the office where I was working part-time let me stash some stuff while I digested it into loads that I could carry on the bus :O Best, Sean On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Lyle Bickley lbick...@bickleywest.com wrote: Thought this article from Infoworld would encourage all of us whose goal is rescuing vintage computers from scrap heaps: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2937725/computer-hardware/6-historic-tech-items-rescued-from-the-trash.html?phint=newt%3Dinfoworld_dailyphint=idg_eid%3D2511c0bc45ea0a66d3aef6ff3e21d1b1#slide1 Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com Black holes are where God is dividing by zero
Re: HP 2113e Battery resistor
Ah thanks, this is what these are for, thermistors. They are supposed to monitor the temperature somewhere I suppose? Attached to the batteries? The power supplies? The computer won't start without these I understand? Sorry I am a bit of a newbee with HP 1000's. Have not tried to power mine quite yet. Marc Glen Slick glen.sl...@gmail.com said The Temperature Sense Thermistor RT1, normaly 815 ohms, is wired across the two outside pins of the middle row, pins 4 and 6. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Jun79_9.p df Description page 111 Schematic page 168
Re: HP 2113e Battery resistor
I have only looked at the B version of the power supply as that is what I have in my 2117F. (Now that I think of it I'm not sure what version of the power supply I have in my 2113B). The details for that are covered in the 5061-1356 section of the 92851-90001_Jun79_9.pdf manual referenced below starting on page 84 of the PDF. As described in section 3-9 on page 105 of the PDF the Power Fail Recovery System (PFRS) option consists of the Battery Charger Board (A3A3) and the Battery Backup Board (A3A4) which are mounted internally in the power supply, and the external mounted Battery/Status Assembly. If the PFRS option is not present the Jumper Board (A3A4) is installed internally in the power supply instead of the Battery Charger Board (A3A3) and the Battery Backup Board (A3A4). If you open up your system far enough to remove the lid on the power supply you can visually inspect the installed boards to determine whether or not the PFRS option is installed in the power supply. The battery pack over-temperature thermistor is integrated into the battery pack. It ends up being connected to the TEMP1 and TEMP2 signals shown on the Battery Charger Board (A3A3) schematic Sheet 6 on page 136 of the PDF. If the PFRS option is not installed the Battery Charger Board (A3A3) is not present and there is nothing that would connect to the battery pack thermistor so it is not necessary for the operation of the power supply. If the PFRS option is installed but the thermistor or resistor equivalent is not connected the CPU will power on but will not be functional. I think all of the front panel lights turn on and none of the switches have any effect. It's been a long time since I looked at that in detail to figure out what was going on. I think some of the voltages are at the correct level, but maybe the memory voltages are not, and some of the power supply status signals (PSU?, PON?) indicate the power supply is not ready and that holds the system in the inactive state. -Glen On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Marc Verdiell marc.verdi...@gmail.com wrote: Ah thanks, this is what these are for, thermistors. They are supposed to monitor the temperature somewhere I suppose? Attached to the batteries? The power supplies? The computer won't start without these I understand? Sorry I am a bit of a newbee with HP 1000's. Have not tried to power mine quite yet. Marc Glen Slick glen.sl...@gmail.com said The Temperature Sense Thermistor RT1, normaly 815 ohms, is wired across the two outside pins of the middle row, pins 4 and 6. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Jun79_9.p df Description page 111 Schematic page 168
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
And one more mine craft thingy, with a raspberry pi twist: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/withpiper/piper-a-minecraft-toolbox-for-budding-engineers They had these set up on pi day at the CHM and the kids involved really seemed to get into the physical interfacing and puzzles. Sent from my iPad On Jun 20, 2015, at 12:34 PM, William Donzelli wdonze...@gmail.com wrote: “minecraft physics” is already a derogatory term around the house. And, whether I encourage it or not, he’s already into building complicated redstone sequencers. I’m hoping at least to expand his horizons into real-world projects. Good. He has picked up the ball, now let him run with it. Even in unmodded Minecraft, you can do some amazing things with the redstone logic coupled with command blocks (yes, Mr. Grumpy Man Thain, with redstone you can have real gates and flipflops and race conditions and such. Go explore Youtube about it.). I think there are mods for non-RPi Minecraft that allows an interface to the real world, so when the time comes, he can start breaking out. I think Factorio is also getting some real logic systems, as well. It is a better game, but not really geared for the younger crowd. -- Will -- Will
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
Right. Get 'em hooked on Minecraft, and then it'll be easier to push them into harder drugs like VHDL later! :) There is a good grain of truth to that. In complex Minecraft command block systems, a programmer has to think about many, many tasks, running in parallel, each triggered by real time events connected with the redstone logic network. That starts to sound like Verilog. In thinking further - I might think that learning to do complex Minecraft command block systems is probably *better* for training future engineers that giving them a bunch of TTL and a protoboard. -- Will
Re: Need DZQ11 (M3106) Print Set
Hi Noel,
If you have a minute, call me.
Thanks, Paul
On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Noel Chiappa j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
wrote:
{Re-send, since apparently a lot of mail to CCTalk yesterday went into the
bit
bucket...}
I guess I've struck out here? That's such bad luck; other things, there are
multiple copies out there, but apparently none at all of this one...
Oh well, I guess I'll start with the DZQ11 TM, and with an ohm-meter try
and
trace out the initialization circuitry (which is clearly broken) at least.
Noel
Re: Nopecraft - was Re: OT: learner kits
On 2015-06-20 8:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote: Right. Get 'em hooked on Minecraft, and then it'll be easier to push them into harder drugs like VHDL later! :) There is a good grain of truth to that. In complex Minecraft command block systems, a programmer has to think about many, many tasks, running in parallel, each triggered by real time events connected with the redstone logic network. That starts to sound like Verilog. Except with pointless obfuscation and click'n'drool topping. Standing by NOPE here. --Toby In thinking further - I might think that learning to do complex Minecraft command block systems is probably *better* for training future engineers that giving them a bunch of TTL and a protoboard. -- Will
