PDP-8/a cleaning

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

Hi

My PDP-8/A is up for restoration. More specifically and 8A100 according 
to it's ID plate. It is in overall "ok" shape but oh so dusty.

I'd like to give it a good cleaning so I'm tearing it down. And I'm 
looking for suggestion to cleaning the backplane and regulator board.

I'm considering putting the Omnibus part under warm water and perhaps a 
bit of mild detergent. Should I get distilled water or will tap do? The 
water here is not very "hard"

The regulator backplane has a relay and a button which will never dry 
out if I soak it...

Thanks in advance,
Pontus.

Re: Bitsavers size

[ben via cctalk]

On 4/24/2017 5:30 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On 23 April 2017 at 16:53, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
 wrote:

Or a single LTO3 cartridge, with room to spare ;-)


So what we need to do is calculate the bandwidth of a truck full of
LTO-3 tapes hurtling down a highway, surely?


Trucks only come with bales of hay,babes and a few dusty 8 tracks.
:)

Re: What would cause a regular pattern of bad sectors?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 04/24/2017 02:40 PM, Terry Stewart wrote:

> Guys, you were on the right track.  I looked carefully the disk
> surface while rotating it.  It's subtle but there is a radial
> kink/distortion in the platter.  You can only really see it if you
> have strong light, like that from a bulb, reflecting off the media
> surface.  As you rotate the disk at one point this reflection
> distorts and one can see a kink of sorts.
> 
> What would have caused this?  Something hot resting against it?
> Just old age or poor quality (disk is no that old...from 2003)?
> 
> Is there anyway to straighten out such distortions.  It doesn't seem
> to be a loose/flaky media issue so I'm thinking washing the platter
> isn't likely to help. yes?  Or would the warm water help?


If this were an 8" or 5.25" disk,I'd recommend that you try a few
different drive makes.   There were substantial differences in
technology back then  (often resulting in lawsuits for infringement).

For example, a Tandon 5.25" drive tends to use heavier loading and
"iron" the disk more than, say, a Mitsubishi one, which used a gimbaled
head and much lower loading.  Basically the idea was a tradeoff between
"following" the disk  waves or flattening them out.

But for 3.5" drives, I don't have a clue--perhaps coating with some
cyclomethicone might result in some surface-tension type adhesion and
make the floppy easier to read.

--Chuck

Re: What would cause a regular pattern of bad sectors?

[Terry Stewart via cctalk]

>
>
> My guess on the symptoms described is a scratch or spill.  Sometimes
> these floppies can be brought back by a simple cleaning of the cookie.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
Guys, you were on the right track.  I looked carefully the disk surface
while rotating it.  It's subtle but there is a radial kink/distortion in
the platter.  You can only really see it if you have strong light, like
that from a bulb, reflecting off the media surface.  As you rotate the disk
at one point this reflection distorts and one can see a kink of sorts.

What would have caused this?  Something hot resting against it?  Just old
age or poor quality (disk is no that old...from 2003)?

Is there anyway to straighten out such distortions.  It doesn't seem to be
a loose/flaky media issue so I'm thinking washing the platter isn't likely
to help. yes?  Or would the warm water help?

Terry (Tez)

Re: Tektronix 8560 floppies

[Christian Groessler via cctalk]

On 04/24/17 17:54, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
that reminds me I wanted to see if the a.out format was compatible 
with stock V7
and if the tools would run on an ordinary PDP-11 Unix V7 system. 


If you want I can send you some sample execuables to test...

I wanted to test the same but I first have to set-up V7 (on an emulator)...


regards,
chris

Re: Genuine KM11 board (and plea for RX01 Front Bezel)

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk
 wrote:
> Tony D. wrote:
>
>> Are any DEC enthusiasts here jealous of this :
>>https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_duell/33427116663/in/dateposted-public/
>
> Interesting coincidence.   I was digging through some boxes of stuff 
> yesterday, and I came
> across two sets of these in really nice condition.   Haven't tested 'em yet 
> (had /no/ idea
> that they could be used for diagnosis of an RX01 control board) but looks 
> like they should
> be pretty simple to check out.  I had didn't know of the existence of these 
> before yesterday.
> I did a little searching and found that they are useful for debugging 11/35 
> and 11/40 systems,
> as well as RK05 drives...but didn't see anything about the RX01 drive 
> electronics.

They are certainly used with the 11/35 and 11/40. Also with the 11/05
and 11/10, I think
the 11/20 has a slot for them (that's what the labels in the etch of a
genuine KM11 seem
to be for) and the 11/45. Possibly other Unibus processors

AFAIK they are not used with RK05 drives, but are used with both types of Unibus
controller for same (RK11-C and RK11-D). And the RK11 of course.

Possibly other things, but those are the ones I've come across.

>
> Speaking of RX01's, does anyone out there have a spare front bezel for the 
> RX01
> that they'd be willing to part with?
> I have a working RX01 on my 8/e system (both drives good, amazingly) but the
> bezel was missing when I got it.
> It'd be nice to have, as it looks rather dumpy in the rack with the rest of 
> the system.

Pity you're not in the UK. I have a spare RX02 that I don't really
need... I don't
want to strip it for parts but I could be convince to part with the
complete thing.

-tony

Re: Genuine KM11 board

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Tony Duell

>  Are any DEC enthusiasts here jealous of this

Actually, not me! I'm an old enough campaigner that I recall when real light
bulbs were standard, and they were a total PITA! So when LED's arrived, we
all though they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. So I'm now very
happy with my LED-equipped KM11 clones - I still have that anti-bulb bias! :-)

Noel

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Jim Brain  wrote:
> 
> For now, since the KB is most needed and somewhat hard to find, and since I 
> design HW for classic machines, I think a small uC and some wire might tide 
> me over until I can find a reasonably priced KB. I did a quick check, but 
> have not seen any writeup of the protocol and keyscan matrix. Does such a 
> thing exist?

I haven't seen such although I know a few folks with ambitions of such project. 
 I can put you in touch if they're not actively listening to this list and want 
to chime in.

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Jim Brain  wrote:
> 
> I'll email off-list about disks, as I truly know so little about the unit, 
> I'm not sure what to ask for.

Certainly.

> 
> Are you considering going to Assembly? If so, I'd defer to your exhibit, as 
> you know much more about these units.

Yes, I'm one of the founders. :)
> 
> I'd like to at least try out the XENIX side, if I can. Linux on a 386 is 
> nice, but it's just not the same. 
> 
Agree completely.  There's nothing like running a true Unix descendent on 
legacy hardware.

> I suspect all of the drives will need attention, but I could be surprised.

More likely than not especially give the condition you mention.  The TM-848s 
are not the most hearty of drives.

Re: Tektronix 8560 floppies

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 4/24/17 6:55 AM, Christian Groessler via cctalk wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've imaged (with ImageDisk) some floppies I've got with my "new" 8560 system.


that reminds me I wanted to see if the a.out format was compatible with stock V7
and if the tools would run on an ordinary PDP-11 Unix V7 system.

RE: Computer pickup

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

Richard Byron
Computer Reset
9525 Skillman St
Dallas, TX
214-348-6484

Richard is one of the nicest old men I have ever met! He has been repairing
computers and terminals since 1983.
Please be aware that if you have allergies, PLEASE take Benadryl or
something before you go.
The aisles are only about 2 feet wide, and crammed full of everything. The
place stinks, like something crawled under a pallet and died.
There are bugs everywhere, and one pallet full of termites.

Even so, it is a real treasure trove. I hope you and some other guys can
rescue the stuff before more deterioration. He is looking for at least $1000
per cabinet.

Cindy

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gil Carrick
via cctalk
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 2:01 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Computer pickup

Cindy Croxton

 

I am interested in the stuff. Please contact me.

 

Gil

--

A. G. (Gil) Carrick, Director

Museum of Information Technology at Arlington

1012 Portofino Drive

Arlington, TX 76012

817-994-9213 (cell) - gil.carrick (Skype) http://MIT-A.com

 

RE: Genuine KM11 board (and plea for RX01 Front Bezel)

[Rick Bensene via cctalk]

Tony D. wrote:

> Are any DEC enthusiasts here jealous of this :
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_duell/33427116663/in/dateposted-public/

Interesting coincidence.   I was digging through some boxes of stuff yesterday, 
and I came across two sets of these in really nice condition.   Haven't tested 
'em yet (had /no/ idea that they could be used for diagnosis of an RX01 control 
board) but looks like they should be pretty simple to check out.  I had didn't 
know of the existence of these before yesterday.   I did a little searching and 
found that they are useful for debugging 11/35 and 11/40 systems, as well as 
RK05 drives...but didn't see anything about the RX01 drive electronics.   

Speaking of RX01's, does anyone out there have a spare front bezel for the RX01 
that they'd be willing to part with?  
I have a working RX01 on my 8/e system (both drives good, amazingly) but the 
bezel was missing when I got it. 
It'd be nice to have, as it looks rather dumpy in the rack with the rest of the 
system.

Best wishes to all,
-Rick
--
Rick Bensene
The Old Calculator Museum
http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
Beavercreek, Oregon  USA

Re: What would cause a regular pattern of bad sectors?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 04/24/2017 06:51 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote:

> Many format programs don't look at the index anymore as it isn't
> important for reading the disk. It is only used to indicate that the
> disk is turning.

That may be true for some systems, but for the NEC 765-based controllers
found in PCs, the format operation always starts at the index (and ends
there too).  What isn't dependent on the index is the sector ordering;
it's not at all uncommon to see a cylinder- and track- skew factor built
in, such that cylinder 0, side 0 starts with sector numbering
1,2,3...18; cylinder  0, side 1 starts as 4,5,6...18,1,2,3 and so  on.
 It avoids a lost rev when moving from track to track.

Similarly, when reading, if the IDAM for a desired sector isn't seen
after 2 index pulses, the 765 calls it a "not found".

There are index-ignorant controllers out there, but the PC isn't one of
those.

My guess on the symptoms described is a scratch or spill.  Sometimes
these floppies can be brought back by a simple cleaning of the cookie.

--Chuck

Re: Genuine KM11 board

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk
>  wrote:
>>  Are any DEC enthusiasts here jealous of this :
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_duell/33427116663/in/dateposted-public/
>
> Yes.  I have a replica KM-11 but the real thing is cool.

Yes, I have a replica too. I made it before I got the real ones (I have 2
genuine KM11s...)

What I don't have, but have the prints for, is the W133 module, which is
a dual-height version of the board of transistors (I forget if that's the W130
or W131). I do not know if there was ever a dual height lamps board to
go with it, or if you just used 2 single-height boards.

-tony

Re: Genuine KM11 board

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk
 wrote:
>  Are any DEC enthusiasts here jealous of this :
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_duell/33427116663/in/dateposted-public/

Yes.  I have a replica KM-11 but the real thing is cool.

-ethan

Tektronix 8560 floppies

[Christian Groessler via cctalk]

Hi,

I've imaged (with ImageDisk) some floppies I've got with my "new" 8560 
system.


You can find them at 
ftp://ftp.groessler.org/pub/chris/tektronix/8560/diskimages .


Among other things there are cross-assemblers for 68000, 6809, and 6800.
From the TNIX installation disk set one is missing (disk 5 of 5).

I'm looking for the Z8000 cross-assembler for TNIX.

Does anyone have it?

regards,
chris

Re: What would cause a regular pattern of bad sectors?

[dwight via cctalk]

Heat damage can cause a fold or wrinkle as well.

Many format programs don't look at the index anymore as it isn't important for 
reading the disk. It is only used to indicate that the disk is turning.

That is why you see it moving each time you reformat. It is the same place on 
the disk surface.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Paul Koning via 
cctalk 
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 6:16:26 AM
To: Terry Stewart; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: What would cause a regular pattern of bad sectors?


> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:44 AM, Terry Stewart via cctalk  
> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Ive been extracting data off a 3.5 inch windows XP-formatted floppy disk
> with many bad sectors.  The odd thing is it's always the same bad sectors
> on every track.  Such a 3, 8, 12 and 17.  Once or twice it might be just 3,
> 8 and 17.  Or occasionally 3, 8, 9 12, 17.  This patten is the same for
> every track.  It's  (more or less) always the same sectors that are bad.
> Why?  I can't believe natural degredation would be so consistent.  Anyone
> have any thoughts?

A radial scratch on the media?

paul

Re: What would cause a regular pattern of bad sectors?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:44 AM, Terry Stewart via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> Ive been extracting data off a 3.5 inch windows XP-formatted floppy disk
> with many bad sectors.  The odd thing is it's always the same bad sectors
> on every track.  Such a 3, 8, 12 and 17.  Once or twice it might be just 3,
> 8 and 17.  Or occasionally 3, 8, 9 12, 17.  This patten is the same for
> every track.  It's  (more or less) always the same sectors that are bad.
> Why?  I can't believe natural degredation would be so consistent.  Anyone
> have any thoughts?

A radial scratch on the media?

paul

What would cause a regular pattern of bad sectors?

[Terry Stewart via cctalk]

Hi guys,

Ive been extracting data off a 3.5 inch windows XP-formatted floppy disk
with many bad sectors.  The odd thing is it's always the same bad sectors
on every track.  Such a 3, 8, 12 and 17.  Once or twice it might be just 3,
8 and 17.  Or occasionally 3, 8, 9 12, 17.  This patten is the same for
every track.  It's  (more or less) always the same sectors that are bad.
Why?  I can't believe natural degredation would be so consistent.  Anyone
have any thoughts?

Terry (tez)

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:37 AM, Peter Cetinski  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Just  picked up a TRS-80 Model 12, and it boot to the "insert disk 
>> prompt" ...  Yay!
>> 
>> Jim
> 
> 
> You can find the MC68000 board set (you’ll need a CPU board and at least one 
> memory board) on eBay quite often.  In most cases, it will be the Model 16 
> 6Mhz board which will allow you to run TRS-XENIX 1.x.  If you’re lucky, 
> you’ll find the Model 6000 8Mhz board which will allow you to run Xenix 3.2.  
> Finding a card cage is the hard part.  These are extremely rare but do pop up 
> from time to time.  There is another option called the Hans-02 and 03 
> adapters created by Hans Rietveld which is a modern replacement for the card 
> cage.  You can find them on Ian Mavric’s site.
> 
> http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/Hans/ 
> 

Correction: You’d want the Hans 03 and 04

In regards to the keyboard, the later Model 12/16B/6000 keyboards are hard to 
find.  The Model II keyboard is more common.  You can easily use the Model 
II/16 keyboard with these by creating a new 5pin DIN cable and switching a few 
of the keyboard input pins and swapping the gender of the connector.

Re: Genuine KM11 board

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:35:13AM +0100, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
>>  Are any DEC enthusiasts here jealous of this :
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_duell/33427116663/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>
> A little bit. I like your key fob, although it must be quite
> uncomfortable in a pocket :) Perhaps the only place I'd favour a knuckle
> buster grant card over a full length one.

There are actually _2_ grant cards on the keyring. The Unibus one and
a very short single-height Qbus one (I think it came from Interlan originally).
And yes, I do carry them in my pocket all the time...

-tony

RE: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Jim Brain via cctalk 
[cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:43 PM
To: couryho...@aol.com; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ 
area)

On 4/23/2017 10:21 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> is the 12 the thing that looks like  a  trs 80 mod  2  in size? if  so
> i have some
Yes, with 2 8" slimline drives (tandon?)

> what is the history behind  your  unit!?!?!?!?!?!?
Not much known at present.  As some know, the 26th Annual CocoFEST!
(TRS-80 Color Computer) fest happened this weekend in Chicago.  This
year, the group courted the non Coco TRS-80 crowd, so there were some
Model I/III/4 stuff there as well.

Anyway, as a way to make enough money to keep the show going another
year, they hold a nice charity auction.  It's a fun time, and everyone
bids to ensure the show reaps the funds needed to continue things.

Well, this year, Jason Timmons (of VCF-MW fame) brought in 2 Model 12
units for the auction.  As I understand, he had grand intentions, but
time grew short, and he decided the see these units off to a nice home
and help out the show.

Ever since the 2016 VCF-MW show and seeing the Model 6000 BBS, I've been
eyeing a Model II-like system.  (6000s are really expensive).

When Jason told me these were in the auction, I jumped at the chance to
bid.  I and a Model II/16 owner entertained the audience for a while,
but I prevailed and secured both units (it was a combined lot).

One is not too bad in shape, cosmetically, but the other has a cracked
case and is severely yellowed.  Jason had never booted the machines, and
everyone assumed it would require both units to make one running unit.

I just made it home a few hours ago from the show, and I powered both
units (risky, but sometimes, we are all kids).  Both come up with crisp
screens to the boot prompt.

I opened both units, and the yellowed unit actually has the cleaner
interior, while the nicer unit is OK inside, but has a bit of the white
corrosion on metal parts like the drive mechs, etc.

I'll ask Jason for more history, but I can only speak to my knowledge of
this weekend (and the fact that i managed to get all of my Coco stuff,
my daughter, myself, and the 2 complete units home in a smart Fortwo
car... That was an engineering feat in itself).

My goal is to see if I can get them running and potentially running Unix
by TANDY Assembly in October.  I think Jason would like seeing that they
went to a good home and are well cared for.

But, drive state is unknown, no boot disks, no card cage, no 68K, no
more RAM, and no KB (though Jason said he thought he had a broken KB for
it he could ship).  I suppose the more prudent thing would be to part
them out, but I really want a 8" machine (I realize I'm a noob compared
to the rest here, but David Lightman's 8" floppies and his IMSAI 8080
with the dual 8" drives made a distinct impression)



> Yes---  I am in Phx!  Ed#
Cool.  I am glad I sent out an email, though I thought everyone would
internally laugh (what's the goober doing now).  I'll contact off list.

Jim
___

There was never a 68K in the Model 12.  The Model 12 is to the Model 2
what the 6000 was to the 16.  It should make a great CP/M machine, though.
I used to run Pickles&Trout but I imagine chances of finding that are slim
today.  Might need to get the CP/M Archives and try rolling your own.

bill

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Peter Cetinski via cctalk]

> 
> In a message dated 4/23/2017 8:14:33 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
> cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:
> 
> Just  picked up a TRS-80 Model 12, and it boot to the "insert disk 
> prompt" ...  Yay!
> 
> But, no card cage, and no KB (and no disks, but those might be  easier to 
> find)
> 
> I'd like to get this unit up to the Model 16 specs,  with Xenix on it.  I 
> see the cards are available, but without the  cage, no joy.
> 
> 
> Jim

Jim, I’m glad to see you picked up those Model 12s.  I was watching Stevie’s 
CocoFest livestream and could not believe Model 12s showed up at the auction!  
I was thinking what a good deal you got!  Wish I was there.

I have a Model II/16 disk service I offer for free if you’re interested.  

http://pski.net/trs-80-model-ii-archive-project/ 


You can find the MC68000 board set (you’ll need a CPU board and at least one 
memory board) on eBay quite often.  In most cases, it will be the Model 16 6Mhz 
board which will allow you to run TRS-XENIX 1.x.  If you’re lucky, you’ll find 
the Model 6000 8Mhz board which will allow you to run Xenix 3.2.  Finding a 
card cage is the hard part.  These are extremely rare but do pop up from time 
to time.  There is another option called the Hans-02 and 03 adapters created by 
Hans Rietveld which is a modern replacement for the card cage.  You can find 
them on Ian Mavric’s site.

http://ianmav.customer.netspace.net.au/Hans/ 


I’m happy to hear you’re thinking about bringing a working example of one of 
these to Tandy Assembly.  The 8” Tandy’s are an important part of computing 
history that sometimes don’t get the respect they deserve.  For those of you 
that may not have heard about it, TA is happening in October 2017.

http://www.tandyassembly.com/ 

Re: Bitsavers size

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 23 April 2017 at 16:53, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk
 wrote:
> Or a single LTO3 cartridge, with room to spare ;-)

So what we need to do is calculate the bandwidth of a truck full of
LTO-3 tapes hurtling down a highway, surely?


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: Genuine KM11 board

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:35:13AM +0100, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
>  Are any DEC enthusiasts here jealous of this :
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_duell/33427116663/in/dateposted-public/
> 

A little bit. I like your key fob, although it must be quite 
uncomfortable in a pocket :) Perhaps the only place I'd favour a knuckle 
buster grant card over a full length one.

/P

Genuine KM11 board

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

 Are any DEC enthusiasts here jealous of this :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_duell/33427116663/in/dateposted-public/

-tony

Re: Looking for TRS-80 Model parts (and/or someone in the Phoenix, AZ area)

[Ed via cctalk]

very good radioengr  give Jim a  hand  with it 
 
It is going to take a pretty big  box to  ship it  for  Jim.. I  am trying 
to remember how  big the  think is  I  have not seen ours in eons.
 
We have some large boxes  we have saved but will have to see what it  would 
take to get at them.
 
The one thing I would recommend is  some sort of internal support  against 
crushing.. almost an inner  reinforcing  frame that would  prevent  collapse 
of the box and thus shattering the plastic.
 
Used to  run into  stuff like this  when shipping  hp  2624 terminals  etc.
 
Then the  other way is one huge ass box and  that  injectable  foam  stuff 
in  2 molded sections... with  some  wood stakes that keep top  from 
crushing.
 
Ed# 
 
 
 
In a message dated 4/23/2017 11:25:43 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

I'm in  the Phoenix area - Peoria specifically. Let me know if I an help.

On  4/23/2017 8:14 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:

> Found a seller of a  model 12 with these items, but local pickup
>  only.