Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Pontus Pihlgren]

I think you want a Minec 1000. but it's a very rare beast. It 
talks 3270 and VT100.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/zachetus/535850501/

/P

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 02:54:41PM +1300, Mike Ross wrote:
> For reasons too abstruse to explain in detail I'm on the lookout for
> terminals that are, physically, really small - especially serial and
> coax 3270, and possibly twinax 5250.
> 
> Yes you could do things with small laptops and PDAs with PCMCIA cards
> and adapters and software - I know a guy who kept a Psion Organizer
> configured especially for use as a terminal with SGI boxes. But that's
> Not The Same, and NOT what I'm after; I want dedicated purpose-built
> terminals; switch it on and It Works.
> 
> And both DEC and IBM made 'real' terminals in a 'small pizza box' form
> factor, using a separate standard VGA monitor as a display; one could
> use those with a small LCD screen and achieve a similar result, and I
> might do just that - can anyone remember the model numbers of IBM 3270
> and 5250 terminals that were built this way?
> 
> But really I'd prefer a compact all-in one solution; a one-piece
> terminal. Any suggestions? I'm open to both LCDs and *small* CRTs.
> Preferably colour!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike

RE: Oddball question: really small terminals

[tony duell]

> 
> For reasons too abstruse to explain in detail I'm on the lookout for
> terminals that are, physically, really small - especially serial and
> coax 3270, and possibly twinax 5250.
>
> Yes you could do things with small laptops and PDAs with PCMCIA cards
> and adapters and software - I know a guy who kept a Psion Organizer
> configured especially for use as a terminal with SGI boxes. But that's
> Not The Same, and NOT what I'm after; I want dedicated purpose-built
> terminals; switch it on and It Works.

Three things that I use for small async RS232 terminals

1) (The one I use all the time). HP palmtops. I actually prefer the 95LX as the 
40
column display is easier to read in poor light when working on a rack. But the
100LX and 200LX are good too. Yes, it is a computer, but it has a built-in 
serial
port (just need a cable) and terminal software in ROM. The good points are that 
it will capture the downloaded data and you can kermit it to another machine if
you so wish. The standard cable is wired to plug directly into a PC and is thus 
a 
DCE, but I got a second cable, cut off the moulded D connector and wired it to 
a DB25 plug as a DTE.

2) One of my RS232 testers has a terminal mode on a 32*4 LCD. Just a dumb 
terminal, though, but it will do odd baud rates and 5-bit ITA2 (incorrectly
called Baudot) which can be useful

3) You will not find one, but Trend Data Systems did a version of the Opal
telex terminal that was a very good VT100 clone (even down to the 
setup mode). A clamshell design with a fold-down LCD and a full-size keyboard.
Runs off 12V (I am missing the original PSU for mine) and the power connector
(A variant of the UK telephone plug) is almost as hard to find as the machine.

-tony

RE: Couplers for Sun DB13W3<->VGA DE15 adapter

[tony duell]

> I'm wondering what I can put between the two to keep the cable from
> disconnecting from the adapter. Some searches seem to indicate I want
> some 4x40 (or 4-40) female-female (coupling) nuts; does this seem
> correct?

The normal thread for the jackscrews on a D connector is indeed 4-40 UNC.
That's 'UNified Coarse', diameter size 4 with 40 threads per inch.

If you have the male screws in the connector then what you need are some
coupling nuts, threaded spacers, or whatever the suppplier calls them with
that thread. Some PC-builder shops sell them. I've been known to take a bit
of hexagonal rod and drill/tap it, but unless you have the tools for that it is
easier to buy them.

-tony

Re: The Internet & our hobby

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-10-24 19:53, Fred Cisin wrote:

   > Well, it is not correct when we then include that it is 43 years
old...
   > Internets using TCP/IP is a bit over 30 years old, but not over 40.


On Sat, 24 Oct 2015, Noel Chiappa wrote:

Good point! {Does a little math in his head...} 43 years, that gives
us 1972.
The OP was clearly thinking of the ARPANET. Which as I have mentioned,
was
_very_ different from TCP/IP, inside.


OR, he made a simple trivial typo or calculation typo, and meant 33,
instead of 43.  That would place us in 1982, which is about right for
TCP/IP.


But then pretty much wrong as to when the Internet came about.

Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Re: Ping!

[Alexandre Souza]

   Seens the tcp route was misguided :)

   PS: Pong from Brazil! :D

---
Enviado do meu Apple IIGS (pq eu sou chique)
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
Meu blog: http://tabajara-labs.blogspot.com




- Original Message - 
From: "Oscar Vermeulen" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 7:24 PM
Subject: Ping!


Jorg,

I forgot to ask for your private email on VCFB, so I use this public 
channel.


Ah -- beg your pardon!


Can you sell me a PiDP8, so I can port my Blinkenlight Api Server to the
platform of the upcoming 11/70?


Absolutely not.
That would be ethically impossible.
I can, however, offer you a free PiDP if you can take care of the shipping 
cost :)



I'd like to have it as preassembled as possible, 'cause my schedule is 
very tight.


I'll send you the comfy kit, meaning no fussing with the switch bar!

Shipping cost is CHF 24/EUR21, just paypal to oscar.vermeu...@hotmail.com 
and I'll send it to you.


But - before you do, consider that I'm currently working on a new version of 
the PiDP with (hopefully) nice replica 8/I switches. So if you're not too 
much in a hurry, you may want to wait two months and get the cosmetic 
upgrade!



BTW, my photos of VCFB are here:

... you remember me shooting into your face while the street car rumbled
behind your back?

Cool! Thanks for the pictures link :)

Kind regards,

Oscar.

  = 

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Glen Slick]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
>
> This is along the right lines, although it's a TCP/IP network device
> without serial or 3270 ports for direct connection, and it doesn't
> have a screen:
>
> http://www.axel.com/uk/id_M75.html
>

I have a couple of AX3000 M75. I'm pretty sure you can connect
directly to a host through the RJ45 serial ports. It's been a while
since I've used them and I forget the details of the setup /
configuration screens.

I also have a similar ESPRIT 350C
http://www.sourceforterminals.com/newpdf/350C.pdf

These were reasonably cheap when I picked them up on eBay a while ago.

RE: Commodore and Atari

[Kevin Parker]

Where are you located


++
Kevin Parker

++

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Cindy
Croxton
Sent: Saturday, 24 October 2015 11:48 AM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'

Subject: Commodore and Atari

Is anyone interested in a Vic 20, Atari 800XL, or an Amiga? The Amiga
appears to be missing a couple of things.  No AC adapters for any of them.
Complete key caps, no severe yellowing, no way to test. The Amiga resembles
this one: http://www.oldcomputers.net/pics/amiga500.jpg 

 

Cindy



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Ping!

[Oscar Vermeulen]

Jorg,

>> I forgot to ask for your private email on VCFB, so I use this public channel.

Ah -- beg your pardon!

>>Can you sell me a PiDP8, so I can port my Blinkenlight Api Server to the 
>> platform of the upcoming 11/70?

Absolutely not. 
That would be ethically impossible.
I can, however, offer you a free PiDP if you can take care of the shipping cost 
:)


>> I'd like to have it as preassembled as possible, 'cause my schedule is very 
>> tight.

I'll send you the comfy kit, meaning no fussing with the switch bar!

Shipping cost is CHF 24/EUR21, just paypal to oscar.vermeu...@hotmail.com and 
I'll send it to you.

But - before you do, consider that I'm currently working on a new version of 
the PiDP with (hopefully) nice replica 8/I switches. So if you're not too much 
in a hurry, you may want to wait two months and get the cosmetic upgrade!

>> BTW, my photos of VCFB are here:
... you remember me shooting into your face while the street car rumbled 
behind your back?

Cool! Thanks for the pictures link :)

Kind regards,

Oscar.

  

RE: Commodore and Atari

[Cindy Croxton]

Texas

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kevin
Parker
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 8:19 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: Commodore and Atari

Where are you located


++
Kevin Parker

++

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Cindy
Croxton
Sent: Saturday, 24 October 2015 11:48 AM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'

Subject: Commodore and Atari

Is anyone interested in a Vic 20, Atari 800XL, or an Amiga? The Amiga
appears to be missing a couple of things.  No AC adapters for any of them.
Complete key caps, no severe yellowing, no way to test. The Amiga resembles
this one: http://www.oldcomputers.net/pics/amiga500.jpg 

 

Cindy



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: tool for installing pin in PCB extractors?

[Mike Stein]

- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck Guzis" 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic 
Posts" 

Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: tool for installing pin in PCB 
extractors?




On 10/24/2015 09:49 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
What tool does one use to install the metal pin 
into a plastic PCB
extractor, e.g., the Bivar CP-36 or Keystone 
8642?


There are expensive tools for the purpose, but 
I've always just used a pair of long-nose pliers 
to compress the end of the spring pin slightly 
to get it started, then drive it home with a 
soft-faced mallet.  Make sure that the body of 
the extractor is supported.


To remove, an appropriately-sized roll pin punch 
works just fine without mangling things.


YMMV,
--Chuck


A small vise always works for me.

m 

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Jason T]

On Oct 24, 2015 8:54 PM, "Mike Ross"  wrote:

> But really I'd prefer a compact all-in one solution; a one-piece
> terminal. Any suggestions? I'm open to both LCDs and *small* CRTs.
> Preferably colour!
>

First thing that comes to mind are the Informer terminals.  They had them
in small CRT versions and the more rare orange plasma display with the
folding lid.  The plasma one that I have seen was a 3270 emulation,
complete with the PF keys.  I know it had serial...not sure about coax.  I
believe I have seen the CRT ones with coax options.  Both monochrome
displays.

J

RE: PROMs and EPROMs, specifically 2332/2532/2732

[tony duell]

> Further digging into available eproms that the programmer can read reveals
> it CAN read 2532s, specifically the MCM2532 which the datasheet tells me has
> the same pinout as the 2332. I still get "reverse insertion error" so I'm
> guessing my PROMs are toast.

As others have said, normally when putting a smaller chip into a programmer
with a bigger socket you keep the 'bottom row' of pins -- including ground --
in the same position for all chips. A look at the pinouts will show why. But as 
you can read 2716s that's not the problem.

Often 'reverse insertion error' means the chip drew the wrong supply current --
often far too much. Which does suggest your ROMs  are dead :-(

-tony

Re: Couplers for Sun DB13W3<->VGA DE15 adapter

[Joseph Lang]

4-40 is the correct size. I would remove the jack screws on one side and 
replace with sockets. If you use standoffs the screws May bottom out too soon.

Joe
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:47 PM, Eric Christopherson  
> wrote:
> 
> I have a Sun machine with a 13W3 framebuffer output, which is connected
> via a Monoprice VGA adapter to my LCD monitor. It works great, but the
> ends of the standoff bolts without nuts come together where the VGA
> cable meets the adapter; that is to say, the VGA cable's nuts are on the
> far side of the shell from its male end, and the adapter's nuts are on
> the far side of the shell from its female end.
> 
> I'm wondering what I can put between the two to keep the cable from
> disconnecting from the adapter. Some searches seem to indicate I want
> some 4x40 (or 4-40) female-female (coupling) nuts; does this seem
> correct?
> 
> -- 
>Eric Christopherson

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Steven Hirsch]

On Sat, 24 Oct 2015, Fred Cisin wrote:

Are we really running short of "720K" floppies? I thought that AOHell 
had sent out enough snail spam with disks to supply us forever!


Indeed, but the quality of those diskettes was dreadful.

--

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Joseph Lang]

This list seems to me to be populated with "build your own" types, so make your 
own degausser. 
Decades ago I repaired the tape eraser at the TV station I worked at. Once I 
saw how it was built I built my own. Take a transformer (something about 100 
watt or more) pull the laminations out (the hard part) line up all the 'E's put 
them back. Discard the 'I's. 
It will buzz like mad and get hot in a minute but produce a very strong AC 
magnetic field. 
Keep it away from your shadow mask color TV!

Joe

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:01 AM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> 
> On 10/24/2015 09:06 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> 
> 
>> Fascinating -- I didn't know there were AC and DC magnetic fields.
>> How strong is "very strong", and would the library device I mentioned
>> count toward "an AC erase"? Should I assume that just doing an AC
>> erase would be insufficient?
> 
> The AC unit I use is a VHS tape bulk eraser.  It's pretty strong and has a 
> limited working time--maybe 2-3 minutes before the thermal cutout interrupts. 
>  Let it cool for a few minutes and get back to work.
> 
> How strong a DC erase?  I suppose that one of these magnets could well lift a 
> 100 lbs.  Scary strong.
> 
> --Chuck
> 

Re: Common Maxtor MFM drive failure mode -- any ideas?

[Kyle Owen]

On Oct 24, 2015 6:36 PM, "Josh Dersch"  wrote:
>
>
> To add insult to injury, one of the heads is loose (the glue holding it
on dried up and it fell off after the impact of running off the platter) so
this drive is basically toast.  At least now I can kind of see how one
takes this drive apart to remove the spindle; if I get overly ambitious and
find a working sacrificial XT2190 to start with I could almost see myself
doing a spindle replacement surgery to see if I can recover the data.
>

I've successfully glued heads back on and have cleaned platters of goo
before. I had a full height 40 MB CDC drive from a PC AT if I recall that
wouldn't start reliably, but once it was spinning, worked fine. I took it
apart in a clean room and had the same issue as you with heads falling off.
I reattached them with clear fingernail polish for fear that superglue
would leave nasty cyanoacrylate fumes everywhere.

The drive worked fine for several months after the repair and a low level
format. It suffered the same problem again and I opted not to fix it a
second time.

It took me a while to figure out an optimal way to put the head back
together. I ended up separating the heads with the big ends of zip ties
which happened to be just the right height. Once I got everything mounted
back in, I just pushed it over the platters, causing the zip tie pieces to
be pushed out, and the heads to fall back over the platters.

Ahh, found the album (which I think I've shared before):
http://imgur.com/a/LbfZb

Kyle

Re: PROMs and EPROMs, specifically 2332/2532/2732

[Adrian Graham]

On 25/10/2015 08:27, "tony duell"  wrote:

>> Further digging into available eproms that the programmer can read reveals
>> it CAN read 2532s, specifically the MCM2532 which the datasheet tells me has
>> the same pinout as the 2332. I still get "reverse insertion error" so I'm
>> guessing my PROMs are toast.
> 
> As others have said, normally when putting a smaller chip into a programmer
> with a bigger socket you keep the 'bottom row' of pins -- including ground --
> in the same position for all chips. A look at the pinouts will show why. But
> as 
> you can read 2716s that's not the problem.
> 
> Often 'reverse insertion error' means the chip drew the wrong supply current
> --
> often far too much. Which does suggest your ROMs  are dead :-(

Ah, OK, that makes sense. Bad ROMs and low-quality sockets are the chief
reasons for dying PETs so it doesn't surprise me. I've found some 2532s
pretty locally so hopefully they'll be with me on Tuesday and I can test
yesterday's soldering.

Wish there was a more local hobby/electronic shop here - I miss being in a
city but only for that reason :) Given that there are schematics for PET
testing boards like the PETVET I'd like to build my own. Nearest component
place is M*plins and they're not what they used to be.

Cheers!

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Mike Ross]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:36 PM, tony duell  wrote:
>>
>> For reasons too abstruse to explain in detail I'm on the lookout for
>> terminals that are, physically, really small - especially serial and
>> coax 3270, and possibly twinax 5250.
>>
>> Yes you could do things with small laptops and PDAs with PCMCIA cards
>> and adapters and software - I know a guy who kept a Psion Organizer
>> configured especially for use as a terminal with SGI boxes. But that's
>> Not The Same, and NOT what I'm after; I want dedicated purpose-built
>> terminals; switch it on and It Works.
>
> Three things that I use for small async RS232 terminals
>
> 1) (The one I use all the time). HP palmtops. I actually prefer the 95LX as 
> the 40
> column display is easier to read in poor light when working on a rack. But the
> 100LX and 200LX are good too. Yes, it is a computer, but it has a built-in 
> serial
> port (just need a cable) and terminal software in ROM. The good points are 
> that
> it will capture the downloaded data and you can kermit it to another machine 
> if
> you so wish. The standard cable is wired to plug directly into a PC and is 
> thus a
> DCE, but I got a second cable, cut off the moulded D connector and wired it to
> a DB25 plug as a DTE.

Oh those look pretty good; I love the terminal emulator in ROM;
doesn't even need an OS, switch it on and it works; that's one of the
things I'm after. Shame about the rather nasty looking monochrome LCD
though... I'm more interested in colour, especially for 3270 use, and
as a hardware ANSI serial console for Hercules...

Ahhh or I could make my own... useful gizmo here...
http://www.brielcomputers.com/wordpress/?cat=25


Keep the ideas coming folks! Thanks!

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

RE: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ross
> Sent: 25 October 2015 09:19
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: Oddball question: really small terminals
> 
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:36 PM, tony duell 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> For reasons too abstruse to explain in detail I'm on the lookout for
> >> terminals that are, physically, really small - especially serial and
> >> coax 3270, and possibly twinax 5250.
> >>
> >> Yes you could do things with small laptops and PDAs with PCMCIA cards

Having read you want Color I would see if you can get a NeoWare thin client 
with TN3270 support.
My only gripe is that I have not found a way to get one of my Nokia 3270 
keyboards to fully work with them.

Dave

RE: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Steven
> Hirsch
> Sent: 25 October 2015 13:08
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)
> 
> On Sat, 24 Oct 2015, Fred Cisin wrote:
> 
> > Are we really running short of "720K" floppies? I thought that AOHell
> > had sent out enough snail spam with disks to supply us forever!
> 
> Indeed, but the quality of those diskettes was dreadful.
> 
> --

Someone had boxes of these they were willing to sell recently and there was
no take up.
I would say they are being trashed because no one has space and have moved
to floppy emulators.

Dave

Speaking of switches... Altair?

[Mike Ross]

I started playing with something I haven't touched in ages; my Altair
8800. So far so good...

https://www.facebook.com/tmfdmike/videos/1020256179225/?l=8958556876818218770

One thing: I really need three or four new switches to replace bent or
broken ones: the lower ones with the large metal toggles for run/stop
examine/deposit etc.

Anyone got any or can suggest a source? Original preferred obviously,
precise replica OK. I almost never play with S-100 era equipment so
I'm pretty sketchy on Altairs!

Thanks

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: tool for installing pin in PCB extractors?

[Joseph Lang]

I use slip joint pliers. Just push the pin through. It's harder getting them 
out;-)

Joe

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:49 AM, Eric Smith  wrote:
> 
> What tool does one use to install the metal pin into a plastic PCB
> extractor, e.g., the Bivar CP-36 or Keystone 8642?
> 
> I don't yet have any uninstalled extractors on hand, but I'm going to
> need some for a project. Looking at PCBs with extractors already
> installed has not made it obvious to me how to install them.

Re: PROMs and EPROMs, specifically 2332/2532/2732

[Adrian Graham]

On 25/10/2015 02:19, "Mike Stein"  wrote:

> Probably a silly question, but I assume that if
> you're using a 28-pin socket you are inserting it
> aligned at the end *opposite* pin 1, with pin
> numbers offset by 2 (ie. 2x32 pin1 is 2764/256 pin
> 3, etc.)?
> 

Hi Mike,

Yes :) 

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: HP2100 top card connectors

[Glen Slick]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 7:35 PM, William Donzelli  wrote:
> On the HP 2100 series machines (and possibly 1000s?) - those top of
> the card connectors - are they the 2 x 24 contact on 0.156" centers
> types?
>
> --
> Will

I have a couple of EDAC 305-048-500-202 connectors which I believe are
compatible.

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/123/44_305-315-35520series20new-194266.pdf

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Eric Christopherson]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Eric Christopherson <
echristopher...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015, Joseph Lang wrote:
> > This list seems to me to be populated with "build your own" types, so
> make your own degausser.
> > Decades ago I repaired the tape eraser at the TV station I worked at.
> Once I saw how it was built I built my own. Take a transformer (something
> about 100 watt or more) pull the laminations out (the hard part) line up
> all the 'E's put them back. Discard the 'I's.
> > It will buzz like mad and get hot in a minute but produce a very strong
> AC magnetic field.
> > Keep it away from your shadow mask color TV!
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > > On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:01 AM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> > >
> > > On 10/24/2015 09:06 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Fascinating -- I didn't know there were AC and DC magnetic fields.
> > >> How strong is "very strong", and would the library device I mentioned
> > >> count toward "an AC erase"? Should I assume that just doing an AC
> > >> erase would be insufficient?
>
> I guess my last question (would doing just an AC erase, by whatever
> means, always be insufficient) got lost.
>
> > >
> > > The AC unit I use is a VHS tape bulk eraser.  It's pretty strong and
> has a limited working time--maybe 2-3 minutes before the thermal cutout
> interrupts.  Let it cool for a few minutes and get back to work.
> > >
> > > How strong a DC erase?  I suppose that one of these magnets could well
> lift a 100 lbs.  Scary strong.
> > >
> > > --Chuck
> > >
>
> --
> Eric Christopherson
>

Also, do I always need to cover one hole on a 3.5" HD disk when using it in
an HD-capable drive? Or does the disk or the OS notice it's been formatted
as DD and then treat it accordingly?

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: NeXT Cube - powers on briefly then off again

[Ian Finder]

I should make clear that for what I'm saying below, I was NOT testing supplies 
on their own, but was indeed testing a complete cube with the logic and hard 
drives hooked up- just with no MegaPixel display attached.

And the point stands- Without a reasonable dummy load for the display itself, 
some cubes wouldn't stay on.

This was about 12 years ago and I was in middle school so I didn't take notes 
like I do now. Ergo I don't recall more specifics. 

Just that I used two sizable ceramic resistors that hung off the display 
connector to mitigate this behavior.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 17:42, Ian Finder  wrote:
> 
> No- if it works with the standard display, the supply is fine.
> 
> Now that that's clear, I recall some cube supplies would do this without a 
> load for a display- I used to test them by triggering the power-on pin, and 
> seem to remember this behavior occurring if I didn't have a big-ass resistor 
> attached across the pins that normally supplied power to the CRT.
> 
> Try getting a dummy load on there, the circuitry you have may not be putting 
> enough load on the lines that usually run the CRT to keep the supply in a 
> steady state.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Ian
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 16:37, Toby Thain  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2015-10-25 7:21 PM, Ian Finder wrote:
>>> I would replace the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply before 
>>> going further.
>> 
>> Well, the problem disappears with the standard setup. You still think caps 
>> could be at issue with the splitter setup? What's your detailed thinking?
>> 
>> --Toby
>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Oct 25, 2015, at 15:38, Toby Thain  wrote:
> 
> On 2015-10-25 5:28 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> After a few years I wanted to try my Cube with the soundbox/VGA splitter
> configuration for the first time. (I have the fading phosphor N4000A so
> have been keen to have an alternate video solution.)
> 
> However, all is not well. Using the keyboard power button, the machine
> powers on for a couple of seconds, just long enough to see a NeXT logo
> and grey desktop on the VGA (yay!) but then powers itself off again.
 
 
 I did the obvious thing and tested it with a standard monitor and cable 
 and everything is okay. So the problem must exist with the 
 splitter/soundbox setup. Soft power signals?
 
 Any suggestions welcome.
 
 --Toby
 
> Any clues?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> --Toby
> (not having a good classic computing week)
>> 

Re: Retro Reproduction 2

[rod]

Hello Noel
 Yes  Console and if my memory serves me well (which it usually 
doesn't) programmers console.

Who's doing the PDP-8 switches?

Rod


On 25/10/15 22:33, Noel Chiappa wrote:

 > From: Rod Smallwood

 > Just refresh my memory. C+K are the what I would call PDP8 type?

No, the C+K are the lever toggle switches, as used in the -11/05/40/45/70.
Only the /20 uses the slide switches like the -8.

 > In an attempt to get ahead of the requests I have been trawling the web
 > for pictures of anything DEC that has a front panel.

Well, if you're ready for more, I'll start sending you the info for the
UNIBUS disk controller indicator panels (RF11, RK11-C, RP11-C), then! :-)

 > It would seem you are Mr Switches and I am Panel Man. !!

You're definitely panels; I'm probably only going to do the toggle switches
(if the ones I've found are the right ones). I think someone else has the
slide switches under control?


BTW, the terminology for the various display parts is a bit confusing, so let
me lay out what I gather to be the official DEC terminology.

For the "indicator panels" - which is the term for the complete assembly (for
the RF11, RK11-C and RP11-C), the flat sheet of plastic with all the light
captions silk-screened onto it on it seems to be the "inlay" (q.v. RF11
controller engineering drawings, pg. 187 of the PDF). The "bezel" is the thin
white rim that goes around the 'inlay'. The formal name for the light shield
(the piece of fibre-board with all the holes drilled in it) is 'Benelex'
(Benelex is "general use, word fibre board"). Alas, it's no longer available,
so any new light shields will have to use something else.

For the PDP-11 front consoles, BTW, the terms are "bezel", "console panel"
(the piece that is called the 'inlay' on the indicator panels), and "console
PC board" (all this per the 11/45, /50, /55 System Maintainence Manual,
EK-11045-MM-007, pp. 131-132 of the PDF).

Noel

Re: Retro Reproduction 2

[rod]

Hi Noel
   That sounds good. Just refresh my memory. C+K are the what I 
would call PDP8 type?
I think the PDP-8 type are a basic slide switch with a U shaped bracket 
to hold the pivot pins on the lever.

One type is is a biased type and the other just a change over.

So far everything is based on a 465mm x 210mm (18.25" x 8.25") perspex 
(plexiglass) blank.


In an attempt to get ahead of the requests I have been trawling the web 
for pictures of anything  DEC  that has a front panel.


It would seem you are Mr Switches and I am Panel Man. !!

Regards

Rod

On 25/10/15 15:59, Noel Chiappa wrote:

 > From: Rod Smallwood

 > I'm in the drawing stage for 11/45 11/55 11/70 (common blank size)

I think the 11/40 uses that same blank, too (with less holes than the other
ones, as it doesn't have the two rotary switches); dunno about the location of
the power switch, someone who has an 11/40 will have to send you measurements.

 > given a scan and measurements .. I can have a go at most types of panel.

The ones I personally would like (after the 11/45 :-) are the indicator panels
for the RF11, RK11-C and RP11. Guy will be using the RF11 panels too, not sure
if he has started on producing them yet.

 > Now we need a ... switches source

Let me see if the C+K ones I have ordered fit. If so, if I buy a large group
directly from C+K, we might be able to get the price down to something
reasonable, which would save us the hassle of two different kinds of
toggles/actuators (one for the original panels, one for reproductions).

Noel

Re: Quantum Link (Q-Link)

[ethan]

Perhaps it's out of the (very nice) web page's scope, but I don't see a
mention of the modern-day partial recreation of QuantumLink that some
Commodore enthusiasts use today.
   Eric Christopherson


There is a television show running on television now called "Halt and 
catch fire" and I think they are basing it around Quantum Link as part of 
the story. It's not historical but a period drama or something.



--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: NeXT Cube - powers on briefly then off again

[Ian Finder]

No- if it works with the standard display, the supply is fine.

Now that that's clear, I recall some cube supplies would do this without a load 
for a display- I used to test them by triggering the power-on pin, and seem to 
remember this behavior occurring if I didn't have a big-ass resistor attached 
across the pins that normally supplied power to the CRT.

Try getting a dummy load on there, the circuitry you have may not be putting 
enough load on the lines that usually run the CRT to keep the supply in a 
steady state.

Cheers,

- Ian

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 16:37, Toby Thain  wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-10-25 7:21 PM, Ian Finder wrote:
>> I would replace the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply before going 
>> further.
> 
> Well, the problem disappears with the standard setup. You still think caps 
> could be at issue with the splitter setup? What's your detailed thinking?
> 
> --Toby
> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Oct 25, 2015, at 15:38, Toby Thain  wrote:
 
 On 2015-10-25 5:28 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
 Hi,
 
 After a few years I wanted to try my Cube with the soundbox/VGA splitter
 configuration for the first time. (I have the fading phosphor N4000A so
 have been keen to have an alternate video solution.)
 
 However, all is not well. Using the keyboard power button, the machine
 powers on for a couple of seconds, just long enough to see a NeXT logo
 and grey desktop on the VGA (yay!) but then powers itself off again.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I did the obvious thing and tested it with a standard monitor and cable and 
>>> everything is okay. So the problem must exist with the splitter/soundbox 
>>> setup. Soft power signals?
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions welcome.
>>> 
>>> --Toby
>>> 
 Any clues?
 
 Thanks in advance
 
 --Toby
 (not having a good classic computing week)
> 

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Mike Ross]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 3:19 AM, tony duell  wrote:
> [HP Palmtops, 95LX etc]
>> Oh those look pretty good; I love the terminal emulator in ROM;
>> doesn't even need an OS, switch it on and it works; that's one of the
>> things I'm after. Shame about the rather nasty looking monochrome LCD
>
> Actually, there is an OS -- MS-DOS -- and it's in ROM too. Along with a text
> editor, address book thingy, HP financial calculator (19B-II a-like, it does 
> have a
> 4 level stack RPN mode) and Lotus 1-2-3. I've never needed to use an 
> application
> other than the ones in ROM on these machines.
>
> The terminal emulator has a VT100 mode (which seems to work reasonably
> well). And plain text, Xmodem and kermit file transfers. I've used it to 
> download
> a file from one machine, then carry the palmtop to a different room and upload
> said file to a different machine if it would be impractical to run a cable.
>
> It is certainly a machine worth considering even if it doesn't meet all your
> requirements at the moment...
>
> -tony

Well I had forgotten I had pretty much what I was looking for in the
Corestore collection already!

http://www.corestore.org/terms.jpg

Two terminals the size of small pizza boxes using external VGA
displays. On top, an IBM 3483 coax 3270 terminal, on the bottom a DEC
VT525 serial terminal.

Now all I need is to find VGA LCD displays about the size of those
boxes - say 10" or 12" diagonal, suggestions??? - and maybe a few more
terminals - and we're pretty much in business!

I still love my VT52s and VT100s and 3278s, but I have space
considerations too for some of these applications! :-)

Thanks!

Mike

Re: NeXT Cube - powers on briefly then off again

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-10-25 5:28 PM, Toby Thain wrote:

Hi,

After a few years I wanted to try my Cube with the soundbox/VGA splitter
configuration for the first time. (I have the fading phosphor N4000A so
have been keen to have an alternate video solution.)

However, all is not well. Using the keyboard power button, the machine
powers on for a couple of seconds, just long enough to see a NeXT logo
and grey desktop on the VGA (yay!) but then powers itself off again.




I did the obvious thing and tested it with a standard monitor and cable 
and everything is okay. So the problem must exist with the 
splitter/soundbox setup. Soft power signals?


Any suggestions welcome.

--Toby


Any clues?

Thanks in advance

--Toby
(not having a good classic computing week)

Re: NeXT Cube - powers on briefly then off again

[Ian Finder]

I would replace the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply before going 
further.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 15:38, Toby Thain  wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-10-25 5:28 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> After a few years I wanted to try my Cube with the soundbox/VGA splitter
>> configuration for the first time. (I have the fading phosphor N4000A so
>> have been keen to have an alternate video solution.)
>> 
>> However, all is not well. Using the keyboard power button, the machine
>> powers on for a couple of seconds, just long enough to see a NeXT logo
>> and grey desktop on the VGA (yay!) but then powers itself off again.
> 
> 
> I did the obvious thing and tested it with a standard monitor and cable and 
> everything is okay. So the problem must exist with the splitter/soundbox 
> setup. Soft power signals?
> 
> Any suggestions welcome.
> 
> --Toby
> 
>> Any clues?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance
>> 
>> --Toby
>> (not having a good classic computing week)
> 

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Fred Cisin]

"physically really small" means different things to different people. It


45 years ago, a "mini-computer" was considered to be "really small".  So 
small that they gave it a special name to refer to how tiny it was.



Sony tried to call their Vaio "ultra-portable",
which was rather laughable when held up next to an OQO.

Re: NeXT Cube - powers on briefly then off again

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-10-25 8:56 PM, Toby Thain wrote:

On 2015-10-25 8:42 PM, Ian Finder wrote:

No- if it works with the standard display, the supply is fine.

Now that that's clear, I recall some cube supplies would do this
without a load for a display- I used to test them by triggering the
power-on pin, and seem to remember this behavior occurring if I didn't
have a big-ass resistor attached across the pins that normally
supplied power to the CRT.

Try getting a dummy load on there, the circuitry you have may not be
putting enough load on the lines that usually run the CRT to keep the
supply in a steady state.




Even though I'm an electronics noob, that seems pretty logical. Can you
spell out what kind of resistor I'd need?

Is it the 20 Ohm 20W between pin 12 (-12V) and GND that is mentioned here:

http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1374=80e5f0626eeb6a10eed066e21b61808d


Is 20W the right rating?

Thanks!
--Toby



I got a really helpful response from Rob Blessin, from whom I bought the 
splitter cable, along the same lines. My supply must be the 152 type 
that requires a load.


Boiling down all the info so far, it seems that a 20 Ohm resistor across 
-12V and GND (maybe 12V and GND would work equally well?) would 
dissipate 7.2W, which seems enough to keep the supply running (that 
other link talked about a 5W load, so this seems a good margin).


Now, 7.2W is more than one resistor in say a DB-19 shell could safely 
dissipate, so I'm maybe looking at some kind of ambiently cooled board. 
Rob provided these links:



  Here: http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3736 and
  version 1.0 megaload here: 
http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3616=load+board 




So I'm wondering what kind of thermal design is both easy and safe. A 
single 10W resistor exposed to the air? Or should I spread it over a few 
resistors on a little board that might have a DB-19 male at the Cube end.


Just noob brainstorming here.

--Toby

Re: Quantum Link (Q-Link)

[Tony Pflum]

Originally I thought it was basing it on Comnet or Compuserve but after
reading these comments, I now think Quantum Link makes more sense.  They
are doing a good job portraying the various personalities, especially the
disfunctional ones.
On Oct 25, 2015 7:38 PM, "Fred Cisin"  wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, et...@757.org wrote:
>
>> There is a television show running on television now called "Halt and
>> catch fire" and I think they are basing it around Quantum Link as part of
>> the story. It's not historical but a period drama or something.
>>
>
> and Compaq?
>
> I liked the part about IBM suing them for disassembly of the BIOS!
> and the hardware approach to how to read the content of the BIOS.
> (on a functioning machine with DEBUG.COM)
> Admittedly, it was more than a month after the announcement of the 5150
> before I could buy a copy of the Technical Reference Manual, which had
> source code of the BIOS.
>
>
> You can learn a lot about the details of history from it.
>
>

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Glen Slick]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Mike Ross  wrote:
>
> Well I had forgotten I had pretty much what I was looking for in the
> Corestore collection already!
>
> http://www.corestore.org/terms.jpg
>
> Two terminals the size of small pizza boxes using external VGA
> displays. On top, an IBM 3483 coax 3270 terminal, on the bottom a DEC
> VT525 serial terminal.
>
> Now all I need is to find VGA LCD displays about the size of those
> boxes - say 10" or 12" diagonal, suggestions??? - and maybe a few more
> terminals - and we're pretty much in business!

One issue with the VT525 is that you might have to experiment with a
few different LCD monitors to find one that produces an acceptable
display, especially if you want to use 132 column mode.

The last time I tried this with the LCD monitors I happened to have on
hand a ViewSonic VP2000s, a Samsung 931B, and a Dell 1704FPTT all
produced unacceptable results while an older ViewSonic VP150 did
reasonably well.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?41674

Re: HP2100 top card connectors

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On 10/25/2015 7:35 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

On the HP 2100 series machines (and possibly 1000s?) - those top of
the card connectors - are they the 2 x 24 contact on 0.156" centers
types?

--
Will

Most of them are. The first two boards have a pair of finer pitched 
connectors.
The memory jumpers are also 2x24, but annoyingly, they use two different 
ones

with slightly different board to board spacing.

Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Chuck Guzis]

On 10/25/2015 09:19 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:


Also, do I always need to cover one hole on a 3.5" HD disk when using
it in an HD-capable drive? Or does the disk or the OS notice it's
been formatted as DD and then treat it accordingly?


In *most* applications, the extra hole in the HD floppy changes the 
operating parameters of the drive itself. (There are exceptions, notably 
on some IBM systems of the PS/2 variety).


Of course, on a DD-only drive, the drive is blind to the extra hole. 
One of the things you have to keep on eye peeled for when handling a 
bunch of 3.5" floppies--to read the disk on an HD drive, you need to 
cover the hole.


--Chuck

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Mike Ross]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:29 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> On 10/24/2015 08:54 PM, Mike Ross wrote:
>>
>> For reasons too abstruse to explain in detail I'm on the lookout for
>> terminals that are, physically, really small - especially serial and
>> coax 3270, and possibly twinax 5250.
>>
>>
> I had a thing that was apparently used in France and maybe Canada for
> telephone directory lookup and similar uses.  I believe it was called a
> Minitel.  It had a TINY CRT screen, maybe 5 x 7".  It used a standard 40-pin
> microprocessor and other standard parts.  I junked mine because it would
> randomly reset every minute or so, and I didn't really have a use for it.  I
> think mine was smaller than the one in the Wikipedia article, but it did
> look similar to that. There are some on eBay, but they are all from France
> and Belgium. Interface was pure serial RS-232.

A pull-out keyboard in the base? I have one too. Would be perfect if
it worked, and I had half a dozen of them!

Mike

Re: PROMs and EPROMs, specifically 2332/2532/2732

[Adrian Graham]

On 25/10/2015 17:19, "John Robertson"  wrote:

>> Hi John and others,
>> 
>> Thanks for that. I removed the diodes and wired 2332 (21) to 2372 (24)
>> leaving the A11 swap in place, the programmer complained about pin 18
>> missing. The adapter in front of me is now wired like this:
>> 
>> 2332 (18) to 2372 (21)
>> 2332 (20) 2x diodes to 2372 18 (band) and 20 (band)
>> 2332 (20) 2k2 resistor to 2332 (24)
>> 2332 (21) to 2372 (24)
>> 
>> Now I get "reverse insertion" hinting I've wired something upside-down which
>> isn't the case. I can read 27256 and 2764's no problem so I'm mounting
>> things the correct way.
>> 
>> Further digging into available eproms that the programmer can read reveals
>> it CAN read 2532s, specifically the MCM2532 which the datasheet tells me has
>> the same pinout as the 2332. I still get "reverse insertion error" so I'm
>> guessing my PROMs are toast.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
> 
> Reverse insertion may just mean you are drawing more current on the /OE
> and /CS than expected.
> 
> How about this - go back to my original suggestion (no diodes) and this
> time add a small resistor to the 2732 pin 18 and Vcc to act as a load.
> Try larger resistors if the reader still complains - and try reading
> with NO 2332 in the reader (all FFs). Once you can trick the reader into
> reading air as highs then try your 2332 again with the working resistor
> values for the unused select.
> 
> Oh, and what reader are you using? Did you check with the manufacturer
> (or archives somewhere - archive.org?) to see if they have a trick for
> reading 2532/2332s?

It's an MQP Pinmaster48, a 90s-era programmer. As it happens tonight I got
round to dumping some other EPROMs I had for someone else and one of them
was an SGS2532 which read fine as an MCM2532 so I know the machine works
with that age of chip. All my CBM ones give the same results so I'm assuming
they're dead. Thinking about it there may be some 2532s at work so I can try
burning a PET tester.

I saw the madrigaldesign adapter on Friday but after re-re-remaking the one
I was working on yesterday it was beginning to look a bit rough around the
edges :)

Cheers,

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: Quantum Link (Q-Link)

[Fred Cisin]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, et...@757.org wrote:
There is a television show running on television now called "Halt and catch 
fire" and I think they are basing it around Quantum Link as part of the 
story. It's not historical but a period drama or something.


and Compaq?

I liked the part about IBM suing them for disassembly of the BIOS!
and the hardware approach to how to read the content of the BIOS.
(on a functioning machine with DEBUG.COM)
Admittedly, it was more than a month after the announcement of the 5150 
before I could buy a copy of the Technical Reference Manual, which had 
source code of the BIOS.



You can learn a lot about the details of history from it.

Re: NeXT Cube - powers on briefly then off again

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-10-25 7:21 PM, Ian Finder wrote:

I would replace the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply before going 
further.



Well, the problem disappears with the standard setup. You still think 
caps could be at issue with the splitter setup? What's your detailed 
thinking?


--Toby


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 25, 2015, at 15:38, Toby Thain  wrote:


On 2015-10-25 5:28 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
Hi,

After a few years I wanted to try my Cube with the soundbox/VGA splitter
configuration for the first time. (I have the fading phosphor N4000A so
have been keen to have an alternate video solution.)

However, all is not well. Using the keyboard power button, the machine
powers on for a couple of seconds, just long enough to see a NeXT logo
and grey desktop on the VGA (yay!) but then powers itself off again.



I did the obvious thing and tested it with a standard monitor and cable and 
everything is okay. So the problem must exist with the splitter/soundbox setup. 
Soft power signals?

Any suggestions welcome.

--Toby


Any clues?

Thanks in advance

--Toby
(not having a good classic computing week)

Re: NeXT Cube - powers on briefly then off again

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-10-25 8:42 PM, Ian Finder wrote:

No- if it works with the standard display, the supply is fine.

Now that that's clear, I recall some cube supplies would do this without a load 
for a display- I used to test them by triggering the power-on pin, and seem to 
remember this behavior occurring if I didn't have a big-ass resistor attached 
across the pins that normally supplied power to the CRT.

Try getting a dummy load on there, the circuitry you have may not be putting 
enough load on the lines that usually run the CRT to keep the supply in a 
steady state.




Even though I'm an electronics noob, that seems pretty logical. Can you 
spell out what kind of resistor I'd need?


Is it the 20 Ohm 20W between pin 12 (-12V) and GND that is mentioned here:

http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1374=80e5f0626eeb6a10eed066e21b61808d

Is 20W the right rating?

Thanks!
--Toby


Cheers,

- Ian

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 25, 2015, at 16:37, Toby Thain  wrote:


On 2015-10-25 7:21 PM, Ian Finder wrote:
I would replace the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply before going 
further.


Well, the problem disappears with the standard setup. You still think caps 
could be at issue with the splitter setup? What's your detailed thinking?

--Toby


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 25, 2015, at 15:38, Toby Thain  wrote:

On 2015-10-25 5:28 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
Hi,

After a few years I wanted to try my Cube with the soundbox/VGA splitter
configuration for the first time. (I have the fading phosphor N4000A so
have been keen to have an alternate video solution.)

However, all is not well. Using the keyboard power button, the machine
powers on for a couple of seconds, just long enough to see a NeXT logo
and grey desktop on the VGA (yay!) but then powers itself off again.



I did the obvious thing and tested it with a standard monitor and cable and 
everything is okay. So the problem must exist with the splitter/soundbox setup. 
Soft power signals?

Any suggestions welcome.

--Toby


Any clues?

Thanks in advance

--Toby
(not having a good classic computing week)

Re: Couplers for Sun DB13W3<->VGA DE15 adapter

[Eric Christopherson]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Joseph Lang 
wrote:

> 4-40 is the correct size. I would remove the jack screws on one side and
> replace with sockets. If you use standoffs the screws May bottom out too
> soon.
>

Could you explain that in more detail? I'm not aware of "sockets" except as
the tools that are used for turning hex nuts; is there a kind of socket
that actually gets installed on a bolt?

And I'm not sure what you mean about bottoming out. You just mean there
wouldn't be enough length of thread to fit both male ends securely?


>
> Joe
> > On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:47 PM, Eric Christopherson <
> echristopher...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have a Sun machine with a 13W3 framebuffer output, which is connected
> > via a Monoprice VGA adapter to my LCD monitor. It works great, but the
> > ends of the standoff bolts without nuts come together where the VGA
> > cable meets the adapter; that is to say, the VGA cable's nuts are on the
> > far side of the shell from its male end, and the adapter's nuts are on
> > the far side of the shell from its female end.
> >
> > I'm wondering what I can put between the two to keep the cable from
> > disconnecting from the adapter. Some searches seem to indicate I want
> > some 4x40 (or 4-40) female-female (coupling) nuts; does this seem
> > correct?
> >
> > --
> >Eric Christopherson
>



-- 
Eric Christopherson

NeXT Cube - powers on briefly then off again

[Toby Thain]

Hi,

After a few years I wanted to try my Cube with the soundbox/VGA splitter 
configuration for the first time. (I have the fading phosphor N4000A so 
have been keen to have an alternate video solution.)


However, all is not well. Using the keyboard power button, the machine 
powers on for a couple of seconds, just long enough to see a NeXT logo 
and grey desktop on the VGA (yay!) but then powers itself off again.


Any clues?

Thanks in advance

--Toby
(not having a good classic computing week)

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[william degnan]

On Oct 25, 2015 8:54 PM, "Jon Elson"  wrote:
>
> On 10/25/2015 05:27 PM, Mike Ross wrote:
>>
>>
>> A pull-out keyboard in the base? I have one too. Would be perfect if
>> it worked, and I had half a dozen of them!
>>
>>
> No, mine did NOT have a pull-out or fold-down kbd, it was all one piece,
like a micro-miniaturized ADM3 or similar terminal.  Possibly it WAS the
same as the picture on the Wikipedia article, I couldn't tell the scale
from that pic.
>
> Jon

Something like the iXO handheld terminal?

http://vintagecomputer.net/iXO/iXO_telecomputing-system.jpg

Bill

Re: PROMs and EPROMs, specifically 2332/2532/2732

[John Robertson]

On 10/24/2015 5:56 PM, Adrian Graham wrote:



On 24/10/2015 19:18, "John Robertson"  wrote:


On 10/24/2015 5:43 AM, Adrian Graham wrote:

Hi folks,

PET4032 repair continues with all ROMs, video RAM and dodgy sockets removed
thanks to a hot air gun. Holes cleaned and I have new turned pin sockets for
everything I've removed which I'll be fitting this afternoon.

Since the ROMs came out OK I'm trying to dump them using my Pinmaster48
programmer, being from the 90s it doesn't read 2332/2532 PROMs but it WILL
read a lot of variants of 2732 so I've made an adapter as found thanks to
google and USENET:

2332 pin 18 to 2732 pin 21 (A11)
2332 pin 20 to 2732 pin 18 (Chip enable/Power Down)
2332 pin 21 to 2732 pins 20 and 24 via diodes with banding at the 2332 end
(2332 Vpp)

Wiring checks out and the diodes are aligned correctly so pins 20 and 24
don't interfere with each other, however the pinmaster continually gives me
"continuity error on pin 20"

Have I goofed somewhere?

Cheers,


You just tie pin 21 of the 2332 to Vcc (+5) - Pin 24 of the 2732 - to read.

There are only two modifications needed normally for reading a 2532/2332
in a 2732 socket.

2332

Pin 21 - Vcc (2732 Pin 24)
Pin 18 - A11 (2732 Pin 21)

If your reader coughs up a /OE error then use diodes:

2332

Pin 20 - 2 Diodes, one to 2732 pin 20, the other to 2732 pin 18. Banded
end to these pins, and you will also need a pullup resistor on the
2532/2332 socket pin 20 so /CE (2332/2532) goes high when not selected.
2K2 would do fine. Anything from your junk box between 1K and 4K7 should
work though.

I don't think you will need the diodes though.

John :-#)#

Hi John and others,

Thanks for that. I removed the diodes and wired 2332 (21) to 2372 (24)
leaving the A11 swap in place, the programmer complained about pin 18
missing. The adapter in front of me is now wired like this:

2332 (18) to 2372 (21)
2332 (20) 2x diodes to 2372 18 (band) and 20 (band)
2332 (20) 2k2 resistor to 2332 (24)
2332 (21) to 2372 (24)

Now I get "reverse insertion" hinting I've wired something upside-down which
isn't the case. I can read 27256 and 2764's no problem so I'm mounting
things the correct way.

Further digging into available eproms that the programmer can read reveals
it CAN read 2532s, specifically the MCM2532 which the datasheet tells me has
the same pinout as the 2332. I still get "reverse insertion error" so I'm
guessing my PROMs are toast.

Cheers,



Reverse insertion may just mean you are drawing more current on the /OE 
and /CS than expected.


How about this - go back to my original suggestion (no diodes) and this 
time add a small resistor to the 2732 pin 18 and Vcc to act as a load. 
Try larger resistors if the reader still complains - and try reading 
with NO 2332 in the reader (all FFs). Once you can trick the reader into 
reading air as highs then try your 2332 again with the working resistor 
values for the unused select.


Oh, and what reader are you using? Did you check with the manufacturer 
(or archives somewhere - archive.org?) to see if they have a trick for 
reading 2532/2332s?


John :-#)#

--
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
 www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"

Re: PROMs and EPROMs, specifically 2332/2532/2732

[John Robertson]

On 10/24/2015 5:56 PM, Adrian Graham wrote:



On 24/10/2015 19:18, "John Robertson"  wrote:


On 10/24/2015 5:43 AM, Adrian Graham wrote:

Hi folks,

PET4032 repair continues with all ROMs, video RAM and dodgy sockets removed
thanks to a hot air gun. Holes cleaned and I have new turned pin sockets for
everything I've removed which I'll be fitting this afternoon.

Since the ROMs came out OK I'm trying to dump them using my Pinmaster48
programmer, being from the 90s it doesn't read 2332/2532 PROMs but it WILL
read a lot of variants of 2732 so I've made an adapter as found thanks to
google and USENET:

2332 pin 18 to 2732 pin 21 (A11)
2332 pin 20 to 2732 pin 18 (Chip enable/Power Down)
2332 pin 21 to 2732 pins 20 and 24 via diodes with banding at the 2332 end
(2332 Vpp)

Wiring checks out and the diodes are aligned correctly so pins 20 and 24
don't interfere with each other, however the pinmaster continually gives me
"continuity error on pin 20"

Have I goofed somewhere?

Cheers,


You just tie pin 21 of the 2332 to Vcc (+5) - Pin 24 of the 2732 - to read.

There are only two modifications needed normally for reading a 2532/2332
in a 2732 socket.

2332

Pin 21 - Vcc (2732 Pin 24)
Pin 18 - A11 (2732 Pin 21)

If your reader coughs up a /OE error then use diodes:

2332

Pin 20 - 2 Diodes, one to 2732 pin 20, the other to 2732 pin 18. Banded
end to these pins, and you will also need a pullup resistor on the
2532/2332 socket pin 20 so /CE (2332/2532) goes high when not selected.
2K2 would do fine. Anything from your junk box between 1K and 4K7 should
work though.

I don't think you will need the diodes though.

John :-#)#

Hi John and others,

Thanks for that. I removed the diodes and wired 2332 (21) to 2372 (24)
leaving the A11 swap in place, the programmer complained about pin 18
missing. The adapter in front of me is now wired like this:

2332 (18) to 2372 (21)
2332 (20) 2x diodes to 2372 18 (band) and 20 (band)
2332 (20) 2k2 resistor to 2332 (24)
2332 (21) to 2372 (24)

Now I get "reverse insertion" hinting I've wired something upside-down which
isn't the case. I can read 27256 and 2764's no problem so I'm mounting
things the correct way.

Further digging into available eproms that the programmer can read reveals
it CAN read 2532s, specifically the MCM2532 which the datasheet tells me has
the same pinout as the 2332. I still get "reverse insertion error" so I'm
guessing my PROMs are toast.

Cheers,


Oh, and here is what someone did in 2011 to read 2332s:

http://www.madrigaldesign.it/forum/viewtopic.php?t=104

John ;-#)#

Re: AOL (Was: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D

[COURYHOUSE]

AOL was a good  model  for general consumers.  also  remembermany 
people  used  AOL before the  www  was all the  rage so... you stay  with 
something you have alreay  learned.and  AOL was  accessible anywhere in the 
world 
for the  most  part  whereas  podunk mom and pop   ISPs   had  local phone 
numbers. This was important if I was say  going  to  UK or  France   for more 
than a  few days  as   dialing back  to a podunk in phoenix would not only 
be   damn expensive but the quality of connection  thru  the long  distance   
would no  doubt be horrible...  
 
Aside from  our  AOL account  we  had a podunk   that  had  two brothers 
that seemed as stupid as Daryl and his other  brother Daryl in the Bob Newhart 
show that ran it. Eccch!
 
The  game changer   for  local residents though was the  cable  companies 
and telecoms offering  Internet service... same   bill as  their telephone or 
 cable  tv  easy  to sign  up... and  remember at  first   the   hi  speed  
 connects  were  though  the telco  for us  and we had  AOL but after I  
quit  travels  just had  a  minimal AOL account... why?   lots of  people I 
have  known  for  eons  can still contact me there.
 
Why do I still use it?  because my friends know to reach me  there.
 
Why will I always have an aol account  forever?  well until all  my friends 
 pass on or  I  pass on   it is a connection  medium!
 
 
Ed #
 
Uptime seemed to be  better on also than  some of the  podunks
 
 
In a message dated 10/25/2015 12:40:46 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,  
ci...@xenosoft.com writes:

[AOL]
On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, ben wrote:
> I suspect the  reason they failed was not service
> but a) PC's had games b) Ma Bell  wanted a arm and a leg
> for long distance connections.

Some of  their early efforts to COMPETE AGAINST the internet helped 
establish  outfits like Netcom, and were a boost to ISPs.


Perhaps Ed (still  using AOL) would have some insight into what caused 
their  decline.



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred   ci...@xenosoft.com

RE: Olivetti M24 Bus Converter Card

[Robert Jarratt]

Anyone have any ideas? If not I guess the UK card is cheap enough to take a
chance anyway.

 

Regards

 

Rob

 

From: Robert Jarratt [mailto:robert.jarr...@ntlworld.com] 
Sent: 24 October 2015 21:20
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts (cctalk@classiccmp.org)
Subject: Olivetti M24 Bus Converter Card

 

I have an M24 which does not have the bus converter card P1050). There are a
couple of these cards on ebay in the USA, which makes it expensive for me,
and I am not sure which of the two would be best anyway.

 

There is another bus converter available in the UK, but it is PC1076 (IF
622), which my web searches suggest make it for the M280 (which was a 286
machine).

 

Does anyone have any idea if this latter card might work in my M24? It
certainly looks to be physically compatible.

 

Regards

 

Rob

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Fred Cisin]

On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, Eric Christopherson wrote:

Actually, in many areas of the US, they had local dialup numbers that
connected to their service through Tymnet and/or Telenet, so long
distance didn't apply. Maybe in rural areas those access points were
still long distance, though. But AOL itself had per-minute premium rates
for quite a while.


3 years ago, when I stayed at my mother's house taking care of her, it 
took me a month to find out that she did not have unlimited local calling!

Adding DSL on the phone account reduced the phone bill a lot.

That house is now mine.  AT DSL here sucks.

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Chuck Guzis]

On 10/25/2015 01:07 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:


Actually, in many areas of the US, they had local dialup numbers
that connected to their service through Tymnet and/or Telenet, so
long distance didn't apply. Maybe in rural areas those access points
were still long distance, though. But AOL itself had per-minute
premium rates for quite a while.


You speak as if dial-up access to the 'Net no longer exists:

http://help.netzero.net/nzhelp/support-home-page/service-help/internet-access/dialup/about-dialup/

Maybe NZ has discontinued it, but I've always kept a list of the numbers 
in case of emergency.


--Chuck

Re: Common Maxtor MFM drive failure mode -- any ideas?

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 14:22, Al Kossow  wrote:
> 
> On 10/24/15 11:40 AM, tony duell wrote:
> 
>> Most likely those ICs are head switch/preamp devices and the servo head
>> preamplifier. They are very likely to be custom.
>> 
> 
> Silicon Systems was a common supplier in the 80s to mid-90s, which is why 
> their
> Storage Products data books have been scanned.


Just thought I'd mention that my first "real" job was at Silicon Systems. 
Started as an applications engineer for motor drivers, then moved into chip 
design for interface controllers. I don't think I have any old databooks any 
more. Glad to hear that they're being preserved.


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Chuck Guzis]

On 10/25/2015 01:36 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:


3 years ago, when I stayed at my mother's house taking care of her,
it took me a month to find out that she did not have unlimited local
calling! Adding DSL on the phone account reduced the phone bill a
lot.

That house is now mine.  AT DSL here sucks.


I'm finally (after years of 1.5M DSL service) going to get some decent 
speeds--or so I'm told.  When the Qwest wanted to expand service in my 
neighborhood, they asked to purchase a bit of my land (I didn't even 
know it was mine) for a "temple of boxes".  I said okay, as long as DSL 
would be offered.  Qwest was a good as their word--this was in 2004. 
Before that, it was POTS.


All of the sudden, late last spring, contractor trucks showed up and 
started stringing fiber and 200 pair copper on the poles here (current 
service is buried, not on poles).  They've spent much of the summer, 
stringing cable and punching wires at the terminal.  I've been told that 
I'll be receiving 20Mbps service and a new modem by the 11th of next 
month.  My monthly fees won't change.


So why is CenturyLink doing this?  Is it a matter of improving service?

From the techs working at the temple, it turns out that it's nothing 
like that.  It seems that all that buried cable is slowly migrating down 
the hillside to the extent that it's going to need replacement.  That's 
miles of copper--and probably not cheap (I got to see what an 1800 pair 
cable looks like).


So fiber feeds the temple and the 200 pair copper is for folks down the 
road (about 2.5 miles).


So maybe, if the weather be good, I'll be getting some worthwhile DSL 
service before Thanksgiving.  That would be nice.


--Chuck

RE: Oddball question: really small terminals

[tony duell]

[HP Palmtops, 95LX etc]
> Oh those look pretty good; I love the terminal emulator in ROM;
> doesn't even need an OS, switch it on and it works; that's one of the
> things I'm after. Shame about the rather nasty looking monochrome LCD

Actually, there is an OS -- MS-DOS -- and it's in ROM too. Along with a text
editor, address book thingy, HP financial calculator (19B-II a-like, it does 
have a
4 level stack RPN mode) and Lotus 1-2-3. I've never needed to use an application
other than the ones in ROM on these machines.

The terminal emulator has a VT100 mode (which seems to work reasonably
well). And plain text, Xmodem and kermit file transfers. I've used it to 
download
a file from one machine, then carry the palmtop to a different room and upload
said file to a different machine if it would be impractical to run a cable. 

It is certainly a machine worth considering even if it doesn't meet all your 
requirements at the moment...

-tony

Fw: new message

[katelists]

Hey!

 

New message, please read 

 

kateli...@trouts.org

Re: Retro Reproduction 2

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Rod Smallwood

> I'm in the drawing stage for 11/45 11/55 11/70 (common blank size)

I think the 11/40 uses that same blank, too (with less holes than the other
ones, as it doesn't have the two rotary switches); dunno about the location of
the power switch, someone who has an 11/40 will have to send you measurements.

> given a scan and measurements .. I can have a go at most types of panel.

The ones I personally would like (after the 11/45 :-) are the indicator panels
for the RF11, RK11-C and RP11. Guy will be using the RF11 panels too, not sure
if he has started on producing them yet.

> Now we need a ... switches source 

Let me see if the C+K ones I have ordered fit. If so, if I buy a large group
directly from C+K, we might be able to get the price down to something
reasonable, which would save us the hassle of two different kinds of
toggles/actuators (one for the original panels, one for reproductions).

Noel

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Mike Ross]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 3:19 AM, tony duell  wrote:
> [HP Palmtops, 95LX etc]
>> Oh those look pretty good; I love the terminal emulator in ROM;
>> doesn't even need an OS, switch it on and it works; that's one of the
>> things I'm after. Shame about the rather nasty looking monochrome LCD
>
> Actually, there is an OS -- MS-DOS -- and it's in ROM too. Along with a text
> editor, address book thingy, HP financial calculator (19B-II a-like, it does 
> have a
> 4 level stack RPN mode) and Lotus 1-2-3. I've never needed to use an 
> application
> other than the ones in ROM on these machines.
>
> The terminal emulator has a VT100 mode (which seems to work reasonably
> well). And plain text, Xmodem and kermit file transfers. I've used it to 
> download
> a file from one machine, then carry the palmtop to a different room and upload
> said file to a different machine if it would be impractical to run a cable.
>
> It is certainly a machine worth considering even if it doesn't meet all your
> requirements at the moment...
>
> -tony

These are the best bet I've seen for serial terminals so far:

http://www.brielcomputers.com/wordpress/?cat=25

Just stick one to the back of a small LCD screen and I'm in business.

But on closer inspection the site shows "out of stock". I'll email;
maybe they'll do another batch. Or does anyone know someone who has
stock?

And I'm still left with the need for something for 3270...

Useful thread though; all kinds of interesting things coming out of
the woodwork :-)

Mike

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Jon Elson]

On 10/24/2015 08:54 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

For reasons too abstruse to explain in detail I'm on the lookout for
terminals that are, physically, really small - especially serial and
coax 3270, and possibly twinax 5250.


I had a thing that was apparently used in France and maybe 
Canada for telephone directory lookup and similar uses.  I 
believe it was called a Minitel.  It had a TINY CRT screen, 
maybe 5 x 7".  It used a standard 40-pin microprocessor and 
other standard parts.  I junked mine because it would 
randomly reset every minute or so, and I didn't really have 
a use for it.  I think mine was smaller than the one in the 
Wikipedia article, but it did look similar to that. There 
are some on eBay, but they are all from France and Belgium. 
Interface was pure serial RS-232.


Jon

Fw: new message

[katelists]

Hey!

 

New message, please read 

 

kateli...@trouts.org

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[COURYHOUSE]

I wonder if - http://www.brielcomputers.com/wordpress/?cat=25
can be hacked to  do Baudot at 60 wpm?
Ed#
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/25/2015 7:29:19 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
tmfdm...@gmail.com writes:


These are the best bet I've seen for serial terminals so  far:

http://www.brielcomputers.com/wordpress/?cat=25

Just stick  one to the back of a small LCD screen and I'm in business.

But on  closer inspection the site shows "out of stock". I'll email;
maybe they'll  do another batch. Or does anyone know someone who has
stock?

And I'm  still left with the need for something for 3270...

Useful thread  though; all kinds of interesting things coming out of
the woodwork  :-)

Mike

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[ben]

On 10/25/2015 7:07 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote:

On Sat, 24 Oct 2015, Fred Cisin wrote:


Are we really running short of "720K" floppies? I thought that AOHell
had sent out enough snail spam with disks to supply us forever!


Indeed, but the quality of those diskettes was dreadful.


More the Service provided from the disk.?

Re: Oddball question: really small terminals

[Fred Cisin]

> > For reasons too abstruse to explain in detail I'm on the lookout for
> > terminals that are, physically, really small - especially serial and
> > coax 3270, and possibly twinax 5250.

How small is "really small"? IBM made a terminal with a 5" screen for the 4704 
banking systems. http://frente-cajas.blogspot.com/


On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, Mike Ross wrote:

5" might be a bit small even for me! The 9" version looks pretty close
to that kind of thing I have in mind except:


5" was not the smallest, and there were several, even luggable, machines 
that used it  (earliest Osborn, Otrona, Elcompco, etc.)



Small computers running DOS aren't what I had in mind,


Can you explain what your objection is?
In what qualitative or quantitative way is a DOS computer running terminal 
software fundamentally different from a terminal that did not also have 
general purpose capabilities?  A DOS machine can be setup to run the 
program on startup - in the case of HP95, Poqet, and portfolio, the
memory cards gave you close to the same speed to boot and run the 
software as a dedicated machine.



neither are  single line displays :-)


OK.
BUT, it would have helped if you were to say what you are doing and what 
you WANT, instead of just rejecting systems that are not what you want.

We'd waste less of your time.

"physically really small" means different things to different people. 
It could mean that a pocket computer is the upper limit (I have used a 
CCTV viewfinder as a monitor),  or it could mean that you want ADM3A 
(iMac prototype?) V IBM 3270 terminals.

What does "really small" mean to YOU?



My *ideal* device would be something like a 10" or 12" LCD panel with
terminal logic built-in: power connector, 3270 or serial port, and a
PS/2 or USB keyboard port. A terminal you can hang on the wall. Cable
it up, hang it on the wall, away you go... if I can find something
along those lines I'll take a dozen :)


OK, that's much closer to a description!
Howzbout: Connectbot running on an Android tablet?
Do you want the keyboard to remain attached?   (unfold a Sony Vaio, or any 
small laptop)


Or only use the keyboard for setup and maintenance/reconfiguration?
(back to tablet)
What are your keyboard requirements?  IBM "M", Palm thumbpad, "virtual 
keyboard" with touchscreen?


Your desire for COLOR throws a serious crimp in many/most dedicated 
terminals, and points more towards "thin client" or dedicating a general 
purpose machine.

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Eric Christopherson]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015, Joseph Lang wrote:
> This list seems to me to be populated with "build your own" types, so make 
> your own degausser. 
> Decades ago I repaired the tape eraser at the TV station I worked at. Once I 
> saw how it was built I built my own. Take a transformer (something about 100 
> watt or more) pull the laminations out (the hard part) line up all the 'E's 
> put them back. Discard the 'I's. 
> It will buzz like mad and get hot in a minute but produce a very strong AC 
> magnetic field. 
> Keep it away from your shadow mask color TV!
> 
> Joe
> 
> > On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:01 AM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> > 
> > On 10/24/2015 09:06 PM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> Fascinating -- I didn't know there were AC and DC magnetic fields.
> >> How strong is "very strong", and would the library device I mentioned
> >> count toward "an AC erase"? Should I assume that just doing an AC
> >> erase would be insufficient?

I guess my last question (would doing just an AC erase, by whatever
means, always be insufficient) got lost.

> > 
> > The AC unit I use is a VHS tape bulk eraser.  It's pretty strong and has a 
> > limited working time--maybe 2-3 minutes before the thermal cutout 
> > interrupts.  Let it cool for a few minutes and get back to work.
> > 
> > How strong a DC erase?  I suppose that one of these magnets could well lift 
> > a 100 lbs.  Scary strong.
> > 
> > --Chuck
> > 

-- 
Eric Christopherson

How to revive my E450

[Toby Thain]

Hi,

I have an Sun E450 with 4 cpus installed that ran fine for a few years 
as a Solaris 10 box with ZFS boot. About 4 years ago I mothballed it and 
pulled the two boot drives out to store (ZFS was in a mirror configuration).


This weekend I decided to see if it would come up again.

Predictably, the NVRAM is dead. "The IDPROM contents are invalid"
And it's forgotten its mfg-options. (I found info by Googling that this 
should be set to 49 for E450.) I'll have to do something about that.


More surprising to me than the NVRAM failure though was that it produces 
the same result when I try to boot from either drive:



  ok boot disk
  Boot device: /pci@1f,4000/scsi@3/disk@0,0  File and args:
  Bad magic number in disk label
  Can't open disk label package

  Can't open boot device


It seems unlikely to me that both disks have died. Does anyone have any 
other ideas? Could it be related to the NVRAM failure?


Here's what I haven't tried yet:
- I haven't checked disk jumpers
- I haven't tried to mount the disks and check them on another machine. 
This could be a bit of work, but I can get around to it.


It's a long time since I set up this Solaris/ZFS install. Maybe I've 
forgotten some quirk of booting ZFS on old SPARC. Any suggestions welcome.


(also posted to Sun Rescue list)

--Toby

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Fred Cisin]

Are we really running short of "720K" floppies? I thought that AOHell
had sent out enough snail spam with disks to supply us forever!

Indeed, but the quality of those diskettes was dreadful.


On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, ben wrote:

More the Service provided from the disk.?


Blaming the medium for the content?
Or, . . .
if you were putting something like that onto disks,
would you spring the money for high quality ones?

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[ben]

On 10/25/2015 1:03 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:



Blaming the medium for the content?
Or, . . .
if you were putting something like that onto disks,
would you spring the money for high quality ones?


I suspect the reason they failed was not service
but a) PC's had games b) Ma Bell wanted a arm and a leg
for long distance connections.
Ben.

AOL (Was: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D

[Fred Cisin]

[AOL]
On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, ben wrote:

I suspect the reason they failed was not service
but a) PC's had games b) Ma Bell wanted a arm and a leg
for long distance connections.


Some of their early efforts to COMPETE AGAINST the internet helped 
establish outfits like Netcom, and were a boost to ISPs.



Perhaps Ed (still using AOL) would have some insight into what caused 
their decline.




--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Quantum Link (Q-Link)

[Jay West]

I received the email below, thought I'd pass it on...
-
Dear J West,

I am writing to inform you about an article I have created about Quantum
Link, an online service that was available in the US & Canada from 1985 to
1994.

https://www.tinytickle.co.uk/quantum-link/

Quantum Link, originally available on the Commodore 64 computer, offered and
pioneered many of the features we are used to having on the modern internet,
such as e-mail, instant messagaing, shopping and chat rooms - to name a few.

Quantum Link also featured the ground breaking game Habitat by Lucasfilm's,
the first graphical massively multiplayer online game.
https://www.tinytickle.co.uk/quantum-link/#mmo

Q-Link was also made available on Apple & IBM compatible PCs from 1988.

I was wondering if you could add a link from your website (classiccmp.org)
to the piece to help spread knowledge of the influential, but now largely
forgotten, Quantum Link service. The article has proven popular on social
media, and I thought that it would be of interest to your readers. Any
mention you could make on social media would also be fantastic.

Any corrections, feedback or comments you may have on the piece would be
greatly appreciated, either by email or via the comments form on the webpage
itself.

Thanks for your time.
Kind Regards
David Wilding

Re: Substituting DSHD for DSDD disks (or DS2D if you prefer)

[Eric Christopherson]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015, ben wrote:
> On 10/25/2015 1:03 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> 
> >
> >Blaming the medium for the content?
> >Or, . . .
> >if you were putting something like that onto disks,
> >would you spring the money for high quality ones?
> >
> I suspect the reason they failed was not service
> but a) PC's had games b) Ma Bell wanted a arm and a leg
> for long distance connections.
> Ben.

Actually, in many areas of the US, they had local dialup numbers that
connected to their service through Tymnet and/or Telenet, so long
distance didn't apply. Maybe in rural areas those access points were
still long distance, though. But AOL itself had per-minute premium rates
for quite a while.

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: Quantum Link (Q-Link)

[Eric Christopherson]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015, Jay West wrote:
> I received the email below, thought I'd pass it on...
> -
> Dear J West,
> 
> I am writing to inform you about an article I have created about Quantum
> Link, an online service that was available in the US & Canada from 1985 to
> 1994.
> 
> https://www.tinytickle.co.uk/quantum-link/
> 
> Quantum Link, originally available on the Commodore 64 computer, offered and
> pioneered many of the features we are used to having on the modern internet,
> such as e-mail, instant messagaing, shopping and chat rooms - to name a few.
> 
> Quantum Link also featured the ground breaking game Habitat by Lucasfilm's,
> the first graphical massively multiplayer online game.
> https://www.tinytickle.co.uk/quantum-link/#mmo
> 
> Q-Link was also made available on Apple & IBM compatible PCs from 1988.
> 
> I was wondering if you could add a link from your website (classiccmp.org)
> to the piece to help spread knowledge of the influential, but now largely
> forgotten, Quantum Link service. The article has proven popular on social
> media, and I thought that it would be of interest to your readers. Any
> mention you could make on social media would also be fantastic.
> 
> Any corrections, feedback or comments you may have on the piece would be
> greatly appreciated, either by email or via the comments form on the webpage
> itself.
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> Kind Regards
> David Wilding
> 
> 

Perhaps it's out of the (very nice) web page's scope, but I don't see a
mention of the modern-day partial recreation of QuantumLink that some
Commodore enthusiasts use today.

-- 
Eric Christopherson