RE: SWTPC 6800

[william degnan]

I don't believe anyone else has ever posted an SWTPC - specific monitor
script like I posted on my site designed for the specific purpose of
feeding monitor commands to load TSC BASIC via text file.  You just have to
follow my directions exactly.  Doing so will change swtpc monitor prompt to
a > prompt.  Essentially what my script does is load a papertape stripped
with only the raw data.  Try it.
B

On Aug 16, 2016 7:21 PM, "Brad H" 
wrote:
>
> Okay this is where I was getting a bit confused -- I had gotten the
impression that S1 records were essentially what was punched out on paper
tape and that on loading back in, the teletype/paper tape reader was simply
typing all this in as if someone was sitting there.  Looking at your TSC
Basic file I see it invokes the memory examine and change function with the
M and then starts at an address and just keeps going?
>
> So when you had a program saved to a tape, these would have been S1
records encoded in Kansas City format?
>
> Is there a large collection of these loader files somewhere?  Or like a
definitive list of major software developed for the 6800?
>
> I'm hoping to learn more on how to program these things -- I'm assuming
there was an assembler people used rather than just modifying memory
addresses?
>
> Thanks
>
> Brad
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william
degnan
> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:12 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800
>
> Brad,
>
> You don't type in S1 records at the monitor prompt.  If anything you'd
want to download a text file that simulates monitor commands to load
memory,  but it's a lot slower.
>
> I haven't been reading all of the posts in this thread, but have you
tried following something like the instructions here to download a tape, I
have documented how to use a terminal to download TSC BASIC into an SWTPC
using a laptop serial port (or USB to Serial):
>
> http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread_record.cfm?id=416=2
>
> b
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Brad H <
vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Brent.  So when I hit the end of an 'S' record line.. is it
> > just a Line Feed I need to go to the next?  Or just type the next S
> > record right in behind it?
> >
> > Also curious about how you type S records at the monitor prompt.  I'm
> > reading and trying to figure out how to do that.
> >
> > Many thanks!
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brent
> > Hilpert
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 9:29 AM
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800
> >
> > Yes, the monitor just sees bytes coming at it, it can't distinguish
> > whether they're typed or coming from a host/machine,  as long as the
> > byte sequence accords with the Motorola S record format.
> >
> > You can formulate your own S records and type them at the monitor, too.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2016-Aug-16, at 9:09 AM, Brad H wrote:
> >
> > > Another question if I may -- for a short TXT loader file.. could I
> > > manually enter the information contained therein with my terminal?
> > > I'm just thinking for a quick memory test, etc -- it'd be six of one
> > > half a dozen of the other in terms of time to hook up a PC terminal
> > > and
> > send the file..
> > >
> > > If I were to hit L to put the 6800 into load mode, could I then just
> > > type out the contents of the loader file with the CT1024's keyboard?
> >
> >
>

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net

Re: can anyone identify this terminal keyboard and pcb?

[Al Kossow]

On 8/15/16 9:52 AM, Brad H wrote:

> I've tried nailing down what terminal it came from looking at hundreds of 
> pictures but no dice.

More research today. I'm pretty sure it was a Telex message preparation 
terminal. They did have a 202
datacomm service.

Still no clue who might have made it.

He did have more than one keyboard, so I did buy one. After staring at the code 
in the eproms there
is a setup mode (probably shift/A) which looks like it lets you set a clock.

Another clue is the cent symbol above the 6

RE: SWTPC 6800

[Brad H]

Okay this is where I was getting a bit confused -- I had gotten the impression 
that S1 records were essentially what was punched out on paper tape and that on 
loading back in, the teletype/paper tape reader was simply typing all this in 
as if someone was sitting there.  Looking at your TSC Basic file I see it 
invokes the memory examine and change function with the M and then starts at an 
address and just keeps going?

So when you had a program saved to a tape, these would have been S1 records 
encoded in Kansas City format?

Is there a large collection of these loader files somewhere?  Or like a 
definitive list of major software developed for the 6800?

I'm hoping to learn more on how to program these things -- I'm assuming there 
was an assembler people used rather than just modifying memory addresses?

Thanks

Brad

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william degnan
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:12 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800

Brad,

You don't type in S1 records at the monitor prompt.  If anything you'd want to 
download a text file that simulates monitor commands to load memory,  but it's 
a lot slower.

I haven't been reading all of the posts in this thread, but have you tried 
following something like the instructions here to download a tape, I have 
documented how to use a terminal to download TSC BASIC into an SWTPC using a 
laptop serial port (or USB to Serial):

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread_record.cfm?id=416=2

b

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Brad H < vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net> 
wrote:

> Thanks Brent.  So when I hit the end of an 'S' record line.. is it 
> just a Line Feed I need to go to the next?  Or just type the next S 
> record right in behind it?
>
> Also curious about how you type S records at the monitor prompt.  I'm 
> reading and trying to figure out how to do that.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Brad
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brent 
> Hilpert
> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 9:29 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < 
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800
>
> Yes, the monitor just sees bytes coming at it, it can't distinguish 
> whether they're typed or coming from a host/machine,  as long as the 
> byte sequence accords with the Motorola S record format.
>
> You can formulate your own S records and type them at the monitor, too.
>
>
>
> On 2016-Aug-16, at 9:09 AM, Brad H wrote:
>
> > Another question if I may -- for a short TXT loader file.. could I 
> > manually enter the information contained therein with my terminal?
> > I'm just thinking for a quick memory test, etc -- it'd be six of one 
> > half a dozen of the other in terms of time to hook up a PC terminal 
> > and
> send the file..
> >
> > If I were to hit L to put the 6800 into load mode, could I then just 
> > type out the contents of the loader file with the CT1024's keyboard?
>
>

Re: Front Panel Update - PDP-8/i

[Adrian Stoness]

I would like to order one how do I do that?

On Aug 16, 2016 3:41 PM, "Rod Smallwood" 
wrote:

>
> Hi
>
>  Same price as before $150 + $20 shipping.
>
>  Shipments going out to-morrow.
>
>  Payment to my PayPal account  rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com
>
> Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>
>
>
> On 16/08/2016 20:56, Ian S. King wrote:
>
>> I tried to mail you off-list and got an error from your mail server.  I
>> would like to know your pricing - I have a rebadged 8/I that could use a
>> facelift.  Thanks.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Rod Smallwood <
>> rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Guys
>>>
>>> PDP-8/i panels are now shipping. If you are quick with
>>> your
>>> order we can ship to-morrow
>>>
>>> Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

RE: HP to acquire SGI

[Curious Marc]

> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chris

> That I did know.  I rode that horse down the mountain during the Rackable
> take over and I left in 2010.  Most everything relating to OS, BIOS, 
> networking
> and system management software  is done here in Eagan, MN and
> manufacturing is done in Chippewa Falls WI in two former Cray facilities.
> They still build two primary architecture types, a scale out cluster called 
> Altix
> ICE (which I worked on) and a scale up shared memory design called UV.  HP
> have been partnering with them on deals with this later product for some
> time, so there is strong belief that that is one piece that will be preserved.
> 
> --
> Chris Elmquist

And that last piece I thought was impressive one too.
Marc

Re: Front Panel Update - PDP-8/i

[Ian S. King]

I tried to mail you off-list and got an error from your mail server.  I
would like to know your pricing - I have a rebadged 8/I that could use a
facelift.  Thanks.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
>PDP-8/i panels are now shipping. If you are quick with your
> order we can ship to-morrow
>
> Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>
>
>


-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Front Panel Update - PDP-8/i

[Rod Smallwood]

Hi Guys

   PDP-8/i panels are now shipping. If you are quick with 
your order we can ship to-morrow


Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Chuck Guzis]

On 08/16/2016 06:53 AM, tony duell wrote:

> You can of course do it with older technology too. The PDP11/44 PSU
> and the HP9845 PSU spring to mind. A lot of ICs, chopper transistors,
> etc in there.

Sure, it's possible to use the veneered-and-generated LM723 as an
element of either a linear or switching regulator.  Part of the original
app notes for the thing, IIRC.

--Chuck

RE: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[tony duell]

> > Of course I was being ironic. The 'not joking' part refers to the
> > fact that it really is a switcher with a linear regulator.
> 
> Which is not uncommon in multi-output switchers.  Not at all unusual to
> see the main (e.g. 5V) output directly regulated, but secondary outputs
> handled by 78xx/79xx linear regulators.

Of course. But the PSU in that Zenith monitor only has one output -- 
+12V. And there is no regulation feedback loop to the chopper stage.

On multi-output switchers often the main out has a much higher power
limit than the others. Perhaps 5V at 60A and +/-12V at a couple of amps
In which case it is not unreasonable to use linear regulators for the latter,
the power wasted is not that much.

As an aside, there is at least one DEC printer (LA324 I think) where the main
output from the SMPSU is the 36V one (that is the one that is sensed to regulate
the chopper), used for the motors, printhead, etc. The 5V rail (used for 
the logic, of course) comes off a linear regulator. One to watch for...



> That's not to say that the secondary outputs can't be switch-regulated.
> The "simple switcher" ICs are well-suited to that application.

You can of course do it with older technology too. The PDP11/44 PSU and
the HP9845 PSU spring to mind. A lot of ICs, chopper transistors, etc in there.

-tony

Re: SWTPC 6800

[william degnan]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:12 PM, william degnan 
wrote:

> Brad,
>
> You don't type in S1 records at the monitor prompt.  If anything you'd
> want to download a text file that simulates monitor commands to load
> memory,  but it's a lot slower.
>
> I haven't been reading all of the posts in this thread, but have you tried
> following something like the instructions here to download a tape, I have
> documented how to use a terminal to download TSC BASIC into an SWTPC using
> a laptop serial port (or USB to Serial):
>
> http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread_record.cfm?id=416=2
>
> b
>
>
>>
NOTE - the method linked-to above describes how to download a script into
the SWTPc's ROM monitor that mimics the keystrokes that one would normally
have made manually type from a terminal.  Takes a few minutes, but it
works.  You can call it a headless bootstrap.

b

RE: SWTPC 6800

[Brad H]

Thanks Brent.  So when I hit the end of an 'S' record line.. is it just a
Line Feed I need to go to the next?  Or just type the next S record right in
behind it?

Also curious about how you type S records at the monitor prompt.  I'm
reading and trying to figure out how to do that.

Many thanks!

Brad

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brent
Hilpert
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 9:29 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800

Yes, the monitor just sees bytes coming at it, it can't distinguish whether
they're typed or coming from a host/machine,  as long as the byte sequence
accords with the Motorola S record format.

You can formulate your own S records and type them at the monitor, too.



On 2016-Aug-16, at 9:09 AM, Brad H wrote:

> Another question if I may -- for a short TXT loader file.. could I 
> manually enter the information contained therein with my terminal?  
> I'm just thinking for a quick memory test, etc -- it'd be six of one 
> half a dozen of the other in terms of time to hook up a PC terminal and
send the file..
> 
> If I were to hit L to put the 6800 into load mode, could I then just 
> type out the contents of the loader file with the CT1024's keyboard?

Re: SWTPC 6800

[Brent Hilpert]

Yes, the monitor just sees bytes coming at it, it can't distinguish whether 
they're typed or coming from a host/machine,
 as long as the byte sequence accords with the Motorola S record format.

You can formulate your own S records and type them at the monitor, too.



On 2016-Aug-16, at 9:09 AM, Brad H wrote:

> Another question if I may -- for a short TXT loader file.. could I manually
> enter the information contained therein with my terminal?  I'm just thinking
> for a quick memory test, etc -- it'd be six of one half a dozen of the other
> in terms of time to hook up a PC terminal and send the file.. 
> 
> If I were to hit L to put the 6800 into load mode, could I then just type
> out the contents of the loader file with the CT1024's keyboard?

RE: SWTPC 6800

[Brad H]

Another question if I may -- for a short TXT loader file.. could I manually
enter the information contained therein with my terminal?  I'm just thinking
for a quick memory test, etc -- it'd be six of one half a dozen of the other
in terms of time to hook up a PC terminal and send the file.. 

If I were to hit L to put the 6800 into load mode, could I then just type
out the contents of the loader file with the CT1024's keyboard?

Re: Spam [was Re: still looking for that stuff?]

[Mouse]

> Firstly, there are many types of unwanted e-mail, and using the term
> SPAM to cover them all is a dis-service.

Using the term SPAM to cover any of them is a disservice - to Hormel,
who has been relatively gracious about the use of "spam" for something
other than their product.

Of course, posting on a list like this is not something trademark law
generally applies to, so it us unlikely to lead to immediate legal
repurcussions.  But it is good to get into appropriate habits, and it
is good to try to cooperate with companies who are trying to cooperate
with us.

> The e-mail in question was not one of those, it was almost certainly
> sent by a criminal attempting to steal and re-sell some ones
> credentials.

It can still be spam.  It was unsolicited and it was email; the only
leg of the UBE tripod that's questionable is the "bulk" one, and I have
little doubt there.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: VAX file format conversion

[Mouse]

> $@hobbyist-use-only-va.txt
> %RMS-W-RTB 512 bye record to large for user buffer

The little grey cells holding this info are rather dusty, but they're
telling me that back when I used VMS (early '80s) CONVERT/FDL was the
appropriate tool to deal with issues like this.

It took some noodling around the HELP pages and some experiments, but I
eventually got the file I was dealing with converted.  You might want
to throw ANALYZE/FDL at the file first to see how it really is set up.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: DEC PDP bits and Programma 101 available

[aswood]

Erik,

I'd be interested in the vt05.

-- Andreas

> Am 15.08.2016 um 21:17 schrieb Erik W. :
> 
> Dear reader,
> 
> For a serious enthusiast or museum I have available:
> 
>  * Olivetti Programma 101 calculator
> 
>  * DEC GT40 grapic display terminal
>  * DEC VT05, first DEC terminal
>  * DEC PC04 paper tape reader/punch for PDP-8
>  * DEC TU60 DECassette dual tape drive with two tapes mounted
>  * DEC VR14 vector monitor; can be used directly with the VT11 below
>  * VT11 display processor backplane + boards + LK40 keyboard
>+ original 375 light pen.  Everything to turn any UNIBUS machine
>into a "GT40" Moonlander capable system.
>  * 21" BA11 box used to mount an 11/40 or 11/45 for example
>  * Lots of smaller DEC parts like filler panels; please ask
> 
> Located in the Netherlands; local pickup much preferred.  Would
> consider a trade for pre-1975 DEC bits or a simple cash deal.
> 
> Thanks, Erik
> 
> 

Re: HP to acquire SGI

[Chris Elmquist]

On August 16, 2016 12:32:32 AM CDT, "Mark J. Blair"  wrote:
>
>> On Aug 15, 2016, at 19:54, Chris Elmquist  wrote:
>> On August 15, 2016 3:08:10 PM CDT, Mark Linimon
> wrote:
>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:49:29PM -0700, Fred Cisin wrote:
 I still don't understand what his motivation is.
>>> 
>>> It could just be mental illness :-(
>>> 
>> 
>> I thought it was just autocorrect on Android.
>
>I thought his Markov chain needed oiling.
>
>But seriously, I didn't know that any pieces of SGI were still around
>to acquire.

That I did know.  I rode that horse down the mountain during the Rackable take 
over and I left in 2010.  Most everything relating to OS, BIOS, networking and 
system management software  is done here in Eagan, MN and manufacturing is done 
in Chippewa Falls WI in two former Cray facilities.  They still build two 
primary architecture types, a scale out cluster called Altix ICE (which I 
worked on) and a scale up shared memory design called UV.  HP have been 
partnering with them on deals with this later product for some time, so there 
is strong belief that that is one piece that will be preserved.

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: DEC PDP bits and Programma 101 available

[Mike Ross]

Erik

The Corestore would be interested in all of the DEC items below pretty
much! But will probably have to pick and choose.

Do you have a list of wanted items you might take in trade? Cash
possible as well or instead.

Cheers

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 7:17 AM, Erik W.  wrote:
> Dear reader,
>
> For a serious enthusiast or museum I have available:
>
>   * Olivetti Programma 101 calculator
>
>   * DEC GT40 grapic display terminal
>   * DEC VT05, first DEC terminal
>   * DEC PC04 paper tape reader/punch for PDP-8
>   * DEC TU60 DECassette dual tape drive with two tapes mounted
>   * DEC VR14 vector monitor; can be used directly with the VT11 below
>   * VT11 display processor backplane + boards + LK40 keyboard
> + original 375 light pen.  Everything to turn any UNIBUS machine
> into a "GT40" Moonlander capable system.
>   * 21" BA11 box used to mount an 11/40 or 11/45 for example
>   * Lots of smaller DEC parts like filler panels; please ask
>
> Located in the Netherlands; local pickup much preferred.  Would
> consider a trade for pre-1975 DEC bits or a simple cash deal.
>
> Thanks, Erik
>
>

Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[curiousmarc3]

Thanks. That's a very clean mod!
Marc

> On Aug 15, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:
> 
> 
> https://flic.kr/p/L8SNPJ
> 
> Done.
> 
> -Rik
> 
>> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
>> Van: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] Namens Curious Marc
>> Verzonden: zondag 14 augustus 2016 21:08
>> Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
>> Onderwerp: Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825
>> 
>> Would you pictures of it and where it sits in the machine by any chance?
>> Marc
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Aug 14, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Paul,
>>> 
>>> It is a small extra pcb( with hp logo). Both my machines are build in 
>>> Germany,
>> which is logic because I’m living in the Netherlands and aquired both in 
>> Europe.
>>> So it could be a local modification made by the Boeblingen factory or even 
>>> HP
>> Netherlands.
>>> I’m happy with it
>>> 
>>> -Rik
>>> 
>>> Van: Paul Berger
> 

RE: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[tony duell]

> > > > ...The common Zenith MDA monitor, ... The one that combines the 
> > > > efficiency
> > > >  of a linear with the reliability of a switcher.
> 
> > > Double take, resulting in coffee in nasal cavity ... ;-)

> > I am not joking.
> > -
> 
> Well, linears are noted more for their weight and caloric output than 
> efficiency
> while switchers seem to have sacrificed reliability for higher efficiency so I
> took it as a delightful bit of irony, like a car combining the safety of a 
> Pinto 
> with the graceful lines of an Edsel...

> Oh well, I got a chuckle out of it...

Of course I was being ironic. The 'not joking' part refers to the fact that
it really is a switcher with a linear regulator. 

The reverse (mains transformer feeding low-voltage switching regulators)
was relatively common (think of the older PDP11 PSUs, for example). These
are big and heavy (massive iron-core transformer) and not as efficient as
a mains switch-mode PSU, but are more efficient than a linear regulator 
(obviously) and seem quite reliable. 

-tony

Re: HP to acquire SGI

[alexmcwhirter]

On 2016-08-16 01:32, Mark J. Blair wrote:

But seriously, I didn't know that any pieces of SGI were still around
to acquire.


NUMALink, that's pretty much it in a nutshell

Re: 5150/5151 Video Card??

[Chuck Guzis]

On 08/15/2016 10:22 PM, tony duell wrote:

> Of course I was being ironic. The 'not joking' part refers to the 
> fact that it really is a switcher with a linear regulator.

Which is not uncommon in multi-output switchers.  Not at all unusual to
see the main (e.g. 5V) output directly regulated, but secondary outputs
handled by 78xx/79xx linear regulators.

That's not to say that the secondary outputs can't be switch-regulated.
The "simple switcher" ICs are well-suited to that application.


--Chuck