RE: Magnetic media FTGH!

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mouse
> Sent: 27 November 2016 00:25
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Magnetic media FTGH!
> 
> >> Back in October, I wrote that I had two boxes of magnetic media that
> >> were not worth - to me - the space they were taking up.
> 
> >> This drew a note from one Rob Jarratt, [...]
> 
> > That was me replying. I have the drives to read TK50 (a hazardous and
> > unreliable process these days), not sure about the others.  The
> > trouble is I am in the UK, I know you are reluctant to ship, and *I*
> > am reluctant to pay a lot for shipping across the pond.
> 
> Yes, that was what I thought the major barrier to just dropping them on
you
> was


Any idea of weight and dimensions?

Thanks

Rob

RE: Magnetic media FTGH!

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mouse
> Sent: 27 November 2016 00:25
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Magnetic media FTGH!
> 
> >> Back in October, I wrote that I had two boxes of magnetic media that
> >> were not worth - to me - the space they were taking up.
> 
> >> This drew a note from one Rob Jarratt, [...]
> 
> > That was me replying. I have the drives to read TK50 (a hazardous and
> > unreliable process these days), not sure about the others.  The
> > trouble is I am in the UK, I know you are reluctant to ship, and *I*
> > am reluctant to pay a lot for shipping across the pond.
> 
> Yes, that was what I thought the major barrier to just dropping them on
you
> was.
> 
> > However, if you don't get any takers, can we discuss the option of
> > sending them to me?
> 
> Sure.  I'll send you mail offlist; this is somewhat in the nature of a
heads-up,
> so if you don't get the offlist mail you'll know something's wrong.
> 


I got the offlist email and have sent a reply. Let's see whether you get it
or not.

Regards

Rob

Re: Other SMS300/8X300/8X305 uses?

[Chuck Guzis]

On 11/26/2016 08:39 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
> Now that I have an 8X300 (etc.) disassembler, which I've used to 
> disassemble the Western Digital WD1000 and WD1001 firmware, and the
> Zendex ZX-203 firmware, I've become curious as to what other products
> used the SMS300/8X300/8X305.  Does anyone know of any?

My Durango 900 series machine uses one for the hard disk controller on
what is about the size of an S100 card, but a little smaller.  It fits
in the expansion area just in back of the floppy drives and drives an
ST506-interface drive.

The previous model used a Shugart SA4000 external hard drive and a card
with an Intel 8291 and 8292 to implement a GPIB link.  The controller
itself is full of TTL and matches the footprint of the SA4000.
Microsystems Consultant in Sunnyvale designed it.

There was a floppy controller in the Signetics Bipolar 8X300 line.  It's
in the Signetics Bipolar Microcomputer databook.

--Chuck

Re: Other SMS300/8X300/8X305 uses?

[Tony Duell]

On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 4:39 AM, Eric Smith  wrote:
> Now that I have an 8X300 (etc.) disassembler, which I've used to
> disassemble the Western Digital WD1000 and WD1001 firmware, and the Zendex
> ZX-203 firmware, I've become curious as to what other products used the
> SMS300/8X300/8X305.  Does anyone know of any?
>

It will take me some time to check, but I seem to remember an ISA card,
not a disk controller, with one on. Possibly a 3720-type interface (I
think there
was a single BNC socket on the bracket, and it's not ethernet).

There's an 8X300 on the hard disk controller (Philips X1215 drive) for the
Philips P854 computer. But I suspect that is too obscure even for this
list.

-tony

Re: Other SMS300/8X300/8X305 uses?

[Glen Slick]

On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 8:39 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:
> Now that I have an 8X300 (etc.) disassembler, which I've used to
> disassemble the Western Digital WD1000 and WD1001 firmware, and the Zendex
> ZX-203 firmware, I've become curious as to what other products used the
> SMS300/8X300/8X305.  Does anyone know of any?
>

The Andromeda WDC11 MFM floppy/hard disk controller uses an 8X305. It
emulates an RX02, and an RK05 or RL01/RL02 or RP02.

I have one. I'm not sure which flavor it is. I've never gotten around
to trying to use it.

Other SMS300/8X300/8X305 uses?

[Eric Smith]

Now that I have an 8X300 (etc.) disassembler, which I've used to
disassemble the Western Digital WD1000 and WD1001 firmware, and the Zendex
ZX-203 firmware, I've become curious as to what other products used the
SMS300/8X300/8X305.  Does anyone know of any?

In the early to mid-1980s, the 8X300 was a good choice for hard disk
controllers, because all instructions took 250ns, and a single instruction
could read an I/O port or RAM location, shift and mask, and write another
I/O port or RAM location. At the time, no MOS microprocessor was even close
to that.

Re: Macintosh Portable

[drlegendre .]

Chris,

"Not really proprietary, it was before tiny portable SCSI drives were
really standardized, and Apple published everything so third parties could
create compatible hardware."

I wasn't aware that Apple had published the specs for that connector, so
you're correct that it's not proprietary in the strongest sense of the term
(trade secret). It would have been more correct to say it was an
implementation unique to Apple, and to the Mac Portable specifically - or
at least so far as I've ever known.

Do you know of any other product that used the odd 34-pin SCSI data & power
connector? Or of any 3rd party drives ever made to replace the stock
Conner? I'm not aware that either case is true..

On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Chris Hanson 
wrote:

> On Nov 26, 2016, at 1:52 AM, drlegendre .  wrote:
> >
> > You're correct about the drive connector, it's one of those maddening
> > proprietary things that Apple was and still is prone to doing. If I
> recall,
> > the drive itself uses the standard SCSI interface, but the stock drive
> has
> > a permanently attached cable with its own pinout. And I think the drive
> > cable carries both data and power.
>
> Not really proprietary, it was before tiny portable SCSI drives were
> really standardized, and Apple published everything so third parties could
> create compatible hardware.
>
> It’s just a 34-pin connector carrying both SCSI signal and power. Details
> are on page 5-31 (Chapter 5: Hardware) of the Macintosh Portable Developer
> Note, Table 5-6: SCSI Internal Connector Pinout. It should be simple to
> make an adapter for a SCSI2SD or equivalent.
>
>   -- Chris
>
>

Re: Magnetic media FTGH!

[Mouse]

>> Back in October, I wrote that I had two boxes of magnetic media that
>> were not worth - to me - the space they were taking up.

>> This drew a note from one Rob Jarratt, [...]

> That was me replying. I have the drives to read TK50 (a hazardous and
> unreliable process these days), not sure about the others.  The
> trouble is I am in the UK, I know you are reluctant to ship, and *I*
> am reluctant to pay a lot for shipping across the pond.

Yes, that was what I thought the major barrier to just dropping them on
you was.

> However, if you don't get any takers, can we discuss the option of
> sending them to me?

Sure.  I'll send you mail offlist; this is somewhat in the nature of a
heads-up, so if you don't get the offlist mail you'll know something's
wrong.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: A good shipping service for large computers?

[jim stephens]

On 11/26/2016 8:05 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

No; it just sailed right through. The fact that it was Canada->US probably
helped.
The US Customs can be jerks.  But Made in USA on the unit trumped the BS 
for me twice.  It wasn't obvious in both cases, but once I showed it on 
the device the foolishness stopped.


I think our Canadian friends had much more trouble even post NAFTA than 
I had.


The old used items I buy have all been clearly US origin or manufacture 
and they do sail thru.


thanks
Jim

Re: Macintosh Portable

[Chris Hanson]

On Nov 26, 2016, at 1:52 AM, drlegendre .  wrote:
> 
> You're correct about the drive connector, it's one of those maddening
> proprietary things that Apple was and still is prone to doing. If I recall,
> the drive itself uses the standard SCSI interface, but the stock drive has
> a permanently attached cable with its own pinout. And I think the drive
> cable carries both data and power.

Not really proprietary, it was before tiny portable SCSI drives were really 
standardized, and Apple published everything so third parties could create 
compatible hardware.

It’s just a 34-pin connector carrying both SCSI signal and power. Details are 
on page 5-31 (Chapter 5: Hardware) of the Macintosh Portable Developer Note, 
Table 5-6: SCSI Internal Connector Pinout. It should be simple to make an 
adapter for a SCSI2SD or equivalent.

  -- Chris

Re: DEC M9312 Configs for a 11/40

[william degnan]

>
>
> 2) Yes or no - Should W8 be in for am 11 40/25/10/05 or is the /40
> special?
>
>
>
TYPO - I mean "11 40/35/10/05" or is the /40 special?

b

DEC M9312 Configs for a 11/40

[william degnan]

Hi all...I am hoping there is someone here who has an 11/40 or 11/35 and a
M9312 ROM terminator card.  I'd like to know how you have yours jumpered.

I took photos of the jumpers installed in my M9312:
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/M9312/

Here is the page from the manual that describes jumpers per UNIBUS system
type:
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/PDP11-40/M9312/M9312_Jumper-configurations.JPG

1) Yes or no - Did I correctly identify the location of W8?

2) Yes or no - Should W8 be in for am 11 40/25/10/05 or is the /40 special?


Here is the issuewhen I jumper W8 the CPU can do very little and I
cannot activate the CONSOLE ROM.  I put in posts into what I believe is W8
so I can switch back and forth without having to re-solder.  With W8 out
the system works better, and I can at least get to the CONSOLE prompt.
Looking for opinions as to whether my card is correctly configured.  I am
trying to determine why I can't bootstrap and run a TU58 nor RL11, yet I
can load and run BASIC just fine.   I think I may have a UNIBUS problem OR
a CPU card problem, but I can't load XXDP either to determine for sure.

There are more problems, I can't bootstrap the RL11 nor TU58 manually
either, I am working through everything CPU and UNIBUS too.

Is there a complete XXDP tape that I can download from PDPGUI?  I found
TU58 image but I can't get the TU58em emulator to work yet.   If I could
just figure out why I can load BASIC and not RL02 RT11 I'd make my day.

Thanks

Bill

RE: Magnetic media FTGH!

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mouse
> Sent: 26 November 2016 17:28
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Magnetic media FTGH!
> 
> Back in October, I wrote that I had two boxes of magnetic media that were
> not worth - to me - the space they were taking up.
> 
> This drew a note from one Rob Jarratt, saying
> 
> > I think the Ultrix and FORTRAN tapes have got to be worth saving
> > whatever happens, and possibly the MicroVMS ones too, [...].  [...]
> > please don't get rid of those particular media without giving someone
> > the opportunity to image them.
> 
> I haven't heard from anyone, and I can't really hang onto these
indefinitely in
> the hope that a nebulous "someone" will show up to image them.  As I wrote
> in October, I didn't have a system that could image any of them, and that
> hasn't changed since then.
> 
> I know there are at least a few of us in/near Ottawa; if any of them read
this
> and are willing to help out, possibly by imaging the tapes, possibly by
just
> taking over keeping them, possibly something else, I'd love to hear about
it.  I
> too think it would be good to preserve the data...BUT not to the extent of
> overriding my need to pare back the space my *ahem* "collection" is
> occupying.  I think the end of the year is about as long as I can wait
without
> hearing anything.
> 
> Given email's unreliability these days, I'd also like to leave more than
just
> email as a way of getting hold of me.  +1-613-482-0910 should either reach
> me or take a message.
> 


That was me replying. I have the drives to read TK50 (a hazardous and
unreliable process these days), not sure about the others. The trouble is I
am in the UK, I know you are reluctant to ship, and *I* am reluctant to pay
a lot for shipping across the pond.

However, if you don't get any takers, can we discuss the option of sending
them to me?

Regards

Rob

Re: A good shipping service for large computers?

[Todd Goodman]

* Noel Chiappa  [161126 11:05]:
> > From: Todd Goodman
> 
> > Did you have any issues with customs bringing in the racked equipment
> > from Toronto?
> 
> No; it just sailed right through. The fact that it was Canada->US probably
> helped.

Well, I've had problems with US Customs coming back into the US from
Canada as well (not to mention from the US into Canada but that wasn't
about computer equipment.)

> 
> IIRC PakMail in Toronto picked a customs broker - or maybe we were talking
> about doing that, and he decided we needn't bother? I forget now.

That's good to know!

> 
> 
> > Both times the carrier knew it was unpalleted computer equipment and
> > did a good job using blankets and strapping them into the trucks.
> > ...
> > The other carrier did a great job .. They mostly ship antiques and
> > pianos and other items that can be fragile and not palleted
> > ...
> > Both were very competitively priced in my experience.
> 
> Sounds like these were both so-called 'white glove' shippers, who do things
> like furniture, etc.

Yes indeed.

> 
> Those are also an option, but in my experience, somewhat more expensive: when
> I was shipping a pair of -11/84's from California to Virginia, the shipping
> cost just about doubled when I had to switch from freight to 'white glove' for
> them. Hence my advice to palletize stuff, and send it freight (at least for
> cross-continent, where the difference really adds up).

These were on uShip where the carriers bid on your shipment so the
prices were really very reasonable compared to even regular LTL
shipping.

Todd

> 
>   Noel

Re: Magnetic media FTGH!

[Mouse]

Back in October, I wrote that I had two boxes of magnetic media that
were not worth - to me - the space they were taking up.

This drew a note from one Rob Jarratt, saying

> I think the Ultrix and FORTRAN tapes have got to be worth saving
> whatever happens, and possibly the MicroVMS ones too, [...].  [...]
> please don't get rid of those particular media without giving someone
> the opportunity to image them.

I haven't heard from anyone, and I can't really hang onto these
indefinitely in the hope that a nebulous "someone" will show up to
image them.  As I wrote in October, I didn't have a system that could
image any of them, and that hasn't changed since then.

I know there are at least a few of us in/near Ottawa; if any of them
read this and are willing to help out, possibly by imaging the tapes,
possibly by just taking over keeping them, possibly something else, I'd
love to hear about it.  I too think it would be good to preserve the
data...BUT not to the extent of overriding my need to pare back the
space my *ahem* "collection" is occupying.  I think the end of the year
is about as long as I can wait without hearing anything.

Given email's unreliability these days, I'd also like to leave more
than just email as a way of getting hold of me.  +1-613-482-0910 should
either reach me or take a message.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: A good shipping service for large computers?

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Todd Goodman

> Did you have any issues with customs bringing in the racked equipment
> from Toronto?

No; it just sailed right through. The fact that it was Canada->US probably
helped.

IIRC PakMail in Toronto picked a customs broker - or maybe we were talking
about doing that, and he decided we needn't bother? I forget now.


> Both times the carrier knew it was unpalleted computer equipment and
> did a good job using blankets and strapping them into the trucks.
> ...
> The other carrier did a great job .. They mostly ship antiques and
> pianos and other items that can be fragile and not palleted
> ...
> Both were very competitively priced in my experience.

Sounds like these were both so-called 'white glove' shippers, who do things
like furniture, etc.

Those are also an option, but in my experience, somewhat more expensive: when
I was shipping a pair of -11/84's from California to Virginia, the shipping
cost just about doubled when I had to switch from freight to 'white glove' for
them. Hence my advice to palletize stuff, and send it freight (at least for
cross-continent, where the difference really adds up).

Noel

Re: A good shipping service for large computers?

[Todd Goodman]

* Noel Chiappa  [161125 18:49]:
[..SNIP..]
> I have had good luck with PakMail (http://www.pakmail.com/); I've had them
> ship a couple of 6' racks (one from Arizona, one from Toronto), and been very
> happy with the results.
[..SNIP..]

Hi Noel,

Did you have any issues with customs bringing in the racked equipment
from Toronto?

I've had so much trouble in the past that I've had to use a customs
broker (this was a container from England.)

They wanted prices and state of origin for all the pieces and pulled
everything out of the container for inspection twice (which I paid for
including transport to and from the inspection station of course.)

For the OP, I've had good success shipping racks and an a keypunch with
integrated table, both unpalleted, via uShip.  The key to use them is
specify everything in great detail (covered, unpalleted, etc) up front.
Both times the carrier knew it was unpalleted computer equipment and did
a good job using blankets and strapping them into the trucks.  I did
have help preparing the racks (getting cables all inside the racks and
shrink wrapping them to keep things from sliding out, thanks Steve!)

The other carrier did a great job picking up the keypunch (the seller
was very happy with them) and delivering.  They mostly ship antiques and
pianos and other items that can be fragile and not palleted and so were
a good choice for shipping vintage computer equipment.)

Both were very competitively priced in my experience.

Thanks,

Todd

Re: A good shipping service for large computers?

[Pontus Pihlgren]

Congratulations! Where does one find _three_ Crimsons these days?

I would consider going there myself to pack them,, Crimsons are 
somewhate fragile. Not extremely so, like some SGI machines, but there 
are some places you shouldn't lift.

Perhaps you could find an SGI collector in california to help you in 
exchange for one of them. Check out nekochan.

/P


On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 02:59:15PM -0500, devin davison wrote:
> I have purchased 3 large SGi crimson computers and need them shipped from
> california to florida. I am uncertain of a good service to use for the
> task, i need the machines to be packaged up / put on a pallet at the pickup
> location, the owner is unable to do so. Usualy I would use YRC freight,
> however they do not offer the service to package the machines on site.
> 
> Hopefully someone here can make a suggestion. Ive never dealt with shipping
> something this large before. I did have a Microvax 3800 shipped with YRC
> freight, however that was purchased through a business and was packaged
> before shipping. The crimsons will be a bit larger.
> 
> I have the machines paid for, but figuring out the shipping has had me a
> bit stumped for the past few days.
> 
> --Devin

Re: Macintosh Portable

[Brian Marstella]

Chris,

I remembered seeing this post from a couple of years ago when I was looking
at a Mac Portable. I ended up not buying it so I can't speak for whether
this will work, but it might point in the right direction. See especially
the links around the 4th post in the thread as it shows a 34 pin converter
method.

Regards, Brian.

On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 5:16 AM, Alexandre Souza <
alexandre.tabaj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Chris, is it a 40 pin cable?
>
> Enviado do meu Tele-Movel
>
> Em 26/11/2016 04:26, "Chris Pye"  escreveu:
>
> > Does anyone know off hand what polarity that Mac Portable requires? I
> know
> > that the original was 7.5V @ 1.5A, but not sure of the polarity.
> >
> > I did have have a PB100 power supply that I used with mine, but
> > (unfortunately) no longer have it.
> >
> > Also (if it still works) what is the easiest way to image the old Conner
> > SCSI drive? It doesn’t appear to have a standard connector.
> >
> > I have googled this, but didn’t come up with anything useful.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris...
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Macintosh Portable

[Alexandre Souza]

Chris, is it a 40 pin cable?

Enviado do meu Tele-Movel

Em 26/11/2016 04:26, "Chris Pye"  escreveu:

> Does anyone know off hand what polarity that Mac Portable requires? I know
> that the original was 7.5V @ 1.5A, but not sure of the polarity.
>
> I did have have a PB100 power supply that I used with mine, but
> (unfortunately) no longer have it.
>
> Also (if it still works) what is the easiest way to image the old Conner
> SCSI drive? It doesn’t appear to have a standard connector.
>
> I have googled this, but didn’t come up with anything useful.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Chris...
>
>
>
>

Re: Macintosh Portable

[drlegendre .]

I can't answer your question about PSU polarity, but I do have some
experience with the Mac Portable hard drive. I had to 'make' a replacement
drive for one, almost 20 years ago now.. so forgive me if there are errors
in this!

You're correct about the drive connector, it's one of those maddening
proprietary things that Apple was and still is prone to doing. If I recall,
the drive itself uses the standard SCSI interface, but the stock drive has
a permanently attached cable with its own pinout. And I think the drive
cable carries both data and power.

If you can find the +correct+ 20 or 40MB (?) Conner hard disk, you can make
a cable that allows you to use one as a replacement for the stock drive,
which is very prone to failure. Apparently, the stock drive is a low-power
version of the otherwise identical Conner drives available at that time.
The stock drive has a red label, and if I recall, the similar but
not-low-power drive has a green label. So the common green-label drive
works fine, but it will consume more battery than the special low-power
version.

Point is, if it still exists, find the web page that shows how to make &
wire the adapter cable - and that should give you enough info to create a
data & power cable that will allow you to read the stock disk.

There was also some talk, at the time, that it was possible to transfer the
complete circuit board, with cable, to one of the green label drives.. and
have it work. Of course, this would only work if the drive had a physical
failure, rather than a failure with the board electronics. In my case, I
had to wire up a special cable.. it took a couple hrs, but worked fine.

On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Chris Pye  wrote:

> Does anyone know off hand what polarity that Mac Portable requires? I know
> that the original was 7.5V @ 1.5A, but not sure of the polarity.
>
> I did have have a PB100 power supply that I used with mine, but
> (unfortunately) no longer have it.
>
> Also (if it still works) what is the easiest way to image the old Conner
> SCSI drive? It doesn’t appear to have a standard connector.
>
> I have googled this, but didn’t come up with anything useful.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Chris...
>
>
>
>

Re: A good shipping service for large computers?

[COURYHOUSE]

we liked our winstar that was on a  taurus  wagon chassis  I  was  told... 
wish we still had it  hauled a lot of  stuff in  it!
 
currently have a  subaru forester...unfortunately  is is not  as much 
volume as the winstar with the seats  out! I  hear the outback  has a 
longer   cargo  area.Ed# 
 
 
In a message dated 11/25/2016 8:57:21 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
el...@pico-systems.com writes:

On  11/25/2016 05:49 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> I have discovered that a Ford  Taurus wagon nicely holds an H960 6'x19" 
rack
> (I joked that the car  must have been designed by someone who collects old
> gear :-), so I  have been able to pick up a shipment consisting of _two_
> H960's this  way: one inside, and one on the roof rack. With only one 
person,
> one  has to remove the heavy units first, and put them in the car  
separately,
> but it can be done.
>
No, it was designed by a  guy whose wife plays harp in the 
symphony. My cousin does that, and the  Taurus from years ago 
was the only station wagon that would fit it.   The others 
came up short by just one  inch!

Jon