Re: UNIBUS/QBUS interface chips Was: Re: MEM11 update

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:53 PM, allison  wrote:

> A bunch of us old digits (former dec engineers) got together and were
> talking
> about old systems and the thing that stood out is a general dislike for
> having
> to use the limited set of bus interface chips when there were newer
> parts.  It
> was a internal mandate not something that was better than could be had.
> The
> logic was the parts were known, the vendors vetted for quality and
> reliability
> and when you use hundreds of thousands to millions of a part like bus
> interface
> and ram quality is a critical thing.  Were they special, a flat no.
>

I don't fully agree. The receivers (and transceivers) had a threshold
voltage that is not available with modern parts, and that actually was
important for large systems with multiple bus segments.  That was
particularly important for large Unibus systems, but even Qbus with only
two bus segments can get finicky when heavily loaded.

DEC could easily have made custom interface ICs if they had needed them.

AFAIK, *no* current production interface ICs have the right threshold. It's
hard to meet the spec without using either NOS parts or comparators.

It would certainly be possible to build a functionally equivalent bus with
modern interface ICs, and it might have significantly better performance,
but it wouldn't be compatible with the legacy systems.

Re: Searching for a lost Macintosh TV (Texas)

[jim stephens]

On 12/5/2016 6:49 PM, Tothwolf wrote:

I would also just like to know that the machine didn't end up scrapped.
You might look up John Keys in the Houston area for other collectors 
around there.  He may still listen on the list.  Not sure if he is 
active, but he had a lot of connections there.


There were a couple of list members who replied when I asked for Austin 
Tx places to visit that might help you as well since Austin is close 
enough to Houston that the airport out of Houston is considered a long 
run alternative (so I was told), so they may know.


The collectors and E-waste folks in Austin as it exists now I'd put a 
low chance of it being saved by someone that will see this.  So maybe 
hit all the craigslists with your information and offer a small reward, 
post photos, etc.  There is no charge, and Austin, San Antonio, Houston 
and Dallas, Ft. Worth would be worth hitting.


Good Luck with it.
thanks
jim

Re: UNIBUS/QBUS interface chips Was: Re: MEM11 update

[allison]

On 12/05/2016 06:35 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
> On 2016-05-02 9:48 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>> > From: Pete Lancashire
>>
>> > Do you or someone have a list of all the Unibus bus chips ?
>>
>> I have seen the following bus interface chips used on DEC UNIBUS boards:
>>
>> Drivers:
>>
>> 8881 - Sprague, Signetics - Quad NAND
>>
>> Receivers:
>>
>> 380 - Signetics - Quad NOR
>> 314 - Signetics - 7-input NOR
>> 8815 - Signetics - 4-input NOR
>> 8837 - National Semi - Hex receiver (aka Signetics N8T37)
>> 8640 - National Semi - Quad NOR
>>
>> Transceivers:
>>
>> 8641 - National Semi - Quad transceiver
>>
>> The actal complete part number can vary depending on the
>> manufacturer; e.g.
>> the 8641's are usually DS8641N, from NatSemi, and the 380's are usually
>> SP380A's or SP380N's. Where the basic number is not included (as with
>> the
>> 8T37 for the 8837) I have given it.
>>
>> The following chips have been used by DEC to interface to the QBUS, and
>> I have seen many of the above chips (e.g. 8641's) used there too, so I
>> think chips seen on one bus could be used on the other:
>>
>> Drivers:
>>
>> 7439 - Various - Quad NAND
>>
>> Transceivers:
>>
>> 2908 - AMD - Quad latching transceiver with tri-state output
>>
>> I _believe_ the following chips are also usable as UNIBUS/QBUS interface
>> chips, but I'm not sure if I've seen one used there:
>>
>> Transceivers:
>>
>> 8836 - National Semi - Quad NOR
>> 8838 - National Semi - Quad transceiver (aka Signetics N8T38)
>>
>> Quite a zoo!
>>
>> Noel
>>
>
>

Also 74LS240, 7438, DM8130, dm8838, and Andromeda (the guys that use
the AM29x305) liked the AM2908.

> Has anyone looked at the TI Signal Switch family for QBus? (hat tip
> Ian Finder)
>
> http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/three-new-bus-switch-families-from-texas-instruments-enhance-performance-of-datacom-and-networking-equipment-and-optimize-next-generation-portable-computing-and-communications-designs-70812102.html
>
>
Not the best animal as the are CMOS.

A bunch of us old digits (former dec engineers) got together and were
talking
about old systems and the thing that stood out is a general dislike for
having
to use the limited set of bus interface chips when there were newer
parts.  It
was a internal mandate not something that was better than could be had. 
The
logic was the parts were known, the vendors vetted for quality and
reliability
and when you use hundreds of thousands to millions of a part like bus
interface
and ram quality is a critical thing.  Were they special, a flat no.

But next time you look at an LSI-11/2 dual width processor card look at
the line of
caps that are on the bus, they are there to tame the ringing.

Allison

> --Toby
>
>
>

HP 9872 Refurbishment

[Craig Ruff]

I hauled out my second 9872C today to clean it of rodent leavings and to 
scavenge the high voltage chart hold power supply board for my first 9872C.

The table has some gouges in the surface, which appears to be a plastic film 
adhered to the table surface.  Does anyone have experience repairing gouges, or 
found a suitable replacement film?

Also, since I have it apart, I thought it might be good to image the firmware 
ROM set.  They are marked Mostek MK36647N-5 and MK36648N-5, along with the HP 
part numbers.  From the schematic, they appear to be 5V 8KB ROMs, so nothing 
fancy should be required to read the contents.  It appears these might be 
MK36000N-5 mask programmed ROMs?

P.S. It appears list submission doesn’t like digitally signed emails.

Re: HP 9872 Refurbishment

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Craig Ruff  wrote:

> Also, since I have it apart, I thought it might be good to image the
> firmware ROM set.  They are marked Mostek MK36647N-5 and MK36648N-5, along
> with the HP part numbers.  From the schematic, they appear to be 5V 8KB
> ROMs, so nothing fancy should be required to read the contents.  It appears
> these might be MK36000N-5 mask programmed ROMs?
>

Yes. And same for the 9872T.

The 9872A uses HP ROMs that aren't compatible with anything else. I'm not
sure about the 9872B and 9872S.

Re: Searching for a lost Macintosh TV (Texas)

[Tothwolf]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016, Ian Finder wrote:


Props for for having a good sense of humor. It made me laugh.

Seriously though I hate to say it but your quest feels pretty damn 
futile.


I wish you luck either way, and would offer you my MacTV but it is long 
gone.


If you can provide names of unique files or something that was on the 
drive- identifiable but not sensitive- it might help you. Like I said, 
there's nothing to key off of in your original post.


I've hunted far rarer specific systems- smbx machines and the like that 
went missing from universities with good inventory control only one or 
two years ago- and had zero luck.


Also do try Low End Mac and 68kmla, this is more relevant to those 
audiences.


I'm not really looking to find a MacTV for myself, I have other Macs in 
storage which are much more useful machines. Its a novel machine, sure, 
but just not terribly useful.


I do have very detailed information of what was on the computer (I have 
that full system backup from May 24, 1998), but I do not want to post any 
of that publicly.


Given how few Macintosh TVs still exist, with the timeframe I mentioned in 
my initial post (I was told late 2010), if a MacTV sold in that part of 
Texas to a collector, the chance it might be that very computer is 
certainly greater than zero. The odds are certainly much better than they 
would be for a much more common Mac or random PC.


Of course even if it did turn up, the hard drive or files might be long 
gone. If I didn't at least post something about it though, the chance it 
might turn up with an intact hard drive would be zero ;)

Searching for a lost Macintosh TV (Texas)

[Ian Finder]

Props for for having a good sense of humor. It made me laugh.

Seriously though I hate to say it but your quest feels pretty damn futile.

I wish you luck either way, and would offer you my MacTV but it is long
gone.

If you can provide names of unique files or something that was on the
drive- identifiable but not sensitive- it might help you. Like I said,
there's nothing to key off of in your original post.

I've hunted far rarer specific systems- smbx machines and the like that
went missing from universities with good inventory control only one or two
years ago- and had zero luck.

Also do try Low End Mac and 68kmla, this is more relevant to those
audiences.

Cheers,

- I

On Monday, December 5, 2016, Tothwolf > wrote:

> On Mon, 5 Dec 2016, Ian Finder wrote:
>
> They sold 10,000 Apple TVs. That's a lot.
>>
>> You lost track of one ten years ago, and have given no real methodology
>> for discerning it from any other- the number out there with OS 7.6 or 8mb
>> of ram will be significant.
>>
>> Perhaps you should go door-to-door, or hang flyers. It would probably
>> yield better results.
>>
>
> [Sorry Jay, but I'm going to do this on-list.]
>
> Wow, Ian, you sure are helpful! Would you be willing to help me print up
> and distribute those fliers?
>
> 
>
> :)
>


-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com





-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Troubleshooting spooky & intermittent instability after power-up: Symbolics XL1200

[Ian Finder]

Hi folks,

I know this is a long shot but... I'm having a rather curious issue with
one of my Symbolics XL 1200 CPUs, which I suspect may have a far more
general cause.

I have narrowed the issue down to the specific Merlin II CPU card I'm
running- not the RAM, Jumper, I/O, backplane, power supply or any of that
good stuff.

My friend Doug has a rather pretty picture of the board in question on his
site:
https://symbolics.lisp.engineer/koken/albums/merlin-ii/content/img-4316/lightbox/

It's basically a big wedge of PGA ASIC encapsulations and PALs, for those
unfamiliar.

The symptom is this. After a cold boot- a fresh power-up from no power
applied- the system will hang after 30-40 seconds into the startup with a
hard lock and sometimes memory bus issues. If I wait 10 more seconds or so,
and hit reset, the system usually comes up fine for hours.

If I hold the system in reset for a few minutes during the cold boot before
proceeding, the system works fine.

The repro rate is close to 100%. If the machine is off for a few minutes,
then cold booted, the issue repros.

It sounds as if something has gone thermally sensitive in a very
deterministic manner. Can that happen with the tantalum caps on the board?
Perhaps they are shorting intermittently for the first few dozen seconds?

Again, the rest of the system is good- the issue follows this board and
only this board no matter which chassis it runs in. All socketed ICs have
been reseated.

I know this isn't much to go off of, but anyone out there have experience
with spooky "intermittent" yet 100% repro-able cold-power-up issues?

I'll debug further of course, but thought I'd ask here.

Thanks,

- Ian

-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Searching for a lost Macintosh TV (Texas)

[Tothwolf]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016, Ian Finder wrote:


They sold 10,000 Apple TVs. That's a lot.

You lost track of one ten years ago, and have given no real methodology 
for discerning it from any other- the number out there with OS 7.6 or 
8mb of ram will be significant.


Perhaps you should go door-to-door, or hang flyers. It would probably 
yield better results.


[Sorry Jay, but I'm going to do this on-list.]

Wow, Ian, you sure are helpful! Would you be willing to help me print up 
and distribute those fliers?




:)

Re: Black anti-static foam corrosion

[Tothwolf]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2016, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Sat, 3 Dec 2016, drlegendre . wrote:

Interesting find, thanks for posting this. I've seen this as well. with 
a batch of old ICs which had been stored (in black foam) for some 20-30 
years. The leads kind of just stayed behind in the foam.. My assumption 
was that the foam was simply hygroscopic, and held enough atmospheric 
moisture & pollutants to foster corrosion.


There are numerous black foam formulations.

I inherited some lenses (including a Leitz Tele-Elmarit 180mm (<250 
made)) that had been stored for a few decades in an essentially airtight 
case with black foam.  When I first opened the case, it seemed as though 
there was liquid in the case, with an intense vinegar? smell.  Second 
time that I opened the case, a few hours later, it was dry and crumbly, 
and the outer painted surfaces of the lenses were badly pitted and had 
to scrape bits of the foam off, but NOT at all like water damage.  It 
turned that lens from mint condition and a major rarity, into usable but 
POOR cosmetic condition (a loss of more than a thousand dollars in 
value!). (Three other cases had simply disappeared between the time my 
buddy died and the time that the county let us go through the house.)


Something similar happened with a Nikon FT2, Nikon EM, and some lenses 
after a local friend of mine passed away in 2001. The same also happened 
with his HAM radio gear, which I was supposed to get. For much of the 
radio gear, I could likely come up with the model/serial numbers too. (We 
know who took the HAM radio gear, but couldn't really do much about it.)


http://strudel.ignorelist
.com/~tothwolf/classiccmp/stolen_nikon_camera_gear.txt

Re: Searching for a lost Macintosh TV (Texas)

[Ian Finder]

They sold 10,000 Apple TVs. That's a lot.

You lost track of one ten years ago, and have given no real methodology for
discerning it from any other- the number out there with OS 7.6 or 8mb of
ram will be significant.

Perhaps you should go door-to-door, or hang flyers. It would probably yield
better results.



On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Tothwolf  wrote:

> I'm not really active in any of the classic computing communities apart
> from classiccmp, so I would appreciate it if others could pass this message
> around and see if this computer ended up in the hands of a fellow collector.
>
> A good friend of mine who lived in Spring, TX (north of Houston) owned a
> black Macintosh TV (1993 vintage). During a move many years ago (late
> 2010), it mistakenly ended up turned in as ewaste. I only found out late
> this year (2016) that this had happened.
>
> Given how rare/uncommon these machines are, chances are very high that it
> ended up resold on eBay or similar instead of being scrapped. I have no
> records of the serial number of the machine, but according to my archives,
> I installed Mac OS 7.6.1 on it on May 5, 1998. It was also upgraded with an
> 8MB SIMM but still had the factory hard drive.
>
> If by some chance a fellow collector ended up with it, and if it still has
> its hard drive and files intact, my friend would really like to obtain a
> copy of her files (a disk image of the hard drive would be ideal). I
> happened to still have a backup of the machine on a zip disk from May 24,
> 1998, but she had continued to use the machine off and on for many years
> after that. I would also just like to know that the machine didn't end up
> scrapped.
>



-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Searching for a lost Macintosh TV (Texas)

[Tothwolf]

I'm not really active in any of the classic computing communities apart 
from classiccmp, so I would appreciate it if others could pass this 
message around and see if this computer ended up in the hands of a fellow 
collector.


A good friend of mine who lived in Spring, TX (north of Houston) owned a 
black Macintosh TV (1993 vintage). During a move many years ago (late 
2010), it mistakenly ended up turned in as ewaste. I only found out late 
this year (2016) that this had happened.


Given how rare/uncommon these machines are, chances are very high that it 
ended up resold on eBay or similar instead of being scrapped. I have no 
records of the serial number of the machine, but according to my archives, 
I installed Mac OS 7.6.1 on it on May 5, 1998. It was also upgraded with 
an 8MB SIMM but still had the factory hard drive.


If by some chance a fellow collector ended up with it, and if it still has 
its hard drive and files intact, my friend would really like to obtain a 
copy of her files (a disk image of the hard drive would be ideal). I 
happened to still have a backup of the machine on a zip disk from May 24, 
1998, but she had continued to use the machine off and on for many years 
after that. I would also just like to know that the machine didn't end up 
scrapped.

Re: Double Buffer RK11-C

[Glen Slick]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> > From: Fritz Mueller
>
> > Also, clues about an 11/20 interface for the FP11-B that were noticed
> > recently.
>
> I don't recall this; more details, if possible? Thanks!
>
> Noel

You should also hang out at vcfed forum in addition to hanging out here.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55131-FP11-B-what-is-signal-FICC-EXT-ADD-L

Re: Double Buffer RK11-C

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Fritz Mueller

> Also, clues about an 11/20 interface for the FP11-B that were noticed
> recently.

I don't recall this; more details, if possible? Thanks!

Noel

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Glen Slick]

>
> Search for 1630 on http://www.ko4bb.com/ and there is a  "HP 1630A D
> 1631A D Logic Analyzer EPROM 14-Oct-1985-HP 1630A-D 1631A-D ROMs.zip"
> file with these EPROM images, which is supposed to be the latest
> version listed in the service manual for the 1630A, 1630D, 1631A,
> 1631D (but not compatible with the 1630G):
>
> 01630-80054
> 01630-80055
> 01630-80056
> 01630-80057
> 01630-80058
> 01630-80059
> 01630-80060
> 01630-80061
>
> That version should have HP-IB mass storage device support instead of
> HP-IL. Those are 16KB 27128 EPROM images. As far as I can tell from
> the service manuals some of the early versions of the 1630 CPU boards
> had 8KB 2764 EPROMs. I'm not sure if you could simply replace 2764
> EPROMs on an early CPU with 27128 EPROMs. I don't know how the 1 of 8
> chip enable decoding would work with both 8KB and 16KB parts.
>

To answer my own question about 2764 vs. 27128 EPROM support on the
CPU board, the schematics in the service manuals on Bitsavers are much
more readable than in the scan of the service manual I downloaded from
the HP / Agilent / Keysight website.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/te/163x/01630-90910_1630A_D_G_Logic_Analyzer_Service_Manual_Jun84.pdf
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/te/163x/01630-90917_1630_Service_Apr88.pdf

Schematic sheet 8B-3 shows that address lines HPA0 - HPA12 go to
address lines A0 - A12 of each EPROM in parallel, which allows for 8KB
for each EPROM, then address lines HPA13 - HPA15 go to the
demultiplexer to enable 1 of 8 EPROMs, then HPA16 goes to A13 of each
EPROM in parallel.

Inside 2764 EPROMs the HPA16 connection to A13 in the EPROM is a N/C.
With 27128 EPROMs that would allow a second bank of 64KB address space
to be mapped across the top half of the eight 16KB EPROMs.

So from the schematic it appears that if a 1630 CPU board has 2764
EPROMs it should be possible to swap those out for the final 27128
EPROM version and the address decoding should just work.  I'll find
out if that is actually true when I receive a 1630D later this week.

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:

> Model conversion table
> Note (1)
> 1630A/D shipped before February 1, 1985 uses an HP-IL cassette drive
> for mass storage.
> 1630A/D shipped after February 1, 1985 uses an HP-IB disc drive for
> mass storage.
>

Ah, that was it. I must have been mistaken about 9114 support, though
possibly the cassette version might work with the 9114, since the 9114
supports a superset of the 82161A commands.

I can't recall now whether the later firmware supported Amigo (e.g., 9121),
SS/80 (e.g. 9122), or both.

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Glen Slick]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:
>
> IIRC from many years ago, different versions of the 163x firmware support
> the 82161A tape drive, the 9114A floppy drive, and remote control.  I don't
> think there's any version that supports both tape and floppy. I'm not sure
> what version(s) support remote control.

http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5958-3780.pdf
Title & Document Type: 10330A/10331A Upgrade Kits Installation Instructions
Manual Part Number: 5958-3780
Revision Date: May 1985

Model conversion table
Note (1)
1630A/D shipped before February 1, 1985 uses an HP-IL cassette drive
for mass storage.
1630A/D shipped after February 1, 1985 uses an HP-IB disc drive for
mass storage.
Note (2) regarding Tape ROM Set
This ROM Set consists of the following parts:
01630-80008  01630-80009  01630-80010  01630-80011
01630-80012  01630-80013  01630-80014  01630-80015

Re: UNIBUS/QBUS interface chips Was: Re: MEM11 update

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Toby Thain  wrote:

> Has anyone looked at the TI Signal Switch family for QBus? (hat tip Ian
> Finder)
>

I use those for interfacing 5V TTL-compatible stuff to 3.3V logic.

It doesn't really solve the major Qbus problems.  In particular, it doesn't
help with either the receiver threshold or the drive requirements.

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Glen Slick  wrote:

> But it also seemed to detect a sector number 17 with no data in each
> track. Is that a normal 9121 low level format?
>

It's normal for the HP 3 1/2" floppies to have an extra sector, which is
used for wear tracking, but I don't know about "no data".

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 12/5/2016 2:45 PM, Glen Slick wrote:

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Holm Tiffe  wrote:

I've heard from a friend that another friend that died in the menatime, had
managed to copy HP9121 disks on a plain PC with something like Super Copy.


I tried using ImageDisk on a PC to read the two HP 1630 3.5-inch
floppies I have (10304 8085 preprocessor, 10342 HP-IB, RS-232C/V.24,
RS-449 preprocessor). It appeared to be able to read the expected data
just fine. Singled sided disk with 16 256-byte sectors per track
(sector numbers 0 - 15) and 70 tracks.

But it also seemed to detect a sector number 17 with no data in each
track. Is that a normal 9121 low level format? I haven't tried to
write a floppy back out using ImageDisk to see if the result is
readable on a 9121 drive.

I should also try hooking up a 9121 drive to a PC and see if HPDir
dumps the same binary data I get using ImageDisk.


Here are my notes on LIF disks and the 
utils I have.  I got this from 
somewhere, but can't remember where, so 
can't give the well-deserved credit to 
the rightful person -- I'm sorry.



There have been different tools provided 
for handling LIF discs:


1.  Still quite useful are the "LIF 
Utilities for DOS" from HP. The LIF 
utilities support the handling of LIF 
floppy discs in standard PC floppy disc 
drives and drives connected via HP-IB 
similar to the HPDir program.


   A DOS-based graphical user interface 
covers functions like initializing LIF 
discs, copying files from DOS to LIF and 
vice versa, purging files as well as 
editing LIF discs with a hex editor.


   The LIF Utilities work under DOS and 
Windows 9x, but not under NT based 
Windows like XP or Vista. The HP-IB 
operation is restricted to HP's own 
HP-IB interface cards (namely the 
HP82335A, the HP82990A and the HP88500A 
interfaces) and can communicate only 
with drives supporting the CS80/SS80 
command sets (not Amigo).



2.  Another LIF tool is HP's Standard 
Data Format (SDF) Utilities. Although 
originally intended for the exchange of 
data with HP analyzer instruments, there 
are two programs included (LIF.EXE and 
LIFDIAG.EXE) for LIF access, file 
conversion and diagnostics.


   Just like the LIF Utilities those 
programs allow initializing LIF discs as 
well as file copying, deletion, 
conversion and listing both using 
standard floppy disc drives and drives 
connected via HP-IB.


  The SDF utils support SS80 drives 
*only* [sic jws] but not AMIGO command 
set. However, these programs support the 
PCII and AT-GPIB IEEE488/GPIB cards from 
National Instruments in addition to the 
HP88500A and HP82335 interfaces.



3.  Finally, there is still a basic 
support for LIF under HP-UX. For a 
certain period, the LIF format was used 
as bootstrap format (an initial 
execution vector was added in the system 
record for this purpose).



See HPDir.

Re: UNIBUS/QBUS interface chips Was: Re: MEM11 update

[Toby Thain]

On 2016-05-02 9:48 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

> From: Pete Lancashire

> Do you or someone have a list of all the Unibus bus chips ?

I have seen the following bus interface chips used on DEC UNIBUS boards:

Drivers:

8881 - Sprague, Signetics - Quad NAND

Receivers:

380 - Signetics - Quad NOR
314 - Signetics - 7-input NOR
8815 - Signetics - 4-input NOR
8837 - National Semi - Hex receiver (aka Signetics N8T37)
8640 - National Semi - Quad NOR

Transceivers:

8641 - National Semi - Quad transceiver

The actal complete part number can vary depending on the manufacturer; e.g.
the 8641's are usually DS8641N, from NatSemi, and the 380's are usually
SP380A's or SP380N's. Where the basic number is not included (as with the
8T37 for the 8837) I have given it.

The following chips have been used by DEC to interface to the QBUS, and
I have seen many of the above chips (e.g. 8641's) used there too, so I
think chips seen on one bus could be used on the other:

Drivers:

7439 - Various - Quad NAND

Transceivers:

2908 - AMD - Quad latching transceiver with tri-state output

I _believe_ the following chips are also usable as UNIBUS/QBUS interface
chips, but I'm not sure if I've seen one used there:

Transceivers:

8836 - National Semi - Quad NOR
8838 - National Semi - Quad transceiver (aka Signetics N8T38)

Quite a zoo!

Noel




Has anyone looked at the TI Signal Switch family for QBus? (hat tip Ian 
Finder)


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/three-new-bus-switch-families-from-texas-instruments-enhance-performance-of-datacom-and-networking-equipment-and-optimize-next-generation-portable-computing-and-communications-designs-70812102.html

--Toby

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 12/5/2016 2:31 PM, Holm Tiffe wrote:



Hey Holm;

I'm _pretty sure_ I have the Z80 disassembler for the 1630. I have a 1630G
and a 9121, but unfortunately I was never able to get the 1631 to talk to
the 9121 - I don't know if the drive was bad as I have no other way to
test it.

Has anyone else gotten you an image of this? if not I can try and figure
out a way to image it.

   - JP

No, I don't have gotten something off list jet.
I've heard from a friend that another friend that died in the menatime, had
managed to copy HP9121 disks on a plain PC with something like Super Copy.
The drive was used on some HP Computer that controlled a PCB assembly
system from Siemens in his case and that is from where my Drive is
coming from.
Additionally I've read somewhere that it should be possible to write
such disks on Linux with some utils, but I haven't had the time jet to do
some experiments myself.
I have an FreeBSD Computer with 3,5 and 5,25 inch floppy drives in the
same room as the 1631D, maybe I could try this tomorrow.

What's the problem with your drive? Set the Drives Address to 2, this is
the default and check the peripherals menu again it the drive could be
found. I've fiddeled around for some time until I got it going...

Regards,

Holm



Aren't these 1630D diskettes in 
HP's LIF format?   There are LIF 
utilities for the PC to read / write 
diskettes for the 9121.  I've done it 
and have all the hardware and software 
in working order -- just not readily 
available for awhile.


Like you, Holm, I've a 1630D as 
well as 1630G I'd love to find these 
disassemblers for.   Would be useful to 
collect as many as can be found and put 
on Bitsavers.


- J.

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Charles Anthony wrote:
> PDP-10: 36 bit word, 5*7bit characters.

Mouse wrote:
>> You mean like any 36-bit machine?
> No, they usually either ran as 6 6-bit bytes or 4 9-bit bytes, from
> what I understand.

As Charles wrote, the PDP-10 commonly uses 7-bit bytes for ASCII text,
but that's only part of the truth.  The architecture is quite byte size
agnostic.  There are instructions to operate on any byte size from 1 to
36 bits, at any position inside a word.  (Well, a later extension to the
architecture restricted this a bit.)

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Mouse]

>>> Middle-endian FTW
>> That makes me wonder: was there any hardware that used an endianness
>> such that conversion didn't loop with period 2?
> Not quite the same thing but weren't longwords on the PDP-11
> little-endian for the bytes within the word but big-endian for words
> within the longword?

Yes.  As I said in the very next paragraph,

> Conversion between PDP11-endian (0x87654321 stored as 0x65 0x87 0x21
> 0x43) and [...]

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Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Mouse]

>> Or how about architectures not using a word length that's an
>> integral number of bytes?
> You mean like any 36-bit machine?

No, they usually either ran as 6 6-bit bytes or 4 9-bit bytes, from
what I understand.  (The era of 36-bit machines was before "byte" had
drifted to its current synonymity with "octet".)

Byte sex is really an issue of conversion between numbers and their
serializations.  For example, it does not make sense to speak of the
number 2271560481 (0x87654321) having an endianness in its own right;
endianness becomes a meaningful concept only when a number is made up
of smaller units with some kind of ordering among themselves.  Most
commonly these are memory-addressing units, with the order being
increasing address order, but the terminology can also be used when,
for exmaple, discussing serializing bits onto a bit-serial transmission
medium, with the order being transmission order (eg, when sending
characters over a serial line).

To address the comment, I don't know enough about any of the 36-bit
machines to know whether they had sub-36-bit-word addressing or any
such, which would be necessary for concepts such as endianness to make
sense.  I think at least one early (by modern standards) machine
supported addressing memory as if it were an array of bits, extracting
an arbitrary block of those bits not longer than a machine word; if
true, that addressing order would induce an endianness

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Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5

[mark]

least.. but yeah.. might be impossible to ever really know.  I'm just
wondering why the price jumped to $40+ each all of a sudden!



a very large number of schlock IC sellers all communicate with each
other.  They all have a continuous stream of wants or needs that they
exchange.  but they make their own prices.  The probability is that you
may have hit the original stocking guy with your first query.  Querying
any others will result in them looking at the wants that others shared,
or buys, and he saw someone else had it and quoted you the same info.


It takes surprisingly little to trigger this effect/behavior.  I did a bulk 
buy of some 1960's era miniature vacuum tubes (500 pcs) for around 50 cents 
each; the next time I looked, the price from all vendors who had them had 
jumped to around $3, and it's up to $6 now.  (Fortunately the vendor I 
purchased from originally extended approximately his original pricing to me 
again.)  I think I was - and still am - virtually the only volume buyer of 
these parts, but the price remains high.  I've also had the same experience 
with other vintage new-old-stock parts.

~~
Mark Moulding

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Charles Anthony]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Dave Wade  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David
> > Bridgham
> > Sent: 05 December 2016 18:37
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > 
> > Subject: Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]
> >
> > On 12/05/2016 12:17 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> >
> > > Or how about architectures not using a word length that's an integral
> > > number of bytes?
> >
> > You mean like any 36-bit machine?
>
> Honeywell L66 & DPS8 used to have 36 bit words which originally contained 6
> x 6-bit characters.
> When they extended the machines to work with ASCII they put 4 x 9-bit
> characters which I seem to
> remember they called 9-bit bytes..
>
> Yes; the Extended Instruction set handles 4*9bit, 6*6bit, 8*4bit (with the
4 padding bits scattered through the word).

>From memory:

PDP-10: 36 bit word, 5*7bit characters.

PDP-15: 18 bit word, but it was so long ago, I don't remember

CDC 6000: 60 bit word, 10 six bit characters.

PDP11 "middle endian" see "NUXI problem:
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/M/middle-endian.html

PDP11 RADIX-50 3 characters packed into a 16 bit word; each character in a
0:39 set.

Back to Der Mouse question re: non-symmetrical mapping

hton and ntoh are not meant has generalized data conversion; they are
intended as network data packet field conversion; the domain of ntohl is a
32bit unsigned integer; the range is a host object larger enough to contain
all possible values.

For hosts that are base 2 and have word sizes that divide 32bits evenly,
 the functions would typically be identity  or bit rearrangement, and the
htonl and ntohl functions would be symmetric -- I suspect that a good
mathematician could 'prove' that cycle length is always 2 given the
constraints.

Cases like 36 bits words mean that htonl is "lossy"; it throws away bits
and and ntohl pads the result with 0s -- they are not symmetrical, thus the
answer to the order-2 cycle question is 'not applicable'

-- Charles

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Glen Slick]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Tony Duell  wrote:
>
> The HP1630 has HPIL as standard. IIRC you can configure it to either be
> remote-controlled over HPIB (when it will use HPIL for mass storage devices
> like this tape drive) or vice versa.
>
> But I seem to remember that there were several firmware revisions for
> these logic analysers and that some feautres were added later. You
> may need to 'acquire' a dump of the later ROMs...

Search for 1630 on http://www.ko4bb.com/ and there is a  "HP 1630A D
1631A D Logic Analyzer EPROM 14-Oct-1985-HP 1630A-D 1631A-D ROMs.zip"
file with these EPROM images, which is supposed to be the latest
version listed in the service manual for the 1630A, 1630D, 1631A,
1631D (but not compatible with the 1630G):

01630-80054
01630-80055
01630-80056
01630-80057
01630-80058
01630-80059
01630-80060
01630-80061

That version should have HP-IB mass storage device support instead of
HP-IL. Those are 16KB 27128 EPROM images. As far as I can tell from
the service manuals some of the early versions of the 1630 CPU boards
had 8KB 2764 EPROMs. I'm not sure if you could simply replace 2764
EPROMs on an early CPU with 27128 EPROMs. I don't know how the 1 of 8
chip enable decoding would work with both 8KB and 16KB parts.

Just because I already have more projects than time I am picking up a
1630D out of curiosity. From its serial number it might have an early
CPU board. When it arrives I'll have to see if it has 8KB EPROMs and
HP-IL vs HP-IB mass storage support and if it can be upgraded to the
16KB EPROM firmware.

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Glen Slick]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Holm Tiffe  wrote:
> I've heard from a friend that another friend that died in the menatime, had
> managed to copy HP9121 disks on a plain PC with something like Super Copy.

I tried using ImageDisk on a PC to read the two HP 1630 3.5-inch
floppies I have (10304 8085 preprocessor, 10342 HP-IB, RS-232C/V.24,
RS-449 preprocessor). It appeared to be able to read the expected data
just fine. Singled sided disk with 16 256-byte sectors per track
(sector numbers 0 - 15) and 70 tracks.

But it also seemed to detect a sector number 17 with no data in each
track. Is that a normal 9121 low level format? I haven't tried to
write a floppy back out using ImageDisk to see if the result is
readable on a 9121 drive.

I should also try hooking up a 9121 drive to a PC and see if HPDir
dumps the same binary data I get using ImageDisk.

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Tony Duell]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Holm Tiffe  wrote:
> Glen Slick wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Holm Tiffe  wrote:

>
> Interresting, I've don't even knew that such tape drives existed.

It's the little HPIL tape drive that was first used with the HP41
calculator.

> I'm interested in software for that thing, but it seems that I can't do
> much to be helpful here.
> I'll ask the friend from which I got the disk drive, maybe some tape
> drive existis additinally? I've read on wikipedia that the Tapes are
> HP-IL only but converters to HP-IB should exists..


The HP1630 has HPIL as standard. IIRC you can configure it to either be
remote-controlled over HPIB (when it will use HPIL for mass storage devices
like this tape drive) or vice versa.

But I seem to remember that there were several firmware revisions for
these logic analysers and that some feautres were added later. You
may need to 'acquire' a dump of the later ROMs...

-tony

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Holm Tiffe]

Holm Tiffe wrote:

> Glen Slick wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Holm Tiffe  wrote:
> > > Hi folks,
> > >
> > > I have an HP1631D Logic Analyzer for some years now und got an HP9121
> > > dual Floppy drive that fits to it yesterday.
> > > I've tested the drive, formating disks, storing and reading data ist
> > > working :-)
> > > While reading the Users Manual of the LA I've found out that besides of
> > > storing setup- and configuration data on the disk, there should some
> > > loadable disassemblers for the HP1631D exist on floppies..
> > >
> > > The Logic Analyzer is very limited from todays point of view but for
> > > example an Z80 disassembler where nice to have.
> > > Has someone out here such disassemblers (Z180, 8085, 8080, 6809 etc)
> > > for the HP1631D?
> > 
> > I have a 3.5-inch floppy part number 10342-13012 for the 10342B Bus
> > Preprocessor (HP-IB, RS-232C/V.24, RS-449) for HP1630A/D/G and 1631A/D
> > logic analyzers. I'll have to create an ImageDisk dump of that floppy.
> > 
> > I also have a tape somewhere if I can find it that is probably for the
> > either the 6800/6802 10307B (64672B) or 6809/6809E 10308B (64671A)
> > preprocessor if I remember correctly. I don't have an 82161A HP-IL
> > tape drive to try to read and dump that tape. If I find that tape I
> > should send it to someone with a working 82161A HP-IL tape drive and
> > the means to dump and archive that tape.
> 
> Interresting, I've don't even knew that such tape drives existed.
> I'm interested in software for that thing, but it seems that I can't do
> much to be helpful here.
> I'll ask the friend from which I got the disk drive, maybe some tape
> drive existis additinally? I've read on wikipedia that the Tapes are
> HP-IL only but converters to HP-IB should exists..
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Holm
..uh oh.. replied to the wrong post..so I'll append the rest here.

I would be very happy if I could get your disks dumps Glen.

TIA,

Holm
-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Holm Tiffe]

Glen Slick wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Holm Tiffe  wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I have an HP1631D Logic Analyzer for some years now und got an HP9121
> > dual Floppy drive that fits to it yesterday.
> > I've tested the drive, formating disks, storing and reading data ist
> > working :-)
> > While reading the Users Manual of the LA I've found out that besides of
> > storing setup- and configuration data on the disk, there should some
> > loadable disassemblers for the HP1631D exist on floppies..
> >
> > The Logic Analyzer is very limited from todays point of view but for
> > example an Z80 disassembler where nice to have.
> > Has someone out here such disassemblers (Z180, 8085, 8080, 6809 etc)
> > for the HP1631D?
> 
> I have a 3.5-inch floppy part number 10342-13012 for the 10342B Bus
> Preprocessor (HP-IB, RS-232C/V.24, RS-449) for HP1630A/D/G and 1631A/D
> logic analyzers. I'll have to create an ImageDisk dump of that floppy.
> 
> I also have a tape somewhere if I can find it that is probably for the
> either the 6800/6802 10307B (64672B) or 6809/6809E 10308B (64671A)
> preprocessor if I remember correctly. I don't have an 82161A HP-IL
> tape drive to try to read and dump that tape. If I find that tape I
> should send it to someone with a working 82161A HP-IL tape drive and
> the means to dump and archive that tape.

Interresting, I've don't even knew that such tape drives existed.
I'm interested in software for that thing, but it seems that I can't do
much to be helpful here.
I'll ask the friend from which I got the disk drive, maybe some tape
drive existis additinally? I've read on wikipedia that the Tapes are
HP-IL only but converters to HP-IB should exists..

Regards,

Holm
-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

Re: Double Buffer RK11-C

[Noel Chiappa]

> look at the lower right line of lights on the panel: ... and three bits
> of Major State; now look at the RK11-C prints, connector B32:
> ... Postamble, Checksum, Data, Header, Preamble.
> ...
> One thing I have been wondering about is that "RK11-C" - that implies
> that there was a -B, etc. I wonder if this panel goes with one of them?

Well, now that I look at a few more things I'm pretty certain the panel in
that image goes with some currently-unknown RK11 predecessor to the RK11-C.

Note those 5 'state' lines/lights, and then look at the 'Major States' RK11-C
print (RK11-C-04, pg. 14 of the PDF version, RK11-C Enginering Drawings
Feb1971). In the upper left corner there are a row of 6 flops, each labeled
with one of those states (plus one for 'Idle'), arranged in a chain. So one
light for the output of each flop...

Now look at that display panel: 3 bits for 'Major State' - implying it is
binary coded - likely implemented with a counter?

Notice also the signal "COUNT MSR" ('Major State Register', I expect) - just
what you'd expect to see if the major state had previously been held in a
counter, not a string of flops.  Why go to all the trouble to synthesize that
signal (on the next page, RK11-C-05, "MSR Control") when you cou;d have used
the individual composing signals to clock each flop?

So my _guess_ is that in the previous version, they'd used a counter, but had
had some problems (perhaps it was a binary counter, not Gray code, and the
decoding into states was producing glitches), and had therefore switched to
the string of flops.

(This whole process makes me feel like a paleontologist, reconstructing some
unknown dinosaur from a fragment of one bone, using a lot of complex reasoning
from small clues contained therein! :-)


It would be most interesting to know if there are any signs anywhere of
predecessors to the RK11-C.

My suspicion is that they were produced in very small numbers - perhaps as
prototypes, only internal to DEC. (If they'd had problems with glitches in the
major state counter, they would not have wanted to release it as a product.)
Or if it was released as a product, perhaps they were all recalled and
replaced with RK11-C's because of the issues.

As evidence for this, I point to the Spare Module Handbook, which lists only
the RK11-C and -D - but _does_ list the KT11-B, a rara avis indeed. (More
dinosaur bones... :-) This argues that the predecessor did not exist in the
wild...

 Noel

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[Holm Tiffe]

JP Hindin wrote:

> 
> 
> On Sat, 3 Dec 2016, Holm Tiffe wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I have an HP1631D Logic Analyzer for some years now und got an HP9121
> > dual Floppy drive that fits to it yesterday.
> > I've tested the drive, formating disks, storing and reading data ist
> > working :-)
> > While reading the Users Manual of the LA I've found out that besides of
> > storing setup- and configuration data on the disk, there should some
> > loadable disassemblers for the HP1631D exist on floppies..
> >
> > The Logic Analyzer is very limited from todays point of view but for
> > example an Z80 disassembler where nice to have.
> > Has someone out here such disassemblers (Z180, 8085, 8080, 6809 etc)
> > for the HP1631D?
> 
> Hey Holm;
> 
> I'm _pretty sure_ I have the Z80 disassembler for the 1630. I have a 1630G 
> and a 9121, but unfortunately I was never able to get the 1631 to talk to 
> the 9121 - I don't know if the drive was bad as I have no other way to 
> test it.
> 
> Has anyone else gotten you an image of this? if not I can try and figure 
> out a way to image it.
> 
>   - JP

No, I don't have gotten something off list jet.
I've heard from a friend that another friend that died in the menatime, had
managed to copy HP9121 disks on a plain PC with something like Super Copy.
The drive was used on some HP Computer that controlled a PCB assembly
system from Siemens in his case and that is from where my Drive is
coming from.
Additionally I've read somewhere that it should be possible to write
such disks on Linux with some utils, but I haven't had the time jet to do
some experiments myself.
I have an FreeBSD Computer with 3,5 and 5,25 inch floppy drives in the
same room as the 1631D, maybe I could try this tomorrow.

What's the problem with your drive? Set the Drives Address to 2, this is
the default and check the peripherals menu again it the drive could be
found. I've fiddeled around for some time until I got it going...

Regards,

Holm
-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

RE: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David
> Bridgham
> Sent: 05 December 2016 18:37
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]
> 
> On 12/05/2016 12:17 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> 
> > Or how about architectures not using a word length that's an integral
> > number of bytes?
> 
> You mean like any 36-bit machine?

Honeywell L66 & DPS8 used to have 36 bit words which originally contained 6
x 6-bit characters. 
When they extended the machines to work with ASCII they put 4 x 9-bit
characters which I seem to
remember they called 9-bit bytes..

Dave

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[David Bridgham]

On 12/05/2016 11:51 AM, Mouse wrote:
>> Middle-endian FTW
> That makes me wonder: was there any hardware that used an endianness
> such that conversion didn't loop with period 2?

Not quite the same thing but weren't longwords on the PDP-11
little-endian for the bytes within the word but big-endian for words
within the longword?

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[David Bridgham]

On 12/05/2016 12:17 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

> Or how about architectures not using a word length that's an integral
> number of bytes?

You mean like any 36-bit machine?

Re: Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/05/2016 08:51 AM, Mouse wrote:

> 
> Little- and big-endian do this; conversion between them is 
> byteswapping, which is self-inverse.  Conversion between
> PDP11-endian (0x87654321 stored as 0x65 0x87 0x21 0x43) and either
> big- or little-endian is also self-inverse.  Is there any hardware
> for which conversion between its native storage format and any of
> these three is not self-inverse?  To put it another way, and rather
> more loosely, is there one for which htonl and ntohl are actually
> different operations?

Decimal machines, such as the 1620 and 1401?  Of course, these aren't
word-oriented machines either, but variable-length systems.   Conversion
between either of those and your VAX is not simply a matter of
byte-swapping.

Or how about architectures not using a word length that's an integral
number of bytes?

--Chuck

Odd "endianness" [was Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list]

[Mouse]

>> Little-endian!!!
> Middle-endian FTW

That makes me wonder: was there any hardware that used an endianness
such that conversion didn't loop with period 2?

Little- and big-endian do this; conversion between them is
byteswapping, which is self-inverse.  Conversion between PDP11-endian
(0x87654321 stored as 0x65 0x87 0x21 0x43) and either big- or
little-endian is also self-inverse.  Is there any hardware for which
conversion between its native storage format and any of these three is
not self-inverse?  To put it another way, and rather more loosely, is
there one for which htonl and ntohl are actually different operations?

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list

[Liam Proven]

On 5 December 2016 at 15:35, Cameron Kaiser  wrote:
> emacs sucks!

I agree. So does Vi.

> *waits patiently*

There, does that help? :-)

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
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Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list

[Diane Bruce]

On Mon, Dec 05, 2016 at 07:36:19AM -0800, Charles Anthony wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:35 AM, Cameron Kaiser  wrote:
> 
> > > > Thanks for the suggestion. My delivery was set to MIME, I have changed
> > it
> > > > to plain text. Hopefully that will solve the problem.
> > >
> > > What?  No format flame war?  What's this world coming to?
> >
> > emacs sucks!
> >
> > *waits patiently*
> >
> > --
> >
> 
> Little-endian!!!

Middle-endian FTW


> ]
> -- Charles
> 

-- Diane
-- 
- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db

Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list

[Charles Anthony]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:35 AM, Cameron Kaiser  wrote:

> > > Thanks for the suggestion. My delivery was set to MIME, I have changed
> it
> > > to plain text. Hopefully that will solve the problem.
> >
> > What?  No format flame war?  What's this world coming to?
>
> emacs sucks!
>
> *waits patiently*
>
> --
>

Little-endian!!!
]
-- Charles

Re: RE: Base 64 posts to the list

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > Thanks for the suggestion. My delivery was set to MIME, I have changed it
> > to plain text. Hopefully that will solve the problem.
>
> What?  No format flame war?  What's this world coming to?

emacs sucks!

*waits patiently*

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Marry me and I'll never look at another horse! -- Groucho Marx -

Re: HP1631D Logic Analyzer..Software???

[JP Hindin]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2016, Holm Tiffe wrote:

Hi folks,

I have an HP1631D Logic Analyzer for some years now und got an HP9121
dual Floppy drive that fits to it yesterday.
I've tested the drive, formating disks, storing and reading data ist
working :-)
While reading the Users Manual of the LA I've found out that besides of
storing setup- and configuration data on the disk, there should some
loadable disassemblers for the HP1631D exist on floppies..

The Logic Analyzer is very limited from todays point of view but for
example an Z80 disassembler where nice to have.
Has someone out here such disassemblers (Z180, 8085, 8080, 6809 etc)
for the HP1631D?


Hey Holm;

I'm _pretty sure_ I have the Z80 disassembler for the 1630. I have a 1630G 
and a 9121, but unfortunately I was never able to get the 1631 to talk to 
the 9121 - I don't know if the drive was bad as I have no other way to 
test it.


Has anyone else gotten you an image of this? if not I can try and figure 
out a way to image it.


 - JP

Re: Looking for small quantity of grip rings for Boxer fans

[jim stephens]

On 12/4/2016 8:21 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:

Has anyone had to buy grip rings for their fan refurbs before?  Do
these numbers sound right?
Car door last saturday.  Home Depot hardware, no, Ace hardware selection 
had the E-clips we needed in that case.  The ring had disintegrated off 
the end of my drivers side lock cylinder, and the wire and lever was 
dangling loose, and the key turned freely outside.  Not so good.  Had no 
idea what it was.  called Dodge, they said we don't know what 13 year 
old cars had in them, try e-clips. Still working now.


Ace had a lot of stuff available by the piece, very reasonable.  In my 
experience Lowe's also had a good collection, but I wasn't doing the 
repair (paid a friend to pull the door of who worked for Toyota 
dealership and did it for a living).


thanks
Jim

Re: FTGH: HP 100/150 Series Memory Boards (45632, 45631)

[Hugh Blemings]

Hi,

These boards appear to have found a new home, thank you for the interest.

Cheers,
Hugh