Re: AT 3B2 UNIX System V User Reference Manual for sale

[Jerry Kemp]

Seth,

Is this something you might need/want that could assist you moving forward with 
your 3b2 emulation project?


Jerry




On 02/13/17 02:43 PM, Jack Bader wrote:

AT 3B2 Computer UNIX System V User Reference Manual

Original red  hardcover, 3-ring binder,  9"x9"x2" Published July 1985

Excellent condition, never used

Best offer plus $10 for shipping.

Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[Chuck Guzis]

On 02/13/2017 05:32 PM, Paul Koning wrote:

> I have a hand tool from OK Tools (looks a bit like a coil alignment 
> tool).  It works fine.  It also has a wire strip blade built into
> the handle, which is by far the best tool for stripping wrap wire. 
> (Typical wire strippers don't handle wire that thin, and the tip of
> a soldering iron won't do the job either because the insulation is
> heat resistant.)


Way back when Fry's had just opened in Sunnyvale, I was told about a
tool made by Augat, called "Micro Strip".  I've seen them with the Utica
and Tyco brands also.  It's sold by "Micro Strip" now.

http://micro-strip.com/awg-fine-wire.html

You can't go wrong with this tool--in all the years I've used it, I have
never nicked an AWG 30 wire. It also does a bang-up job with stripping
fiber jackets.   When wire-wrapping, it has a built-in adjustable stop
so that you always strip off a precise amount of insulation.

I can't recommend it highly enough.

--Chuck

Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[Randy Dawson]

You can use the solderless board prototype board jumpers, sold at Frys and 
elsewhere.  They come in male and female, I assume (not being a dec guy) that 
these are standard square wire wrap posts...



From: cctech  on behalf of william degnan 

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 3:59 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Earl Evans  wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I've got a couple of DEC QBUS boards (including a quad SLU) for which
> configuration is set by wire-wrap jumpers. I don't have a wire-wrap tool,
> and have found that trying this by hand without one is not workable.
>
> Has anyone come up with a clever way to permit reconfiguration of these
> boards without semi-permanent changes? Or, alternatively, what wire-wrap
> tool would you recommend?
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Earl
>

alligator clips?

Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[Jerry Weiss]

> On Feb 13, 2017, at 7:29 PM, allison  wrote:
> 
> On 02/13/2017 06:45 PM, Earl Evans wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> I've got a couple of DEC QBUS boards (including a quad SLU) for which
>> configuration is set by wire-wrap jumpers. I don't have a wire-wrap tool,
>> and have found that trying this by hand without one is not workable.
>> 
>> Has anyone come up with a clever way to permit reconfiguration of these
>> boards without semi-permanent changes? Or, alternatively, what wire-wrap
>> tool would you recommend?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> - Earl
>> 
> 
> I use wirewrap as the spacing and distance between boards does not
> permit anything else.
> OK too makes a good simple hand tool and more elaborate ones as needed. 
> Its worth the
> tool even if you go with the simple hand tool that looks sorta like a
> screwdriver. 
> 
> Keep in mind with Qbus unless you insert grant cards you can't double
> space boards.
> 
> I only have  8 Qbus systems from LSI-11 through MicroVAX. 
> 
> Allison



There are two common types of wirewrap - Regular and Modified.  

The “modified” wirewrap  tool leaves an insulated turn at the start of
the wrap.  It’s my preference when wire-wrapping 30 gauge or
if you run the wires off board.  Suggest 24 or 26 gauge for the latter.

Make sure you match the wire and tool.  

Jerry 

Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[jim stephens]

On 2/13/2017 4:09 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:


From: cctech [cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Earl Evans 
[e...@retrobits.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 6:45 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

Hi there,

I've got a couple of DEC QBUS boards (including a quad SLU) for which
configuration is set by wire-wrap jumpers. I don't have a wire-wrap tool,
and have found that trying this by hand without one is not workable.

Has anyone come up with a clever way to permit reconfiguration of these
boards without semi-permanent changes? Or, alternatively, what wire-wrap
tool would you recommend?

__

I have a hlf dozen wirewrap tools laying around.  I have found little if any
difference in them.  Amazon has them for $10 to about $30 dollars. If it
matches the size wire your using the Radio Shack works fine for me.

bill


Takes a bit of time for these, but I'd try for one recommended by Bill 
or one of these:


New-OEM-Wire-Wrap-Strip-Unwrap-Tool-Hand-Manual-Winding-Rods-For-WSU-30M-AWG-30-/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262798514618

30 gauge, so if you want to use the stripper, that size wire will be 
needed.  They used to have
them with semi safe to use strippers for other sizes.  If you are really 
worried, get NoNics strippers

if you can find them.

Thanks
Jim

Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[Paul Koning]

> On Feb 13, 2017, at 8:29 PM, allison  wrote:
> 
> ...
> I use wirewrap as the spacing and distance between boards does not
> permit anything else.
> OK too makes a good simple hand tool and more elaborate ones as needed. 

I have a hand tool from OK Tools (looks a bit like a coil alignment tool).  It 
works fine.  It also has a wire strip blade built into the handle, which is by 
far the best tool for stripping wrap wire.  (Typical wire strippers don't 
handle wire that thin, and the tip of a soldering iron won't do the job either 
because the insulation is heat resistant.)

paul

Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[Antonio Carlini]

On 14/02/17 00:04, Earl Evans wrote:

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 3:59 PM, william degnan 
wrote:


alligator clips?


​At least in my case, the spacing seemed too tight for alligator clips.
There are components surrounding the wire-wrap posts, so the clips don't
lay down well. Also, you can't have the clips pointing up, because then
there isn't enough top-clearance for the QBUS board in the slot above.​

Maybe there's another type of clip I could use, or a different technique?


Hand operated wirewrap tools seem to be ~ £10 new on ebay in the UK.
I assume they are similarly cheap in the US.

If you try some alternative technique don't you risk ending up with 
stray wires in powered equipment?


Antonio

--
Antonio Carlini
arcarl...@iee.org

Re: Information Request: unidentified HP 9825T instructions

[Pete Lancashire]

I agree quite a unique bit of code

On Feb 13, 2017 4:07 PM, "Noel Chiappa"  wrote:

> From: Tony Duell

> My first thought, and it's probably wrong

Apparently not... :-)

> these instrucitons (which differ by one bit, so might be
> setting/reseting something) are NOPs to the CPU, but are interpretted
> by the memory mapping hardware

Ooh, very clever/cool.

Noel

Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 2/13/2017 7:04 PM, Earl Evans wrote:

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 3:59 PM, william degnan
wrote:


alligator clips?


​At least in my case, the spacing seemed too tight for alligator clips.
There are components surrounding the wire-wrap posts, so the clips don't
lay down well. Also, you can't have the clips pointing up, because then
there isn't enough top-clearance for the QBUS board in the slot above.​

Maybe there's another type of clip I could use, or a different technique?


No, you don't use clips.  You wire wrap them, as they are designed for.  
What exactly is the challenge with doing that?

RE: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[Bill Gunshannon]

From: cctech [cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Earl Evans 
[e...@retrobits.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 6:45 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

Hi there,

I've got a couple of DEC QBUS boards (including a quad SLU) for which
configuration is set by wire-wrap jumpers. I don't have a wire-wrap tool,
and have found that trying this by hand without one is not workable.

Has anyone come up with a clever way to permit reconfiguration of these
boards without semi-permanent changes? Or, alternatively, what wire-wrap
tool would you recommend?

__

I have a hlf dozen wirewrap tools laying around.  I have found little if any
difference in them.  Amazon has them for $10 to about $30 dollars. If it
matches the size wire your using the Radio Shack works fine for me.

bill

Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[william degnan]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Earl Evans  wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I've got a couple of DEC QBUS boards (including a quad SLU) for which
> configuration is set by wire-wrap jumpers. I don't have a wire-wrap tool,
> and have found that trying this by hand without one is not workable.
>
> Has anyone come up with a clever way to permit reconfiguration of these
> boards without semi-permanent changes? Or, alternatively, what wire-wrap
> tool would you recommend?
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Earl
>

alligator clips?

Re: Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[Earl Evans]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 3:59 PM, william degnan 
wrote:

>
> alligator clips?
>

​At least in my case, the spacing seemed too tight for alligator clips.
There are components surrounding the wire-wrap posts, so the clips don't
lay down well. Also, you can't have the clips pointing up, because then
there isn't enough top-clearance for the QBUS board in the slot above.​

Maybe there's another type of clip I could use, or a different technique?

Changing wire-wrap configurations on DEC circuit boards

[Earl Evans]

Hi there,

I've got a couple of DEC QBUS boards (including a quad SLU) for which
configuration is set by wire-wrap jumpers. I don't have a wire-wrap tool,
and have found that trying this by hand without one is not workable.

Has anyone come up with a clever way to permit reconfiguration of these
boards without semi-permanent changes? Or, alternatively, what wire-wrap
tool would you recommend?

Thanks!

- Earl

DATAC 1000

[william degnan]

Looking for a DATAC 1000 if anyone has one for sale or trade (or a site
with pictures).  This is a Philadelphia USA origin 6502 trainer.  I am
interested in it for the local history.
Thanks
Bill

AT 3B2 UNIX System V User Reference Manual for sale

[Jack Bader]

AT 3B2 Computer UNIX System V User Reference Manual

Original red  hardcover, 3-ring binder,  9"x9"x2" Published July 1985

Excellent condition, never used

Best offer plus $10 for shipping.

Re: Information Request: unidentified HP 9825T instructions

[Tony Duell]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Craig Ruff  wrote:
> Tony Duell wrote:
>> My first thought, and it's probably wrong, is that these instrucitons
>> (which differ by one bit, so might be
>> setting/reseting something) are NOPs to the CPU, but are interpretted
>> by the memory mapping hardware in those
>> 9825s that have more than 64K or RAM and ROM total.
>
> This seems likely.  According to your schematics, gate U47 detects the 
> pattern 0701xx.
>  This signal feeds into the U43c flipflop, which appears to latch the state 
> of the low 4 bits
> of the MAD bus into register U42, which sets the state of the /ForceRAM (bit 
> 3),
> /ForceROM (bit 2), /DiagRd (bit 1) and ALLROM (bit 0) signals.  Thus, these 
> two
> instructions appear to toggle the state of the /ForceROM signal.
>
> If I’ve wrapped my brain around the details it appears that 070113 deasserts 
> the
> /ForceROM signal, and 070117 asserts it?

That seems possible, yes.

Having other hardware decode instructions that appear as NOPs to the main
processor is not uncommon in HP machines.

-tony




>
>
>

Re: PDP 11 Line Time Clock (LW11L) M787 and EIS board, (KE11E) M7238

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Josh Dersch

> (while installing the MMU and Stack Limit Register in my own 11/40)

BTW, I think I found out why the MMU requires the SLR. The SLR is not
operative in User mode. I haven't checked out the circuitry to see exactly
what the interaction is, but it has to be something associated with that.

> you *will* need an LTC to run V6 UNIX

Actually, it will work with a KW11-P, too; those are actually more commmon
than the KW11-L's, I've found. But as Guy pointed out, the DL11-W will do too
- and those are _very_ common (since they were used in the 11/34's, etc).

Noel

Re: Information Request: unidentified HP 9825T instructions

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Tony Duell

> My first thought, and it's probably wrong

Apparently not... :-)

> these instrucitons (which differ by one bit, so might be
> setting/reseting something) are NOPs to the CPU, but are interpretted
> by the memory mapping hardware 

Ooh, very clever/cool.

Noel

Re: Information Request: unidentified HP 9825T instructions

[Craig Ruff]

Tony Duell wrote:
> My first thought, and it's probably wrong, is that these instrucitons
> (which differ by one bit, so might be
> setting/reseting something) are NOPs to the CPU, but are interpretted
> by the memory mapping hardware in those
> 9825s that have more than 64K or RAM and ROM total.

This seems likely.  According to your schematics, gate U47 detects the pattern 
0701xx.  This signal feeds into the U43c flipflop, which appears to latch the 
state of the low 4 bits of the MAD bus into register U42, which sets the state 
of the /ForceRAM (bit 3), /ForceROM (bit 2), /DiagRd (bit 1) and ALLROM (bit 0) 
signals.  Thus, these two instructions appear to toggle the state of the 
/ForceROM signal.

If I’ve wrapped my brain around the details it appears that 070113 deasserts 
the /ForceROM signal, and 070117 asserts it?

Re: PDP 11 Line Time Clock (LW11L) M787 and EIS board, (KE11E) M7238

[Josh Dersch]

On 2/13/17 8:16 AM, william degnan wrote:


Question - I am working on a PDP 11 KE11E M7238 EIS board (for PDP 11/40)
which causes the CPU to crash when installed; front panel not responsive,
can't boot XXDP.  I installed a removable jumper so I can flip jumper
configs back and forth between EIS installed/not installed.  Without the
EIS the system works fine, can boot OS's that do not require it like RT11.

As discussed before the EIS is required if I want to boot up UNIX 6 on the
11/40, which is a goal of mine.

Thought - I don't have a LW11L, M787 installed.  This is a the Line TIme
Clock option card.  Do you think that maybe the EIS board requires this for
some reason, even though there are no references to this as a requirement
in any docs I can find?  Maybe the docs writers assume it's installed?  I
only wonder because any time I have seen the M7238 installed in an 11/40 I
have also seen a M787.

I could swap out the current 11/40 backplane with a backplane that has the
jumpers for the M787 already removed, but I only want to do this if it's
necessary.  When we were talking before I neglected to mention I had no
M787, you may have assumed I did.


I think it's extremely unlikely that the EIS requires an LTC to 
function, I can't think of any reason why this would be the case, or why 
it would cause the effects you're seeing.  I also don't recall seeing 
any such requirements in the hardware documentation, but it's been a 
little while since I last looked at them (while installing the MMU and 
Stack Limit Register in my own 11/40).


Can you be more detailed in your description of the behavior you're 
seeing?  Is the system unresponsive at power-up, or is it only after 
attempting to boot that it "crashes"?  Can you toggle in programs and 
run them?


I'll also add that regardless of what's going on  with your EIS, you 
*will* need an LTC to run V6 UNIX so you might think about getting one 
set up anyway.


- Josh





Bill

Re: PDP 11 Line Time Clock (LW11L) M787 and EIS board, (KE11E) M7238

[Guy Sotomayor Jr]

If you have a M7856 which is a SLU and LTC on one board you don’t need an
M787.

I assume that they you have the EIS board installed, you have the 3 jumper
cables between the EIS and the uCode board.

KM11s will help in diagnosing these issues as it allows you to single step
through the uCode.

TTFN - Guy

> On Feb 13, 2017, at 8:16 AM, william degnan  wrote:
> 
> Question - I am working on a PDP 11 KE11E M7238 EIS board (for PDP 11/40)
> which causes the CPU to crash when installed; front panel not responsive,
> can't boot XXDP.  I installed a removable jumper so I can flip jumper
> configs back and forth between EIS installed/not installed.  Without the
> EIS the system works fine, can boot OS's that do not require it like RT11.
> 
> As discussed before the EIS is required if I want to boot up UNIX 6 on the
> 11/40, which is a goal of mine.
> 
> Thought - I don't have a LW11L, M787 installed.  This is a the Line TIme
> Clock option card.  Do you think that maybe the EIS board requires this for
> some reason, even though there are no references to this as a requirement
> in any docs I can find?  Maybe the docs writers assume it's installed?  I
> only wonder because any time I have seen the M7238 installed in an 11/40 I
> have also seen a M787.
> 
> I could swap out the current 11/40 backplane with a backplane that has the
> jumpers for the M787 already removed, but I only want to do this if it's
> necessary.  When we were talking before I neglected to mention I had no
> M787, you may have assumed I did.
> 
> 
> 
> Bill

Re: PDP 11 Line Time Clock (LW11L) M787 and EIS board, (KE11E) M7238

[william degnan]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Josh Dersch  wrote:

> On 2/13/17 8:16 AM, william degnan wrote:
>
> Question - I am working on a PDP 11 KE11E M7238 EIS board (for PDP 11/40)
>> which causes the CPU to crash when installed; front panel not responsive,
>> can't boot XXDP.  I installed a removable jumper so I can flip jumper
>> configs back and forth between EIS installed/not installed.  Without the
>> EIS the system works fine, can boot OS's that do not require it like RT11.
>>
>> As discussed before the EIS is required if I want to boot up UNIX 6 on the
>> 11/40, which is a goal of mine.
>>
>> Thought - I don't have a LW11L, M787 installed.  This is a the Line TIme
>> Clock option card.  Do you think that maybe the EIS board requires this
>> for
>> some reason, even though there are no references to this as a requirement
>> in any docs I can find?  Maybe the docs writers assume it's installed?  I
>> only wonder because any time I have seen the M7238 installed in an 11/40 I
>> have also seen a M787.
>>
>> I could swap out the current 11/40 backplane with a backplane that has the
>> jumpers for the M787 already removed, but I only want to do this if it's
>> necessary.  When we were talking before I neglected to mention I had no
>> M787, you may have assumed I did.
>>
>
> I think it's extremely unlikely that the EIS requires an LTC to function,
> I can't think of any reason why this would be the case, or why it would
> cause the effects you're seeing.  I also don't recall seeing any such
> requirements in the hardware documentation, but it's been a little while
> since I last looked at them (while installing the MMU and Stack Limit
> Register in my own 11/40).
>
> Can you be more detailed in your description of the behavior you're
> seeing?  Is the system unresponsive at power-up, or is it only after
> attempting to boot that it "crashes"?  Can you toggle in programs and run
> them?
>
> I'll also add that regardless of what's going on  with your EIS, you
> *will* need an LTC to run V6 UNIX so you might think about getting one set
> up anyway.
>
> - Josh
>
>
>>

thanks for confirming.  I will turn my attention to the EIS board and set
up a more detailed test/results asap.
Bil

Re: PDP 11 Line Time Clock (LW11L) M787 and EIS board, (KE11E) M7238

[william degnan]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Noel Chiappa 
wrote:

> > From: William Degnan
>
> > PDP 11 KE11E M7238 EIS board (for PDP 11/40) which causes the CPU to
> > crash when installed; front panel not responsive
> > ...
> > I installed a removable jumper so I can flip jumper configs back and
> > forth between EIS installed/not installed. Without the EIS the system
> > works fine
>
> To understand this symptom, one needs to understand how the EIS interacts
> with the main CPU. Both include microcode, and what is supposed to happen
> is
> that when an EIS instruction happens, control is passed to the microcode on
> the EIS board (the actual microcode words being fed back to the main CPU
> through those three over-the-back jumper cables). The microcode on the EIS
> board can then control the data paths, etc in the main CPU, to feed the EIS
> data, and take back the results of the computation performed on the EIS
> card.
>
> I'm trying to understand what W1 does, but I'm not there yet. It's shown on
> the KD11-A print K3-8 (pg. 48), in the lower left corner, but its effects
> are
> somewhat obscure.
>
> To start with, the array of odd chips E6-E7 (74H60's) and E17 (74H53) are
> expandable AND-OR gates. I'd never seen these before, but the lines running
> to and from pins 11 and 12 on the 'H53 join the other three gates below it
> into it - i.e. that whole array of AND gates all feed into one NOR gate
> (output on pin 8 of the 'H53).
>
> So far, so good, but from there I'm still lost. When W1 is inserted (no
> EIS)
> it grounds the signal ECIN00, which comes in from off-board (as shown by
> the
> "A05S2", which is the pin it arrives on). The output of that giant NOR gate
> is CIN00, which is immediately sent off-board (pin 'A05P1'). I have yet to
> try and chase these signals down, and work out what they do; the KD11-A
> Tech
> Manual is fairly cryptic on the subject.
>
> Note also that, IIRC, the front console operates under control of
> microcode.
>
> So I'm _guessing_ that what is happening is that somehow the EIS is, when
> enabled, messing up the operation of the microcode in the main CPU, causing
> it to freeze.
>
>
>
>
Probably would not be a bad idea to test the cable and the connectors as
well as the board.  There could also be a fault with the UWord module
(M7232) associated with signal processing too.

Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!

[Liam Proven]

On 13 February 2017 at 19:10, Fred Cisin  wrote:
> THAT is apparently why USB-C was developed.   it is symmetrical.


Well, it's not _only_ that, but it's part of it.

Apple led the way with its symmetrical Lightning connector:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector)

This introduced millions of customers to a USB-sized single plug for
data, audio & power that could go into its socket either way. That
"primed the pump".

Then a design student published a, well, um, a design for a USB plug
that could go in either way:

http://dornob.com/double-sided-usb-solves-painfully-universal-design-problem/

This was widely admired and discussed, or as they say now, "went
viral". I think some companies implemented it but it violates the USB
formal spec.

(Not that that bothers the cheapo vendors -- e.g. I have both external
hard disks and a laptop cooling stand that both take a USB *A* to *A*
cable. I.e. the computer-end connector on both ends. This is highly
illegal -- you could connect 2 computers directly and blow at least
one of them up thereby -- but nobody enforces the rules.)

The bi-directional plug and Lightning both demonstrated that this was
desirable, possible, and that there was demand.

Also, there were the bodges of USB 3 extensions to the micro-USB spec
such as this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#/media/File:Connector_USB_3_IMGP6033_wp.jpg

... and this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#/media/File:USB-3.0-Stecker_(Typ_B).jpg

And commentary such as this:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/5/4696874/galaxy-note-3-usb-3-0-power-connector-explained

Sort of Siamese-twin double connectors -- big and ugly and a very
visible kludge.

Something Had To Be Done.

USB C is the result.

And although owners and prospective owners of the new MacBook Pro
laptops are complaining widely that they *only* have USB-C ports, it's
actually a good thing, IMHO.

As this eloquently explains:

https://medium.com/@ageitgey/the-new-macbook-pro-is-kind-of-great-for-hackers-64c1c577a4d2#.bfca5smcu

The higher-end MacBook Pro has 4 of them -- *and nothing else*.

You can plug the power cable into any of them. Doesn't matter. Plug a
display in to any of them. Doesn't matter. Phone, memory stick, wired
network cable, docking station. Any port. Doesn't matter.

Plug the power supply into the MacBook, the MacBook charges. Plug the
same cable into your phone, the phone charges. Plug the phone into the
MacBook -- same cable -- the phone charges and syncs.

I really like the idea of a small silent computer that's got a bunch
of ports and anything plugs into anything. 2 or 3 screens? Just works.
Sync several phones? Just works. Where's the power socket? There isn't
one. Plug it in anywhere. If it fits, it works, either way round.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: PDP 11 Line Time Clock (LW11L) M787 and EIS board, (KE11E) M7238

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: William Degnan

> PDP 11 KE11E M7238 EIS board (for PDP 11/40) which causes the CPU to
> crash when installed; front panel not responsive
> ...
> I installed a removable jumper so I can flip jumper configs back and
> forth between EIS installed/not installed. Without the EIS the system
> works fine

To understand this symptom, one needs to understand how the EIS interacts
with the main CPU. Both include microcode, and what is supposed to happen is
that when an EIS instruction happens, control is passed to the microcode on
the EIS board (the actual microcode words being fed back to the main CPU
through those three over-the-back jumper cables). The microcode on the EIS
board can then control the data paths, etc in the main CPU, to feed the EIS
data, and take back the results of the computation performed on the EIS card.

I'm trying to understand what W1 does, but I'm not there yet. It's shown on
the KD11-A print K3-8 (pg. 48), in the lower left corner, but its effects are
somewhat obscure.

To start with, the array of odd chips E6-E7 (74H60's) and E17 (74H53) are
expandable AND-OR gates. I'd never seen these before, but the lines running
to and from pins 11 and 12 on the 'H53 join the other three gates below it
into it - i.e. that whole array of AND gates all feed into one NOR gate
(output on pin 8 of the 'H53).

So far, so good, but from there I'm still lost. When W1 is inserted (no EIS)
it grounds the signal ECIN00, which comes in from off-board (as shown by the
"A05S2", which is the pin it arrives on). The output of that giant NOR gate
is CIN00, which is immediately sent off-board (pin 'A05P1'). I have yet to
try and chase these signals down, and work out what they do; the KD11-A Tech
Manual is fairly cryptic on the subject.

Note also that, IIRC, the front console operates under control of microcode.

So I'm _guessing_ that what is happening is that somehow the EIS is, when
enabled, messing up the operation of the microcode in the main CPU, causing
it to freeze.


> Thought - I don't have a LW11L, M787 installed. ... Do you think that
> maybe the EIS board requires this for some reason

No. I've looked at the KW11-L prints in the past, and it's just a very simple
UNIBUS device. I don't see any way it not being there could cause the
symptoms under discussion.

> I could swap out the current 11/40 backplane with a backplane that has
> the jumpers for the M787 already removed

I think it's only one jumper - for BG6, no?

> I neglected to mention I had no M787

To run Unix V6 you'll need either a KW11-L or KW11-P (see previous
discussion about how Unix needs a clock - both at a low level, because
it will panic() if it doesn't find one, and at a high level, because
even if we patch the panic, stuff won't 'work right' without one).

Noel

RE: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!

[Fred Cisin]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2017, W2HX wrote:
Thanks for doing this project and I have signed up! Curious why mini usb 
and why the exclamation points regarding "NOT micro?" Micro is so 
common. I have tons of usb-micro cables for all my devices. I don’t 
think I've seen a device made in the last several years with a mini. I 
have no mini usb cables, not that I can't purchase one, of course!


There are claims that MICRO-USB has better reliability, with many more 
insertion cycles than MINI-USB.


But, MICRO has more of a symmetry problem than MINI.  In poor light, it is 
easier to get MINI right-side-up than MICRO.

THAT is apparently why USB-C was developed.   it is symmetrical.
Apple has shown with "LIGHTNING", single button mouse, etc.,  that it is 
always safer to under-estimate the intelligence and abilities of your 
users.

Re: Trend HSR500 Paper Tape Reader manual

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On 2/13/2017 2:06 AM, Tony Duell wrote:

  I am not sure if anyone is interested, but I've scanned the manual
for the Trend
HSR500 and HSR500P optical paper tape readers. If I've got the
permissions right,
then you can get it from my google drive on :

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uNCTLB4VsqRU9TWDIzWnZYaU0

It's a large file, I don't think the scanner software has heard of
compression!. If anyone
can make it a more reasonable size, feel free...

This is a proper manual with schematics, parts lists, adjustment info, etc.

I've also scanned the circuit diagrams for the Trend Paper Tape Station, here

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uNCTLB4VsqemRFMnVNb0l5WU0

The Paper Tape Station is a rack unit containing an HSR500 reader, power supply,
GNT34 punch and a driver card for the punch. Those diagrams are for
the punch driver
and power supply, you need the HSR500 manual as well.

Let me know if it all works...

-tony



Thanks Tony!


I ran them through Acrobat's optimizer and put them up here: 
http://dvq.com/docs/Trend/


Much smaller, though slightly less clear.

Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!

[Ethan Dicks]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:34 AM, W2HX  wrote:
> Thanks for doing this project and I have signed up!

Me too.

> Curious why mini usb and why the exclamation points regarding "NOT micro?
> " Micro is so common. I have tons of usb-micro cables for all my devices. I 
> don’t
> think I've seen a device made in the last several years with a mini. I have 
> no mini
> usb cables, not that I can't purchase one, of course!

I was also slightly curious, but I have a pile of mini USB cables from
external drives, a ZipIt palmtop texting device, and even my
ZoomFloppy, so I'm all set there.  I don't mind a dedicated cable
sticking out of my PDP-8.

-ethan

RE: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!

[W2HX]

Thanks for doing this project and I have signed up! Curious why mini usb and 
why the exclamation points regarding "NOT micro?" Micro is so common. I have 
tons of usb-micro cables for all my devices. I don’t think I've seen a device 
made in the last several years with a mini. I have no mini usb cables, not that 
I can't purchase one, of course!

Eugene W2HX

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Philipp 
Hachtmann
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 10:00 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!

Hi folks,

it has taken a while but I'm now actively planning to shift out another batch 
of OmniUSB boards. The last batch is sold out for a long time and I've been 
asked for more from time to time.

As some of you might remember, it's a cool device to connect your pdp8/f/a/m/e 
to the modern world using lightning fast USB.

The originial board has it's website here:

http://pdp8.hachti.de/projects/omni_usb/

The new board will do the same, perhaps even more.

- the USB connector will be replaced by a mini (NOT micro!!) USB connector.
- The connector position and cable routing will be improved.
- The board will be shorter. But it will come by default with a laser cut 
acrylic extension that makes it full size again.

There will be at least those options to buy:

- Kit (board + all parts)
- Kit+ (board + all parts, SMT already assembled)

Possible:
- complete version - Everything soldered and tested.
- discount for omitting acrylic extender

I cannot guarantee that I can deliver fully assembled boards
(regulations) and would be able to do that only if there's a reasonable number 
of interested buyers.

If have set up a doodle poll to get a realistic picture of the interest in the 
board/kit/device:

http://doodle.com/poll/d7y524mvyfezqp9w

PLEASE take the minute and fill in your name (ideally that I can recognise you) 
and check the options which most precisely match your demands.

PLEASE be as honest as possible as I will base my decisions IF and for which 
PRICE I can run the show.

Thank you!!!

Kind regards

Philipp :-)

PDP 11 Line Time Clock (LW11L) M787 and EIS board, (KE11E) M7238

[william degnan]

Question - I am working on a PDP 11 KE11E M7238 EIS board (for PDP 11/40)
which causes the CPU to crash when installed; front panel not responsive,
can't boot XXDP.  I installed a removable jumper so I can flip jumper
configs back and forth between EIS installed/not installed.  Without the
EIS the system works fine, can boot OS's that do not require it like RT11.

As discussed before the EIS is required if I want to boot up UNIX 6 on the
11/40, which is a goal of mine.

Thought - I don't have a LW11L, M787 installed.  This is a the Line TIme
Clock option card.  Do you think that maybe the EIS board requires this for
some reason, even though there are no references to this as a requirement
in any docs I can find?  Maybe the docs writers assume it's installed?  I
only wonder because any time I have seen the M7238 installed in an 11/40 I
have also seen a M787.

I could swap out the current 11/40 backplane with a backplane that has the
jumpers for the M787 already removed, but I only want to do this if it's
necessary.  When we were talking before I neglected to mention I had no
M787, you may have assumed I did.



Bill

New batch of pdp8 OMNIBUS to USB interface! Please Read and react!

[Philipp Hachtmann]

Hi folks,

it has taken a while but I'm now actively planning to shift out another 
batch of OmniUSB boards. The last batch is sold out for a long time and 
I've been asked for more from time to time.


As some of you might remember, it's a cool device to connect your
pdp8/f/a/m/e to the modern world using lightning fast USB.

The originial board has it's website here:

http://pdp8.hachti.de/projects/omni_usb/

The new board will do the same, perhaps even more.

- the USB connector will be replaced by a mini (NOT micro!!) USB connector.
- The connector position and cable routing will be improved.
- The board will be shorter. But it will come by default with a laser 
cut acrylic extension that makes it full size again.


There will be at least those options to buy:

- Kit (board + all parts)
- Kit+ (board + all parts, SMT already assembled)

Possible:
- complete version - Everything soldered and tested.
- discount for omitting acrylic extender

I cannot guarantee that I can deliver fully assembled boards 
(regulations) and would be able to do that only if there's a reasonable 
number of interested buyers.


If have set up a doodle poll to get a realistic picture of the interest 
in the board/kit/device:


http://doodle.com/poll/d7y524mvyfezqp9w

PLEASE take the minute and fill in your name (ideally that I can 
recognise you) and check the options which most precisely match your 
demands.


PLEASE be as honest as possible as I will base my decisions IF and for 
which PRICE I can run the show.


Thank you!!!

Kind regards

Philipp :-)

Re: 8085 RAM testing program

[Adrian Graham]

On 13 February 2017 at 14:18, dwight  wrote:

> ook up March C.
>
> It is one of the most simple but thorough RAM test. It is
>
> the test most commonly used by manufactures.
>
> It only needs one address counter and unlike other
>
> is fast.
>
> The coding is simple
>

Cheers Dwight!


-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: 8085 RAM testing program

[dwight]

Look up March C.

It is one of the most simple but thorough RAM test. It is

the test most commonly used by manufactures.

It only needs one address counter and unlike other

is fast.

The coding is simple.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Adrian Graham 

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 3:03 AM
To: Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: 8085 RAM testing program

Hi folks,

I'm at the point of troubleshooting this 8085 board where I need to test all
the RAM.

The code loops at an IN looking forsomething. Based on other assembly
programs I've looked at the code is very similar to eg a disk controller
looking for a READY signal from a drive. Trouble is I have no idea what's
expected to be at I/O port 0xE3. If it was one of the peripheral chips I'd
expect a chip select line to go low. The 74LS139 that does chip select is OK
- I've tested it off-board and all traces going to it buzz out OK.

The code uses upper RAM as a scratch pad so what I'd like to do is replace
the $ ROM with an EPROM containing RAM test code. I've found incomplete
examples that need to be tailored so before I go reinventing the wheel has
anyone got a working example I can use? Warnings of things I should and
shouldn't do?

RAM is at $8000-$, and at least some of it is ok since the stack pointer
is up at 0xF0B3 and I can trace the code by watching which addresses it's
reading.

Cheers!

--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: Information Request: unidentified HP 9825T instructions

[Tony Duell]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Craig Ruff  wrote:
> I am working on the disassembly and commenting of the 98228A disk ROM for the 
> 9825T, and my disassembler
>  flagged two instructions as invalid.  They are used inside a routine that 
> copies blocks of words from various banks
> of the ROM into low RAM.  The first, bit pattern 070113, is used immediately 
> after a dir (disable interrupt) instruction.
>  The second, bit pattern 070117, is used immediately before an eir (enable 
> interrupt) instruction.  The “invalid”
> instructions do not match any instructions described in the 9825A patent, nor 
> are present in the 9835 or 9845
> assemblers instruction descriptions.  From the surrounding code, it doesn’t 
> appear that these instructions reference
> any of the user visible CPU registers, but are used in some way that enhances 
> the effect of dir/eir and ensures the
>  block copy is not interfered with.
>
> Anyone have any ideas?  Possibly a DMA request ignore/resume pair?

 My first thought, and it's probably wrong, is that these instrucitons
(which differ by one bit, so might be
setting/reseting something) are NOPs to the CPU, but are interpretted
by the memory mapping hardware in those
9825s that have more than 64K or RAM and ROM total.

Possibly to map in the RAM that's used for the destination.

-tony

8085 RAM testing program

[Adrian Graham]

Hi folks,

I'm at the point of troubleshooting this 8085 board where I need to test all
the RAM. 

The code loops at an IN looking forsomething. Based on other assembly
programs I've looked at the code is very similar to eg a disk controller
looking for a READY signal from a drive. Trouble is I have no idea what's
expected to be at I/O port 0xE3. If it was one of the peripheral chips I'd
expect a chip select line to go low. The 74LS139 that does chip select is OK
- I've tested it off-board and all traces going to it buzz out OK.

The code uses upper RAM as a scratch pad so what I'd like to do is replace
the $ ROM with an EPROM containing RAM test code. I've found incomplete
examples that need to be tailored so before I go reinventing the wheel has
anyone got a working example I can use? Warnings of things I should and
shouldn't do?

RAM is at $8000-$, and at least some of it is ok since the stack pointer
is up at 0xF0B3 and I can trace the code by watching which addresses it's
reading.

Cheers!

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Trend HSR500 Paper Tape Reader manual

[Tony Duell]

 I am not sure if anyone is interested, but I've scanned the manual
for the Trend
HSR500 and HSR500P optical paper tape readers. If I've got the
permissions right,
then you can get it from my google drive on :

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uNCTLB4VsqRU9TWDIzWnZYaU0

It's a large file, I don't think the scanner software has heard of
compression!. If anyone
can make it a more reasonable size, feel free...

This is a proper manual with schematics, parts lists, adjustment info, etc.

I've also scanned the circuit diagrams for the Trend Paper Tape Station, here

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uNCTLB4VsqemRFMnVNb0l5WU0

The Paper Tape Station is a rack unit containing an HSR500 reader, power supply,
GNT34 punch and a driver card for the punch. Those diagrams are for
the punch driver
and power supply, you need the HSR500 manual as well.

Let me know if it all works...

-tony

Re: need (physical) key for Sun SPARCserver 1000e

[alexmcwhirter]

On 2017-02-12 07:59, Philip Pemberton wrote:

On 09/02/17 20:06, Mark G Thomas wrote:

  http://files.markgthomas.com/dl/sunkey/

I thought maybe having a picture would help in finding the correct 
key.


A little part of me wants to get hold of one of these keys and the
matching lock, match it to a key blank and measure the bitting...

Cheers,


Am i wrong in thinking all sun keys are identical up until the E25K? 
Like i said earlier, my V890 key works in all my circa ~1990 sun gear. 
These keys are pretty easy to find on ebay (in the US anyways).


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sun-Fire-V880-Server-Bezel-Key-/272532177241?hash=item3f742f0159:g:8mgAAOSw5cNYhgUb
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUN-MICROSYSTEMS-KEYS-350-1651-01-/111613413055?hash=item19fcad86bf:m:mCTY6wGdWH6b9WiORB0DrhA