Re: Micral - France

2017-04-12 Thread Ed via cctalk
I like the MICRAL 808 computer... if you have never seen one folks check out this link! Ed# http://history-computer.com/ModernComputer/Personal/Micral.html In a message dated 4/12/2017 10:15:49 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: >From earlest

Micral - France

2017-04-12 Thread Murray McCullough via cctalk
>From earlest days: Here in France and saw a Micral…Now there’s a classic computer. Originated in 1973; 8008 :) :) Happy computing all! Murray :)

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread allison via cctalk
On 04/12/2017 05:33 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Sean Conner via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Yeah, I'm having a hard time with that too. I mean, pedantically, it >> should be: >> >> #include >> int main(void) { return

Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 04/12/2017 12:41 PM, Warner Losh via cctech wrote: > For you and me both. I was getting read errors on my RX-50, so I > tried to swap in a new drive, and now that's all I get as well. Guess > I'll have to figure out another way to get the Venix/86R disks > copied. Got a PC with a 5.25" HD

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread dwight via cctalk
I know most don't get it but I like Forth because it is easy to follow the program flow and easy to test. C has too much boilerplate to solve the problem of not being able to use white space to keep things organized. One uses Forth like a combination assembler and high level language. Most all

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread william degnan via cctalk
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 10:13 PM, Scott Kevill via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Descriptions are in French, but Google Translate works well enough. > > Model I Buffered EI Cable (40 to 40 pin): > http://prof-80.fr/carte-tandy-1700077-c/buffered-ei-cable >

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Scott Kevill via cctalk
Descriptions are in French, but Google Translate works well enough. Model I Buffered EI Cable (40 to 40 pin): http://prof-80.fr/carte-tandy-1700077-c/buffered-ei-cable http://prof-80.fr/carte-tandy-1700077-c/buffered-ei-cable/prototype-buffer-expansion (Schematics and Gerbers available) Model I

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Eric Smith via cctalk
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Sean Conner via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Yeah, I'm having a hard time with that too. I mean, pedantically, it > should be: > > #include > int main(void) { return EXIT_SUCCESS; } > > where EXIT_SUCCESS is 0 on every plaform

Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Stephen Pereira via cctalk
I’m glad to hear that you still have some possibilities there. I’ve go nothing on mine. I guess I’ll have to start looking for another RX-50 disk drive controller board. Since those are as scarce as the memory expansion boards, I’m not very hopeful. Guess it’ll be time to sell the parts on

Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Warner Losh via cctalk
Thanks! I have another experiment to try, but need some parts for that, so it will have to wait until they arrive. the unit has been a bit flakey this time, so I don't know if I need a new controller board, new RX-50 or a new power supply. Or a ROM refresh Warner On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:47

Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Stephen Pereira via cctalk
I guess it doesn’t make any difference now. I reassembled the computer and now I get a message 28 “RX50 Controller Board" failure during POST. I’ve taken it apart and put it back together several times, but I cannot clear the failure. This really has been a bad day! smp -- Stephen M. Pereira

Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Warner Losh via cctalk
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Stephen Pereira wrote: > Thanks for your response. > > Just to be certain, I just tore it all down and reconfirmed, in case my > memory was playing any tricks. > > I have a PC-100B with no expansion card. > > Thanks again for the advice.

Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Stephen Pereira via cctalk
Wow. Since misery loves company, I guess we make a great pair today! Good luck with your equipment! smp -- Stephen M. Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE > On Apr 12, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > For you and me both. I was getting read errors on my RX-50, so I

Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Warner Losh via cctalk
For you and me both. I was getting read errors on my RX-50, so I tried to swap in a new drive, and now that's all I get as well. Guess I'll have to figure out another way to get the Venix/86R disks copied. Warner On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Stephen Pereira wrote:

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: of which I don't know. It is a 40 pin to 50 pin ribbon cable with a black box connecting them that is labeled TANDY. I know of nothing the Tandy made that used a 50 pin connector other than a

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Kelly Leavitt via cctalk
> > So, I just picked up an MISE from Bartlett Labs (cause I really liked > > the M3SE I had) and decided to revive one of my TRS-80 MOdel I's. > > In my box of "stuff" I found an interesting ribbon cable the function > > of which I don't know.  It is a 40 pin to 50 pin ribbon cable with a > >

Re: Does anyone here know Siemens STL?

2017-04-12 Thread geneb via cctalk
On Wed, 12 Apr 2017, Adrian Stoness wrote: Modicon, ge faunic, Allen Bradly, Allen Heath, hewert Rand, Siemens, abb, idec, square d, some I know I'm forgeting You don't "program" an STL file. It's a 3D object layout for a 3D printed part. :) (also, don't top post!) g. -- Proud owner of

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Fred Cisin via cctalk
of which I don't know. It is a 40 pin to 50 pin ribbon cable with a black box connecting them that is labeled TANDY. I know of nothing the Tandy made that used a 50 pin connector other than a hard disk. On Wed, 12 Apr 2017, Parent Allison via cctalk wrote: Maybe... The only device I know of

Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Stephen Pereira via cctalk
Thanks for your response. Just to be certain, I just tore it all down and reconfirmed, in case my memory was playing any tricks. I have a PC-100B with no expansion card. Thanks again for the advice. smp -- Stephen M. Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE > On Apr 12, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Warner

Re: Another language : SDL

2017-04-12 Thread Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctalk
I use SDL daily... But my SDL is DEC¹s Structure Definition Language, a language to define structures and export them to be used in Macro-32, Bliss, and C. Kind regards, Camiel Vanderhoeven OpenVMS Kernel Engineer +-+-+-+ |V|M|S| Software +-+-+-+ VMS Software, Inc. Research & Development

Re: WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Warner Losh via cctalk
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Stephen Pereira via cctech wrote: > I’m looking for expansion memory for my DEC Rainbow. > > I currently have 128K RAM, and I’d like to have 256K RAM, so I can actually > use the Lotus 1-2-3 that I recently purchased (without thinking). >

WTB: DEC Rainbow Expansion Memory

2017-04-12 Thread Stephen Pereira via cctalk
I’m looking for expansion memory for my DEC Rainbow. I currently have 128K RAM, and I’d like to have 256K RAM, so I can actually use the Lotus 1-2-3 that I recently purchased (without thinking). Any suggestions? Thanks, smp — Stephen M. Pereira Bedford, NH 03110 KB1SXE

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Parent Allison via cctalk
On Apr 12, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk wrote: > That cable had the same connector on both ends and labels! The later version added a pair of cables with 5pin connectors. Later they redesigned the EI to work right as the early versions were

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Parent Allison via cctalk
On Apr 12, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: >> >> So, I just picked up an MISE from Bartlett Labs (cause I really liked >> the M3SE I had) and decided to revive

Re: LOD bands for MIT CADR

2017-04-12 Thread Al Kossow via cctalk
http://www.unlambda.com/index.php?n=Main.Cadr On 4/12/17 7:50 AM, Alfred M. Szmidt via cctalk wrote: > Anyone seen or got any? >

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread ben via cctalk
On 4/12/2017 10:15 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote: All computer computer languages are only as good or bad as the person using them. I suspect today that few people map any computer langauges to real hardware other than virtual machines. Rod Ben.

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Warner Losh via cctalk
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Sean Conner via cctalk wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Alfred M. Szmidt once stated: >>It was thus said that the Great Noel Chiappa via cctalk once stated: >>> > From: Alfred M. Szmidt >>> >>> > No even the

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread ben via cctalk
On 4/12/2017 9:08 AM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: Assembler is a sports car kit. More like the VW BUG. It gets you there, but needs more ... I suspect C was successful just because the 11 could handle characters cleanly. Ben.

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Sean Conner via cctalk
It was thus said that the Great Alfred M. Szmidt once stated: >It was thus said that the Great Noel Chiappa via cctalk once stated: >> > From: Alfred M. Szmidt >> >> > No even the following program: >> > int main (void) { return 0; } >> > is guaranteed to

Re: Does anyone here know Siemens STL?

2017-04-12 Thread Adrian Stoness via cctalk
Modicon, ge faunic, Allen Bradly, Allen Heath, hewert Rand, Siemens, abb, idec, square d, some I know I'm forgeting On Apr 12, 2017 12:54 PM, "geneb via cctalk" wrote: > On Wed, 12 Apr 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > You might find more fertile ground plowing the

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Sean Conner via cctalk
It was thus said that the Great Alfred M. Szmidt via cctalk once stated: > >> From: Alfred M. Szmidt > >> No even the following program: >> int main (void) { return 0; } >> is guaranteed to work > >I'm missing something: why not? > > It boils down to

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
I think a better question is "Why do you choose to write C (or any other language)?" I can speak for myself--I can't say for sure, but I've written at least hundreds of thousands of line of assembly (not "assembler", please!) language, much of it on mainframes, back when mainframes were fairly

Re: Does anyone here know Siemens STL?

2017-04-12 Thread geneb via cctalk
On Wed, 12 Apr 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: You might find more fertile ground plowing the plctalk.net forum when your questions relate to the STL/SCL/FBD/LAD/CSF area. FWIW, "STL" in Siemens-talk is an acronym for "Statement List". Why it isn't "SL" is anyone's guess. I kept trying

Re: Does anyone here know Siemens STL?

2017-04-12 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 04/11/2017 07:03 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: > The Balkanized nature of programming is interesting. > > I make a comment about C and get a flurry of responses, but ask a > question about a programming language that is also very common for > machine control and get no response at

Re: Another language : SDL

2017-04-12 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 04/12/2017 09:46 AM, Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote: > Anyone with access to a distribution of SDT (Telelogik's SDL > programming system) for old era SunOS 4 ? I have a SS10 which is a > beggar for SDT (or KEE or Frame.) Well, there you go--another reason for the tower of Babel. STL, at

Re: Does anyone here know Siemens STL?

2017-04-12 Thread Shoppa, Tim via cctalk
Charles Dickman wrote: > The puzzling (and frustrating) thing about these industrial control > languages is how primitive they are. There is lots of talk about IIoT > and Industry 4.0, but at the bottom much of it is essentially handed > written machine code. Well, I still get to program in

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt via cctalk
It was thus said that the Great Noel Chiappa via cctalk once stated: > > From: Alfred M. Szmidt > > > No even the following program: > > int main (void) { return 0; } > > is guaranteed to work > > I'm missing something: why not? Yeah, I'm having a

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt via cctalk
> From: Alfred M. Szmidt > No even the following program: > int main (void) { return 0; } > is guaranteed to work I'm missing something: why not? It boils down to pedantism. The encoding of the above is ASCII, and the encoding type of a C program is

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
On 4/12/2017 11:45 AM, Alexandre Souza wrote: > Isn't this the buffered expansion cable? > No, the buffered Expansion Interface cable is 40 pin to 40 pin and very short. This is 3 feet long which would be a disaster for the EI. :-) bill

Another language : SDL

2017-04-12 Thread Stefan Skoglund via cctalk
Anyone with access to a distribution of SDT (Telelogik's SDL programming system) for old era SunOS 4 ? I have a SS10 which is a beggar for SDT (or KEE or Frame.)

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Stefan Skoglund via cctalk
ons 2017-04-12 klockan 10:57 -0400 skrev Noel Chiappa via cctalk: > > From: Alfred M. Szmidt > > > No even the following program: > > int main (void) { return 0; } > > is guaranteed to work > > I'm missing something: why not? > > Noel > If the compiler doesn't have

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Ian S. King via cctalk
Weighing in on the C vs. assembler subthread: modern processors are like exotic sportscars, in that pretty much anyone can drive the thing to the corner grocery but it takes a lot of skill to get the best performance out of it. Load/store superscalar architectures benefit enormously from various

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Rod Smallwood via cctalk
On 12/04/2017 16:08, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: Assembler is a sports car kit. From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 7:57:07 AM Subject: Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful? From:

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Sean Conner via cctalk
It was thus said that the Great Noel Chiappa via cctalk once stated: > > From: Alfred M. Szmidt > > > No even the following program: > > int main (void) { return 0; } > > is guaranteed to work > > I'm missing something: why not? Yeah, I'm having a hard time with that too. I

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Alexandre Souza via cctalk
Isn't this the buffered expansion cable? 2017-04-12 12:31 GMT-03:00 Tony Duell via cctalk : > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk > wrote: > > > > So, I just picked up an MISE from Bartlett Labs (cause I really liked > > the

Re: Does anyone here know Siemens STL?

2017-04-12 Thread Adrian Stoness via cctalk
Herd of it Siemens has destroyed so many good products by buying them out blah On Apr 11, 2017 9:03 PM, "Charles Dickman via cctalk" wrote: > The Balkanized nature of programming is interesting. > > I make a comment about C and get a flurry of responses, but ask a >

Re: Chip in first Apple AirPort WiFi

2017-04-12 Thread Ethan via cctalk
If I recall correctly, as you've noted it was a WaveLAN / Orinoco silver card ('HERMES' chipset), connected via PCMCIA to a SBC based around an AMD ELAN SC400 - 33AC 486-like CPU. It had something like a couple megs of RAM and maybe 512K of FLASH. I don't know what OS it ran, if anything 'off the

Re: TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Tony Duell via cctalk
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > So, I just picked up an MISE from Bartlett Labs (cause I really liked > the M3SE I had) and decided to revive one of my TRS-80 MOdel I's. > In my box of "stuff" I found an interesting ribbon cable the

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread John Wilson via cctalk
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 09:08:53AM -0600, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote: >Assembler is a sports car kit. I'd say it's more like a motorcycle -- it does the most with the least and it's SO FUN to ride. But if you don't know how, it seems impossible, and safety is entirely your problem. John

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Norman Jaffe via cctalk
Assembler is a sports car kit. From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 7:57:07 AM Subject: Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful? > From: Alfred M. Szmidt > No even the following

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Noel Chiappa via cctalk
> From: Alfred M. Szmidt > No even the following program: > int main (void) { return 0; } > is guaranteed to work I'm missing something: why not? Noel PS: There probably is something to the sports car analogy, but I'm not going to take a position on that one! :-)

TRS-80 curiosity

2017-04-12 Thread Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
So, I just picked up an MISE from Bartlett Labs (cause I really liked the M3SE I had) and decided to revive one of my TRS-80 MOdel I's. In my box of "stuff" I found an interesting ribbon cable the function of which I don't know. It is a 40 pin to 50 pin ribbon cable with a black box connecting

LOD bands for MIT CADR

2017-04-12 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt via cctalk
Anyone seen or got any?

Re: GoFundMe for Cap'n Crunch

2017-04-12 Thread Shawn Gordon via cctalk
This is the 2nd or 3rd fundraising campaign for him in the last year. Anonabox did one last year too. On 4/11/2017 10:59 PM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: https://www.gofundme.com/crunch-medical-fund Help if you can. We all owe a debt to John Draper aka the Cap'n.

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Leif Johansson via cctalk
On 2017-04-12 12:11, Tor Arntsen via cctalk wrote: >> C is like sports cars: A lot of people want them, some can afford them >> but very few can actually drive them. > > I completely disagree. That is just a made-up comparision. E.g.: C > compilers are for the most part free (as in 'gratis')

Re: Does anyone here know Siemens STL?

2017-04-12 Thread Charles Dickman via cctalk
On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 10:32 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > I don't think that you're being quite fair. There are boatloads of > specialized application programming languages--I rarely pay attention to > any of them, figuring that after your first dozen or so, it's

RE: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk
“C” is successful because it is evil. It is so easy to write a piece of dirty code that will do the job in hand, on the current platform, that is devoid of error checking but which gets the jobs done. It becomes evil when the code is re-purposed from a one off into production code.

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt via cctalk
> if it's not portable then it might as well be assembly and get the > benefits that come with that. Sorry, I don't agree. It _is_ possible to write portable code, but even ignoring that, the benfits of writing in a higher-level language (good control structures, complex

Re: If C is so evil why is it so successful?

2017-04-12 Thread Leif Johansson via cctalk
> > if it's not portable then it might as well be assembly and get the > > benefits that come with that. > > Sorry, I don't agree. It _is_ possible to write portable code, but even > ignoring that, the benfits of writing in a higher-level language (good > control structures, complex

GoFundMe for Cap'n Crunch

2017-04-12 Thread Evan Koblentz via cctalk
https://www.gofundme.com/crunch-medical-fund Help if you can. We all owe a debt to John Draper aka the Cap'n. Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)3 educational non-profit e...@vcfed.org (646) 546- www.vcfed.org