Vcfmw/ECCC any chance of streaming/telecommuting?

[Sam O'nella via cctalk]

Figured I'd wait until it's too late ;-) is anyone thinking of streaming talks 
or for brownie points a Commodore mud chat, etc? 8-bit audio stream?
I see some previous talks have been uploaded to YouTube 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu3UDdi0llxiSaFKq-p5gYQ so thanks for that! 

vcfmw: fibrechannel? 520b sectors

[Ryan Brooks via cctalk]

Anyone want a 4U rackmount fibrechannel drive box?

It’s set up for 520 byte sectors, for SGI, etc. Very solidly built, and if you 
lift it you’ll conclude it’s made from a neutron star.

No idea on brand- seems generic.  This is FC over copper (db9 style). Works.

I’ll bring it for the free swap if someone wants it,   follow up off list.

-Ryan

Re: Floppy rescue: media separation from hub

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Fri, Sep 08, 2017 at 12:46:02PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> This is particularly true if you use a whole-track reader than can read
> tracks without regard to index.

> I don't know about Amiga, however.

The Amiga's native disk format assumes whole-track reads and writes anyway: the
sectors are bunched together with just a single gap between the first and last
sector, and the tracks are not aligned to the index pulse.

Seeking VT180 floppy drive connection cable BC26K

[Henk Gooijen via cctalk]

Hi list readers,

I have a VT180 and two dual 5.25” floppy drive units.
I am not planning on connecting both drive boxes, just one.
From documentation, I understand that you need one BC26K
cable to connect the VT180 to the (first) floppy drive unit.

The cable is shielded and has at both ends a 37-pin sub-D connector.

First question.
Is the pin-out 1:1, that is pin #1 -> pin #1, pin #2 -> pin #2, etc.?

Second question.
If the pin-out is 1:1, then if I place the floppy drive unit on top of
the VT180, could I get away with a simple short 37-wire flat cable?
All even pins are IIRC “ground”, so crosstalk would be minimal.

Third question.
Does anybody have a BC26K for sale?
The original cable is of course the nicest option 

Thanks,
Henk

Re: Floppy rescue: media separation from hub

[Sam O'nella via cctalk]

An uninteresting answer but is this proprietary data or something another 
collector may have and could provide? 
null

Re: EBAY - DEC RX01/02 floppy disks - Andromeda Systems and AED utilities

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 11:37 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk
 wrote:
> Someone in the UK is selling a lot of floppy disks (shipping to UK only).
> Labels mentions "Andromeda Systems WDLT DL/DY Utilities", "WDC11 support
> disk" and "Advanced Electronic Design WINC-05/8"
>
> Unless this type of software isn't already imaged and saved it might be
> useful if someone in the UK would buy them and image them.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222629853408

Sold for GBP 32.95 yesterday. Did someone on the list pick up these disks?

I have a WDC11-C MFM disk controller. I believe it has no on-board
disk configuration and formatting utility and needs to run a host
based utility to configure and format disks. If someone here grabbed
these disks and they have a configuration and format utility for the
WDC11 it would be appreciated if disk images were made available.

Re: Floppy rescue: media separation from hub

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 09/08/2017 01:42 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

> "Normal" "simple" PC-type read, such as
> COPY source destinat
> CAN have a big problem.  If you put the bub back on, so that index is
> right in the middle of a sector, then that sector can't be read (with
> NEC-type FDC, unless you "mask-off" the index signal).  Likewise, if
> index is too close before the beginning of the sector.  NEC-type FDC
> does not want to read/write immediately after index.

So mask off the index line and you'll be fine.

--Chuck

Re: DIY crude digital alignment disk (Was: Floppy rescue: media separation from hub

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

One more concern:

Be very careful centering it!
If the cookie is off-center, relative to the hub, then tracks won't be in 
the right positions.  3.5" disks are 135 tracks per inch, so an 
imperfection of 1/5 mm is more than an entire track space!



Actually, that could be VERY useful!


On a "normal" disk, if the hub is off-center, then two positions of each 
track will have correct radial alignment, and the rest will be off.
If, for example, sector 2 reads correctly, then it should be close to 
correct between sectors 6 and 7 of a 720K, or 11 on a 1.4M.


Actually, only PART of sector 2 will be correctly aligned, but the rest of 
it should be close enough.


If another drive reads sector 3 correctly, instead, then it is out of 
alignment.  If a third drive reads sector 6 or 7 (between 2 and 3 on 1.4M) 
then it is halfway between the other two drives.


You would not know which direction drive #2 or #3 are off, but by trial 
and error, you could go each way, until it works, and then save the 
information about which way it had been off.


So, it would be a VERY crude version of the Dysan Digital Diagnostic 
diskette, at least in terms of radial alignment.
1.4M would be preferable, due to the larger number and physically shorter 
sectors, although an odd number of sectors adds "half-spacing" on the 
opposite side of the track.
You would need to try a known good (radial aligned) drive to determine 
which sector (or range of sectors) is correctly positioned.  Then need to 
take another drive for which you are willing to change or corrupt the 
alignment, and by trial and error find which direction it is off, to 
record whether sectors before or after the "correct" sector(s) are too far 
in or out.   If you MEASURE how far you need to move it, then you could 
calibrate it.   Then, to get a crude alignment of a drive, just list 
which sector(s) will read (median for ranges), and look up direction and 
distance.




OB_ridiculous-extensions:
Make numerous off-center disks.
Create a consistent format for the calibration data. 
For mass production, modify a drive to be able to move the hub clamp known 
distances off center of the spindle. (could be set different for different 
tracks, and calibration data could be written to the sectors themselves!)
Create software that checks which sectors are readable on a track, 
accesses the appropriate calibration data, and 
displays color graphic images for common drive types,

showing how to adjust radial alignment, and
interactively guide semi-skilled users through making the adjustments.



How many things are wrong with this dumb idea?

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: VCF Midwest: 6502 Badges!

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 8 Sep 2017, at 21:11, Jim Brain via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> As the proud owner (and builder) of said badge, I recorded my build, in case 
> anyone cares.  Only 1 mistake :-)
> 
> It's a long build, done late at night (so liesurely pace), and I deviated a 
> bit from the build instructions, so take with a pinch of salt.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMdghJnc7vM=youtu.be
> 

Nice to put a face and voice to a name I’ve known for many years! Must buy one 
of those kits before it’s too late, pity the display part seems to only be 
available from one US site since I have most of the other bits needed, hey ho.

Cheers

Adrian

> Jim
> 
> -- 
> Jim Brain
> br...@jbrain.com
> www.jbrain.com
> 

—
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards

Re: Floppy rescue: media separation from hub

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

Yes, they were glued.  Sometimes you can look carefully at the hub and
the cookie and match up remaining glue deposits.   In the case of a
simple PC-type read, the position of the index doesn't really matter for
reading--as long as the sector headers are correct, you're fine.


"Normal" "simple" PC-type read, such as
COPY source destinat
CAN have a big problem.  If you put the bub back on, so that index is 
right in the middle of a sector, then that sector can't be read (with 
NEC-type FDC, unless you "mask-off" the index signal).  Likewise, if index 
is too close before the beginning of the sector.  NEC-type FDC does not 
want to read/write immediately after index.




This is particularly true if you use a whole-track reader than can read
tracks without regard to index.


A whole track read, that ignores index would do just great.
WD 179x has a usable TRACK READ
It should be easy to read Amiga using WD 179x.
Unfortunately, NEC didn't implement THAT.  They provide a
"READ MULTIPLE SECTORS", instead of "READ TRACK".
DISK2FDI, ADFREAD play some strange games (such as switching drives in 
the middle of a read!) to trick the NEC into reading track.




I don't know about Amiga, however.


Amiga seems to be MFM, without IBM/WD style sector headers.
Amiga appears to read track and then parse sectors in memory.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: VCF Midwest: 6502 Badges!

[Jim Brain via cctalk]

As the proud owner (and builder) of said badge, I recorded my build, in 
case anyone cares.  Only 1 mistake :-)


It's a long build, done late at night (so liesurely pace), and I 
deviated a bit from the build instructions, so take with a pinch of salt.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMdghJnc7vM=youtu.be

Jim

--
Jim Brain
br...@jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com

Re: Floppy rescue: media separation from hub

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 09/08/2017 11:51 AM, John Foust via cctalk wrote:
> 
> When attemping to read an old Amiga floppy, the magnetic media 
> separated from the metal hub.  Were these originally glued?
> 
> Assuming I can find a way to re-affix the media to the hub, how many
> guesses as to the proper alignment might I need to make?  After all,
> the metal hub has an index slot and the media was formatted in
> relation to that.  
> 
> Is the answer different for a PC floppy?

Yes, they were glued.  Sometimes you can look carefully at the hub and
the cookie and match up remaining glue deposits.   In the case of a
simple PC-type read, the position of the index doesn't really matter for
reading--as long as the sector headers are correct, you're fine.

This is particularly true if you use a whole-track reader than can read
tracks without regard to index.

I don't know about Amiga, however.

--Chuck

Re: Floppy rescue: media separation from hub

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017, John Foust via cctalk wrote:

When attemping to read an old Amiga floppy, the magnetic media
separated from the metal hub.  Were these originally glued?
Assuming I can find a way to re-affix the media to the hub, how many
guesses as to the proper alignment might I need to make?  After all,
the metal hub has an index slot and the media was formatted in
relation to that.
Is the answer different for a PC floppy?


Partially.


The PC has a gap after index, and then a smaller gap between each 
sector.


With the PC, the index is only needed during formatting, BUT, even during 
reading, the NEC-style FDC goes "blind" momentarily right after index. 
Thus, any sectors too soon after index are "not found".  However, if you 
encounter that problem with disks that are otherwise PC readable, you can 
"mask"/interrupt the index line of the floppy cable.  On many old 5.25" 
drives (NOT including Teac 55), you can even just put a write-protect tab 
over the index access hole of the floppy jacket (on Teac and a few others, 
the drive is dependent on seeing index to be "ready").  Interrupting the 
cable is not without a few minor complications.  For example, if you ask 
for a specific sector, the PC (INT13h) normally waits through a few 
revolutions, then reports error code 4 ("Sector Not Found"); but, if 
you've interfered with the index, then it will come up with error code 128 
("Drive Not Ready") instead.
Reading PC sectors without masking will work fine, except for any that 
straddle, or are too soon after, index.  Some disk formats, such as 
Cromemco have very tight inter-sector gaps, and reading with PC can be 
less unreliable.



On the Amiga, there are little or no gaps between sectors.  It essentially 
does a track read/write and then parses in memory, instead of searching 
for individual sectors to read.  It probably relies on index to decide 
when to start reading.  It may be possible to write some code on the Amiga 
to read a track, and then splice from end to beginning to patch it.




What are you imaging it with?

If you could read the entire track (such as with a WD 179x), ignoring 
index, and then splice material from the end to the beginning as 
necessary, then you would be OK.


At least SOME flux-transition boards (I KNOW CP Option Board does) require 
the index pulse to operate.  (THAT made it trivial to create a disk that 
would choke Copy-II-PC-OptionBoard software, but could be copied [losing 
the protection] with DISKCOPY)


If you can read "more than a track", then you can manually find and mark 
where the start of track is.


The weird hacks to fool the NEC into reading track (in order to read Amiga 
on PC) might or might not work with index masked.  Without it masked, your 
placement of index will have to be accurate.



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Floppy rescue: media separation from hub

[John Foust via cctalk]

When attemping to read an old Amiga floppy, the magnetic media 
separated from the metal hub.  Were these originally glued?

Assuming I can find a way to re-affix the media to the hub, how many
guesses as to the proper alignment might I need to make?  After all,
the metal hub has an index slot and the media was formatted in
relation to that.  

Is the answer different for a PC floppy?

- John

Fwd: IBM PC 5150 rescue, Mequon, WI USA

[John Foust via cctalk]

See below.

- John

From: "Ed Miller" 
Subject: RE: IBM PC rescue

I have a Model 5150 IBM PC that I purchased in 1983. It has all the original
manuals including DOS and Basic with floppy discs for DOS 1.1. The CPU,
monitor, keyboard, and printer are all in the original boxes. I also have a
modem that I used at the time of purchase and a bunch of floppy discs
including pfs:file and pfs:write.

The CPU Box shows:
Item # 5150164
Serial # 0309391

Thanks for your assistance.

Ed Miller
414-520-4584 (cell)

Re: Available at VCFMW: Varity of Qbus boxes, anything else...

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

I'm packing today. Any last requests?

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Paul Anderson  wrote:

> I have a variety of Q-bus boxes that I can configure to order and deliver
> at VCFMW if anyone needs one.
>
> Also a wide variety of DEC parts, boards, options, VTs and printers.  A
> lot of 3100s, 3000 Alphas, and 5000s. Feel free to send me a wish list.
> I'm down to one VRC21 if anyone wants to ruin their back.
>
> If you are going to be in the area before or after the show and want to
> stop by, I'm 10 minutes from I -74 and I-57.
>
> Please contact me off list.
>
> Thanks, Paul
>

Re: HP 7970B Capstan?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 09/08/2017 07:24 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:

> On an IBM 1410 (at least - but I suspect this was likely widely true),
> tape marks were *always* EVEN parity, 0x0F (Bits 8421), even on an odd
> parity tape.

Oh, I know--but remember that I was reading a 7-track tape in a 9-track
drive.   With the 9-track "scramble" of tracks and the position of the
tracks, it makes perfect sense.

I'm reading data that isn't massaged by a formatter--this is the
(deskewed) output of the read channels.

There are a number of documents on bitsavers that explain the 7/9 track
differences.

As an aside, I know that not all 9 track 800 NRZI drive formatters
included the CRC byte before the final LRCC.   I'll have to keep an eye
out for those.

--Chuck

Re: HP 7970B Capstan?

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

On 9/7/2017 9:35 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 09/07/2017 07:18 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> 
>> Ah, well, I can see why a 7 track tape won't read well on a 9-track drive!
> 
> I was a bit puzzled at why a tapemark would read as 135 (hex).  Sigh--at
> least the parity is correct. 
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> 

On an IBM 1410 (at least - but I suspect this was likely widely true),
tape marks were *always* EVEN parity, 0x0F (Bits 8421), even on an odd
parity tape.

Learned about this one day when all of a sudden all of our FORTRAN
compiles caused the machine to error stop, but the machine seemed OK
otherwise.  WTH??  So we called IBM, explained what was going on.  The
CE calmly opened the console panel, and turned on the Asterisk Insert
switch.  He explained about the tape mark, and the fact that the FORTRAN
compiler happened to write its intermediate files in odd parity.

With that switch off, the even parity tape mark read under odd parity
was placed into core that way - with even parity, which was an invalid
core character, which stopped the machine.  With that switch on, the
tape mark came into storage as an asterisk, and the machine was happy.
(In either case, the end-of-file latch was set, of course.  See IBM 1410
Principles of Operation, "Read or Write Tape with Word Marks" - in the
-3 version, it is pages 87 and 88.)

JRJ

Re: determing date on TI 99/4 computers.

[Ed via cctalk]

Thanks  to all that  provided  on list and off list   material on the  TI 
99/4 systems. 
It was very helpful.
 
Still looking for  some hi res  ad art work...
Thanks  Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 9/7/2017 5:24:45 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

On 7  September 2017 at 04:07, Sam O'nella via  cctalk
 wrote:

> I don't know if it  was my newb brain/false memory but i thought I saw 
someone post a ti-99/2  prototype before

It was a  thing:

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=267

Never  made it onto retail sale, though.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile:  https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google  Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven •  Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 •  ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829  053

Is there a stash or has anyone started scanning HONEYWELL PRINTOUT Newsletters?

[Ed via cctalk]

Is there a stash or has anyone started scanning  HONEYWELL PRINTOUT  
Newsletters?

These were Employee news letters   for  the  computer   section of   the 
big H.

We  have  come into a small group  and  want to see ifscanned already  .

We also  have the ones that  were  GE version of this announcing the  
change over  to Big  H.

??? are there any other piles of these out there   what  need to be scanend?

drop me a line  offlist   please.

Ed Sharpe Archivist for  SMECC