Re: PDP8 ALGOL

[Michael Thompson via cctalk]

>
> From: Charles Dickman 
> Subject: PDP8 ALGOL
>
> I have been looking at the available software for the PDP8,
> particularly languages. I see there was an ALGOL. The source is
> archived on Bitsavers and dbit.
>
> There is some information here:
> http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/ALGOL/algol60impl/
>
> Has anyone played with this before? Is there any additional
> information on how to use it?
>
> -chuck
>

I have looked at the 4k ALGOL described here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/decus/pdp8/8-213_4K_ALGOL.pdf

The paper tape images are here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp8/papertapeImages/set3/

The RICM also has an original set of the DECUS 8-213 ALGOL paper tapes, but
they are different from the ones on Bitsavers. I need to make images of
these tapes.

Students at the UMN are trying to get ALGOL to run on their PDP-12 so they
can run some benchmarking software.

We haven't been able to get DECUS 8-213 ALGOL working. Any help would be
appreciated.

-- 
Michael Thompson

Re: NeXT hardware about to be recycled in Texas

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 6 December 2017 at 00:28, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Also on one of the Facebook groups. I expect the owner is completely
> drowning in "give me your cool stuff!" messages by now and about ready to
> pitch the whole lot into a river.

That'd be me, I'm afraid. I hope it worked.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: NeXT hardware about to be recycled in Texas

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 12/05/2017 04:51 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:

I also saw it on the craigslist discussion on vcf, which got more
attention.


Also on one of the Facebook groups. I expect the owner is completely 
drowning in "give me your cool stuff!" messages by now and about ready to 
pitch the whole lot into a river.

Re: NeXT hardware about to be recycled in Texas

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 12/5/2017 6:23 AM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 01:51:25PM +, Jonathan Katz via cctalk wrote:

Totally on the wrong continent but this needs to be saved!!!

Looks like there are already several users on Twitter who have stepped up.

(I would have drive up from Austin myself -- even though I need *less* stuff.)

mcl
I also saw it on the craigslist discussion on vcf, which got more 
attention.  hopefully there is time to get this before it is recycled.  
Or made into some steampunk display.

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2017-Dec-05, at 1:20 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

> On 2017-Dec-05, at 1:08 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>> 2017-12-05 20:44 GMT+01:00 Brent Hilpert via cctalk :
>>> On 2017-Dec-05, at 9:14 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
>> 
 Does the 27S82 have any equivalents that I could look up instead in the
 device list?
>> 
>>> FWIW, 27S82 is listed in the 1982 IC Master as
>> 
>>>  AM27S82M:   TTL 1024*8 ROM, 275nS access, OC outputs, 24 pin, 5V supply
>> 
>>> So half the size of a 2716.
>>> The book lists PROMs and ROMs separately, so it was probably 
>>> mask-programmed.
>>> (M would be for mil temp going by other AMD numbers.)
>> 
>> I would think bipolar PROM since rest of the AMD 27S series were bipolar 
>> PROMs. I will check this weekend if I can find an old AMD databook.
> 
> The ref did specify it as TTL, so yes, bipolar.

Oh, as for being PROM vs ROM, I'm just going by the way things are listed in 
the ref.
It lists different 27Sxx devices under PROM vs ROM,
for example 27S180, 27S181 are 1024*8 listed under PROM, but 27S80, 27S81, 
27S82, 27S83 are 1024*8 listed under ROM.
It's possible they're mis-listed of course, but manufacturers often did make 
equivalent devices as both fusible and mask,
I don't know what AMD did for series names in that regard.

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2017-Dec-05, at 1:08 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
> 2017-12-05 20:44 GMT+01:00 Brent Hilpert via cctalk :
> >On 2017-Dec-05, at 9:14 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> 
> >> Does the 27S82 have any equivalents that I could look up instead in the
> >> device list?
> 
> >FWIW, 27S82 is listed in the 1982 IC Master as
> 
> >   AM27S82M:   TTL 1024*8 ROM, 275nS access, OC outputs, 24 pin, 5V 
> > supply
> 
> >So half the size of a 2716.
> >The book lists PROMs and ROMs separately, so it was probably mask-programmed.
> >(M would be for mil temp going by other AMD numbers.)
> 
> I would think bipolar PROM since rest of the AMD 27S series were bipolar 
> PROMs. I will check this weekend if I can find an old AMD databook.

The ref did specify it as TTL, so yes, bipolar.

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

2017-12-05 20:44 GMT+01:00 Brent Hilpert via cctalk :

> On 2017-Dec-05, at 9:14 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > Looking more into this document revelas that it covers three boards
> > 02640-60009, 02640-60088 and 02640-60112.
> >
> > Now I had the idea of dumping the character ROM as well. But what is a
> AMD
> > 27S82? I cannot really find a datasheet online. From the schematics above
> > it looks not too much off from standard 2716 EPROM with pin 19 (A10) as
> E3
> > , pin 21 (VPP)  as /E1. But my Data I/O 29B does not seem to be
> compatible
> > with 27S82 and as  pin 21 is active low it gives that a 2716 setting in
> the
> > programmer (reader) won't work.
> >
> > Does the 27S82 have any equivalents that I could look up instead in the
> > device list?
>
> FWIW, 27S82 is listed in the 1982 IC Master as
>
> AM27S82M:   TTL 1024*8 ROM, 275nS access, OC outputs, 24 pin, 5V
> supply
>
> So half the size of a 2716.
> The book lists PROMs and ROMs separately, so it was probably
> mask-programmed.
> (M would be for mil temp going by other AMD numbers.)
>
>
I would think bipolar PROM since rest of the AMD 27S series were bipolar
PROMs. I will check this weekend if I can find an old AMD databook. I do
have the "Schottky and Low-Power Schottky Bipolar memory, Logic and
Interface" somewhere.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-rp4vyPPYu1Z3d6MkxRQ1NlVXc/view?usp=sharing

I traced the card to understand if the board actually matched the
schematics and it did. Pin 18 was NC and the it was possible to read the
chip with my trusty Data IO 29B as a 2732 and just use the first 1024 bytes
out of it.

The resulting files are here for those who like to preserve them:

http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/HP2640B/hp2640b-chargen-1816-0612.hex
http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/HP2640B/hp2640b-chargen-1816-0613.hex

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2017-Dec-05, at 9:14 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
> 
> Looking more into this document revelas that it covers three boards
> 02640-60009, 02640-60088 and 02640-60112.
> 
> Now I had the idea of dumping the character ROM as well. But what is a AMD
> 27S82? I cannot really find a datasheet online. From the schematics above
> it looks not too much off from standard 2716 EPROM with pin 19 (A10) as E3
> , pin 21 (VPP)  as /E1. But my Data I/O 29B does not seem to be compatible
> with 27S82 and as  pin 21 is active low it gives that a 2716 setting in the
> programmer (reader) won't work.
> 
> Does the 27S82 have any equivalents that I could look up instead in the
> device list?

FWIW, 27S82 is listed in the 1982 IC Master as

AM27S82M:   TTL 1024*8 ROM, 275nS access, OC outputs, 24 pin, 5V supply

So half the size of a 2716.
The book lists PROMs and ROMs separately, so it was probably mask-programmed.
(M would be for mil temp going by other AMD numbers.)

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017, Mattis Lind wrote:


2017-12-05 16:51 GMT+01:00 Mike Loewen via cctalk :


On Tue, 5 Dec 2017, Mattis Lind wrote:

2017-12-05 16:26 GMT+01:00 Mike Loewen via cctalk :


On Tue, 5 Dec 2017, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:


While going through the HP2640B I found two boards which I cannot find


relevant schematic and description for, the 02640-60009 Display Memory
Access Module and the 02640-60088 Display Timing Module. Anyone has more
info on these?



   The manual for the 02640-60088 is here:

http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=2542





Looking more into this document revelas that it covers three boards
02640-60009, 02640-60088 and 02640-60112.

Now I had the idea of dumping the character ROM as well. But what is a AMD
27S82? I cannot really find a datasheet online. From the schematics above
it looks not too much off from standard 2716 EPROM with pin 19 (A10) as E3
, pin 21 (VPP)  as /E1. But my Data I/O 29B does not seem to be compatible
with 27S82 and as  pin 21 is active low it gives that a 2716 setting in the
programmer (reader) won't work.

Does the 27S82 have any equivalents that I could look up instead in the
device list?


   I couldn't find that part number either, but I dumped the PROMs on my 2647A 
Control Memory PCAs, which use an AMD AM9216BDC PROM.  It appears to be set up 
the same way as you describe.  I hand-wired an adapter to plug into my 29B, 
and told it that I was reading a 2716.  The datasheet for the AM9216BDC is in 
the AMD MOS/LSI Data Book:


http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/components/amd/_dataBooks/1980_AMD_MOS_LSI_Data_Book.pdf


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

2017-12-05 16:51 GMT+01:00 Mike Loewen via cctalk :

> On Tue, 5 Dec 2017, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
> 2017-12-05 16:26 GMT+01:00 Mike Loewen via cctalk :
>>
>> On Tue, 5 Dec 2017, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
>>>
>>> While going through the HP2640B I found two boards which I cannot find
>>>
 relevant schematic and description for, the 02640-60009 Display Memory
 Access Module and the 02640-60088 Display Timing Module. Anyone has more
 info on these?


>>>The manual for the 02640-60088 is here:
>>>
>>> http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=2542
>>
>>

Looking more into this document revelas that it covers three boards
02640-60009, 02640-60088 and 02640-60112.

Now I had the idea of dumping the character ROM as well. But what is a AMD
27S82? I cannot really find a datasheet online. From the schematics above
it looks not too much off from standard 2716 EPROM with pin 19 (A10) as E3
, pin 21 (VPP)  as /E1. But my Data I/O 29B does not seem to be compatible
with 27S82 and as  pin 21 is active low it gives that a 2716 setting in the
programmer (reader) won't work.

Does the 27S82 have any equivalents that I could look up instead in the
device list?



>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks! Those numbers fooled me. Some time the number seems to correspond
>> a
>> bit between the number on the board and some times not.
>>
>
>The Data Terminal Technical Information Package contains a
> cross-reference for PCAs and Module numbers.  Unfortunately, it doesn't
> list the 02640-60009.
>
> http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=2541
>
>
>
> Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
> Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
>

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017, Mattis Lind wrote:


2017-12-05 16:26 GMT+01:00 Mike Loewen via cctalk :


On Tue, 5 Dec 2017, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:

While going through the HP2640B I found two boards which I cannot find

relevant schematic and description for, the 02640-60009 Display Memory
Access Module and the 02640-60088 Display Timing Module. Anyone has more
info on these?



   The manual for the 02640-60088 is here:

http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=2542



Thanks! Those numbers fooled me. Some time the number seems to correspond a
bit between the number on the board and some times not.


   The Data Terminal Technical Information Package contains a cross-reference 
for PCAs and Module numbers.  Unfortunately, it doesn't list the 02640-60009.


http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=2541


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: offering: computer, A/V and optical equipment, plus books and more, to be cleared out around mid-December

[MG via cctalk]

Hello,

Op 5-dec-2017 om 16:40 schreef Jason T via cctalk:

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 10:50 PM, em gee via cctalk
 wrote:

I also created another overview of what I have up for sale: <
http://bit.ly/2ifO5xE>  (Which I'll be updating.)


I have to ask: what generated that chart?  That's a creative way to
display a list of items.


For that I used the (free) so-called mind mapping software
FreeMind.  I like it to organize things and it has this
very useful feature to generate (X)HTML files, too.





Kind regards,

Marco

Re: offering: computer, A/V and optical equipment, plus books and more, to be cleared out around mid-December

[Jason T via cctalk]

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 10:50 PM, em gee via cctalk
 wrote:
> I also created another overview of what I have up for sale: <
> http://bit.ly/2ifO5xE>  (Which I'll be updating.)

I have to ask: what generated that chart?  That's a creative way to
display a list of items.

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

2017-12-05 16:26 GMT+01:00 Mike Loewen via cctalk :

> On Tue, 5 Dec 2017, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:
>
> While going through the HP2640B I found two boards which I cannot find
>> relevant schematic and description for, the 02640-60009 Display Memory
>> Access Module and the 02640-60088 Display Timing Module. Anyone has more
>> info on these?
>>
>
>The manual for the 02640-60088 is here:
>
> http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=2542


Thanks! Those numbers fooled me. Some time the number seems to correspond a
bit between the number on the board and some times not.


>
>
> Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
> Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
>

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:


While going through the HP2640B I found two boards which I cannot find
relevant schematic and description for, the 02640-60009 Display Memory
Access Module and the 02640-60088 Display Timing Module. Anyone has more
info on these?


   The manual for the 02640-60088 is here:

http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=2542


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: Playing with HP2640B

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

I have now dumped the firmware from the HP2640B terminal. Since the EA4900
ROMs are not much like normal EPROMs in regards to pinout and supply
voltages I resorted to use a logic analyzer to dump the contents of the ROM
simply by parsing out the ROM accesses while the terminal did the selftest.
It took a quite many dumps to get the full firmware out of it since my
analyzer HP16550 boards have limited storage. Someone that has a HP16555A
board to sell?

http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/HP2640B/2640.hex

One file for all four ROMs.

The good thing attaching the analyzer was that it helped me to find the two
bad 2102 chips on one of the memory boards. Now I get the full 5kKbytes.

While going through the HP2640B I found two boards which I cannot find
relevant schematic and description for, the 02640-60009 Display Memory
Access Module and the 02640-60088 Display Timing Module. Anyone has more
info on these?

With the firmware downloaded I tried to investigate why the small
Diagnostic Download example described here:
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/hp2644/diag.html
The example tries to call address 315 octal, but the firmware I dumped has
a HLT instruction at this location which explains why the terminal hangs
completely.

The HP2644 firmware is most likely different from the HP2640B firmware.

http://www.datormuseum.se/peripherals/terminals/hp-264x

Re: NeXT hardware about to be recycled in Texas

[Mark Linimon via cctalk]

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 01:51:25PM +, Jonathan Katz via cctalk wrote:
> Totally on the wrong continent but this needs to be saved!!!

Looks like there are already several users on Twitter who have stepped up.

(I would have drive up from Austin myself -- even though I need *less* stuff.)

mcl

Re: NeXT hardware about to be recycled in Texas

[Jonathan Katz via cctalk]

Totally on the wrong continent but this needs to be saved!!!

On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 12:56 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> https://twitter.com/tapbot_paul/status/937465839888093184/photo/1
>
> I don't know if anyone is in the area to rescue this...
>
> --
> Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
>



-- 
-Jon
+44 7792 149029

Re: DR-DOS

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 17 November 2017 at 14:30, Liam Proven  wrote:
> I hope this is vintage enough.
>
> I've been playing around some more with my projects to create VMs /
> bootable USB keys with PC DOS 7.1 and DR-DOS.

Status update:

I now have a working VirtualBox VM with DR-DOS 7.01-06, the last
stable version from the DR-DOS Enhancement Project, which includes
FAT32 support.

It's a bootable hard disk image, with the DR-DOS multitasker and
ViewMax enabled: in other words, a multitasking FAT32-capable FOSS
DOS, complete with a GUI.

I'm currently working on turning it into a bootable USB key as well,
but there do seem to be some problems with that. I've managed it once,
with PC DOS 7.0, but not again, and I'm not sure what I'm doing
differently. Anyway, that's a separate consideration for now.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: Vidar large format scanner available

[Ed via cctalk]

opps   yepper  large...
a pity  not   close..
Ed 
 
 
In a message dated 12/3/2017 5:44:03 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

36".
It is NOT a flatbed.


On Sun, 3 Dec 2017, Ed  Sharpe via cctalk wrote:

> how large is it? thx ed#
>
>  Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
> On Sunday, December 3, 2017 Bob  Rosenbloom via cctalk 
 wrote:
> I have a  Vidar P-62 large format scanner available to anyone willing to
> come  pick it up.
>
> It has a SCSI interface. Drivers for Windows XP  are available on the
> web, don't know about newer Windows
> or  other operating systems. Also, it's completely untested, I have
>  nothing that's has a SCSI interface.
>
> Located in Santa Cruz,  CA
>
> Some photos here: http://anifur.com/clist/
>
>  Bob
>
> -- 
> Vintage computers and electronics
>  www.dvq.com
> www.tekmuseum.com
>  www.decmuseum.org
>

--
Fred Cisin  ci...@xenosoft.com
XenoSoft   http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box  1236   (510) 234-3397
Berkeley, CA  94701-1236

Re: offering: computer, A/V and optical equipment, plus books and more, to be cleared out around mid-December

[em gee via cctalk]

Thank you for the interest, today I'll personally reply to those who showed
interest.  (My apologies, I didn't find the opportunity during the
weekend.)

I also created another overview of what I have up for sale: <
http://bit.ly/2ifO5xE>  (Which I'll be updating.)

 - MG

NeXT hardware about to be recycled in Texas

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

https://twitter.com/tapbot_paul/status/937465839888093184/photo/1

I don't know if anyone is in the area to rescue this...

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053