Re: Sparc Laptops

[Sam O'nella via cctalk]

Yes the IBMs are worth tracking down.  I always keep my eye out but rarely
see them come up for sale but it'd be fun to have an RS/6000 that doesn't
cause a hernia to move. My only similar one is a tadpole but I don't recall
the version.  I used a universal power supply to get it to run for a little
while but then I'm pretty sure the backlight on the lcd popped and went
out. So I'm also a member of the almost but not quite functioning owners
club. :-)  Would gladly get rid of some Ultras if I could upgrade to a
portable.

Re: R: Sparc Laptops

[Waldemar Brodkorb via cctalk]

Hi,
Ethan via cctalk wrote,

> >I'd be interested as well if any are left.
> >I sold a Sparcbook a while back that was missing the hard drive caddy. I
> >just couldn't find a caddy and had a random buyer that wanted it for a
> >museum. It did have it netbooting though, and they are fun machines!
> 
> Sparcbook and the IBM RS/6000 laptop have been on my back burner for a
> while... if a bunch turn up
> 
> Also looking for the official carry bag for the Sun Voyager. My Voyager is
> 100% but missing that factory carry bag.
> 
>   - Ethan

I got one together with my Voyager, but sorry not for sale ;)

Does anyone got an answer from the seller? How much you offered for
one Tadpole?

best regards
 Waldemar

Re: cctech Digest, Vol 44, Issue 10

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

On 2018-05-11 2:37 PM, John Ames via cctech wrote:

Looking at modern hard disks, I'm unconvinced we could even mass-produce
something like that today.

A 40mm radius is comparable to a 3.5" disk, which are generally 5,400-7,200
RPM. 15,000 RPM is the fastest available, but those tend to be low-capacity and
expensive, and are often 2.5" drives with a huge heatsink. We could perhaps
rotate a very narrow smaller cylinder faster still but then the capacity
suffers further, and the seek time would start to dominate.

I Am Not An Engineer(tm) but it seems to me that a taller cylinder
should be less prone to wobbling on its axis than a flat disk,
particularly if it's built at the scale of the drums I've seen at the
CHM where there's room enough to really bolt that sucker down. Bit
different than a 3.5" box with a stack of thin metal platters in it,
I'd think.
They are not even metal platters anymore they have been glass for 
several years now, glass is more rigid and can apparently be made 
smoother than metal.

Re: Sparc Laptops

[Doc Shipley via cctalk]

On 5/11/18 6:45 AM, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote:


Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 13:08:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Sparc Laptops

I have a pretty cool DEC 486 laptop.  I am unsure if they made a Pentium
laptop before they were bought out.
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECpc_433SLC/
DECpc_433SLC_Premium_open2.jpg
b

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


I dream of owning an Alphabook.  It?s a silly dream, but it?s one I dream
anyway.

I have a Sparcbook 3GS (I think that?s the model) somewhere.

Zane




I have about 15 SPARC based lugables and laptops. Some are TRIgem/RDI
Britelites that have an IPC/IPX/LX motherboard inside, three Voyagers, the
rest are Tadpole SB2, SB3, SB3GX, and Ultrabooks.



oh!  Do you, by chance, know where I can find either install media 
or the Tadpole-specific drivers for a SPARCBook 2?  System docs would be 
a bonus.


  I have an SB2 with a dying HDD.  I also have a 2.5" SCSI-IDE adapter, 
so I'd like to get it going again. This would likely be a bootp-based 
installation.



  Thanks!
Doc

Re: cctech Digest, Vol 44, Issue 10

[John Ames via cctalk]

> Looking at modern hard disks, I'm unconvinced we could even mass-produce
> something like that today.
>
> A 40mm radius is comparable to a 3.5" disk, which are generally 5,400-7,200
> RPM. 15,000 RPM is the fastest available, but those tend to be low-capacity 
> and
> expensive, and are often 2.5" drives with a huge heatsink. We could perhaps
> rotate a very narrow smaller cylinder faster still but then the capacity
> suffers further, and the seek time would start to dominate.
I Am Not An Engineer(tm) but it seems to me that a taller cylinder
should be less prone to wobbling on its axis than a flat disk,
particularly if it's built at the scale of the drums I've seen at the
CHM where there's room enough to really bolt that sucker down. Bit
different than a 3.5" box with a stack of thin metal platters in it,
I'd think.

Re: Anyone have an HP 12661A DVS card manual, 12661-90004?

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 12:16 PM, J. David Bryan via cctalk
 wrote:
> On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 11:29, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>
>> scanned, and uploaded to
>> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/21xx/interfaces
>
> Very much appreciated, thanks.
>
>   -- Dave
>

+1. Now I'll have to pull out a 12661A DVS card and a 2117F and try
some basic functionality tests on the 12661A card to see if it looks
like works. If it does maybe I'll try to acquire a 6130A supply to
give it something to do.

Re: Anyone have an HP 12661A DVS card manual, 12661-90004?

[J. David Bryan via cctalk]

On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 11:29, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

> scanned, and uploaded to
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/21xx/interfaces

Very much appreciated, thanks.

  -- Dave

Re: Anyone have an HP 12661A DVS card manual, 12661-90004?

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

scanned, and uploaded to
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/21xx/interfaces

On 5/1/18 1:43 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> OK, looks like it's time to give him a call..
> 
> On 5/1/18 11:51 AM, J. David Bryan via cctalk wrote:
>> On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 10:22, Al Kossow via cctech wrote:
>>
>>> If it doesn't turn up in what I have, I'll check with Jeff to see if he
>>> still has it.
>>
>> If I'm not imposing, could you also please ask him for:
>>
>>   OPERATING AND SERVICE MANUAL
>>   12653A LINE PRINTER INTERFACE KIT
>>   FOR 2767A LINE PRINTER
>>   MANUAL NO. 12653-90002
>>   [1 copy OCT 1970]
>>   [1 copy MAR 1973]
>>   [Card #12653-60002, cable #12653-60001]
>>
>> ...in the same "orange file box" as the 12661 manual?  Thanks.
>>
>>   -- Dave
>>
> 

R: Sparc Laptops

[Mazzini Alessandro via cctalk]

That's quite a lot of units.

This said the only I ever saw from real is the Voyager... there was one in my 
university computing lab, a very nice design

-Messaggio originale-
Da: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Per conto di Michael Thompson 
via cctalk
Inviato: venerdì 11 maggio 2018 13:45
A: Michael Thompson via cctalk
Oggetto: Re: Sparc Laptops

>
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 13:08:51 -0400
> Subject: Re: Sparc Laptops
>
> I have a pretty cool DEC 486 laptop.  I am unsure if they made a Pentium
> laptop before they were bought out.
> http://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECpc_433SLC/
> DECpc_433SLC_Premium_open2.jpg
> b
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I dream of owning an Alphabook.  It?s a silly dream, but it?s one I dream
> > anyway.
> >
> > I have a Sparcbook 3GS (I think that?s the model) somewhere.
> >
> > Zane
>

I have about 15 SPARC based lugables and laptops. Some are TRIgem/RDI
Britelites that have an IPC/IPX/LX motherboard inside, three Voyagers, the
rest are Tadpole SB2, SB3, SB3GX, and Ultrabooks.

  Michael Thompson

Re: how fast were drum memories?

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 01:53:12PM -0600, ben via cctalk 
wrote:

[...]
Can not be slower than modern computers, It takes 5 
minutes for my mail

program to load under windows and grab new mail.
My mediocre laptop running linux is fully up and logged in 
in 15 seconds!  That includes me typing in the password.  
I do have a solid state disk.


Jon

Re: how fast were drum memories?

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 01:53:12PM -0600, ben via cctalk wrote:
[...]

Can not be slower than modern computers, It takes 5 minutes for my mail
program to load under windows and grab new mail.
My mediocre laptop running linux is fully up and logged in 
in 15 seconds!  That includes me typing in the password.  I 
do have a solid state disk.


Jon

Re: how fast were drum memories?

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

   The manual says 125A per phase (3-phase, 208V) starting current.

   I remember spin-down as 20 minutes, but that was a long time ago.  :-)

On Fri, 11 May 2018, Paul Anderson wrote:


The good old days...

I recall the Q-7 drums would take about 15 minutes to come to a stop when
turned off, and would power up in seven seconds or less. Surge current was
around 115 amps?

Paul

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 3:46 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On Thu, 10 May 2018, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

On 5/10/18 10:37 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:





On 5/10/18 9:29 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:

One that comes to mind is the DEC RS04.  It spins at roughly 3600 rpm (a

hair less, so obviously a 2 pole induction motor running off 3-phase 60 Hz
power).


Vermont Research drums (model 1175B) spun at 3450 rpm 3ph 220v, The HP
2773 on the 2000A TSB was from VR so I expect RPM
would be similar for most drums of similar diameter.



Just checked, and the LGP-30 and RPC-4000 drums are both listed as 3600
rpm



   The drums on the SAGE system (12 on each side), are listed as follows:

Diameter:   10.7"
Width:  12.5"
Weight: 105 lbs (cylinder, only), 450 lbs for entire drum assembly
Speed:  2914 rpm
Heads:  Up to 12 R/W bars, with up to 40 heads on each bar, 1
erase bar
6 pairs, one for Compuuter-to-Drum (CD), one for
Other-than-computer-to-Drum (OD)
Head spacing 0.3" apart on each bar
Drum Layout:2048 registers on 33 channels (tracks), 6 fields
Channel spacing is 0.050"
Access Time:Maximum 20ms, average 10ms
Write Current:  110ma

   The R/W bars are arranged in pairs (CD and OD) so that I/O devices can
access the drum independently of the computer.

   More than you ever wanted to know about SAGE drums (thanks, Al!):

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/sage/3-42-0_Drum_System_Sep58.pdf

   Here's one of the earlier style R/W heads:

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/SAGE/DrumHead-1L.jpg


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/





Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: Sparc Laptops

[Michael Thompson via cctalk]

>
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 13:08:51 -0400
> Subject: Re: Sparc Laptops
>
> I have a pretty cool DEC 486 laptop.  I am unsure if they made a Pentium
> laptop before they were bought out.
> http://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECpc_433SLC/
> DECpc_433SLC_Premium_open2.jpg
> b
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > I dream of owning an Alphabook.  It?s a silly dream, but it?s one I dream
> > anyway.
> >
> > I have a Sparcbook 3GS (I think that?s the model) somewhere.
> >
> > Zane
>

I have about 15 SPARC based lugables and laptops. Some are TRIgem/RDI
Britelites that have an IPC/IPX/LX motherboard inside, three Voyagers, the
rest are Tadpole SB2, SB3, SB3GX, and Ultrabooks.

  Michael Thompson

Re: how fast were drum memories?

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 01:53:12PM -0600, ben via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> Can not be slower than modern computers, It takes 5 minutes for my mail
> program to load under windows and grab new mail.

And yet computer performance was perfectly acceptable before you started using
Windows? The cause of your problems and thus the solution seems obvious.

Re: how fast were drum memories?

[Paul Anderson via cctalk]

The good old days...

I recall the Q-7 drums would take about 15 minutes to come to a stop when
turned off, and would power up in seven seconds or less. Surge current was
around 115 amps?

Paul

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 3:46 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 10 May 2018, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>
> On 5/10/18 10:37 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/10/18 9:29 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>>
>>> One that comes to mind is the DEC RS04.  It spins at roughly 3600 rpm (a
 hair less, so obviously a 2 pole induction motor running off 3-phase 60 Hz
 power).

>>> Vermont Research drums (model 1175B) spun at 3450 rpm 3ph 220v, The HP
>>> 2773 on the 2000A TSB was from VR so I expect RPM
>>> would be similar for most drums of similar diameter.
>>>
>>
>> Just checked, and the LGP-30 and RPC-4000 drums are both listed as 3600
>> rpm
>>
>
>The drums on the SAGE system (12 on each side), are listed as follows:
>
> Diameter:   10.7"
> Width:  12.5"
> Weight: 105 lbs (cylinder, only), 450 lbs for entire drum assembly
> Speed:  2914 rpm
> Heads:  Up to 12 R/W bars, with up to 40 heads on each bar, 1
> erase bar
> 6 pairs, one for Compuuter-to-Drum (CD), one for
> Other-than-computer-to-Drum (OD)
> Head spacing 0.3" apart on each bar
> Drum Layout:2048 registers on 33 channels (tracks), 6 fields
> Channel spacing is 0.050"
> Access Time:Maximum 20ms, average 10ms
> Write Current:  110ma
>
>The R/W bars are arranged in pairs (CD and OD) so that I/O devices can
> access the drum independently of the computer.
>
>More than you ever wanted to know about SAGE drums (thanks, Al!):
>
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/sage/3-42-0_Drum_System_Sep58.pdf
>
>Here's one of the earlier style R/W heads:
>
> http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/SAGE/DrumHead-1L.jpg
>
>
> Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
> Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
>