Re: Pair of Portmaster II's
Diane, Ill take them. What do you want for them? Thanks --Tammy On 7/25/18 1:56 PM, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > I have two Livingston PM-11's (http://portmasters.com/faq.html) and I haven't > needed > either of these in a long time. Is anyone interested in them? > > Diane >
R: HP-2116 front panel lamps
> Good info! Don't know how I could miss this one, it is even cheaper than > the 345. I think I wanted to stick to the same type as the ones in the > panel. I've buy these lamps from Oshino Lamps, the original supplier for a good price. Minimun quantity 100 pcs Alberto - Alberto Rubinelli - Fondazione Museo del Computer Via per Occhieppo, 29 13891 CAMBURZANO (BI) Tel 015 8853201 Fax 015 8853202 Mobile 335 6026632 mail : albe...@museodelcomputer.org
PDP-11/23 with RL02 on - eBay US
Just spotted this auction on eBay US Item: 263824036905 Location is: Glenview, Illinois Not cheap, but the seller is open for offers. Not affiliated with the seller.
Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?
I can't find my IPB, but the maintenance manual shows there were both 50 and 60 hz versions made. I think I've shipped them overseas, but never modified them. I did ship a lot of RX02 drives overseas, and to properly convert them the pulleys, belts, and wiring harness had to be swapped. We were always on the lookout for parts. I still have a few different wiring harnesses around here somewhere. BA11-K conversions were also common. I still have interesting stories and parts about them. What gets me with the RK05 is how you can swap pulleys without swapping belts. A few products had pulleys with two grooves, one for 50, the other for 60. But you still needed a different belt. Paul On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 10:32 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > There are, however, DEC products other than the RK05 which had different > > transformers for 50 Hz and 60 Hz. For example, the H771 power supply used > > in the RX01 and RX02. There were three H771 models, The H771A for 90-132 > > VAC 60 Hz, The H771C for 90-132 VAC 50 Hz, and the H771D for 180-264 VAC > 50 > > Hz. The H771A uses a transformer rated for 60 Hz. The H771C and H771D > both > > use the same 50 Hz rated transformer, with different wiring. The H771C > and > > H771D also require one of two different wiring harnesses to cover the > > entire mains voltage range, e.g., 90-120 VAC vs 100-132 VAC for the > H771C, > > or twice those voltages for the H771D. > > IIRC that's a ferroresonant transformer (with a capacitor to resonate one > of the > windings to a harmonic of the power line frequency), so it's not > surprising it has > to be changed for 50Hz or 60Hz input. > > -tony >
Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?
> There are, however, DEC products other than the RK05 which had different > transformers for 50 Hz and 60 Hz. For example, the H771 power supply used > in the RX01 and RX02. There were three H771 models, The H771A for 90-132 > VAC 60 Hz, The H771C for 90-132 VAC 50 Hz, and the H771D for 180-264 VAC 50 > Hz. The H771A uses a transformer rated for 60 Hz. The H771C and H771D both > use the same 50 Hz rated transformer, with different wiring. The H771C and > H771D also require one of two different wiring harnesses to cover the > entire mains voltage range, e.g., 90-120 VAC vs 100-132 VAC for the H771C, > or twice those voltages for the H771D. IIRC that's a ferroresonant transformer (with a capacitor to resonate one of the windings to a harmonic of the power line frequency), so it's not surprising it has to be changed for 50Hz or 60Hz input. -tony
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On 2018-07-25 10:39 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: For example, If I want to use a Micro-4/3 lens on a Leica bellows, then On Wed, 25 Jul 2018, Zane Healy wrote: Why would I want to use a Micro-4/3 lens on my Leica’s, will it even cover the 35mm frame (or full frame sensor)? I wouldn't. But, I'd like to use the leica BELLOWS on the digital camera. with some minor mods to the adapters, I might even be able to use the auto-focus (for fine adjust, after course setting with the bellows). I do, however, occasionally use Leica lenses on M4/3 and Sony-E. THOSE adapters are very readily available and cheap. I use Olympus bellows from the OM series with my M4/3 camera they are much easier to adapt. With the combination of bellows and microscope objectives for lens I have been able to obtain very high magnification. Paul.
Re: SCO Skunkware?
I think I have the disks, let me dig out what I have On 7/25/18 6:53 PM, David Griffith via cctalk wrote: > > Does anyone have any Skunkware ISOs from around 1995 to 1998? >
SCO Skunkware?
Does anyone have any Skunkware ISOs from around 1995 to 1998? -- David Griffith d...@661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
For example, If I want to use a Micro-4/3 lens on a Leica bellows, then On Wed, 25 Jul 2018, Zane Healy wrote: Why would I want to use a Micro-4/3 lens on my Leica’s, will it even cover the 35mm frame (or full frame sensor)? I wouldn't. But, I'd like to use the leica BELLOWS on the digital camera. with some minor mods to the adapters, I might even be able to use the auto-focus (for fine adjust, after course setting with the bellows). I do, however, occasionally use Leica lenses on M4/3 and Sony-E. THOSE adapters are very readily available and cheap.
Re: DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)
If these are what you are talking about, I ordered up a bunch a couple years ago when I rebuilt the power harness for my 11/45, and can attest they are the right thing: https://www.connectorpeople.com/Connector/TYCO-AMP-TE_CONNECTIVITY/1/1-480460-0 https://www.connectorpeople.com/Connector/TYCO-AMP-TE_CONNECTIVITY/1/1-480459-0 On 07/25/2018 02:02 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > From: Mattis Lind > Unfortunately the mate-n-lok which has 8 position and is used for > current loop connectors and H74x plug regulator does not seems to be > available anymore. But it would be nice to be corrected here. According to one dealer Web-site, what I think are those connector shells are now out of production. However, as I indicated, I have located several places that still have some, and I have ordered some to verify that they are the right thing. If they are (they should be here at the end of the week), I will send another message with part numbers, sources, etc. Noel
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
> On Jul 25, 2018, at 3:43 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > For example, If I want to use a Micro-4/3 lens on a Leica bellows, then which > way is "TO"? Are we adapting the M4/3 lens to Leica bellows, or adapting > the Leica bellows to M4/2? You and I might know what we mean, but eBay > searches, . . . > (A: adapter to use the Leica bellows on a Micro-4/3 camera is readily > available for a couple of dollars. But for the lens onto the bellows, > is NOT readily available, however, there are extremely cheap sets of M4/3 > extension tubes, with 52mm or 57mm x 0.75mm threads between the sections. > adapters between 39mmx24tpi and 52mm x 0.75mm are easier to come by.) Why would I want to use a Micro-4/3 lens on my Leica’s, will it even cover the 35mm frame (or full frame sensor)? Zane
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On 07/25/2018 04:37 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Like this? : > https://www.ebay.com/itm/183299125079 That might have possibilities. I've ordered a couple of eBay item 362055535419, for 2 clams and change each. Same thing from Cathay. Thanks, Chuck
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Again, I've been misunderstood. I'm looking for an adapter that allows one to use standard size SD cards in a MicroSD slot. I can find only one incarnation of this idea in a rather shoddy-locking hunk of F44 PCB with a uSD socket mounted on it. If someone knows of a slicker, better-designed adapter, I'd like to see it. Like this? : https://www.ebay.com/itm/183299125079
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
At 06:06 PM 7/25/2018, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >and, in line with the treachery of descriptions of adapters, several of those >are micro-SD to micro-SD extenders, NOT size adapters! You can daisy-chain them. It helps get around the form factor and clearance issues. :-) - John
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On 07/25/2018 04:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > and, in line with the treachery of descriptions of adapters, several of > those are micro-SD to micro-SD extenders, NOT size adapters! > > But, one of those has "other alternatives" that seem to be the right one. The ones with a ribbon cable might actually be best for my application--I'd like to mount a PCB with a uSD slot inside a larger box. Thanks for the tip--I'll so some investigation. --Chuck
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On 07/25/2018 02:56 PM, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > Of course there are. Since both SD cards and µSD cards have identical > electrical and protocol interfaces, those adapters are just passive pieces > of plastic and wires. In fact, a lot of µSD cards sold these days come > packaged with a µSD to SD card adapter. Again, I've been misunderstood. I'm looking for an adapter that allows one to use standard size SD cards in a MicroSD slot. I can find only one incarnation of this idea in a rather shoddy-locking hunk of F44 PCB with a uSD socket mounted on it. If someone knows of a slicker, better-designed adapter, I'd like to see it. --Chuck
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
Yes, micro-SD often comes with an adapter to use micro-SD in an SD slot.
But are there adapters readily available to connect an SD card to a device that
has a micro-SD slot?
(">> for insertion of standard SD into mcroSD slots?")
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018, John Foust via cctalk wrote:
Wouldn't such a big-to-small adapter almost always be confounded
by form factors and clearances?
For many devices, the micro SD disappears into the device.
I'll be darned, they exist:
https://www.saikosystems.com/web/p-44-sd-to-microsd-converter.aspx?affiliateID=10050_source=GoogleMerchant
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-SD-TO-SD-Card-Extension-Cable-Adapter-Extender-Converter-for-SD-RS-MMC-SDH-/112816662414
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TF-MicroSD-Male-To-SD-Female-SDHC-SDXC-Card-Reader-Extension-Adapter-Cable-Extender-For-Phone/32819948232.html?src=google=220863469=y_short_key=UneMJZVf=%7Bifdyn:dyn%7D%7Bifpla:pla%7D%7Bifdbm:DBM=DID%7D=google=shopping=708-803-3821=y=653153647=34728528644==75384829977==en32819948232=g=c=_platform=google=Cj0KCQjwv-DaBRCcARIsAI9sba8r11HL7Eqe9sXiFCSc_fsAgI-UBbxE2gl4ORrUXWAH2aYvDhXP0JoaAoeJEALw_wcB=aw.ds
and, in line with the treachery of descriptions of adapters, several of
those are micro-SD to micro-SD extenders, NOT size adapters!
But, one of those has "other alternatives" that seem to be the right one.
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
>Of course there are. Since both SD cards >and µSD cards have identical >electrical and protocol interfaces, those >adapters are just passive pieces >of plastic and wires. In fact, a lot of µSD >cards sold these days come I believe Chuck is looking for the other way SD to micros i.e. a size reducer. -Alo
Motorola IDP board
hi any chance someone has worked with the Motorola IDP m68EC0x0 board and has the manual of the 68EC020IDP CPU module? let me know p.s. have you ever seen the IDP-net card? any information on the IDP bus timing? (i'd like to develop my own net-card for the IDP bus, but I need the timing spec)
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
At 05:43 PM 7/25/2018, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>Yes, micro-SD often comes with an adapter to use micro-SD in an SD slot.
>But are there adapters readily available to connect an SD card to a device
>that has a micro-SD slot?
>(">> for insertion of standard SD into mcroSD slots?")
Wouldn't such a big-to-small adapter almost always be confounded
by form factors and clearances?
For many devices, the micro SD disappears into the device.
I'll be darned, they exist:
https://www.saikosystems.com/web/p-44-sd-to-microsd-converter.aspx?affiliateID=10050_source=GoogleMerchant
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-SD-TO-SD-Card-Extension-Cable-Adapter-Extender-Converter-for-SD-RS-MMC-SDH-/112816662414
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TF-MicroSD-Male-To-SD-Female-SDHC-SDXC-Card-Reader-Extension-Adapter-Cable-Extender-For-Phone/32819948232.html?src=google=220863469=y_short_key=UneMJZVf=%7Bifdyn:dyn%7D%7Bifpla:pla%7D%7Bifdbm:DBM=DID%7D=google=shopping=708-803-3821=y=653153647=34728528644==75384829977==en32819948232=g=c=_platform=google=Cj0KCQjwv-DaBRCcARIsAI9sba8r11HL7Eqe9sXiFCSc_fsAgI-UBbxE2gl4ORrUXWAH2aYvDhXP0JoaAoeJEALw_wcB=aw.ds
- John
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
> On Jul 25, 2018, at 4:56 PM, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk > wrote: > >> Are there such things as "microSD" to "standard SD" adapters that allows >> for insertion of standard SD into mcroSD slots? > > Of course there are. Since both SD cards and µSD cards have identical > electrical and protocol interfaces, those adapters are just passive pieces > of plastic and wires. In fact, a lot of µSD cards sold these days come > packaged with a µSD to SD card adapter. While it is true that the “SD” cards I’ve bought recently have actually been µSD cards with an adaptor so they can also fit into SD slots, it didn’t sound like that was what Chuck was asking. I have not seen an adaptor which will plug into a µSD slot and then allow me to plug my (visible-size) SD card into the adaptor. I do totally agree that both the adaptor and the medium would be big enough to see in that case and that would be a good thing! However I have seen applications for a µSD card that would not mechanically work with the adaptor in question, due to packaging constraints, so I would not expect that adaptor (if it exists) to be a common item. - Mark
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:54:26AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 07/22/2018 09:05 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > > Throughout this whole thread, I've been tempted to say that you get better > > data fidelity if you take a green magic marker and mark the edges of the > > disk... > > On the other hand, information on MicroSD cards is likely to end up in > the sewer system, lost between floorboard cracks or vacuumed or swept > into the rubbish bin accidentally. > > IMIHO, a grievous error by making things too physically small. The > standard SD card is easy enough to pick out in a deep-pile carpet. Not > so, the usual black-colored MicriSD. The dog might well eat it without > even being aware of having done it. > > Are there such things as "microSD" to "standard SD" adapters that allows > for insertion of standard SD into mcroSD slots? Of course there are. Since both SD cards and µSD cards have identical electrical and protocol interfaces, those adapters are just passive pieces of plastic and wires. In fact, a lot of µSD cards sold these days come packaged with a µSD to SD card adapter. Kind regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Re: DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)
> From: Mattis Lind > Unfortunately the mate-n-lok which has 8 position and is used for > current loop connectors and H74x plug regulator does not seems to be > available anymore. But it would be nice to be corrected here. According to one dealer Web-site, what I think are those connector shells are now out of production. However, as I indicated, I have located several places that still have some, and I have ordered some to verify that they are the right thing. If they are (they should be here at the end of the week), I will send another message with part numbers, sources, etc. Noel
RE: Pair of Portmaster II's
If shipping to Regina, SK wouldn't be objectionable, I'd take one of these off your hands. I've wanted one for awhile. Jim -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Diane Bruce via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 1:57 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Pair of Portmaster II's I have two Livingston PM-11's (http://portmasters.com/faq.html) and I haven't needed either of these in a long time. Is anyone interested in them? Diane -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db
Re: DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)
> They are 'Commercial Mate-n-Lok', now made by TE Connectivity, who bought > AMP. > Here are the current part numbers: > > VAX (VAX-11/750 specifically) but I assume many DEC machine of the same vintage uses Universal Mate-N-Lok series. This what I bought a couple of years ago to have handy when working with various PSUs etc: 1-480710-0 15 position plug housing 1-480708-0 12 position plug housing 1-480704-09 position plug housing 1-480704-06 position plug housing 1-480763-05 position plug housing 1-480702-04 position plug housing 1-480700-03 position plug housing 1-480698-02 position plug housing 350536-1Female socket 14-20 AWG cut-strip 350218-1Male socket 14-20 AWG cut-strip Unfortunately the mate-n-lok which has 8 position and is used for current loop connectors and H74x plug regulator does not seems to be available anymore. But it would be nice to be corrected here. It uses the same sockets as the commercial mate-n-lok. /Mattis
Pair of Portmaster II's
I have two Livingston PM-11's (http://portmasters.com/faq.html) and I haven't needed either of these in a long time. Is anyone interested in them? Diane -- - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db
Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?
On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 12:17 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk > > Some products were built using different transformers for 50 vs 60 Hz > > models, and the 60 Hz models uses a transformer inadequate for 50 Hz > > operation. > > This may well be true (I think it is), but the original question was about > a > particular device, the DEC RK05 disk drive. According to the maintenance > manual (on bitsavers), the coversion between 50Hz and 60Hz involves > changing > the motor pulley. No comment about replacing the motor, the start > capacitor, > or anything else. > Right. I was just responding to a later, general comment about motors. There are, however, DEC products other than the RK05 which had different transformers for 50 Hz and 60 Hz. For example, the H771 power supply used in the RX01 and RX02. There were three H771 models, The H771A for 90-132 VAC 60 Hz, The H771C for 90-132 VAC 50 Hz, and the H771D for 180-264 VAC 50 Hz. The H771A uses a transformer rated for 60 Hz. The H771C and H771D both use the same 50 Hz rated transformer, with different wiring. The H771C and H771D also require one of two different wiring harnesses to cover the entire mains voltage range, e.g., 90-120 VAC vs 100-132 VAC for the H771C, or twice those voltages for the H771D.
Re: DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)
> From: Bill Degnan > is this info on or will be on your wiki? Well, it's not 'mine', but yes, I will be posting it when I find time. Noel
Re: DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)
Just curious, is this info on or will be on your wiki? I find it to be a well-organized resource. On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 3:09 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > So, it turns out the power connectors (plastic female shell with metal male > pins, etc) widely used in UNIBUS PDP-11's (e.g. to provide power to > backplanes, etc) are still available, if anyone else wants any. (No doubt > some > of you already knew this; this is for those, like me, who didn't! :-) > > The 3-pin ones are used for the remote power on/off cables (used > extensively > in DEC gear, not just UNIBUS PDP-11's). > > They are 'Commercial Mate-n-Lok', now made by TE Connectivity, who bought > AMP. > Here are the current part numbers: > > 1-480305-0 3-pin female shell > 1-480276-0 6-pin female shell > 1-480277-0 9-pin female shell > 1-480324-0 15-pin female shell > > 60620-1 14-20AWG male pin > > The 6- and 15-pin are for the backplane power connecters; the 9-pin were > used > to power backplanes in older machines (e.g. PDP-11/10). There's also a pin > for > smaller gauge wires, e.g. for the power control cables, but I don't have > the > number right here. > > I have checked, and these do plug into old DEC gear properly. > > > I got mine from Digikey; their page for the line is here: > > https://www.digikey.com/products/en?FV=ffec0ef5 > > Go to the bottom, where it says 'Housings', and click on that, and they > will > all show up. (There are cross-links to the pins when you click on a > particular > shell.) > > Noel > > PS: I'm also tracking down the 8-pin connectors used in the H744/H745/etc > regulator 'bricks'; an update on them in a day or so. > >
DEC power connectors (UNIBUS PDP-11s, mostly)
So, it turns out the power connectors (plastic female shell with metal male pins, etc) widely used in UNIBUS PDP-11's (e.g. to provide power to backplanes, etc) are still available, if anyone else wants any. (No doubt some of you already knew this; this is for those, like me, who didn't! :-) The 3-pin ones are used for the remote power on/off cables (used extensively in DEC gear, not just UNIBUS PDP-11's). They are 'Commercial Mate-n-Lok', now made by TE Connectivity, who bought AMP. Here are the current part numbers: 1-480305-0 3-pin female shell 1-480276-0 6-pin female shell 1-480277-0 9-pin female shell 1-480324-0 15-pin female shell 60620-1 14-20AWG male pin The 6- and 15-pin are for the backplane power connecters; the 9-pin were used to power backplanes in older machines (e.g. PDP-11/10). There's also a pin for smaller gauge wires, e.g. for the power control cables, but I don't have the number right here. I have checked, and these do plug into old DEC gear properly. I got mine from Digikey; their page for the line is here: https://www.digikey.com/products/en?FV=ffec0ef5 Go to the bottom, where it says 'Housings', and click on that, and they will all show up. (There are cross-links to the pins when you click on a particular shell.) Noel PS: I'm also tracking down the 8-pin connectors used in the H744/H745/etc regulator 'bricks'; an update on them in a day or so.
Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?
> On Jul 25, 2018, at 11:17 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk > wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk > wrote: > >> I'm not sure about motors, but 60 Hz power transformers can't handle as >> high a maximum power (or current) when used for 50 Hz. The maximum power >> has to be derated. Some transformers are specified/sold with a single power >> specification for both 50 and 60 Hz use, which just means that the vendor >> has built the necessary derating into even the 60 Hz specification. >> >> Some products were built using different transformers for 50 vs 60 Hz >> models, and the 60 Hz models uses a transformer inadequate for 50 Hz >> operation. > > This may well be true (I think it is), but the original question was about a > particular device, the DEC RK05 disk drive. According to the maintenance > manual (on bitsavers), the coversion between 50Hz and 60Hz involves changing > the motor pulley. No comment about replacing the motor, the start capacitor, > or anything else. > > Does anyone have an RK05 IPB (Illustrated Parts Breakdown) manual? It would > be interesting to see if there are different part numbers for the motor (start > capacitor, blower...) for 50Hz and 60Hz versions. > > Going back to a much earlier comment, I think this pulley is something that > would be a lot easier to turn (on a lathe) rather than 3D print. A while ago (can’t recall how many years), I acquired a number of 50Hz RK05’s. Since I live in a 60Hz country, getting the drives to work simply involved changing the pulley from the 50Hz version to the 60Hz version and changing the voltage jumpers (the drives have worked fine after that change). I believe that the switch over is documented somewhere…but it’s been *way* too long since I did it. As far as I recall, the pulleys have the frequency stamped on them. For the OP who started this thread. Yes, I still have the 50Hz pulleys *somewhere* but at this point they're not easy to find as they are packed in a tote in the basement of my shop (which is packed floor to ceiling with boxes and totes…there isn’t even an isle to walk around in…just a small area that you can almost turn around in). TTFN - Guy
Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?
On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > I'm not sure about motors, but 60 Hz power transformers can't handle as > high a maximum power (or current) when used for 50 Hz. The maximum power > has to be derated. Some transformers are specified/sold with a single power > specification for both 50 and 60 Hz use, which just means that the vendor > has built the necessary derating into even the 60 Hz specification. > > Some products were built using different transformers for 50 vs 60 Hz > models, and the 60 Hz models uses a transformer inadequate for 50 Hz > operation. This may well be true (I think it is), but the original question was about a particular device, the DEC RK05 disk drive. According to the maintenance manual (on bitsavers), the coversion between 50Hz and 60Hz involves changing the motor pulley. No comment about replacing the motor, the start capacitor, or anything else. Does anyone have an RK05 IPB (Illustrated Parts Breakdown) manual? It would be interesting to see if there are different part numbers for the motor (start capacitor, blower...) for 50Hz and 60Hz versions. Going back to a much earlier comment, I think this pulley is something that would be a lot easier to turn (on a lathe) rather than 3D print. -tony
Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?
Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On Jul 25, 2018, at 9:50 AM, GerardCJAT via cctech < cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote: Why don't you simply power it through an inverter that will output 60 Hz, eventually even "down to" 120 V , true sine wave, of course ??? They are not that expensive by now. I wouldn't worry about "true sine wave". That seems more of a marketing thing anyway, and motors don't care. Just feed them with a variable frequency motor drive and all should be well. And be carefull : motor designed for 60 Hz, running "under" 50 Hz, OR THE OPPOSITE, I do not recall !!!, display a significant reduced life time. I have to check which is which, but I know this is a question of saturated magnetic field. Better check first. That doesn't sound right. If you run the frequency up high enough you might get into problems with magnetic materials not designed for it. And much lower probably gives you reduced torque. But 50 vs. 60 Hz is a trivial difference for a motor, I can't see any reasons for that to cause trouble. I routinely run my lathe at half frequency if not less, and it doesn't complain. I'm not sure about motors, but 60 Hz power transformers can't handle as high a maximum power (or current) when used for 50 Hz. The maximum power has to be derated. Some transformers are specified/sold with a single power specification for both 50 and 60 Hz use, which just means that the vendor has built the necessary derating into even the 60 Hz specification. Some products were built using different transformers for 50 vs 60 Hz models, and the 60 Hz models uses a transformer inadequate for 50 Hz operation. It has to do with the physics of flux linkages and saturation. Under sinusoidal operation, voltage is proportional to the product of maximum flux and frequency. If you fix the voltage, in order to operate at 5/6 of the nominal frequency you need a flux that is 6/5 the nominal one. This might not seem like much more flux, but due to the nonlinear magnetization characteristics, the required magnetization current will not be 6/5 times the nominal current, but it could in fact be three times higher or even more, and highly distorted. Under-frequency and over-voltage can kill power transformers easily. A transformer designed to operate at 50 Hz will therefore have much more iron mass in its core, power and voltage being equal. That's why in airplanes power is distributed at 400Hz; the transformers will be much lighter. carlos.
Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?
On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On Jul 25, 2018, at 9:50 AM, GerardCJAT via cctech < > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Why don't you simply power it through an inverter that will output 60 > Hz, eventually even "down to" 120 V , true sine wave, of course ??? They > are not that expensive by now. > > I wouldn't worry about "true sine wave". That seems more of a marketing > thing anyway, and motors don't care. Just feed them with a variable > frequency motor drive and all should be well. > > > And be carefull : motor designed for 60 Hz, running "under" 50 Hz, OR > THE OPPOSITE, I do not recall !!!, display a significant reduced life time. > > I have to check which is which, but I know this is a question of > saturated magnetic field. Better check first. > > That doesn't sound right. If you run the frequency up high enough you > might get into problems with magnetic materials not designed for it. And > much lower probably gives you reduced torque. But 50 vs. 60 Hz is a > trivial difference for a motor, I can't see any reasons for that to cause > trouble. I routinely run my lathe at half frequency if not less, and it > doesn't complain. > I'm not sure about motors, but 60 Hz power transformers can't handle as high a maximum power (or current) when used for 50 Hz. The maximum power has to be derated. Some transformers are specified/sold with a single power specification for both 50 and 60 Hz use, which just means that the vendor has built the necessary derating into even the 60 Hz specification. Some products were built using different transformers for 50 vs 60 Hz models, and the 60 Hz models uses a transformer inadequate for 50 Hz operation.
Re: HP-2116 front panel lamps
It might be worth saving the bases and buying "grain of wheat" lamps to rebuild the lights. I see ~70ma 6v lamps available. That sounds similar to the original specification. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Brent Hilpert via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 8:21:58 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: HP-2116 front panel lamps On 2018-Jul-25, at 6:47 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jul 2018, it was written >> Christian, when I was restoring the HP Computer Museum's 2116A I ordered a >> bunch of these 345 bulbs from 1000bulbs.com - but it seems they no longer >> stock them. >> >> I did find this listing though which looks current... >> https://www.lighting-pros.com/eiko-345-t-1-3-4-midget-flanged-sx6s-case-of-1 >> 0 >> >> They are around 0.04A current draw - not 0.75A! > > Yes, the Installation and Maintenance Manual on bitsavers > (02116-9153_2116B_Vol2_Oct70.pdf) contains several errors. > Interesting enough, my printed copy of this manual from 1968 (that is > completely different from the 1970 one; it only has parts lists and > schematics, the chapters for installation and maintenance are simply not > there) is right: 2140-0035 6.3V 0.04A > > In the meantime I've ordered a bunch of JKL 345 from Mouser (60 Ecent/piece) To mention, they are actually run below-spec in the processor, which of course improves longevity and reduces the heat next to the plastic front panel. >From actual measurements in my 2116C the lamps (CM345) draw: register-bit positions: ~ 31ma @ 4.1V inside the push-buttons: ~ 36mA @ 5.4V compared to the spec: 40mA @ 6V ( I obtained CM345s from Mouser in 2013. "95 in stock", that would have left 83 after my purchase).
Re: HP-2116 front panel lamps
On 2018-Jul-25, at 6:47 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jul 2018, it was written >> Christian, when I was restoring the HP Computer Museum's 2116A I ordered a >> bunch of these 345 bulbs from 1000bulbs.com - but it seems they no longer >> stock them. >> >> I did find this listing though which looks current... >> https://www.lighting-pros.com/eiko-345-t-1-3-4-midget-flanged-sx6s-case-of-1 >> 0 >> >> They are around 0.04A current draw - not 0.75A! > > Yes, the Installation and Maintenance Manual on bitsavers > (02116-9153_2116B_Vol2_Oct70.pdf) contains several errors. > Interesting enough, my printed copy of this manual from 1968 (that is > completely different from the 1970 one; it only has parts lists and > schematics, the chapters for installation and maintenance are simply not > there) is right: 2140-0035 6.3V 0.04A > > In the meantime I've ordered a bunch of JKL 345 from Mouser (60 Ecent/piece) To mention, they are actually run below-spec in the processor, which of course improves longevity and reduces the heat next to the plastic front panel. From actual measurements in my 2116C the lamps (CM345) draw: register-bit positions: ~ 31ma @ 4.1V inside the push-buttons: ~ 36mA @ 5.4V compared to the spec: 40mA @ 6V ( I obtained CM345s from Mouser in 2013. "95 in stock", that would have left 83 after my purchase).
Re: HP-2116 front panel lamps
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018, GerardCJAT wrote: When I was "doing sort of " C.E. for 2116 ( 1971 _ 1981 ), we were using CM 380 as replacement. Even longer life !! Good info! Don't know how I could miss this one, it is even cheaper than the 345. I think I wanted to stick to the same type as the ones in the panel. Christian
Re: RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?
> On Jul 25, 2018, at 9:50 AM, GerardCJAT via cctech > wrote: > > Why don't you simply power it through an inverter that will output 60 Hz, > eventually even "down to" 120 V , true sine wave, of course ??? They are not > that expensive by now. I wouldn't worry about "true sine wave". That seems more of a marketing thing anyway, and motors don't care. Just feed them with a variable frequency motor drive and all should be well. > And be carefull : motor designed for 60 Hz, running "under" 50 Hz, OR THE > OPPOSITE, I do not recall !!!, display a significant reduced life time. > I have to check which is which, but I know this is a question of saturated > magnetic field. Better check first. That doesn't sound right. If you run the frequency up high enough you might get into problems with magnetic materials not designed for it. And much lower probably gives you reduced torque. But 50 vs. 60 Hz is a trivial difference for a motor, I can't see any reasons for that to cause trouble. I routinely run my lathe at half frequency if not less, and it doesn't complain. paul
RK05 spindle pulleys - trade 50Hz vs 60Hz?
Why don't you simply power it through an inverter that will output 60 Hz, eventually even "down to" 120 V , true sine wave, of course ??? They are not that expensive by now. And be carefull : motor designed for 60 Hz, running "under" 50 Hz, OR THE OPPOSITE, I do not recall !!!, display a significant reduced life time. I have to check which is which, but I know this is a question of saturated magnetic field. Better check first.
RE: HP-2116 front panel lamps
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018, it was written Christian, when I was restoring the HP Computer Museum's 2116A I ordered a bunch of these 345 bulbs from 1000bulbs.com - but it seems they no longer stock them. I did find this listing though which looks current... https://www.lighting-pros.com/eiko-345-t-1-3-4-midget-flanged-sx6s-case-of-1 0 They are around 0.04A current draw - not 0.75A! Yes, the Installation and Maintenance Manual on bitsavers (02116-9153_2116B_Vol2_Oct70.pdf) contains several errors. Interesting enough, my printed copy of this manual from 1968 (that is completely different from the 1970 one; it only has parts lists and schematics, the chapters for installation and maintenance are simply not there) is right: 2140-0035 6.3V 0.04A In the meantime I've ordered a bunch of JKL 345 from Mouser (60 Ecent/piece) :-) Christian
HP-2116 front panel lamps
When I was "doing sort of " C.E. for 2116 ( 1971 _ 1981 ), we were using CM 380 as replacement. Even longer life !!
Re: Scanned a few DEC manuals.
Two more drawings: http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC-11-HLCA-D_LC11_DECwriter_system_engieering_drawings_MISSING_ONE_PAGE.pdf http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC-11-HLCA-D_LC11_DECwriter_system_manual.pdf The latter is very similar to the HLCB version that already is available at bitsavers. 2018-07-25 9:07 GMT+02:00 Mattis Lind : > http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC- > MS11-HMSB-D_PDP11_45_MS11_semiconductor_memory_systems_ > maintenance_manual.pdf > > The MS11 main manual above seems to be a later version than the one > already available > > http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC-11- > H40SA-A-D_PDP-11_40_System_manual.pdf > > Earlier version then the one I found on bitsavers. > > http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC-11- > HRJSA-B-D_RJS04_RJS03_fixed-head_disk_system_maintenance_manual.pdf > > Didn't find much at all mentioning RJS04/03. >
Re: Mystery 8085-related IC identification needed please
Hi Are you still looking to purchase STC executel, I have just found my old one in the cupboard under my bed and could sell. Please email me if interested Regards Peter Sent from my iPhone
Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45
> From: Mattis Lind > I will take a picture of the boards in more detail so we can figure out > what they are doing later on. Thanks, that would be really useful. > My understanding is that slot 1AB and slot 26 AB is tied to each > other. So if there would be no expansion unibus there should be a M930 > in each of these slots. The same goes for slots 27AB and 28AB. Right, that's my understanding too. There's a diagram in the "PDP-11/45 Maintenance Reference Manual" (October, '73 edition, on pg. 60 - pg. 66 of the PDF), which gives: - slot 1 - UNIBUS A termination - slot 26 - UNIBUS A cable - slot 27 - UNIBUS B cable - slot 28 - UNIBUS B termination and my read is that the slot 26 cable is 'out to any UNIBUS memory, etc', while the slot 27 cable is 'in from the other machine in the dual-processor system'. (There's an interesting discussion in, IIRC, an RH11-AB - the dual-UNIBUS controller for the MASSBUS - tutorial manual which talks about the M9300, which is a terminator which can produce an NPG in response to an NPR; that is used when people want to attach the RH11-AB's second UNIBUS to the UNIBUS B, when there's no CPU on it. So the M9300 would go in slot 27, and the cable out to the RH11 in slot 28.) > I cannot see how a device in slot 26AB or 27AB would be able to > intercept MSYN here. Not _in_ slot 26 or 27, it's in the cable _between_ them! :-) Look at the common case, where UNIBUS A and B are connected: MSYN comes out of the CPU in slot 26, is jumpered across to slot 27 by the M9200, is carried across the backplane to slot 28, and then out (on either a BC11 or an M920). That dual-card thingy that comes with the Cache/45 would allow (if my surmise about what's going on is correct :-) the Cache/45 to place itself _between_ the MYSN out of the CPU (in slot 26) and the 'MSYN out to the rest of the system' (in slot 27). That does mean no separate UNIBUS A and B. But if my supposition as to how the Cache/45 works (that it fills itself by snooping on UNIBUS B in the MS11 controller slot) is correct, UNIBUS A and B would have to be connected together _anyway_, for that to work. (I _can_ imagine how to do it all without joining the two UNIBI together, but I will skip that for now.) Noel
Re: ABLE, other non DEC boards.
> > While looking for the ABLE (ACT) board that Mattis was talking about (and I > found it for a list member who has first dibs on it) I came across: > > > It is likely that the one that wanted the Cache/45 board also wants the double dual board that goes into slot 26 AB and 27 AB. I cannot tell for sure if it is necessary or not but it at least sits in the 11/45 machine here. So maybe you should check for that as well. Two dual boards bolted together in one unit. One 20 pin connector and one 10 pin connector. https://i.imgur.com/4TEZoiO.jpg The board to the left with white handles. /Mattis
RE: HP-2116 front panel lamps
Christian, when I was restoring the HP Computer Museum's 2116A I ordered a bunch of these 345 bulbs from 1000bulbs.com - but it seems they no longer stock them. I did find this listing though which looks current... https://www.lighting-pros.com/eiko-345-t-1-3-4-midget-flanged-sx6s-case-of-1 0 They are around 0.04A current draw - not 0.75A! Hope that helps, David Collins www.hpmuseum.net -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Christian Corti via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2018 6:41 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: HP-2116 front panel lamps Hi, I need to replace several broken lamps from our HP-2116B front panel. The old/original ones are CM-345 or OL-345. This makes sense, they are rated 6V 40mA 1 hours. BUT: The maintenance manual says something different and is even wrong and inconsistent. HP part number is 2140-0035, description "Lamp, Incadescent, 6.3V, 0.75A" This can't be true. 92*0.75A would be 400W alone for the front panel lights... The manufacturer code is 71744 (Chicago Miniature Lamp Works), mfg part number 1775. That is indeed a 6.3V lamp, but 0.075A (better!). Problem: that is a midget _screw_ base lamp, so wrong socket and only rated for 1000h. The panel and switches need a midget flanged base lamp. Who wrote that manual? Was he drunk? ;-) Christian
HP-2116 front panel lamps
Hi, I need to replace several broken lamps from our HP-2116B front panel. The old/original ones are CM-345 or OL-345. This makes sense, they are rated 6V 40mA 1 hours. BUT: The maintenance manual says something different and is even wrong and inconsistent. HP part number is 2140-0035, description "Lamp, Incadescent, 6.3V, 0.75A" This can't be true. 92*0.75A would be 400W alone for the front panel lights... The manufacturer code is 71744 (Chicago Miniature Lamp Works), mfg part number 1775. That is indeed a 6.3V lamp, but 0.075A (better!). Problem: that is a midget _screw_ base lamp, so wrong socket and only rated for 1000h. The panel and switches need a midget flanged base lamp. Who wrote that manual? Was he drunk? ;-) Christian
ABLE, other non DEC boards.
I had a nice talk with an old friend earlier today, and we talked about how some companies were so proud of their products that they never put their name on it. Sometimes a logo, sometimes only a part number. Bitsaver is great- I don't don't know what any of us would do without it. But There are a lot of items that, at least I, can't turn up there or on Google. While looking for the ABLE (ACT) board that Mattis was talking about (and I found it for a list member who has first dibs on it) I came across: Computer Consoles 343d01533 Computer interface Tech -looks like a DZ11 clone CMD CDU-700/T witch I think can be upgraded to a M/T SCSI Unibus Simpact Assoc inc ICP-1600 DPD might have been bought out by CDA Computer design and Applicationd.which might be a subsidiary of Analogic. MM3000, 40199 2mg, FPPC Some of these I've heard of, some not. I have a few hundred DEC compatibles, and I'm tired of going through them. Duel, quad, hex, and 780. A lot of Emulex, dilog, ADAC, Data Translations. Please contact me off list if you are interested in any. Pics would be nice. Thanks, Paul
Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45
> > The sandwiched dual boards are sitting in 27 / 26 AB. The board in > 27AB > > was empty (quick glance), while the board in 26AB has a few TTL chips > > on it. Slot 26AB is the Unibus A slot, Slot 27 AB should be a > > terminator on Unibus B. > > I'm more interested in _what_ the two boards are doing! :-) > > I will take a picture of the boards in more detail so we can figure out what they are doing later on. > It seems they must be jumpering UNIBUS A and UNIBUS B together. (Which I > didn't expect, but maybe... will have to ponder.) > > As to what _else_ it is doing, and why it has the cable to the main > card... I > think that it must intercept MSYN from the processor and only let it pass > if > there's no hit in the cache. > > (To explain why it would need to do that... normally with the MS11, > there's a > static partitioning between FastBus memory and UNIBUS A memory. So when the > CPU goes to do a memory cycle, it can put the address out on both the > UNIBUS > and FastBus, with the certainty that it will only get a reply on one. But > with > the cache, if there's a hit, it would in theory get a reply on both, which > might confuse it. Or if it takes the cache copy, and terminates the UNIBUS > cycle, that might confuse the memory.) > > Or maybe I'm confused, because now that I think about it, UNIBUS A goes > straight from the CPU to the UNIBUS A out slot, so the Able board couldn't > intercept MSYN? I guess I need to understand the fine details of the > UNIBUS A > and B stuff, maybe it will make sense at that point. > > Oh, wait a moment: slot 26 is UNIBUS A out, slot 27 is 'UNIBUS B in', and > slot > 28 is UNIBUS B 'termination'. (27 is 'in' because when the M9200 is > installed > in 26/27 to join the two UNIBI together, obviously one has to connect an > 'out' > to an 'in'... and then 28 is not 'UNIBUS B termination', it's 'UNIBUS out' > to > the rest of the system. > > OK, so that works - MSYN coming out of slot 26 is intercepted by the dual > double-card, and is only allowed to pass on cache miss. Yeah, that sounds > like > it should work. > I am not sure I follow you entirely. My understanding is that slot 1AB and slot 26 AB is tied to each other. So if there would be no expansion unibus there should be a M930 in each of these slots. The same goes for slots 27AB and 28AB. It corresponds with what I see on page 111 in http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp11/1145/1145_System_Engineering_Drawings_Jun74.pdf if I am not missing something. I cannot see how a device in slot 26AB or 27AB would be able to intercept MSYN here. What it could do though is to force some signals active (low). > > > The hex ABLE/ ACT board sits in slot 21 which is the memory > controller > > board for the MS11. > > One of two; the other is slot 16. > > > > From: Paul Birkel > > > I wonder whether this CACHE/45 can coexist with MS11 memory on the > > Fastbus itself > > According to that marketing thing you found, "User may optimize hit ratio > by > upper/lower limit switch settings", so one would have to configure the > Cache/45 to not cache the block that the 'other' MS11 controller thinks it > owns... otherwise both might respond to requests for addresses in that > range :-) > > Noel >
Scanned a few DEC manuals.
http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC-MS11-HMSB-D_PDP11_45_MS11_semiconductor_memory_systems_maintenance_manual.pdf The MS11 main manual above seems to be a later version than the one already available http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC-11-H40SA-A-D_PDP-11_40_System_manual.pdf Earlier version then the one I found on bitsavers. http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/DEC-11-HRJSA-B-D_RJS04_RJS03_fixed-head_disk_system_maintenance_manual.pdf Didn't find much at all mentioning RJS04/03.
