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Looks like the recent recovery in Germany had a precedent. These two happy guys have lugged their 360 out of the building BUT look at the extra they snagged with theirs, and in great condition too! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1965-TORINO-Prototipo-auto-GIULIA-SPORT-Speciale-monitorato-da-IBM-System-360/283387708589 ;)
PDP-11/23 for sale in Portland OR
The system consists of: 1) a 19" rack-mountable CPU chassis 2) a 19" rack-mountable floppy-disk drive (and bootable RT-11 floppy-disks) 3) Zenith Z-29-A RS232 terminal The boards included are: M8186 KDF11-A 11/23 CPU ? 256KB parity RAM ? DSD-440 floppy disk interface ? bus grant continuity card M8028 DLV11-F Async interface M8012 BDV11 Bus terminator, bootstrap and diagnostic ROMs M8016 KPV11 Power fail, realtime clock, (termination) Also included are several 8" floppy disks with RT/11 and other system software. If interested, send me a message. Thanks, Scott
DEC KA650 VAX memory troubleshooting (video)
Hey Everyone, I just thought I'd share a video of how I'm going about troubleshooting the bad DRAMs on my MS650 memory board. https://youtu.be/eDMhdAEFEgc I apologize for the shaky-cam, I don't have a tripod, and I needed to do a lot of panning anyway. I will be sharing my notes on the MS650 once I have a chance to write them up properly as well. I wasn't able to find a printset for the RAM card itself, so I assume one doesn't exist in digital form yet. I have documented what bit and memory range each DRAM on the card corresponds to, which may help someone troubleshooting in the future Regards, Joe Zatarski
Re: List search option?
> On Jun 15, 2019, at 8:17 PM, Guy Dunphy wrote: > > At 07:32 AM 12/06/2019 -0700, you wrote: >> >>> On Jun 12, 2019, at 7:13 AM, jesse cypress-tech.com via cctech >>> wrote: >>> >>> Is there a list search option on the archives? As in if I wanted to find >>> a relevant thread for part number ABC123 I could search that somewhere? >> >> A better question might be, is there a complete archive of the list >> anywhere? A couple of us might come close, but I know I have holes in my >> copy. >> >> Zane > > > Yes, there is. It's mentioned in the email header of every posting. > List-Archive: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ > > But there's no mention of a search facility. It would be useful. > This kind of google search seems to work: url:classiccmp.org "Zane Healy" > But whether it's ALL indexed; don't know. > > Guy CLASSICCMP dates back to about 1996, that’s only a tiny portion. Zane
Re: List search option?
At 07:32 AM 12/06/2019 -0700, you wrote: > >> On Jun 12, 2019, at 7:13 AM, jesse cypress-tech.com via cctech >> wrote: >> >> Is there a list search option on the archives? As in if I wanted to find >> a relevant thread for part number ABC123 I could search that somewhere? > >A better question might be, is there a complete archive of the list anywhere? >A couple of us might come close, but I know I have holes in my copy. > >Zane Yes, there is. It's mentioned in the email header of every posting. List-Archive: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/ But there's no mention of a search facility. It would be useful. This kind of google search seems to work: url:classiccmp.org "Zane Healy" But whether it's ALL indexed; don't know. Guy
Re: Data General Eclipse S140 for sale in Fremont
On 6/14/2019 3:23 PM, Sellam Ismail via cctalk wrote: > Hello Folks. > > I'm just passing along this ad I came across whilst perusing Craigslist: > > https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/clt/d/fremont-s140-data-general-eclipse/6901706917.html > > Asking price is $1,500. I have no relation whatsoever to the sale or the > seller, just passing along. > > Sellam > Nice looking machine. Same or similar tape drive to one I have on my Nova 4 (but can also be connected to my S/140, if I did the cable - would have to look). Disk drive is not one I have on my S/140. JRJ
Re: One of the deeper dives into RISC vs CISC I've seen
On 6/15/19 3:40 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: > On 6/15/2019 8:47 AM, Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote: > >> With VAX 11/780 and S/360 involved ? I don't think so soo >> the Cyber series and 709(4) could be interesting. > > Well the early 1960's was the rise of BIG IRON that had REAL POWER > and that led to people thinking about high level languages and Computer > Science in general. We got PL/I (USA) and ALGOL (Every where ELSE) > that is a realy hard to compile into effective code. CISC design is > now needed to handle the 'extended features'. C was simmpler, > but still hand many features. RISC came along only because Compilers > could only generate SIMPLE instructions, that matched the RISC format. I'm not completely sure I'd agree with that assessment. Heck, we talked to the hardware design people to add/modify CISC instructions to fit the compiler needs. RISC had a benefit not so much for compiler work, but that a greater issue rate with the optimization and scheduling tasks left to the compiler (or programmer) rather than the hardware. I'll posit that RISC offers little gain on simple unified ALU CPUs or a CPU with a small register file. Where are are pipelined, segmented and multiple functional units, RISC starts to shine, provided that the register file is large enough and the instruction issue rate is fast enough. For what it's worth, the number of instructions in the ISA does not define RISC, but rather that the instructions execute quickly. Some RISC implementations have large instruction sets. In fact, RISC does carry a penalty in that you're executing more instructions to get something done, so your code space is larger; but, you hopefully have them scheduled such that the whole task runs faster. A related subject of "let the compiler do it" is VLIW. --Chuck
Re: One of the deeper dives into RISC vs CISC I've seen
On 6/15/2019 8:47 AM, Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote: With VAX 11/780 and S/360 involved ? I don't think so soo the Cyber series and 709(4) could be interesting. Well the early 1960's was the rise of BIG IRON that had REAL POWER and that led to people thinking about high level languages and Computer Science in general. We got PL/I (USA) and ALGOL (Every where ELSE) that is a realy hard to compile into effective code. CISC design is now needed to handle the 'extended features'. C was simmpler, but still hand many features. RISC came along only because Compilers could only generate SIMPLE instructions, that matched the RISC format. My 2 cents. Ben.
Re: Connecting LK250 to VAXmate
> On Jun 15, 2019, at 9:45 AM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 15, 2019, 03:28 Rob Jarratt via cctalk > wrote: > >> I recently acquired a VAXmate with an LK250 keyboard. The problem is the >> keyboard came without the cable. It uses an 8-pin SDL connector and the >> usual tiny MMJ-like connector at the keyboard end. I don't know the pinout >> and I don't have the necessary crimping tools, is there any source for such >> a cable? >> > > Is it actually MMJ, with the offset pin, like a DEC serial cable? Or is it > just an RJ connector like a telephone handset? And is the SDL end the same > type as on an IBM model M keyboard? > > I have a VAXmate buried in storage. With enough prodding I could dig it out > and try to determine the pinout of the cable. LK201 keyboards use a telephone handset type connector. You might try a handset cord, though it's possible those don't work because of not having enough copper in them. At least I remember being told that handset cords have "tinsel wire" in them, while LK201 cords use real wire. paul
RE: Connecting LK250 to VAXmate
Sorry, yes, I meant RJ like for a telephone. I believe the SDL end may be like an IBM but I don’t know, it is one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielded_data_link_connector Regards Rob From: Jason T Sent: 15 June 2019 14:46 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; robert.jarr...@ntlworld.com; r...@jarratt.me.uk Subject: Re: Connecting LK250 to VAXmate On Sat, Jun 15, 2019, 03:28 Rob Jarratt via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: I recently acquired a VAXmate with an LK250 keyboard. The problem is the keyboard came without the cable. It uses an 8-pin SDL connector and the usual tiny MMJ-like connector at the keyboard end. I don't know the pinout and I don't have the necessary crimping tools, is there any source for such a cable? Is it actually MMJ, with the offset pin, like a DEC serial cable? Or is it just an RJ connector like a telephone handset? And is the SDL end the same type as on an IBM model M keyboard? I have a VAXmate buried in storage. With enough prodding I could dig it out and try to determine the pinout of the cable.
Re: One of the deeper dives into RISC vs CISC I've seen
On 6/15/19 7:47 AM, Stefan Skoglund wrote: > > With VAX 11/780 and S/360 involved ? I don't think so soo > the Cyber series and 709(4) could be interesting. It's difficult to say exactly, because of the constraints on the definition. Or does something have to be RISC only if it came after the definition? One of the issues with much older systems is that register memory was very expensive--and the corollary, of course, is that memory in general was expensive and a bottleneck. So, for example, the IBM 7030, with all of its very advanced architecture, remains out of the picture, because of its single-accumulator architecture. I don't think I'd call a 7090 a RISC architecture, either. There are plenty of early simple-architecture systems, (e.g. IBM 1130) that fail to qualify under the RISC definition because of this. One detail about the CDC 6000 that escapes many people is that there are no condition codes for branches. Given a three-address architecture, there's no "compare" instruction either (absent the CMU add-on). If you want to compare, say, registers X1 and X2 for equality, your code might look like this: IX0 X1-X2 ZR X0,equal-target The peculiar advantage of this is that condition codes don't come into the picture for the purposes of instruction scheduling--one simply uses the normal result reservation mechanism. The "compare" (IX0) above, can be anywhere in the preceding instruction stream before the zero jump. --Chuck
Re: One of the deeper dives into RISC vs CISC I've seen
ons 2019-06-12 klockan 14:35 -0700 skrev Chuck Guzis via cctalk: > On 6/12/19 1:47 PM, alan--- via cctalk wrote: > > I especially appreciated he not only offered an opinion - his > > specific > > ideas on where the boarder between RISC and CISC was - but then > > provided > > an analysis of a bunch of processors based on those criteria and an > > analysis of the outliers that challenged his criteria. It's a well > > thought-out and explained opinion that just doesn't happen often on > > the > > Internet. > > > > I assume from RS/6000, he meant generally the Power gen 1 > > architecture. > > And IBM RT/PC he meant ROMP. I'm pretty sure Alpha was well > > established > > when he wrote the analysis. Would have been nice to see that > > included. > > If I had more time, I'd research it. Maybe SuperH and WE32 as > > well. > > > > Is the discussion restricted to microprocessors? > > --Chuck > With VAX 11/780 and S/360 involved ? I don't think so soo the Cyber series and 709(4) could be interesting.
Re: Connecting LK250 to VAXmate
On Sat, Jun 15, 2019, 03:28 Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > I recently acquired a VAXmate with an LK250 keyboard. The problem is the > keyboard came without the cable. It uses an 8-pin SDL connector and the > usual tiny MMJ-like connector at the keyboard end. I don't know the pinout > and I don't have the necessary crimping tools, is there any source for such > a cable? > Is it actually MMJ, with the offset pin, like a DEC serial cable? Or is it just an RJ connector like a telephone handset? And is the SDL end the same type as on an IBM model M keyboard? I have a VAXmate buried in storage. With enough prodding I could dig it out and try to determine the pinout of the cable. >
Re: IBM PC-RT 6150 looking for help
On 2019-06-15 03:19, Peter Turczak via cctalk wrote: > The hard disk seems to be stuck or the drives electronics are broken, it > does not spin up. As these drives are quite rare, Model of the hard drive? I think I have some ESDI drives still ...
Connecting LK250 to VAXmate
I recently acquired a VAXmate with an LK250 keyboard. The problem is the keyboard came without the cable. It uses an 8-pin SDL connector and the usual tiny MMJ-like connector at the keyboard end. I don't know the pinout and I don't have the necessary crimping tools, is there any source for such a cable? Thanks Rob
IBM PC-RT 6150 looking for help
In preparation of moving, I dug out a IBM 6150 PC-RT from my basement. This was my first proper computer as a child, which was donated to me by a local company that upgraded their CAD system. So it would be interesting to bring it back to life. The machine is equipped with an 320 MB ESDI, 10 MBit Baseband Ethernet adapter and an IBM Megapel graphics adapter. This baby was quite a sight in 1993 when I got it, with its elegant console font designed by Knuth. Now I'm trying to revive the old machine, but there are some hassles: The hard disk seems to be stuck or the drives electronics are broken, it does not spin up. As these drives are quite rare, I'm looking for the SCSI card (Model 6lX700l). Is it right, the PC-RT can boot off SCSI? While I made images of the install floppies, it seems the AIX base system 2.0.0. disk #1 is missing. The AIXWindows floppies where not imaged and seem to be unreadable. Otherwise all VRM/extendes svcs, etc floppy images are at hand. So there is a big pile of problems with this box, maybe someone can help me out with parts and floppy images? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Peter
