Re: keycaps / switches for Tek 4006

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

> Can you take a picture of the switches?
> Cindy

Some pics of they keyboard assembly, key cap underside, key mechs, and also the 
power toggle I'd like to replace, are here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dKBOdhwgpedYpYCKbGxrd3P9jCNwBRs5 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U__BCVWJQgP-s0ZrPMBWQ21LWM2jsWjP 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hh-SXbyIW_hjeMZnbVZzx56-VRwFBcDM 


https://drive.google.com/open?id=17YNPFk9KUm4mZnjAV3EFCY09JXASNMtI 


thanks,
   --FritzM.

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/26/19 2:53 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

Genlock?
MOST video add-ons were combined onto a board with their own video card, 
rather than connecting to IBM's


It seems odd within a 5151/MDA context though - plus the system seems 
entirely self-contained, i.e. not designed to interact with any other video 
equipment.



Co-processor?
 Diamond Computer Trackstar was an Apple2 on an ISA card. It was even 
sold [briefly] by Radio Shack.
 Quadram Quadlink was an Apple2 on an ISA card.  The college bought 20 
of them.  14 were DOA.  8 of the replacements ("THESE ones are thoroughly 
tested") were also DOA.  One had a connector (right angle dual row?) 
mounted backwards, and could not be connected for testing.


Something like that is certainly sounding plausible to me - not necessarily 
Apple II, but *something* that provides non-x86 processor ability, and 
presumably which involves video output above and beyond MDA (otherwise why 
wouldn't it drive the MDA card directly), and yet still monochrome and 
compatible with a 5151.


But, MDA (or MDP as described) seems less likely.  "Who would want to do 
Visicalc or word processing without COLOR??"  There did exist a few 
after-market CGA cards that had DE9 and DB25 (printer).


I did manage to locate the original seller's listing, which didn't really 
provide any new information - but there were a couple of pictures of the 
monitor confirming that it is a 5151.


Was it in working order?  Or had somebody merely cabled the MDA video to a 
DE9 serial port?


The thought had crossed my mind, too. Seller's claim was that they had it 
booted to a DOS prompt, then smoke came out of the PSU; if they're honest 
then it's likely age-related demise of RF suppression caps or maybe a 
tantalum somewhere.


I did get the impression that they don't really know what they have, i.e. 
to them it's just an old XT (and therefore worth a small fortune).


The cable connecting the MDA's output to the mystery card does rather look 
like it was made for the purpose - it's conveniently long enough to bridge 
between one or two slots, and the cable appears to exit the connectors at a 
45 degree angle to account for the MDA's output being toward the top of the 
card while the input to the mystery card is toward the bottom.


We had a couple of "instructors" at the college who didn't see anything 
wrong with connecting any cables that fit, including swapping bus mouse and 
video, or wanting gender changers to try to connect a parallel printer to a 
25 pin serial port ormodem to printer port.   It is frustrating to try to 
deal with some people.


I suppose that's the only good thing about the modern "everything is USB" 
world... :/


cheers

Jules

Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.

[ben via cctalk]

On 7/25/2019 1:08 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote:

Does this mean that, like me scratching a bit at the package to expose
enough nub of broken-off pin to get a blob of solder on to hold a new
leg made of wire can theoretically be extended to shaving off the top
of the package to expose the IC and then tack soldering the severed
wire back onto it?


The chip is DEAD what do have to loose? :)
Ben.

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Ray Jewhurst via cctalk]

I have been out of the PC tech game for almost 20 years and even I know the
difference between ISA, PCI, MCA and AGP. I've never actually seen an EISA
in the flesh though.

Ray

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 4:04 PM Paul Berger via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> On 2019-07-26 4:53 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Jul 2019, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
> >> Someone on one of the Facebook vintage groups found an IBM 5160 with
> >> an MDA display for sale in Australia, except that it's a bit odd in
> >> that the machine had what appears to be an MDA card, the output of
> >> which is then connected via a short external cable to the input on
> >> another card, and then an output that card is what's actually hooked
> >> up to the monitor.
> >>
> >> The only internal photo of the machine is very poor, unfortunately.
> >> I'm reasonably confident that the "first" card in the "mystery" chain
> >> is MDA, it's full-length and alongside the DE-shell video output has
> >> the usual DB-25 for parallel. The "mystery" card is also full-length,
> >> and there's another full-length card immediately adjacent to it with
> >> no external connectors - that one could easily be RAM, or the hard
> >> disk controller etc.  but I suppose it's possible that the mystery
> >> item is actually a two-card set.
> >>
> >> Anyway, any guesses as to what it might be? The implication is that
> >> the mystery card adds functionality to the MDA card (reminiscent of
> >> 3DFX boards years later), but of course is operating within the
> >> confines of what the MDA display's capable of.
> >
> >
> > Genlock?
> > MOST video add-ons were combined onto a board with their own video
> > card, rather than connecting to IBM's
> >
> > Co-processor?
> > Diamond Computer Trackstar was an Apple2 on an ISA card. It was
> > even sold [briefly] by Radio Shack.
> > Quadram Quadlink was an Apple2 on an ISA card.  The college bought
> > 20 of them.  14 were DOA.  8 of the replacements ("THESE ones are
> > thoroughly tested") were also DOA.  One had a connector (right angle
> > dual row?) mounted backwards, and could not be connected for testing.
> >
> > But, MDA (or MDP as described) seems less likely.  "Who would want to
> > do Visicalc or word processing without COLOR??"  There did exist a few
> > after-market CGA cards that had DE9 and DB25 (printer).
> >
> >
> > Was it in working order?  Or had somebody merely cabled the MDA video
> > to a DE9 serial port?  And 5151 will physically connect to CGA (and
> > not work)
> > We had a couple of "instructors" at the college who didn't see
> > anything wrong with connecting any cables that fit, including swapping
> > bus mouse and video, or wanting gender changers to try to connect a
> > parallel printer to a 25 pin serial port ormodem to printer port.   It
> > is frustrating to try to deal with some people.
>
> I know of a "trained" service technician who inserted an PCI card into a
> ISA card slot and then call for assistance because it did not work.
> Fix.. swap technician...
>
> Paul.
>
>

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

On 2019-07-26 4:53 p.m., Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2019, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
Someone on one of the Facebook vintage groups found an IBM 5160 with 
an MDA display for sale in Australia, except that it's a bit odd in 
that the machine had what appears to be an MDA card, the output of 
which is then connected via a short external cable to the input on 
another card, and then an output that card is what's actually hooked 
up to the monitor.


The only internal photo of the machine is very poor, unfortunately. 
I'm reasonably confident that the "first" card in the "mystery" chain 
is MDA, it's full-length and alongside the DE-shell video output has 
the usual DB-25 for parallel. The "mystery" card is also full-length, 
and there's another full-length card immediately adjacent to it with 
no external connectors - that one could easily be RAM, or the hard 
disk controller etc.  but I suppose it's possible that the mystery 
item is actually a two-card set.


Anyway, any guesses as to what it might be? The implication is that 
the mystery card adds functionality to the MDA card (reminiscent of 
3DFX boards years later), but of course is operating within the 
confines of what the MDA display's capable of.



Genlock?
MOST video add-ons were combined onto a board with their own video 
card, rather than connecting to IBM's


Co-processor?
Diamond Computer Trackstar was an Apple2 on an ISA card. It was 
even sold [briefly] by Radio Shack.
Quadram Quadlink was an Apple2 on an ISA card.  The college bought 
20 of them.  14 were DOA.  8 of the replacements ("THESE ones are 
thoroughly tested") were also DOA.  One had a connector (right angle 
dual row?) mounted backwards, and could not be connected for testing.


But, MDA (or MDP as described) seems less likely.  "Who would want to 
do Visicalc or word processing without COLOR??"  There did exist a few 
after-market CGA cards that had DE9 and DB25 (printer).



Was it in working order?  Or had somebody merely cabled the MDA video 
to a DE9 serial port?  And 5151 will physically connect to CGA (and 
not work)
We had a couple of "instructors" at the college who didn't see 
anything wrong with connecting any cables that fit, including swapping 
bus mouse and video, or wanting gender changers to try to connect a 
parallel printer to a 25 pin serial port ormodem to printer port.   It 
is frustrating to try to deal with some people.


I know of a "trained" service technician who inserted an PCI card into a 
ISA card slot and then call for assistance because it did not work.    
Fix.. swap technician...


Paul.

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Fri, 26 Jul 2019, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
Someone on one of the Facebook vintage groups found an IBM 5160 with an MDA 
display for sale in Australia, except that it's a bit odd in that the machine 
had what appears to be an MDA card, the output of which is then connected via 
a short external cable to the input on another card, and then an output that 
card is what's actually hooked up to the monitor.


The only internal photo of the machine is very poor, unfortunately. I'm 
reasonably confident that the "first" card in the "mystery" chain is MDA, 
it's full-length and alongside the DE-shell video output has the usual DB-25 
for parallel. The "mystery" card is also full-length, and there's another 
full-length card immediately adjacent to it with no external connectors - 
that one could easily be RAM, or the hard disk controller etc.  but I suppose 
it's possible that the mystery item is actually a two-card set.


Anyway, any guesses as to what it might be? The implication is that the 
mystery card adds functionality to the MDA card (reminiscent of 3DFX boards 
years later), but of course is operating within the confines of what the MDA 
display's capable of.



Genlock?
MOST video add-ons were combined onto a board with their own video card, 
rather than connecting to IBM's


Co-processor?
	Diamond Computer Trackstar was an Apple2 on an ISA card. 
It was even sold [briefly] by Radio Shack.
	Quadram Quadlink was an Apple2 on an ISA card.  The college bought 
20 of them.  14 were DOA.  8 of the replacements ("THESE ones are 
thoroughly tested") were also DOA.  One had a connector (right angle dual 
row?) mounted backwards, and could not be connected for testing.


But, MDA (or MDP as described) seems less likely.  "Who would want to do 
Visicalc or word processing without COLOR??"  There did exist a few 
after-market CGA cards that had DE9 and DB25 (printer).



Was it in working order?  Or had somebody merely cabled the MDA video to a 
DE9 serial port?  And 5151 will physically connect to CGA (and not work)
We had a couple of "instructors" at the college who didn't see anything 
wrong with connecting any cables that fit, including swapping bus mouse 
and video, or wanting gender changers to try to connect a parallel 
printer to a 25 pin serial port ormodem to printer port.   It is 
frustrating to try to deal with some people.

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/26/19 11:25 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 13:23, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:


Someone on one of the Facebook vintage groups


Oh? Which one?


It's in Vintage Computer Club, posted on the 24th. Doubtless Facebook's 
buried it for you because it seems to enjoy hiding info from people 
whenever possible these days, but a search within the group for "5160" will 
presumably find it.


cheers,

Jules

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/26/19 9:50 AM, Tony Duell wrote:

Are you sure it's MDA rather than CGA. The reason I ask is that I have a
full-length 8-bit ISA card in my collection that connects between the CGA
card and its monitor (it also provides a composite video output if you want
that) _and_ inside the machine it connects between the floppy controller and
the drives.


Hi Tony,

The person who was asking about it said that it's a 5151 display, although 
I've not seen any photos showing the front of the machine/monitor, so I 
can't be 100% certain. Having said that, the lower part of the monitor's 
back is visible in one photo, and it has captive power + video cables off 
to the left and no controls, which seems consistent with a 5151; I believe 
that the 5153 and 5154 had a power socket and brightness/contrast controls 
on them.


There's a 6502 processor on said card and it claims to provide an emulation
of the Apple ][


That's an interesting beast. I did wonder if this was something along those 
lines, too, i.e. a non-x86 processor card for the purposes of emulating 
something else - but the only one I'm aware of is the XT/370, and I don't 
believe that did any kind of video pass-through (that and I think it was a 
three-board set, where this is two at most).



If yours is MDA then I wonder if it's some graphics add-on (remember
the original
MDA was text only). But most of those, like the Hercules, provided the text mode
as well and were stand-alone cards. It wasn't much extra logic to do that.


Indeed. Whatever it is still appears to run within the limits of the MDA 
display, so it's not color, and resolution-wise it must be more or less in 
line with Hercules. As you say, there wasn't a massive increase in logic 
when comparing Hercules to MDA, so it seems odd for a card to exist which 
still required an MDA adapter to be present; I feel there's got to be some 
additional functionality being offered, too.


cheers,

Jules

Re: MicroPDP-11/23+ cabinet kit cables

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

Noel;

Yep, that's the one.  I never thought one would be on ebay.  Imagine 
searching by the part number


Doug

On 7/26/2019 11:23 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Douglas Taylor

 > I'm putting together a MicroPDP-11/23 in a BA23 box. Have the M8189 CPU
 > quad width board and the bulkhead cabinet kit .. how the cabling goes
 > from the M8189 CPU board to the bulkhead cabinet kit?

I _think_ this might be the cable you need:

   https://www.ebay.com/itm/CK-KDF11-CABLE-ONLY-P-N-70-20451-1C/151622708242

but I'm not familiar with the cab kit, so I'm not sure.

 > The 10 pin connectors on the CPU board don't seem to be keyed ...
 > Is there something that gives the orientation away?

These 10 pin EIA connectors (same in the DLV11-J, KDJ11-B, etc) are keyed,
with a missing pin. DEC cables for these connectors have a plug in the
matching hole.


 > From: Glen Slick

 > In the photos that I have found of the M8189 console panel there is a
 > '1' just above the top right of the 20-pin connector indicating Pin 1.
 > A trace can be seen leading from that pin to the baud rate circuitry.
 > So that pin would go to Pin 1 of one of the 10-pin connectors on the 
M8189.

Y'all love to re-invent the wheel, I see:

   http://gunkies.org/wiki/DEC_asynchronous_serial_line_pinout#10_pin_header

I should check to see if the KDJ11-B has the same external baud rate
selection support, and if so, update the page to add it.

Oh, that's the other way to tell the orientation, with non-flat-cable cables;
with the loopback jumper on pins 7&9.

Noel

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 13:23, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> Someone on one of the Facebook vintage groups

Oh? Which one?


-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: MicroPDP-11/23+ cabinet kit cables

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Douglas Taylor

> I'm putting together a MicroPDP-11/23 in a BA23 box. Have the M8189 CPU
> quad width board and the bulkhead cabinet kit .. how the cabling goes
> from the M8189 CPU board to the bulkhead cabinet kit?

I _think_ this might be the cable you need:

  https://www.ebay.com/itm/CK-KDF11-CABLE-ONLY-P-N-70-20451-1C/151622708242

but I'm not familiar with the cab kit, so I'm not sure.

> The 10 pin connectors on the CPU board don't seem to be keyed ...
> Is there something that gives the orientation away? 

These 10 pin EIA connectors (same in the DLV11-J, KDJ11-B, etc) are keyed,
with a missing pin. DEC cables for these connectors have a plug in the
matching hole.


> From: Glen Slick

> In the photos that I have found of the M8189 console panel there is a
> '1' just above the top right of the 20-pin connector indicating Pin 1.
> A trace can be seen leading from that pin to the baud rate circuitry.
> So that pin would go to Pin 1 of one of the 10-pin connectors on the 
M8189.

Y'all love to re-invent the wheel, I see:

  http://gunkies.org/wiki/DEC_asynchronous_serial_line_pinout#10_pin_header

I should check to see if the KDJ11-B has the same external baud rate
selection support, and if so, update the page to add it.

Oh, that's the other way to tell the orientation, with non-flat-cable cables;
with the loopback jumper on pins 7&9.

Noel

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:23 PM Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Someone on one of the Facebook vintage groups found an IBM 5160 with an MDA
> display for sale in Australia, except that it's a bit odd in that the
> machine had what appears to be an MDA card, the output of which is then
> connected via a short external cable to the input on another card, and then
> an output that card is what's actually hooked up to the monitor.

Are you sure it's MDA rather than CGA. The reason I ask is that I have a
full-length 8-bit ISA card in my collection that connects between the CGA
card and its monitor (it also provides a composite video output if you want
that) _and_ inside the machine it connects between the floppy controller and
the drives.

There's a 6502 processor on said card and it claims to provide an emulation
of the Apple ][

If yours is MDA then I wonder if it's some graphics add-on (remember
the original
MDA was text only). But most of those, like the Hercules, provided the text mode
as well and were stand-alone cards. It wasn't much extra logic to do that.

-tony

Re: DEC Pro380 problems

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:46 PM Eric Dittman via cctalk
 wrote:> >> I pulled my Pro380 out of
storage...
>
> Okay, I looked at the slot and it looks like one of the first pins is
> missing:
>
> https://www.dittman.net/pro380/pro380missingpin.jpg

Bummer.  I have a floppy controller that had the wiper in the ZIF
socket fail so it won't unclamp all the pins to slide down the
backplane slot.  I suppose you need what I need - a dead board to
steal the connector from.  There are short and long connectors - so
far, I see the short connectors on I/O cards and long connectors on
memory and video cards.  I haven't dug into the reference manual deep
enough to see the signal differences.

> I removed the HD controller and it fails to boot from floppy as well.
> The error codes change but seem to point to the RX50 drive being bad.

I've had 1 or 2 RX50 drives go out over the years.  They are
essentially unrepairable outside of simple mechanical failures (broken
door latches mostly).

> I had another Pro380 but it's come up missing so I can't swap parts.
> I guess I'll keep an eye out for another one.

I only have one Pro380 (a former console for our VAX8530 from the 90s)
but I've been able to borrow test parts from a Pro350.  Unfortunately,
I have fewer full-sets of cards than I have boxes (classic N-1
problem).  I seem to have a lot of memory cards and only one extra
bitplane (color graphics) card.  I think I have one wonky primary
video card (garbage video) and one RX50 controller with a broken ZIF
connector.

20 years ago, it was easy to find cheap/free Pro350 pickups.  I
haven't seen Professional boxes in the wild in quite some time, and I
don't remember anyone selling loose cards.  Perhaps they did but they
weren't visible about it.

-ethan

IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hi all,

Someone on one of the Facebook vintage groups found an IBM 5160 with an MDA 
display for sale in Australia, except that it's a bit odd in that the 
machine had what appears to be an MDA card, the output of which is then 
connected via a short external cable to the input on another card, and then 
an output that card is what's actually hooked up to the monitor.


The only internal photo of the machine is very poor, unfortunately. I'm 
reasonably confident that the "first" card in the "mystery" chain is MDA, 
it's full-length and alongside the DE-shell video output has the usual 
DB-25 for parallel. The "mystery" card is also full-length, and there's 
another full-length card immediately adjacent to it with no external 
connectors - that one could easily be RAM, or the hard disk controller etc. 
 but I suppose it's possible that the mystery item is actually a two-card 
set.


Anyway, any guesses as to what it might be? The implication is that the 
mystery card adds functionality to the MDA card (reminiscent of 3DFX boards 
years later), but of course is operating within the confines of what the 
MDA display's capable of.


cheers

Jules

Re: keycaps / switches for Tek 4006

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 02:40, Fritz Mueller via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> After disassembly, I can see the keyboard assembly are marked "Cherry" and 
> part number is B76-07AA.  I'm not enough of a keyboard wonk to know if these 
> are still-mfg'd cherry key mechanisms?

Cheery are still around. Ask them?

https://www.cherry.co.uk/service-downloads/contact.html

https://www.cherryamericas.com/contact/

https://www.cherry.co.uk/imprint

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053