Fun that I have had with Fortran:
1) Passing an integer constant where a variable was expected, and having that
constant modified by the called routine; on an IBM 1800 / TSX, small integer
constants were stored in an area shared with the operating system, so it was
supremely easy to change the
> On May 29, 2020, at 5:24 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On 5/29/2020 4:06 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> On May 29, 2020, at 4:25 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> C is portable by design and runs on many architectures.
>>> It doesn't need 512Kb of RAM and
On 5/29/20 3:41 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Yes, a pointer to the PC Interrupt Vector Table could be problematic.
>
> C lets you do a lot of things that some other languages will protect you
> from. Accordingly, Allen Holub titled one of his books about C, "Enough
> Rope To Shoot Yourself
On 5/29/2020 5:08 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
On 5/29/20 5:24 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
At the risk of fanning the language fire, C seems to be a smaller
step up from native machine language than most other languages. It's
like 80% of the portability with 20% of the effort
Hi all!
More non-discussion, technical stuff: I'm starting to work on restoring
some of the old Evecon-6 servers that I used to lug to conventions 30
years ago. Right now I just dragged out my Plessy 20mb disk drive which
is a Diablo 44 Perkin Elmer monster. Yep, the one with the 10mb platter
Phil (and the rest of you)
You may find this interesting:-
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/browse.cgi?fn=HISTORY=MEMO=cp67#hit
note that you won't find VMSHARE articles via google. The site isn't indexed
anywhere else.
Dave
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk On Behalf Of Phil Budne
On Fri, 29 May 2020, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
Just to make sure everyone knows that we haven't lost our minds:
Nothing is going in the skip/dumpster/e-waste recycling bin. It's a
long pause, that's all.
Thank you for the reassuraance.
We will count on you to keep us informed as things
On Fri, 29 May 2020, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
Yes. But the same is true for many languages. Fortran is a
particularly good example, but there are plenty of portable languages
(Algol, Basic, LISP, Python, COBOL, Ada, RPG, ...). Some more than C;
for example, C doesn't like one's
> From: Noel
> > From: Jon Elson
>
> > As far as I know, there was no VM/360. There WAS VM/370, which was out
> > in the early 1970's
>
> CP/67, which was a semi-product, and ran only on 360/67's, was basically the
> same functionality as VM/370. (I get the impression that the code was
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon
> via cctalk
> Sent: 29 May 2020 23:09
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC
>
> On 5/29/20 5:24 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > At the risk of fanning the language fire, C seems
On 5/29/20 5:24 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
At the risk of fanning the language fire, C seems to be a smaller step
up from native machine language than most other languages. It's like
80% of the portability with 20% of the effort of writing directly in ASM.
PL/M?
bill
On Fri, 29 May 2020, ben via cctalk wrote:
BTW Microsoft also had Fortan, You don't hear much about that.
Ben.
One reaason why you don't hear much about that is because the
first version of Microsoft Fortran for the PC wasn't real great.
It was slow. A Sieve Of Erastothanes benchmark
On 5/29/20 2:31 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
On 05/29/2020 03:05 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
Just to make sure everyone knows that we haven't lost our minds:
Nothing is going in the skip/dumpster/e-waste recycling bin. It's a
long pause, that's all.
Well, that's a relief, at
I was interested in computers from grade 11; that would have been in 1967.
I got my first microcomputer in 1978, a Heathkit H8 - terribly priced here
in Canada. From there I went to the Coleco ADAM. It was essentially an
APPLE II clone, well the OS was. Not sure what has become of ADAM-user
groups
Derailing a little bit but did the LCM loan things or allow folks to bring
in equipment to fix it get running? Was sort of curious when hanging out
in their library area thinking it's a lot like all my bookshelves for
things I haven't done but could. I feel like I saw software there also.
Though
On 05/29/2020 03:05 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
Just to make sure everyone knows that we haven't lost our minds:
Nothing is going in the skip/dumpster/e-waste recycling bin. It's a long
pause, that's all.
Well, that's a relief, at least!
Jon
On 05/29/2020 02:38 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> From: Jon Elson
> As far as I know, there was no VM/360. There WAS VM/370, which was out
> in the early 1970's
CP/67, which was a semi-product, and ran only on 360/67's, was basically the
same functionality as VM/370. (I
On 5/29/2020 4:06 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
On May 29, 2020, at 4:25 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk
wrote:
C is portable by design and runs on many architectures.
It doesn't need 512Kb of RAM and it doesn't depend on Unix.
Yes. But the same is true for many languages. Fortran is a
A, Rich, now you've gone and taken all the mystery out of it, and the
fun of complaining about something over which we have no control! Unfair
to Local 12 of the Villains, Thieves, and Scoundrels Union! :D
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 2:25 PM Rich Alderson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> On May 29, 2020, at 4:25 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> C is portable by design and runs on many architectures.
> It doesn't need 512Kb of RAM and it doesn't depend on Unix.
Yes. But the same is true for many languages. Fortran is a particularly good
example, but there are
On Fri, 29 May 2020, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
Just to make sure everyone knows that we haven't lost our minds:
Nothing is going in the skip/dumpster/e-waste recycling bin. It's a
long pause, that's all.
It's not you guys we're worried about. It's those skeezy shitbirds at
Vulcan
On 2020-05-29 4:05 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
> Just to make sure everyone knows that we haven't lost our minds:
>
> Nothing is going in the skip/dumpster/e-waste recycling bin. It's a long
> pause, that's all.
>
>
After one completely out of the blue move, there will be no further
Thank you.
From: "cctalk"
To: "Electronics Plus" , "cctalk"
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 1:05:17 PM
Subject: RE: Living Computer Museum
Just to make sure everyone knows that we haven't lost our minds:
Nothing is going in the skip/dumpster/e-waste recycling bin. It's a long pause,
that's
Just to make sure everyone knows that we haven't lost our minds:
Nothing is going in the skip/dumpster/e-waste recycling bin. It's a long
pause, that's all.
Rich Alderson
ex-Sr. Systems Engineer/Curator emeritus
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Ave S
Seattle, WA 98134
Cell: (206)
C is portable by design and runs on many architectures.
It doesn't need 512Kb of RAM and it doesn't depend on Unix.
From: "cctalk"
To: "cctalk"
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 1:20:56 PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC
On 5/29/2020 12:42 PM, John Foust via cctalk wrote:
> At
On 5/29/2020 12:42 PM, John Foust via cctalk wrote:
At 10:59 AM 5/29/2020, Jecel Assumpcao Jr via cctech wrote:
The modern variation of the Turing Tarpit. At least they come to this
illusion honestly given that you even have people who think implementing
Forth in C is the way to go.
What, are
> From: Jon Elson
> As far as I know, there was no VM/360. There WAS VM/370, which was out
> in the early 1970's
CP/67, which was a semi-product, and ran only on 360/67's, was basically the
same functionality as VM/370. (I get the impression that the code was
descended from CP/67,
At 10:59 AM 5/29/2020, Jecel Assumpcao Jr via cctech wrote:
>The modern variation of the Turing Tarpit. At least they come to this
>illusion honestly given that you even have people who think implementing
>Forth in C is the way to go.
What, are you saying that someone couldn't write some Perl or
On 5/29/2020 12:34 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 5/29/20 10:57 AM, TeoZ via cctalk wrote:
All this shows me is that in principal people will pick the extreme ends
of a topic to fight about but in reality once you get into specifics and
details most people are really in the middle and
Nice work.
Marc
From: cctalk on behalf of
"cctalk@classiccmp.org"
Reply-To: Liam Proven , "cctalk@classiccmp.org"
Date: Friday, May 29, 2020 at 9:02 AM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org"
Subject: Building an IBM 3270 terminal controller
On 5/29/20 10:57 AM, TeoZ via cctalk wrote:
> All this shows me is that in principal people will pick the extreme ends
> of a topic to fight about but in reality once you get into specifics and
> details most people are really in the middle and tend to agree on what
> should be done (in most
All this shows me is that in principal people will pick the extreme ends of
a topic to fight about but in reality once you get into specifics and
details most people are really in the middle and tend to agree on what
should be done (in most cases).
You can argue to the point of violence if a
On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 7:24 PM Liam Proven via cctalk
wrote:
> We had simple cheap low-spec computers because American high-end
> computers were impossibly expensive.
There were also some pretty high-spec British microcomputers, but they
tended to flop owing to the price. Things like the HH
On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 18:17, Toby Thain via cctalk
wrote:
> >
> > And I have had earnest youngsters on Twitter and elsewhere very
> > seriously tell me that _no_ language could even theoretically be
> > immune to the problems of C, because _all_ languages are implemented
> > in C at the lowest
Noel,
I can I hope get the backplane and complete 11/44 that goes with it, plus
the RK06 or RK07 (I forget which). If you or anyone is really interested I
can try to track this one down. I have been trying to get through to the
owner, he has not returned my calls, but he's a nice guy and I hope
On 2020-05-29 8:20 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
> On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 21:40, John Ames wrote:
>
>> Agreed. While I'm much more favorably disposed towards C than you are,
>> the increasing homogeneity of almost all modern languages is
>> discouraging ...
>
> Indeed so.
>
> And I have
Liam Proven wrote on Fri, 29 May 2020 14:20:53 +0200
> And I have had earnest youngsters on Twitter and elsewhere very
> seriously tell me that _no_ language could even theoretically be
> immune to the problems of C, because _all_ languages are implemented
> in C at the lowest level.
The modern
https://ajk.me/building-an-ibm-3270-terminal-controller
--
Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal):
-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
via cctalk
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 10:57 AM
To: 'Daniel Seagraves'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: Living Computer Museum
> -Original Message-
On 5/29/2020 7:27 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> "DO NOT just keep the boards, and discard the box, bulkhead panels, cables,
> etc. Everyone does that, as a result of which we are now over-supplied with
> boards - but the cables, boxes etc are now rare (un-obtainium in some cases
> ..)
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk On Behalf Of Daniel Seagraves
> via cctalk
> Sent: 29 May 2020 14:04
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Living Computer Museum
>
> I’ve been just kinda skimming along in this thread, I’ve been busy; Just wanna
>
Thanks Noel: The boards are not RK611 controller boards, they seem to go
in the drives themselves, maybe.
m7706, m7906, m7908,m7907
I don't remember RK07's much, they were quickly replaced by RL02's in
the world I lived in. Kind of odd little ducks.
I'm just trying to get rid of junk, and
On Fri, 29 May 2020, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote:
I’ve been just kinda skimming along in this thread, I’ve been busy; Just wanna
make sure I have everything down...
0: If you sent anything to a museum, you’ve been fleeced - you’re an idiot.
1: If you didn’t send anything to a museum,
At 08:04 AM 5/29/2020, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote:
>Iâve been just kinda skimming along in this thread, Iâve been busy; Just
>wanna make sure I have everything down...
"Anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone
going faster than you is a maniac" - George Carlin
- John
I’ve been just kinda skimming along in this thread, I’ve been busy; Just wanna
make sure I have everything down...
0: If you sent anything to a museum, you’ve been fleeced - you’re an idiot.
1: If you didn’t send anything to a museum, you’re a hoarder - you’re an idiot.
2: If you send things to
On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 21:40, John Ames wrote:
> Agreed. While I'm much more favorably disposed towards C than you are,
> the increasing homogeneity of almost all modern languages is
> discouraging and, I think, detrimental to the field as a whole. Forth
> and Smalltalk alike were eye-openers
On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 21:47, Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
>
> On Tue, 26 May 2020, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
> >>> I do not know what a "sheering section" means.
> >> Typo: "cheering". :-)
> >
> > Aha! I still didn't know, but that, I could Google. Gotcha.
>
> In USA urban slang, "sheep" is
> From: Bill Degnan
`
>> I think I have a spare set of boards for the controller.
> I might be interested if no one else wants this.
You'll need a backplane too - and that's non-trivial. (I'm in the process of
producing one for a KE11-A.) The RK611 is a 9-slot (although several slots
Mark Kahrs wrote:
> As a past occasional maintainer of SAIL, I'll add my version of history
Found in the source code:
There was a compiler named SAIL,
Assembled and coded in FAIL.
Its authors, they say
(one glorious day)
Were run out of town on a rail.
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