Re: Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

What about the M9300 board? Do you have an idea what the purpose is of that
card? It look a bit like a M9302 but with more logic on it and a few
jumpers and a LED. It also have a delay line and a monostable flip-flop.

Here is a photo of a (dusty) M9300:
http://forum.datormuseum.se/data/B21AEA95-02C2-402B-BC97-06790BAEDC88/84B52290-D267-46C8-8B65-1A3EFEF7916B.jpg

/Mattis

fredag 25 februari 2022 skrev Noel Chiappa via cctalk :

> First, a minor correction:
>
> > the M8264 Sack Timeout module ... there's next to nothing in print
> > about them
>
> There is also some coverage in EK-KD11E-TM-001, at: Section 4.7.2.4 "M8264
> NO-SACK Timeout Module" (pg. 4-41, pg. 87 of the PDF), which I found while
> looking for parity stuff (below).
>
>
> > From: Fritz Mueller
>
> > The KD11-E is pretty bare boned... Parity handling was also a quad
> "add on".
>
> ??? The KD11-E/EA doesn't do much with parity (below), so at first I
> thought
> that maybe you were thinking of the M7850 Parity Controller (which is
> actually a memory option, not KD11-E/EA specific; more below), but that's a
> dual card.
>
> The KD11-E/EA does not (like most PDP-11's) calculate parity; PDP-11 memory
> units do all the work, and signal 'parity error detected' to the CPU over
> the
> UNIBUS (using the PB line); the CPU will trap when it sees that (if
> enabled;
> the KD11-E and -EA can disable recognition of parity errors, with jumpers).
>
> See Section 4.7.2.7, "Parity Errors", in EK-KD11E-TM-001 (at pg. 4-45, pg.
> 91
> of the PDF); the circuit diagram is on page K2-1 of the KD11-E/EA FMPS.
>
> The M7850 has to be in the same backplane as the memory, but that can be a
> different backplane from the one holding the CPU. So it can be 15' away, at
> the other end of a UNIBUS cable.
>
> Anyway, can you say more about the parity add-on?
>
>
> >> So if i) a device requests a grant, and then drops the request at
> >> _just_ the right time ... and ii) there's a break in that grant line
> >> ... before it gets to the M9302, which can turn it around as a SACK
> ,
> >> then ... the KD11-E CPU will hang!
>
> > I believe a broken grant chain with an M9302 in place on the far side
> > results in the grant being pulled up at the M9302, and then
> continuous
> > assertion of SACK, hanging the processor straight out the gate.
>
> Oh, right you are! (I'm glad _your_ brain is runed on - unlike mine! :-)
>
> I happen to have an -11/04 (the -11/34's sibling) on the bench in my work
> room, with one of Guy's very useful UA11's plugged into it. (BTW, the UA11:
>
>   http://www.shiresoft.com/products/ua11/Unibus%20Analyzer.html
>
> is fantastically useful as a UNIBUS debugging tool. Everyone working on
> UNIBUS machines should have one.) So I thought I'd go try an experiment.
>
>
> It turned out to be a bit more complicated than I thought, but you're
> basically right: a break in the grant lines (e.g. missing grant continuity
> card) causes the downstream card to 'see' 'phantom' incoming grants (open
> TTL
> inputs float high), and signal a grant on from there; and if there's an
> M9302
> at the end of the bus, it will see that and jam SACK on.
>
> The complication was that when I powered the machine on, it turned out that
> something was asserting SACK when the machine was halted; if I put it into
> a
> 'BR .' loop, that goes away. I looked, and the KD11-D doesn't even _have_ a
> SACK driver! So I tried un-plugging the KY11-LB, and the 'SACK on halt'
> went
> away. (That machine has core, and I set the power-on vector to halt the
> machine.)
>
> Looking at the KY11-LB manual, it does in fact assert SACK (after it has
> sent
> the KD11 a 'halt request, and receives a 'halt acknowledge'), to recognize
> the CPU's acknowledgement of the halt request. (I have yet to check and
> see if
> the KY11-LB asserts SACK if the CPU halts on its own accord - probably
> 'yes',
> but that's a project for tomorrow.)
>
>
> The thing that's puzzling me is that the M8264 seems to exactly replicate
> the
> functionality of the M9302, with an 'unused' bus grant being turned into a
> SACK. So I don't understand the point of the M8264. Whether the cause of
> the
> grant is a rare timing window of a bus request being cancelled, or a broken
> grant line; with an M9302 in the system, a SACK will result.
>
> The only difference between the two is that because of the way grant lines
> are wired, the M8264 will not respond to a broken grant line 'downstream'
> of
> the M8264.
>
> The M8264 does add this capability to a system using an M930 terminator -
> but
> just switching to an M902 would be simpler. And the M9302 pre-dates the
> M8264, as we can see from EK-11034-OP-PRE2. So I'm really quite confused as
> to what the point of the M8264 was.
>
>Noel
>

Re: Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

> On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:24 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
> wrote:
> … at first I thought that maybe you were thinking of the M7850 Parity 
> Controller (which is
> actually a memory option, not KD11-E/EA specific; more below), but that's a
> dual card.

Yes, I was thinking of the M7850, but I had forgotten this was just a dual card!

I think I had come to think of it as a CPU option because at some point during 
the /34 restoration that I did last year I got to the place of “oh, I needn’t 
bother trying to running the parity MAINDECs because I don’t have an M7850”, 
which felt sort of like “I needn’t bother trying to run floating point MAINDECs 
because I don’t have floating point...”  So alas, nothing exotic for you here, 
Noel -- just some sloppy thinking on my part :-)

> The complication was that when I powered the machine on, it turned out that
> something was asserting SACK when the machine was halted; if I put it into a
> 'BR .' loop, that goes away.

That is quite interesting, and not what I would have expected!

> Looking at the KY11-LB manual, it does in fact assert SACK (after it has sent
> the KD11 a 'halt request, and receives a 'halt acknowledge'), to recognize
> the CPU's acknowledgement of the halt request.

I ran into this when I started using one of Jeorg’s “Unibone” cards with my 
/34.  When the Unibone is in place and jumped to take grants, those grant 
chains are open at power up until the Unibone’s own control software can boot.  
So after power on my machine (w/ KY11-LB) would be jammed and inoperable from 
the front panel until the Unibone was booted.

> The thing that's puzzling me is that the M8264 seems to exactly replicate the
> functionality of the M9302, with an 'unused' bus grant being turned into a
> SACK. So I don't understand the point of the M8264.

I think the only difference would be that since the M8264 is timer based, it 
doesn’t need the intact end-to-end path required for turnaround.  So your bus 
won’t lock even if you have a broken grant chain or a poorly behaved or hung 
device eating grants.  I think my /45 has this built-in (will check later).  I 
would *guess* that the M9302 was just a “poor man’s SACK timeout”, and the 8264 
was offered later to shore that up to a real timeout for applications where it 
mattered?

cheers!
—FritzM.

Re: Is The M9312 Boot Module Essential?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

First, a minor correction:

> the M8264 Sack Timeout module ... there's next to nothing in print
> about them

There is also some coverage in EK-KD11E-TM-001, at: Section 4.7.2.4 "M8264
NO-SACK Timeout Module" (pg. 4-41, pg. 87 of the PDF), which I found while
looking for parity stuff (below).


> From: Fritz Mueller

> The KD11-E is pretty bare boned... Parity handling was also a quad "add 
on".

??? The KD11-E/EA doesn't do much with parity (below), so at first I thought
that maybe you were thinking of the M7850 Parity Controller (which is
actually a memory option, not KD11-E/EA specific; more below), but that's a
dual card.

The KD11-E/EA does not (like most PDP-11's) calculate parity; PDP-11 memory
units do all the work, and signal 'parity error detected' to the CPU over the
UNIBUS (using the PB line); the CPU will trap when it sees that (if enabled;
the KD11-E and -EA can disable recognition of parity errors, with jumpers).

See Section 4.7.2.7, "Parity Errors", in EK-KD11E-TM-001 (at pg. 4-45, pg. 91
of the PDF); the circuit diagram is on page K2-1 of the KD11-E/EA FMPS.

The M7850 has to be in the same backplane as the memory, but that can be a
different backplane from the one holding the CPU. So it can be 15' away, at
the other end of a UNIBUS cable.

Anyway, can you say more about the parity add-on?


>> So if i) a device requests a grant, and then drops the request at
>> _just_ the right time ... and ii) there's a break in that grant line
>> ... before it gets to the M9302, which can turn it around as a SACK ,
>> then ... the KD11-E CPU will hang!

> I believe a broken grant chain with an M9302 in place on the far side
> results in the grant being pulled up at the M9302, and then continuous
> assertion of SACK, hanging the processor straight out the gate.

Oh, right you are! (I'm glad _your_ brain is runed on - unlike mine! :-)

I happen to have an -11/04 (the -11/34's sibling) on the bench in my work
room, with one of Guy's very useful UA11's plugged into it. (BTW, the UA11:

  http://www.shiresoft.com/products/ua11/Unibus%20Analyzer.html

is fantastically useful as a UNIBUS debugging tool. Everyone working on
UNIBUS machines should have one.) So I thought I'd go try an experiment.


It turned out to be a bit more complicated than I thought, but you're
basically right: a break in the grant lines (e.g. missing grant continuity
card) causes the downstream card to 'see' 'phantom' incoming grants (open TTL
inputs float high), and signal a grant on from there; and if there's an M9302
at the end of the bus, it will see that and jam SACK on.

The complication was that when I powered the machine on, it turned out that
something was asserting SACK when the machine was halted; if I put it into a
'BR .' loop, that goes away. I looked, and the KD11-D doesn't even _have_ a
SACK driver! So I tried un-plugging the KY11-LB, and the 'SACK on halt' went
away. (That machine has core, and I set the power-on vector to halt the
machine.)

Looking at the KY11-LB manual, it does in fact assert SACK (after it has sent
the KD11 a 'halt request, and receives a 'halt acknowledge'), to recognize
the CPU's acknowledgement of the halt request. (I have yet to check and see if
the KY11-LB asserts SACK if the CPU halts on its own accord - probably 'yes',
but that's a project for tomorrow.)


The thing that's puzzling me is that the M8264 seems to exactly replicate the
functionality of the M9302, with an 'unused' bus grant being turned into a
SACK. So I don't understand the point of the M8264. Whether the cause of the
grant is a rare timing window of a bus request being cancelled, or a broken
grant line; with an M9302 in the system, a SACK will result. 

The only difference between the two is that because of the way grant lines
are wired, the M8264 will not respond to a broken grant line 'downstream' of
the M8264.

The M8264 does add this capability to a system using an M930 terminator - but
just switching to an M902 would be simpler. And the M9302 pre-dates the
M8264, as we can see from EK-11034-OP-PRE2. So I'm really quite confused as
to what the point of the M8264 was.

   Noel

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022, 12:47 PM Clemar Folly via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> This chip is from a cartridge for the Atari 2600. The board is not mine.
> I'm trying to help identify the IC.
>
> It's the PCB of the AtariAge post.
>
> I had already looked in the Texas data book and found nothing.
>

Then it is almost certainly a custom ROM of some flavor

Warner


Thanks.
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 3:44 PM jim stephens via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > The thread with the photograph had an Ebay source for the part.
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/151010204380
> >
> > doesn't help with function, or with the solder blob jumper purpose (or
> > booboo) but can get the part for some amount if they ship to Brazil.
> >
> >
> > On 2/24/2022 10:24 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> > > I have a pretty complete set of TI books, there are no chips that begin
> > > with TB-n.  There are many chips that start with T, but none that
> > match
> > > your chip ID
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 1:21 PM Paul Koning via cctalk <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>> On Feb 24, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk <
> > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >>> On 2022-Feb-24, at 8:29 AM, Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:
> >  I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.
> > 
> >  Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this
> IC?
> > >>>
> > >>> A search shows this question was posted over here, with a picture:
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> https://atariage.com/forums/topic/331769-unknown-cart-ic-please-i-need-some-help/
> > >>
> > >> Wow, that's a sorry looking board.  It looks like it was assembled by
> > >> someone using a soldering gun and acid-core solder.  But most plumbers
> > >> would do better work than that.
> > >>
> > >>  paul
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
>

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2022-Feb-24, at 11:32 AM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
> On 2022-02-24 14:16, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
>> On 2022-Feb-24, at 8:29 AM, Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:
>>> I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.
>>> 
>>> Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?
>> 
>> A search shows this question was posted over here, with a picture:
>>  
>> https://atariage.com/forums/topic/331769-unknown-cart-ic-please-i-need-some-help/
>> 
>> It looks like a home-made board for a plug-in ROM expansion for 
>> we-are-not-told.
>> The "TB 759933" is 14-pin DIP, dated coded 7226, has a house number of "239 
>> 2100", but it's on a board with a 27256 from 1985.
>> It looks like somebody hacked up this board with on-hand parts.
>> 
>> 60 seconds of reverse-enginerring from the limited view in the picture 
>> suggests it's likely involved in the address decoding to select the on-board 
>> EPROM. The 759933 interconnects with a 74LS10. The LS10 appears to have 
>> connections to the chip-select and output-enable of the 27256 EPROM.
>> 
>> TB 759933 is not a standard TI number but TI sometimes identified parts they 
>> were second-sourcing by embedding the original number in an expanded number.
>> 
>> So a guess is this is a 933 DTL dual 4-input (AND function) expander, being 
>> used not-strictly-correctly to drive a TTL input.
>> 
>> The 933 should be basically 2*4 diodes.
>> 
>> A complete reverse-engineering of this trivial board would likely explain 
>> the overall intended function.

> 2392100 Look like an IBM house number for a 7400 quad NAND
> 
> Paul.


Glad you said that, I wondered whether that might be IBM, but I'm not very 
familiar with their numbers and don't have a xref.

7400 makes some sense with the board: pins 1&2 and 4&5 are blobbed together, 
i.e. acting as inverters; and the interconnections with the LS10 as far as can 
be seen appear to then make sense as outputs-inputs.

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Clemar Folly via cctalk]

This chip is from a cartridge for the Atari 2600. The board is not mine.
I'm trying to help identify the IC.

It's the PCB of the AtariAge post.

I had already looked in the Texas data book and found nothing.

Thanks.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 3:44 PM jim stephens via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> The thread with the photograph had an Ebay source for the part.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/151010204380
>
> doesn't help with function, or with the solder blob jumper purpose (or
> booboo) but can get the part for some amount if they ship to Brazil.
>
>
> On 2/24/2022 10:24 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> > I have a pretty complete set of TI books, there are no chips that begin
> > with TB-n.  There are many chips that start with T, but none that
> match
> > your chip ID
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 1:21 PM Paul Koning via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> On Feb 24, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk <
> >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>> On 2022-Feb-24, at 8:29 AM, Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:
>  I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.
> 
>  Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?
> >>>
> >>> A search shows this question was posted over here, with a picture:
> >>>
> >>
> https://atariage.com/forums/topic/331769-unknown-cart-ic-please-i-need-some-help/
> >>
> >> Wow, that's a sorry looking board.  It looks like it was assembled by
> >> someone using a soldering gun and acid-core solder.  But most plumbers
> >> would do better work than that.
> >>
> >>  paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

2392100 Look like an IBM house number for a 7400 quad NAND

Paul.

On 2022-02-24 14:16, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

On 2022-Feb-24, at 8:29 AM, Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:

I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.

Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?


A search shows this question was posted over here, with a picture:

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/331769-unknown-cart-ic-please-i-need-some-help/

It looks like a home-made board for a plug-in ROM expansion for we-are-not-told.
The "TB 759933" is 14-pin DIP, dated coded 7226, has a house number of "239 
2100", but it's on a board with a 27256 from 1985.
It looks like somebody hacked up this board with on-hand parts.

60 seconds of reverse-enginerring from the limited view in the picture suggests 
it's likely involved in the address decoding to select the on-board EPROM. The 
759933 interconnects with a 74LS10. The LS10 appears to have connections to the 
chip-select and output-enable of the 27256 EPROM.

TB 759933 is not a standard TI number but TI sometimes identified parts they 
were second-sourcing by embedding the original number in an expanded number.

So a guess is this is a 933 DTL dual 4-input (AND function) expander, being 
used not-strictly-correctly to drive a TTL input.

The 933 should be basically 2*4 diodes.

A complete reverse-engineering of this trivial board would likely explain the 
overall intended function.

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[jim stephens via cctalk]

The thread with the photograph had an Ebay source for the part.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/151010204380

doesn't help with function, or with the solder blob jumper purpose (or 
booboo) but can get the part for some amount if they ship to Brazil.



On 2/24/2022 10:24 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

I have a pretty complete set of TI books, there are no chips that begin
with TB-n.  There are many chips that start with T, but none that match
your chip ID

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 1:21 PM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:




On Feb 24, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk <

cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

On 2022-Feb-24, at 8:29 AM, Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:

I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.

Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?


A search shows this question was posted over here, with a picture:


https://atariage.com/forums/topic/331769-unknown-cart-ic-please-i-need-some-help/

Wow, that's a sorry looking board.  It looks like it was assembled by
someone using a soldering gun and acid-core solder.  But most plumbers
would do better work than that.

 paul

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

I have a pretty complete set of TI books, there are no chips that begin
with TB-n.  There are many chips that start with T, but none that match
your chip ID

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 1:21 PM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > On Feb 24, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 2022-Feb-24, at 8:29 AM, Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.
> >>
> >> Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?
> >
> >
> > A search shows this question was posted over here, with a picture:
> >
> https://atariage.com/forums/topic/331769-unknown-cart-ic-please-i-need-some-help/
>
> Wow, that's a sorry looking board.  It looks like it was assembled by
> someone using a soldering gun and acid-core solder.  But most plumbers
> would do better work than that.
>
> paul
>
>
>

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Feb 24, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2022-Feb-24, at 8:29 AM, Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.
>> 
>> Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?
> 
> 
> A search shows this question was posted over here, with a picture:
>   
> https://atariage.com/forums/topic/331769-unknown-cart-ic-please-i-need-some-help/

Wow, that's a sorry looking board.  It looks like it was assembled by someone 
using a soldering gun and acid-core solder.  But most plumbers would do better 
work than that.

paul

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[jim stephens via cctalk]

Could be speaking ahead of answers here, but TI had an entire internal 
PN system for their parts in the 70s (I dealt with it in 75) and they 
did it to stop people from doing component level repairs on such as TI 
silent 700s.  I don't think there's a common P/N part in those.


I couldn't get the internal to "real public" part number equivalency 
list and I was just a wet behind the ears EE trying to maintain 40 of 
them for a college, and quite pissed off that they did that. Some were 
figured out but most weren't.


They wanted upwards of the value of the units for parts, and were aholes 
in my book.  The Silent 700s weren't the only thing they pulled that on.


So if you have a schematic and what it came out of someone here or on a 
circuits or specialized list which deals with TI shenanigans might be 
able to guess what it is and what would replace it.


May not be this, someone may have a book with it in it, but I avoid TI 
at all costs for this reason. Enough problems with old electronics w/o 
dealing with crap like this.


thanks
Jim

On 2/24/2022 10:01 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:

On 2022-02-24 9:29 a.m., Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:

Hi

I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.

Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?

Thanks.

I forgot to ask, What kind of package?
Ben.

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Brent Hilpert via cctalk]

On 2022-Feb-24, at 8:29 AM, Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.
> 
> Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?


A search shows this question was posted over here, with a picture:

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/331769-unknown-cart-ic-please-i-need-some-help/

It looks like a home-made board for a plug-in ROM expansion for we-are-not-told.
The "TB 759933" is 14-pin DIP, dated coded 7226, has a house number of "239 
2100", but it's on a board with a 27256 from 1985.
It looks like somebody hacked up this board with on-hand parts.

60 seconds of reverse-enginerring from the limited view in the picture suggests 
it's likely involved in the address decoding to select the on-board EPROM. The 
759933 interconnects with a 74LS10. The LS10 appears to have connections to the 
chip-select and output-enable of the 27256 EPROM.

TB 759933 is not a standard TI number but TI sometimes identified parts they 
were second-sourcing by embedding the original number in an expanded number.

So a guess is this is a 933 DTL dual 4-input (AND function) expander, being 
used not-strictly-correctly to drive a TTL input.

The 933 should be basically 2*4 diodes.

A complete reverse-engineering of this trivial board would likely explain the 
overall intended function.

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

I checked my 70's era IC books for TI.  There is no TB-759933 that I can
find.
Bill

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 12:54 PM Bill Degnan  wrote:

> is there a date code?
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 12:10 PM ben via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-02-24 9:29 a.m., Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>>
>> What is the native habitat of this chip? Mother board, I/O, calculator
>> or clock,washing machine, toaster, car?
>> Ben.
>>
>

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

>> On 2022-02-24 9:29 a.m., Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> What is the native habitat of this chip? Mother board, I/O, calculator
>> or clock,washing machine, toaster, car?
>> Ben.
>>


Sounds like a house number to me.  Can you post a photo?

--Chuck

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[ben via cctalk]

On 2022-02-24 9:29 a.m., Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:

Hi

I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.

Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?

Thanks.

I forgot to ask, What kind of package?
Ben.

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

is there a date code?


On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 12:10 PM ben via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 2022-02-24 9:29 a.m., Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.
> >
> > Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> What is the native habitat of this chip? Mother board, I/O, calculator
> or clock,washing machine, toaster, car?
> Ben.
>

Re: Information about an unknown IC

[ben via cctalk]

On 2022-02-24 9:29 a.m., Clemar Folly via cctalk wrote:

Hi

I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.

Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?

Thanks.


What is the native habitat of this chip? Mother board, I/O, calculator
or clock,washing machine, toaster, car?
Ben.

Information about an unknown IC

[Clemar Folly via cctalk]

Hi

I'm looking for information about Texas Instruments TB-759933 IC.

Does anyone have the datasheet or any other information about this IC?

Thanks.

Re: Seeking paper tape punch

[Guy Fedorkow via cctalk]

hi Steve,
  There's lots of raw material out there.  Al Kossow read hundreds of 
tapes a couple years ago, and posted the images at

http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/MIT/whirlwind/X4222.2008_Whirlwind_ptp/
  Whirlwind and modern readers disagree on what order the bits come in, 
but other than that, the files are perfectly usable.  We have some of 
the programs running in simulation, as you've seen.
  The Whirlwind tapes in the archive are all seven-level tapes punched 
on 7/8" paper.

  Let me know if there's something I can help with
/guy



Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:24:18 +1000
From:ste...@malikoff.com
To: "ben", "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts"
Subject: Re: Seeking paper tape punch
Message-ID:
<78ae9afacbca8b3ca7e7a41c677659d0.squir...@webmail04.register.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8

Ben said


This requires a REAL MACHINE SHOP ...  none this 3d printer stuff. I
would recommend a building a 35mm film punch and reader, as film stock
is still easy to find compared to paper tape. Zuse used them for his
computers in Germany on the 40's. Quality Mechanical stuff is lost high
tech.


Consumer-grade CNC stencil cutters are fine at cutting plastic sheet and should 
be ok with film stock.
My ptap2dxf (latest version 1.3) will produce output to cut tapes for 8-level 
ASCII, 5-level Baudot, 2-level Morse (Wheatstone and
Cable Code), 7-level Whirlwind, Teletype Chadless and some customising options 
too.
Still some other formats to do such as Colossus etc. Thanks for the notion of 
making Zuse tape, will look into it.

Steve.

Re: Tandon TM 848-02

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 2/24/22 07:51, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:




On 24 Feb 2022, at 12:21, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
wrote:

On 2/24/22 01:09, Mike Stein wrote:

P 1-17 of the Service Manual


What manual?  I understand the one on bitsavers is for the
848 and not the 848-02 which has a completely different logic
board.  Have I been misinformed?



This is the one I have, it covers both -1 and -2 since they're the same board, 
only the number of heads is different.

https://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/TandonTM848ServiceGuide.pdf 




Thank you I grabbed it.  Should be a big help.

bill

Re: Tandon TM 848-02

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 24 Feb 2022, at 12:21, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2/24/22 01:09, Mike Stein wrote:
>> P 1-17 of the Service Manual
> 
> What manual?  I understand the one on bitsavers is for the
> 848 and not the 848-02 which has a completely different logic
> board.  Have I been misinformed?


This is the one I have, it covers both -1 and -2 since they're the same board, 
only the number of heads is different.

https://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/TandonTM848ServiceGuide.pdf 


Cheers,

-- 
Adrian Graham
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: Tandon TM 848-02

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 2/24/22 01:09, Mike Stein wrote:

P 1-17 of the Service Manual



What manual?  I understand the one on bitsavers is for the
848 and not the 848-02 which has a completely different logic
board.  Have I been misinformed?

bill

Re: 11/83 operating system load update -2

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

MicroRSX V1

Partitions - YIK - DU.SYS gets you 8 . SYSGEN more.

I have no MFM drives and loads of SCSI.

How much of a drive gets used - IDC

R



On 24/02/2022 11:19, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:

What version of MicroRSX?

Remember RT11 has a limit of 33mb disk partitions, might want to just 
get 30mb MFM drives and run it off the RQDX3


C

On 2/24/2022 5:13 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

I already have a Linux system (Ubuntu v20) the problem is

I have no hardware that would run Linux and has a floppy controller.

However thats no longer a problem as I have obtained a full original 
MicroRSX distribution on RX50.


But thats not the end of the story.  RT-11 is next

R


On 24/02/2022 08:35, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 15:50, Paul Koning via cctalk
 wrote:
I think you're unnecessarily limiting your options by refusing to 
use Linux, which as we've pointed out is something you can do on 
your existing PC without overwriting the OS that is on it now.

I agree. The same thought crossed my mind, in fact.

A small distro such as Slax – https://www.slax.org/ – would fit onto a
single CD-ROM, boot and run entirely from that disk and does not need
to touch the hard disk.

If the machine has a DVD-ROM, then a larger distro such as PC Linux OS
will do the job too. No installation needed.

https://www.pclinuxos.com/

Re: 11/83 operating system load update -2

[Chris Zach via cctalk]

What version of MicroRSX?

Remember RT11 has a limit of 33mb disk partitions, might want to just 
get 30mb MFM drives and run it off the RQDX3


C

On 2/24/2022 5:13 AM, Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:

I already have a Linux system (Ubuntu v20) the problem is

I have no hardware that would run Linux and has a floppy controller.

However thats no longer a problem as I have obtained a full original 
MicroRSX distribution on RX50.


But thats not the end of the story.  RT-11 is next

R


On 24/02/2022 08:35, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 15:50, Paul Koning via cctalk
 wrote:
I think you're unnecessarily limiting your options by refusing to use 
Linux, which as we've pointed out is something you can do on your 
existing PC without overwriting the OS that is on it now.

I agree. The same thought crossed my mind, in fact.

A small distro such as Slax – https://www.slax.org/ – would fit onto a
single CD-ROM, boot and run entirely from that disk and does not need
to touch the hard disk.

If the machine has a DVD-ROM, then a larger distro such as PC Linux OS
will do the job too. No installation needed.

https://www.pclinuxos.com/

Re: 11/83 operating system load update -2

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

I already have a Linux system (Ubuntu v20) the problem is

I have no hardware that would run Linux and has a floppy controller.

However thats no longer a problem as I have obtained a full original 
MicroRSX distribution on RX50.


But thats not the end of the story.  RT-11 is next

R


On 24/02/2022 08:35, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 15:50, Paul Koning via cctalk
 wrote:

I think you're unnecessarily limiting your options by refusing to use Linux, 
which as we've pointed out is something you can do on your existing PC without 
overwriting the OS that is on it now.

I agree. The same thought crossed my mind, in fact.

A small distro such as Slax – https://www.slax.org/ – would fit onto a
single CD-ROM, boot and run entirely from that disk and does not need
to touch the hard disk.

If the machine has a DVD-ROM, then a larger distro such as PC Linux OS
will do the job too. No installation needed.

https://www.pclinuxos.com/

Re: 11/83 operating system load update -2

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 19:04, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
 wrote:

> Maybe for Win95, but Win98 and later uses its own 32-bit port drivers
> (I'm not certain about 95 OSR2).

98 and 98SE are still loaded from DOS and you can shut down and exit
to DOS again too, if you know how. There's no functional difference.

> If running 98 or 95, just do a "shutdown to MS-DOS prompt", rather than
> opening a DOS Window and you'll be fine.

I don't think 98 has that option. I know WinME does not.

I would recommend booting to DOS (pressing F5 at startup should be enough).

-- 
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

Re: 11/83 operating system load update -2

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 15:50, Paul Koning via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> I think you're unnecessarily limiting your options by refusing to use Linux, 
> which as we've pointed out is something you can do on your existing PC 
> without overwriting the OS that is on it now.

I agree. The same thought crossed my mind, in fact.

A small distro such as Slax – https://www.slax.org/ – would fit onto a
single CD-ROM, boot and run entirely from that disk and does not need
to touch the hard disk.

If the machine has a DVD-ROM, then a larger distro such as PC Linux OS
will do the job too. No installation needed.

https://www.pclinuxos.com/

-- 
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

RE: 11/83 OS load - problem solved.

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

If images don't exist would it be possible to image them and get them on 
BitSavers?

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Rod Smallwood
> via cctalk
> Sent: 24 February 2022 08:05
> To: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
> Subject: 11/83 OS load - problem solved.
> 
> Hi
> 
>   Well I now have a full set of DEC orignal MicroRSX RX50 distribution 
> disks.
> 
> An old friend who I worked with at DEC had kept his install go bag and there
> they where. Not only that they are good and do boot.
> 
> Its not over, RT-11 would be a better fit so I'm looking at that.
> 
> Rod

11/83 OS load - problem solved.

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

Hi

 Well I now have a full set of DEC orignal MicroRSX RX50 
distribution disks.


An old friend who I worked with at DEC had kept his install go bag and 
there they where. Not only that they are good and do boot.


Its not over, RT-11 would be a better fit so I'm looking at that.

Rod