[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
Oh, funny, I was just thinking of asking this same question as I resurrect a Mac G4 from about 2001, running Mac OS 9 (not OS X). There's a whole website and forum[1] for that, though. I read this list a lot more than I post. I enjoy some of the tales of old machines, especially anything DEC. Sometimes I learn things from tangentially off-topic posts (like discussions of software tools and image file formats best for making archival copies of documentation, or the best formulation for trapping fruit flies in the kitchen). Personally, I'm not very interested in C64, TRS-80, or peecees, but that's just me. It takes me a trivial amount of time to delete a message and move on to the next if I'm not interested. Since the average traffic is low, I don't have a problem with a low bar for "on topic". Perhaps a good but blurry line is "old enough not to be of much practical use anymore for most people, but significant in the history of computing for some reason"? [1] http://www.macos9lives.com, for anyone else playing with such toys.
simulation of an entire IBM S/360 Model 50 mainframe
This might be old news to a lot of people here, but I noticed a fun article on The Register today: Hardware boffin is building a simulation of an entire IBM S/360 Model 50 mainframe https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/27/ibm_s360_simulation/ The article has a handy link to a post on Ken Shirriff's blog: https://www.righto.com/2022/01/ibm360model50.html While I'm kind of a "DEC guy", I still have a certain nostalgic fondness for the IBM System/360, since that was my first in-depth exposure to computer programming.
RE: Hard To Believe This Person Is Serious
On Fri, 2021-03-26 at 10:41 -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Q: what does "FURBISH" mean? According to the OED: 1) Remove the rust from, burnish, polish up (a sword, armour, etc.); 2) Clean up, renovate, revive, give a new look to (something dirty, faded, or old). I think "give a new look to" is what some of these sellers have in mind; "renovate, revive" maybe not so much. But removing the rust from a hard disk might not be what buyers expect.
Funky electronics chain Fry’s is no more (Seattle Times)
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/funky-electronics-chain-frys-is-no-more/ So sad to see them go. There was a Fry's store close enough for me to visit occasionally. What will I do now when I actually want to examine the merchandise before I pay for it?
DEC mouse
Looking to complete a period-correct DEC workstation? Missing the right mouse? Have I got a deal for you! Digital 3-button mouse part number 30-5-01 rev. C02. PS/2 connector, ball mechanism (not one of those fancy new things with the red light on the bottom). Free for actual cost of shipping. This wasn't what I was looking for in storage either.
R65F11
Anyone remember the R65F11? It's a Forth microcontroller: 6502 processor with a Forth kernel in ROM, from the mid '80s. I was going through some old stuff in storage (looking for something else) and found an R65F11 with the development ROM and some documentation for building a development board. Looks like a fun little project... I have plenty of projects. If anyone is interested, it's free for actual cost of shipping (could probably go in a U.S. Priority Mail envelope or small box, not sure about overseas options). The backstory: in 1984 I was working for a startup company, and we were looking at various microprocessors for use in a new product. Being a fairly skilled journeyman Forth programmer, I was advocating for the R65F11. I managed to talk the Rockwell sales rep into giving us the development ROM (usually not easily available). We ended up going with a 68000 for the project, and I ended up with the R65F11.
Re: IBM vacuum tubes
On Wed, 2020-06-17 at 13:24 -0400, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: > 5965 is a computer rated 12AV7 with better balanced cutoff > characteristics, but generally worse for noise. Darn. "Worse for noise" probably means I won't find audio nirvana trying these in any of my amps. And there's a good chance they're worn out anyway (one of my theories is that these are tubes that were undergoing reliability testing or failure analysis).
Re: IBM vacuum tubes
On Wed, 2020-06-17 at 11:27 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: > They are indeed GEs! 188 is the clue. > Thanks! What is the secret decoder ring that tells you 188 means GE?
Re: IBM vacuum tubes
On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 11:04 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: > > Good question. They have an IBM logo and "Made in USA", along with the > > part number (5965 or 5963) and a bunch of numbers that might give a hint > > as to manufacturer. Any suggestions on how to decode them? > > What are the numbers? > > Details, man! Sure! I'd attach a picture, but On the top of the tubes are numbers printed in yellow. A couple typical ones are C392 and C152. On the side, the large IBM logo is flanked by groups of numbers, an example: 62-39 64-17 IBM 317261 188-5 MADE IN U.S.A. This is one of the more legible ones. The two pairs of numbers on the first line at the left appear to vary, the 188-5 and 317261 seem to be constant; but it's hard to be certain. The obvious part number 5965 has some other markings that are overprinted by the IBM logo and numbers. It looks like it could be: 5965 A U.S.A .. .. The pattern of dots is hard to make out because of "IBM" on top of it. The structure inside is a "long-plate" type, with three horizontal ribs. I haven't had a chance to compare the structure to any of the many old dual-triode, medium-mu tubes in my assortment. There might be some clues. It wouldn't surprise me if these were a fairly standard design with some changes to the cathode to withstand being held in cutoff for long periods of time.
Re: IBM vacuum tubes
On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 10:24 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: > > While going through my assortment of old vacuum tubes looking for audio > > treasures, I found a handful of IBM branded ones. Mostly 5965, but > > there's one 5963 mixed in. > > Who made them? Good question. They have an IBM logo and "Made in USA", along with the part number (5965 or 5963) and a bunch of numbers that might give a hint as to manufacturer. Any suggestions on how to decode them? These came to me from my father, who worked in the Vacuum Tubes department at GE for a while when I was growing up, so there's a good chance the OEM was GE.
IBM vacuum tubes
While going through my assortment of old vacuum tubes looking for audio treasures, I found a handful of IBM branded ones. Mostly 5965, but there's one 5963 mixed in. These are dual triodes with the same pinout as common small-signal audio tubes such as 12AX7/7025/ECC83, but characteristics closer to 12AT7 or 12AU7. My RCA Receiving Tube Manual says they're designed to withstand being held in cutoff for long periods of time, and mentions digital applications. Anyone know what kind of IBM machine these would have been used in?
FORTH [was: Re: DIBOL and RPG for RSTS]
On Fri, 2020-03-27 at 20:42 -0400, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > On 3/27/20 8:25 PM, Paul Koning wrote: > > > > If you want to try something entirely different, dig up the FORTH > runtime system that's part of the V10.1 "unsupported" kit. It's a > neat language. Still in use, in fact. > > > > I used that FIG FORTH package ages ago on real PDP-11's. > Was never impressed with Forth so much. Only time I was > impressed was when I worked with OpenPROM which was all > written in Forth. Wanted to do one for the PDP-11 but > lost interest when Sun gave it to IEEE and they wanted > several thousand dollars just to look at it. FORTH! Now that's classic. I had reached at least journeyman level with it in the 80s. It was great for hardware bringup, relatively easy to get it running and it gave you lots of power over the new hardware. FORTH plus an oscilloscope usually beat a logic analyzer - writing a 'scope loop in a few lines of FORTH was much faster than getting the logic analyzer set up. The real power of the language is not so much in writing programs, rather it's a way to create domain-specific languages. I did my FORTH apprenticeship under someone who had implemented a compiler for "relay equations" (a notation for describing connections of actual relays to build control systems). The old-timers (in the 80s) could still write their relay equations, but they were then compiled and the computer did programmatically what the relays would have done in hard-wired logic. Somewhere around here I still have a Rockwell R65F11, with the development ROM and documentation
Re: Is IBM RPG classic?
On Sun, 2019-12-15 at 20:16 -0800, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Dijkstra had clever nasty things to say about many programming languages. > I can't find his opinion about RPG. Unprintable, even on the interwebs? :-) Thanks for all the replies, both humorous and informative. I'll try to find out what version of RPG my friend has the misfortune to be working with, and what platform it's on.
Is IBM RPG classic?
Is it classic enough to ask about on this list? A friend of mine finds himself in the awkward position of being asked to take on some RPG programming, but knows nothing about it. Can anyone here suggest some good resources for a crash course in RPG? Yes, any web search engine will throw up a lot of hits, but I'm hoping someone here can help select the most useful ones.
Re: Converting C for KCC on TOPS20
On Wed, 2019-12-11 at 00:25 +, David Griffith via cctalk wrote: > I'm trying to convert some C code[1] so it'll compile on TOPS20 with KCC. > KCC is mostly ANSI compliant, but it needs to use the TOPS20 linker, which > has a limit of six case-insentive characters. [...] Does anyone here have > any knowledge of existing tools or techniques to do what I'm trying to do? Is "objcopy --redefine-syms" any help? Compile the code as-is to produce object files, use nm or objdump to find all of the global symbols, generate unique six-character names for them, and then use objcopy to create new object files with the new names. Or have I completely missed the point? I'm not familiar with KCC, does it produce object modules in a format objcopy doesn't support? I know someone who was working on gcc support for the PDP-10, I wonder if he's still doing that or has given up
Re: Searching cctalk/cctech
On Mon, 2019-09-02 at 09:27 -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > Is there a way to search all of cctalk and cctech? I found the archives, > but that is split all of the postings in a given month. > > alan One way is with Google: just include "site:classiccmp.org" in your search terms.
Re: DEC RSX-11D and its COBOL compiler?
On Tue, 2018-05-29 at 17:30 +1000, Nigel Williams via cctalk wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 1:27 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk
> wrote:
> > I have 11D on bitsavers.
>
> this is actually RSX-11D? http://bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp11/magtapes/ias/
As I recall, IAS ("Interactive Applications System") was a timesharing
environment layered on top of RSX-11D.
When I was working with RSX-11D many years ago, I heard the opinion
expressed (maybe by DEC field service?) that RSX-11D was a pig, and IAS
was an elephant on a pig's back.
Linux Journal - the early years
Is Linux "classic" enough? If you think not, please ignore this email I started with Linux kernel version 0.12 (not a typo), which I believe was the first version that was self-hosting. I subscribed to Linux Journal from its beginning. Is there any collector value or interest in old issues of Linux Journal? I have a continuous run for "several" years, beginning with the very first issue. Anyone interested? As many as you want could be yours for the cost of shipping (USPS Media Mail).
Amiga documentation - free for shipping
I have some Amiga documentation gifted to me a long time ago by an Amiga enthusiast. Now that I'm moving and downsizing, it has to go. Free for shipping, USPS media mail. AmigaDOS User's Manual - paperback book --- "This manual describes the various AmigaDOS, [sic] and its commands." Errata to the AmigaDOS User's Manual - photocopy Amiga Hardware Manual - photocopy - "... provides information about the Amiga graphics and audio hardware ... tutorial on writing assembly language programes to directly control the Amiga's graphics and hardware." INTERFACING TO THE 68K BUS CONNECTOR ON THE AMIGA Designing Hardware for the Amiga Expansion Architecture Drawings of the Expansion Boards for the Amiga -- A packet of photocopy documents and schematics.
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On Mon, 2018-03-26 at 11:18 -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > I'm surprised that your sysadmin is allowing this to happen. Many large > outfits have a policy of sending any hard disk, regardless of content to > the industrial shredders. The advantages of working for a small company... the sysadmin is a long-time employee who's just moved into that role, he and I are good buddies. And there's not anything worth $$$ data recovery on them anyway. I hate seeing perfectly good working equipment reduced to low-value scrap, so I'm wiping these drives at home on my own time to prevent that.
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
I've had more replies to this offer than I expected! I'll make a general reply here, and contact everyone who responded off-list. I think the simplest and most cost-effective way to ship these is a USPS Priority Mail flat rate box. I have to wipe the drives before I ship them -- my word of honor to the sysadmin. I have probably a couple dozen done now that I can ship right away. The rest will trickle out a little bit slower after that. When I said "big carton" I meant it. There are plenty for everyone.
PATA hard disks, anyone?
The new sysadmin at work is clearing out closets full of junk^H^H^H^H cool old stuff accumulated by the previous sysadmin. There's a big carton full of PATA hard disks. Most of them are in the 4.3 GB - 20 GB range, a few larger, a few smaller. Anyone have any use for these? You can have them for the cost of shipping, or free for local pickup in Bothell, WA. They're going to be recycled as scrap if I don't find a home for them.
Re: VCF PNW 2018 - less than three weeks away!
On Sun, 2018-01-21 at 17:33 -0800, Michael Brutman via cctalk wrote: > Come join us in Seattle on February 10th and 11th for the first VCF PNW. > We have 20 exhibits, six speakers, and a panel discussion planned. There > will be a consignment area for buying and selling vintage gear I'm clearing out a lot of miscellaneous computers and parts. DEC Alpha Multia, Alpha Personal Workstation, Alpha XL300... a variety of SCSI hard disks (including some DEC RZ??, 450 MB or so) and SCSI CD-ROM drives... DAT tapes and drives... a few Sun parts... peecee stuff, including some ISA bus cards (now THAT'S vintage :-)), lots of cables... you get the picture. I don't have the time to go to VCF and try to sell any of this on consignment, but if anyone is interested in collecting this stuff and trying to sell it (or use it), I'm in the Seattle area (Bothell, specifically) and would be glad to give it to you. I'm really hoping not to simply scrap it all. Contact me off-list if you're interested.
FFS: TZ30 and TK50 cartridges
Cleaning house! I have a TZ30 and about a dozen TK50 cartridges I'll never use. The TZ30 worked the last time I hooked it up over a decade ago. Given the horror stories I've been reading about old tapes, I'm not going to try it again, I'll leave it to the experts. Bonus: I have a variety of ISA and PCI SCSI host adapters and cables, I'll throw one in if you want it. Free for actual cost of shipping, or meet up in the Seattle/Eastside area.
VRCX1-WA - no high voltage
Cleaning house! I have a Digital VRCX1-WA 21" CRT monitor that seems to have lost its high voltage to the CRT. Other than that it is in good condition: case is cosmetically clean, CRT isn't burned. Is anyone interested in this, either to repair or to use the CRT as a replacement? Free for local pickup, probably not worth shipping. I'm willing to drive a reasonable distance in the Seattle/Eastside area to meet up.
