Re: BASIC environment ending with "run complete", and slashed 'O' characters?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for that! I'd mentioned this over on Facebook, where I'd also been 
able to post a photo of the transcript, and someone there pointed out that 
the BASIC listing uses single quotes around strings (what I'd expect to be 
ASCII 27h) rather than the double quotes that BASIC typically uses 
(expected ASCII 22h).


Is that at all "meaningful" in any way? Did CDC BASIC use (or at least 
allow) single quotes instead of double? Or was the teletype maybe 
configured to print a single quote when encountering ASCII 22h, normally a 
double? Obviously I don't know why anyone would actually want that behavior.


The only other thing I can think of is that the listing I have is a "fake" 
- i.e. not a true dump of a program run at all, but something that someone 
typed by hand, and they used the wrong quotes. That's a surprising error if 
so, but if this was educational material I suppose it's possible that it 
was simply a text file containing the listing followed by the supposed 
output, subsequently dumped to a teletype.


Jules


On 4/26/22 09:24, Paul Koning wrote:

Apparently so.  The word from a CDC experts list is that the "run complete" 
message is not from BASIC itself (which is indeed a CDC product) but rather from the time 
sharing executive, called TELEX in KRONOS and early NOS, and IAF in later versions of NOS.

As for the slashed letter O, that's strange.  Certainly it is not CDC practice; 
the only place I ever ran into this is with IBM, I always considered it an 
example of IBM doing things the weird way.  So it sounds like whoever bought 
those Teletype machines had them configured in that non-standard way for some 
reason.  Normal, as far as I know, was slashed digit zero.

MECC is a U. Minnesota KRONOS/NOS system with a bunch of local mods, but BASIC 
and TELEX are both part of the base system as supplied by CDC.

paul


On Apr 26, 2022, at 3:05 AM, Raymond Wiker via cctalk  
wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDC_Kronos 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDC_Kronos>, perhaps?


On 26 Apr 2022, at 03:08, Jules Richardson via cctalk  
wrote:


Perhaps a long shot, but I've got an old piece of paper here showing a BASIC listing 
followed by a program run where the BASIC environment terminates with "run 
complete" - does that behavior ring any bells with anyone? I'm mildly curious what 
machine it may have come from.

The other interesting thing is that the output is from a teletype and the zero 
characters appear with no slash, while the uppercase 'O' characters do have a 
diagonal slash through them (e.g. the 'run complete' mentioned above comes out 
as 'RUN C0MPLETE') - certainly not unheard of, but I think doing the opposite 
had become typical practice by what, very early 1970s?

At the top of the page there is a paragraph as follows (all in uppercase on the 
printout, obviously, and with slashed 'O' characters):

"The following output is an example of BASIC language and the resulting run of a 
program. A punched paper tape of the program is included in the kit. This output was 
produced on a teletype."

I don't know if that means anything to anyone? I have no idea what "the kit" 
was but am guessing that the printout I have was once part of some kind of educational 
material.

I do have another printout from the MECC timeshare system (dated 78/9/1) which 
may have originated with the same teletype - it's different paper stock, but 
has the same slashed 'O' characters. The welcome message on that says 'Kronos 
2.12-439', if that's meaningful...

cheers

Jules

Re: BASIC environment ending with "run complete", and slashed 'O' characters?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 4/26/22 02:05, Raymond Wiker wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDC_Kronos 
, perhaps?


Could well be, given the MECC / Minnesota / Cray connections. Question then 
is whether the CDC 6000 series (or later) machines had a BASIC environment 
that terminated runs with the 'run complete' message.


(oddly I never saw my post make it to the list, so assumed it was down or 
the message had got caught somewhere. Evidently it did make it though and 
for some reason my 'list copy' of it never made it back to me)


Jules

BASIC environment ending with "run complete", and slashed 'O' characters?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Perhaps a long shot, but I've got an old piece of paper here showing a 
BASIC listing followed by a program run where the BASIC environment 
terminates with "run complete" - does that behavior ring any bells with 
anyone? I'm mildly curious what machine it may have come from.


The other interesting thing is that the output is from a teletype and the 
zero characters appear with no slash, while the uppercase 'O' characters do 
have a diagonal slash through them (e.g. the 'run complete' mentioned above 
comes out as 'RUN C0MPLETE') - certainly not unheard of, but I think doing 
the opposite had become typical practice by what, very early 1970s?


At the top of the page there is a paragraph as follows (all in uppercase on 
the printout, obviously, and with slashed 'O' characters):


"The following output is an example of BASIC language and the resulting run 
of a program. A punched paper tape of the program is included in the kit. 
This output was produced on a teletype."


I don't know if that means anything to anyone? I have no idea what "the 
kit" was but am guessing that the printout I have was once part of some 
kind of educational material.


I do have another printout from the MECC timeshare system (dated 78/9/1) 
which may have originated with the same teletype - it's different paper 
stock, but has the same slashed 'O' characters. The welcome message on that 
says 'Kronos 2.12-439', if that's meaningful...


cheers

Jules

Data recovery (was: Re: SETI@home (ca. 2000) servers heading to salvage)

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 4/3/22 10:51, Eric J. Korpela via cctalk wrote:

drive removed and destroyed for privacy reason.


For those in the know, how much success - assuming a "money is no object" 
approach - do data recovery companies have in retrieving data from drives 
that have a) been overwritten with zeros using dd or similar, and b) been 
overwritten with random data via a more comprehensive tool?


cheers,

Jules

Re: SGI Indigo keyboard / mouse / converter wanted

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 2/20/22 10:36, Andrew Diller wrote:

Indigo1 is not PS/2, even though the connector looks that way.


Correct. I was just pointing out that I think I recall someone years ago 
implementing a converter between the Indigo's proprietary protocols and 
"modern" (at the time) PS/2 keyboards/mice - and that one of those would 
likely also be suit my friend's needs in absence of an even-more-modern USB 
version.


You need to 
have the "onxy" keyboard/mouse or get an adapter from Drakware.


The Drakware is the one that my friend mentioned to me, and they're out of 
stock at the moment, hence them seeking an alternative (and/or real 
devices) :-(


Jules

SGI Indigo keyboard / mouse / converter wanted

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hi all,

A friend of mine has just acquired an Indigo (R4k with XZ graphics option), 
but of course it's the usual story and the keyboard/rodent had been lost. 
In absence of the genuine items they'd still be happy with a USB converter 
(at least for the time being), but it seems those are difficult to come by 
at present, too.


Does anyone happen to have a surplus converter suitable for these machines, 
and/or keyboard/rodent? (according to sgistuff keyboard is p/n 9500801 and 
mouse p/n 9150800)


[side note: they mentioned a USB converter, but I'm pretty sure years ago 
someone had implemented an adapter to PC-friendly PS/2 parts, too. I'm sure 
something like would do the trick, too]


thanks,

Jules

Re: tamayatech let down

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 12/20/21 8:32 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote:

I think I should pass on my experience as a warning to others.

I googled around for a particular PDP-11 board I needed and tamayatech.com
was a hit, with "buy now" option and condition: refurbished. 


Side question, if I may, but what does "refurbished" mean within the 
context of sellers like this? Board [fully] tested and working? Or simply 
"visually good"? Or have components such as electrolytic capacitors that 
might be marginal from old age been tested and replaced with new components 
where necessary?


thanks,

Jules

Re: Computhink Eagle 32 - software, docs, info?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 10/17/21 2:18 PM, Joshua Rice wrote:

I saw that exact thread, and was as intrigued as you. Looks like it
didn’t have any graphics capability, but instead had a text-based
terminal built in. Quite unusual to see such a basic machine with such a
capable CPU.


The Infoworld article claimed 80x25 text, but also 240x512 graphics, 
suggesting that it was pixel addressable.


The overview on the 1000bit site also says Unix ability (which would be 
really interesting given that the machine is contemporary with first 
offerings from companies such as Sun and Masscomp), but I'm not sure how 
much trust to place in that claim.


cheers

Jules

Computhink Eagle 32 - software, docs, info?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hey all,

Someone in one of the Facebook vintage groups that I'm in just picked up a 
Computhink Eagle 32, an early-ish (appears to be circa 1981/82) 68000-based 
machine with integral display and keyboard.


On the rear it has a 50-pin connection for floppy and a 34-pin connection 
for a hard disk, but they have no external peripherals for it, and also no 
software and documentation. It's quite possible that the floppy connection 
is simply Shugart; hard disk *maybe* SASI I suppose, skimping on the number 
of ground lines (in which case it likely ran an external bridge to ST412/506).


Online searching shows up very little about this system; does anyone here 
happen to have one or know anything about them? This one seems to have a 
pair of 256KB memory boards fitted, but also (perhaps worryingly) an empty 
"video" slot - although CRT connections apparently route to the main system 
board, so there's a chance that there was just a video expansion option not 
fitted to this particular machine. Still, even if that's not an issue, 
without knowledge of drives and software it might forever remain in boat 
anchor territory...


cheers,

Jules

Re: An American perspective on the late great Sir Clive Sinclair, from Fast Company

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/26/21 9:05 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

I found this interesting for perspective. The British media (and
AFAICS of Australia, New Zealand and several bits of Europe) have been
saturated with coverage of a much-loved, widely-celebrated and revered
hero of tech.

As FC points out, even the American _tech_ media barely noticed.


From the other side of that, growing up in the UK, nobody I knew talked 
about Apple or Atari, and Commodore was only on the radar because of the 
C64's capability as a games machine (and later the Amiga) - I don't think I 
even saw a PET prior to 2005, although I know there were a few infestations 
of them here and there :-)


In other words, I'm not entirely surprised.

Thoughts on what might have happened had the BBC's Computer Literacy 
Project never come about? Sometimes I wonder about that. Acorn might have 
remained more focused on business hardware, and the Spectrum would have 
appeared but perhaps not taken off in the way that it did. Would other 
competing domestic machines have become more widespread? Or would the 
country have seen the likes of Apple get a foothold earlier than they did?


Jules

Re: Micropolis 1525 stuck heads

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/20/21 1:13 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Running it through the MFM tool got all but 200 or so sectors on the first 
pass, most errors were on head 3 but tapered off after cyl 500. Seems like 
a normal copy of Accent, no special information so it might not be worth 
taking the world apart to get it working.


What's this "MFM tool" of which you speak? Something specific to the PERQ 
world? I've got various ST506/412-type drives formatted against various 
controllers in various systems that might benefit from a snapshot.


cheers

Jules

Re: R.I.P. Clive Sinclair

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/18/21 11:15 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

Clive Sinclair died at 81 after a long illness (probably not Covid)


'course now he is touted as being "the inventor of the pocket calculator"
(as with all "FIRST"s, it leaves out a few predecessors,such as Busicom 
(1971, whose contract with Intel led to the 4004), Kilby's 1967 "Cal Tech" 
at TI, etc.)

I'm not sure, but the HP35 might even have preceded the Sinclair calculator.
As with all "FIRST"s, an entry can be saved by redefining the field. 
Sinclair's was probably the first one costing 5 pounds or less.


Pockets in the US were bigger than in the UK ;-)

I do remember the Sinclair products using hearing aid batteries and so 
being very slimline and compact in comparison to other hand-helds of the 
era, but I don't know about any claim to "first".


Jules

unknown rack PSU ("PPI 1247-000-91 ADDS")

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

I found a vintage rackable linear PSU at a sale over the weekend, appears 
to be late '70s vintage going by date codes on some of the high-power 
components inside.


Front panel is plain black with just a power switch and telltale lamp.

Back has a ratings sticker which says "PPI 1247-000-91 ADDS".

Outputs are +24V@3A, +12V@2A, +5V@30A, -12V@4A.

Ring a bell with anyone? I'm familiar with ADDS in a terminal context, of 
course, but this lump is obviously for something larger - perhaps a 
"washing machine size" fixed/removable drive unit or similar, but I'm 
surprised there's not obvious branding on it if so.


cheers

Jules

Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/21/21 11:27 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 7/21/21 8:19 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:


IIRC the original capacity ceiling on IDE was 504MB or something, so I
think the capacity of a CD (~650MB) would make a strictly IDE CD drive
impossible...?

I can't think of anything other than the Bigfoot, no. I didn't know
Compaq favoured them, though...


CDC/Imprimis certainly had ATA half-height 5.25 drives in their Wren II
line--I used them.  e.g. 94204 series.


With odd timing, a photo of a 5.25" "half height" IDE drive made by 
Gigastorage just popped up in one of my Facebook vintage groups. Adaptec 
appear to have made the main logic ICs on the interface board. It appears 
difficult to find any information on the company, other than a WSJ article 
hidden behind a paywall which seems to suggest that shenaningans were afoot.


Jules

Re: What's left of the Houston Museum stuff

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/23/21 2:01 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

On 7/23/21 10:38 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:


Sadly it's getting on for 1,500 miles away from me.


just let this stuff be ecycled already


I could actually use a few more CRTs. Well, not "use personally" - I've got 
enough to just grab a suitable one when I want to fire a system up - but I 
do keep thinking that if I ever thin out some of my duplicate machines, it 
would be nice to offer the future owner the option of a display to go with it.



like a friend said, we are all just delay lines for the dump


Ha! That, I like.

Re: What's left of the Houston Museum stuff

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/21/21 7:09 PM, Teo Zenios via cctalk wrote:

Nice selection of dirty and yellowed  computers in unknown condition.


Dirt can be removed, things can typically be repaired if needed, and not 
all of us expect our systems to be the exact shade of whatever that they 
were when they were built decades ago. :-)


Sadly it's getting on for 1,500 miles away from me.

Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/21/21 12:51 PM, r.stricklin via cctech wrote:




Regarding your "IDE HDDs were extremely rare" comment, did *anyone*
other than Quantum release an IDE drive in that 5.25" form factor? I
can't think of any, everything else was 3.5", although some early
vendor's drives were the same height as a "half height" 5.25" drive.



CDC 94208-51, 62, -75. The -51 is Compaq drive type 17.


Interesting! Were they built as IDE drives from the ground up, or were they
ST506/412 types with an additional board grafted on doing the interface
conversion?

Re: core matt repair

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/21/21 9:32 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:

Hi Jos,

Resoldered how?

The wires are _very_ thin (I guess 0.1 mm or thinner - think of human hair)


It's not at all scientific, but I took a photo via a loupe of one of my 
core boards with a cat hair over the top a couple of years ago, and the 
wires are about half the width of the cat hair; I think that likely puts 
them in the region of 0.02mm or thereabouts, with the diameter of the cores 
being about ten times that.

Re: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from the late 1990s

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/21/21 4:20 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

and a whole bunch(!) of 10- and 20-GByte IDE/PATA 5.25-inch desktop hard drives


I consider this bit unlikely TBH. 5.25" *IDE* HDDs were _extremely_
rare. The 5.25" format was dead before IDE came along, and 99% were
3.5", except the Quantum Bigfoot range. Those were slow, unreliable,
but cheap. I have one, as a sentimental reminder of full-width hard
disk drives from the beginning of my career.


Compaq were big fans of the Bigfoot drives, if I remember right - I expect 
that's what they are. I'd put them in that "rare but not valuable" category 
though, possibly of minor interest to a few collectors or museums just for 
the quirky aspect.


Regarding your "IDE HDDs were extremely rare" comment, did *anyone* other 
than Quantum release an IDE drive in that 5.25" form factor? I can't think 
of any, everything else was 3.5", although some early vendor's drives were 
the same height as a "half height" 5.25" drive.

Re: core matt repair

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/20/21 12:13 PM, pspan via cctech wrote:
I worked at a company called DMA located in Amery Wisconsin during the 80's 
and 90's that did do core mat repair. Yes, the gal that did the work used a 
scope. She replaced cores and wires. Good luck finding someone to do that 
work now. If I remember the process, first the mat was removed from the 
driver assembly, then the varnish was removed. Then the mat was repaired 
and revarnished and then reassembled and final test before returned to the 
customer.


Oh, well there you go... perhaps the board that I have was repaired by the 
gal that you're talking about :-)


Unfortunately there are no initials on my board (as was often the case for 
board repairs), only a date and job number.


Jules

Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/19/21 7:53 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
Well sadly it's looking like game over. By the sounds of it there's a 
basement full of old equipment and boards, and a scrapper out in OH has 
offered $6k for the lot, sight unseen, just on the hope that they can make 
a buck on the gold and palladium content.


ad... right after I hit send on that, things start looking up again. 
The guy responsible for this stuff doesn't seem to want it to get scrapped 
any more than I do, and he got in touch with folks down at Cape Canaveral 
(there are various ex-NASA things in the pile), then talked to the family 
of the estate; it sounds like some of it at least might get donated to the 
collection down there.


I'm not sure about non-NASA things at this point, we'll see - but it sounds 
like there's interest now in not junking it, at least!


Jules

Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/19/21 6:20 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

On 7/19/21 4:03 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:


Just out of interest, is the software for the Tektronix 8002 
microprocessor lab archived out there anywhere?




It would be nice to save a complete system though, since most have been 
tossed out since there is little
practical use for them now. 


Well sadly it's looking like game over. By the sounds of it there's a 
basement full of old equipment and boards, and a scrapper out in OH has 
offered $6k for the lot, sight unseen, just on the hope that they can make 
a buck on the gold and palladium content.


The next offer seems to be from someone who's planning on just dumping it 
on ebay - so if the scrapper deal falls through maybe it'll resurface on 
That Auction Site for lolprice...


This is starting to feel like one of those situations where it's a huge 
shame that the original owner of this stuff didn't have a will expressing 
what should be done with it all.

Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Just out of interest, is the software for the Tektronix 8002 microprocessor 
lab archived out there anywhere?


What I believe is one popped up on one of my Facebook groups, and it'd be a 
trek to get it even if I can arrange a good price with the current owner - 
but it sounds like the software at the site, if it still exists, is 
unlikely to surface from a huge pile of detritus, so that automatically 
puts things right in boat anchor territory.


There may or may not be a terminal, too; I get the impression those were 
optional (I've been told that there are two Tek terminals, I just don't 
know if they're the right models for this system).



cheers

Jules

Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/19/21 3:40 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
I believe much of the core manufacturing for DEC minicomputers was 
outsourced, but a lot of it had become much more automated by the late 60's 
and early 70's.


I've got a trio of planes here, two of which are from a Lockheed MAC-16, 
but the other one is made by Keronix out of Santa Monica for an unknown 
machine (dated 1973, model number "P4" and p/n 816335 if that means 
anything to anyone, approx 16"x16" with two 100-pin, double-sided finger 
edge connectors on 0.1" spacing).


Anyhoo, the Keronix one has a sticker on it saying it was repaired by DMA, 
inc. in Amery, WI in 1980 - which might suggest that there were third 
parties around working on boards, rather than them having to go back to the 
manufacturer for repair. (I have no idea what the nature of the repair was, 
of course; maybe it was to surrounding logic rather than the mat itself).


It's worth noting that most computer manufacturers appreciated the 
fragility of core memory planes at the time, with most of them being 
protected with either PCB's or perspex/plastic shields on top of the core 
planes.


Yes, that's how all the ones I've ever seen have been. The Keronix one has 
an additional shield over the top of the entire PCB, on top of the one 
protecting the cores.


Jules

Re: FTGH for pickup in So Cal: PDP-11/44, Macs, Atari ST, RiscPC, ...

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/6/21 6:14 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:

re. Acorn RPC 700 for anyone reading, I may still have a logic board or two
for these over in England. No real ETA for getting them US-side, though
(and chances are that they have battery issues, too).


It's still on the market if people want to give it a shot.


Well if anyone happens to be heading from your part of the country to 
Minnesota in the near future and has a RPC 700-sized space in their 
trunk... would be happy to discuss transport fees :-)


They are notorious for battery destruction - perhaps not as bad as an Amiga 
4000, but I expect that's the most likely problem with it. I've actually 
got an original paper copy of the techref over in the UK, although I think 
that's all scanned in and online these days.

Re: FTGH for pickup in So Cal: PDP-11/44, Macs, Atari ST, RiscPC, ...

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/5/21 9:30 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:

There is also a big Kennedy disk next to it but I don't know if they
originally went together.


Just to satisfy my curiosity, is that SMD or something else? I've got at 
least one Q-bus SMD controller so have been keeping an eye out for drive 
for a few years. I am in Minnesota, however, so logistics surely a no-go; 
if it was close enough for me I'd be jumping on the 11/44 and also the 
Alpha Micro!


re. Acorn RPC 700 for anyone reading, I may still have a logic board or two 
for these over in England. No real ETA for getting them US-side, though 
(and chances are that they have battery issues, too).


Jules

Re: Interesting photos of a computer graphics lab from 1968

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 6/24/21 12:37 PM, Mike Begley via cctalk wrote:

Other recognizable hardware are a couple of ASR33 teletypes (one of
which was rebadged as Adage), and some tape drives, the manufacture I
don't recognize.  Everything else, I pretty much can't make out what any
of it is, but perhaps someone recognizes the particular layout of the
blinkinlights?


The panels at the tops of the racks all seem to say Adage. Perhaps the 
blinkenlights panel is theirs, too?

Epson QX-10 Q10CMS board

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hi all,

There was a post in one of the Facebook vintage groups from someone who has 
Epson QX-10 Q10CMS and Q10GMS boards. The GMS is what I have in my own 
QX-10, but does anyone know what the CMS board is?


Both boards have a NEC 7220 graphics controller, but the CMS appears to 
have more on-board memory (384KB vs. 256KB). On the other hand, I'm not 
seeing any on-board ROM in the photo of the CMS, unlike on my GMS.


cheers,

Jules

Re: DEC Computer Lab for sale

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 5/30/21 10:42 AM, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk wrote:
The mini-banana works OK, and I don't know of anything better that is still 
available.  A hundred of them (50 patch cables) won't be cheap.


https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/computerlab/computerlab.php
The photos get a little bigger if you click them.  Those bits of stamped 
brass or whatever they are made of were probably pennies each.


That's interesting, I just dug out my 1962 DEC modules handbook (which 
appears to pre-date the H-500 by a few years) and they were using banana 
plugs for connections between their modules at that point in time. I wonder 
why they changed - purely cost reasons?

Re: How to read Osborne 1 Floppies?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 5/24/21 1:26 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

There were two Osborne floppy formats.  Both CP/M.

IIRC, the original format was "Single Density" (FM), 10 sectors per track, 
with 256 bytes per sector (similar to the TRS80-Model-1.  That will require 
FM/SD capability.  Most NEC FDCs did not support that.  Dave Dunfield has a 
test program that will tell you whether your FDC can handle it.


Then, they switched to "Double Density" (MFM) IIRC: 5 sectors per track, 
with 1024 bytes per sector.  Any PC FDC with access to INT13h and INT1Eh 
will work with appropriate software.


I think there were some bootable Osborne floppies which still retained a 
single density boot track even when the rest of the media was formatted as 
double density. Regular data disks are probably consistent throughout, but 
it's just something else to consider depending on the nature of the media 
that's being accessed.


Thankfully there seem to be far more PC controllers out there that will at 
least read FM data than there are ones that can also write it.


Jules

Re: Link Rot

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 5/22/21 10:28 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

A more disturbing popular trend is information being placed in long-ish
Youtube videos that could have been summarized concisely in a page of text.


Kids. It seems to be the modern way - current generations don't want to 
spend a couple of minutes reading text when they can sit though 30 minutes 
of visual content instead. It's like brains have lost the ability to focus 
on something unless it's noisy and moving.

Re: Motor generator

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 5/5/21 6:09 AM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, May 04, 2021 at 10:07:28PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote:

"Power for the basic computer consists of one 250 kva, 400 Hz motor
generator set.  The motor-generator set has the capability of providing
power for the CPU, MCS, I/O and the MCU. The optional memory requires
the addition of an 80 kva motor-generator set."


I'm looking at this RISC-V board sitting here on my desk (with its
"massive" 2-inch-long heat sink) and shaking my head at how far we have
come.


I seem to recall an anecdote about Acorn hooking up the first prototype 
ARM-1 processor and it working, despite showing no current draw on the 
connected ammeter - it then transpired that the power supply was still 
switched off,  but it was so efficient that it was able to run via leakage 
current on the connected I/O lines.


Jules

Re: Apollo Date Bug

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 4/7/21 1:16 AM, Kurt Nowak via cctalk wrote:

Hi All,

Back after a long time away from this list... I happen to have a small herd
of Apollo DN3500/4500 boxen which i pulled out the other day to see if they
still run. 


I can't help with the date issue, but just wanted to say how nice it is to 
hear that someone out there has rescued some Apollo stuff - there was 
someone in one of the other vintage groups I'm in a couple of years back 
who'd found one of their early machines (dn400 I believe), but that's the 
only time I think I've seen mention of them in a very long time.


I had access to a lab of 9000/425 machines in the mid 90s and that's what 
got me hooked, then when I was at TNMoC prior to my moving over to the US 
we had some 2500/3000/4000 systems that I looked at, but sadly those had 
spent some time in damp conditions and weren't ever likely to work again - 
the corrosion was just too bad.


Jules

Re: Mystery (unusual) 1973 terminal

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 2/12/21 1:08 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

Between google and the browser I'm using, the photos didn't display
properly, so I downloaded them (upper right corner), which unzipped to
high-res versions.


I had issues myself, zoom would work, but there seemed to be no obvious 
method for "just show me the thing at native resolution without a bunch of 
UI nonsense around it".



The board with the white ECOs is the memory, it has 5 1402's (256*4
shift register), 3 of them from Intel and 2 replacements from MIL
(Microsystems International Limited) which is the only place Canada
appears to come into it.


Yes, I believe the owner lives in Canada, but it's entirely possible that 
it was built in the US (or anywhere).



I don't think the CRT is half-hidden, rather just a high-aspect-ratio
CRT (very wide rel to height).


If I remember right, the CRT sits partially recessed in the case behind the 
front bezel, with the keyboard obscuring it. But maybe I don't remember 
right :-) As mentioned to Paul, I'll see if I can get the owner to share 
some more photos of the complete unit.



In terms of design & construction it looks pretty typical for its
period; nonetheless a cool unit to be working on.


Logic-wise for sure, although the physical construction is a little odd. 
Personally I like seeing terminals like this though because it seems that 
so few have survived - people will preserve the DEC / HP / Tektronix 
hardware and much of everything else from that very late '60s to mid-70's 
period is long gone.


cheers

Jules

Re: Mystery (unusual) 1973 terminal

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 2/12/21 8:08 AM, Paul Koning wrote:

The photos are not particularly helpful; they show parts of the device
but not close enough to tell the details, while much of the case is not
shown.  Is there any manufacturer label or serial number tag on the
case?


I'll see if I can get him to share more photos - I know he'd posted some of 
the complete system a few months ago when he picked it up, so maybe he can 
add them to the Google folder.


Unfortunately it seems that the Conrac on the tube is the only kind of 
branding on the whole thing. I wonder if it had a decal / emblem on the 
keyboard originally and that's fallen off.



One of those boards is full of rather sloppy ECO wires, which makes it
feel like a home made job, but the rest look like decent quality
commercial pieces.


Yes, the general board quality (and other things, etc. the cage around the 
cards) just seems too nice for something that might have been a homebrew or 
prototype - it feels to me more like a commercial product, but one in its 
very early days before they'd got all the kinks worked out.



 And yes, the blower is rather curious, it's hard to
see how a device like this might dissipate enough power to need that
kind of air mover.


That aspect of it seems like a case of "just use what we have" to me, i.e. 
they wanted to duct warm air out the back without much clearance, and just 
happened to have a source of those blower assemblies. It's a bit odd that 
they're dumping air from around the PSU but there's no airflow through the 
card cage at all.


Jules

Re: Mystery (unusual) 1973 terminal

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 2/12/21 10:05 AM, William Sudbrink wrote:

Sort of reminds me of a DataPoint 2200.  Clone maybe?


I see what you're saying, but I don't think there's much in the way of 
brains to this thing, though (unlike the 2200, which I believe was an 
"actual computer") - it's just a terminal. From what I've seen of 
Datapoint/CTC's other offerings it looks like the 2200 system was the only 
one with a short vertical display - their plain terminals all appear to 
have a more conventional aspect ratio.

Mystery (unusual) 1973 terminal

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hi all,

Hopefully the following link works, but someone over on one of the Facebook 
vintage groups has this oddball terminal from 1973 that they've been 
looking for any information on:


https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2Qkj

... it's somewhat unconventional in that half the CRT is hidden from view 
within the machine, i.e. it only actually displays the top half of the 
display to the user - I've no idea if that's because it had a specific 
application where space was limited, or if it was simply that memory at the 
time was horribly expensive and so it was designed to only use a few lines 
(I know some vendors did that, although I think they typically presented 
the whole CRT and at least had the option of RAM upgrade to more lines).


The blower assembly seems a little on the homebrew side, but on the other 
hand the PCBs and case construction make it seem like a professional product.


The owner says the only label anywhere on the thing is the one on the CRT 
saying "Mfd in Japan for Conrac", but that's presumably just the CRT itself 
and not the entire machine.


I don't believe there's anything resembling a microprocessor in the system, 
it's all just TTL logic (the large white ceramic IC is an ACIA).


Oh, I believe the owner's in Canada, so it may be it was made there and 
never exported to other parts of the world.


cheers

Jules

Re: Epson QX-10 hard drive

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 1/31/21 12:35 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:

Greetings

I recently purchased a QCS external hard disk on ebay. This was one of the
companies that was selling DEC Rainbow hard drives. I had hoped it was an
old Rainbow drive with interesting to me bits... Turns out it is an Epson
QX-10 hard drive, full of interesting to bits for the QX-10 CP/M
enthusiast. I've had trouble finding a suitable community to note this in
should there be people around that care... so I thought I'd ask here is
people know of good CP/M groups and/or QX-10/16 groups, mailing lists, irc
channels, discord servers, etc I could find.


I'm not aware of anything, unfortunately. I've got a QX-10 that was 
originally one of Epson's sales demo machines, and got taken around to 
prospective customers by one of their sales reps - which does mean that it 
was well looked after and came with a *lot* of documentation (and media, 
but nothing "exciting" beyond the usual OS, Valdocs etc.).


Did you happen to take an image of the drive contents?

(hanging a hard disk off mine would be fun, but I think they were SASI to 
the external enclosure, and there was a SASI interface which plugged into 
the expansion slots - I'm not sure if the latter is documented anywhere)


cheers

Jules

Re: tty and video displays

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 12/14/20 10:06 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

On 2020-Dec-14, at 7:57 AM, Jules Richardson wrote:

On 12/14/20 4:41 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:


Yes. Coincidentally I've just been refurbishing one - a Teleray
3931. It's an ASCII/APL terminal, overstriking was included for the
APL mode. http://madrona.ca/e/teleray3931/index.html


Holy cow, I have that keyboard.

...

(It's definitely -12V, not -5V? I'm just thinking that the -12V noted
on your schematic is quite close the the 15V rating on the cap -
although that could explain why my later setup got caps rated to 35V,
too)


I don't remember whether I traced it or measured it, but I'm fairy
confident, Vgg = -12 is pretty common for GI MOS ICs. I'll try to
remember to double-check it when I have the unit opened again.


Hey,

Just a heads-up, I finally got around to hooking it up - and it works just 
fine on -5V. I'm not inclined to try -12V just in case it cooks, but I 
suppose it's possible that it just needs some -ve voltage "more than x" and 
so -12V is perfectly acceptable, too. Or maybe I just got lucky and this IC 
is happy on -5V where some might not be.


I'm pretty happy that it's alive, anyway. I need to figure out what's going 
on with the spacebar (it currently doesn't sit level), but time to figure 
out some frankenproject for it!


cheers

Jules

Re: tty and video displays

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 12/14/20 10:06 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

(It's definitely -12V, not -5V? I'm just thinking that the -12V noted
on your schematic is quite close the the 15V rating on the cap -
although that could explain why my later setup got caps rated to 35V,
too)


I don't remember whether I traced it or measured it, but I'm fairy
confident, Vgg = -12 is pretty common for GI MOS ICs. I'll try to
remember to double-check it when I have the unit opened again.


Thanks! I guess I can try it first on -5V too and see if the encoder 
outputs do anything, and if not give -12V a go. If it works, I like the 
charge pump idea - I'd probably ultimately give it its own case and use it 
externally, so saving a wire is handy.


cheers

Jules

Re: tty and video displays

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 12/14/20 4:41 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

On 2020-Dec-14, at 1:26 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:

Often for data input one could use over strike characters for input. Not EQ 
might be = BS | Did any video display terminals
repeat the same effect?


Yes. Coincidentally I've just been refurbishing one - a Teleray 3931.
It's an ASCII/APL terminal, overstriking was included for the APL mode.

http://madrona.ca/e/teleray3931/index.html


Holy cow, I have that keyboard. I picked it up as surplus a few years ago 
from a place in Minneapolis and figured there was a very low probability of 
ever figuring out what machine it originally came from.


I didn't know the necessary voltages for it - I mean, the grounds and +5V 
are obvious, but I didn't know what it needed on pin 6. Given where I got 
it from, there's probably a fair chance that it's faulty (and encoders 
generally live a hard life), but I'll have to try powering it up now.


Just FYI if you're documenting things, mine has a very slightly different 
PCB to accommodate a pair of tantalum caps on the inputs, rather than the 
electrolytics on yours - caps are both rated 10uF, 35V. The encoder on mine 
is the same p/n but in a black plastic package rather than white ceramic 
(date code 7649). Sticker on the PCB underside says p/n 2129-009 and s/n 
720 097.


(It's definitely -12V, not -5V? I'm just thinking that the -12V noted on 
your schematic is quite close the the 15V rating on the cap - although that 
could explain why my later setup got caps rated to 35V, too)


cheers!

Jules

Re: Votrax Type N Talk or PSS, Intextalker, Microvox

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 12/1/20 7:28 PM, Tony Aiuto via cctalk wrote:

Oh.. That brings back memories. We had a Votrax with a serial interface in
the computer room.
I configured it as a printer so I could yell into the room..

echo Hey Alan. Look at the console and change the tape to the one requested
| lpr -Pvotrax


That's actually... useful. I've never really known what people did with 
them, beyond the occasional little bit of amusement.


I've got a serial-interfaced one based around an RCA 1802 which I last had 
hooked up to an Apple II a few years ago, but it's one of those "cool to 
have" things rather than really serving any purpose.

Re: Seagate Elite "reverse surging" noise

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 11/14/20 11:09 AM, Richard Pope wrote:

Jules,
     That sounds like a spindle motor bearing that is going bad. Yes, it 
will get worst and the motor will fail to spin up at one point. I wouldn't 
use this drive for anything that is important. Remember these motors don't 
have a lot of torque.


Thanks, Rich. I have a feeling that these drives have 14 platters, so the 
guts probably look quite impressive - perhaps I'll find something "non 
critical" to run it up until the point that it does fail, then swap the 
"good" one in and make a clear acrylic case for it so it can live on as a 
display piece.


(my brain still thinks of 1995 as "recent", but I suppose it was 25 years ago)

Jules

Seagate Elite "reverse surging" noise

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

I picked up a couple of 9GB Seagate Elite SCSI disks the other day (model 
410800N, 1995-vintage but 5.25" FH units).


Both drives spin up, both pass r/w tests successfully. On one unit, the 
spindle motor sound is constant. On the other, however, it makes a sound 
that I can best describe as "reverse surging", where every 5 seconds or 
thereabouts there's a very brief lowering in tone before the "normal" sound 
resumes.


Anyone familiar with the Elite range know if "some of them just do that", 
or if it's likely to be some form of fault (which may only get worse)? I've 
never encountered a disk which does this before; my ear's not detecting any 
kind of speed increase prior to the decrease (and I don't know if that's 
what's really going on or not), but that's what my brain wants to think is 
happening. However, if the speed really was fluctuating to the point that I 
could hear it then I'm surprised that I'm not getting read/write problems.


cheers

Jules

Toaster Flyer - proprietary drives?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

I've been talking to the guy in NYC who has the storage portion of what 
appears to have been part of a Toaster Flyer setup (I forget who, but 
someone on the list forwarded details a few months ago) - two 5.25" 
full-height SCSI drives, a 3.5" SCSI drive, passive ISA backplane, and some 
form of TBC card (made by DPS).


I'm not sure who made the 3.5" drive, but the two FH ones appear to be 9GB 
Seagate Elites (I'm assuming they were the two video stores, and the 3.5" 
was for audio).


The big question is whether in a Flyer environment the drives run custom 
microcode or will have been LLFed to something other than a "standard" 512 
byte block size - I believe that the Flyer was really pushing the 
boundaries of what was possible when it was current, and the majority of 
drives on the market just didn't have the necessary throughput (I see a 
"Newtek approved" sticker on one of the Seagates). I know that the storage 
was considered "proprietary", but I don't know if that just means that the 
filesystem was Flyer-specific (i.e. not AFFS), or if there was more to it 
than that.


cheers

Jules

Re: Compaq Portable II PSU - value of C13?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 10/3/20 4:35 PM, Bill Degnan wrote:

that's a good question.  I'd like to get more info on that supply as well.


There's some info here on the connector pinout, in case you haven't seen it 
before, but I've been unable to find any schematics so far:


https://oldcrap.org/2018/02/04/compaq-portable-ii/

There's an oddball 1700uF cap on the supply which has an additional third 
lead sticking out the top of the can - I don't think that's something I've 
seen before. I don't think the third lead is actually connected to 
anything, so maybe it's only there for structural support. Weird, though.

Re: Compaq Portable II PSU - value of C13?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 10/3/20 4:34 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:


Hi all,

Does anyone happen to know the value of C13 in a Compaq Portable II power 


Additional question, does anyone know the nature of the ST506-IDE bridge in 
these machines? My hard disk is a Miniscribe 8212, which I think has two 
heads and 615 cylinders (at 17spt), giving ~10MB formatted.


However there's a sticker on top of the drive saying "type 1" - according 
to a Compaq reference I found, that's for a drive with 306 cylinders and 
four heads (and again 17spt). It's still ~10MB, but obviously a completely 
different geometry.


So, does the Compaq bridge do translation between logical and physical 
geometry (and so the bridge presents it as a four-head drive even though 
it's not)? Or has someone perhaps put a drive from a different system in 
there at some point (and so the "type 1" refers to that unknown system's 
BIOS drive table)?


The Compaq BIOS table has an entry as type 15 which is all zeros, so that's 
possibly some sort of "user defined" option, although I don't know if it 
can store the parameters in NVRAM and treat it as a bootable device, or if 
it could only be accessed via floppy boot. I have no idea what the original 
stored system settings were - the battery's long-gone.

Compaq Portable II PSU - value of C13?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hi all,

Does anyone happen to know the value of C13 in a Compaq Portable II power 
supply? It's a small-ish tantalum that lives next to the heatsink between 
U6 and U7 - although mine doesn't live any more, having just roasted itself 
in spectacular fashion.


Quite possibly there's some other fault at play, but on the other hand it 
may have just been its time; tantalums in vintage stuff seem a little prone 
to failure.


cheers

Jules

Re: Disabling SCSI parity checking to dump disk on ACB4000 MFM-SCSI adapter?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/26/20 10:32 AM, Michael Engel via cctech wrote:
Using DOS might be another option, I seem to hit a roadblock with every 
Unix version I try...


hmm, have a look here:

http://ftp.vim.org/ftp/pub/ibiblio/kernel/patches/scsi

... adaptec-40XX-1.02.tar.gz looks like it might do the trick. Use at your 
own risk etc. :-)

Re: Disabling SCSI parity checking to dump disk on ACB4000 MFM-SCSI adapter?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/26/20 10:56 AM, Al Kossow via cctech wrote:

ACB4000s aren't common command set.
it expects the driver to tell it the drive parameters


I'm possibly/probably wrong, but I thought the ACB-4000 only needs the 
parameters setting prior to format - I don't know it it has some form of 
non volatile RAM (unlikely) or if it stores the params in the first sector 
on the drive and then offsets r/w requests by a set amount (I know at least 
one vendor's board did that) so that they don't get overwritten.

Re: Disabling SCSI parity checking to dump disk on ACB4000 MFM-SCSI adapter?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/25/20 12:31 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

On 9/25/20 10:08 AM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote:

I was able to dump Torch Triple X System V, Release 1 Version 1.2
If anyone is interested I can share the image.


I have a Torch Quad X CPU prototype CPU, missing the ASIC


Interesting. I had a couple of Quad-X systems; one went off to the Centre 
for Computing History when I moved to the US, but the other I parked at 
TNMoC and can hopefully get back at some stage (post-pandemic). I don't 
know how many QX systems were made, but I don't think it was many - and 
they're probably significantly rare in the US.


I do have some Quad-X source/design bits and pieces, I believe - I 
inherited a pile of Torch corporate hardware ~15 years ago, and among that 
were a couple of drives which had come from one of the company servers.


cheers

Jules

Re: Disabling SCSI parity checking to dump disk on ACB4000 MFM-SCSI adapter?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/23/20 3:28 PM, Michael Engel via cctech wrote:
It seems that the problem lies in the firmware of the ACB4000, which 
doesn´t seem to support some standard commands, e.g. the INQUIRY command. 
Most recent Linux SCSI drivers seem to use this command.


Lack of Inquiry support seems to be quite typical for early SCSI devices, 
sadly - and the Linux kernel at least has depended on it for a very long 
time. I remember trying to work out how to bypass it in the kernel source, 
but there were so many layers of code (without any design-type docs that I 
could find) that I ended up homebrewing a SCSI controller out of a few TTL 
chips and hacking some user-land code to drive it. From what I recall (this 
was around 15 years ago now) there aren't any timeouts to worry about on 
the HBA side of things, only on the targets, so it didn't matter that it 
was slow as molasses.


cheers

Jules

Re: Osborne 1 keyboard repair?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/21/20 6:41 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:

I cleaned the now exposed membrane using Isopropyl alcohol - no change in
resistance.


I don't think you've really exposed anything, have you? The membrane is 
going to be three layers - a bottom layer with traces on the upper side, a 
spacer layer, then the top layer with traces on the underside; you're 
looking at the top of the membrane from the "outside".


I expect it's all heat-staked together, but it might be possible to 
dismantle, separate the layers, clean the conductive surfaces and the 
spacer, then reassemble.


My guess is that what happens is either:

a) repeated keypresses over time result in some conductive material wearing 
off and depositing itself on the spacer, eventually bridging the gap and 
registering as a short/press.


b) corrosion of the conductive surfaces results in the same thing.

Either way, cleaning would likely fix it - but only if the membrane comes 
apart; it may well be sealed together at the edges.


Alternately you might, I suppose, be able to drill a small hole through the 
membrane close to the problem area and inject some cleaning solution 
between the layers that way, but I don't know how successful that would be.


cheers

Jules

Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/8/20 6:04 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Date and time of Command.com and any other DOS files will identify the 
version number.


I've got 11/26/85 on command.com.


DIR /A  or
DIR /A:H
will let you see the hidden files (presumably IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS; PC-DOS 
had IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM instead)


The /a switch isn't part of the dir command in whatever 3.3 version I have. 
However, I just wrote a DOS 6.22 boot disk and that shows three hidden 
files on the hard disk:


  MSDOS.SYS (11/18/85)
  MIO.SYS   (11/18/85)
  SD.INI

I'm guessing that the 'M' in MIO.SYS is "Mitsubishi" and the OS is tailored 
in some way to the machine.


TYPEing "sd.ini" indicates that it's related to Norton Speed Disk - not a 
program I'm familiar with, but as that appears to be a defragmenter, it 
might hint at why my drive isn't bootable and seems to be having problems 
with various executables - I wonder if the directory structure "looks 
sane", but file contents have been completely mangled.



Can you COPY files from the HDD to floppy?


Just filling up a few 360K disks with files at random so far, yes. But 
difficult to say if the file contents are correct.


Looking at the drive contents, incidentally, I didn't see anything that 
explains (or interacts with) that unusual video hardware - it basically 
just holds DOS and a bunch of documents written by the original owner. 
Maybe they got suckered into buying this fancy graphics hardware without 
having any actual need for it, and then of course EGA and VGA came along 
and rendered it obsolete anyway.


It is probably completely CGA compatible, unless you invoke of of its other 
modes.


Maybe. Assuming that the hard drive's directory contents are intact, and 
therefore there's nothing too unusual on the drive, I've perhaps got 
nothing to lose by reformatting - the only issue is that MIO.SYS, how it 
differs from Microsoft's, whether it's corrupt or not, and how - if it is 
intact - I can migrate it over post-install.


Of course maybe speed disk (if that is even the cause of my problems) has 
some kind of backup / undo aspect, but I doubt it.

Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/7/20 6:18 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

Floppy boot seems like the next step.


OK, it boots off a DOS 3.3 floppy if that floppy is inserted before it 
attempts to boot from the hard disk. If I wait for it to do its "system 
file not found" bit, followed by a subsequent prompt to insert boot media 
and press a key, it attempts to access the floppy drive but then goes off 
into la-la land. Odd.


But anyway, taking the successful floppy boot route, I can certainly access 
the hard disk in terms of bringing up directory listings and TYPEing files 
to the display. So far, attempts to run anything from the drive just result 
in a lock-up (keyboard immediately unresponsive, hard reset required). 
There appear to be DOS utils on the drive, and command.com, but I've not 
checked for hidden system files yet. fdisk shows the partition as active.



Got an IBM "Advanced Diagnostics" floppy to try?


No, but I see that the minuszerodegrees site has an image, so I'll write 
that out and see what happens.


Looking at the drive contents, incidentally, I didn't see anything that 
explains (or interacts with) that unusual video hardware - it basically 
just holds DOS and a bunch of documents written by the original owner. 
Maybe they got suckered into buying this fancy graphics hardware without 
having any actual need for it, and then of course EGA and VGA came along 
and rendered it obsolete anyway.


XT controllers tended to NOT be interchangeable, even between various OEMs 
of Xebec!


Yes - something that people often seem to forget, too. I've run into that 
quite often, where someone will hang onto an old drive because of the 
contents, but they'll dump the controller that it was formatted against.



I don't know what the incompatability was.


I don't think there was any kind of standard at all for what the low level 
looked like - vendors were free to do what they wanted in terms of what 
values they used for flags and how they actually ordered things within the 
sector header. I suppose there were some tweaks made over time for 
optimization or reliability (or at least, recovery) reasons, too, which is 
why even a single vendor had a few different incompatible formats.


I expect it was the same in the SCSI and IDE worlds, but of course with 
those "the controller" which handles formatting is really part of the 
package, so it wasn't an issue.


Jules

Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/7/20 2:22 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
And, even if it were somehow "compatible" with a completely different 
hard disk controller, "COMMAND ERROR" doesn't sound like anybody's error 
message for a wiped drive.  More likely to be a generic "READ ERROR"


I agree "read error" would seem more sensible, but this thing's quirky 
enough that I wouldn't rule anything out right now. 


Progress! I started looking everything over again, picking stuff apart, 
reassembling etc. - eventually happening to notice quite by chance how 
rough the very end of the hard disk control cable felt as I pushed the 
connector back onto the drive. Out with the loupe, and sure enough - the 
cable cut wasn't particularly clean across the entire width, and there was 
a single strand of wire just long enough to bridge across two of the 
conductors.


Now I'm getting "system file not found or disk read error", which although 
disappointing is at least far more sane. I'll have to rustle up a floppy 
boot disk and see if I can get any access that way.


I have no idea of this machine's history - I don't even know where I got 
it. Maybe those are factory cables, maybe not. Maybe previous owners goofed 
around with the system over the years, maybe the drive itself is 
non-original even (and contains nothing relevant to the video board, even 
if it was bootable). After doing an initial PSU test the other day, I did 
strip it down to bare minimum - just system board and video - so it's 
possible the drive cable wasn't shorted prior to my disturbing things.


cheers

Jules

Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/7/20 1:17 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
BTW, XT compatibles with the Xebec (and Xebec-like) hard disk controllers 
would not give a "COMMAND ERROR" message for a Low-level-formatted/wiped 
hard disk.   Probably a "1701" error.


This one's a Xebec, almost identical to one of the branded variants that 
IBM used, actually. It's got the four jumpers lower-right for selecting 
different drive types, but it also has jumpers for ROM and I/O address 
selection, which I don't think I recall seeing before on the boards that 
IBM used.


One of the ROMs is labeled as "104833A", which isn't too inconsistent with 
what I've seen on IBM ones (they generally seem to have a 10483xx format). 
The other ROM has a Mitsubishi Electric sticker though, labeled as "FXD 
J12" and "213". One of the functions is presumably to hold custom drive 
parameters, selected via the four board jumpers, but I don't know what 
other stuff might typically be in that ROM - I didn't want to automatically 
rule out it being the source of the "command error" (where other responses 
might be issued for the same underlying error by other firmware)


The hard drive in the system is a Miniscribe M3425; at power-on it spins 
up, runs the heads in and back out, then blinks its LED once - which I 
believe is normal, "all is well" behavior, and if there were a significant 
fault with the spindle speed or positioning then it would start blinking 
out an error code.


And, even if it were somehow "compatible" with a completely different hard 
disk controller, "COMMAND ERROR" doesn't sound like anybody's error message 
for a wiped drive.  More likely to be a generic "READ ERROR"


I agree "read error" would seem more sensible, but this thing's quirky 
enough that I wouldn't rule anything out right now. I didn't actually try 
starting the system with the hard disk controller in place but the drive 
not attached - maybe I'll do that just to see if there's any change in 
behavior.


Jules

Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/7/20 1:04 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
"DOS based utility program to poke at the contents and/or snarf the int a 
file on disk"?

DEBUG.COM


Funny, I've only ever used it for quick bits of assembly (just a couple of 
days ago, in fact), and to do things such as kicking off the formatter 
embedded in the ROM on some controllers. It didn't even occur to me that it 
probably has some dumping/loading abilities too! I'll dig some docs out...


My buddy had a few Sperry 5160-like machines, as well as some PBM-1000's 
(Micropro CP/M machine).  They were dumpstered immediately when he died 5 
years ago.


Honestly I've always been a bit indifferent about the PC stuff (which is 
probably why I've had these for around a decade and am only now really 
looking at them) - I'd still rather save them when I see them, though (at 
least up until the point where I run out of space - but "early x86 PC" 
seems to have quite a following these days).


cheers

Jules

Re: AW: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/7/20 2:26 AM, Veit, Holger wrote:

Could this be a PGC card clone?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Graphics_Controller


That had crossed my mind at one point, but there's no horsepower to this 
card at all - it's just TTL, RAM, BIOS and the 6845.


The color output *appears* to be TTL level - or, at least, that's what it's 
using at power-on. It's not impossible, I suppose, for it to be switchable 
to some kind of analog mode, thereby giving more color depth.


I'm wondering if it doesn't have some form of high-resolution bitmap mode 
for visualization, i.e. display construction would be processor-intensive 
and intended for static images/diagrams. I don't know if that really makes 
sense though because it would also imply having to switch the monitor - 
i.e. starting the machine with a CGA type display plugged in, then 
physically moving to something else later.


On the back of that, I just found this thread too which refers to an 
identical board:


http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?48718-3-Weird-Video-Cards-any-idea-about-what-they-do

... nothing there really "helps", but someone's comment about the medical 
field and a higher-resolution display via the RCA jack is interesting - 
that would at least get around the need to switch monitors (well, unless 
there was some special autodetecting analog/digital monitor that was sold 
to go with the hardware, I suppose).


It's a shame that the hard disk in the machine is either snafu or has been 
wiped - the contents would have helped shed light on things. There's an 
EPROM as part of the video hardware; anyone know of a DOS-based util to 
poke at the contents and/or snarf them into a file on disk? It's possible I 
suppose that there might be some useful strings hidden away in there.


cheers

Jules

Re: CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/7/20 8:17 AM, newsgro...@micromuseum.co.uk wrote:

You might find reading this thread useful:

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=57843


That's excellent - thankyou! I'd been trying to find anything about this 
machine at all and not having much luck (I'll print all that out and leave 
it inside the case, I think). I wonder what the "advanced features" 
governed by switch 3/3 were :-)


I was hoping there would still be data on the hard disk (it's always fun 
seeing how these machines were used) but sadly mine throws up a "command 
error" from the disk hardware at startup - so either the drive's bad, has 
been LLFed prior to disposal, or there's an issue with the controller itself.


Jules

IBM 5160 math copro switch

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Sifting through my XTs and clones... I've had three so far with no math 
copro (8087) fitted, but switch 2 of SW1 is set to off.


IBM docs say off is "math copro installed" and on is the "installed" 
position, i.e. the reverse of what I'm seeing (the minuszerodegrees site 
repeats this, although I expect that just copied what's in the manual, too).


These three machines (two are 5160's, the other a clone) came from 
completely different sources - it seems unlikely that all three had 8087's 
fitted which were pulled at some point. Googling a few more system board 
images, ones with 8087's have that switch on - but for boards without, the 
setting seems to be pretty much 50/50.


Did the meaning of the switch perhaps change at some point (both of my 
5160's are late model 256-640 boards), and rather than being a simple 
installed / not installed it was more along the lines of "software should 
use it if present / software should never use it"? After all, it's not like 
the BIOS will do anything with an 8087; it's only there for software 
specifically coded to make use of it.


I suppose it's also possible that users were in the habit of first setting 
all the switches to off when configuring a machine, then setting the 
relevant ones to on according to their memory/floppy/video config - and the 
copro setting just got overlooked.


Weird, anyway.

Jules

CGA card (Mitsubishi Electric) with 192K RAM?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Digging through old PCs, on a battery-removal spree... came across a Sperry 
3070 XT-a-like (I wouldn't quite call it a clone, it's a bit goofy) which 
has a Mitsubishi Electric system board, RAM expansion, and video hardware.


The video hardware is... odd. It's actually two full-length boards, joined 
with a large IDC cable along the top edge as well as via the ISA bus. The 
only "complex" IC is a 6845 - other than that it's masses of TTL.


Output is via a DE9, and pinouts seem consistent with CGA (15.7KHz on pin 
8, 60Hz on pin 9, 3/4/5 at TTL levels and 1/2 ground). There's also an RCA 
jack on the backplate, and that 6845 IC... it all seems very CGA-like, 
except that total video memory is 192KB.


CGA was normally 16KB, I believe. Hercules and EGA 64KB, although I think 
toward the end of EGA's existence there was a 192KB option. Physical 
outputs aren't consistent with EGA's two bits per pixel, though.


Does this ring any bells with anyone? I don't know why it needs such a 
large amount of RAM if it's stuck with CGA capabilities. One board is 
branded WECD10 and the other WECD11, but there's no "model" or anything.


cheers

Jules

Re: Looking for an IDE simulator

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 8/28/20 12:40 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

Also, I discovered recently that there is a maximum number of hours
measured in years on SSDs and systems will start throwing SMART
errors when that is exceeded. I have a few doing that now on systems
with minimal writes but lots of hours.

There are long discussions elsewhere of the dangers of using non-industrial
rated CFs and SDs in storage applications.


I found it next to impossible to find information on what - if any - 
technology a particular SSD uses to extend lifespan; while manufacturers 
all compete on things like capacity and speed, very few of them seem 
interested in telling us how long their product might last.

Seeking PET 4016/32 'shift' keycap

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

After over a decade of keeping eyes peeled, I found a Commodore PET 4016 at 
a yard sale yesterday (it actually wasn't in the sale, but there was some 
old phone stuff there, and when I see anything like that I always ask the 
owner if they happen to have any vintage computer stuff hiding away).


The case is pretty battered, and it was disgusting and reeked of rodent 
urine, but after cleaning it and going over things it (incredibly) actually 
works.


I am, however, missing a right shift keycap. Does anyone happen to have a 
junker (perhaps one that's already missing keys) and so would be willing to 
sell me one? It's identical to the left-side, and I think is shared with 
the 4032 models. Cosmetically the machine's never going to be perfect (at 
least not without some careful gluing on a couple of cracks and a full 
repaint), but a complete keyboard would improve things considerably!


thanks

Jules

Re: FS: Video Toaster partial system

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 6/30/20 11:58 AM, JP Hindin via cctalk wrote:


A person on Reddit picked up what appears to be part of a Video Toaster and 
is interested in getting it to someone who can actually use it. I offered 
to pass on the message-


The system is in a PC case, with two full-height 5.25" Seagate SCSI disks 
and a third-height 3.5" IBM SCSI disk, plus an optical drive and two 3.5" 
floppy disk drives.


There's a standard-looking AT power supply and a (looks like) passive 
16-bit ISA bus that has a single card in it which matches a NewTek TBCii 
"Time Base Correction" board.


FWIW I don't know to what extent some form of time base correction was 
required; I think Toasters are still capable of "doing stuff" in other 
ways, and this would have been a standalone [optional] product.


I've got three machines with Toasters, and a 286 PC with time base 
correction hardware, but sadly no docs at present. The 286 PC seems to be 
similar to "your" setup, in that it's only really used for its PSU and ISA 
backplane; mine has a Progressive Image Technology "Kitchen Sync" board 
fitted, along with AmiLink VM-T and VM-TRR boards.


I've sent the person an email, anyway. If it's within driving distance I'll 
try and acquire the drives and card at least (I got the impression they 
might be interested in hanging on to the case/PSU) - given that old drives 
don't travel well I don't think I'd mess with shipping, though.


cheers

Jules

Re: Amiga Vendors?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 6/11/20 5:58 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 at 09:52, Ethan Dicks via cctalk
 wrote:


I'd say the Amiga really lost its shine around 20 years ago, about the
time Linux was getting serious and Windows 98 dominated the desktop.


Unfortunately, yes, I think you're right.


The 4000T that I have was built in May of '96, and it amazes me that there 
was any kind of market for it in light of how widespread PCs on the desktop 
had become by that time.



The original RISC PC had 2 processor slots, but the 2nd was intended
for co-processors, such as an x86-32 chip which allowed RISC OS to run
DOS or Windows 3 (or a limited version of Win95) in a window on the
RISC OS desktop.


I had a StrongARM-based machine with a 486dx4-100 co-processor; it was a 
really nice system, and plenty responsive enough for the time, but I never 
really got on with RISC OS as an operating system. It's a shame Acorn never 
for ARX off the ground.



There was also a 3rd party multiprocessor board, the Hydra from
Simtech


I actually have one of those still (which will probably need a home one day 
as I no longer have any hardware that supports it). I got it from somewhere 
back in my "collect all things Acorn-related" days, but I don't think I 
ever even plugged it in.


cheers

Jules

Re: Restarting Old Amiga's

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 6/10/20 10:32 AM, Ethan O'Toole wrote:
use that instead - the T model looks a bit too much like a crazy mid-90's 
PC for my tastes (although the SCSI's nice).


The 4000T has IDE! I have one of those CF card to IDE boards on a back 
expansion slot, allowing it to be removed.


Well, it has IDE *as well*. ;-) Mine's running a SCSI hard disk and CDROM 
drive. It's a 2GB disk with a wide interface, incidentally, then a 
narrow-to-wide adapter affixed to that to allow it to be used in the 
machine - I suppose it's possible it left the factory like that, but far 
more likely that a previous owner upgraded it. I've not been able to find 
anything that tells me what stock 4000T storage options were (although the 
Wikipedia entry for the 4000 desktop claims those just had a 120MB disk)



Thoughts on this, incidentally? https://www.ebay.com/itm/254545704933
It's just an empty case, not even a complete machine, which claims to 
have sold. No PSU, no "middle" drive bay hardware. I wonder if a friend 
of the seller "bought" it and it was just a trick to drive up prices or 
something - $550 seems ridiculous for an empty box, but I don't "do" ebay 
and don't know how crazy people are or what kind of scams go on.


That is crazy. To buy something to "mark to market" the price real high ... 
you would still have to pay the crazy eBay fees.


Yeah, it's weird. Mind you I was doing some poking around and A4000 
desktop/tower parts prices seem to generally be insanely high across the 
board.


cheers

Jules

Re: Restarting Old Amiga's

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 6/9/20 1:19 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:
My friend found the deal on the A4000Ts which includes mine. They weren't 
really cheap, and it was 3 in one deal surrounded by a ton of unknowns. All 
the manuals for the other things like the 060 accelerator and stuff -- the 
hardware wasn't with the systems. Ours have the slow CPU cards and the 
A4000T cases look like cheap PCs and are crazy large and empty, and the IO 
card on the back with the SCSI ribbons just seems poorly designed.


Yup. Mine's like that, too. Just an '040, and a case that seems far too big 
for what's inside. If my "regular" 4000 was working I'd almost be inclined 
to use that instead - the T model looks a bit too much like a crazy 
mid-90's PC for my tastes (although the SCSI's nice).


Thoughts on this, incidentally? https://www.ebay.com/itm/254545704933
It's just an empty case, not even a complete machine, which claims to have 
sold. No PSU, no "middle" drive bay hardware. I wonder if a friend of the 
seller "bought" it and it was just a trick to drive up prices or something 
- $550 seems ridiculous for an empty box, but I don't "do" ebay and don't 
know how crazy people are or what kind of scams go on.


cheers

Jules

Re: Restarting Old Amiga's

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 6/8/20 4:18 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:
I was very active in collecting, and on this list at the beginning.  I 
also have a couple A1200’s that need work, and I used to have a couple 
A2000’s (those went to Eric Smith probably 15-20 years ago).  There is 
also a partial A500, unfortunately I think it’s missing the keyboard, IIRC.


Nice! My current Amiga list is an A500, A600 (under repair, I think I'm 
going to replace the fat agnus NTSC chip as a shot in the dark), A2500 
(68020, 4MB, SD2SCSI, Toaster) and an A4000T (in great condition but I do 
need to recap it. Bought all the caps, not thrilled about the work ahead of 
me.)


It's nice to see some other "non mainstream" Amigas out there. My list:

A1000 with 1MB board and 68010
A1000 with 1.5MB board
A2000HD with '030 and Toaster (100MB disk)
A2500 with '030, genlock and '286 coprocessor (100MB disk)
A4000 with '040 and Toaster (2 x 850MB disks)
A4000T with '040, Toaster and timebase corrector / sync generator (2GB disk)

There's also a '286 PC which I believe is just there for its ISA backplane 
and is hosting a bunch of video-related cards - that along with the 
A2000HD, A4000 and A4000T all came out of a TV production studio. There are 
also a few hand-held sync/channel controllers, too, but I don't know what 
else I'm missing in order to make everything "do stuff".


The A4000 is, at least for now, beyond hope - it had quite extensive 
battery corrosion and wasn't showing signs of life even after going over it 
with a loupe and patching PCB traces. Either I missed something, or there's 
internal damage to one or more of the ICs. I did swap the A3640 into the 
A4000T, so I know that's working and the fault is local to the main logic 
board.


Oh, as you have one too, any idea how many A4000Ts were made? I've been 
curious about that lately. It seems that Commodore put out around 200, but 
I can't find figures/estimates for the Escom-built machines (which mine is).


cheers

Jules

Re: Restarting Old Amiga's

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 6/8/20 3:02 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

I have the urge to get my Amiga’s back up and running.  I’m still trying
to find my main Amiga A3000, but have found my A500 and my A600.  The
problem is, I don’t remember the last time I powered these on.  It’s
been a long time since I’ve had time.  In the case of the A3000, I think
it’s been about 17 years.  My Atari TT030 has been even longer. :-(

Any advice about powering them up?


As others have said, battery corrosion is a definite possibility, at least 
for the 3000. YMMV with hard drives, too - I think 100MB Quantums were the 
norm, and they do seem to be prone to stiction issues as they get older 
(the one in my 2500 sometimes needs a little help to get going)


Other than that it's common sense stuff though, visual check for issues, 
clean floppy drive heads, isolate and test PSU, try applying power, reseat 
stuff as necessary.


Jules

Re: Bob Davis and old computer stuff

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 4/26/20 6:45 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
You're making me feel very greedy, as I have 4 of them. All different, 
and none for sale...


:-)  I've been looking for one ever since I moved to the US 12 years ago, 
but they seem to have all vanished - I remember I'd see them surface every 
once in a while back in the UK, but could never quite justify the space 
over there that one would have taken up.


A PERQ is definitely something in my "top five" list of things I'd like to 
find, though.


cheers

Jules

Re: Core Memory Photo

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 4/15/20 6:22 PM, keith--- via cctalk wrote:

I have three others with the cover still on :)  I want to make a clear
plexiglass cover for them.


Just for fun, this is what I have from a Lockheed MAC-16 machine:

http://www.classiccmp.org/acornia/tmp/catcore.jpg

... the white line is a cat hair, just to give an idea of scale. It's 
incredibly fine stuff (and if I remember right this board was from 1970; I 
didn't think core got that compact until more toward the end of the decade, 
right at the tail end of core's era, when semiconductor RAM had become 
commonplace).


*somewhere* I have a microscope, so might try photographing through that at 
some point; this was the best I could do with a loupe held over my camera's 
lens.


I've wondered about doing the plexiglass thing too, just for display 
purposes (the planes are damaged on both boards that I have, and I'm not 
sure if anyone has an intact MAC-16 anywhere anyway), but then I got to 
wondering what the point was given that it needs magnification to really 
see anything anyway :-)


cheers

Jules

Re: Mystery 1970 core board

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 3/4/20 1:15 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

found it in this MAC-16 ad

https://adspast.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=62927


Thanks, Al! Definitely it. Hopefully I'll make it back to the site at some 
point and see if there are more related boards, although I think everything 
that was left had been "decommissioned" and had the card edges snipped off 
(which is the case for the diode-matrix ROM boot board that I snagged at 
the same time)

Re: Mystery 1970 core board

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 3/3/20 6:18 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:



Hopefully collective wisdom can help on this one - does anyone have a clue 
what system this core board was from


I think I may have figured it out. Back when I picked these up (I have 
another one, too) they were in a pile of boards from all sorts of different 
systems, as they were at a location which used to be an electronics surplus 
store - so I figured they could be anything.


However, I picked up a couple of Lockheed MAC-16 front panels at the time, 
and I was just digging through some info on that machine and realized that 
it was also known as the LEC-16; in light of that, the little "LEC" logo on 
these boards seems telling. That was a 16 bit system (and as Brent 
mentioned, there may be another set of core hidden on the other side of the 
plane) and was around the 1969/1970 timeframe, so that fits, too.

Re: Mystery 1970 core board

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 3/3/20 9:32 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

It looks to be 16 bits wide rather than 8, I think you'll find there's
another 8 bit-arrays of cores on the underside of the planar-array
daughter board.


You may well be right; I can't quite tell for sure as there's not much 
clearance between the two, but I can see a nest of wires in there.



Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be a complete module. It looks like
the inhibit drivers and 3/4 of the address drivers would have been on
another board.


Well, it does have some damage to it, as does another identical board that 
I have, so it's unlikely it could ever be used again; I may get a chance to 
go back to the site where I picked these up from one day though, and if so 
I will take a look, just for the sake of completeness.


cheers

Jules

Mystery 1970 core board

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hopefully collective wisdom can help on this one - does anyone have a clue 
what system this core board was from: 
http://www.classiccmp.org/acornia/tmp/coresmall.jpg


The curved edge connectors (presumably to make board insertion easier) are 
quite distinctive, plus the way the power's fed in via an edge connector on 
the "far" side of the board. What's interesting to me is the core ring 
size; the TTL ICs on the board have 1970 date codes, but I didn't think 
that the rings got quite that small until right at the end of core's era, 
more toward the end of the decade.


It seems to be 8 blocks of 64x64, i.e. 4KB. p/n on the main board of 
2001000755, and just hidden from view under the core daughterboard is a 
logo that says "LEC", which I suppose might be meaningful.


There's a bigger (2181x1863) image as "coreboard.jpg" in the same dir if 
more detail helps (I doubt it), but it's 2.4MB so maybe save Jay's 
bandwidth by only looking at that one if you absolutely have to :-)


thanks,

Jules

Re: Mystery mid-70's keyboards

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 12/28/19 12:06 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:

"marg set" sounds like a word processor.


Looks like a data entry keyboard...


Yup, the ASCII control codes on the keys seemed out of place for a 
wordprocessor, but then there's that "marg set" key. I'd wondered about 
some kind of early electronic typesetting system, but I'm hoping someone 
will know exactly what it is. The five blank keys are weird, too 
(particularly the out of place black one).


The copper ground plane across the top of the PCB is kinda odd as well and 
not the sort of construction I'd expect from a mere keyboard.


cheers

Jules

Lockheed MAC-16

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Are there any surviving Lockheed MAC-16 machines anywhere? And/or does 
anyone have a good photo of the front? (All I've been able to find online 
is the angled shot that's on the wikipedia page, plus a few grainy images 
from marketing info).


I rescued a couple of panels a little while ago, but all I have are the 
PCB, switch and bulb-holder assemblies; it might be fun at some point to 
mock up a surrounding bezel/overlay, but I'd need some good quality 
reference material for that.


cheers

Jules

Mystery mid-70's keyboards

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hey all,

I was wondering if anyone knows what system either of these two keyboards 
came from:


1) APL keyboard made by Maxi-switch, IC date codes in 1976, p/n 2129-009, 
keyboard encoder has "NKBD-452 03-004-05":

  http://www.classiccmp.org/acornia/tmp/maxi.jpg

2) Keyboard branded as Licon 55-500129, IC date codes in 1973 and '74. Has 
three blank white keys, one blank gray key, and one blank black key, also 
"home mem", "marg set" and "video rvs":

  http://www.classiccmp.org/acornia/tmp/licon.jpg

I picked up both hoping that at least one would be simple parallel output 
and so useful for homebrew stuff, but I am curious about what they 
originally came from.


cheers

Jules

Re: HP 7220C plotter port settings

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 12/5/19 6:13 PM, Glen Slick wrote:


7220C_7220T_OperatingAndProgrammingManual_07220-90003_229pages_Feb81.pdf

http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=1567


doh! Thanks. I'd been to that site already, but somehow managed to 
completely miss the 'documentation' link. That should do the trick, I'm 
sure :-)


Jules

HP 7220C plotter port settings

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hi all,

I picked up an HP 7220C flatbed plotter the other day which (after freeing 
the stuck carriage) is responding to panel commands in 'local' mode. For 
the terminal RS-232 interface, does anyone happen to know:


a) The character size (7 or 8 bits)?

b) If the connection between terminal and plotter is supposed to be 
straight through (i.e. 1:1 pin mapping), null modem, or something else 
entirely?


I'm not sure if the plotter considers itself DTE or DCE, given that it has 
a modem output port (i.e. it sits partway along in the chain of things).


Oh, there's a "conf test" switch setting on the back - does anyone know the 
purpose of that? I'm wondering if it's supposed to echo back to the 
terminal any data that's sent to the plotter, but that's purely a guess. 
Sadly there don't seem to be any docs online (or much in the way of any 
info, to be honest).


thanks,

Jules

CRT faceplates / screen "mold"

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Many years ago I cut the faceplate off an HP display exhibiting serious 
decay of the sealant between the faceplate and the CRT itself, cleaned 
everything up, then reattached the plate just with a bead of sealant around 
the perimeter (where it wouldn't be seen once the bezel was back on).


Short of outright replacing the CRT with one of the same type, is that 
still accepted practice - or in the years since has someone worked out a 
way of applying new sealant across the entire face without getting air 
trapped in there, thereby maintaining the structural integrity of the original?


cheers

Jules

Re: TI994/A Power Supply

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 11/14/19 3:02 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:

I'm about 95% certain that it does NOT take line voltage in.


Hmm, I'll see if I can find a moment to take it apart later. It's 
interesting that it's a boxed unit with a cord that fits - but then it does 
have three broken keys (caps are kicking around in the box) so it's 
entirely possible that someone just parked it there for storage.


OK, the cord "fits", but having looked at it now I'm not at all convinced, 
either. The two-pin socket is actually the same as the four-pin socket on 
the other two machines, but with the upper two pins (intentionally) missing.


The PSU board inside appears to be a switcher, but I'd be inclined to agree 
with Allison that it's intended to run from low-voltage AC (I've put the 
machine back together now, but just realized that I should have checked the 
voltage rating on the rectifier stage's caps).


cheers

Jules

Re: TI994/A Power Supply

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 11/11/19 1:12 AM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 1:46 PM Jules Richardson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


I've got another /4A however which has a 2-pin plug on the back, and that
one appears to just take plain ol' 110VAC line voltage and the PSU is
completely internal (at least, there's a power cord with it which fits,
but
that one has a few broken keys and so I've never actually done anything
with it).



I'm about 95% certain that it does NOT take line voltage in.


Hmm, I'll see if I can find a moment to take it apart later. It's 
interesting that it's a boxed unit with a cord that fits - but then it does 
have three broken keys (caps are kicking around in the box) so it's 
entirely possible that someone just parked it there for storage.


cheers

Jules

Re: TI994/A Power Supply

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 11/4/19 7:39 AM, Allison Parent via cctalk wrote:

Do better research. The power is external transformer and internal low
voltage switch mode power supply.


It seems to depend on the variant. I've got a /4 and a /4A which have 4-pin 
plugs on the back, and these use an external PSU outputting 18VAC and 8.5VAC.


I've got another /4A however which has a 2-pin plug on the back, and that 
one appears to just take plain ol' 110VAC line voltage and the PSU is 
completely internal (at least, there's a power cord with it which fits, but 
that one has a few broken keys and so I've never actually done anything 
with it).


cheers

Jules

Re: VAX & PDP-11 Stuff To Clean Out

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 11/6/19 12:16 PM, David Coolbear via cctech wrote:

M5976-AA KZQSA SCSI Controller Q


Hmm, I could sure use one of those...

I bought a bunch of QBus boards from my recycler quite some time ago, but 
the systems that they'd been pulled from were run with SMD drives. Finding 
a working SMD drive is something of a challenge, but SCSI at least opens up 
possibilities of emulated storage (or real spinning rust, I may still have 
a suitable drive or two, albeit currently on the other side of the Atlantic)


The two VCB02 boards have me intrigued, too :-)

cheers

Jules

Re: Can't contact Dave McGuire AK4HZ

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 10/26/19 10:19 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
Dave McQuire keeps emailing me about the CAMAC controller boards, but he 
obviously is not getting my replies.

Anybody know how to contact him?


FYI I just threw him a message on facebook letting him know, although it's 
not saying that he's actually read it yet.


About the only thing more unreliable than email these days is facebook's 
message system ;-)


cheers

Jules

Re: Vintage computer store hints in Minneapolis?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/23/19 10:22 AM, JP Hindin via cctalk wrote:
I also rolled through The Ax-Man... 
for 3 hours because I'd never even heard of the place before and was 
absolutely astonished at what I'd found.


Despite getting to Minneapolis a few times a year, I've never been for 
exactly that reason - my wife's always with me and I don't think she'd 
handle three hours of me geeking out on old crap :-)

Re: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/24/19 7:02 AM, Electronics Plus wrote:

Computer Reset was in Dallas. This one is in Houston. Totally different
animal.


Thanks for the clarification - they're not too far, and this guy posted 
photos of a few items on Facebook which appeared to have been taken in a 
small garage - so there was the possibility that there was actually no "new 
warehouse" and this is just a van full of stuff that they hauled out of CR 
recently and are trying to resell.


Jules

Re: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/22/19 2:40 PM, Thomas Raguso via cctalk wrote:

This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale.


Is there any connection to Computer Reset in Dallas, or is this a 
completely different animal?

Re: Heath/Zenith Z100 technical...

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 9/11/19 3:51 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

I'll put up a few things on bitsavers under zenith


Thanks, Al!

I've got the bitmap board, plus S100 cards for floppy, Winchester, and an 
extra 256K of RAM (it has 256 on the mainboard, by the looks of it) - so if 
I can work out the keyboard issue somehow it could be a "complete" machine. 
Floppy drives on these were standard 5.25" Shugart interface, I believe 
(despite the FDC board having a 50-pin header more consistent with 8 inch).


Jules

Heath/Zenith Z100 technical...

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

I just picked up a board set from a Zenith Z-100 (not sure if it was a 110 
or 120 model) which had been junked. I threw this out on the sebhc mailing 
list too, but perhaps someone here knows:


a) If the machine's keyboard is completely passive (i.e. just a bunch of 
switches), or if there's any intelligence to it,


b) If the system will start up with no boards plugged in (other than the 
bitmap display PCB) - i.e. no S100 FDC or winchester,


c) If "yes" to the previous, whether the mainboard/bitmap board will 
function on just +5V and +/-12V (i.e. without the S100 +8V and +/-16V rails)


Trying to power up what I have might be fun, but I'm really not sure about 
the lack-of-keyboard issue - if it's just switches and decoded via the 
mainboard then rigging something might be possible, but if there's some 
kind of higher level serial protocol involved then maybe it's too much 
hassle. I don't have a S100 bus machine kicking around to power things with 
at present (but of course rigging something would not be too difficult).


I'm not sure what kind of details the documentation went into, either - 
I've got a Z-89 and the docs there are extremely technical, with full 
schematics, but I'm not seeing any equivalent online for the Z100 series 
(there seems to be very little out there about them at all - came too late 
in the S100 era, perhaps?)


cheers

Jules

Re: Decaying foam on PCBs

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 8/27/19 10:38 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
I'd probably just use 91% isopropanol.  No water to speak of, doesn't 
bother plastics--and cheap.


I do normally use it on boards for general cleaning - I was just assuming 
that this nasty sticky foam would be too much for it. I'll give it a go, 
though...


J.

Decaying foam on PCBs

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

I picked up a couple of HP 5036A logic trainers today, both of which have 
had goopy decaying foam come into contact on their PCBs. What's effective 
at removing it? I've only ever had problems with it in locations where I 
can use things such as citrus-based cleaners, but I'm a bit wary of using 
those around a PCB. Is regular Dawn/water likely to work?


thanks!

Jules

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/26/19 2:53 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

Genlock?
MOST video add-ons were combined onto a board with their own video card, 
rather than connecting to IBM's


It seems odd within a 5151/MDA context though - plus the system seems 
entirely self-contained, i.e. not designed to interact with any other video 
equipment.



Co-processor?
 Diamond Computer Trackstar was an Apple2 on an ISA card. It was even 
sold [briefly] by Radio Shack.
 Quadram Quadlink was an Apple2 on an ISA card.  The college bought 20 
of them.  14 were DOA.  8 of the replacements ("THESE ones are thoroughly 
tested") were also DOA.  One had a connector (right angle dual row?) 
mounted backwards, and could not be connected for testing.


Something like that is certainly sounding plausible to me - not necessarily 
Apple II, but *something* that provides non-x86 processor ability, and 
presumably which involves video output above and beyond MDA (otherwise why 
wouldn't it drive the MDA card directly), and yet still monochrome and 
compatible with a 5151.


But, MDA (or MDP as described) seems less likely.  "Who would want to do 
Visicalc or word processing without COLOR??"  There did exist a few 
after-market CGA cards that had DE9 and DB25 (printer).


I did manage to locate the original seller's listing, which didn't really 
provide any new information - but there were a couple of pictures of the 
monitor confirming that it is a 5151.


Was it in working order?  Or had somebody merely cabled the MDA video to a 
DE9 serial port?


The thought had crossed my mind, too. Seller's claim was that they had it 
booted to a DOS prompt, then smoke came out of the PSU; if they're honest 
then it's likely age-related demise of RF suppression caps or maybe a 
tantalum somewhere.


I did get the impression that they don't really know what they have, i.e. 
to them it's just an old XT (and therefore worth a small fortune).


The cable connecting the MDA's output to the mystery card does rather look 
like it was made for the purpose - it's conveniently long enough to bridge 
between one or two slots, and the cable appears to exit the connectors at a 
45 degree angle to account for the MDA's output being toward the top of the 
card while the input to the mystery card is toward the bottom.


We had a couple of "instructors" at the college who didn't see anything 
wrong with connecting any cables that fit, including swapping bus mouse and 
video, or wanting gender changers to try to connect a parallel printer to a 
25 pin serial port ormodem to printer port.   It is frustrating to try to 
deal with some people.


I suppose that's the only good thing about the modern "everything is USB" 
world... :/


cheers

Jules

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/26/19 11:25 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 13:23, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:


Someone on one of the Facebook vintage groups


Oh? Which one?


It's in Vintage Computer Club, posted on the 24th. Doubtless Facebook's 
buried it for you because it seems to enjoy hiding info from people 
whenever possible these days, but a search within the group for "5160" will 
presumably find it.


cheers,

Jules

Re: IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 7/26/19 9:50 AM, Tony Duell wrote:

Are you sure it's MDA rather than CGA. The reason I ask is that I have a
full-length 8-bit ISA card in my collection that connects between the CGA
card and its monitor (it also provides a composite video output if you want
that) _and_ inside the machine it connects between the floppy controller and
the drives.


Hi Tony,

The person who was asking about it said that it's a 5151 display, although 
I've not seen any photos showing the front of the machine/monitor, so I 
can't be 100% certain. Having said that, the lower part of the monitor's 
back is visible in one photo, and it has captive power + video cables off 
to the left and no controls, which seems consistent with a 5151; I believe 
that the 5153 and 5154 had a power socket and brightness/contrast controls 
on them.


There's a 6502 processor on said card and it claims to provide an emulation
of the Apple ][


That's an interesting beast. I did wonder if this was something along those 
lines, too, i.e. a non-x86 processor card for the purposes of emulating 
something else - but the only one I'm aware of is the XT/370, and I don't 
believe that did any kind of video pass-through (that and I think it was a 
three-board set, where this is two at most).



If yours is MDA then I wonder if it's some graphics add-on (remember
the original
MDA was text only). But most of those, like the Hercules, provided the text mode
as well and were stand-alone cards. It wasn't much extra logic to do that.


Indeed. Whatever it is still appears to run within the limits of the MDA 
display, so it's not color, and resolution-wise it must be more or less in 
line with Hercules. As you say, there wasn't a massive increase in logic 
when comparing Hercules to MDA, so it seems odd for a card to exist which 
still required an MDA adapter to be present; I feel there's got to be some 
additional functionality being offered, too.


cheers,

Jules

IBM 5160 with oddball MDA input/output card

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

Hi all,

Someone on one of the Facebook vintage groups found an IBM 5160 with an MDA 
display for sale in Australia, except that it's a bit odd in that the 
machine had what appears to be an MDA card, the output of which is then 
connected via a short external cable to the input on another card, and then 
an output that card is what's actually hooked up to the monitor.


The only internal photo of the machine is very poor, unfortunately. I'm 
reasonably confident that the "first" card in the "mystery" chain is MDA, 
it's full-length and alongside the DE-shell video output has the usual 
DB-25 for parallel. The "mystery" card is also full-length, and there's 
another full-length card immediately adjacent to it with no external 
connectors - that one could easily be RAM, or the hard disk controller etc. 
 but I suppose it's possible that the mystery item is actually a two-card 
set.


Anyway, any guesses as to what it might be? The implication is that the 
mystery card adds functionality to the MDA card (reminiscent of 3DFX boards 
years later), but of course is operating within the confines of what the 
MDA display's capable of.


cheers

Jules

Re: "industrial" PDP-11

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 5/15/19 6:25 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:


Hey all,

I bumped into someone who has some early (mid 1970 on some of the photos 
I've seen) PDP-11 bits - front panel and a handful of boards (the 
backplane, PSU, rack, peripherals etc. are long gone).


Ugh, update... apparently they gave everything to someone who does 
"steampunk stuff", so they're probably chopped into pieces by now :-(

Re: "industrial" PDP-11

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 5/15/19 9:29 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:

Here's the Industrial 11 version of the 11/05:
https://youtu.be/XV-7J5y1TQc?t=254


Thanks for finding that... yup, that appears to be the exact panel that he 
has (and /5 or /10, or in fact what the difference is between the two 
anyway, I'm not sure)


J.