[cctalk] Re: Ampex and the DG Compatible Market

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Not surprising given that they had a whole "division" devoted to memory 
products.  Core memory would have been reasonably close to their magnetic 
tape-expertise.  What is surprising is that they apparently sold a 
DG-compatible Nova-class CPU.  Something like the Digidyne "D.D. 112" (name 
found mentioned in one legal filing in the DG lawsuit).

I can't find anything specific about any of those vendors and their products.  
List appears in "Fairchild Joins Four Others: Firm Starts $30 Million Suit 
Against DG", Computerworld, Nov. 6 1978.

-Original Message-
From: Bill Degnan via cctalk  
Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 8:55 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: Bill Degnan 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Ampex and the DG Compatible Market

I can't at the moment, but I bet if one were to review a random assortment of 
CompuerWorld newspapers or industry magazine from the 70's (not Byte or a 
PC/retail) you'd see a lot of RAM vendor ads, Ampex included.  I have at least 
one Ampex core RAM board, I always thought they were among market share leaders 
of minicomputer RAM in the 70's.
Bill

On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 7:49 AM Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk < 
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Around 1979 I was given a full-size Ampex 4k DG-compatible core memory 
> board to try and interface to a MC6800 development system that I was 
> building. IIRC I got it basically working but abandoned the project as 
> the price of DRAMs fell and could populate a 16k RAM board within my 
> budget. It was for a ham radio repeater controller.
>
> Wow!  I had almost forgotten that, and it was difficult to drag it 
> from the little grey cells!
>
> cheers,
>
> Nigel
>
>
> On 2023-12-05 06:07, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote:
> > Although I knew that Ampex was a supplier of Multibus non-volatile 
> > RAM boards (MC-8080 and MCM-8086) - Memory Products Division - I 
> > didn't realize that they had competed for a while in the 
> > DG-compatible market alongside companies like Digidyne, Fairchild, 
> > Bytronix, and SCI Systems (according to court documents and the 
> > trade press).
> >
> >
> >
> > Can anyone shed light on what they offered and when?  And perhaps why?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > paul
> >
> --
> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the 
> origin of the open-source concept!
> Skype:  TILBURY2591
>
>

[cctalk] Ampex and the DG Compatible Market

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Although I knew that Ampex was a supplier of Multibus non-volatile RAM
boards (MC-8080 and MCM-8086) - Memory Products Division - I didn't realize
that they had competed for a while in the DG-compatible market alongside
companies like Digidyne, Fairchild, Bytronix, and SCI Systems (according to
court documents and the trade press).

 

Can anyone shed light on what they offered and when?  And perhaps why?

 

Thank you,

paul

[cctalk] DEC DF03-AA Modem Documentation

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

The DEC DF02 (300 Baud) and DF03 (300/1200 Baud) modems appear to be
singularly lacking in online documentation. In the case of the DF03 those
would be:

EK-ODF03-IP - DF03 Illustrated Parts Breakdown
EK-ODF03-PS - DF03 Modem Pocket Service Guide
EK-ODF03-UG - DF03 Modem Users Guide

Similarly for the DF02. (Note that the actual designations may use a zero
rather than a capital letter O in the 4th position; references are
inconsistent.)

Does anyone have access to these documents? The only, and only slightly,
useful technical documentation I've found are within the KC780 documentation
(EK-KC780-TM-007_Jul84.pdf), which illustrates the required settings of the
two pairs of DIP switches (or jumpers) on each of the two DF02/03 internal
modules but doesn't define any of those settings. The functionality of the
front panel push-button switches is not described either.

 

Leads, experience, etc. appreciated, thank you,

paul

[cctalk] Re: Seeking DEC BN25B-nn Optical Fiber Cable

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> From: pbir...@gmail.com 
> Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2022 2:50 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts

> Subject: Seeking DEC BN25B-nn Optical Fiber Cable
>
> This is a twin/duplex cable of varying length with 100/140 um "multimode"
cores and 
> SMA-906 connectors. SMA-906 connectors have the stepped center-pin,
compared to 
> the SMA-905 which is a simpler straight pin. It's used, for example, by
the LAN Bridge 100.
>
> For additional information see pages 169 through 335 (of 452) in 
>
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/comm/EK-CMIV7-RM-005_Communications_Options
_Minireference_Manual_Vol7_Aug88.pdf

I'm reliably informed that the cable actually has a light beige jacket (not
orange), so not so easy to spot in your tangled pile of cables :-{.

paul

[cctalk] Seeking DEC BN25B-nn Optical Fiber Cable

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

This is a twin/duplex cable of varying length with 100/140 um "multimode"
cores and SMA-906 connectors. SMA-906 connectors have the stepped
center-pin, compared to the SMA-905 which is a simpler straight pin. It's
used, for example, by the LAN Bridge 100.

 

For additional information see pages 169 through 335 (of 452) in
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/comm/EK-CMIV7-RM-005_Communications_Options
_Minireference_Manual_Vol7_Aug88.pdf

 

Probably it has an orange sheath so it would be somewhat distinctive in your
tangled pile of cables :-}.

 

Thank you for looking,

paul

RE: DEC KM11 (Was: DEC KL11)

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell 
> via cctalk
> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 4:12 AM
> To: Noel Chiappa; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: DEC KM11 (Was: DEC KL11)
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 6:38 PM Noel Chiappa via cctalk
>  wrote:
>
> > Huh? The KM11 doesn't plug into the UNIBUS (or QBUS); it's a MASSBUS device 
> > (a
> > solid-state storage device, actually), so it plugs into an RH11 or RH70 or
> > something like that. (I should work with the VAX MASSBUS controller, too.)
> > So the question 'is it 18 bit compatible' makes no sense.
>
> Were there 2 things called the KM11?
>
> The KM11 that I know is the maintenance unit, composed of a W130 and
> W131 plugged together. It goes into a specially-wired connector on
> some older PDP11s (e.g. the 11/45), controllers (e.g. RK11C) and
> periperals (e.g. RX01).
>
>  I have a pair of real DEC ones, and a clone I built to do tests on my
> PDP11/45 before I got the DEC ones.
>
> -tony

I think that we're all talking about the ML11-A, or at least are intending to 
... although the Subject line has been erroneous from the get-go ...

As Mark said:

PartTitleStatus
EK-0ML11-TD *ML11 Technical Description
EK-0ML11-TM *ML11 Technical Manual
EK-0ML11-UG *ML11 User's Guide

-
paul

RE: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
via cctalk
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 7:25 PM
> To: Al Kossow via cctalk
> Subject: Re: Tektronix 8002 microprocessor lab software
>
> On 7/19/21 4:20 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> > On 7/19/21 4:03 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>
> > It would be nice to save a complete system though, since most have been
tossed out since there is little
> > practical use for them now. 
>
> I've collected a LOT of in-circuit emulators and microprocessor
development systems over the decades, and
> I'm trying to decide right now what I'm going to do with them.

If there's an HP 64276 Microprogram Development Subsystem
(http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/hp/64000/brochures/5953-9279_Micropr
ogram_Development_Subsystem_Jun-1985.pdf) in there I'm interested in taking
it off your hands.  Or off the hands of anyone else who might have one :-}.

paul

RE: Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Well, utility depends on the objective.  One that immediately springs to mind 
in an era when "computing" had a dearth of practitioners would be to inform 
various audiences "what is involved".

The Dekker (1957) reference seems to be targeted at an audience interested in 
expressing mathematical statements in terms of the von Neumann model, generally 
building up to the idea of algorithms and their general reduction to a sequence 
of computational steps in that model of computation.  This would be a pre-ALGOL 
58 world and one can see the paper as a motivation for an ALGOL- (or FORTRAN-) 
like language.  (Caveat:  I've just skimmed a poor translation; more careful 
study required!)

The McCracken (1957) book seems to be targeted at an audience of future 
practitioners, giving a feel for how a hypothetical instruction set would be 
employed "in daily practice" to solve problems.  Perhaps answering the question 
of "would I like to become [or could I handle becoming] a 'programmer' " in an 
era when that was about to become a new specialty and career path.

A numerical analyst (e.g.) might find the Dekker text more accessible; an 
engineer might find the McCracken book more to their liking.

IMO, "in the world before 1960" both are "useful" without becoming a 
machine-specific instruction manual or cook-book.

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis 
via cctech
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:34 PM
To: Paul Birkel via cctech
Subject: Re: Early Programming Books

Aside from the very general Algol report and the Iverson book on APL, I
have to admit that most of my programming knowledge came out of
manufacturer's manuals, specific to a maker's systems.

The APL book was, at the time, pretty much useless for writing any sort
of serious code until you got hold of the manual for a particular system
that you were going to use.  Even the early McCracken books on FORTRAN
had a section in the rear that attempted to gloss over different
manufacturer's features and "extensions" (e.g. What does "B" punched in
column 1 of a FORTRAN statement card mean--and for what system?)

Lest anyone forget, that in the pre-1960 world, a lot more of production
code was written in the assembly code/autocoder of a particular system.
 Even the DEC "Introduction to Programming" dealt specifically with the
PDP-8 and was useless for the PDP-10.

ACM CALGO back then accepted algorithm submissions in FORTRAN or Algol,
but that's hardly an instructional text.

I guess the question boils down to 'In the world before 1960, how
*useful* was a general book on programming?"

--Chuck

RE: Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Google document translate gives a modestly useful result after OCRing the UT
original scan (www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/MCReps/CR1957-009.PDF).  Needs
significant further work for readability :-<.

Deeker, et al. appear to approach the topic from the perspective of
mathematics (that is, modestly abstractly) after introducing the standard
von Neumann 5-part model of a machine.  They keep that general description,
mapping mathematical expressions to general operations within that model.
TOC:

1. General Introduction to Automatic Calculators
2, The word
3. The number
4, The Command
5. Block diagrams
6. Subroutines I
7, An elaborate~ example
8. Subroutines II
9. Subroutines III
10. Speed
11. Scaling, Control and Flexibility
12. The Administrative Subroutine I
13. The Administrative Subroutine II
14. Super programs

McCracken approaches the topic with the same von Neumann model of a machine
but then proceeds from the perspective of a hypothetical "typical"
instruction set and a modestly specific architecture (e.g. signed ten-digit
storage).

AFAICS neither envisions representations for characters/text and the
processing thereof.

Both in 1957.  Something in the air :->?

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Koning
via cctech
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 5:06 PM
To: Norman Jaffe; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Early Programming Books

> On Jun 20, 2021, at 1:19 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctech
 wrote:
> 
> Basically, pre-1960, there couldn't be a 'general book on programming',
since every system was a unique environment - the only languages that could
even be remotely considered to be common were ALGOL 60 and FORTRAN II... and
they were 'extended' by every manufacturer to provide, at least, some form
of I/O beyond line printers and punch card readers / punches or to support
different character sets. 

True, unless you were to set out to write a general course on programming
that doesn't dig down to the level of any particular assembly language or
machine architecture.  From a quick look, I think the 1957 course by Dekker,
Dijkstra, and van Wijngaarden I mentioned in my previous note does just
that.  And that explains the title, "Programming automatic calculating
machines" (as opposed to the more common "Programming the xyzzy-42
machine").

paul

RE: Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Thank you for the references Paul.

Found it at: www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/MCReps/CR1957-009.PDF

Also found "Course on programming in ALGOL 60 (11th Edition)" (1970):

https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/MCReps/CR1970-013.PDF 

Now I need to translate them from Dutch.  Perhaps there already exists an
English translation of either?

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Koning
via cctech
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 4:58 PM
To: Norman Jaffe; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: General Discussion, On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Re: Early Programming Books

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Norman Jaffe via cctalk 
> Subject: Re: Early Programming Books
> Date: June 20, 2021 at 10:26:27 AM EDT
> To: "General Discussion, On-Topic Posts Only" 
> Reply-To: Norman Jaffe , "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts" 
> 
> I have two books on ALGOL 60 from 1962 - 
> A Guide to ALGOL Programming, Daniel D. McCracken 
> A Primer Of ALGOL 60 Programming, E.W. Dijkstra 

Dijkstra and Zonneveld wrote the first ALGOL compiler in 1961, so there
might be documents from that time, most likely in the CWI (Mathematical
Center) archives.

There's a course textbook on programming that is not machine specific, by
Dekker, Dijkstra and van Wijngaarden, "Course on programming automatic
calculating machines", November 1957.  It's quite extensive; the document is
110 pages long.

paul

RE: Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Thank you Michael, for both the pointer and the scan :-}.

 

From: Michael Mulhern [mailto:mich...@jongleur.co.uk] 
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:22 PM
To: Paul Birkel; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Early Programming Books

 

I recently scanned my copy of "Electronic Computers: Principles and 
Applications" by TE. Ivall (1956) and there is a chapter on "Programming 
Digital Computers".  It is more of a general overview, rather than any machine 
specifics.

 

https://archive.org/details/electronic-computers/page/183/mode/2up 

 

The book also covers analogue computers for any interested.

 

//m

RE: Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Sounds very promising, thank you for the tip.

-Original Message-
From: dave.g4...@gmail.com [mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 4:01 PM
To: 'Paul Birkel'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: Early Programming Books

Paul,

What about 

Approximations for Digital Computers
Cecil Hastings Jr., Jeanne T. Wayward, and James P. Wong Jr.

Whilst its about a specific problem its not machine specific. It was
originally published as papers in 1955 and as book later, but my copy
retains its 1955 copyright.

Dave

RE: Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Thanks Bill.  Presume that you mean “Giant Brains, or Machines that Think” 
(1949)?  Conveniently scanned and online:

 

https://monoskop.org/images/b/bc/Berkeley_Edmund_Callis_Giant_Brains_or_Machines_That_Think.pdf
 

 

From: Bill Degnan [mailto:billdeg...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 3:31 PM
To: Paul Birkel; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Early Programming Books

 

Paul,

I have been compiling a library of such. Ioks here, if you are traveling north 
swing by to review the books on hand.  The one that comes to mind is Thinking 
Machunrs by Berkeley but here on the patio at my parents house I dont know the 
date.  Harvard press put out some early computing books but they may be Mark 
1-specific.  Remind me and I can check when I get to the office.

Bill

Kennettclasic.com

RE: Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

TYDAC (TYpical Digital Automatic Computer) is very much an instruction set
of its time.

Memory is 2000 words of ten decimal digits and sign.
Words are either numbers or instructions.
I/O is punch cards, special typewriter, or a paper-tape reading device on
the typewriter.
Four magnetic tapes are assumed as auxiliary memory.
ALU includes an Accumulator (11 digits + sign) and Multiply-Quotient (10
digits + sign).
Instruction set includes floating-decimal add, multiply, and divide.
46 instructions (out of a possible 100) are defined.

-Original Message-
From: dave.g4...@gmail.com [mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:51 AM
To: 'Paul Birkel'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: Early Programming Books

Paul,

I assumed that was the case, but the inclusion of the Wilkes book confused
me. 
I think there really is a spectrum of books, so say pre-1955 all books
assumed the reader had little knowledge of programming. 
For example the MK1 guide I pointed you to is V2. Its rumoured that Turing
wrote V1 and no one could understand it but I think it more likely the
machine changed.
I also looked at the IBM 701 manuals and they too have some generic info at
the front. 
However I also wonder what the earliest books were like.

Dave
G4UGM

(You might want to e-mail Simon Lavington 
https://www.essex.ac.uk/people/lavin12900/simon-lavington
he has done a lot of research on early computing, and might know more.)





> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Birkel 
> Sent: 20 June 2021 13:40
> To: dave.g4...@gmail.com; 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'
> 
> Subject: RE: Early Programming Books
> 
> Dave;
> 
> I'm much more curious about programming books that were *not* machine
> specific.
> That is, about "general principles" of designing/preparing software for
> execution.
> 
> Of course, one needs a language; McCracken (1957) defines TYDAC.
> Much later (1968) Knuth defines MIX.
> 
> In between perhaps one could argue that ALGOL 58 qualifies as such a
> language-for-demonstration, but I don't believe that there were any books
> specifically about programming in ALGOL 58.  I presume that there were
> eventually such books for ALGOL 60.
> 
> Then there's FORTRAN, in which context I first encountered McCracken
> (1961:
> Guide to FORTRAN Programming).
> 
> Obviously my first example was EDSAC-centric.  And yours is specific to
the
> Manchester MK1.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: dave.g4...@gmail.com [mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 6:57 AM
> To: 'Paul Birkel'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'
> Subject: RE: Early Programming Books
> 
> Paul,
> What about machine specific manuals, so for example the Manchester MK1
> programming manual, the second edition of which is archived here:-
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20090526192456/http://www.computer50.org
> /kgill/m
> ark1/progman.html
> 
> In fact I expect that first book refers specifically to EDSAC, so is in
effect
> machine specific. There must have been similar manuals for other machines?
> 
> I know there is a Ferranti Pegasus Programming manual, the copy I have is
> dated 1962 but as the last Pegasus was produced in 1959 there must have
> been earlier editions.
> 
> Dave
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctech  On Behalf Of Paul Birkel
> > via cctech
> > Sent: 20 June 2021 09:44
> > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts' 
> > Subject: Early Programming Books
> >
> > I know of two early computer (in the stored program sense) programming
> > books.
> >
> > 1951: Preparation of Programs for an Electronic Digital Computer
> (Wilkes, Wheeler, & Gill)
> > 1957: Digital Computer Programming (McCracken)
> >
> > What others were published prior to the McCracken text?
> >
> > Excluded are lecture compendia and symposia proceedings, such as:
> >
> > 1946: Moore School Lectures
> > 1947: Proceedings of a Symposium on Large-Scale Digital
> > Calculating
> Machinery
> > 1951: Proceedings of a Second Symposium on Large-Scale Digital
> Calculating Machinery
> > 1953: Faster Than Thought, A Symposium On Digital Computing
> > Machines
> >
> > These were principally about designs for, and experience with, new
> hardware.
> >
> > I'm curious about texts specifically focused on the act of programming.
> > Were there others prior to McCracken?
> >
> > paul
> 

RE: Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

When it comes to McCracken I feel a bit like Homer Simpson "Donuts ... is there 
anything they can't do?" 
He certainly made a career out of writing programming language instruction 
texts.

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Norman Jaffe 
via cctech
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:26 AM
To: General Discussion, On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Re: Early Programming Books

I have two books on ALGOL 60 from 1962 - 
A Guide to ALGOL Programming, Daniel D. McCracken 
A Primer Of ALGOL 60 Programming, E.W. Dijkstra 

For APL, there is this from 1962 - 
A Programming Language, Kenneth E. Iverson 

However, I also have a reference from 1960 - 
LISP I Programmer's Manual, J. McCarthy et al. 

From: "General Discussion, On-Topic Posts Only"  
To: "Paul Birkel" , "General Discussion, On-Topic Posts 
Only" , "dave g4ugm"  
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 5:57:08 AM 
Subject: Re: Early Programming Books 

On 2021-06-20 1:39 p.m., Paul Birkel via cctech wrote: 
> Dave; 
> 
> I'm much more curious about programming books that were *not* machine 
> specific. 
> That is, about "general principles" of designing/preparing software for 
> execution. 

Not sure if it's what you are looking for, but if you haven't, check out 
"Classic Operating Systems" by Per Brinch Hansen. 

> 
> Of course, one needs a language; McCracken (1957) defines TYDAC. 
> Much later (1968) Knuth defines MIX. 
> 
> In between perhaps one could argue that ALGOL 58 qualifies as such a 
> language-for-demonstration, but I don't believe that there were any books 
> specifically about programming in ALGOL 58. I presume that there were 
> eventually such books for ALGOL 60. 

Pretty sure I own one, by Dijkstra. Will get details later if you are 
interested. 

--Toby 

> 
> Then there's FORTRAN, in which context I first encountered McCracken (1961: 
> Guide to FORTRAN Programming). 
> 
> Obviously my first example was EDSAC-centric. And yours is specific to the 
> Manchester MK1. 
> 
> -----Original Message- 
> From: dave.g4...@gmail.com [mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 6:57 AM 
> To: 'Paul Birkel'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts' 
> Subject: RE: Early Programming Books 
> 
> Paul, 
> What about machine specific manuals, so for example the Manchester MK1 
> programming manual, the second edition of which is archived here:- 
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20090526192456/http://www.computer50.org/kgill/m 
> ark1/progman.html 
> 
> In fact I expect that first book refers specifically to EDSAC, so is in 
> effect machine specific. There must have been similar manuals for other 
> machines? 
> 
> I know there is a Ferranti Pegasus Programming manual, the copy I have is 
> dated 1962 but as the last Pegasus was produced in 1959 there must have been 
> earlier editions. 
> 
> Dave 
> 
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: cctech  On Behalf Of Paul Birkel via 
>> cctech 
>> Sent: 20 June 2021 09:44 
>> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'  
>> Subject: Early Programming Books 
>> 
>> I know of two early computer (in the stored program sense) programming 
>> books. 
>> 
>> 1951: Preparation of Programs for an Electronic Digital Computer 
> (Wilkes, Wheeler, & Gill) 
>> 1957: Digital Computer Programming (McCracken) 
>> 
>> What others were published prior to the McCracken text? 
>> 
>> Excluded are lecture compendia and symposia proceedings, such as: 
>> 
>> 1946: Moore School Lectures 
>> 1947: Proceedings of a Symposium on Large-Scale Digital Calculating 
> Machinery 
>> 1951: Proceedings of a Second Symposium on Large-Scale Digital 
> Calculating Machinery 
>> 1953: Faster Than Thought, A Symposium On Digital Computing Machines 
>> 
>> These were principally about designs for, and experience with, new 
> hardware. 
>> 
>> I'm curious about texts specifically focused on the act of programming. 
>> Were there others prior to McCracken? 
>> 
>> paul 
> 
> 

RE: Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Dave;

I'm much more curious about programming books that were *not* machine
specific.
That is, about "general principles" of designing/preparing software for
execution.

Of course, one needs a language; McCracken (1957) defines TYDAC.
Much later (1968) Knuth defines MIX.

In between perhaps one could argue that ALGOL 58 qualifies as such a
language-for-demonstration, but I don't believe that there were any books
specifically about programming in ALGOL 58.  I presume that there were
eventually such books for ALGOL 60.

Then there's FORTRAN, in which context I first encountered McCracken (1961:
Guide to FORTRAN Programming).

Obviously my first example was EDSAC-centric.  And yours is specific to the
Manchester MK1.

-Original Message-
From: dave.g4...@gmail.com [mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 6:57 AM
To: 'Paul Birkel'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'
Subject: RE: Early Programming Books

Paul,
What about machine specific manuals, so for example the Manchester MK1
programming manual, the second edition of which is archived here:-

https://web.archive.org/web/20090526192456/http://www.computer50.org/kgill/m
ark1/progman.html 

In fact I expect that first book refers specifically to EDSAC, so is in
effect machine specific. There must have been similar manuals for other
machines?

I know there is a Ferranti Pegasus Programming manual, the copy I have is
dated 1962 but as the last Pegasus was produced in 1959 there must have been
earlier editions.

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctech  On Behalf Of Paul Birkel via
> cctech
> Sent: 20 June 2021 09:44
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts' 
> Subject: Early Programming Books
> 
> I know of two early computer (in the stored program sense) programming
> books.
> 
> 1951: Preparation of Programs for an Electronic Digital Computer
(Wilkes, Wheeler, & Gill)
> 1957: Digital Computer Programming (McCracken)
> 
> What others were published prior to the McCracken text?
> 
> Excluded are lecture compendia and symposia proceedings, such as:
> 
> 1946: Moore School Lectures
> 1947: Proceedings of a Symposium on Large-Scale Digital Calculating
Machinery
> 1951: Proceedings of a Second Symposium on Large-Scale Digital
Calculating Machinery
> 1953: Faster Than Thought, A Symposium On Digital Computing Machines
> 
> These were principally about designs for, and experience with, new
hardware.
> 
> I'm curious about texts specifically focused on the act of programming.
> Were there others prior to McCracken?
> 
> paul

Early Programming Books

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

I know of two early computer (in the stored program sense) programming
books.

 

1951: Preparation of Programs for an Electronic Digital Computer
(Wilkes, Wheeler, & Gill)

1957: Digital Computer Programming (McCracken)

 

What others were published prior to the McCracken text?

 

Excluded are lecture compendia and symposia proceedings, such as:

 

1946: Moore School Lectures

1947: Proceedings of a Symposium on Large-Scale Digital Calculating
Machinery

1951: Proceedings of a Second Symposium on Large-Scale Digital
Calculating Machinery

1953: Faster Than Thought, A Symposium On Digital Computing Machines

 

These were principally about designs for, and experience with, new hardware.

 

I'm curious about texts specifically focused on the act of programming.
Were there others prior to McCracken?

 

paul

 

RE: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Heading back to the OP topic, lubrication and reduction in insertion force 
(given presumptively clean contacts), I've read good things about NyoGel 760G 
Dielectric Synthetic Grease.  "Used for lubrication and protection of 
electrical contacts."

Safety sheet: 
https://www.nyelubricants.com/datasheet/SDS_US_English_NYOGEL+760G.pdf 

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Hunter via 
cctalk
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 11:13 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication

What is the best type of lubricant for Omnibus backplanes?

It can be a struggle to insert and remove PDP-8/e boards into the Omnibus.
There is a risk of damage to the brittle bakelite connector housings on the
Omnibus PCB.
Traditional contact sprays should work but have two problems:

1) they remain wet and over time will attract and retain dust
2) the solvent and lubricant *may* weaken or attack the bakelite

There are some PTFE (Teflon) based lubricant sprays which create a dry
film. Would this type of spray work?

Any suggestions on what I could use that reduces the strain on the Omnibus
and the PCBs during insertion/removal without creating new problems?

Thanks and best regards
Tom Hunter

RE: QBUS/UNIBUS card handles

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vincent 
> Slyngstad via cctalk
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 1:16 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: QBUS/UNIBUS card handles
>
> On 5/10/2021 9:25 AM, Fritz Mueller via cctalk wrote:
> > 
> >> On May 10, 2021, at 7:14 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk 
> >>  wrote:
> >> I would assume it would be trivial to do an injection-moulded run of these 
> >> handles...
> > 
> > They might also be ideal for silicone mold / resin cast, for smaller/home 
> > production runs?
>
> Resin casting will work, but it's messy, etc.  I haven't had any trouble 
> with the toughness of 3D printed handles.  Honestly, I often attach them 
> with a pair of small zip-ties instead of rivets, and they are still 
> plenty strong.  The usual caveats about 3D printing apply -- just don't 
> print it so that the layers will be torn apart when you pull on it!

Douglas Electronics used to stock these as Miscellaneous items alongside their 
DEC compatible PCBs.

http://www.douglas.com/index.php/off-the-shelf-solutions/bread-boards/de-11-dec-compatible.html

However I don't see them listed anymore; nor am I able to find them using the 
search function .
Possibly they simply sold out of their existing stock, and that was that.

You could inquire on the off chance that they just aren't listing any 
remainders.

paul

RE: General Instruments Capacitive Keyboard Encoder

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard.p850...@gmail.com] 
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 8:12 AM Paul Birkel  wrote:
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard.p850...@gmail.com]
> > >
> > > > On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 10:33 AM Paul Birkel via cctalk 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The GI encoder is a DIP-40 labeled as "321239007  M2406-054-02  GI 8233 
> > > > CBU
> > > > TAIWAN".  I seek technical documentation for this IC.
> > >
> > > You might take a look at the manuals here :
> > >
> > > http://cpu-ns32k.net/Whitechapel.html
> > >
> > > I am pretty sure there's a keyboard techincal description in 'binder
> > > 1' and a reverse-engineered schematic in 'binder 2'. While it's not
> > > quite the same IC, it's related and the power pins are in the right
> > > place :-)
> > >
> > > Alas there is no real description of what that IC does or how to talk
> > > to it from the 8039. It is designed to sit on the 8039 bus, it takes
> > > in the multiplexed address/data bus, ALE, rd/ and wr/
> >
> > The straight-thru wiring on ~RD and ~WR alongside ALE with no address 
> > decoding is IMO 
> > rather odd.  I wonder how that design actually works (either assumes that 
> > it is the only writable 
> > device present, or actually latches 8 bits of address and shadows some 
> > valid ROM address) 
> > and then what gets written to the encoder for what purpos(es). 
>
> Remember that the 8039 has separate program and data memory spaces.

"Sokath, his eyes uncovered."  Thank you Tony.  Your notation observations both 
sound very reasonable to me.

paul

RE: General Instruments Capacitive Keyboard Encoder

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard.p850...@gmail.com] 
>
> > On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 10:33 AM Paul Birkel via cctalk 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > I'm currently reverse-engineering an AMPEX keyboard that uses capacitive key
> > switches.  The basic design employs a GI encoder coupled to an 8039 MCU
> > supplemented by a 2K EPROM and 74LS373 (used to latch the ROM address set
> > from Port A while Port A is then used to read data back from the ROM).  The
> > 8039 MCU drives a bit-banged serial interface.  ...
> >
> > The GI encoder is a DIP-40 labeled as "321239007  M2406-054-02  GI 8233 CBU
> > TAIWAN".  I seek technical documentation for this IC.
>
> You might take a look at the manuals here :
>
> http://cpu-ns32k.net/Whitechapel.html
>
> I am pretty sure there's a keyboard techincal description in 'binder
> 1' and a reverse-engineered schematic in 'binder 2'. While it's not
> quite the same IC, it's related and the power pins are in the right
> place :-)
>
> Alas there is no real description of what that IC does or how to talk
> to it from the 8039. It is designed to sit on the 8039 bus, it takes
> in the multiplexed address/data bus, ALE, rd/ and wr/

Bingo.  That's basically my circuit here (pin for pin) with minor differences 
in RC values and a much more interesting serial interface (and a _four_ finger 
salute no less!  N-S-T-V  Take that DOS ...), although mine supports a 
buzzer/speaker.

The principal inconsistency is that pin 25 is marked "CS" and left open in the 
"binder 1" schematic (page 132 of 134), and then doesn't appear in your 
hand-drawn schematic (page 7 of 24).  In my circuit it's wired to the 8039 
~PSEN.

The straight-thru wiring on ~RD and ~WR alongside ALE with no address decoding 
is IMO rather odd.  I wonder how that design actually works (either assumes 
that it is the only writable device present, or actually latches 8 bits of 
address and shadows some valid ROM address) and then what gets written to the 
encoder for what purpos(es). Disassembly of the EPROM should answer those 
questions.  My objective here is to replace the bit-banged interface with a 
parallel interface emulating one for an Intel MDS-230.

Two questions on notation.:

1. In the "binder 1" schematic pin 6 is marked as Ry and is pulled up via 
resistor to +5v.  On your hand-drawn schematic the corresponding pin appears to 
be labeled "PVR".  What might be the function of this pin?

2. In the "binder 1" schematic pin 15 is marked as Cm and is attached to 
an RC circuit.  On your hand-drawn schematic the corresponding pin appears to 
be labeled "RC".  C = 100 nF.  What might be the function of this pin?  I'm 
guessing ~(Power On Reset) rather than as the basis for an on-chip oscillator 
as seen in the AY-3-4592 pin 36 "RC" given the relatively high capacitance 
value.

Thank you for these new breadcrumbs.

paul

RE: General Instruments Capacitive Keyboard Encoder

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow 
> via cctalk
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2021 9:48 AM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: General Instruments Capacitive Keyboard Encoder
>
> On 5/4/21 2:33 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote:
> > I'm currently reverse-engineering an AMPEX keyboard that uses capacitive key
> > switches. 
>
> did all of the square foil and foam pads disintegrate in it?

It uses individual sprung metal leaves, with the exception of the caps-lock key 
which has a central LED and around that an annular square foil/pad that is in 
fine shape.  It's all nicely constructed; the case even includes a spray-on 
metallized surface that is connected via a sprung contact to the cable shield 
and the switch-body retaining plate.

-

General Instruments Capacitive Keyboard Encoder

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

I'm currently reverse-engineering an AMPEX keyboard that uses capacitive key
switches.  The basic design employs a GI encoder coupled to an 8039 MCU
supplemented by a 2K EPROM and 74LS373 (used to latch the ROM address set
from Port A while Port A is then used to read data back from the ROM).  The
8039 MCU drives a bit-banged serial interface.  The PCB identifies itself as
AMPEX on the coper foil, although the key switch mounting-plate actually has
a "General Instruments Quality Accepted" sticker.  The EPROM is labeled
"3512663-03 Copyright 1983 AMPEX CORP".

 

The GI encoder is a DIP-40 labeled as "321239007  M2406-054-02  GI 8233 CBU
TAIWAN".  I seek technical documentation for this IC.

 

It evidently is not a relabeled simple variant of the documented AY-3-4592
as it does not multiplex the input side of the matrix (sense lines), there
are fewer output data lines, and the power pins are non-standard (Vcc = pin
37; GND = pin 16).

 

Reverse engineering identifies this M2406-054-02 as supporting an 8 column
by 16 row (3 unused in my case) matrix plus 8 output data lines. I can
identify analogs of several pins on the AY-3-4592.  My interpretation of the
pin uses is that the necessary key-scanning behavior is generated using the
8039 ALE line (pin 11) as the encoder clock input.

 

Proper documentation for this IC would be nice to come by!  Pointers and
suggestions appreciated.

 

Thank you,

paul

 

 

RE: DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fritz
Mueller via cctalk
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 2:27 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO
>
>
> > On Apr 24, 2021, at 7:02 PM, Josh Dersch  wrote:
> > If you have notes on re-creating the harness, let me know.
>
> Hi Josh,
>
> A few pointers -- I think I left some of these in a comment on one of your
fb posts, 
> but will repeat here in case others may find it useful:

Thank you for not hiding your experience on Facebook!

> * Sticking with the original wire color code also makes it a lot easier
not to get lost 
> and later to double check and troubleshoot your work.  I used MTW
("Machine Tool Wire"), 
> which is available from wirebarn.com at 14 and 18 AWG in most of the
necessary colors 
> and in 25 and 100 foot lengths (I think the 18 AWG purple I had to find
separately on eBay, 
> but I have lots of leftover of that and will gladly send you some.)
>
>   --FritzM.

And thank you for the pointer to Wirebarn.  Much better stock than at Home
Depot :->.

https://www.wirebarn.com/14-AWG-MTW-MACHINE-TOOL-HOOKUP-WIRE_c_23.html
https://www.wirebarn.com/18-AWG-MTW-MACHINE-TOOL-HOOKUP-WIRE_c_25.html

Those assortments are great.  Also the single color in various lengths:

https://www.wirebarn.com/14-Gage-Machine-Tool-Wire-MTW_c_111.html
https://www.wirebarn.com/18-Gage-Machine-Tool-Wire-MTW_c_84.html 

-
paul

RE: DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell 
> via cctalk
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2021 11:56 PM
> To: Noel Chiappa; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO
>
> > PS: I wonder how many people here have -11/45's? ISTR one other, but they 
> > aren't
> > common.
>
> I do.
>
> -tony

Do #2; not yet fully restored. Soon(ish) ...

Has five red bodge wires that appear to be the same as on Josh's photo.

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AJkwqfjZ3cw06W8=CC8708A7CAEAF7A6=CC8708A7CAEAF7A6%21597691=CC8708A7CAEAF7A6%21597950=OneUp
 

paul

RE: DEC BA11-K KY11-L mounting brackets -- how?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Nope.  That's what mine looks like.  His has some weird spot-welded bracket,
presumably an earlier design.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Henk
Gooijen via cctalk
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 3:40 AM
To: Fritz Mueller; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: DEC BA11-K KY11-L mounting brackets -- how?

Is this what you mean Fritz?
www.pdp-11.nl/pdp11-34a/pdp11-34general.html
at the bottom.


Van: Fritz Mueller via cctalk
Verzonden: zondag 18 april 2021 23:00
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts
Onderwerp: DEC BA11-K KY11-L mounting brackets -- how?

Hi all,

I'm reassembling an PDP-11/34 in a BA11-K chassis right now, and am a little
puzzled by the front mounting brackets (the ones that hold a KY11-L of
either sort on the bottom, and a half trim-panel on the top).  In
particular, on the bottom half, the available place for screws to go to
attach the bracket to the chassis is nearly completely blinded by an
overhanging tab.

The engineering drawings I've seen are unfortunately not very clear on
this...  Anybody have an 11/34 in a BA11-K and care to take a peek and tell
me how the hardware here is properly configured? (Hex head instead of DEC's
ubiquitous Phillips truss, to allow tightening from the side?  Machine screw
from back, and a nut on the front?  Other?)

cheers,
  --FritzM.

RE: DEC BA11-K KY11-L mounting brackets -- how?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Apparently DEC redid their design; my entire assembly is quite different and
"it just works".  I imagine that you aren't the first to be flummoxed by
their original design.

In my6 case there is no bump-out sub-assembly spot-welded to the plate,
instead there is a separate wide-flat U bracket where the ends attach
above/below to the plate (which is threaded) and the middle attaches forward
to the console (which is threaded).  The wide-flat U bracket is first
attached to the flat-plate (chassis in any position).  The flat-plate has a
wide notch aligned with the attached wide-flat U bracket center to allow the
console to be screwed in from the back (chassis necessarily extended).  The
3-U filler panel is attached with Velcro to the flat plate; no ball-breaking
required :->.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fritz
Mueller via cctalk
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 1:45 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: Noel Chiappa
Subject: Re: DEC BA11-K KY11-L mounting brackets -- how?


> On Apr 18, 2021, at 7:40 PM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> There's an intermediate 10" or so high adapter piece (one either side, of
course) mounted to the KY11-L... on the bottom, a single 1" or so machine
screw (#8, I think) goes through the vertical tab on the side at the front
of the BA11, to a tapped hole in the adapter piece.

Thanks for the details, Noel!

Pictures of my brackets should be viewable at
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wni3mDAQHozK9Ho27

The interesting/confusing bit for me is the bottom part...  In the second
picture you can see that my brackets just have a punched oval hole at the
bottom, and not a "tapped hole" per your description above.  The tabs on the
chassis to which these brackets mount all have #10 press fit threaded
bushings.

The bit at the top, with the plastic pieces (called out on the parts lists
as "latch, molding") and countersunk #10 screws is clear, and looks like
what you describe.

...
cheers,
  --FritzM.

RE: punching paper tape

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christian
Corti via cctalk
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 3:52 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: punching paper tape

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021, Paul Koning wrote:
> Some machines used 7-track paper tape that is narrower than 8 track 
> tape.  I thought Whirlwind was one of those.

Yes, the LGP-30 uses 7-tack paper tape as well. Normal 8 track paper tape 
is 25.4mm, 7 track tape 22.2mm. The latter is absolutely unobtanium... (I 
think we have one or two spools).

Christian

-
FYI, from a recent GK thread:

I contacted https://www.adorablesupply.com to get clarification about their
pin feed paper since sometimes people call 9.5" paper 8.5" if it has tear
off 
edges.  Turns out the guy who responded knew what a Teletype machine 
was. I mentioned Teletype restoration as a generic reference and his 
response was "I go back a long way with the Teletype 28's"

They also can supply tape in both 11/16" and 1".  I suspect they could 
also do 7/8".  Wonder if they could do gummed back WU style tape?

-

Sovier/Russian 132-pin PGA Ceramic IC Packaging

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

In item https://www.ebay.com/itm/265045229011 I am curious as to whether the
gold islands on the top-side are functional test-points giving electrical
access to the underside pins?  Was there a clip designed to attach to the
top-side of these chips for use in circuit analysis?  Was this design unique
to Russian manufacture (I don't recall ever seeing this design previously)?

 

paul

RE: securing 15V pwr monitor board in H765 supply

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Fritz:  You are referring to the 5411086 board as seen in the lower picture at: 
http://gunkies.org/wiki/DEC_Power_Line_Monitor ?

Mina has screws on all four corners to secure it to corresponding tabs in the 
metal frame for the power control circuitry.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fritz Mueller 
via cctalk
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2021 4:38 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: DEC: securing 15V pwr monitor board in H765 supply

Hi all,

I’m reassembling an H765 supply after cleaning and repairs.  It has the "newer" 
style 15V and power monitoring board (the one with the edge finger connector, 
same as used in H7420 supplies.)

The board slides into a slot in a sub-chassis that also houses the power 
control circuitry, which small chassis later slides into, and is secured to, 
the larger H7420 chassis.

I cannot for the life of me figure out what, if anything, secures the power 
monitor board to the small chassis! There don’t appear to be any conveniently 
placed fixtures to which to screw down the board, and I haven’t been able to 
inform myself by pondering the various engineering diagrams, IPB’s, nor the 
pile of remaining fastening hardware...

When I test-fit everything in the larger chassis, the unsecured board is held 
captive only by the grace of the surrounding wiring harness and by some small 
clearance issues with the large cap on the board.  This doesn't seem 
satisfactory; as part of something like an 11/34 on tilt slides, it would seem 
to bang around a bit in there if left loose like that.

Am I missing something?  Puzzled...

 --FritzM.

RE: APE - ALTAIR peripheripheral emulator

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

According to http://home.comcast.net/~forbin376/AboutUs.htm -- Frank Barberis.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jwest--- via 
cctalk
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 4:00 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: APE - ALTAIR peripheripheral emulator

Anyone know who did/does the Altair peripheral emulator (not to be confused 
with the other APE, for Atari)?

Originator give me a ring on email or via discord please 

J

RE: Seeking: TMS32010 Assembly Language Programmer's Guide (1983)

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Al;  Thank you.  For all four!

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via 
cctalk
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2021 12:12 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Seeking: TMS32010 Assembly Language Programmer's Guide (1983)

On 9/26/20 4:51 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote:

> I seek a copy (hard or electronic) of the "TMS32010 Assembly Language
> Programmer's Guide" (1983).

http://bitsavers.org/components/ti/TMS320xx/1983_TMS32010_Assembly_Language_Programmers_Guide.pdf

I will be uploading a few other documents later today.

Seeking: TMS32010 Assembly Language Programmer's Guide (1983)

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

All;

 

I seek a copy (hard or electronic) of the "TMS32010 Assembly Language
Programmer's Guide" (1983).

 

Paperback : 194 pages

ISBN-10 : 0904047423

ISBN-13 : 978-0904047424

Publisher : Texas Instruments (December 1, 1983)

Item Weight : 1.11 pounds

Language: : English

 

The "TMS32010 User's Guide" (1985) is readily available.  Not so the (more
important!) Programmer's Guide :-{.

 

I recently obtained a TMS 32010 Evaluation Module (EVM).  So I'm motivated
to "learn something" about the details of programming the TMS 32010.  My
first hands-on foray into the (early) world of DSP :-}.

 

I've searched all of the nooks-n-crannies of the web to no avail.

All help in locating/obtaining a copy of this document will be greatly
appreciated.

 

I do have a copy of "Digital Signal Processing Using TMS32010" (Douglas L.
Jones) on order as a stop-gap measure.

 

Thank you,

paul

RE: IBM 3270 compatible terminal connected to Hercules IBM mainframe emulator.

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Mattis:  Is that SDLC implementation generally available?  I see some 
interesting discussion of the possibility on Stack Exchange (Uriel Katz), but 
no obvious reference to a repository. 

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind 
via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 7:51 AM
To: Connor Krukosky; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: IBM 3270 compatible terminal connected to Hercules IBM mainframe 
emulator.

 The SDLC implementation on the STM32 seems to work quite well 

/Mattis

CLCC68 Covers

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

I intend to restore a pair of boards that used Intel Ceramic Leadless Chip
Carrier (CLCC) parts.  Unfortunately the socket covers were tossed when the
boards were scavenged for their chips.  The sockets and attached clips are
themselves just fine.  eBay item # 252830664338 is an example of this style
of 68-pin socket.  Item # 362702811275 is an example IC in CLCC form.

 

If anyone has a par (or even just one) of these covers lurking in their
odds-n-ends collection somewhere I'm interested in putting them back into
service.  Thank you for taking a look!

 

paul

 

RE: [HECnet] VAX/VMS 3.0 Distribution Available for Download

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

According to the Release Notes it works on the 11/750 and 11/730 as well.
See: AA-D015D-TE
https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_decvaxvms3leaseNotesV3.0May82_5458871/mode/2up

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ray Jewhurst 
via cctalk
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 8:34 AM
To: hec...@update.uu.se
Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; simh; John Dundas
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/VMS 3.0 Distribution Available for Download

>From 1982 I see. I know that this will run on the 780/785 but what about
the other VAX-11s or the 8600? I am purely a simulator and have never used
the real thing and I am not sure what years the models in question were
released. Sorry if my questions seem ignorant.

Ray

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 8:08 AM Supratim Sanyal  wrote:

> John Dundas' distribution of VAX/VMS version 3.0 (April 1982) can now be
> downloaded from my Dropbox.
>
> The SYSTEM password is MANAGER.
>
> Note: Dropbox does not force you to create an account, if you look
> carefully you will see a "Continue to view" link at the bottom of that
> pop-up.
>
> Here's what it boots into:
>
>
>VAX/VMS Version V3.0 26-APR-1982 16:21
>
>
> PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-  HH:MM) 21-MAR-2020 11:58
> %JBC-I-NEWQUEUE, new queue file created
> %OPCOM, 21-MAR-2020 11:58:34.51, logfile initialized by operator OPA0
>  logfile is SYS$MANAGER:OPERATOR.LOG
>Login quotas - Interactive limit=64, Current interactive value=0
>SYSTEM   job terminated at 21-MAR-2020 11:58:39.91
>
> Username: SYSTEM
> Password:
>  Welcome to VAX/VMS version V3.0
> $
> $
>
> Grab it from https://bit.ly/vaxvms30
>
> Regards,
> Supratim
>
> --
> Supratim Sanyal, W1XMT
> 39.19151 N, 77.23432 W
> QCOCAL::SANYAL via HECnet
>
>

Microcap12 Spice simulator

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Forwarding from another list because of its general interest:

.
A heads up that the guy who was responsible for the full professional grade
Spice simulator Microcap (latest version 12) has retired, and made his
software downloadable free of charge. It was $4,500 per seat before.

Download page here http://www.spectrum-soft.com/download/download.shtm 
.

paul

RE: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger via 
cctalk
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:40 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap

...
> There is a stack of IO interface boards, including HSTs, for the HP 2100/1000 
> series there.
> 
> Lower-right stack in this pic, 7 boards, boards have one red and one grey 
> handle:
>   https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n08AAOSwjY5dg5Kd/s-l1600.jpg
> 
> "HS Terminal" is discernible on one of them, and the one on top looks to be 
> an HS Terminal as well.
> Can't be certain about the others but they have the same size IO connector, 
> they may all be HSTs.
> 
> HSTs are the basic RS232 & current loop, async serial-line interface boards, 
> 12531D, used for the console and such in the 2100/1000 series,
> going back to the early machines of the series.
> 
> (HS is 'High-Speed', but that's relative to the late-60s, billed for up to 
> 2400bps, but it is possible to operate them at higher speeds).
> 
> I'd buy one for, say 60$, if someone picks up the bunch and wants to flog one.
>  
> 

I would be in that same camp, assuming one of these would also work in a
2112B ("M Series") machine.

JRJ

-

They are readily available, individually, on eBay.  See "HP12531".
There are currently two listed at reasonable prices, plus reasonable shipping.

For reference, this:  http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?catfile=236

You probably want the HP 12531D.  Both of the current eBay listings are the "D".

I believe that the HP 12531C is what is visible on 
http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=111 

paul

RE: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: Guy Dunphy [mailto:gu...@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 6:07 AM
To: Paul Birkel; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap

At 02:29 AM 25/09/2019 -0400, you wrote:

>I contacted the seller and was able to work out a very reasonable deal to
>purchase a selected subset for my future needs.

...
How sensibly were they padded for shipping? It had seemed like the seller
refused
to treat them carefully.



Mine were packed sensibly. He knew that I intended to put them into service.

I've had sellers do pretty silly things to even single PCBs despite my
asking otherwise.
No problems in this case.  So I'm a satisfied customer.

paul

RE: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Dunphy
via cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 1:57 AM
To: Electronics Plus; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: HP vintage boards being sold as scrap

...
This is going to be as frustrating as that other guy selling a huge box of
HP cards for gold, for $600.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/60-lbs-vintage-1970s-HP-interface-boards-gold-yello
w-fingers-for-scrap-recovery/383039137321
Huh, didn't sell yet, what a surprise. And he's dropped the price a whole
$50. Must have agonized over that.

Guy

-

I contacted the seller and was able to work out a very reasonable deal to
purchase a selected subset for my future needs.

You, or others, might consider doing the same if you have a specific
interest.  (Rather than a general gripe :-}.)

paul

DEC Scalps

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/312738923353

 

Sez: 

 

"Older DEC PDP console face-plates DEC PDP 11/55 rare, PDP 8-straight 8
'glass'rare,

PDP 8/L, PDP 8/I, DEC TU58 status/diag. Panel . All in goodshape. $1000 for
the lot or $200 apiece. "

 

-

RE: Current MANX location

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa via cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 10:46 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Current MANX location

...
  KE11-B Field Maintenance Print Set
  http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,9361

Both listed as not online, but they are: the KE11-A is on Bitsavers,
and the KE11-B I also just found (IIRC, on one of the collections they
list as indexed).

Noel

-

Please share a pointer to the location of that document, Noel.  Thank you.

paul

RE: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa via cctalk
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 12:45 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

> From: Paul Birkel

> But which bus?  There are three ...

So I'm clearly not very awake this morning. I can only think of two major
quad-width DEC standard slots - SPC (UNIBUS) and dual QBUS. What's the third
- PMI? (MUD is hex, as is Fastbus.) Or OMNIBUS, if we're not restricted to
PDP-11's?

Noel

-

OMNIBUS, yes.  Use case: http://tronola.com/html/ram_for_pdp-8e.html

-

RE: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of emanuel 
stiebler via cctech
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 4:23 AM
To: systems_glitch; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

On 2019-08-15 02:13, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:
> Connor Krukosky and I have been working on laying out a new quad-height DEC
> protoboard, which can also be sheared down into a dual-height board. Full
> announce on the VC Forums:
> 
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?71177-GW-DEC-1-A-New-Quad-Height-DEC-Prototyping-Board=582892#post582892

Was always hoping somebody would do something like that, but with the
bus interface already on it ...

-

But which bus?  There are three ...

-

RE: DEC VT20 boot device

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>From: Jay Jaeger [mailto:cu...@charter.net] 
>Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2019 11:02 PM
>To: Paul Birkel; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
>Subject: Re: DEC VT20 boot device
>
>On 8/10/2019 1:56 PM, Paul Birkel via cctech wrote:
>> The DEC VT20 terminal apparently included a PDP-11/05 with a direct mapped
>> character display and was intended for text editing and typesetting.  It
>> seems to have been followed by the VT21, and then VT71/VT72, all three based
>> on an LSI-11 (KD11-F).  There's a real lack of documentation about these
>> online, although the VT72 does have a print set.
>> 
>> Apparently the VT20 used the M792-YK as its bootstrap; the Field Guide is
>> silent regarding the boot device and M792 documentation stops earlier in the
>> series of variants.
>> ...
>> So . is the boot device in these systems the remote host via the serial
>> line?  What protocol would that have been?  Something native to Typeset-11
>> and DECset-11?
>> 
>> paul 
>
>I wonder if, maybe, it used the same protocol as the GT40, which also
>had a boot-over-serial line capability.
>
>JRJ

That's a promising lead!  The GT40/42 User's Guide (EK-GT40-0P-002), Section 
5.1 Communications Bootstrap/Read-Only Memory (ROM) describes a 256 word (GT40) 
and 512 word (GT42) ROM, however it appears that the bootstrap loader portion 
is intended to occupy 63 words which fits the M792 capacity (on the GT40 just 
the absolute addresses 15700-15776 (base 8)).

Section 5.1.1 Bootstrap Loader describes the packed-and-serialized 6-bit "byte" 
stream, including some nice diagrams.  Section 5.1.2 Character Encoding 
includes an illustrated example starting from a pictorialized 8-level paper 
tape.  Appendix D has an annotated (and unexpurgated) program listing of the 
full GT40 ROM, including the loader and Figure D-1 Communications Bootstrap 
Loader Flow Diagram.  Program comments suggest that a PDP-10 was expected as 
the host for a GT40.  I imagine that the same expectation would have applied 
for the earlier VT20?

Appendix E is similar, but for the "scrolling ROM - GT42" which appears to be a 
VT05 emulation  It includes more conventional loaders as well: RF11, RK11, 
RC11, RP11, TC11, TM11, and paper tape.  According to the program comments, 
"the fearsome power of the 11" is brought to bear :->.

Both loaders are credited to Jack Burness.

If I understand the listings correctly then in the smaller VT20 ROM, 
presumptively based on the same code, one would be expected to successfully 
fall off the end of the ROM into freshly loaded code that signals back to the 
host that a successful load has taken place.  In the GT40 with the larger ROM 
that acknowledgement ("SENDIT") is part of the ROM itself.

paul

DEC VT20 boot device

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

The DEC VT20 terminal apparently included a PDP-11/05 with a direct mapped
character display and was intended for text editing and typesetting.  It
seems to have been followed by the VT21, and then VT71/VT72, all three based
on an LSI-11 (KD11-F).  There's a real lack of documentation about these
online, although the VT72 does have a print set.

 

Apparently the VT20 used the M792-YK as its bootstrap; the Field Guide is
silent regarding the boot device and M792 documentation stops earlier in the
series of variants.

 

According to the VT72 print set, it used the MRV11-VC (M9942-YC; described
in the Field Guide as a "bootstrap/diagnostic module") for its bootstrap but
is also silent regarding the boot device.  In interestingly, the Field Guide
also describes a MRV11-AA (M7942-TB) as a "M7942 with VT52 emulator, VT71
bootstrap".

 

For async. communications the VT20 used a DL11-B (M7800 (EIA)). the VT72 a
DLV11-F (M8028).

 

Looking in a DEC "Options and Modules" listing I see VT20 bundles including
Typeset-11 and DECset-11, and it appears that the VT20 could be configured
with two displays & serial lines in a single 11/05.

 

So . is the boot device in these systems the remote host via the serial
line?  What protocol would that have been?  Something native to Typeset-11
and DECset-11?

 

paul 

RE: Sci-fi and science fiction [was Re: Scanning question (Is destruction of old tech docs a moral crime?)]

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: U'll Be King of the Stars [mailto:ullbek...@andrewnesbit.org] 
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 3:36 AM
To: Paul Birkel; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Sci-fi and science fiction [was Re: Scanning question (Is destruction 
of old tech docs a moral crime?)]

On 21/07/2019 06:48, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote:
> I'm reminded a bit of "A Canticle for Leibowitz"!

Thank you for the reference.

...

Please could you (Paul or anybody else on this list) recommend a forum 
or mailing list for fans of sci-fi or science fiction?   I'm sure there 
are many but I've no idea where to start.  I would be very grateful. 
Thank you!!

Andrew
-- 

Science Fiction and Fantasy Listserv 

https://listserv.loc.gov/cgi-bin/wa?A2=SF-LIT;869da1f3.1809

paul

RE: Scanning question (Is destruction of old tech docs a moral crime?)

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Dunphy
via cctalk
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2019 11:00 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: Scanning question (Is destruction of old tech docs a moral
crime?)

I'm posting a private email (anonymized) and my reply because it's a 
significant issue.


>{Note private reply}
>
>> When the scanning process involves destruction of the original work
>> ... But if it's a rare document, or even maybe so rare that it's the
>> last one, then destroying it now just to produce a digital copy
>> inadequate to the aims of cultural preservation - that's a crime.
>> One right up there with genocide
>
>While I agree that making a non-optimal digital copy in such cases, is,
>well, non-optimal (because for _many uses_, the basic information is still
>available, wheras for many important documents, not even that remains),
>there's no way it's "right up there with genocide" - and if you really
>think so, you definitely need to examine your sense of scale, because it's
>seriously defective.
>
>   [name removed]

I agree that when historical documents are lost without even any kind of
digital copy made, that's the worst.

However I was pretty careful to preceded that quoted paragraph with
conditionals.

Specifically referring to a case where someone has a rare work, that isn't
in danger of falling apart, and there's no good reason why they couldn't 
wait till better scanning methods became available, and they destroy it to
produce a crappy quality digital image. Thus ensuring there can never be
a high quality digital copy and the rare physical original is forever gone.
That's criminal. A high level crime against humankind. Where it's done in
bulk to entire collections, it _is_ the cultural equivalent of genocide.

I don't care if you disagree.
Could it be that you are upset because you do this (destroy docs), and don't
like to be accused of being a criminal?
I am sure that the future WON'T take your position on this. They are going
to be sooo pissed, that so many old works were destroyed and all they have
left is crappy quality horrible-looking two-tone scans.

This is _already_ the case with many electronics instrument manuals. There
are
so many people who think that the physical manuscript is unimportant, and
nothing
matters other than posting a minimally readable smallest-possible-file
online,
with the least effort and so it's OK to destroy the original for
convenience.

Private reply noted. Still going to repost on the list, as from anon.

Guy

-

If I may summarize/generalize, Guy, I think that your point is that there
are Technical Artifacts and there are Cultural Artifacts -- and the two sets
overlap to some degree.  Where the overlap lies is subject to great debate,
IMO.

Most of us probably wouldn't destroy a Cultural Artifact (e.g., Taliban
destruction of Buddha of Bamiyan statue) but many might destroy a Technical
Artifact in the belief that its overt information content defines its value,
and that one that value has been captured digitally the Technical Artifact
effectively lives on in that form.  The corpus is merely that ...

At what point do you believe that a "mere" Technical Artifact becomes a
Cultural one -- where the latter presumptively comes accompanied by a
Requirement to Preserve?

Being the "last known survivor" of a particular piece of hardcopy seems both
an inadequate basis for determination in general, and operationally it's a
pretty weak method since "last known" becomes dependent on a Registry of
sorts (and likely requires good provenance to preclude forgeries, else
expect a flood of ACTUAL TELETYPE REPORT OF APOLLO MOON LANDING ... :->).

In your perspective is Artistic Merit an important consideration in
determining Cultural value, and thus Requirement to Preserve?  How does one
judge that?

As much as I like hardcopy Technical Artifacts for various reasons, I have
difficulty with the concept that all hardcopy, even the very last known
original, is worth (in the ROI sense, to include proper archiving and
maintenance) preserving.

I'm reminded a bit of "A Canticle for Leibowitz"!

paul

RE: DEC Purchase Specifications, particularly 23-000A9-01

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mark J.
Blair via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 4:10 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: DEC Purchase Specifications, particularly 23-000A9-01

.

If 70ns access time parts are sufficient for the M9312's PROMs, then I may
design an emulation with a 5V compatible 28 series EEPROM. If they need to
be faster, then I may need to do something fancier. Or maybe I'll find the
original PROMs that I need and then get distracted and wander off. It may
well be easier to design a replacement for the entire M9312 card than trying
to emulate the individual 512x4 bipolar PROMs, but since when do I do
anything the easy way? I sure wouldn't be playing with 40 year old computers
if I was concerned with practicality and ease of use!

-

>From some notes (origin misplaced!) you'll need a typical access time of
40ns from address, or 20ns from /CS:


DEC boot PROMs on Unibus cards are small bipolar fusible-link PROMs

The A9 types are 82S131 (or MMI6306, 75S171, 27S13, 93448, etc)
16-pin DIL 512-words by 4-bit wide.
Pin spacing is 0.1", pin column pitch is 0.3".
Access times are typically 40ns from address, or 20ns from /CS.
 
   |U|
A6 | 116 | Vcc
A5 | 215 | A7
A4 | 314 | A8
A3 | 413 | /CS
A0 | 512 | D0
A1 | 611 | D1
A2 | 710 | D2
   Vss | 8 9 | D3
   |_|

The F1 types are 82S137 (or TI24S41, MMI6353, 74S573, 27S33, 93453, etc)
18-pin DIL 1024 words x 4-bit wide.
Pin spacing is 0.1", pin column pitch is 0.3".
Access times are typically 40ns from address, or 20ns from /CS.
 
   |U|
A6 | 118 | Vcc
A5 | 217 | A7
A4 | 316 | A8
A3 | 415 | A9
A0 | 514 | D0
A1 | 613 | D1
A2 | 712 | D2
  /CS1 | 811 | D3
   Vss | 910 | /CS2
   |_|

Note for all types: although the types listed are read-compatible,
each brand/type may use a very different programming algorithm.

Also note that these have tri-state outputs; other types (eg 27S13A)
have open-collector outputs.


And a potentially useful utility from Eric Smith:
https://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/m9312/

I have a vague recollection that someone kludged an 11/84 UBA (M8191) in the
manner that you describe but I can't find the reference at the moment.
Perhaps the memory of someone else will be jogged ...

-

RE: PDP 11/15

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Koning via cctech
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:59 PM
> To: Bob Smith; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Cc: Al Kossow
> Subject: Re: PDP 11/15
>
>...
> 11/15 as a designation for an LSI based machine doesn't ring any bells at
all.
>
>   paul

PDT-11/150?  It is based on an LSI-11 and if you squint at the designation a
bit ...

-

RE: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Liam Proven 
>via cctalk
>Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 7:06 AM
>To: Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>Subject: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
>
>Found on Hackernews but by our very own Seth Morabito...
>
>«
>This is what makes a PDP-11/35 or PDP-11/40 tick. It turns out to be
>441 ICs. Impressive!
>»
>
>https://loomcom.com/blog/0044_what_makes_a_pdp_11_35_tick.html
>
>-- 
>Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven

I wonder what the unlisted 20 ICs are for, and what they are?

List totals 221; claim is 441 ...

-
paul

RE: HP9816 PAL16L8

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis 
>via cctalk
>Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:19 AM
>To: Tony Duell via cctalk
>Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
>
>On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
>
>> You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by :
>> 
>> For each combination of inputs :
>>Read the outputs
>>  Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa)
>>  Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have
>> changed then there's a sequential function on that input
>>  Check the next input
>>   Check the next combination of inputs
>
>For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at
>vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and
>documented the process.

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?330-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-13 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?329-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-12-The-Trantor-T130B-memory-PAL
 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?328-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-11 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?327-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-10 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?326-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-9 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?325-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-8 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?321-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-7) 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?320-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-6) 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?319-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-5) 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?318-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-4) 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?316-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-3) 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?315-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-2) 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?314-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-1) 

A nice read.  When does the article/book get self-published :->?

-
paul

RE: HP 1000 A900 ("Magic") Questions

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Glen Slick 
>via cctech
>Sent: Friday, May 10, 2019 1:34 PM
>To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
>Subject: Re: HP 1000 A900 ("Magic") Questions
>
>On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 4:14 AM Paul Birkel via cctech
> wrote:
>>
>> Aficionados;
>>
>> I'm interested in acquiring an HP1000 A900, in any form-factor.
>> (http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=594)



>Another hard part is the 1 memory frontplane. Maybe it wouldn't be
>too hard to build an equivalent PCB if the proper connectors can be
>acquired. They are 3-row 96-pin connectors. Maybe common DIN 41612
>connectors would work, I haven't looked at that closely.

I can confirm that DIN 41612 connectors should work fine, along with a 4-layer 
PCB.  HP doesn't seem to have gone "odd-ball" in that particular design choice. 
 I'd need to get someone to buzz out the connections to ensure that they are 
1:1 all the way across before designing a PCB to fit.



>At a minimum you need either a 12005 serial card or a 12040 serial mux
>for a console interface. Both of those are fairly common, although you
>might pay more for cables than the boards if you don't build cables
>yourself. There are several firmware versions for the 12040 mux. If
>you have a D mux you need need VCP firmware 4020 or higher on the
>12203A cache controller.

Cables, and those specialized HP connectors, are always a pain.  I would need 
to make up my own, given my budget, I expect.  I do have one or two possible 
spares from a 21MX I/O environment that probably could be repurposed assuming 
that the edge-connectors match up ... which they may not.  We'll see.  Thanks 
for the notes about the firmware version issue.

>As you also said you need a 12009 HPIB card for a storage interface.
>Running HPDrive on a PC to emulate disk and tape drives works well if
>you don't have any real HPIB disk and tape drives. I managed to pick
>up a 12016 SCSI card. Those are rare and expensive.

I'll bet!  Yes, I was assuming that HPDrive would be the way to proceed; it's 
good to get confirmation on that point.  Also the availability of a suitably 
configured RTE.

paul

HP 1000 A900 ("Magic") Questions

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Aficionados;

 

I'm interested in acquiring an HP1000 A900, in any form-factor.
(http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=594)

 

Basic need would be a chassis/backplane/PS and minimal set of
CPU/memory/HPIB-controller/terminal-IO PCA, however I'd be interested in
simply acquiring a PCA-set and I'll work the chassis/backplane/PS
separately.  Even single PCAs would give me a helpful push forwards.

 

And I need to stick to my hobby (beer") budget.

 

I'm located in Maryland, USA, and pretty sure that the cost of overseas
shipping would be ghastly for a chassis.  But maybe not as bad for the tower
configuration as for the rack-mount.

 

If I understand correctly, the CPU consists of:

 

12201A A900 Sequencer Card

12202A A900 Data Path Card

12203A A900 Cache Controller

12204A A900 Memory Controller

12220A 768KB RAM  (Or I presume 12103D 1MB, 12221A 3 MB, or 12221B 8 MB.)

 

I imagine that I'll need to synthesize my own OTT "frontplane" for the
memory.

 

12009A HP-IB Controller 
12040D Asynchronous Multiplexer interface board

 

Thank you for your insights, and opportunities (I hope),

 

paul

(offlist at pbir...@gmail.com)

 

RE: Adding floppy drives to my PDP-11?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Glen Slick 
>via cctalk
>Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 2:48 AM
>To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>Subject: Re: Adding floppy drives to my PDP-11?
>
>On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 3:07 PM Charles via cctalk
> wrote:
>>
>> What about smaller drives (RX50? RX33?)... can those be interfaced to the
>> 11/23+ Qbus?
>
>Pick up a common as dirt M7555 RQDX3. If you don't have a BA23 with
>the built in distribution board for the M7555 RQDX3, then pick up an
>M9058 distribution board to break out the signals from the M7555
>RQDX3.
>
>For example, this one which is incorrectly listed as an M9056:
>https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-DEC-Digital-Equipment-M9056-5016673-01B1-RQDX-Signal-Dist-Card-Board/153396701812

For more information and roll-your-own instructions, see: 
http://avitech.com.au/?page_id=645

Malcolm may still have PCBs available; shipping from Australia.

-

Control Console, but not PDP-10

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

The PDP-10 Control Console sold for $3,650.00.  Amazing!

Now consider a DSKY.  Currently at $27,500.00.  Auction estimate: $60,000+

Great provenance!  “The DSKY that saved Apollo 14.”

https://www.rrauction.com/bidtracker_detail.cfm?IN=5222

-

Control Console, but not PDP-10

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

The PDP-10 Control Console sold for $3,650.00.  Amazing!



Now consider a DSKY.  Currently at $27,500.00.  Auction estimate: $60,000+



Great provenance!  “The DSKY that saved Apollo 14.”



https://www.rrauction.com/bidtracker_detail.cfm?IN=5222



“Apollo 14 LM Simulator Computer Display and Keyboard (DSKY) from MIT
Instrumentation Laboratory”



Historically significant Apollo Guidance Computer Display and Keyboard
(DSKY) unit from the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory, used by Don Eyles and
Sam Drake to verify the software patch needed to avoid an abort during the
Apollo 14 lunar landing sequence. The data entry and display device measures
8″ x 8″ x 6.5″, and has 19 keys and an electroluminescent digital
display. The back of the unit retains its metal NASA parts tag which reads,
“Apollo G & N System, AGC DSKY Assy, Part No. 2003985-041, Serial No. RAY
26, NAS 9-497, Designed by M.I.T. Instrumentation Lab, Mfg. by Raytheon Co.,
" with yellow inspection stamps above. In fine condition.

Accompanied by a detailed letter of provenance from the present owner, who
was employed at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory to design, build, and
maintain the CM and LM cockpit simulators. He retained the DSKY in 1978 when
the LM cockpit simulator was dismantled and discarded.

The DSKY was the astronaut's interface to the Apollo Guidance Computer
developed by MIT, and was critical to every aspect of the mission. Each
program had a two-digit code and commands were entered as two-digit numbers
in a verb-noun sequence. The device permitted the astronauts to collect and
provide flight information necessary for the precise landings on the moon.
It was the DSKY that provided the astronauts with critical burn times for
engine firings, course corrections, trajectories, and other key calculations
vital in getting a crew to and from the moon. The DSKY also reported the
program alarm moments before the LM touched down on the lunar surface to
land.

During Apollo 14, a loose ball of solder floating inside the abort switch of
the LM Antares caused an intermittent short circuit, threatening to
accidentally activate the switch and rocket the module back into orbit
during its landing sequence. In order to prevent that scenario, MIT computer
programmer Don Eyles, a developer of the AGC's source code, was asked to
hack his own software to find a workaround. This represented the most
dramatic moment for MIT's programmers throughout the entire Apollo program,
as they had just three to four hours to work out a fix, test it, and relay
it to the astronauts in time for Powered Descent Initiation (PDI). Eyles
accomplished his task in just two hours, developing a 26-command sequence to
be entered into the DSKY that reprogrammed the AGC to ignore the abort
button. The codes were relayed to Alan Shepard and Edgar Mitchell with ten
minutes to spare, and the LM Antares successfully touched down on the lunar
surface at 09:18:11 UTC on February 5, 1971. As the MIT DSKY used to verify
the code that saved the Apollo 14 mission, this is an exceptionally
important piece of space history.



-

RE: Craigslist: RP05 drive cable in Indiana

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

"Audio consoles" hah!  That's a DEC MASSBUS cable.  Heavy ...

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jason T via 
cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 3:23 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Craigslist: RP05 drive cable in Indiana

No affiliation with the seller, just a strange item to come across
randomly.  Digital BC06S cable, which is mentioned in the manual for the
RP05 and possibly others:

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/ele/d/multi-pin-digital-cable/6835150645.html

The ad shows updated two days ago so they likely still have it.

J

RE: PDP-11 Memory

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill 
Gunshannon via cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 1:49 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: PDP-11 Memory

...

M8067-LB
M8067-LF
M8067-LJ  - Same problem.  I can find no documentation
 for any -L boards and these don't even resemble
 the pictures I find.

...
Anybody got any pointers to help me configure some of this stuff?

Bill

-

M8067-L ==> EK-MSV0P-UG-001 MSV11-P User Guide.pdf - Bitsavers

-
paul

RE: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fritz Mueller 
>via cctalk
>Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 1:43 PM
>To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>Subject: Re: KD11-E/EA microcode flow diagrams
>
>...  I could really use a “USIC”... :-)

I believe that's called a "UniBone", sortta: 
http://retrocmp.com/projects/unibone

-
paul

Microcode, which is a no-go for modern designs

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Carlo Pisani 
>via cctalk
>Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2019 5:35 PM
>To: ben; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>Subject: Re: Motorola M88K books & user manuals (looking for)
>
>> I was never a fan of RISC architecture as does not fit the standard high
>> level language model. Everybody wants a 1 pass compiler, thus the RISC
>> model. If you are doing your own RISC model, you might consider a model
>> that supports Effective addressing better since we have got the point
>> where fetching the data is taking longer than processing it.
>
>yup. I am a 68k programmer so I know what you mean.
>the 68k is more comfortable to be programmed in assembly, and even the
>EA modes (especially in the 68020 and CPU32) help a lot.
>
>unfortunately, the 68K is very complex to be designed, and the first
>68020 used microcode, which is a no-go for modern designs.
>
>...

I'm curious as to why you make this claim that microcode is no-go in "modern" 
designs.  Could you please elaborate on this point?  I don't see why the 
alternative random control logic would be a better proposition.

Thanks,
paul

RE: 8-Update

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>I have an .slt for the PDP-8/e lever
>Rod

Please publish/share?

paul

RE: Hayes Transet Manual and Software

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jason T via 
>cctalk
>Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 12:44 AM
>To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>Subject: Hayes Transet Manual and Software
>
>One of my few remaining Holy Grail items, I got a Hayes Transet 1000
>this week.  My three-part Hayes stack is now complete.
>
>...
>
>-j

Excellent!  In your Hayes explorations have you come across any technical 
documentation for the Hayes Micromodem-100, the successor to the 80-103A?  All 
that I've been able to uncover is a marketing brochure.  Would like to uncover 
more ...

Thank you,
paul

RE: 8-Update

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

>-Original Message-
>-From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod G8DGR 
>via cctalk
>-Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2018 2:36 AM
>-To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>-Subject: 8-Update
>
>Sheesh!! 
>Well what a response. 
>This stems from my (so far) successful major over haul of my PDP-8/e.
>I found one failed 7474 and one failed 8881 – replaced and now working.
>I think I have the rim loader toggled in and will attempt to send a paper tape 
>image from Hyperterm
>Strangely I do have at least three genuine complete 4k memory sets.
>
>The eightstoration will continue.
>
>However I began to think would it be possible to create a close copy of an  
>8/e out of  modern parts.
>As you all know I make front panels so that’s not a problem. 
>I did manage to copy my (distorted) bezel in resin.
>A friend has been able to 3D print toggle switch leavers that fit and work.
>...

Could you (or your fried) tell us more about "A friend has been able to 3D 
print toggle switch leavers that fit and work"?
I have need to do the same :-<.  And I don't have a 3D printer, either.

paul

RE: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Perhaps Cypress FM1808 (32Kx8).  Obsolete, but available on eBay.  SOP for a 
bit of extra challenge!

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rod G8DGR via 
cctech
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 4:22 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

I have an idea to produce an MM-8  clone using RAM that acts like core when 
turned off.
Can anybody suggest a chip that will do this?

Rod Smallwood


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

RE: Opening RL02 disk pack

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa via cctalk
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 10:24 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Opening RL02 disk pack

> From>: Christian Corti

> I thought that the DEC packs would be similar but no, DEC had to
invent
> something different...

Huh? I thought RL0x drives use an IBM 5440 type pack (as used on the IBM
System/3 - I used one of those at my first computer job, they'd just gotten
it in); DEC may have used their own format (and servo track stuff), I don't
know much about the 5440.

Noel


Quoted from "DISK DRIVE CONTROL: THE EARLY YEARS" (Abramovitch & Franklin)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3206778_A_brief_history_of_disk_dri
ve_control 

"DEC came out with the 125 TPI RL01 disk drive in 1978,which was the first
mass
produced full sectored (embedded) servo drive on the market."

Sounds to me like it was different, but in a good way?

paul

RE: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of allison via 
cctech
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM
To: cct...@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 
disk install)

On 12/06/2018 07:28 AM, Liam Proven via cctech wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell  wrote:
>> I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it was
>> made by Sun.
>>
>> I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the
>> 'first' model.
> Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally unfamiliar with
> the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum
> back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the
> world of academic Unix usage. :-)
>
> Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was
> a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's
> not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no
> windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation.
>
> But as a single-user Unix machine, yes, it unquestionably qualifies,
> and I need to redefine my terms and my thinking a little...

During my days at DEC in the later 80s the definition of workstation was 1MIPS 
processing power,
1M pixels, Desktop or desk side (fairly compact).  Graphics and processing 
power were high
and lots of ram and sufficient local disk as well.  Most of the machines were 
RISC based,
Sun (sparc), MIPS, or ARM powered.

Allsion
-

And cost no more than a "megapenny" ;->.

See the CMU "3M" definition:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M_computer

-

Operation Codes

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

https://www.asc.ohio-state.edu/dunlap.3/humor/instruction.set.html

 

ERS Erase Read-only Storage

FPT  Fire Photon Torpedoes

GCAR   Get Correct Answer Regardless

XIO   Execute Invalid Op code

 

Among others!

 

-

RE: DEC backplanes on eBay

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Superstar; see my post two weeks ago.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa via cctalk
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2018 11:22 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: DEC backplanes on eBay

Anyone recognize these:
  
  https://www.ebay.com/itm/183446161463

They've got a fair amount of wire-wrap, so I'd think 70's-80's.

Noel

RE: VT240, VT241 are graphics? what does it mean?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

And (of course!):  TR-95_Fundamentals_Of_ReGIS_Jul79.pdf

-Original Message-
From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbir...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 12:14 PM
To: Carlo Pisani; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: VT240, VT241 are graphics? what does it mean?

See Bitsavers for:

EK-VT125-GI-001_VT125_ReGIS_Primer_May82.pdf
AA-K336A-TK_GIGI_ReGIS_Handbook_Jun81.pdf

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Carlo Pisani 
via cctalk
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 11:02 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: VT240, VT241 are graphics? what does it mean?

hi
so, in a description of DEC terminals, I read "VT240 and VT241 are
graphics terminals, supporting Digital’s ReGIS graphics and Tektronix
vector graphics"

what does it mean? which kind of graphics? Can they draw lines?

I am googling for "Digital’s ReGIS graphics" and "Tektronix vector
graphics", but I have only found dead links =(

RE: VT240, VT241 are graphics? what does it mean?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

See Bitsavers for:

EK-VT125-GI-001_VT125_ReGIS_Primer_May82.pdf
AA-K336A-TK_GIGI_ReGIS_Handbook_Jun81.pdf

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Carlo Pisani 
via cctalk
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 11:02 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: VT240, VT241 are graphics? what does it mean?

hi
so, in a description of DEC terminals, I read "VT240 and VT241 are
graphics terminals, supporting Digital’s ReGIS graphics and Tektronix
vector graphics"

what does it mean? which kind of graphics? Can they draw lines?

I am googling for "Digital’s ReGIS graphics" and "Tektronix vector
graphics", but I have only found dead links =(

RE: DEC lk201 keyboard for DEC Terminal vt220

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Some useful information: 
http://www.netbsd.org/docs/Hardware/Machines/DEC/lk201.html 

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Carlo Pisani 
via cctalk
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 10:15 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: DEC lk201 keyboard for DEC Terminal vt220

hi
about DEC lk201 for DEC Terminal vt220,
I am looking for information about
- the pinout of the connector (it should be 4 pins, sort of serial)
- the protocol used
- key keymap

thanks in advance

VAX 11/785 "Superstar" Backplanes

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

On the 'bay: 183405165416 and 183405165414  "Scrap / Gold Recovery"

 

Six total.  One wonders what the scrappers did with the rest, and where they
came from given that the location is Goffstown, New Hampshire.

 

paul

RE: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk.

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Which length band did you find worked best as a replacement?

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind 
via cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 2:50 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; Al Kossow
Subject: Dilog DQ604 RL01 / RL02 emulation on ST506/ST412 disk.

I unearthed some old TU58 tapes that luckily was readable (after carefully
replacing the tension band)

-

RE: Centronics 101A manuals?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Al:  That's a very nice set that you've uploaded.  Again, thanks :->.

-Original Message-
From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbir...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 3:21 PM
To: Al Kossow; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Centronics 101A manuals?

Thank you Al!

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via 
cctech
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 10:09 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Centronics 101A manuals?

Yes, I have them scanned, I'll try to get them uploaded to bitsavers this 
morning

On 8/12/18 3:51 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote:
> Speaking of BIG printers, does anyone have the maintenance manual for the 
> Centronics 101A impact printer?

RE: HP scope mailing list

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Try: hp_agilent_equipm...@yahoogroups.com

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles 
Dickman via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 8:56 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: HP scope mailing list

Is there an HP scope and instrument mailing list?

I have an HP 181A storage scope that I would like to get working again.

-chuck

RE: Centronics 101A manuals?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Thank you Al!

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via 
cctech
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 10:09 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Centronics 101A manuals?

Yes, I have them scanned, I'll try to get them uploaded to bitsavers this 
morning

On 8/12/18 3:51 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote:
> Speaking of BIG printers, does anyone have the maintenance manual for the 
> Centronics 101A impact printer?

Centronics 101A manuals?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Speaking of BIG printers, does anyone have the maintenance manual for the 
Centronics 101A impact printer?

All that I've found thus far is marketing literature.  Not even an owner's 
manual.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind 
via cctalk
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 5:08 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Oliverti Te300 teleprinter manuals?

Does anyone have any type of manuals for the Olivetti Te300 teleprinters?

Preferebly maintenance manuals or similar.

https://vads.ac.uk/diad/bres/pub/COID/231/32.jpg

All the Tech You Can Take

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

A recent visit to the Living Computers: Museum + Labs:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/a-seattle-museums-tech-bonan
za-from-classic-video-games-to-virtual-reality/2018/07/25/16cc1f8c-8a8e-11e8
-a345-a1bf7847b375_story.html

 

--

 

RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbir...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:36 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45

...

>From the ABLE marketing literature:

CACHE/ 45 (CACHE BUFFER MEMORY) INSTALLS IN: PDP-11/45, -11/50 and -11/55
CAPACITY: 2048 byte (1 K word).
ENHANCEMENT FACTOR: Run time reductions to 50% (100% speed improvement) are
achievable.
CACHE PARITY: Automatically goes off-line in event of any data error.
RANGE SELECTION: User may optimize hit ratio by upper/lower limit switch
settings.
SPECIAL FEATURE: Cache/ 45 can be enabled via software or console switches.

Presumably that's what Mattis has in-hand.

-

https://books.google.com/books?id=hYD3sny2NzEC=PA23=PA23=ABLE+Comp
uter+technology+ACT+DEC+%22CACHE/45%22=bl=b15iACJbMd=oLMrJMn2
qEFmxiKSMIhpLF5qYnk=en=X=2ahUKEwjcyvzi87TcAhVOw1kKHdc5A8kQ6AEwAHoE
CAIQAQ#v=onepage=ABLE%20Computer%20technology%20ACT%20DEC%20%22CACHE%2F45%
22=false 

Computerworld, Page 23, July 26, 1976

ACT Has PDP-11/45 Buffer
SANTA ANA, Calif. - Able Computer Technology (ACT) has a 2K-byte cache
buffer for use with the Digital Equipment Corp. POP-11/45.
The Cache/45 is contained on a single printed circuit board that plugs into
the
system's chassis.
Buffer control is provided over every core memory address location on the
Unibus. A switch within the memory buffer permits a choice of either on-line
or off-line operation, the company said.
The buffer costs $7 ,000. ACT is at I 538-E Chestnut St., Santa Ana, Calif.
92705.

(Somewhat strange use of the expressions "on-line" and "off-line" operation,
IMO.)

I presume that the reason for "single printed circuit board" is that only a
single "normal" slot is occupied.

paul

RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind 
via cctalk
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:36 AM
To: Noel Chiappa; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45

Here is how it is connected: https://i.imgur.com/4TEZoiO.jpg

The sandwiched dual boards are i sitting in 27 / 26 AB. The board in 27AB
was empty (quick glance), while the board in 26AB has a few TTL chips on it.
 Slot 26AB is the Unibus A slot, Slot 27 AB should be a terminator on
Unibus B. (maybe there were terminating resistors on the second board.
Didn't check in detail) Slot 28AB is Unibus B and goes to the DD11-C and
the RK11-D backplanes.

The hex ABLE/ ACT board sits in slot 21 which is the memory controller
board for the MS11.

It very much looks like it is a Cache board. But why have some one written
"Not used" (Används ej) on it? I'll hope I find the documentation for it!

/Mattis

-

I wonder whether this CACHE/45 can coexist with MS11 memory on the Fastbus 
itself, or is designed to _replace_ MS11 memory by accelerating access to 
Unibus-based memory?  The available product literature doesn't clarify either 
way.

paul

RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa via cctalk
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 2:07 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45

- MS11-B Engineering Drawings

About all we're missing are the MS11-A/C data board engineering drawings.
(The control board is in the MS11-B prints.)

-

Note that the schematics clearly show that the memory controller has direct
access to both the Fastbus and Unibus B, and thus slot 21 (and 16) is wired
for the purpose.

So why have OTT cables to both slots 26 /27 AB?

Perhaps the narrow cable goes to slot 27 to pick up some additional Unibus B
signals, and the wider cable to slot 26 to pick up a larger set of Unibus A
signals equivalent to those to which it already has direct access for Unibus
B).. 

Is this the way that those OTT cables are wired Mattis?

>From the ABLE marketing literature:

CACHE/ 45 (CACHE BUFFER MEMORY) INSTALLS IN: PDP-11/45, -11/50 and -11/55
CAPACITY: 2048 byte (1 K word).
ENHANCEMENT FACTOR: Run time reductions to 50% (100% speed improvement) are
achievable.
CACHE PARITY: Automatically goes off-line in event of any data error.
RANGE SELECTION: User may optimize hit ratio by upper/lower limit switch
settings.
SPECIAL FEATURE: Cache/ 45 can be enabled via software or console switches.

Presumably that's what Mattis has in-hand.

-

RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

ACT is parked on the upper-right under the handle.
Several variants of "10003" are marked near the left handle.
And it's copyrighted 1976.

ACT = ABLE Computer Technology.

Their first product was PN 10001 (copyright 1976), the A.C.T. Univerter; see 
"Able_Univerter_Nov81.pdf" on Bitsavers.
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/able/Able_Univerter_Nov81.pdf 

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Smith via 
cctalk
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2018 4:44 PM
To: Mattis Lind; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45

any identification number sn front or back? can tell from just that shot.


On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 2:37 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk
 wrote:
> This board was sitting in slot 21 of the backplane in a 11/45
>
> https://i.imgur.com/ZYWZQCo.jpg
>
> What kind of board is this?
>
> It has 26 bipolar RAMS. Fairchild 93415 1kbit SRAM.
>
> The manufacturer might be ACT whatever that is.
>
> My guess is that it is some kind of cache board? It is connected to both
> unibuses in the machine.
>
> Better ideas? Documentation?
>
> /Mattis

RE: DEC FPJ11-AA

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa via cctalk
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 8:12 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: DEC FPJ11-AA

> From: Paul Birkel

> Same thing in this case. 

The CPU looks to see a PMI signal that is generated by the KTJ11 - no signal
-> 11/83.

My impression is that except for the speed of the J11 (and the crystal), and
whether or not it came with the FPJ11, all four of the M8190 board variants
are otherwise identical. Whether it's a /73, /83 or /84 depends entirely on
whether it has/sees PMI memory and the KTJ11-B UNIBUS converter (and the
correct backplane, for the latter, of course).

> The 11/84 is an 11/83 extended by a Unibus interface to support legacy
> peripherals.

It has a special backplane which is mostly UNIBUS slots, with a few QBUS/PMI
slots on the front, and a 'special' slot in the middle into which the UNIBUS
adapter goes.

Noel

-
Indeed.  As you say WRT the question asked, "same difference" excepting the
Xtal/speed rating.  The backplanes, power supplies, enclosures are of course
radically different as they serve different commercial objectives.  And as
you say, the -AE ought to work in either environment.

paul

RE: DEC FPJ11-AA

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Same thing in this case.  The 11/84 is an 11/83 extended by a Unibus
interface to support legacy peripherals.

-Original Message-
From: W2HX [mailto:w...@w2hx.com] 
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 7:36 AM
To: Paul Birkel; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: DEC FPJ11-AA

what is the story about this board? Listing says 11/84 but this website says
8190-AE is for 11/83?

http://web.frainresearch.org:8080/projects/pdp-11/dcj11.php

Which is it?
Thanks
Eugene W2HX

From: cctalk  on behalf of Paul Birkel via
cctalk 
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 4:00 AM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: DEC FPJ11-AA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEC-PDP-11-84-M8190-AE-Module-FPJ11-AA/113112634277



IMO a really good deal on an 18 Mhz FPJ11-AA.  Those don't seem to come up
much .



Not my item, but I have previously purchased from this seller and he's
reliable.



-

=

DEC FPJ11-AA

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEC-PDP-11-84-M8190-AE-Module-FPJ11-AA/113112634277

 

IMO a really good deal on an 18 Mhz FPJ11-AA.  Those don't seem to come up
much .

 

Not my item, but I have previously purchased from this seller and he's
reliable.

 

-

How to get rid of a DECwriter II?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Cross-post for the DEC Lovers here.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 9:52 PM
Subject: [GreenKeys] How to get rid of a DECwriter II?

I'd sure like to get this thing out to make room for more Teletypes.
Located in NW Arkansas.

Jim Haynes 

-

RE: Tennecomp

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Three possibly interesting papers about some Tennecomp equipment uses.

The third  (MCA FOCAL) references the "PDP-9, PDP-9/L, or PDP-15".
Also references DEC-15-MR2B-D "Advanced Monitor Software System for 
PDP-15/20/30/40".

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758%2FBF03201748.pdf
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5488/56767b7c6a5b97d5076902ff92e94ff3e836.pdf
https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc1026093/m2/1/high_res_d/4603095.pdf

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Owen via 
cctalk
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 5:22 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Tennecomp

Al uploaded some of my Tennecomp docs onto Bitsavers:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/tennecomp/

He also already had some brochures, which are very interesting as well.

Anyone else have some Tennecomp stuff? I've got more stuff to scan,
including a bunch of schematics (size C paper, for the most part), as well
as a few other manuals I believe.

I'd be curious to hear any of their history, especially because of their
location in Oak Ridge, TN.

I will also photograph some of my Tennecomp things (my Minidek, some
Omnibus boards, etc.) at some point.

Thanks,

Kyle

P.S. My Minidek came with some carts, but the pressure pads are all rotted.
A cursory glance online didn't turn up any source of replacement pads in
stock for Fidelipacs/Stereo-Paks. Anyone have any suggestions, or tips on
making your own?

LCM 8/e System Photo makes ZDNet

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

https://www.zdnet.com/article/from-paper-tape-to-the-altair-8800-the-story-o
f-my-first-computers/

 

Noel will appreciate the blinky-lights controller panel top-dead-center :->.

 

paul

RE: Message Reply with quotation

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

In Outlook, this behavior is controlled using:  Options : Mail : Replies and
forwards

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pontus
Pihlgren via cctech
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 8:10 AM
To: GerardCJAT; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: cct...@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Message Reply with quotation

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 09:46:23AM +0100, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote:
> Hello Guys,
> 
> It seems that YOU can reply to cctech message(s) with "quoting" the 
> answered message.
> 
> How do you do that ???

My mail client does it automatically for me. When I hit reply I get the 
message I reply to with the character ">" placed in front of each line.

It looks like you are using Outlook 6 to send mails and I don't know if 
quoting can be accomplished in an easy way. Perhaps copy and add 
">" manually.

/P

RE: DEC Field Guide > equivalent available for Data General?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

107-000187-16  = "DISK CARTRIDGE CONTROL DGC NOVA"

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ulrich Tagge 
via cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 5:37 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: DEC Field Guide > equivalent available for Data General?

Hi all,

is there somewhere a list of DG modules which includes also 3rd 
party/OEM, ... like it is available for DEC?

Would be good to know what the following is:

107-000621 02
107-000621 03/11
107-001632-00
107-0016320/02
107-000718-00
107-000181-04
107-000187-16
107-000187-15-30
AB020116-00
107-000621-03
107-001768-02
107-001768-03
107-0017680-1E
107-00053905
Zetaco SCZ-2
 >500-453-00 K
 >500-542-00 K


Many Greetings
Ulrich

RE: XT/370 microcode

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Berger 
via cctalk
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 1:41 PM
To: Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk
Subject: Re: XT/370 microcode

The IBM Systems Journal article does not go into great detail but says 
that a complex of three separate processors are used, a modified 68000 
that executes "a large subset of 370 instructions", a standard 68000 to 
emulate the remainder odf the instructions and a modified 8087 to 
execute the floating point.  I am not at liberty to post the document.

Paul.
-

This one?  Seems to be freely available.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/224102395_System370_capability_in_a_desktop_computer

-
paul

RE: radar history

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I dunno about these historical accounts.
>
> I was watching a PBS program about RADAR and the magnetron was made out
> to be a super-secret device, yet there's a clear explanation of it in my
> 1942 "Radio Handbook".
>
> --Chuck

For a non-sensationalized accounting that tracks developments, and 
personalities, over the course of many decades of developments and spin-offs, 
try:

The Invention That Changed the World:
How a Small Group of Radar Pioneers Won the Second World War and Launched a 
Technical Revolution
(1998; Touchstone; 576 pp)

Authored by Robert Buderi, former technology editor for Business Week.

Yes, quite an over-the-top title ... but the content isn't that way at all, 
IMO.  It stacks up quite well against academic treatises on related topics 
(e.g., Whirlwind) published by MIT Press.

-
paul

ARPANET Reaches the Royal Signals and Radar Establishment (RSRE, Malvern)

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

The following extract comes from a History of Programming Languages (HOPL)
retrospective on the development of the Ada programming language written by
the individual who was the government lead at DARPA for much of the time of
its development (Colonel William A. Whitaker).  I found it humorous.
Perhaps you will too.

 

-

The ARPANET connection was inaugurated during a visit to RSRE by Her Royal
Highness Queen Elizabeth II.  Her Majesty sent a message of greetings to the
members of the HOLWG from her net account, EIIR, by pressing a red velvet
Royal carriage return.  Because the address list was long, it took about 45
seconds for the confirmation to come back, 45 seconds of dead air.  Prince
Philip remarked, joking respectfully, that it looked like she broke it.

-

 

I suspect that we've "all been there" at one time or another!

paul

 

RE: Microfiches on Ebay

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind 
via cctalk
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 10:15 AM
To: Noel Chiappa; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Microfiches on Ebay

2018-02-11 0:04 GMT+01:00 Noel Chiappa via cctalk :

> > From: Mattis Lind
>
> > Many are already available online but some I cannot find.
>
> Which ones are you missing? I'm curious to see if my set has them.

I cannot find the DW750 Technical manual online for example.  But someone
has bought that fiche now.  Of course there are plenty of manuals for
various printers and other esoteric devices which might be of less
interest.There is a "DEC GT41/GT43 Graphic Display Terminal Install &
Maintenance Manual" for which I cannot find any traces of online. What is
GT41/GT43 BTW?

> Noel
>

/Mattis

-

I screen-scraped the following list of available microfiche.  I certainly don't 
recognize some of those items!

DEC 433MP Application Service Guide, Microfiche
DEC 881 Power Controller User Guide, Microfiche
DEC AA50 Digital To Analog Converter Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC AAV11 ADV11 KWV11-A DRV11 Users Guides, Microfiche
DEC ADQ32 A/D Converter Module User Guide, Microfiche
DEC ADQ32-SF A/D Converter Module Option Installation Guide, Microfiche
DEC ADV11-SF Analog-To-Digital Converter Module Option Install Guide, Microfiche
DEC ASF171 Automatic Sheet Feeder, Microfiche
DEC AXV11-C/KWV11-C Analog Module And Real-Time Clock Module, Microfiche
DEC AXV11-SF Analog I/O Module Option Installation Guide, Microfiche
DEC BA11-A Mounting Box And Power System Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC BA11-K 10.5 Inch Mounting Box Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC BA11-L Mounting Box Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC BA123 Enclosure Maintenance, Microfiche
DEC BA123-UC Inner Shield Upgrade Kit Installation Guide, Microfiche
DEC BA214 Enclosure Maintenance, Microfiche
DEC BA215 Enclosure Maintenance, Microfiche
DEC BA220/221 E-Series Industrial Workstation Maintenance Advisory, Microfiche
DEC BA400 Series Enclosures Storage Devices Installation Procedures, Microfiche
DEC BAM11 Status/Alarm Monitor Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC BDV11 Bus Terminator/Bootstrap/Diagnostic Technical & ROM Manuals Microfiche
DEC BL01 AC Line Monitor Maintenance Manual, Microfiche
DEC BM873 Restart/Loader Manual, Microfiche
DEC CB11 Telplant Interface Manual, Microfiche
DEC CD11 Card Reader System Manual, Microfiche
DEC CI750 Computer Interconnect Technical Description Manual, Microfiche (2)
DEC CMR11 Technical & Installation Manuals (2), Microfiche (2)
DEC CVC Installation And Operation Manual H7226 (60Hz), Microfiche
DEC CXY08 Asynchronous Multiplexer Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DA11-F Unibus Window Maintenance Manual, Microfiche
DEC DA28-A Interprocessor Buffer Maintenance Manual, Microfiche
DEC DA28-C Interprocessor Buffer Maintenance Manual, Microfiche
DEC DA28-F Interprocessor Buffer Maintenance Manual, Microfiche
DEC DA28-J Interprocessor Buffer Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DAV11-B LSI-11 DMA Interprocessor Link Option Description, Microfiche
DEC DB11-A Bus Repeater Manual, Microfiche
DEC DB11-H Bus Repeater Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DC08 Telegraph Line Maintenance Manual, Microfiche
DEC DECconnect System Facilities Cabling Installation Guide, Microfiche
DEC DECmux 300 Remote Terminal Multiplexer Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DECOM Broadband Ethernet Transceiver Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DECserver 100 Terminal Server Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DECserver 200/MC Hardware Installation Owner's Guide, Microfiche
DEC DECstation 210 Personal Computer Service Guide, Microfiche
DEC DECstation 300 SERIES Personal Computer Service Guide, Microfiche
DEC DEFTR Digital Broadband Ethernet Frequency Translator Manuals, Microfiche
DEC DELQA-SF Q-Bus To Ethernet Adapter Option Installation Guide, Microfiche
DEC DEMPR Digital Thinwire Ethernet Multiport Repeater Guide, Microfiche
DEC DEMWA Digital Ethernet Microwave Adapter Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DEPCA Digital Ethernet Personal Computer Bus Adapter Guide, Microfiche
DEC DEQNA User's Guide, Microfiche
DEC DEQNA-SF Ethernet Interface Option Installation Guide, Microfiche
DEC DEREP Ethernet Repeater Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DESQA-SF Switchable Qbus To Ethernet Adapter Option Guide, Microfiche
DEC DESTA Digital Thinwire Ethernet Station Adapter, Microfiche
DEC DF11-W Interface Service Manual, Microfiche
DEC DFC11-A Converter Clock Maintenance Manual, Microfiche
DEC DFS11-BA/BC EIA RS-422 Signal Cond. Module Option Description, Microfiche
DEC DFS11-BB/BD Mil 188-114B Signal Condition Mod Option Description, Microfiche
DEC DH11 Asynchronous Multiplexer Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DHB32 Asynchronous Multiplexer User Guide, Microfiche
DEC DHQ11 Asynchronous Multiplexer Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DHU11 Interface Technical Manual, Microfiche
DEC DHV11 Remote 

RE: anyone recognize this blank board?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

DPM01 DECdataway terminal multiplexer ("a microprocessor-based peripheral 
interface")?

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/terminal/EK-VT110_UG-001_Dec78.pdf

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via 
cctalk
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 11:50 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: anyone recognize this blank board?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/311965565048

The same seller has a VT180 and some variant of the VT100 with an expansion 
board
I don't recognize

Interesting thing about the blank board is it says "VT-11X" on it and it looks 
like
it would have been an 8-bit CPU looking at the string of DRAMs on it.

RE: Details about IBM's early 'scientific' computers

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Wonderful document.  Thank you IBM Customer Engineering!

-Original Message-
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Camiel
Vanderhoeven via cctech
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 4:01 AM
To: Noel Chiappa; cctech; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Details about IBM's early 'scientific' computers

Have you really looked at everything that is on Bitsavers? It¹s much more
than just the engineering manuals. If I may offer a suggestion, have a
look at this document and see if it fits your needs:

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/7090/ce/223-6895-1_7090_CE_Reference_System
_Fundamentals_7100_7151_7606_Sep61.pdf 

Camiel

On 11/14/17, 4:32 AM, "cctech on behalf of Noel Chiappa via cctech"
 wrote:

>Please, everyone, I do actually know of BitSavers; you don't need to
>point me
>at it.
>
>When I said:
>
>>> I could look at the engineering manuals, but I was hoping for
something
>>> in between them and Bashe et al.
>
>I assumed everyone would understand that by "engineering manuals", I was
>meaning the kind of things one finds in BitSavers.
>
>   Noel

RE: Computing Pioneer Dies

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa via cctalk
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 5:00 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Computing Pioneer Dies

> From: Brent Hilpert

> What about that little issue of writeable program storage?

Just to clarify my understanding of your position, is a system with a CPU
chip (say one of the 68K models) with only ROM not a 'stored program
machine'?

Noel

PS: You really should look at the book ("ENIAC In Action"), and not rely on
the articles; it's later, more coherent (not being split across a handful of
papers), and much more detailed (e.g. it includes the instruction set for
the
'programmed' version of the ENIAC).

-

Note that most of the BRL references in the three articles in the IEEE
Annals of the History of Computing are available online through DTIC.
Search using Google Scholar.

Unfortunately the referenced manuscripts located in private archives appear
to remain inaccessible to the general public.

Tables I thru III in the second paper, offering a set of side-by-side
comparisons for "ENIAC, EDVAC, and three other computers of the late 1940s"
are well worth contemplation.  The third paper puts a practical perspective
on the somewhat more theoretical perspectives of the first two papers. "1948
ENIAC" was a quite interesting reorganization/application of the computing
resources available in the "1945 ENIAC".

It looks like the somewhat less expensive paperback for "ENIAC in Action" is
due for publication in January.

Noel:  Does the book make any attempt to trace any technological/social
effects *from* the "1948 ENIAC" to other computer developments?  Or are we
to conclude that the "1948 ENIAC" was aa significant "existence proof" for
aspects of the First Report (and evidently quite productive as a
computational tool) but sterile with respect to direct progenitors and
impact on other computer developments of the late-1940's?  For example, do
they cite any evidence that either BINAC or early UNIVAC were other than
"from whole cloth" in nature?  Any of the "IACs"?  Perhaps more at the level
of "coding style/procedures" than hardware
architecture/design/implementation?

As an engineer, I like systems that "get stuff done" and the "1948 ENIAC"
certainly qualifies.

As a (computer) scientist I like what SSEM demonstrated and the fact that it
had direct (physical & intellectual) offspring.

As a practical person I like that the SSEM directly led to the "first
general-purpose commercially produced computer" (Ferranti Mark 1).

There's a lot to like in the span of 1945-1955!

-
paul

RE: HP 7970E - interest to split?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

Well, as others have pointed out, a "tape transport" is not the whole 
ball-of-wax.  You need the ability to format the tape into blocks and then 
control tape motion in terms of those blocks.  That's what you'd be responsible 
for in your added electronics.  From the Introduction in the Kennedy manual:

"The Model 9800 is equipped with the electronics
necessary for reading and writing tapes and for
controlling the tape motion. The head specifications
and the mechanical and electrical tolerances of the
Model 9800 meet the requirements for IBM compatibility.

However, the formatting electronics, parity
generator, cyclic redundancy check character (CRCC)
generator, gap control, etc, are not included and
must be provided by the tape control and formatter
in order to generate properly formatted IBM compatible
tapes."

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Anders Nelson 
via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:41 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: HP 7970E - interest to split?

Ah, yeah that's actually better for my purpose. I'm more concerned with the
data interface - can I just read and write bits at will or are there
contingencies as someone mentioned before?

=]

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:06 AM Paul Birkel <pbir...@gmail.com> wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Anders
> Nelson via cctalk
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 7:01 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: HP 7970E - interest to split?
>
> Hmmm, interesting. How does the 7970 compare to the Kennedy 9800?:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kennedy-9800-9-Track-Data-Tape-Subsystem/232493086636
>
> For the same price the Kennedy drive looks more beautimous...
>
> =]
>
> --
> Anders Nelson
>
> -
>
>
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/kennedy/Kennedy_9800_Digital_Tape_Transport_Operation_and_Maintenance_Manual.pdf
>
> 8.5" reels  (not the full size 10.5")
>
>
> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/hp/tape/7970/07970-90885_7970oper_Dec76.pdf
>
> -
>
> --
--
Anders Nelson
+1 (517) 775-6129
www.erogear.com

RE: HP 7970E - interest to split?

[Paul Birkel via cctalk]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Anders Nelson 
via cctalk
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 7:01 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: HP 7970E - interest to split?

Hmmm, interesting. How does the 7970 compare to the Kennedy 9800?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kennedy-9800-9-Track-Data-Tape-Subsystem/232493086636

For the same price the Kennedy drive looks more beautimous...

=]

--
Anders Nelson

-

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/kennedy/Kennedy_9800_Digital_Tape_Transport_Operation_and_Maintenance_Manual.pdf

8.5" reels  (not the full size 10.5")

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/hp/tape/7970/07970-90885_7970oper_Dec76.pdf

-