[cctalk] HPE StorageWorks DAT 40 USB Tape Drive questions

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Has anyone used an HPE StorageWorks DAT 40 USB Tape Drive on a Mac / PC /
Linux as a "standard" tape drive (i.e., I want to be able to "dd" from one,
not use some HP provided backup package).  (I have no interest in writing
to tapes, BTW)

I just got such a drive today (#1), and hope to use it to read 10 to 20
year old DDS2 & DDS3 tapes in a "tapecopy" (semi-raw data to disk file)
manner.
(The DAT 40 is a DDS4 drive, which supports reading DDS2 and DDS3 ... newer
drives don't support DDS2, and I've never seen a DDS3 on USB.)

I found HP's cache of docs/drivers for the newer DAT 72 drive, and some
indications that the -40 and -72 are essentially similar (other than the
-72 being a DDS5 drive).

I'd prefer reading the tapes on a Mac, but if Linux/Win is needed, I'm
hoping I can use a virtual one :)

thanks!


1. I'd try it out today, but my main computer is packed up, waiting to move
to a temporary house, because we have to move out of our house due to
water-damage driven kitchen remodel  : (

[cctalk] Quoting/replying etiquette. (was: Re: I need to make some space.)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

PLEASE TRIM THE DARN POST BEFORE REPLYING!

For example, Bill's interesting post about needing space was 75 lines long
(#1)...

The first reply included the ENTIRE MESSAGE.

The second, from another very long time participant, was TWO !@#$%^& LINES
OF NEW CONTENT, with *TWO COPIES OF THE ORIGINAL POST* (about 145 lines).

I don't want to single out just that post ... I haven't counted, but I'd
bet that the vast majority of posts include the entire OP, and replies!
Some other post had three copies in today's digest.

The basic guideline is to quote *just enough* for the reader to understand
what you're referring to.  (Whether you quote below or above is another
subject entirely :)

Please have consideration for *EVERY* reader of this list, our disk space,
and our network bandwidth!

thanks,

Stan


1. BTW, Bill, that line count includes the totally unnecessary (and never
believable) text:
   "This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com"

[cctalk] Re: digest problem, starting with #115

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi Dennis,

The change to "Plain Text Digests" worked, thanks!

Stan

[cctalk] digest problem, starting with #115

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Has anyone else noticed that the list server is screwing up digest emails,
starting with Volume #115?

Prior to #115, each message would start with:


--


Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 18:49:31 + (WET)
From: ...
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Ident...
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"

Message-ID: <01skkmc7x5cg8wy...@beyondthepale.ie>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN


As of 115, that demarcation has disappeared.

Here's an example from #119, message #6:


-- Forwarded message --
From: Devin D 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2022 12:48:23 -0500
Subject: [cctalk] Guidance on repairing Dec PDP 11 System
Greetings,


Note that that's *NOT* a "forwarded" message (in the normal CCTALK digest
sense), but the start of a new message.

Since most people are *EXTREMELY BAD* at trimming the messages they are
replying to, the lack of proper message demarcation makes reading the
digest quite difficult.

Sadly, the listserver doesn't post the version number of the its code with
each digest (well, as far as I could see), so I can't definitively tie this
to a version change.

Can this be reverted/fixed, please?

thanks,

Stan

[cctalk] list problem with digestmode

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Is anyone else getting 4 to 10 digest emails a day, each with 4 to 8
messages?
(cctalk)  (Instead of one a day)

I have received four digest emails since noon:  2:57PM (8 msgs), 3:47 PM (7
msgs), 5:44 PM (7 msgs), and 8:24 PM (6 msgs).  (Yes, all embedded messages
are different.)

I tried emailing the list owner, but the only response I got was from a
moderator (Lawrence W, who specifically said he wasn't the owner), who
wasn't able to help me.  (He did suggest checking my mode...see below.)

I tried going to the website to "login" and check my status...it said my
email address wasn't known (which, of course, was patently false...since
I'm receiving emails :)

So, I tried: subscribe with sie...@allegro.com, ensure I have 'digest' mode
on.

And.still get multiple messages per day ... *not* what a digest is!

This started happening on the order of 3 to 6 months ago.  I used to get a
single digest a day, with 20 to 50 messages in it.

The multiple messages (even though they're smaller) are really annoying.

As a possible clue...somewhere around March we (my business partner and I)
sold our domain, allegro.com, in the process of retiring.  The new owner is
providing two years of email  forwarding of sie...@allegro.com to
sie...@allegrosupport.com (the latter is a gmail corporate managed account,
as allegro.com had been prior to March).  (Oh, I tried "logging" in via
both domains with no luck.)

If the forwarding is a factor, I could try to get allegro/allegrosupport
unsubscribed and use a third account :)

thanks!

Stan Sieler
sie...@allegro.com
sie...@allegrosupport.com
sie...@gmail.com

[cctalk] Re: Symbolics (Lisp) manuals, flyers available

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

The manuals are claimed, probably, sort of ... it's complicated.

The TL;DR is that someone may want to scan some for CHM, and someone else
definitely has asked for the originals.
So, it's being unraveled now.

thanks!

Stan

[cctalk] Symbolics (Lisp) manuals, flyers available

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

I have 15 manuals, flyers, and miscellaneous papers from/about the
Symbolics, Inc computer(s), database, and more.

Pictures at http://www.sieler.com/symbolics

If anyone's interested, please  email me (sie...@gmail.com)

List:

Concordia__Object-Oriented_Document_Management___Symbolic_Inc__copy
Introducing_Statice___The_first_Object-Oriented_Database_System__copy
Lisp_Machine_Summary
Lisp_Machine_Summary__a_bit_rough
Program_Development___Help_Facilities
Program_Development___Tools_and_Techniques
Reference_Guide_to_Symbolics-Lisp
Symbolics_Concordia
Symbolics_Marketing
Symbolics___3600_Symbol_Processing_Systems
Symbolics__a_brochure
Symbolics__flyer
The_Symbolics_3670__Discover_the_power_of_symbolic_processing
The_Symbolics_Genera_Programming_Environment__from_a_magazine
VERAC_Announced_GeoFlavors___on_Your_Symbolics_Lisp_Machine__flyer

thanks,

Stan

[cctalk] HP 150 software

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

I found a bunch of original HP 150 software on 3.5" floppies ...
any HP 150 collectors here?Free, pickup, Cupertino.

Includes the following.  About 1/2 are original disks.

The most unusual are probably the compilers from Prospero, and the
IMAGE-like database (Mirage?) from Datasoft International (the developer
was likely Michel Kohon, from France, and a member of the HP 3000
community).

Datacom:
   DSN/Link
   HP PCLink
   Kermit
   PC2622
   Reflection 1 Plus

Misc / Unknown:
   Ally/150
   Application Master Extended I/O Application
   Cardfile (full app)
   Cardfile demo
   Computer tutor 150
   Edit/150 from KSD systems Limited
   Infocom sampler
   Interex CSL/100 volume 56
   Interex CSL150  (contributed library)
   Mentor version 1.E.1 from KSD systems Limited
   System demo
   Thinkjet demo
   Visicalc

Games:
   Tick Tock, Radar, Othello, others
   Type attack, Temple of Apshai, Ricochet
   Winning Deal
   Zork

Programming...
   C (unknown...just says "C" on label)
   Lattice C
   MASM
   Modula 2
   MVP Forth (on misc games floppy)
   Pro Fortran from Prospero
  Pro For 1  (possibly same as above)
   Pro Pascal from Prospero
   Borland Turbo Pascal 2.0

   ISV Development  (from HP)
   ISV revision A.1.2 (Independent Software Vendor toolkit from HP?)
   Programmers Toolkit  (HP)
   Programmers tools: debug, sort, find, edlin, ece2bin, ...more... (HP)

Database: ???
   Mirager Version ii 2.A.1 Datasoft International
   Mirage Library
   Mirage I

//

Canon AI Note IN-3000 and IN-5000 question

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Does anyone know when the Canon AI Note  IN-5000 was released?

The nearly identical Canon AI Note IN-3000 came out in 1989, and I wonder
(without proof) if it (3000) might have a been a slightly later,
cost-reduced version of the 5000.

Google searching came up empty for the IN-5000,
and all hits I got for the IN-3000 were copies of an old ebay-like page
offering one some years ago.

It's a Newton/Magic like calculator (and more) that recognized handwritten
equations (and more).

thanks,

Stan

mystery S-100 available

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

I have a mystery S-100 computer that I'm would like to sell, from the
estate of the late Ken Gielow (author of Z80DIS, a great Z80 disassembler).

The proceeds will be donated to a non-tax-deductible magic group Ken was a
long-time member of.

The computer is located in Cupertino, CA (aka "the heart of Silicon
Valley", in the S.F. Bay Area).   (If reopened, you can combine a pickup
with a visit to the Computer History Museum in nearby Mountain View, CA! :)

This would likely be quite expensive to ship.  I'd guess 30+ pounds.

Photos and some info at:
   www.sieler.com/ken_photos

Some of the hardware (also listed on the above page):
   ThinkerToys buss
   unknown semi-transparent front panel
   spare/uninstalled Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 front panel
   10 various boards inside
   metal case (heavy)

There may be manuals on some of the boards and/or the Ithaca, but I'm not
sure yet.  (They would be included, if they exist.)

I wanted to take photos of each board, but having been seated for about 40
years, they don't come out if I tug gently.  None have integrated board
lifters, unfortunately
(I tried a boroscope, but could not get useful photos.)

Based on the labels on some EPROMS, there's a chance that it's a homebrew
TRS-80 clone, with both Level II BASIC and CBASIC, and may have Morrow
DISCUS software on it.

We're looking for an offer on either:

   - the Ithaca Intersystems front panel;

   - the computer with all the boards

or both.

Suggestions welcome, thanks!

Re: OT: looking for help remembering name/info about security bug

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Re:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:02 PM Jonathan Katz  wrote:

>
> Heartbleed?
>

Checked the source code for that just now ...
nope, sorry.

I recall the problem being completely different from buffer overflow (e.g.,
by a unchecked memcpy ()),
and more akin to either the programmer misinterpreting what a function did
because of a poor name for the function,
or using logical instead of boolean (or vice versa) logic.   Of course, I
could be wrong there :)

thanks!

Re: OT: looking for help remembering name/info about security bug

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

I've received a couple of suggestions, thanks, but none seem right.

BTW, I'm sorry (Liam) that I didn't make it clearer that it was absolutely
a software bug, which excludes Spectre, Rowhammer, Meltdown.

Aside: the Meltdown and/or Spectre patch to macOS hurt performance ... the
elapsed time to compile 500 programs increased by about 12%.  (At the time
of the patch, I tested (properly) before and after the patch ... then
forgot to publish, and since misplaced my notes.)

Although I mentioned 'code', I should have been more specific: C (or,
possibly, C++), but definitely no other language.

I don't recall it being a buffer overflow.

I *think* it was some kind of authentication failure (e.g., incorrectly
reporting "ok"), but I'm not sure.

I do know I wrote a several page article about it, and how certain coding
practices led to it, but I can't *find* the article now  :(
(not published)
My guess of 4-6 years ago is possibly narrower than it should be, but I'm
not sure.

My hope is that by being reminded of the vulnerability name, I can search
my computer, and backups, for text files containing that name :)
(Or the name of function associated with the problem.)

thanks,

Stan

Re: OT: looking for help remembering name/info about security bug

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Re:

> The Debian 4 OpenSSL disaster comes to mind, where IIRC a know-it-all
> package manager beautified the source and reduced the effective length
> of any generated keys to 32 bit. But that was more like 15 yrs ago...
>

That sound like something I should read about, thanks ... but it isn't it.

Stan

OT: looking for help remembering name/info about security bug

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

I'm trying to remember the name (and some information about) a past
security bug, for an article.

Somewhere between 4 and 6 years ago (I think), there was a fairly major
security bug reported (probably in Linux, or in SSH code, but
something widely used).

IIRC, the bug was a single line that called a function (possibly along the
lines of CredentialsCheck), and may have involved a bit-wise or (or and)
instead of a logical one.

It may have been that either the routine wasn't getting called when it
should, or that the programmer misinterpreted what the return value meant.

Ring any bells?

thanks!

Stan

Chuck Shimada passed away

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Long-time HP3000 programmer/user/evangelist, and friend, Chuck Shimada
passed away yesterday, 12/26.

Many list members will have seen Chuck at Interex and SCRUG conventions,
running the tech side, or as part of the convention staff.   He was a major
force in the creation of the early "swap tapes" for contributed software.
The science fiction fans on the list may have also seen him running tech at
many science fiction conventions.

>From a facebook post by Michael Donohue:

I am very saddened to report that Chuck Shimada passed away this morning,
Dec 26, 2021. He had been doing okay but was not feeling great Dec 24/25.
I spoke to him Dec 24 and we had a nice conversation.
He had some episode in his sleep, the nurse found him this morning alive
but unresponsive with weak pulse and he passed away a few hours later.  So
he likely did pass without conscious discomfort.

//

FS: HP 3000s (928LX) for sale in Texas

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Since they're vintage...

A friend is selling two HP 3000/928LX computers.  I don't know what he
wants for them.  For people interested in the HP 3000, this would be a nice
buy.

Size-wise, they're between a PC and a 2-drawer file cabinet in size.
They'll be network capable (may require a transceiver, but likely comes
with, and they're generally about $10 otherwise).

The following describes one, but there are two...


  1. HPe3000 928LX.

  2. 128mb main memory.

  3. (2) 4gb internal disk drives.

  4. DDS-2 internal tape drive.(two in one system and one in the other)

  5. MPE/iX 7.5 Operating System with 8 user license.

  6. System Consoles with keyboards.

  7. SE SCSI Interface Card

  8. External Disk drive mini cabinet with SCSI drives

Bonus: Backup and systems DDS tapes, Manuals, extra 4gb SCSI disks, and
Misc. Documentation

Lots of software.

Both systems were operating when shut down recently. Buy as is with no
guarantee..

Make an offer. Buyer to arrange packing and shipping.

Location: At my home office in Carrollton, TX

Contact Paul Edwards, pedwa...@gte.net

Datapoint 2200 on ebay

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Noticed a Datapoint 2200 on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275043446827

They're asking $48,000

I want one...but not for that price! :)

Getting files from HP 3000 tapes (was: Re: HP 2000 TSB and FORTRAN)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Ed writes:
   ?If? we? ever? ?get? a? way? to? read? tapes? ? for? the? 2000 and? 3000?

Well, we can "read" tapes for the HP 3000, and restore the files from HP
3000 backup tapes ... via Allegro Consultant's "ROSETTA STORE" product (of
which I'm the primary author).

I'm happy to restore some files for fellow collectors/enthusiasts (as
time/energy permits) for free.

The problem breaks down into two parts:

1. reading the tape

Although Rosetta can read from a physical tape drive, that capability
hasn't been tested for a decade (because of loss of hardware).

Every user we know of uses Rosetta to restore files from tape images.

There are a number of formats of tape images ... quite a number.

Rosetta understands many tape image formats, including:
AWS / HET
STORE-to-disk
SIMH
Stromasys tape image
Tapecopy format (Data Conversion Resources)
(Oddly, I think it doesn't understand Allegro's own proprietary tape image
format, which records a lot more information than others (e.g., read-retry
information).)

If  you need an HP 3000 'STORE' tape recovered, and it's in a different
format, let me know.


2. extracting files from the tape image

Rosetta can read Classic HP 3000 STORE tapes (aka "CM STORE") of various
versions, and MPE/iX STORE tapes (aka "NM STORE") of various versions
(although 'interleave' has been tested only very lightly).

By "read" I mean that it extracts the desired files, converts some (with
some controls), and creates either a hierarchical directory structure
matching the original, or a flattened one.

What about IMAGE databases?
On some platforms (Linux, HP-UX, Windows (?)), IMAGE databases can be
converted to Eloquence databases (Eloquence is a product of Marxmeier
software).
On all platforms, IMAGE databases can be converted to .csv or .xml files.

It can also handle SLT tapes, and provide some information on a few other
kinds of tapes one might see from an HP 3000 (e.g., dump tapes, Serial Disc
images), SPOOK tapes.

Rosetta runs on Mac, Linux, HP-UX, and Windows.

The HP-UX version can read older versions of ORBiT's Online Backup tapes
(before they changed the tape record header format)

TL;DR   Ed: for the 3000, it's essentially a solved problem, and has been
for over 20 years!


Note: I also have a utility to restore files from (older?) Burroughs
mainframe (e.g., B6700) backup tapes.

Ken Gielow passed away

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Last week, Ken Gielow passed away.  He was the author of the Z80DIS
disassembler,
which was both interactive and used a form of "artificial intelligence" to
cleverly disassemble Z80 code.

Re: Call for manuals and maybe floppies: IBM 8100

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Re:
"My next project once I finish my IBM 1410 FPGA implementation (so, a
couple of years out, probably) would be to write an emulator for the
boat anchor known as the IBM 8100.  I had exposure to these things back
in the 1980s."

I encountered one, once.  Probably 1979, in a small conference room in
building 47U of Hewlett-Packard's Cupertino site.  Sitting all alone in the
room.  I was looking at it, and an HP engineer came in and explained
that they were waiting for IBM service to fix the memory board  ...
the board HP had removed to look at closely :)

On compiling. (Was a way off topic subject)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Paul K got it right:
"Any language can be interpreted or compiled.  For some languages, like
LISP and TECO, interpreting is a rather natural implementation techniques,
while for others (C, ALGOL) compilation is the obvious answer.  But either
is possible."

A few quick notes...

Back around 1973, I wrote a compiler for InterLISP on the Burroughs B6700,
with the target code being  a new P-code invented just for LISP (by, I
think, Bill Gord, based on Peter Deutsch and Ken Bowles P-code work).
Yeah, some parts of the P-code machine had to invoke the interpreter, but
that's philosophically no different than the next note...

Around 1977/1978,  Hewlett-Packard released the source code for their COBOL
compiler for the HP 3000.  My friend looked at the source and said: every
statement compiles into a bunch of subroutine calls!
So, technicallyit was a compiler.  But, essentially no machine code was
emitted :)

In 1984, HP announced their PA-RISC systems (HP 3000 and HP 9000), and that
their ALGOL-like language, SPL, used by them and customers on the HP 3000,
would not be ported to PA-RISC (because "it wasn't possible").
We looked at it and said: we can.
And, we did (without the "subroutine call" mechanism :)
In some cases, we emulate a 16-bit wide CISC architecture (e.g., if you use
the SPL construct "ASSEMBLE (...)", we compile it...into PA-RISC code
emulating the old architecture).  It's still in use today, and can now emit
either PA-RISC code or C source code (for a form of cross-compiling).

What HP missed, and many people miss, is that any language can be
compiled.  The main question one might ask is the degree of closeness to
machine code that's emitted :)

Stan

Re: PDP-11 SPACEWAR running again!

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Re:
   Today I finally got the SPACEWAR version for PDP-11/10 running again
on my PDP-11/05 with AR11 board.
 ...
Bill Seiler and Larry Bryant wrote this version in 1974

Congratulations!

Odd coincidence, sort of, in names ... "Seiler" wrote SPACEWAR in 1974 for
the PDP-11, "Sieler" (me) wrote it for the Digital Scientific Meta 4 (an
IBM 1130 super clone) in 1971.  I suspect he gets his name mispronounced as
much as I do :)

Stan Sieler  (long "e")

the question

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

I just wanted to thank Tony for asking the question (disability vs. masks)
and particularly wanted to thank Robert for the kindness of answering it!

I learned something today!

Stan

Re: name/model of HP portable printer? (not HP 2225x) circa 1993

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

I think I've finally decided: yes.  :)

It looks like Fred C. might have one, so I will wait to hear from him.

thanks!

Stan


On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 12:29 PM Mike Stein  wrote:

> Yup, cute little printer; want one?
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 9:55 PM Stan Sieler via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Bingo, David nailed it!
>>
>> (The HP DeskJet Portable)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Stan
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 11:31 PM  wrote:
>>
>> > How about this...
>> >
>> > http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=311
>> >
>> > David Collins
>> > www.hpmuseum.net
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Stan Sieler
>> via
>> > cctalk
>> > Sent: Friday, 12 March 2021 6:22 PM
>> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
>> > cctalk@classiccmp.org>
>> > Subject: name/model of HP portable printer? (not HP 2225x) circa 1993
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Does anyone remember the product name or number of the tiny HP portable
>> > printer (*not* an HP 2225 of any kind!) that probably came out about the
>> > same time as the HP Omnibook 300 (1993)?
>> > (My google-fu failed me.)
>> >
>> > IIRC, it was able to print on regular paper 8.5" wide, probably using a
>> > thinkjet mechanism.
>> > Battery powered, probably black, probably HP-IL interface.
>> >
>> > I remember coveting one when I got my first Omnibook, but by that time
>> > they were off the market and the only one I ever saw wasn't for sale (I
>> did
>> > borrow it for a few days, it worked well).
>> > The use of standard (in the U.S.) paper, plus the tiny size, had be
>> > interested in it.
>> >
>> > thanks,
>> >
>> > Stan
>> >
>> >
>>
>

Re: name/model of HP portable printer? (not HP 2225x) circa 1993

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Fred tempts me from the garden: "does that mean you want one?"  It's only
one ... it's easy ... try it 

Argh...I was hoping I wouldn't be asked that, because I couldn't decide.
... ... ok...

I think I'd be interested in having one that would work with an Omnibook
(but have no interest in the paper feeder).
(I knew the feeder existed, but haven't seen one.)

If the 51608A (cartridge used by the printer) is the same as the ones used
in the old ThinkJets, it looks like some people might be selling "new"
ones, but it would probably be a good idea to have a couple to try
cleaning/refilling just in case.

As a history nod: the late Carson Kan of HP Labs was the one who suggested
that the inkhead be a disposable & user replaceable item ... at the time,
the inkjet project was stuck and Barney Oliver sent him to it as his
trouble shooter.  (It was stuck because the non-replaceable printhead kept
getting ink clogs.)
(As related to me by Carson, about 2005.)

thanks,

Stan

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 6:58 PM Fred Cisin  wrote:

> Does that mean that you WANT one?  (or more)
>
> There were several slightly varying models.
> There was a detachable paper feed bracket, that is rarely with it.
> Do you want some OLD cartridges (to clean out and try to refill?)
>
>

Re: name/model of HP portable printer? (not HP 2225x) circa 1993

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Bingo, David nailed it!

(The HP DeskJet Portable)

Thanks!

Stan

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 11:31 PM  wrote:

> How about this...
>
> http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=311
>
> David Collins
> www.hpmuseum.net
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Stan Sieler via
> cctalk
> Sent: Friday, 12 March 2021 6:22 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: name/model of HP portable printer? (not HP 2225x) circa 1993
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone remember the product name or number of the tiny HP portable
> printer (*not* an HP 2225 of any kind!) that probably came out about the
> same time as the HP Omnibook 300 (1993)?
> (My google-fu failed me.)
>
> IIRC, it was able to print on regular paper 8.5" wide, probably using a
> thinkjet mechanism.
> Battery powered, probably black, probably HP-IL interface.
>
> I remember coveting one when I got my first Omnibook, but by that time
> they were off the market and the only one I ever saw wasn't for sale (I did
> borrow it for a few days, it worked well).
> The use of standard (in the U.S.) paper, plus the tiny size, had be
> interested in it.
>
> thanks,
>
> Stan
>
>

name/model of HP portable printer? (not HP 2225x) circa 1993

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Does anyone remember the product name or number of the tiny HP portable
printer (*not* an HP 2225 of any kind!) that probably came out about the
same time as the HP Omnibook 300 (1993)?
(My google-fu failed me.)

IIRC, it was able to print on regular paper 8.5" wide, probably using a
thinkjet mechanism.
Battery powered, probably black, probably HP-IL interface.

I remember coveting one when I got my first Omnibook, but by that time they
were off the market and the only one I ever saw wasn't for sale (I did
borrow it for a few days, it worked well).
The use of standard (in the U.S.) paper, plus the tiny size, had be
interested in it.

thanks,

Stan

Re: Funky electronics chain Fry?s is no more (Seattle Times)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Gavin Scott wrote:
   > We all had a love/hate relationship with Fry's, but they were an
   > institution and will be missed.

Sometime after his story, Gavin moved to the Bay Area to work for my
company.
One day, I started to buy something at Fry's and they asked for my phone
number.
So, I gave the the office number.

The salesman entered it, and said "thank you, Mr. Scott".

I was still "Gavin Scott" to them 15 years later :)

Oh, the "seal of quality".  Not only did it scream "do not buy this item",
but it was a very useful thing ... although not for reasons Fry's
expected.  Many times, I'd be looking at some newer tech item (e.g., a
4-bay RAID enclosure), and see that over half of them had the "seal of
quality".  I quickly developed a rule: two more seals meant: stay away from
this product!

Stan

NOT "Re: APL\360"

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

TL;DR: getting tired of separating the wheat from the chaff


I have an odd but potentially useful idea for the list server ...

Until we have an AI that can properly read a message and re-write the
subject line,
perhaps the list server would *auto generate* a new subject line
after, say, the 29th reply with the same "Re:".

After 29 "Re: APL\360", the next  such msg would have subject line
rewritten to "New topic 1", and the next (up to) 28 "Re: APL\360"
would be similarly re-written (the '28' is decremented for every "Re:
APL\360"
and every "Re: New topic 1").
At that point, the next "Re: APL\360" or next "Re: New topic 1" gets
rewritten as "New topic 2".
(After a reuse counter for a subject has been 0 for two weeks, it could be
reset to 20, to allow much later legitimate replies.)


Yeah, tired of getting hopeful seeing "Re: APL\360" and seeing instead
a discussion of pints, or endianness (big rules, for a number of reasons ...
*even the creator of Intels's memory chip admitted that*), or bit numbering,
or counting sheep!

:)


(And I'm not even complaining about the needless copying of the entire
prior post :)

Re: found it: first speech synthesizer (at least, for S-100 systems)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,
I'd like to apologize for referring to the OCR of the Byte article as a
"fairly bad OCR".
I was thinking of the garbled sections that may be the result of trying to
OCR graphics.

The vast majority of the text comes across clearly, and I don't want to
insult whoever volunteered their time to do the OCR'ing ... I know how
tedious it can be!

I've been spoiled by OCR programs that produce their output as pdfs with
searchable text,
and should have remembered the results I get when I look at just their text!

Stan

found it: first speech synthesizer (at least, for S-100 systems)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Some years back, I was asking if anyone had information about the speech
synthesizer
developed for the Altair 8080 by Wirt Atmar of AICS (in New Mexico).
No "hits".

Most places on the web claimed the Computalker was first, given the date as
1976 or 1977.

(Earlier speech synthesizes existed, but they were external boxes that one
interfaced to,
or were standalone (often with a large/weird keyboard).)

Today, I stumbled over a fairly bad OCR of Byte magazine from August, 1976
at
https://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1976-08/1976_08_BYTE_00-12_Speech_Synthesis_djvu.txt

It has two articles about speech synthesizers for S-100 bus systems.

The first is by the Computalker people, who say:

At the time this article
goes to press, a synthesizer
module incorporating several
detail refinements and im-
provements over the circuits
of this article is being de-
veloped by the author and
associates.

and

A detailed user's
guide will be supplied with the
Computalker module


Note the future tense!

The second is by Wirt Atmar, whose product *was already shipping*.

Near the end of his Byte article, Wirt lists currently available products:

At the present time, two speech synthesizers
are both commercially available and affordable by
the hobbyist.

One is the Votrax produced by:

Vocal Interface Division

Federal Screw Works

500 Stephenson Dr

Troy Ml 48084

Price, approximately $2,000

Interfacing: Parallel or Serial (RS-232)


The second is the Model 1000 manufactured by:

Ai Cybernetic Systems

PO Box 4691

University Park NM 88003

Price, $425


Wirt had told me (twenty years ago or so) that he thought his was the first
for microcomputers (e.g., a user installed card, not an external box).
Now, I'm sure ... but it was reay close!

Wirt demonstrated his product at the earlier MITS World Altair Computer
Conven-
tion, where it won first prize.

He advertised it poorly/infrequently, since it was mostly a side business.
And, that shows, since history doesn't remember it.

Stan

Re: tty and video displays

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Paul writes:

>  General overstrike requires a bitmap display, or some sort of persistent
display.

Although he carefully specified 'general overstrike', I'll still mention
how the HP 2641A (an APL terminal) did it.   When about to enter a newly
received character into memory, the terminal checked if a non-blank was
already in that spot ... if yes, it looked up the pair in an internal ROM
table and replaced the existing character code with a new character code
designed for APL\3000 (a code that, when received, would display as the
appropriate overstrike).

That meant that we couldn't use the terminal at Burroughs, because our APL
had a few overstrikes that weren't in the table.

Stan

when was memory "above" the terminal screen invented?

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

First, apologies if I asked this years ago (I've searched my archives, no
hits :)

When was the concept of memory "above" the screen invented for terminals?

I.e., previously displayed data that had scrolled up and off the screen ...
but could be retrieved (usually by scrolling down).

(Sometimes called "scrollback", or "offscreen memory".)

(BTW, I'm talking about terminal-local memory, not a scrollback implemented
by the computer to which the terminal is connected.)

The HP 2640A, 1974, had (IIRC) several pages of memory available ... the
user could scroll
backwards and see what had been on the screen before it scrolled off (as
long
as it hadn't been lost by having too much subsequent output).

I suspect the DEV VT100, 1978, had it, but I can't find definitive proof
online (sure, I can find VT102 emulators that have scrollback, but reading
an old VT102 manual doesn't make it clear that it has it.)

thanks,

Stan

Re: Vintage Computer Federation Swap Meet 11/7/2020

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

I like it!

thanks!

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 4:39 AM Bill Degnan  wrote:

>
> (And, the guy getting the sandwich had the better deal, IMHO
>>
>
> It's hard with mobile gmail to trim, but regardless I agree!
>
> Bill "meatball sandwitch" Degnan
>
> P.S. As a funny I asked for a meatball sandwitch in exchange for
> essentially giving away a vintage computer. It became a kind of an inside
> joke in the early MARCH club  days.  A form of currency.
>
>>

Re: Vintage Computer Federation Swap Meet 11/7/2020

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,
Please remember ... TRIM YOUR DARN POSTS!

No one needs to see a hundred+ lines of quoted post just to see
a one line reply, no matter what kind of sandwich it was!
(And, the guy getting the sandwich had the better deal, IMHO :)

thanks,

Stan (the other grumpy guy?) Sieler

Re: Notes on HP3000 WCS Microcode, Series 37 on ebay in Germany

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Re:

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:29 AM Lee Courtney  wrote:

> I believe it was a performance issue. The APL was so slow without the
> microcode assist that the system was unusable.
>

Close.  Without the microcode, they had no apparent way of even halfway
efficiently implementing a large virtual memory mechanism
(other than using multiple 64KB data segments, and the number of those was
severely limited, system-wide).  In no way would any HP 3000 (at that time)
run APL\3000 at all without the microcode (#1).

With the microcode, they managed to get a *very slow* virtual memory
system.  Marginally adequate for a few light-weight users, it brought the
HP 3000 Series III (a megahertz machine, IIRC) to its knees with any heavy
use.  Which is why HP was sued over APL\3000.  When HP won (apparently
because the judge decided the person suing should have been able to
determine the performance problem before specifying/buying an HP 3000), HP
immediately dropped APL\3000.  (It had been explained to me that they
didn't want to drop it during the case.)

Stan

1.  Gavin Scott's method lets it run, but by simulating the missing
instructions when they are called and cause an interrupt.

APL\3000 microcode. Was: Re: Notes on HP3000 WCS Microcode, Series 37 on ebay in Germany

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Warner asks:
"Why was microcode support required to make APL work? What did it enable
that couldn't be done in other ways?"  [On an HP 3000 Series III, for
example]

Back in the mid-1970s, on the HP 3000 Series III, the team implementing
APL\3000 apparently decided they would need to implement some form of
virtual memory (beyond the multiple 64KB spaces the HP 3000 Classic
architecture provided).  They chose to add 11 new instructions:
   LDV, STV, MWFV, MWTV, MBFV, MBTV, LDVB, STVB, MVW,
and EGOTO (unnamed by HP), LDWX (unnamed by HP)
The first 9 are "virtual memory" related instructions.  The last two are
not.

These instructions were added shortly after the original Series III
instruction set had previously been expanded by the addition of the new
extended COBOL instructions.  (So, the Series III had two sets of firmware
expansions.)

Subsequent HP 3000 models had the COBOL instructions from day 1.

I presume that the APL instructions weren't ready when the Series 30/33
design was locked down.  I *think* they might have been available later as
an add-on.
I know that a few years later, the instructions were ported to the Series
40/44 microcode by Leon Leong, but they were never released for it
(APL\3000 was in limbo, about to be cancelled at the time.)

But, to answer your question, yes...there are other ways.

Gavin Scott managed to patch the unimplemented instruction handler in MPE
V/R (the release the SIMH HP3000 simulator is running), and got APL\3000
running.  In the meantime, I'm slowing trying to add the instructions to
the SIMH code.  The nice thing about Gavin's approach is that if I get an
instruction implemented, his code *for that instruction* simply never gets
called ... so we can coexist peacefully.  In theory, implementing the APL
instructions in SIMH will lead to better performance (because calling one
won't cause a missing instruction interrupt, followed by hundreds or
thousands of simulated HP 3000 instructions to emulate the instruction).

I believe Gavin is preparing a talk about APL\3000 for an APL Users Group.

Another alternative would have been for the APL\3000 people to implement
references to their virtual memory via "cover functions".  However, I
suspect that the grasp of SPL programming, the lack of "macros" with
parameters in SPL, and concerns about the performance penalty of a
procedure call per memory access all would have conspired to argue against
this approach.

(Having been reading thousands of lines of SPL written in the 1970s, I
conclude that perhaps a handful of people at HP understood how to write
readable, maintainable SPL code ... and that's probably the same percentage
as SPL programmers outside HP :)

Stan

RE: Burroughs 1975 Annual Report

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Ed asks:  Sure,Stan can add to our Burroughs? collection Ed!

Ok, it's yours.  Email me your snail mail address please (sie...@allegro.com
).

And, I'll scan it first, per some offline requests (I knew I should have
already done that :)

Stan

Burroughs 1975 Annual Report

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Anyone want a Burroughs 1975 Annual Report?
(Free mailing to U.S. address, otherwise PayPal the cost of mailing.)

Nice condition.  44 pages.

thanks,

Stan

HP Terminal Data from 1987

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

I scanned flyers for the HP terminal line (700/22, 700/41, 700/71, 700/92,
and 700/94), and a price list from 1987.

Info at http://sieler.com/hp/other/hp_terminals.html

Stan

HP-UX 7.0 Technical Data flyer

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

I found/scanned/OCR'd the "Technical data" flyer for HP-UX 7.0 (from 1989).

It's at:   http://www.sieler.com/hp/other/hp_ux_7_0.html

Shortly after this, HP quietly dropped the "real time" portion of HP-UX,
and in later years no one at HP seemed to know it had ever been there.

Stan

Re: Burroughs L-series paper tapes

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Re:  If you scroll down to the L9000 there are pictures of the rescue I was
thinking of, which may well be the system you're talking about and even the
lady in question:

>
> http://www.picklesnet.com/burroughs/gallery/bpgltc.htm


Yes!, thanks!

On http://www.picklesnet.com/burroughs/images/fullsize/burr0056.jpg, if you
go out the door, our office was to the left.

I can't recall who took the photos (if I did, it would explain why I'm not
in them :) ... I recognize several local collectors (KS & FMC, at least).

thanks again,

Stan

Re: Burroughs L-series paper tapes

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

>
> Mike Stein writes:
>   > I remember there was another L9000 rescued in California years ago,
> but maybe that's the one you have now.
>

My consulting company was in Redwood City, CA.  Our nextdoor neighbor had a
company leasing new cars.  They ran the company on a Burroughs L9000.

About August of 2000, they were at the point where they could no longer
obtain ledger cards (roughly 8x11 with a magnetic stripe down the side for
computer data), for the L9000, so they were going to move to a PC-based
system.
The owner knew I was a computer collector, so he offered to give me the
L9000.

I was tempted...but it was a large machine, so I arranged for it to be
given to the Computer History Museum (where I was, or became (timeline
hazy) a senior docent).

I remember the owner saying that only the cleverness of their independent
maintenance guy had kept the machine running ... to the point where he'd
machined some replacement parts himself.

I talked to the elderly lady who ran the machine (i.e., did the data
entry).  She compared it to the PC, and lamented the loss of the L9000.
The L9000 was so much faster and easier to use!  She could probably enter
data four or five times faster on the L9000.  It wasn't just a matter of
familiarity ... much of the slowdown was due to the GUI nature of the PC
program they switched to, and they no longer had the luxury of having
relatively purpose-related hardware on the L9000.

Stan

Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

i> From: Alan Perry 
> Why would one get OS/2200 when they can get 
> https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express
>  ?

thanks!

As an old MCP user/developer (although outside the lab), that's really
interesting to me!

Note: you have to register to get the software.  That's apparently
done by clicking on "Downloads".  Then you're presented with a
registration form.  After submitting it, you're told you'll receive an
email.

Don't hold your breath.

It's been 20 minutes, and no email from Unisys :(

(And, no email --> no download)

Stan

Re: On: raising the semantic level of a program

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi Dwight,

Yes...I agree, sounds like how FORTH works.

BTW, I co-implemented a FORTH for the IBM PC, back when the first IBM PC
was released.
(Next Generation Systems FORTH ... 25% faster than the prior speed leader,
Laboratory Microsystems FORTH,
and it had a lot of nice concepts, like a true/accurate decompiler.)
My co-author was Carl Sassenrath, who then went on to write the kernel of
the AMIGA operating system,
and (later) the Rebol language.  (Carl got the inner loop down to 3
instructions vs. LM's 4 instructions :)

Re: LISP ...
Yes, particularly with the advent of BBN-LISP (later named INTERLISP, then
INTERLisp) ...  it had DWIM (Do What I Mean),
and a number of really neat things.  I co-implemented the Burroughs B6500
version on an ARPA contract circa 1973,
so I got to interact with the BBN people a lot, including Danny Bobrow
(spaghetti stacks), who had recently moved
to Xerox PARC, IIRC.
One of the things in INTERLISP was an optional package that implemented
"normal" looking arithmetic expressions,
so one could do something like:  (SETQ FOO (ARITH x * y + 3))
instead of (SETQ (FOO (+ (* x y) 3)))
(nearly 50 year old memory...it might have been higher level, like letting
me do:  (foo = x * y + 3))

I recently found a 1978 version of our INTERLISP source code!
(both the normal interpreter, and our p-code interpreter ... not sure if
the LISP-to-pcode compiler is there)

thanks,

Stan

Re: On: raising the semantic level of a program

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

A friend kindly searched and found an interesting paper from 1973,

Programming by semantic refinement
 JB Morris - ACM SIGPLAN
Notices, 1973 - dl.acm.org.
https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/390014.808298

While an interesting paper, it's going the opposite direction (essentially,
going from an English language description down to a final programming
language).

But, using the L1 (highest level language), L2, ..., Ln (lowest level
language) concept, I can phrase my concept better ... so ...

Most programmers write at, say, the level of L3.
They might write something like:

   mem [foo].head = something

My "raising the semantic level" would be:

#define HEAD(x).  mem [x].head
   ...
HEAD (foo) = something

With a fair set of macros like that (HEAD, TAIL, etc), the program is now
effectively written in a "new" language, L2 (a higher level language than
L1).

Being written in L2, the resulting code is more readable to everyone,
partially because they aren't continually seeing the implementation of how
".head" / "mem" work/interact.

In effect, the programmer has added a feature (linked list handling,
perhaps) to L3 ... for that particular program, seemingly extending/raising
the level of the language.

It's that concept that I thought I saw sometime in the early 1970s :)

thanks,

Stan

On: raising the semantic level of a program

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Not hardware ... but an antique software / programming concept.

Some decades ago (circa late 1970s?), I *think* I came across a concept of
"raising the semantic level" of a program by using defines/macros and newly
written library functions.  The concept was that a given language provided
a particular level of semantics.  By judicious/clever use of things like
macros, one could "raise" the level of semantics, effectively appearing to
add new features to the language (or, in this case, the instance of the
language as used in the program).

I *thought* I got that concept from Terry Wingrad's excellent "Breaking the
Complexity Barrier again" (Nov, 1974,
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/951761.951764 )
...but, no.  It's not in that paper.

Does the concept ring a bell?

Can anyone provide a pointer to where I might have seen it?

It's formed the basis of my own personal programming philosophy for nearly
50 years, and I want to know where I found it, or if I might have thought
of it myself.

thanks!

Stan

Origin of 3-D printing (again)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Back in 2017, I posted something about seeing a possible first-ever
reference to the idea of 3-D printing in a 1951 issue of Galaxy Science
Fiction magazine.

I stumbled over an even earlier one tonight...

The September, 1941, issue of Astounding Science Fiction magazine has a
story called "Elsewhere" by Caleb Saunders (a pseudonym of Robert A.
Heinlein).  On page 118 we see:

[They used] a single general type of machine to manufacture almost
anything.  They fed into it a plan which Igor called, for want of a better
term, the blueprints.  It was, in fact, a careful scale model of the device
to be manufactured;  the machine retooled itself and produced the artifact.
A three-dimensional pantograph, Igor called the machine, vaguely and
inaccurately.  One of them was, at that moment, molding the bodies of
fighting planes out. of plastic, all in one piece and in one operation.


Stan

Re: History is hard

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

I accidentally attributed text from Liam as being from Fred C,
""MS-DOS 3.3 did not even come with a disk cache."

Sorry Fred!

Stan

Re: history is hard

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Fred writes:
   ..."MS-DOS 3.3 did not even come with a
disk cache."
and discusses problems with SMARTDRV (in MS DOS 4.01 and later).

I'm not sure if it was technically a form of caching, but the AmigaDOS
delayed floppy write (well before MS-DOS cache) caused enormous problems
for Amiga users.  (It may well have contributed significantly to the lack
of market success.)
Basic problem: you save something to a floppy, and pull it out.You now
have a corrupted floppy.  You needed to wait a few seconds for the OS to
decide "well, looks like I better flush the last few dirty sectors out to
that floppy".

(I contend it was a form of write caching, designed to speed writing to
floppies where writing tended to occur in nearby places.)

Stan

Re: One of Bay Area's last Fry's Electronics stores closes

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Re:


> Subject: One of Bay Area's last Fry's Electronics stores closes
> ...
> Palo Alto Fry?s closing <
> https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-locations-Frys-Electronics-closed-14939907.php>
> .
>

Wow, how important little words are!

The URL for the SFGate article is misleadingly
   "...Bay-Area-locations-Frys-Electronics-closed"
... which is wrong.

The CCtalk thread is
   "One of Bay Area's last Fry's Electronics stores closes"

The original SFGate article's title (click on link above to see) is:
   "One of Bay Area's few Fry's Electronics stores closes"

Each means something different.  ("one of...last" is more dire than "one of
...few").
Isn't English interesting?

Keep that in mind while reading political reporting, too :)

Stan

Re: LISP implementations on small machines

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

David...where did you use Lisp on a B6700?

Bill Gord and I wrote the first INTERLISP interpreter for the B6700 back
around
1974-1975, on a DARPA contract, at UCSD.  (At the start, it was to
implement BBNLISP,
but the name changed during the project :)

DARPA found that researchers using INTERLISP (or others) on Dec PDP10s (and
similar) were hampered by the limited address space (256K virtual memory).
The B6700 offered a significantly larger address space (and many other
features, of course :)
(I know our LISP got distributed to other Burroughs sites in those days,
just like our STARTREK and Bob Jardine's SOLAR.)

Danny Bobrow (with Xerox PARC at the time) came and helped us get started.
I met Warren Teitelman ... he had no idea that the cover of the
INTERLISP manual was an homage to his last name.  (See:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/interlisp/Interlisp_Reference_Manual_Oct_1974.pdf
 )

We got our system up and running, including DWIM and other packages, and
were told ... oops, DEC figured out how to expand the amount of virtual
memory on the PDP-10, so we don't need to buy Burroughs mainframes now!

Our INTERLISP was a full interpreter, and also had a compiler to LISP
p-code, which might have inspired UCSD Pascal's p-code (Ken Bowles was our
boss).

I believe I have the source, in Burroughs ALGOL.

As a side bonus, I got to interact with Danny, and people from PARC and BBN
as we were watching other UCSD Computer Center people put the B6700 on the
ARPANET.  (I think we were something like the 25th computer.)

Stan Sieler

Re: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

HP3000-L is a mailing list for people using, or interested in, the HP 3000
computer from Hewlett-Packard.
Created when it was still on sale, now, it's an antique ... but there are a
lot of them out there being used by various companies.
One company I know has over one THOUSAND users log on every day.

At one point, HP3000-L and comp.sys.hp.mpe were mirrors of each other, but
I suspect the link between the two is long gone.

If you want to look at posts to it, or subscribe, or search it:
   https://raven.utc.edu/cgi-bin/WA.EXE?A0=HP3000-L

There are about 340+ subscribers.

Note: HP3000-L may be going away in the near-medium future, probably to be
replaced by a google group.
(The site hosting hundreds of mailing lists is moving to a new server, new
listserv program, and is trying to
cull lists that no longer have a connection with their university, and
HP3000-L falls into that category.)

Stan


On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 7:48 AM David Collins 
wrote:

> “3000-L” ?  Is that another group?
>
>
>
> > On 29 Sep 2019, at 9:27 am, Stan Sieler via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Lee writes:
> >
> >> This is a *very* nice entry-level HP3000/MPE system based on PA-RISC
> >> architecture. But one note - the 917 had the soldered TOD battery on the
> >> motherboard, vs. the FRU TOD battery in the later 918. Not a reason to
> skip
> >> if you are interested in this machine.
> >
> >
> > True, there's been some discussion of that over on HP3000-L.
> >
> > IIRC, it's still possible to boot even if the battery is dead ...
> > boot to the ISL> prompt, run clkutil, set the date, then exit to ISL>,
> > then run 'START'.
> >
> > Stan
>

Re: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

I've had two people contact me saying they're interested.

When the first one came in, I put him in contact with the guy who knows the
Vacaville HP3000 owner.

I let the second person know they were next on the list (had the second
come in before I attended to the first, I'd have sent both names over).

Does the list have a suggested etiquette for this?

thanks,

Stan

Re: HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Lee writes:

> This is a *very* nice entry-level HP3000/MPE system based on PA-RISC
> architecture. But one note - the 917 had the soldered TOD battery on the
> motherboard, vs. the FRU TOD battery in the later 918. Not a reason to skip
> if you are interested in this machine.


True, there's been some discussion of that over on HP3000-L.

IIRC, it's still possible to boot even if the battery is dead ...
boot to the ISL> prompt, run clkutil, set the date, then exit to ISL>,
then run 'START'.

Stan

HP3000/917LX available in Vacaville

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

A friend tells me that there is a Hewlett-Packard HP3000/917LX available in
Vacaville (no word as to price, but I suspect it's free ... the owner wants
it to go to a good home).  Reportedly running, with additional "mini-tower"
(PC size or less) of external disks, a DTC (Distributed Terminal
Controller, lets you have up to 32 RS232 terminals attached (depending upon
model of DTC)), and an external tape drive (probably DDS, but I don't know
for sure).

If interested, email me at sie...@allegro.com and I'll put you in touch with
the friend of the Vacaville guy.

thanks,

Stan

Re: IBM Series/1

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

>
> > The hardware is excellent. They have fairly fast processors, and the
> > I/O capacity is great. Reliability is typical IBM.
> >
> > The OS sucks balls. All the balls.
> >
> > Commercially, they were not a success, despite being IBM's first
> > "open" system, in that they invited third party developers. It seems


When I joined HP in mid-1979, the first week I spotted an IBM Series/1
in a small conference room ... with an IBM repairman.  The HP engineers
had apparently blown out a memory board somehow while "looking" at it :)

>From the HP 3000 viewpoint, we weren't worried about the Series/1.

Stan

tape seals?

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

I think someone was looking for tape seals for 9 track tapes, a few weeks
ago.

If they can contact me offline, I have about 20 of varying sizes for
shipping cost or local pickup.

Stan
sie...@allegro.com

Dr. Ken Bowles passed away

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

I missed hearing about this, but Dr. Ken Bowles (father of UCSD Pascal)
passed away Aug 15 of this year.

http://jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/news/news_releases/release.sfe?id=2621

The story misses his important work on mainframes, including getting vector
mode
processing added to the Burroughs B6500 (which then became the B6700).

Stan

Re: Free: flash cards / SRAM cards (PC Card, PCMCIA cards)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

These have been claimed, and two people are in line behind the first person.

thanks.

Stan

Free: IDE Flashdrive 3.5"

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Still cleaning my storage/office ...

I have a new-looking 3.5" solid state drive for free,
pickup in Cupertino (or pay for packing/shipping via PayPal).

SanDisk 3.5" Flashdrive   20 MB  (IDE)
model: SB35B-20
(possibly unused; in anti-static bag, seal unbroken)

thanks,

Stan

Free: flash cards / SRAM cards (PC Card, PCMCIA cards)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Free for pickup in Cupertino (or, pay for packing/shipping via PayPal):

Some PC Card memory/flash-drive cards...
not tested (Oddly, my 2016 Mac Pro Laptop has no PC Card slot! :)
(no, really, I don't recall getting a chance to test them when I bought
them over the last 10+ years, either, sorry!)

5 items:

PMC SRAM Card 2 MB  P/N SM002M-NN (needs CR2325 battery, no sign of
corrosion)

Fujitsu 64KByte SRAM Memory Card   (ICMC v4.0)

Intel FLASH Series 2 10 MByte Memory Card (1993)

Simple Technologies (new in box) FLASH Storage ATA-800MB
Type I PCMCIA
P/N STI-ATAFL/800

Simple Technologies (new in box) FLASH Storage ATA-800MB
Type I PCMCIA
P/N STI-ATAFL/800

First one to ask, via offline email to sie...@allegro.com, gets them.

As usual, I'll notify the first couple of responders personally.

thanks,

Stan

Free: IBM Travelstar 8E External Hard Drive

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Free (pickup in Cupertino, or pay for packing/shipping via PayPal).

IBM Travelstar 8E External Hard Drive.
New in box.
Includes the PCMCIA card and cable.

Model: DTZN-0810SP
Capacity: 8,100 MByte

Note: as sold new by IBM, including the instruction sheet which says:
power is provided by the PC Card, no A/C adapter is needed,
and that you should ignore the green power switch on the box.

First offline *email* to sie...@allegro.com gets it.

thanks,

Stan

HP 260

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,
I have an HP 260 that I'd like to find a new home for.
I'm currently thinking of taking it to the ham radio / antique-computer
swapmeet
(ASVARO, held at Fry's Sunnyvale, CA, tomorrow morning).

Thought I'd mention it here in case someone was interested in it.

For those unfamiliar with it, it's small enough to fit in a Contico.
https://www.facebook.com/hp260hp250preservationProject has a photo (in a
cabinet
with a disk drive) on the far left.
www.hp260.net has some info about them.

Stan

(Cupertino, CA, USA)

HP 7980 tape drives

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Anyone interested in three HP 7980 tape drives (9-track, 1600/6250 BPI,
IIRC).
One HP-IB interface, two SCSI interfaces.  Rack mountable.

Most likely local pickup only, in Redwood City.

thanks,

Stan

VAX/VMS & IBM 360 manuals from mid 1980s

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

A friend, probably in Ohio, tells me his father has 3 boxes (about 150
pounds)
of manuals for VAX/VMS and IBM 360 from the mid 1980s.

If anyone's interested in following up, email me and I'll send you the
contact info.

thanks, and Happy New Year!

Stan Sieler

origin of 3D-printing?

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Hi,

Perhaps not quite on topic, but it's antique ... and computer-tech related
...

I just found what might be the first ever reference to the concept of
3D-printing.

In the Decmber 1951 issue of Galaxy Science Fiction magazine is a story
"With These Hands" by
Cyril M. Kornbluth.  In it we see, on page 74:

   "You just pour in your cold-set plastic, the
   nozzles ooze out a core and start crawling over
   to scan — a drop here, a worm there, and it begins
   to take shape."

The text is discussing how a 3D statue is created from multiple photos of a
person.

https://archive.org/details/galaxymagazine-1951-12
(magazine page 74, PDF page 76)

I was wondering if any earlier references to the idea existed.

thanks,

Stan Sieler

Re: RIP: Daniel Bobrow

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

Re:


> From: Tony Aiuto 
> Subject: RIP: Daniel Bobrow
>
> http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nytimes/obituary.
> aspx?n=daniel-bobrow=184794881


I worked with Danny for about a year, around 1974, sometime after UCSD put
its B6700 onto the ARPAnet (we were something like the 35th computer).

The AI community needed a BBNLISP with more addressing space than a DEC-10
could provide, so they came to the king of virtual addressing: the
Burroughs.
We got the contract to implement BBNLISP, and Danny came to oversee.

I remember him typing on a terminal, linking UCSD to about 10 other
computers
on the ARPANET, finally linked back to us ... sending a message to himself.
He was demonstrating the lag time each computer added :)

IIRC, sometime during the project, BBNLISP was renamed INTERLISP.  I still
have the wonderful manual, with the great artwork on the cover.  Warren
Teitelman (the author) doesn't have his name on the cover.  But, the bottom
portion has a guy is operating a meat grinder, with the input being the
letters of "reference manual" in random order, and the output being
"reference manual".  Danny explained that Warren Teitelman hadn't gotten
the joke :)

Danny was funny, quick witted, friendly ... RIP.

Oh, UCSD LISP?  About a week before we released it, DEC (or BBN?) had a
breakthrough and increased the addressability of their virtual memory,
obviating the need for our version :(

Stan Sieler

>
>