Re: VCF west is happening this weekend
On 8/5/21 5:57 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote: It will be at the CHM. The museum is still closed but VCF will be happening. To be consistent with current Santa Clara covid conditions, bring your mask. see: https://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ I hope to see you all there. Bought my two day ticket a few weeks ago. Digging up some goodies for the consignment room now - Tek 454 & Dumont scopes, an Altos 5, an HP Z80 emulator, who knows what else will find it's way into the car... Plan to get there tomorrow circa 5PM to unload, unless that option's been revoked. --S.
Re: Keyboard storage
On 12/22/20 12:24 AM, Patrik Schindler via cctalk wrote: I’m storing keyboards openly in a shelf, vertical, standing on the small edge. I alternate them front-back so the slope of the keys array is compensating itself. Aside from some dust, the packing density is really good. And on 12/22/20 6:11 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Unfortunately, since I live on a gravel road, dust is a huge problem here, so I need an enclosed solution. "Dishpack" boxes from movers or moving supply stores are one enclosed option, if you store the keyboards on-end as Patrik described. Or try using plastic storage bins with lids from the local Target/Walmart-equivalent. Each costs anywhere from $5-12 depending on size, sturdiness, and the occasional sale. Within the tub/bin the keyboards are arranged on the long edge, rather than flat. If the bin is tall enough, some cardboard allows for a second layer. --S.
Re: The best hard drives??
On 11/16/20 7:27 PM, Richard Pope via cctalk wrote: In the opinions of you experts out there considering reliability being number one on the list with speed be number two on the list what would you folks consider to be the best SATA drives on the market? Not an expert, but I'm as dependent on spinning rust as everybody else... HGST has gotten my vote and a considerable amount of my money over the years. I favored their 2.5" IDE and then SATA drives for ages, back to before they bought the business from IBM. BackBlaze reporting was a factor in switching to HGST/Toshiba 3.5" 3TB drives many years ago from Seagate, when Toshiba was producing the HGST design after some complicated deal splitting up HGST's product lines. More recently I upgraded my main array to HGST He8 drives, and picked up a box of NOS 600GB 2.5" SAS drives for system disks. All of these are used in ZFS raidz2 setups in HP rackmount servers/JBODs 2-3 versions behind current. --S.
Factory Rodent Urine, was Re: Sun SPARCstation LX boot from CDROM?
On 8/30/20 6:32 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: I now wonder if 25+ years ago during production of the CDROM at the Sony factory some rodent relieved itself over one or more PCBs and next morning the PCB got assembled into a CDROM drive. I've heard of "factory rust" and "factory oil leaks," but never before have I run across the concept of "factory rodent urine..."
Network gear that supported StarLAN 1 (not 10)
I was wondering if anybody remembers which networking vendors supported StarLAN 1, or 802.3e / 1Base5, back in the 1980s? Hoping to get product names and/or model numbers. I've come across some references to Western Digital, Micom-Interlan, Cross Comm Corp (Massachusetts), and Fox Research (later DCA?) possibly having offered products to bridge StarLAN to Ethernet. But in the few cases where I've seen a model (ex. Cross Comm 487 Series) I haven't been able to get past blurbs in Info World. I have one host interface, expect more to arrive shortly, and would love to track down a bridge/switch/router that might allow me to make them reachable from Ethernet. Thanks, --Steve.
Re: Ok, got the Perq tapes
On 04/26/2020 16:33, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Ok, so this evening I went back to the house to do a quick evacuation of the most critical stuff and take some better pictures. This time I brought a massive xeon flashlight which helps to get quicker pictures with less shake. Thank you for doing this and for sharing the photos! Pics 276 & 277 feature a two-enclosure Dynabyte Business Computers system. I wasn't sure of the manufacturer but you can just make out the address zooming in to one of the labels, and the BYTE, and that's enough for Google to do the rest. Oh, well 278 has a very readable DYNABYTE label, albeit with a different address. Heh, looks like that BA11-VA made it into the... Say, is that a 928? Nice, this load is traveling in style! And the sharkmouth sticker makes more sense. (I've made more than one rescue pickup in a 944S or 968 over the years.) --S.
Re: LINC-8
On 04/26/2020 13:38, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: Wow: https://www.ebay.com/itm/353062352448 I've read manuals for these, but I've never even seen a picture of one before. They had one of these in use at the William Penn Charter School (K-12 prep school) in Philadelphia through the early 1980s. When in use, I believe it was paired with a Teletype, I would guess a 33 variant but the memories are fuzzy. I mis-remembered the name for years as a LINC-5 -- understandably confusing to folks who usually expressed polite disbelief when I would describe it... It was left in the "computer room" (e.g. large closet) and neglected after the last class using it graduated, while younger students were exclusively using the handful of Apple IIs sharing the space. I'm afraid the LINC was picked apart by bored students, who liked to pull out Flip Chips, glance at the components on them, and let the cards pile up in the bottom of the rack... Then it disappeared over break or summer vacation one year, don't recall which. --S.
Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 64, Issue 3
On 01/05/2020 07:02, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
OS/2 was to be morphed into a cross-platform o/s,
>> to wean folks from dos/x86.
>
True, but what few remember now is that as well as OS/2 1 (80286) and
OS./2 2 (80386), there was also OS/2 3 (CPU-independent). It was
initially developed for Intel i810 RISC boxes, the N-10 series, so it
was renamed OS/2 NT and later Windows NT... and here we are with it
running on a billion computers.
Just to clarify, the reference to "i810 RISC" should be the i860
("N-10"), their second general-purpose RISC design - versus the 960MX
from the BiiN project with Siemens in the mid-80s as their first (?),
which would become the i960 that was popular in embedded applications.
--S.
Re: PBXes at home
On 09/19/2019 19:27, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: A number of years ago I picked up a Lucent Merlin Legend system. ... Around 2000 I picked up an expanded Nortel Compact ICS (CICS) with voice mail unit - might be the last thing I bought from a NetNews post. That was 8 analog CO lines and 24 extensions as received, with a tub of cables, phones, buttons, die-cut un-printed inserts, a few manuals, etc. Overkill for a four bedroom house with attached office, but it gave me all the features I wanted as a remote worker. I had the music on hold wired up, but stopped using it after one occasion where I put a staff meeting conference call on hold... When I finally acquired an ISDN line card years later I was very excited, but then I moved cross country before I put it into service. Maybe I should have tried to order ISDN at the new place but it was late 2005, and my DSL Internet service included an analog loop with free calling nationwide... Still using the CICS, having upgraded some handsets (M7310 -> T7316e) and the system software. --S.
Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question
On 08/15/2019 23:21, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: I have on several occasions posted appeals to this list for people to contribute content to it, and gotten almost no response (with one notable exception), in terms of added content; that was a large part of why I merely mentioned it in an offhand way. I don't want to discourage anybody from contributing to this or any other project. However... Imagine if you will that many people, over many years, put a lot of work into pulling information together on a site with forums, and then distilling that information into a lot of wiki pages. Many discussions in the forums, with hard-won facts and interesting projects documented there. Things the manufacturer(s) never admitted you could do! So many wiki pages carefully explaining things, recording specifications, procedures, configurations, part numbers, substitutions. An incredibly useful resource and a very active community. Then imagine that a law is passed in a far away land, and the site owner decides it's is too risky to bother with, and they then take the entire site down - wiki and fora - with no warning and no access to the material... I'm not arguing against community collaborations at all - I guess I'm mostly just venting my considerable spleen. :( But I would strongly suggest that if people are going to do something of the scale you describe, they might want to consider setting up a distribution or replication mechanism at their earliest convenience. --S.
Re: VCF West?
On 07/30/2019 23:43, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? (other than Apple oneS) Isn't it scheduled for this coming weekend? On Tuesday a colleague at $WORK reposted the Hackaday announcement, and he's far from the ccmp crowd. So word is getting around a little bit. Evan's blog post didn't include a link to buy tickets, though the full event page does. They are being handled through EventBrite: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/vintage-computer-festival-west-tickets-63097131218 Exhibit list looks nicely varied, though it would have been nice to see an exhibit and/or talk about Bill Godbout and the role he played. (Yeah yeah, I can already hear somebody saying, "DIY!") --S.
Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 06/28/2019 11:11, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Canada also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with coins (26.5mm and 28mm, resp.). Oh, I know. I was questioned by the RCMP for spending a $2 bill that was in my leftover Canadian cash from a previous trip years before. Two weeks ago I was in London, and had brought my pound notes/coins from a visit a few years earlier. When trying to buy lunch, the cashier refused my £10 note since new £5 and £10 notes had been issued over a year before. I was advised I could change it at a bank... So the next day I stopped at a Metro Bank outlet on my way to our local office, but was told they'd only change notes for account holders -- which I can guarantee you I will now never be. But I was told I could go to the Bank of England and they'd change it. The BoE was probably only 20 minutes away by Tube, but I wasn't trying to turn this exchange into a side-quest. :^/ I still have the £10 note. In theory I might be able to exchange it by snail mail, but haven't looked into it yet... --S.
Re: Process accounting - did anyone ever use it?
On 05/31/2019 08:58, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: On 5/30/19 11:57 PM, Warner Losh wrote: I had it enabled on my FreeBSD boxes and got monthly usage stats. I did it to make sure that there were no weird users with time, and that the typical usage was "what I expected". Never detected anything amiss with this, and at some point I retired all those old boxes and with them the monthly reporting email. This use case seems similar to what I did with disk quotas, or at least why. Sort of a safety measure / monitoring. Not actually using it for (internal funny money) billing purposes. I believe I've heard about a couple instances where PA was used for health checks, load distribution, etc for "web-scale" applications on thousands of servers running Linux. ISTR in one case it was only enabled when needed for tracking down an issue? But this is hearsay, I'm not involved in any of the above projects/apps. But no, not for chargeback so far as I know. I only saw that sort of use in academia similar to what others have mentioned - departmental budgeting, grant accounting, etc. --S.
Re: Nat Semi 16032 info discovered
On 04/29/2019 09:30, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: I just found a binder with about an inch of fanfold printouts of all the device drivers, low-level system routines, boot loaders, etc in c source format. So, it might be tricky to scan and OCR it without training the OCR. Not sure anybody would be interested in it, anyway. Well, I have an abiding interest in the Nat Semi 32k series. I'm not connected to it, but the website http://cpu-ns32k.net seems to indicate there are others. So I'd say the code is worth trying to preserve, as I don't know how much source code of any kind related to Genix and the systems it ran on might still be out there... --S. PS - If anybody's got ns32k hardware, I'm interested... ;)
Re: Refillable spray can
> Looks like a great idea but the reviews say otherwise. Dangerous even. > How about a cheap airbrush kit? Reminds me of something I picked up years back, and haven't seen another of - a rechargeable compressed air sprayer. Works more or less like the disposable "canned air" sprayers you get by the half dozen at Fry's or Microcenter, complete with the plastic straw to direct the air. But this one had a bicycle pump valve on the bottom so you could refill it as needed. I've taken a superficial look or three over the years, but haven't found another. And I've mislaid the one from years back, so I don't have a brand or product name. Anybody have a line on that sort of thing? Maybe what Fred linked will serve... --S.
gcc-1.34 source?, was Re: old gcc #pragma handling
On 01/29/2019 14:53, Christian Groessler via cctalk wrote: But I cannot find gcc 1.34. ftp.gnu.org has gcc-1.30.atari (where the sequence doesn't exist), and gcc-1.35 (where it's "#if 0"ed). Does anyone know where to find the source code of gcc 1.34? I'm not positive that this is "pure" gcc 1.34, and not altered for this "Cross compiling environment to DJGPP v1" project on SourceForge, but it's the only source I could find: https://sourceforge.net/projects/crossdjgppv1/files/GNU%20Source/gcc-1.34.tar.bz2/download Contents of the README in the tarball: This directory contains the version 1.34 test release of the GNU C compiler. All bugs reported for previous test releases have been fixed. Some bugs surely remain. See the file gcc.texinfo for installation and porting information. The file INSTALL contains a copy of the installation information. The GNU C compiler is free software. See the file COPYING for copying permission. Good luck, --S.
Re: Books available ACM CALGO Vols I, II, III, loosleaf+microfice
Hi Chuck, On 10/30/2018 09:15, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Anyone interested in three hardbound volumes of ACM CALGO, starting with Algorithm 1, plus a large looseleaf binder and assorted microfiche (assuming that I can still find them)? Drop me a line if so. Sure, I'm curious. When you unearth them, I'd provide a home. Be advised I'm heading to Japan for two weeks on Saturday, so I may ask that they be shipped to my office (well, I might do that anyway...). LMK, --S. -- Steven M Jones CRASH Computing e: s...@crash.com
Re: 70's computers
On 10/29/2018 05:28, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: Does anyone know why they didn't catch on? Was it something like 'commodity 'ordinary' processors became so cheap one could build large parallel machines out of them, and each node had a lot more computing capability', or something like that? My best recollection as a distant observer, for the neural/cognitive modeling it was conceived for, there weren't enough labs with enough grant money to support the company. And as part of the "general" supercomputer segment there were limited problems you could address with the original 1-bit CPU model, and producing code for it was a big challenge coming from more traditional systems. A lot of that may have been alleviated with the later designs built on mainstream (SPARC, Alpha) CPUs, but by then I think there were more alternatives chasing those dollars. And the company's, er, management issues were not helping. Some links for further reading: "Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines" - https://www.inc.com/magazine/19950915/2622.html MIT CSAIL "Final Report" - http://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.972/TMC%20Corp.html I wonder how many CM's are still in existence at this point? That's an interesting question. The same challenges for other big iron come into play, including critical dependence on a FEP from Symbolics, DEC, Sun, HP, etc. --S.
Re: ISO: Blue (usually) Silicone? tape retainer material
On 08/07/2018 18:54, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: I recall that new tapes would often come with a strip of (usually blue) silicone-ish tape ... Yes, I remember those. Don't have a source for exactly equivalent material, but you might be able to use 3-5 mil sign vinyl if you could get it without the adhesive on one side. I think I've seen it in kids' toys of the era, where various patterned pieces were cut from the stuff and assembled on something akin to a whiteboard. The brand I'm remembering from the 1970s was Colorforms. Apparently still a thing. The www.colorforms.com site is alive. --S.
Re: LISP microcode for an 11/730? Was Re: Modifying microcode
On 06/15/2018 08:28, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote: > I wasn't able to find a reference to back it up, but ... Sorry for the delay - that was stuck in my Outbox over a two week business trip...
LISP microcode for an 11/730? Was Re: Modifying microcode
On 06/02/2018 11:08, Robert Armstrong via cctalk wrote: I've heard a persistent rumor over the years that the WPS/8 and PDP-8 software group at DEC had modified the 730's microcode to support a PDP-8 emulation [...] I wasn't able to find a reference to back it up, but if we're sharing faintly remembered rumors -- I recall hearing that some grad students had developed alternate microcode for the 11/730 to re-purpose it as a LISP machine. I use the lowercase "M" on purpose, I don't recall that it emulated the various 36-bit machines known as LISP Machines specifically. Just that it was a native LISP execution environment of some kind. That's all I've got. Not even an institution, though I have a very tenuous notion that UMass Amherst might have been mentioned... --S.
Re: Unix-PC
On 03/23/2018 14:32, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: I will take it if no one else does, but where is it, missed this thread Most recent reference I could find was May 2017: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2017-May/034691.html Bill appears to be located near Scranton, PA. If I were within a couple hundred miles, I'd be writing to him instead of the list... ;) Good luck, --Steve.
Re: 8" floppy drives from AMD development system?
On 02/07/2018 08:46, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: AMD made a whole Multibus product line covered in http://bitsavers.org/pdf/amd/multibus in particular AMD_Multibus_OEM_Products_May84.pdf Spot-on, thanks Al! Pictured on page 3-2 (aka 95 in xpdf). When in doubt, check Bitsavers... ;)
8" floppy drives from AMD development system?
Anybody notice this eBay auction? https://cgi.ebay.com/itm/222816138475 I'd guess it was part of a packaged AMD development system, maybe somebody recalls some specifics...? Or maybe that it was something else? Google is returning a lot about Age-related Macular Degeneration, and other misses where they helpfully turn "AMD" into "and" ... Thanks, --S.
Re: CX laser printers (Was: Sun3 valuations?
On 01/22/2018 11:14, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: For a brief while, the LaserWriter was the fastest, most powerful computer in Apple's limeup. If you are crazy enough, You can communicate directly with it and program in Postscript (similar to Forth) Heck, it was faster than the Macs, PCs, and the VAX-11/750 we had! At least for one storage-free job at a time. A few of my fellow students (hello D Fischer) who fiddled with Postscript would download jobs to compute and print fractals that would run overnight on the printer... and much of the following day, in some cases. --S.
Bringing up the Sprite OS (Berkeley)
I'm not sure where one might normally expect to discuss research operating systems from the 1980s and 90s, but since it ran on Sun-2 through Sun-4 and DECstations, I'll start here. I have the Sprite disk image for the DECstation 5000/200 running under GXemul (see https://github.com/OSPreservProject/sprite), but this is a minimal ~80MB image. I'm wondering if anybody has already gone through the exercise of figuring out how to create a new disk image large enough to, for example, load the source tree and see how far it is from compiling. My calendar is full until mid-December, so I won't be taking a swing at this in the next few weeks. But I had a moment and thought I'd start asking if anybody's been down this road in the past decade or two. Thanks, --S.
Re: Tubbs fire consumed the collected archives of William Hewlett and David Packard
General comment to several earlier replies re: Bitsavers-type efforts. The tragedy here is not that some copies of uncommon but otherwise extant product documentation were lost. From the description, there were a large number of unique, individual documents created by significant historical figures. Fair bet that many of these didn't exist anywhere else. Certainly not if it included drafts of speeches and correspondence, as well as the final copy, etc. A better question (not that it does any good to ask it now) is why this stuff wasn't in the hands of university conservators or similar. I love bitsavers and warchive.org, but this is a level beyond what they typically focus on. (And to be sure, CHM would have at least kept such artifacts safe even if they couldn't do anything with them for a few years/decades.) Sigh. And I don't really mean to criticize anybody at Keysight, humans are generally bad at recognizing and planning for this kind of contingency - and I'm probably worst than most... --S.
Re: A Mystery
On 10/10/2017 12:17, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: > > The /RC was (apparently) for "Reduced Connectivity" or some such. The RC stood for Restricted Configuration. (I didn't remember it correctly either.) https://books.google.com/books?id=Sr4cRFxEX7QC=PA15=5XAty8lkUd=VAXstation%20II%2FRC=PA15#v=onepage=false There were heated debates about whether this was blatant contempt for and cheating of the customer, or a reasonable tactic that enabled DEC to offer a useful product at a market-expanding lower price-point than it could have justified otherwise. I'm sure somebody spelunking in Google/Deja News or deep in DECUS' NOTES-11 boards could find several passionate exchanges... > The smarter customers noticed that they could save a good chunk of cash > by ordering a VS2/RC and then separately ordering a replacement backplane. > DEC noticed that one quite quickly! Indeed they did. And whatever DEC might have done to counter it, like threatening your field service contract or hiking parts prices, you had other options. One example, a Zoltech replacement backplane for $269 in 1987: https://books.google.com/books?id=M8uwmICKZwMC=PP74=-WZxlHuUOt=VAXstation%20II%2FRC=PP74#v=onepage=VAXstation%20II/RC=false On 10/10/2017 12:51, allison via cctalk wrote: > > Memory says: it was MICROVAX/RT and the cpu had a reduced instruction > set and was used with ELN/PASCAL. IT was a reduced capability > machine. As I recollect it used the same KA630/M7606, and any peripherals were the same as other Mayflower machines. The entire gimmick was that you had three fewer Q/Q slots and an RC on the badge. Therefore no difference in the level of ISA subsetting, but I think it would have been an attractive target for VAXELN applications. ISTR there were later products that were limited to VAXELN, but can't recall any designations... --S.
VCF West: 90's Workstations On Consignment for $5 each
I've loaded up the car and will be putting the following in the Consignment Room at VCF West in the morning. These were all rescued from Mesa Electronics a couple months ago. I'm asking for a $5 donation to VCFed for 24 of these items, just to support the event (one is free). There are multiple examples of most of these: - Personal DECstation 5000/25 (MIPS) - DECstation 5000/1xx (MIPS) - DECstation 5000/240 (MIPS) - DEC 3000/300 (Alpha) - DEC 3000/400 (Alpha) - DEC 3000/600 (Alpha) - HP 712/80 (PA-RISC) - HP 715/80 (PS-RISC) - IBM POWERstation 230 (RS/6000) Hope to see you there, --Steve.
Re: post from classiccmp.org: Dr. Dobb's Developer Library DVD 6
On 07/17/2017 14:36, John Greve via cctalk wrote: > > Did you ever find a usable source? I never did find an ISO image of DDJ DVD 6. I had found numerous torrent links too, but none that I checked were still retrievable. Haven't checked the link(s) Graham Toal offered. --S.
Re: FTGH clear-out at Mesa Electronics, Richmond, CA, USA
>> Link to some photos I took: >> https://www.flickr.com/... > > The link is 404 for me. > will look for the other post. Sigh. Looks like default permissions weren't "public", but Flickr/Yahoo is also suggesting this heretofore alien URL format: https://www.flickr.com/gp/smj_crash/4bgzj2 Seems to work, though it looks like it's just a redirect to a more common format... YMMV, --S.
Re: FTGH clear-out at Mesa Electronics, Richmond, CA, USA
Sorry, forgot - Alphas! Two DEC 3000 model 400, one DEC 3000 model 600, one DEC 3000 model 600S, and an AlphaServer 600 IIRC. VAXserver 3300 VAX 4000 model 300 DECtalk DTC01 numerous DEC BA42 DEC "leprechaun" boxes (think VAXstation 2000) Mac 7200/90 5-10 color CRTs - VRT19, VR299, VR290 Couple smaller HP-badged Trinitrons TEK 454 Summasketch 2 w/ cursor Many cables, disks, other random bits!
No food/drinks in the terminal room, was Re: Looking for Apollo Workstations for TV show
On 03/13/2017 14:09, js--- via cctalk wrote: > > ... except > some of the actors have a penchant for putting food or beverages on top > of various units which -- I don't know about you -- makes me fidgety. In other words, the same penchant -- and response -- as when these units were new... Some things never change. ;) --S.
Joking, was Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?
On 01/17/2017 10:58, Alan Frisbie wrote: > > ... getting rid of all the stuff > I accumulated over my almost 50 years in the computer industry. I > have three rental storage units full of stuff and the cost is > killing me! Is it OK to post ads on this list? No, no it isn't! Best you send me a private message about the items you wish to get rid of, and I'll make sure only the "appropriate" ones are forwarded to the list... :D
Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?
On 01/10/2017 14:09, Andy Cloud wrote: > > I thought this would be an interesting question to ask around - What's the > rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? Rare and unusual? That disqualifies a lot of things that are neat, maybe uncommon, but mainstream. Wicat S-2000 server. Wicat developed a neat blend of UNIX and VMS for their systems based on the M68k family. One of the Omron LUNA 88k workstations used for Mach development at CMU. One Omron label on back has "Prototype #" printed in the "S/N" field, with "012" hand-written next to it. But another, more complete label that identifies it as a "3W4SX-9100/DT8816N Multi Processor Work Station" has "S047" as the serial number. Three Nat Semi ICM-3216 board sets from the University of New Brunswick. Two in large custom-built enclosures were used for timesharing, and one in a PC-style case was used for systems programming projects. If any of the disks could be coaxed, I'm not sure if I'd find SysV or GENIX. One of CompuPro's 32016 S-100 cards. Have the standard CompuPro board documentation, but no software. Two Nat Semi ICEs for the 32016, and I think software for a VAX/VMS host, somewhere. --S.
Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]
On 01/15/2017 08:23, Al Kossow wrote: > > > On 1/14/17 7:20 PM, allison wrote: > >> If the 32016 had a second generation > > It had several generations. The 32532 saw some use in laser printers. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS320xx This kind of "buries the lead," however -- the NS32532 inspired the pc532 by George Scolaro and Dave Rand at the very end of the 1980s. This very capable and fairly complex design was freely available, right down to the Gerber files and PAL equations. Dave and George had previously worked on a PC/AT coprocessor board using the 32016 for Definicon. The pc532 eventually supported MINIX, Mach, and NetBSD ports. Phil Budne and some others on this list participated - I could only afford to cheer from the sidelines... NatSemi reworked various 32k chip designs into versions for embedded use, eventually. The 32cg16, based on the 32016, had a healthy run in printers for several years before the 32gx32 came along. Off the top of my head, I can only recall the pc532 and the later model of ETH's Ceres workstations as examples of "single-user" machines using the '532. And of course if anybody wants to get rid of one, I'd be happy to oblige... ;) Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC532 http://www.netbsd.org/ports/pc532 http://cpu-ns32k.net/index.html --S.
Looking for Dr. Dobb's Developer Library DVD 6
Greetings all, I always figured I'd order one of the compilations of Dr. Dobb's Journal on CD/DVD One Of These Days... Then they went and stopped publication. While a lot of DDJ content is still online at drdobbs.com, I'd still like to pick up that DVD. So like the Subject says, I'm looking to acquire a copy of this last version of said compilation. Thanks, --Steve.
Re: Archived viruses, was Re: Reasonable price for a complete SOL-20 system?
On 10/21/2016 18:22, william degnan wrote: > > Stoned Monk is still detectable by modern anti virus software, 25 or > whatever years later, at least last time I tested using a win 7 machine. > So, that was maybe 4 or 5 years ago. Well, glad to hear there's nothing to worry about. Like I said, not an area I've had to deal with (not since the 80s/early 90s, anyway). Thanks for indulging me. --S.
Archived viruses, was Re: Reasonable price for a complete SOL-20 system?
On 10/21/2016 14:15, william degnan wrote: > Any disk or archive you come upon from the early 90's should be scanned for > viruses before use on a vintage machine. USe a modern PC as it's no biggie > to clean old viruses that way. Scan before you use on an older machine, > scan inside of ZIP files not just the zip itself. There were three viruses > that I found years ago on the most-often seen Maslin archive set. Old > stuff that's not an issue for modern machines. I didn't think modern A/V products included complete historical sets of signatures. I'm sure they can deal with ancient, simple bootloader infections and such, but at some point I'd be concerned there's a gap where something might be too new to be detected by the simplest heuristics, but too old for a more sophisticated signature to be in your common modern products. But this isn't something I've had to deal with. Is this an imagined problem, or has somebody run into this? Thx, --S.
Re: Altos system mislisted on Epay
On 10/16/2016 15:38, Glen Slick wrote: > > Has the one in the listing here had the hard drive platter brutally > removed? Didn't take a close look at all of the photos to be sure. By my previous viewing of the pics in that auction - yes, somebody ripped the platters out of the HDD, breaking the arms the R/W heads were mounted on. Said heads were left dangling. IIRC the auction copy indicated something had been done to the PSU as well. There was a close-up of some wires soldered to some spade lugs, but I don't recall seeing a good photo of the PSU itself. It didn't sell, so there's a good chance it'll be listed again in a few days. They tend to give things a few shots before they stop relisting. --S.
Re: Getting out of the hobby
On 10/15/16 12:49, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > I can read about using arsphenamine > to treat syphilis, for example (historically important), without > contracting the disease and treating it myself just for "the experience". Well, thanks for not drawing a *direct* comparison between those of us still more engaged in collecting and those suffering the debilitating mental effects of syphilis... ;) --S.
Re: Anyone have any info on a Tektronix X221CHT?
On 09/15/16 22:24, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Hi, All, > > I unearthed what appears to be a Tektronix X terminal, marked on the bottom: > > MODEL: X221CHT I'd guess that the human-readable model is probably XP221, though that doesn't lead to a lot via Google. However you might find a usable PSU under eBay #271338697806. Ouch, $80 + S Tek made some very nice X terminals, I worked with them in the '91-'94 period. Announcement of the XP200 line is here: http://goo.gl/4DPXlN (Too early to cover that model, though.) There's a Linux how-to for supporting/booting Tek X terminals that includes the pinouts for the power connection. Good luck with the 16 year old links for software, however... https://web-docs.gsi.de/~kraemer/COLLECTION/NCD/xp200_linux.html Good luck, --Steve.
Subjects, Topics and Threading
On 09/14/16 09:52, Dale H. Cook wrote: > > Please do not change the subject line in a thread. The subject line > of this thread has been changed twice since it began as "68K Macs > with MacOS 7.5 still in production use..." When you change a subject > line the header information concerning the subject is unchanged, > and that is what the list archives and some email clients go by. > There are now three threads concerning different subjects archived > as one thread at classiccmp.org. And what's so horrible about that? I miss entire conversations because somebody starts discussing something I *would* find interesting under a misleading Subject: and never changes it. Oh well - people will do what they do, thank goodness for search... How do you justify making everybody conform to your preferred behavior? Even though I did what you wanted in this reply/new topic. ;) But now nobody can see what I didn't quote from your original message without going off and running a search - isn't that annoying too? --S.
Re: Recovering 4mm tar tapes
On 09/12/16 16:35, Douglas Taylor wrote: > > I tried using different blocksizes with no luck. Debian does have the > mt command and I was able to use it to get the tape status, rewind and > was able to have it move the tape forward a number of records (not sure > what a record is) > > #mt -f /dev/st0 fsr 10 > > worked. But as soon as it skipped anything, it would have rewound to the beginning of the tape... Rather than skipping records, I'd be curious about skipping the first "file" in case you have an EOF mark at the start of the tape. You'd do this with something like "mt -f /dev/nrst0 fsf 1" The previous suggestion of using dd(1) is a good one, maybe you tried the following and maybe not. Use the "mt rewind" command to make sure you're at the beginning of the tape, then use dd with the "no rewind" device, e.g. /dev/nrst0 or nst0. Hit it a couple times just in case there were some bad writes at the start of the tape. % mt -f /dev/st0 rewind % dd if=/dev/nrst0 of=file-1.bin % dd if=/dev/nrst0 of=file-2.bin % dd if=/dev/nrst0 of=file-3.bin ... You may just get zero-length files. Or, maybe you'll get past some damage and get some of your data. Worth a shot, provided the tape isn't shedding oxide... > I guess the cartridge is bad. Possible. It also sounded like your problem tape might be DDS-1, while your other tape might have been a later, higher capacity. Might that be a problem for the drive you have? I haven't tried different density 4mm tapes in drives in ages... --S.
MicroPDP-11/73, was Re: More mystery recycler boards - DEC, Fujitsu(??), Cipher, Emulex
On 09/07/16 05:02, Noel Chiappa wrote: > > The other thing that makes no sense is that the KDJ11-B (M8190) has all that > extra circuitry on it to support PMI, etc - all of which is unused in the > 11/73 application! Why not just plug in a (presumably cheaper) M8192? In Marketing-land, the VAXstation II RC, with epoxy in the factory-unused slots, makes sense... On 09/07/16 07:34, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Don't forget the LTC :-) All in all it saves a decent amount of > backplane space, makes field service easier, and follows DEC's attempts > to integrate as much as possible. Otherwise, you'd need an additional > bootstrap card such as an MRV11-D with -B2 boot ROMs, a DLVE1 (DLV11-JE) > for the SLUs, something with an LTC, and termination. That's at least > twice as many slots in a Q-Q backplane and four slots in Q-CD. I think this makes sense in Engineering-land, good point. ;) Anybody know what the most common actually-shipped configuration of the MicroPDP-11/73 were? BA23, M8190, 1 RAM board, RQDX_, and DLV11? --S.
Re: X server for original PC (8088/8086)
On 08/19/2016 11:08, Chris Hanson wrote: > > Back in the day, did anyone produce an X11 server for DOS-based > 8086/8088 systems, say with support for Hercules or CGA graphics? > Or was that strictly a 286-or-better thing, given the overall > constraints of the 8086 architecture? I realize this pretty divergent from your question, but... ISTR there was a barebones X terminal that used the 8086, but I can't find it via Google. I got to prod at one on some occasion, it was pretty much a joke. Don't recall what might have been under the covers handling the video, but the theme was low-spec. Contrast to the HP 700/X terminals used a combination of 34010 and 80186: Models Display Resolution Planes Processor Coprocessor -- --- -- -- - --- 700/X Grayscale 19" 1024x768 834010/60MHz 80186/16MHz 700/X VGA Color 14" 640x480 834010/60MHz 80186/16MHz 700/X Hi-Res Color 16" 1024x768 834010/60MHz 80186/16MHz ( From SunFLASH Vol 26 #9, Feb 1991 ) --S.
Re: R: HP to acquire SGI
On 08/14/2016 13:08, Ian S. King wrote: > > Grab all the SGI docs/bits you can, before HP sends them to /dev/null and > 404 SGI "retired" their excellent TechPubs system not very long ago when they outsourced customer support, thereby removing all the docs and patches that still covered many of the MIPS-based products of the original company. There are a couple mirrors around in various states of functionality, the one I've been referring folks to is at http://techpubs.jurassic.nl, with thanks to Jan-Jaap. In HP(e)'s defense, they have so far kept an awful lot of DEC and Compaq material online. Perhaps that's by accident as much as intent, but I'm not complaining either way... For instance, I was just perusing (and saving) the DEC Tech Journal from 1991 - 1998, which is archived under the HP Journal (http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/journal.html) and alongside the Tandem Systems Review. --S.
Re: MicroVax II
On 08/02/2016 19:49, Douglas Taylor wrote: > > I had 3 different types of SCSI CDROM's and none of them worked [...] > Is there a SCSI CDROM to look for? That's unfortunate. The DEC badged drives would be ideal, but you should be good with Sun-, HP- or SGI-badged drives, or Plextor and Toshiba drives with a SCSI interface. For the non-workstation vendors, search up the model spec sheets to see if you need to change a jumper or, in unusual cases, cut a trace on the PCB. All this info can be found on (third-party) CD-ROM FAQs for the workstation vendors... > I'm curious about the 68 pin scsi drives, what type do you use? The > adapter, I guess it is 50 pin male to 68 pin male? The 68/80 to 50 pin adapters are straightforward and all over eBay. Be advised that some drives spec'd for Ultra 320 may need a jumper or simply won't behave properly on an 8-bit SCSI bus, but its doesn't seem to be that common. If you're looking for spinning iron, I'd recommend drives using the 80 pin SCA connectors. Checking the labels is best, but as a rule of thumb they tend to be more recent production. However all of them are getting long in the tooth! For physical drives, most recently I've been getting the 2.5" Seagate Savvio drives with the SCA connectors. They tend to "only" be ~10 years old, and the smaller form factor often makes it easier to squeeze them and the coverter board into drive carriers designed for 3.5" devices. Be aware that if you don't know your equipment uses High Voltage Differential (HVD) SCSI, avoid it or things that just say "Differential." It will fry older/slower and Low Voltage Differential (LVD) SCSI gear. Sorry if any/all of that was already known, but I'm avoiding actual work this evening. ;) --S.
Re: MicroVax II (Doug)
On 07/31/2016 11:27, Douglas Taylor wrote: > On 7/31/2016 2:44 AM, Graham Reid wrote: >> >> They were just networked, it wasn't a cluster. > > Do you remember if the networking software was part of VMS 5.5 or was it > a third party? I seem to remember third party TCPIP software, > Multiware, etc. If he meant they just used DECNET, then it basically came with the OS. You might have actually paid extra for it in a commercial setting - I only dealt with educational or hobbyist licensing, and it was included in those instances. By this time I think DEC had released their Ultrix Connection (UCX) TCP/IP and utilities product. It combined the protocol stack, some services and network utilities, and things like a ported Berkeley-style C shell (/bin/csh). Using that last was a mildly odd experience... They later replaced that with TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS. As Bill Degnan pointed out, the "hot ticket" commercial TCP/IP stack in the VMS 5.x era was MultiNet. There was the older CMU/IP package that everybody seemed to want to get off of as soon as something else was available. Process Software had TCPware, which I never encountered in the wild. And of course The Wollongong Group offered a TCP/IP stack along with Eunice (Unix emulator). --S.
DEQNA and VMS 5, was Re: MicroVax II
On 07/29/2016 19:30, Jerry Weiss wrote: > > Note that DEQNA will not work (at all) on either version. > You’ll need a DELQA. On 07/30/2016 08:50, Paul Koning wrote: > > Yes, VMS stopped supporting the QNA at some point because, even > after 12 ECOs, it could not be made to work properly. If I > remember right, the issues showed up mostly in clusters; DECnet > didn't mind so much. The DEQNA was deprecated and for good reason, though you could still use it with many if not most versions of VMS 5.x. And as Paul points out if you're using it for lighter duty, or if it's all you've got, you might as well give it a shot. I was working at MIT in '90-91 and one of the labs (LIDS, I believe) had a cluster of VAXstation 2000s being served by a MicroVAX II. The VAXstations may have had a small local disk, but they were all clustered with if not booting from the MVII. The MVII had a DEQNA, which I discovered meant that when I was doing I-forget-what for them and brought the cluster back up, I had to sequence the booting of the VAXstations. If I booted two of them too close together, the MVII would crash. But it did work, if you'll accept that caveat as "working," and by that time if they were still running (Micro)VMS 4.x it would have stood out. I'm sure I did tell them to get a DELQA, preferably a DELQA-YM, but many of the labs I supported were running on a shoestring, and indentured graduate students to reboot as needed were often cheaper than new hardware... --S.
Re: BA23 fan noise
On 02/01/2016 08:22, Warner Losh wrote: > [...] All you can do about that is to get a smaller fan that can turn more > slowly. If you couldn't tell from the rest of his post, Warner meant "get a larger fan," not "smaller." This is why main PC case fans can now be had in excess of 5" / 12cm. The lurid neon colors are also effective at smoothing out the noise-producing turbulence... ;) > With the BA23 cabinet, your options may be limited as to what you can do > w/o modifications to sheet metal to accommodate larger fans. > > Less air flow is risky business for this old gear that has fewer heat sinks > on the parts, relying on the air flow to carry the heat away. Might be interesting to grab some of the 10mm X 10mm heat sinks commonly sold with adhesive/thermal paste on eBay and strategically place them if they'll clear the board spacing, just to help extend the service life of the ICs...
Terminals in the WC, was Re: TK50/TK70 Info
On 08/28/2015 11:09, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2015-08-28 20:07, Fred Cisin wrote: On Fri, 28 Aug 2015, tony duell wrote: I realised the other day that I do not live in a normal house. Apart from the toilet, every room on the ground floor contains at least one PDP11 (some not set up yet). Nice! The WC only has microcomputers? Terminals... WCs only requires terminals... :-) Seems like this thread should now tie into the discussion of germocidal UV-C lamps in the de-yelowing thread...
SGI Indy available for collection in Sao Paolo, Brasil
I think we've got a few active list members in Brasil, and somebody's got a nicely configured SGI Indy available for collection in Sao Paolo. it has irix 6.2 installed (maybe) and (may still have) Maya and Photoshop 1 with licenses. and medias for irix only. two hdds inside. maxed ram. external cd rom. camera. 24 bit graphics card. (i may be able to find the 8bit card). all cables (scsi, monitor, ...) if anyone want it, must pick it up in sao paulo soon. [...] oh and everything is very, very clean. Original post is at: http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=4t=16729781 Please check the original post for contact details - I have nothing to do with this except for the re-posting. Hope somebody manages to rescue the beast, --S.
Re: Masscomp MC-500 - Re: cctech Digest, Vol 13, Issue 5
On 07/06/2015 16:24, Toby Thain wrote: On 2015-07-06 3:33 PM, Clem Cole wrote: ... One other note about the MC-500. If was the first commercial Multiprocessor UNIX ... display processor, a number of 29000's in the FP and APP's units, more 29000 logic in the Data Acq Unit, ... Pretty cool for early 1980s' Small quibble - If you mean AMD 29K wasn't released until 1988? So those boards must have come later than the MC-500 itself (~1984?) The OP most likely meant 2900 bit-slice -- common in all manner of applications in the early 80s. --S.
Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check
On 06/07/2015 10:02 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: And... All diagnostics pass! Woohoo! Great to hear, well done Mark! I hope one of these days soon I'll join you - my 730 was able to boot the last time I powered it up in the early 90s, but I have no idea what I'll find when I finally amass the necessary round tuits... --S.
