Re: Looking for front panel switch-- front panels

2019-10-06 Thread ben via cctalk

On 10/5/2019 7:28 PM, Charles via cctalk wrote:

Does anyone have a matching switch they're not using? I have a spare 
black lever, but it's supposed to be blue for that nibble which would be 
even better ;)

Thanks for any help.


Surplus is not what it was 40 years ago.
Several people are rehashing the old 8 bit stuff again,in FPGA's
but with CMOS 22v10's you can do a lot of logic for weird machines.
How about a 6/12 bit trinary computer. Switches up/off/down
and leds red/off/green.That would be cool front panel and display.
Ben.
PS: 16 Switches wanted.





Re: LISP implementations on small machines

2019-10-03 Thread ben via cctalk

On 10/3/2019 10:01 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Paul Koning

 > Some early machines, the PDP-6 I believe is an example, have
 > "registers" in the ISA but they actually correspond to specific parts
 > of main memory.

The PDP-6 and KA10 (basically a re-implementation of the PDP-6 architecture)
both had cheapo versions where addresses 0-15 were in main memory, but also
had an option for real registers, e.g. in the PDP-6: "The Type 162 Fast
Memory Module contains 16 words with a 0.4 usecond cycle." The KA10 has
a similar "fast memory option".

Noel

The PDP-5 how soon theyy forget. The PC was in core memory for sure.
Not sure about the AC how ever.
The IBM 1130 had the index registers in Core at something like  1,2,3.

Today Fast memory is .4 ps. I wonder how the old machines
would compare with today's wonder CPU's assuming the same transistor
speeds.Ben.



Re: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned

2019-10-01 Thread ben via cctalk

On 10/1/2019 1:38 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019, ben wrote:

A quick look,  nothing is said about Algol, did you mean Assembler?
what I see is interesting is that LISP is on a 11. I allways thought
LISP only ran on BIGGER machines.


I have the source and binary for KLISP-11 V2 on papertape; available on 
our FTP server.


Christian

Strange Paper tape lasts forver,Digial media is lost after the latest 
server crash. Thank god for the the bitsaver's people and Internet Archive

Ben.




Re: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned

2019-09-30 Thread ben via cctalk

On 9/30/2019 2:43 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:

See Chapter 3, pg. 249 in the PDF.

- Josh


I only  read THE TABLE OF CONTENTS...
I was not expecting a bunch of files all in one big PDF.
I view all my PDFs on my tablet, the screen size fits better
than the WIDE SCREEN CinemaScope* format of todays PC's.
I'll download it and view it later.
Ben.
*Well heading in that direction,



Re: Course materials for MIT 6.031 (c. 1974) scanned

2019-09-30 Thread ben via cctalk

On 9/30/2019 12:50 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:

Thought someone here might find this interesting; I have a binder of
materials describing the entire course (descriptions of the PDP-11/45
DELPHI system, readings, coursework, quizzes, exams (with answers)) for MIT
6.031 "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Languages", 1974.

http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/scans/mit/MIT%206.031%20Structure%20And%20Interpretation%20Of%20Computer%20Languages%201974.pdf


It starts with PDP-11 assembly language, moves on to Algol and LISP and is
over a thousand pages of material.  Get studying!

- Josh



A quick look,  nothing is said about Algol, did you mean Assembler?
what I see is interesting is that LISP is on a 11. I allways thought
LISP only ran on BIGGER machines.
Ben.



Re: Raymond Check discusses MS DOS Floppy Disk Cache

2019-09-24 Thread ben via cctalk

On 9/24/2019 1:40 PM, Christian Liendo via cctalk wrote:

I meant to say Raymond Chen and it didn't notice the spell check change

Sometimes modern technology sucks.

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 3:18 PM Christian Liendo  wrote:


How did MS-DOS decide that two seconds was the amount of time to keep
the floppy disk cache valid?

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190924-00/?p=102915



Well I am guessing, the time the flopppy motor was kept on after
a block read/write. Ben.





Re: sa...@elecplus.com

2019-09-24 Thread ben via cctalk

On 9/24/2019 8:19 AM, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote:

There is an entire process I go through. Paintbrush and vacuum for removing
loose debris. Various cleaners. Ultrasonic cleaner for the caps. It can take
over an hour to really get one looking new again.


Well what is it for cleaners?

Ben.



Re: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

2019-09-17 Thread ben via cctalk

Windows _is_ Bells and Whistles, plus a couple of gongs.


No ... The GONGS is the chinese knock off.





Re: Vulnerabilities (Was: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

2019-09-17 Thread ben via cctalk

On 9/17/2019 1:08 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
I could easily imagine a computer science exam question "Describe in 
one paragraph the specific design error that enabled the Meltdown 
attack".


I used to have some related questions in my microcomputer operating 
systems class.  One student (who later became my best friend and buddy) 
skipped the technical details and said, "The primary design error for 
MacOS and Windoze (sic) is that they placed a lower priority on 
security, than on being able to transparently and without user action, 
add smell-o-vision, dancing kangaroos and yodelling jellyfish."


(YES, that's where I got that phrase from.)


I say the concept of a) Time sharing and B) GUI and c) 8 bit bytes
and D) the C programming language have caused computer architecture
to go to dogs ...

Lets not forget some FORTH chips have been to known to meltdown
without any attacks just unlucky coding.
Ben.
Is true the yodelling jellyfish makes me wait 45 seconds for pop up
window to open after clicking on a menu item like "OPEN FILE"?



Re: Test message

2019-09-13 Thread ben via cctalk

On 9/13/2019 3:00 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:



On 9/13/19 1:44 PM, Senile Old Man via cctalk wrote:


Uninstall and reinstall the OS.


Nice to see this list continues to circle the bowl.


Bare metal machines don't need a OS. Just liner notes
on the drum in felt pen. Bad sector. Core dump from last month.
Boot from here on tuesdays.Reads backwards to emulate tape.
Oil here. WD40 there. Grease Now.








Re: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair

2019-09-10 Thread ben via cctalk

On 9/8/2019 9:54 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 9/8/19 7:41 PM, Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote:


I can't seem to find motor caps that meet the voltage spec of 660V. 8uF
doesn't seem like a problem, but the combination together isn't looking
good. Are there any specific vendors I should be looking at? My usual
suspect of DigiKey isn't looking good.


What capacitance do you require?   For motor start/run capacitors, I
tend to stay away from Chinese ones--they just don't seem to last.

Try googling for "660VAC capacitor".  They don't seem to be terribly
difficult to find.  Amazon even sells them.

--Chuck


Try here.

http://www.surplussales.com/




Re: TRS-80 Fireworks

2019-08-28 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/28/2019 4:50 PM, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote:

Quite normal - the capacitors dry out after about 30 or  40 years - there's 
lots of info around on replacing them with a polymer capacitor. I have over 20 
TRS-80's with a large contingent of Model 3, 4, 4Ps, 12 and 16s - all had the 
same issue so if I acquire one now I do a pre-emptive strike before powering up.

I suspect, cost cutting is also a factor with consumer vs industial 
products for part replacement. Ben.





Re: Shipping from Europe to USA

2019-08-24 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/24/2019 1:25 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote:

With all of the stories. I don't know if it exists internationally but I
think the moral is get insurance with shipper.


I thought it was DRIVE your own FORKLIFT.
So how did the orginal companies like DEC ship thier products?
Ben.


Re: bit-slice and microcode discussion list

2019-08-23 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/23/2019 12:00 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:




On Aug 23, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
wrote:


From: Jon Elson



On 08/22/2019 12:47 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote:



On a possible related note, I am looking for information on converting
CISC instructions to VLIW RISC.



I think it might end up looking a bit like the optimizers that were
used on drum memory computers back in the dark ages.


I dunno; those were all about picking _addresses_ for instructions, such
that the next instruction was coming up to the heads as the last one
completed.

The _order_ of execution wasn't changed, there was no issue of contention
for computing elements, etc - i.e. all the things ones think of a
CISC->VLIW translation as doing.


Instruction ordering (instruction scheduling) is as old as the CDC 6600, though 
then it was often done by the programmer.

An early example of that conversion is the work done at DEC for "just in time" conversion 
of VAX instructions to MIPS, and later to Alpha.  I wonder if their compiler technology was 
involved in that.  It wouldn't surprise me.  The Alpha "assembler" was actually the 
compiler back end, and as a result you could ask it to optimize your assembly programs.  That was 
an interesting way to get a feel for what transformations of the program would be useful given the 
parallelism in that architecture.

paul


Why bother is my view. The problem is Three fold, a) The hardware people 
keep changing the internal
details. b) A good compiler can see the the original program structure 
and optimize for that. c) The flat memory model as from FORTRAN or LISP 
where variables are random over the entire memory space scrambles your 
cache.


With that said if you can make the optimization in defined some sort of 
MACRO format changing parameters would be simple and be effective unseen 
changes. Kind of the the early Compiler Compilers.



I see RISC as emulation of the HARVARD memory model.
A Harvard model would not take  much change in programing other than not 
having a "SMALL" mode. Two 32 bit wide buses (data) (program) could

be faster as external memory is more drum like with filling of caches
rather than random memory than one large data path doing everything.

I still favor the CLASSIC instruction set model. OP:AC:IX:OFFSET
Core Memory made the machines slow with the memory restore cycle, Giving 
rise to CSIC like the PDP 11 to give a better use of that dead cycle.

RISC is only fast because of the PAGE cycle of dynamic memory at
the time.

Too bad everything is all 8/16/32/64+ computing or say a 36 bit classic
style cpu design could run quite effective at a few GHZ.
Ben.










Re: Shipping from Europe to USA

2019-08-22 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/22/2019 11:31 AM, Steven Stengel via cctalk wrote:

How do I ship a 50 pound computer from Europe to the United States? Who has 
good rates?
Thanks-
Steve


Well good packing would double the weight, and how fast do you/they need it?
Ben.




Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/16/2019 12:53 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:


 From what I remember, the detailed analysis involves an "electrochemical 
series", which has metals like sodium at one end, copper closer to the middle, and 
gold at or near the other end.  Metals are compatible if their potential value differs by 
less than a limit.  The limit depends on the environment; in an office you can have a 
larger limit than on a ship where you have salt spray, or a tire factory with lots of SO2 
in the air.

There are also some twists; I think stainless steel is compatible with many things thanks 
to the alloy ("stainless") properties.  In fact, I think the subject came up in 
connection with failure analysis of coin cell battery holders.  The battery cases are 
stainless steel; the question is what contacts are acceptable.  Gold is; there may be 
others but some things that are used in the market are not good choices.

paul

That reminds me, Tubes and More ( https://www.tubesandmore.com ) sell a 
contact cleaner used for vacuum tubes. That may be useful for cleaning 
cards and card edge sockets. Deoxit is the product and comes in assorted

types depending what you are cleaning.
Ben.



Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/16/2019 12:13 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

Dwight,

I spot check boards. I lack sufficiently sensitive instruments to measure
actual thickness (even on a surface plate, it's the same for ENIG as hard
gold with an 0.0001" indicator) but ENIG won't stand up to a few swipes
with an ink eraser, whereas hard gold will stand up to it no problem. The
main issue I've seen, in buying other people's products and projects, is
board houses passing off ENIG as hard gold (and charging for it!) or
claiming they're using "extra heavy ENIG" -- which of course isn't a thing,
because ENIG is an ion swap!

Thanks,
Jonathan


Is gold plating the best thing? I thought that gold plating only works 
best when matching other gold connections.

Ben.



Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/16/2019 1:50 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019, Noel Chiappa wrote:
An additional issue, I think, is that Google is deprecating sites that 
use
HTTP, versus HTTPS. I can't comment more, lest I start ranting at the 
utter


Not true, in contrary, Google even crawls through FTP sites :-)

Christian


Well with me I have been finding with many searches, the modern browsers
refuse to display sites for "what they figure is unsafe" yet the porn 
ads still show. I can find it, but not view it.

Ben.



Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-15 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/15/2019 4:33 PM, Marvin Johnston via cctalk wrote:

Instead of the search engines working to improve AI, they should be 
putting more effort into ESP.




However with 'FREE' web hosting vanishing faster the Dodo,
you have lost most of the Small sites that may of had the
information. A blog tends lose things after the current
year.


Marvin


My other gripe, is technical books tend to revise for the latest
trend in marketing. A fictional book like "Software tools for fools",
Version #1 8008, Version #2 Z80 Version #3 386. Version #4 RISC machine
#5 latest machine available only for Beta testing.
* library has removed books that have not been checked out in the
last 3 years. We can borrow the latest copy when comes in print from the
main branch.
Ben.


Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-14 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/14/2019 12:46 PM, Seth J. Morabito via cctalk wrote:


It's not clear that it's the dynamic nature of the content he's
unhappy with; it might just be that having stuff scattered across a
zillion personal pages (be they blogs, or whatever) is going to make
it hard to find the useful one when needed, and that's why he's
cranky. (Well, more so than he usually is :-)


I agree, this is a very valid complaint.

The sheer vastness of content available, combined with a Google
monoculture, combined with a concerted attempt to GAME the Google
monoculture, is making search and discovery hard. I honestly don't know
what to do about it. I don't have a better idea, unless we go back to
something like a directory-style curated experience, a-la Yahoo! circa
1998-ish. Not that that doesn't have it's own horrible problems, of
course.




!!!THE CLOUD!!! 
YOUR DATA IS IN OUR HANDS. JUST LIKE YOUR SOUL!

My real complant is WEB SEARCHS only match SPONSED items and the latest
buzz words. It gets worse on things like EBAY.
XYZ123 SERIAL card for ABC789 computer might have 1 out of 10
hits that is NOT WINDOWS 64 ...
Ben.



Re: Raspberry Pi write cycles

2019-08-09 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/9/2019 3:43 PM, Adam Thornton via cctalk wrote:


And, you know, if you manage to cause my SD cards in those machines to
fail, well, gosh, guess I'm out $10 or so for a new one.  I'm not bothering
to back up any of the stuff inside 'em, btw (so those of you using 'em,
seriously, save your work elsewhere if it's precious--and, um, yeah, unless
you're on OpenVMS, TOPS-20, or ITS, you don't have a TCP/IP stack and since
you don't have a direct terminal interface into it, that probably means
copying and pasting from the terminal session...but if you have something
you really want off it that's larger than a couple of screens full, just
write me a note and I can likely extract it for you more reasonably).

Adam


Have you looked at industrial sd cards?
Ben.




Re: I'm sharing a toy

2019-08-08 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/8/2019 12:26 PM, Warner Losh wrote:

Even the crappiest of crap SD cards these days aren't that fragile. 
You'd need to swap on the order of GB/s to wear it out that fast. Most 
of the SD cards can handle hundreds of full drive writes. At 128GB, 
you're looking at needing to generate about ~25TB of effective writes 
before you'd wear them out. Even with a crazy 10x write amp (typical is 
2-3), there's no way you'd get that through an interface that's measured 
in the tens of MB/s.


I would agree if it was doing a whole disk.
A swap or scatch space on magnetic media got used alot back then.
Time sharing back then was having 16KW and swapping pages back and forth
from rotating media while reading or writing cards.


Warner


I am not sure of the memory on a PI,but having a good block cache
for the swap segments on disk would useful.

Well the CPU is the easy part. Now what about the front panel. :)

Ben.





Re: I'm sharing a toy

2019-08-08 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/8/2019 7:59 AM, Huw Davies via cctalk wrote:




On 8 Aug 2019, at 15:18, Adam Thornton via cctalk  wrote:

https://mvsevm.fsf.net

Currently, the TOPS-10 guest account (42,42) and the Unix v7 account dmr have 
no passwords.


Just logged into TOPS-10 for the first time in many years! Far too much brain 
bit rot but it will encourage me to build up my own RPi emulation setup!

Thanks.

Does the PI in use have good media storage device?
I suspect TOPS and UNIX swap pages like mad. A little SD card might wear 
out in few weeks.

Ben.



Re: MULTIPROCESSING FOR THE IMPOVERISHED Part 1: a 6809 Uniprocessor

2019-08-06 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/6/2019 6:38 AM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote:

I built a dual-6809 in the late '70s - it was a brand-new, exciting part - and 
we used the E part for exactly that reason. The system used memory that had an 
access time that was better than the 4x clock, so that each processor could run 
at full speed.

It was too bad the 6809 did not have a pin to indicate Instruction or 
Data memory bank in use. That would of given a real unix system in the

8 bit world, as by then (late 70s) 64kb was proving just to small for
any real use.
The 68000 was the only real 16/32 bit cpu out at time, but nobody could 
afford it.

Ben.





Re: Alphaservers for free in Athabasca, Alberta

2019-08-05 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/5/2019 6:51 PM, Boris Gimbarzevsky via cctalk wrote:
A mere 579 miles from Kamloops.  Unfortunately have to talk to my wife 
who thinks I have too many computers even though I've given away bulk of 
my DEC stuff.  Never got a chance to play around on Alpha as it came out 
during my Mac days.


Now why could it not be a nice little PDP 11.
Ben.




Re: MULTIPROCESSING FOR THE IMPOVERISHED Part 1: a 6809 Uniprocessor

2019-08-05 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/5/2019 1:40 AM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:

Ben said

Where are all the articles about a TTL designed computer?
Yes I know about (Homebuilt CPUs ring) but that is mostly
today. What about the Late 70's and Early 80's?


Well there's the EDUC-8, based on the PDP-8 instruction set and was published 
from 1974 to 1975
by Electronics Australia magazine, followed by a number of articles on building 
peripherals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDUC-8


I saw that a few times but I never could find the link again.


I have all the original magazine issues for it, but you can get them all in 
book form from
Silicon Chip magazine these days
https://www.siliconchip.com.au/Shop/3


I suspect you can't get the PCB's any more and the card edge connectors.


Steve.


 The Amateur Computer Club magazines gave me just what I was looking for
as they had prices listed for the chips sold at the time.
 I noticed several people were finding very old machines for a song,
(1972-1977) did that happen also here in America?
Ben.








Re: MULTIPROCESSING FOR THE IMPOVERISHED Part 1: a 6809 Uniprocessor

2019-08-03 Thread ben via cctalk



Many were not published. A friend built a TTL computer based on the PDP-8 but 
no details were published.
There was a design in the UK called the "weeny-bitter" in the Amateur Computer 
Club newsletters. Not sure how many got built...
Information is scattered through the magazines. I think start at volume 2...

http://www.smrcc.org.uk/members/g4ugm/acc.htm

Dave


Thank you. That is better reading than BYTE.
250 pages of full page ADS before you hit the text content.
My only question is how much a Pound was in Canadian Dollars in 1976?
Ben.




Re: MULTIPROCESSING FOR THE IMPOVERISHED Part 1: a 6809 Uniprocessor

2019-08-02 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/2/2019 11:15 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

1993 article on building a multiprocessor 6809 box.

http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/6809cpu.htm


Read that page years ago.I have always like the 6800 CPU
model.I have used that model for a 18 and 20 bit cpu design
currently being bread boarded in DE1 FPGA development kit,
~900 logic blocks and a few small ROM blocks.

Where are all the articles about a TTL designed computer?
Yes I know about (Homebuilt CPUs ring) but that is mostly
today. What about the Late 70's and Early 80's?


I need a the web site "C compiler for the IMPOVERISHED",
I have Ron Cain's 1.0 Small C compiler modified to generate
code for my architecture but the code is really inefficient.
It is the only C compiler with source that fits in 64KB. (8080)
Ben.






Re: Announcing Cadetwriter

2019-08-01 Thread ben via cctalk

On 8/1/2019 7:52 PM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote:

The Cadetwriter flyer can be found at:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yhxq788j8g6j2sz/Cadetwriter%20Flyer.pdf?dl=0


Does it Backspace?
Ben.




Re: Resurrecting integrated circuits by cooking them.

2019-07-26 Thread ben via cctalk

On 7/25/2019 1:08 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote:

Does this mean that, like me scratching a bit at the package to expose
enough nub of broken-off pin to get a blob of solder on to hold a new
leg made of wire can theoretically be extended to shaving off the top
of the package to expose the IC and then tack soldering the severed
wire back onto it?


The chip is DEAD what do have to loose? :)
Ben.




Re: Scanning question (Is destruction of old tech docs a moral crime?)

2019-07-22 Thread ben via cctalk

On 7/21/2019 8:07 PM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote:


BTW. I have three IBM 026 card punch machines as a future restoration project. 
But can I find
a service manual? No. None online, only one for the later 028. And even if 
there was a PDF
I expect it would be the usual terrible quality.
Does anyone have a physical copy they would sell? Or as my last resort, loan?

Ditto for a service/schematics manual for the Documation TM200 punch card 
reader. No copy can be found.


I keep thinking, Do you have PUNCH CARDS for that project?


Guy

What about software develped in the 70's, Contact Prof Smith, in room 
231B for source code on paper tape from the HAL 900. Your TAX $$$ at

work.?




Re: Scanning Results

2019-07-21 Thread ben via cctalk

On 7/21/2019 9:04 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote:


Starting again with the clean full size scan, reduce to 1200 x 1620, (a good 
screen size)
and 8 bit/px indexed. (Adequate for this page.)   Saved file size: 339 KB.
   File: 7903_07_1200_8.png


Umm I am running 800 x 600 here. I have gone back to smaller
screen since FireFox seems to displaying TINY FONTS all the time.
I like 80x20 screen sized TEXT. Also different pdf viewers display
differently. I read my PDF on Android PDF reader and not every thing
displays in the default reader.

Umm 74170 ... TTL data book, turn on reader ... look up part..


Btw, I don't suppose anyone has a copy of a utility called PDF Dissector, from 
Zynamics?
Google bought out Zynamics and withdrew the utility from the market, in 2011.

Guy


Ben.



Re: Scanning question (Is destruction of old tech docs a moral crime?)

2019-07-21 Thread ben via cctalk

On 7/21/2019 4:16 AM, Joseph S. Barrera III via cctalk wrote:

I'd suggest that in 2019 when bits are cheap and high-quality scanners
nearly as cheap, "crappy quality digital image" is a bit of a straw man.
Yes, I've seen plenty of barely-readable or practically unreadable scans,
but they were made years or decades ago.

What dpi qualifies as not "crappy"? 300dpi? 400? 600?

It is not the DPI that is problem on some scans, but they used
a LOSSY format to store the data. JPEG IS NO!
Ben.



Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West

2019-07-06 Thread ben via cctalk

On 7/6/2019 7:59 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:

Not many collectors back when the Apple1 came out!


While the CHEAP 6502 is remembered with the Apple
we must not forget that the 16 pin 4K dram really made that computer
work. Regardless of the architecture, 32 KB is needed to do
any useful computing work, and 1975 was the start of affordable
memory.
PS: Ben's 18 bit computer is BETTER than a PDP 11, faster, simpler
and with *2 MORE Blinking lights and Switches*. 1.25 us  Core (2.5 us 
instruction time) vs the orginal PDP 11.

did I say more blinking lights. :)




Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West

2019-07-06 Thread ben via cctalk

On 7/6/2019 1:12 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote:

At 08:21 PM 5/07/2019 -0400, you wrote:

You could be sitting on $400K-$1,000,000. That's the current range of
decent-condition Apple 1 boards.


I just _love_ being reminded of the circumstances of my NOT buying an Apple I, 
and what that mistake cost me.

http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm

Guy



Just like the stock market, Next week it could be vintage WWI army boots 
worn my Mother Inlaws.

It the Apple I was so great, why did the COLLECTORS not buy them then?
Now a 6501 CPU would be worth a pretty penny.
 I wonder what has more sales Saturday July 6 2019, A PDP/8 in some 
form, A PI computer, or a 6502 Home brew computer?

Ben.
Ps: I have a one of kind 18 bit computer lurking in a DE1 FPGA card, and 
I am not getting any offers for its sale. Replace your PDP-8 with 
something bigger. :) 1.5 uS core memory cycle.

PPS: A Deluxe 20 bit computer coming REAL SOON.






Re: gunkies.org is down or?...

2019-07-05 Thread ben via cctalk

On 7/5/2019 11:33 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Tomasz Rola

 > Is it really down?

I suppose this is actually good news, in a way - someone must have been
trying to use it, to notice that it was down! :-)

So let me take this opportunity to appeal once again for people to contribute
content; I've added a lot of PDP-11 stuff, and Lars and I sporadically add
PDP-10 stuff (not that very many actually have a hardware -10 :-), but
_everything else_ could use more content. So if you have a particular focus -
please consider contributing your knowledge in that area!

Noel


It looks up from here. Wow all those banks of EVIL computers behind that 
man in the photo. Ben.




Re: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR

2019-07-02 Thread ben via cctalk

On 7/1/2019 11:54 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

Pennies will never stop being minted--the members of Congress 
representing the

state of Illinois would not stand for it.


In spite of costing more to make them than they are worth.


The same could be said for Congresmen. :)





Re: Latest Additions to the Virtual Warehouse of Computing, > Wonders Sale Inventory

2019-06-29 Thread ben via cctalk

On 6/29/2019 4:21 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:


An Imsai 8080 is s'posed to sell for $599 ($931 assembled)
An Apple 1 is s'posed to sell for $666.66
A TRS-80 is s'posed to be $599.95, with monitor and cassette player.
A 5150 is s'posed to be $1281, easily $1565 with base features, and up.
What kind of "capitalist profiteers" would go with what the market will 
bear, and charge more?


The real question, did any one ever buy  BIG IRON computers as NEW on 
this list.




--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com


Ben.





Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR

2019-06-28 Thread ben via cctalk

On 6/28/2019 11:59 AM, Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote:

On 06/28/19 13:18, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote (in part):
One big problem with dollar coins is cash trays need to be redesigned 
for them. Maybe if the US got rid of the penny (like Canada has) there 
would be somewhere to put dollar coins in a register and they would be 
used more often. 


Canada also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with coins (26.5mm and 28mm, 
resp.).




I like $1 bills better than coins here in CANADA. The lack of pennies is
real pain, as 3 cents rounds up to 5 cents for cash. but credit/bank 
card is still in cents.

Will trade new $1 coins for old dirty $1 US bills. :)





Re: unix developed on 11/20 with 20 on panel or machine that just said pdp/11?

2019-06-21 Thread ben via cctalk

On 6/20/2019 6:20 PM, Paul Koning wrote:


Don't you ALL wish the the 11 was 18 bits. Not looking at REAL
11 but the schematic, two bits would have not been too hard to add.


You mean like a PDP-7 (the first Unix machine)?


Nope, the * PDP 11 * from 1971.

It used if I remember right a 16x1 RAM and a 1 bit ADDER was heart of 
the ALU. 4 bit wide TTL came out in the next version of the 11.
Reading the development notes for the PDP 11 (bitsavers) makes 
interesting reading on just what was planned back then.

XV6 is  teaching unix (2006) I just found out about. We now
all can upgrade from PDP11's with 56K of core to PC with 128KB of memory 
:) .

Ben.



paul






Re: unix developed on 11/20 with 20 on panel or machine that just said pdp/11?

2019-06-20 Thread ben via cctalk

On 6/20/2019 9:58 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 06/20/2019 08:50 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


V6 will run on an LSI-11/02 with 28KW of memory.



28 KW is 56 KBytes, which is the max on most non-MMU CPUs.

Jon


Don't you ALL wish the the 11 was 18 bits. Not looking at REAL
11 but the schematic, two bits would have not been too hard to add.
Ben.



Re: One of the deeper dives into RISC vs CISC I've seen

2019-06-15 Thread ben via cctalk

On 6/15/2019 8:47 AM, Stefan Skoglund via cctalk wrote:


With VAX 11/780 and S/360 involved ? I don't think so soo
the Cyber series and 709(4) could be interesting.


Well the early 1960's was the rise of BIG IRON that had REAL POWER
and that led to people thinking about high level languages and Computer
Science in general. We got  PL/I (USA) and ALGOL (Every where ELSE)
that is a realy hard to compile into effective code. CISC design is
now needed to handle the 'extended features'. C was simmpler,
but still hand many features. RISC came along only because Compilers
could only generate SIMPLE instructions, that matched the RISC format.
My 2 cents.
Ben.



Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?

2019-06-11 Thread ben via cctalk

On 6/11/2019 2:55 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:



There are no banner ads on ycombinator, nor on Seth's site.  I suspect 
you have malware somewhere in your system or on your network.


As froghorn leghorn once said. "That was a Joke son" ...


- Josh


I'll look at that site later, as finding any kind of intersting page
is becoming harder and harder as web searching is getting very sloppy.
Ben.



Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?

2019-06-11 Thread ben via cctalk

On 6/11/2019 11:11 AM, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, at 9:22 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 18:15, Seth Morabito via cctalk
 wrote:


Oops! Clearly a boneheaded mistake on my part. Time to fix that ancient post of 
mine...


Ancient? It was on HN yesterday!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20137134


It's not my fault they found a blog post I made in 2012 yesterday! :^)


USE LESS BANNER ADS.

-Seth
What I have seen a lot lately, is that you get a search hit, click on 
the link

and get a "We will display NOT this page for you because  ". Is that
the same for you people out there?
Ben.






Re: Process accounting - did anyone ever use it?

2019-05-31 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/31/2019 7:32 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:



On May 30, 2019, at 2:08 PM, Charles Anthony via cctalk  
wrote:

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 10:31 AM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


(Credit the Quotas thread for prompting this.)

Did anyone ever use process accounting?  Did they actually bill
departments (funny money)?



I am not billed for it, but the data is collected:

logout

CAnthony.User logged out 05/30/19  1705.9 edt Thu
CPU usage 19 sec, memory usage 2.4 units, cost $1.33.
hangup
Multics has disconnected you

-- Charles


I’d get largely the same when logging out of GCOS-8.  I’ve rather chuckled at 
some of the “bills” that I’ve racked up on my Multics System.

Zane

I wonder what the real time on the system was for 19 seconds?
Was there a I/O charge as well on the system?
Is that a real machine or a emulation you are running?
Ben.




Re: 11/93 Rebuild

2019-05-27 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/27/2019 2:56 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, 27 May 2019, Rod Smallwood wrote:

  On an old XP box?  er neither will run


My reply was meant as a hint. You should be able to find a dd-like tool 
for Windows yourself ;-) Either by using a old version of Cygwin (there 
are instructions how to find them), by installing a stand-alone "dd" for 
Windows, whatever.


Christian



http://www.chrysocome.net/dd
I like this one, used to copy disc images to sd cards.
Ben. Windows 7


Re: Pleas ID this IBM system....

2019-05-21 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/21/2019 11:03 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:

all systems have their advantages disadvantages it all depends on what your
doing and designs u choose. personaly i think raised floor and tray above
are best then u keep all ur power below away from ur data lines plus but
then ur setup is only as good as the lazyest tech u get comming in running
stuff.


I say use the STAR TREK layout. All cables run under the AIR DUCTS, and
you crawl through those. :)
Ben.



Re: "industrial" PDP-11

2019-05-17 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/16/2019 12:14 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote:

The standard 8s and 11s pretty much became "Industrial" when they were
paired with the PDP-14 or PDP-16 industrial product lines.. I have several
Industrial 8s and 11s. Like Al said, that part was just a change to red and
blue, but it was tied to some very specialized equipment.

Did the Industrial version get better testing and work in a non friendly
envorment?




Re: HP 1000 E-series peripherals wanted

2019-05-14 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/14/2019 11:17 AM, Alaric Nicoll via cctalk wrote:



Hi
I was wondering if there were any people who were wanting to sell any HP 1000 
computer peripherals. Preferably disk oriented Such as a disk controller or a 
79xx drive

(I live in the UK so shipping may be an issue for larger things)
I suspect shipping will be the cheaper thing. Proper packing will be the 
more expensive thing. Remember at one time you got printed manual to 
unpack your computer or device, and the process needs to be done in

reverse.



Re: How were 32-bit minis built in the 70s/80?

2019-05-11 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/11/2019 10:12 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:


Personally, I preferred "the Naked Mini"

Used for porn world wide.:)

--Chuck






Re: How were 32-bit minis built in the 70s/80?

2019-05-11 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/11/2019 9:28 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:

On 05/11/2019 09:30 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:

On 5/11/2019 6:28 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:


Not all were 74181 based, Thats an early 1972 part and but 1975 it was
already getting old though useful as it evolved to 74S and 74F series.
The 82s100 and 105 series were out there and even by 1980 the AMD 2900C
series was getting long in the tooth. Mask programable gate arrays were
in the 1000 and up gate level by 1980 and growing by doubles every 6
months to a year. Don't got get programmables like PAL/GAL logic.
There was a lot of designs and even inside DEC you might see several
approaches depending on what machine and the specific date.  For example
the 780, 750 and 730 used very different technology.  I will not go into
those that also went the ECL {10K, 100K, 1M families] route.


74181 is FAST, but I disagree with the way most computer architecture is


TTl in general is slow a ALU based on 181 is hitting the wall at 5mhz
with 12 or 32 but carry lookahead.


No BUT's

I have my cpu designed for 1976, with NO pipeline and a 6900 memory 
cycle @ .75 us. I suspect about half the speed and half the price

had it been built in that era compared to a pdp 11.


designed. You have a fast micro code cycle, that is out of sync with
main memory, that tries to emulate a Harvard? Memory model.
It looks fast only on paper or demo programs sadly.
The few schematics I have seen (PDP 8/11) have 74H logic hidden
inside so you can't say they are pure TTL logic.


Yes, they are mostly TTL and the typical 8efm use MSI ttl such as
7481, a bunch of them.

I'm likely one of the few that took a 8E and ran semiconductor ram then
pushed the clock up to the breaking point and you get to about 4x and
you start getting timing errors and critical path delays that mess with
the logic.  However at 4X you doing a lot and decently fast but you
needs a faster generation of logic.



  A cpu instruction has 4 parts in general
  a) getting the instruction and literal data from memory
  b) calculating the the effective address
  c) fetching the data from memory  c) ouputing data
  d) using the data d) saving to memory.




Many of those things can be done in parallel.

Or pipe lining, I don't mind tricks being used to
speed up a system,but knowing how slow a instruction
is, or what side effects can be very important.


The name for that is system overhead and PDP-8 had little and what it
did have was written in assembler for speed and compact code as it was
also space constrained.


I don't know, I suspect 3-4 users would bog down a 8 time sharing.
mind you time sharing meant back then meant 4 people editing files
not like to day, where 3 or 4 windows are running with 30 back ground tasks.

It was a marvel how the machines worked with so little core.


Allison, have the shirt.

I have the paper tape. :)
Ben.




Re: How were 32-bit minis built in the 70s/80?

2019-05-11 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/11/2019 6:28 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:


Not all were 74181 based, Thats an early 1972 part and but 1975 it was
already getting old though useful as it evolved to 74S and 74F series.
The 82s100 and 105 series were out there and even by 1980 the AMD 2900C
series was getting long in the tooth. Mask programable gate arrays were
in the 1000 and up gate level by 1980 and growing by doubles every 6
months to a year. Don't got get programmables like PAL/GAL logic.
There was a lot of designs and even inside DEC you might see several
approaches depending on what machine and the specific date.  For example
the 780, 750 and 730 used very different technology.  I will not go into
those that also went the ECL {10K, 100K, 1M families] route.


74181 is FAST, but I disagree with the way most computer architecture is
designed. You have a fast micro code cycle, that is out of sync with
main memory, that tries to emulate a Harvard? Memory model.
It looks fast only on paper or demo programs sadly.
The few schematics I have seen (PDP 8/11) have 74H logic hidden
inside so you can't say they are pure TTL logic.

 A cpu instruction has 4 parts in general
 a) getting the instruction and literal data from memory
 b) calculating the the effective address
 c) fetching the data from memory  c) ouputing data
 d) using the data d) saving to memory.

It is very hard to speed up this cycle because this has
sync to extenal memory. Memory is the bottleneck
is the true speed limit in any sytem. Add in virtual
memory and in multitasking and graphics
no wonder the PDP 8 at with TTL gives better response
time.
Ben.
PS: this message was delayed for about a minute as
background program froze the sytem.



Re: How were 32-bit minis built in the 70s/80?

2019-05-11 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/11/2019 5:14 PM, Warren Toomey via cctalk wrote:

I'm building my own 8-bit CPU from TTL chips, and this caused me to think:
how were 32-bit minis built in the late 70s and early 80s? In particular,
how was the ALU built? I know about the 74181 4-bit ALU, and I know (from
reading A Soul of a New Machine) that PALs were also used.

Did companies get custom chips fabricated, or was it all off-the-shelf chips
with a few PALs sprinkled in?

Thanks, Warren



8 bit computers are EVIL. REPENT DEAR BROTHER.
I WILL PRAY FOR YOU.
24 bit computers are HOLY AND DIVINE.
Building a  12/24 BIT CPU with 8 bit I/O.
(back on topic)

Early 70's computers other than IBM used TTL, and fast
core memory with mostly a 16 bit word width. Other than
the PDP 11, most computers where adapted from the transistor
era with tweaks added for banks of memory.When the late 70's
came around commercial customers had a large main frame computer
or small control computer from a few years earlier with FAST
TTL (S)logic, PDP 11's, IBM 360's or clones,or TTL standard/H like
PDP 8 or NOVA computer.

Bit slice logic like the 2901 alu, (1975) would make for
nice low cost 16/32 bit cpu with byte load/store.
The market for 32 bit computers was decided however
to sell FAST LARGE systems (floating point/64K+ memory)
like the VAX (S TTL) or upgrade other designs like the NOVA computer with
Custom or semi-custom (PAL logic) logic.
INTEL being slow with the forgotten APX 432 design
came out with 8086 leaving us with the defective CPU's
of today.

Ben's view point.

I am doing  my computer with a FPGA development system
for design logic and testing and later using 2901's
and LS TTL with 3 proms used for the alu/control cards.
 I have A nice 8/16/32 cpu design with 512KB of memory
(2901 alu )but I can't get it to route correctly. The 12/24 bit
cpu just fits with the FREE develpment software.
For a few K $ I can get the better version with being able
route by hand my logic to meet timing specs.
Once hardware SD card/serial port and software are working
I then will port the design to TTL.
I may need to write my own tiny langage to boot strap
my system.

Ben.
PS:
16 bit computer format

[op 3..1][ac 3..1][mode 3..1][ix 3..1][aux][k 3..1]
The tricky part is K is the upper 3 address bits
to extend 16 bit offset to 19 bits or a auto indexing
mode. This would be valid memory for the late 70's
early 1980's but not for today.









Re: Old CE manuals - bit savers books

2019-05-05 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/5/2019 11:12 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:



On 5/4/19 6:13 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:


I was thinking it would be nice if bitsavers could do books.


The Internet Archive is welcome to joust at that lightning rod.


Well I found the 1st edition, I just wanted to check some things
about C in that time frame.
Ben.




Re: Old CE manuals - bit savers books

2019-05-04 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/4/2019 5:01 PM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk wrote:

Yes, Al will end up with them after I play with them.

Bob

Just don't PAPER train your dog now. :)
I was thinking it would be nice if bitsavers could do books.
I alot of computer books get changed every edition, so
it would be nice to see the 1st edition archived for historial reading.
The classic book "C Programing language" by K is a good example.
For the few brave restoring early unix https://github.com/DoctorWkt
Ben.



Re: Service for converting CD-ROMs into ISO files?

2019-05-04 Thread ben via cctalk

On 5/4/2019 8:15 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
thought a CD-ROM (data CD) *is* an ISO image.  So I would expect all you 
need to do is make an image copy of the disk.  On Unix systems that's 
trivial, just use the "dd" command to copy /dev/whatever to myfile.iso.


paul


Window users rejoice (until the next verion breaks something).
http://www.chrysocome.net/dd




Re: Raspberry Pi for vaxen turbochannel

2019-05-01 Thread ben via cctalk

On 4/30/2019 5:51 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:



It occurs to me that the turbochannel slots have 4A each. It would be entirely 
possible
to put a board like the raspberry Pi on a turbochannel card

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

But you can't beat the Z80 door stop computers with the clicket 
keyboards, to hammer on.

:)



Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

2019-04-29 Thread ben via cctalk

On 4/28/2019 11:34 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:

Maybe it would be possible to get a text only browser running?


I think Gopher would be a better fit, personally. That's easy to write,
parse and display.


That might be true, but what sites still provide that service.
A web novel app might work. 5K of REAL text, 5Meg of ads,pop ups and 
java script. :(

Ben.





Re: "arx-149" computer. .. what Is?

2019-04-15 Thread ben via cctalk

On 4/14/2019 5:44 PM, Sam O'nella via cctalk wrote:

Is there a specific reference you have for this?

Sent from my Apple /c


On Apr 14, 2019, at 2:16 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk  wrote:

"arx-149"   computer. .. what Is?thanks ed#


I'd like to know too. I never could quite understand just what Marvin 
The Martian said. " The *** 32 *  um *space ** xx ** later *, :)


Re: %20Storage%20for%201/2"%20open%20reel%20tape

2019-04-09 Thread ben via cctalk

On 4/9/2019 4:40 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

This particular sort of mess often occurs when somebody uses a character 
that isn't part of the basic set.
The subject line mentioned half inch.  SOME program "did a favor" for 
its user, and changed "1 / 2" to a single character for one half.
And/or took the symmetrical character abreviation for inch, and changed 
that, since "OBVIOUSLY, left, right, and center double quote characters 
are not the same".



Just like the *smart* fpga development program I am using.
A gizillon stupid warnings and smart ass stuff like: "You using a D 
flop/flop with preset  converting to inverted D flip/flop with clear." 
Yet at the same time don't even warn you if IT THINKS it can remove 
whole blocks of logic or warn about .CLK input to a D flip flop is missing.
Testing a CPU with a small program ROM input, and it figured it could 
"remove"stuff. IR[3..2] is stuck at 0 and removing. ARG!

Ben.
PS: now the latest thing in HTML, spacing spaces to format your page
to FIT our screen (not yours).






Re: More stuff looking for a good home

2019-04-06 Thread ben via cctalk

On 4/6/2019 8:53 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


Been a really long time since I had a UNIBUS system!!  Amazing what
turns up when your spring cleaning.


Spring collecting.


bill



You lucky I don't drive, I'd rent a Garbage Truck and do DUMPSTER 
collecting.

This week, 3 8's two 11's half a 360 and dead skunk. :)





Re: Yes there is a PDP 10 front panel and Kenbak on Ebay

2019-04-05 Thread ben via cctalk

On 4/5/2019 10:06 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

What I want to know is, how do front panels of historic computers so
often get separated from the rest of the computer?
Could be just storage problems. The main computer here, racks of stuff 
there, cables and panel there, and things get lost over time.



The moosehead is still hanging on the wall.
But, the backside of the moose is no longer on the other side of that wall.


But what if was a TALKING moose head? The movie "MURDER BY DEATH" comes 
to mind.Ben.






Re: Not DEC related but still hoping for some help: Problems w/ LJ 4+ Printer

2019-04-03 Thread ben via cctalk

On 4/3/2019 9:44 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

First, since you have not checked with another cartridge, is to examine 
the corona wires and/or "combs" on the cart. Sometimes the wires break 
at one end.  Also, toner spills could short it out, I've had that 
before.  Bent contacts on the cart where it connects the HV to the 
printer could also be making bad/no contact.


But, the caps could be it, the symptom where it starts working after 
warming up does indicate weak caps.


You might want to order a few HV diodes because a leaky HV diode
could be found if the caps are good.


Jon





Re: Byte Magazine

2019-03-29 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/29/2019 3:37 PM, Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote:

On 03/29/19 14:08, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 at 19:01, ben via cctalk  
wrote:

I have been trying to read the Dr Dobbs PDF scans and a few other PDF's.
They seem to work only with the NAME BRAND pdf reader. Of course I use
the OTHER brand.

Since you don't name names, I can't directly comment. We don't know
what OS you're running.

If you have a Mac, then you can get Adobe Reader for it.

[...]

For just reading, I find FOSS viewers fine.


Indeed, I am really curious as to which PDFs cannot be read by Preview 
(Mac) or xpdf (X).  Could the OP please provide a link?


N.



Jelly baby o/s . Ops too much Dr Who , Jelly bean for the android.
I did install Adobe Reader, but it way too slow.
I need to Install it for my pc, if I can find it among all the other 
stuff they want bundle you with.

Ben.




Re: Byte Magazine

2019-03-29 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/29/2019 12:18 PM, Hagstrom, Paul wrote:


Perhaps an obvious thing to say, but I'm sure others who have encountered this 
would appreciate your efforts if you were to re-scan these things or convert 
existing scans from the format you are having difficulty with into a format 
that is less proprietary.


I am using a PDF reader ( B ) that runs android 4.2. I need a DATABOOK 
for say a 74H00 I got it.
Other books I am less lucky with. Right now I am looking modifying the 
Small C compiler from Dr Dobbs for the homebrew computer I have (living 
now on a DE1 FPGA card) . A nice 10/20 bit cpu but non standard to check 
the old back issues for finer details.




There are definitely scans out there that would be better if they were made 
today or even made with more care.  Some things could use re-scanning.

Nevertheless, I appreciate the fairly significant amount of effort that went 
into scanning things originally, particularly when scanners were worse, 
computers were slower, and disk space was expensive.  I am not angry at them 
for not doing a bunch more work than they actually already did.


Well CD roms have been around a long time, so archiving data was never a 
problem.


The real problem was
all the libraries dumping the older books for the latest windows95 c++ 
or Microsoft application. They are not online. Google will find a lot 
books for 2018 but very few from 1975.


I am looking for bare metal OS right now, I just finished the I/O for SD 
card and burned the eeproms on the DE1 card. The hardware has more than

32KB of memory  but I would like see if I can get the small c compiler
in 24KB of memory with a 8Kb OS.

Ben.





Re: Byte Magazine

2019-03-29 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/29/2019 4:57 AM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:

In a previous thread I asked for a couple of specific pages from Byte magazine, 
which I got (thanks to all, especially Peter, for helping out!)  But that 
brings up a bigger issue (no pun intended.)

About a year ago I found the Byte scans on americanradiohistory.org and started 
reading from the start.  I found that those scans were less than great, with 
many missing pages, pages out of order, pages scanned at resolutions too low to 
read, and a few other problems.  I went searching the web for other scans and, 
with a few exceptions for individual issues, found that ALL the collections of 
scans seemed to be the same ones, with the same bad pages.

I have been trying to read the Dr Dobbs PDF scans and a few other PDF's. 
They seem to work only with the NAME BRAND pdf reader. Of course I use 
the OTHER brand. It would be nice if when scanning a file THEY used a 
generic output rather than latest bells and whistles.Some PDF's seems

to raw bit mapped images that take forever to display. If you can't read
them what is use of archiving them.
Bitsavers works for everybody but they don't have books in general.
Ben.


Re: PDP-8 signed overflow detection - Apollo guidace computer

2019-03-26 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/25/2019 7:27 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 1:26 AM Kyle Owen via cctalk 
wrote:



All this to fix a ~45 year old bug in Spacewar! where a ship's velocity
overflows, causing the ship to "bounce" off of nothing.

I would have figured it was bouncing off a chunk of dark matter.


Cool stuff! PDP-8 programming always seems a bit like puzzle solving.

Kyle


Some times the hardware is more fun than the software.
I got looking at a BLOG I had forgotten about.
First they planned on Emulating a IBM 1130
Later they found a real IBM 1130 in the middle of now where.
Now they seem to have have found a SCRAPPED Apollo guidance
computer and am rebuilding the missing pieces.

http://rescue1130.blogspot.com/
Ben.


Re: Only never in Canada - dumb terminals - video tex

2019-03-24 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/24/2019 7:15 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:


Like this?:
http://madrona.ca/e/telidon/index.html


It was in a surplus store,So I expect it was parts from some larger device.
This was in Vancover about 1990 ish.


Can't say I bought it, it was a donation, and I don't know the story of whoever 
donated it.
Might have been purchased from the surplus store BCTel used to run, or it may 
have come from a former Microtel employee, or who knows.

Saw a boxed converter-only unit (needed a TV for the display) in a thrift store 
around 2000, but passed it over.
(I'm sure everybody else did too).

I also scrapped a converter-only unit back around 2000 or so.


Ben.




Re: Only never in Canada - dumb terminals - video tex

2019-03-24 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/24/2019 10:27 AM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:

And I have some in Toronto; Falco, ADM-11 and bits & pieces.


Did anyone out there (In Canada) buy the surplus VideoTex terminals,
I saw Many Many  years  ago.

Ben.



Re: Only never in Canada - dumb terminals

2019-03-23 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/23/2019 10:07 AM, Mike Stein wrote:

As to RS-232, it can provide TTL or 0-3.3V 'pseudo-RS-232' which usually works in my 
experience, but if you need 'true' RS-232 there are tiny TTL<>RS-232 adapters on 
eBay for < $2.00


But $80 shipping over night to canada with my luck.


I believe Rich Cini built one; maybe he can add something

Australia is a good ways away from here.

The link is here for the micro controller and PCB.
https://www.siliconchip.com.au/Shop/8/2760
It is a good deal if you have the other parts,
but I am looking for a older terminal with a
real keyboard and screen. The first computer
I used had the TTY I/O and I liked that keyboard feel.
Ben.


Re: Only never in Canada - dumb terminals

2019-03-23 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/23/2019 2:41 AM, Henk Gooijen wrote:

Would this be useful?

http://geoffg.net/terminal.html

Henk, PA8PDP


It would be if it had RS232 rather than TTL? outputs.
To source all that stuff with the high price of USA to Canada shipping
it would be about $150? Canadian as a guess.

This link might be more useful to a lot of people on the list.
TTY's and  service still can be found here, if the web page can be believed.

http://www.johnwhitney.com/misc/paul-rtty.htm



*Van:* cctalk  namens ben via cctalk 


*Verzonden:* Saturday, March 23, 2019 8:07:36 AM
*Aan:* cctalk@classiccmp.org
*Onderwerp:* Only never in Canada - dumb terminals
I am building a project that needs to use a Stand alone dumb terminal
like a VT 52 or Similar. Alas I can't find any low cost Hardware
Solutions here in Canada. Low cost with shipping under is $150 Canadian
for me.Software terminal emulation is just a stop gap fix.
Any ideas out there. Even a better search keyword than "dumb terminal"
would help. Ben.





Re: Only never in Canada - dumb terminals

2019-03-23 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/23/2019 1:18 AM, Adrian Stoness wrote:

what end of canada its a big country


On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 2:07 AM ben via cctalk <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:


I am building a project that needs to use a Stand alone dumb terminal
like a VT 52 or Similar. Alas I can't find any low cost Hardware
Solutions here in Canada. Low cost with shipping under is $150 Canadian
for me.Software terminal emulation is just a stop gap fix.
Any ideas out there. Even a better search keyword than "dumb terminal"
would help. Ben.



Hmm We have cows and grass and oil pumps outside. This must be the 
middle of the Alberta. Cold Lake if you really want to know.


I have just finished a 20 BIT CPU design with a DE1 (ORIGINAL) FPGA 
development card, and looking at the 1974 - 1976 time frame for
a physical computer hardware design. The bare metal part is done, so now 
have test and clean up the logic details and I/O devices. Late this

year I plan to have software and hardware pre-tested on the FPGA
card before I start laying out the mother board and PCBs.

This will be a modern version but basically a 1975 ish logic design.
Small Proms, 74LSxxx and 2901A's and MK4096 4Kx1 Dram speeds.
Ben.


Only never in Canada - dumb terminals

2019-03-23 Thread ben via cctalk
I am building a project that needs to use a Stand alone dumb terminal 
like a VT 52 or Similar. Alas I can't find any low cost Hardware 
Solutions here in Canada. Low cost with shipping under is $150 Canadian

for me.Software terminal emulation is just a stop gap fix.
Any ideas out there. Even a better search keyword than "dumb terminal"
would help. Ben.



Re: Pioneers of computing

2019-03-12 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/11/2019 10:29 AM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 03/11/2019 02:35 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:

IBM 360 32 bits 16 word reg file - 16 bit word.


While some 360 models had a hardware architecture of 8, 16, or even 64 
bits, all of the 360s (except the model 20, which was not really a 360) 
had 16 32-bit registers as the program saw it.


Jon
  That needed to say Half Word. The point I was making was you went down

from 36 bits to 32 bits and that loss of word size made everything
follow a similar architecture model between different computer 
manufactures as there is only a few ways to format your opcodes to fit 
into half a word. A bit here, a bit there and WOW you need a bigger

opcode space. Ben.




Re: Parts source

2019-03-11 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/11/2019 8:26 PM, Will Cooke via cctech wrote:

This may or may not be new or useful to anyone here, but I came across this 
website by accident today.  They have a considerable selection of rather hard 
to find parts for old home computers, game consoles, and even arcade machines.  
Figured I would send along the link.
http://www.arcadecomponents.com/index.html


This guy sells proms as well and can BURN them.
http://www.eprompro.com/


Re: Pioneers of computing

2019-03-11 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/10/2019 9:11 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:



I have seen some claims that this was the first microprocessor -- although not 
a single chip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Air_Data_Computer

Will

I would say it was JUST too early to count as valid microprocessor. I 
expect they all were 'hand picked' from the few chips that tested as 
working.


In some ways those designs seem better developed that the 'consumer'
computer products that came out. I would say the IBM 360 halted any real
progress since the 1960's with packing 4 8 bit BCD/text characters in a
32 bit word. I like 10/20 bits or 12/24 bits as a computer word length 
with byte addressing. IBM 360 32 bits 16 word reg file - 16 bit word.

PDP 11 8 word reg file 16 bit word. RISC 16 word reg file - 16 bit
word. RISC 256 word reg file 32 bit word.

Mostly the same format as reg to reg and load/store as the
be the model for most computer languages around 1970 ish. WOW a new
university computer from IBM ( 360 or clone) or a PDP 11 for the lab.

I was just reading somewhere , a  single user ? linux machine had 233 
threads going. What would that be like multi-user when it starts thrashing?

I think PDP8/e time sharing @ 110 baud got more real work done.

In hindsight, only after the fast 4K x 1 dynamic ram came out did
computing make it from the lab to the public with 16KB for OS
and 32KB+ for user programs. CP/M (8080) and FLEX (6800).

The lack of hefty card edge connectors like for the S100 bus
has me developing a 3 card cpu using 72 pin .156" pitch and
50 pin .156" pitch card edge connectors for a 12/24 bit
CPU. Emulated I/O planned is a TTY (terminal 1200 baud) and RK05
disc (PDP8) on a SDC card.  The time frame is 1975 ish
with the advent of 256x8 PROM's and 2901's and 74LS TTL with
250ns 4K DRAMS.

The bare machine is just burned today into a ALTERA DE1 FPGA development 
kit. Right now I am looking for few good books on a SIMPLE OS

and a SIMPLE programing language in the 1975 to 1980 time frame.
The catch is for now disk I/O is 12 bit words packed into 2 8 bit
bytes.

While it is TOO late to implement, a 8" floppy could be formatted
using GCR to give 8 512 (12 bit word) sectors per track using ballpark
calulations.
Ben.


Re: Pioneers of computing

2019-03-10 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/10/2019 7:30 PM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote:


Here is a little bit of info on it:
http://www.vintagecalculators.com/html/ti_cal-tech1.html



That's fascinating, thanks. I'd never heard of it.

The Intel 4004 came out in 1971.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_4004
I'd understood that was the first chip that could be considered a 'processor' 
(though it required some support chips to do anything.)
The TI Cal-Tech design was begun in 1965 and they had a working calculator in 
1967. I wonder if the chips in that had any kind of code programmability?

Looking at the vintage calculator page, I would give the "FAR EAST" my 
vote for the first processor type chips. Everything was in-house 
development you can say they all came out at the same time. Look at TTL
pre 1970 4 gate logic, after 1970 74181 alu 7416x 4 bit counters 7489 
16x4 RAM. About 1973 Tristate logic and 32x8 , 256x4 PROMS.



Guy






Re: Pioneers of computing

2019-03-10 Thread ben via cctalk

On 3/10/2019 3:18 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:

Back in 1965 Jack Kilby, Jerry Merryman and James Van Tassel at texas
Instruments created an integrated circuit designed to replace the
calulator. Historians, though not all, credit this development as the
beginning of the electronic-computing revolution that was truly underway by
the mid-70s. Vintage/classic computing our hobby goes back that far as us
baby-boomers can attest to.

Happy computing all!


So do have more information on said device?
I am using a 2901 bit slice and that came out in 1975. :)
Ben.



Re: OT: Phone museum seeks new owner

2019-02-20 Thread ben via cctalk

On 2/19/2019 2:14 PM, geneb via cctalk wrote:

This message brought to you by the Totalitarian Touch Tone Terrorists(tm).
g.

How ever SMART PHONES have taken OVER. AI's rule the world. Evil 
computer laugh!




Re: EmuVR & videogames & monitors...

2019-01-17 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/17/2019 4:20 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Zane Healy

 > Paper is an archival medium

If you want archival, you really need to go the 'baked clay tablet' approach.. 
:-)

Noel


Sure, and have Smokey the Bear catch you.
I can not think of any real archival medium. Ben.




Re: ELTRAN THE COMPILER ANY DOCS? (NOT THE SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF!)))

2019-01-13 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/13/2019 2:06 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:


Being an old hard-of-seeing guy myself, I much prefer mixed-case to
all-caps.  All caps destroys the "shape" of words.


Where is the $%!@ codepage for the ASR-33. Get all caps with a REAL keyboard
and better text (with a new ribbon) than a tiny 24x80 console window on
1280 x 1024 screen.


--Chuck


Ben.



Re: PDP-11 BETTER

2019-01-12 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/12/2019 4:45 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:


The 6809 (hitachi 63B09) are about as close to PDP11 in general
structure and
instruction set and could boogy.   The were a cusp 16 bitter (not really
but close).

The 8088/86 was not wonderful, and what came after had all the side baggage
to not help.   At that time I was voting for 68000 to win!



So was I, but all we got was the MAC (128K memory) and game machines.

Allison


I am building a TTL computer from 1973 as I said earlier. This is to 
compiete
with the PDP 11 and the PDP 8. Major design features a single memory bus 
and character  I/O (10 bits) and word/character addressing.


The hardest part is getting a card edge connector for the bus, in .156 inch
pitch. All I can find are 28/56 and 36/72 pin connectors. A possible 
design is loosely based of the 6800 cpu but 18 bits. EBAY for the hard 
to find parts and the rest off the shelf TTL or LS part depending the 
bus clock. Since proms seem to out in 1973 I will be using them.



 876 543 210 987 654 321
+---+
|ooo|baa|xx-|±##|###|###|normal opcode
+---+
+---+
|ooo|I00|###|###|###|##0|bcc opcode + 1K words
+---+
+---+
|00h|000|00-|000|000|000|hlt opcode
+---+
+---+
|000|000|xx.|±##|###|###|lea opcode
+---+

ooo opcode  b byte  aa jmp,ac,ix,sp xx #,Z,ix,sp

A simpler 20 bit cpu is possible but might be to
primitive a design with only word addressing
and possible random logic design having NO proms
in the design.

+---+
|ooobaa|xx|||normal opcode
+---+

It is really amazing how fast electronics changed between
1971 and 1976.

Ben.









Re: Interest in a DiscFerret?

2019-01-10 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/10/2019 7:41 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 1/10/19 5:16 PM, Chris Pye via cctalk wrote:


There is a 13 sector version of ADTPro. All you need is a working
Apple II or IIe with a floppy drive and serial card (or ethernet
card). It can even bootstrap the Apple into 13 sector DOS 3.2 mode
and then you can read and transfer disk images to a PC via serial or
ethernet. Then use CiderPress to read the files from the disk
images.


Jim Sather's "Understanding the Apple IIe" has a wonderful exposition on
the workings of the Apple II disk controller.  Without having an Apple
II at my disposal in the 80s, I was able to construct a rather simple
ISA card for a PC that would read Apple floppies.

Then I got a MatchPoint PC card.

Now, of course, handling Apple II floppies can be done with $3
microcontroller card.

--Chuck


Or emulated with a 39 cent part not counting connectors.
Ben.



Re: OT RE: Bogus "account hacked" message

2019-01-09 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/10/2019 12:19 AM, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote:


I was going to say that permanent blocks on IP addresses seems fruitless.

I assume that BotNets are compromised end user machines, and that the end
users that have them are on standard dynamic IP address, so when some one
gets one of your blocked addresses.

Dave
And then we have the other end, The latest browsers refuse to let access 
to NON approved site. I wonder how soon it will be the web will be only

SLEEZY marketing outfits that bribe GOOGLE and EBAY and MICROSOFT.
Ben.
BTW What ever happened to all the DEC terminals out there?
I can't find any cheap in CANADA.







Re: Teaching Approximations (was Re: Microcode, which is a no-go for

2019-01-08 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/8/2019 6:24 PM, dwight via cctalk wrote:

There is an algorithm to calculate any digit of PI as long as it is in HEX ( or 
base 16 ). So far no one has been able to do this in a decimal system. It would 
seem that out binary computers were close to right in the first place.
Dwight



What is the value of PI when you pound a SQUARE peg in a ROUND HOLE?
 +-+
|  |
 +-+

Ben.





Re: OT? Upper limits of FSB

2019-01-08 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/8/2019 3:51 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:

Some architectures (I’m thinking of the latest Intel CPUs) have a small loop 
cache
whose aim is to keep a loop entirely within that cache.  That cache operates at 
the
full speed of the instruction fetch/execute (actually I think it keeps the 
decoded uOps)
cycles (e.g. you can’t go faster).  L1 caches impose a penalty and of course 
there is
the instruction decode time as well both of which are avoided.

TTFN - Guy


I bet I/O loops throw every thing off.
Ben.



Re: so far off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8?

2019-01-07 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/7/2019 8:20 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:
snip...

made though more likely 74F, AS, or LS variant and of course CMOS 74ACT
(and cmos friends) as I just bought a bunch.  Dip is getting harder to
get but
the various SMT packages are easy.  Prices for 10 or more of a part are
cheap to cheaper from primary suppliers.  The second tier suppliers are
often several times that.


I got ebay... The bottom of the heap.


I figure most of what I did back then is years before many here were born.

However I have enough NOS TTL 74LS, 74AS, 74F series to build several
machines.


I have been playing around with a early 70's TTL computer design
and 74LS181's are too slow by 30 ns. Using a BLACK BOX model for core 
memory, I can get a 1.2us memory cycle using a 4.912 MHz raw clock

but I need a few 74Hxx's in there. Proms are 256x4 60 ns and 32x8 50 ns.

Do you have your 74Hxx spares? Eastern Europe still  has a few on ebay
with reasonable shipping for 100% American Russian parts.


I'm still building, current project is a very compact Z80 CP/M system
using CF
for disk. Mine uses all Zilog CMOS for very low power.  Its a variant of
the
Grant Searle Z80 with memory management added to utilize all of the
124k ram and eeprom.  If you want go look there.


What do you use all that memory for?


Allison



The Chinese elves have been busy, My 5V 15 amp $20 power supply arrived
in the mail today. I have power to spare for my BUS and blinking lights.

Ben.




Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP

2019-01-06 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/6/2019 12:24 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:


The small beauty of being there...   FYI back then (1972) a 7400 was
about 25 cents
and 7483 adder was maybe $1.25.  Least that's what I paid.

Checks my favorite supplier.

$1.25 for 7400 and $4.00 for a 7483.
It has gone up in price.

Allison


Ben.





Re: Motorola M88K books & user manuals (looking for)

2019-01-01 Thread ben via cctalk

On 1/1/2019 8:58 AM, Carlo Pisani via cctalk wrote:

hi
on DTB we are designing a RISC-ish CPU, code name "Arise-v2"(1).
We are using the MIPS R2K and the RISC-V as the reference.

In the end, it will be implemented in HDL -> FPGA.

The page on DTB is related to a software emulator (written in C) for
the whole system. CPU + RAM + ROM + UART, etc. so we can test and our
ISA more comfortably.

As a second reference, I'd like to consider the first Motorola RISC:
88K, which is very elegant and neat ISA; unfortunately, I have
difficulties at finding user manuals and books about it.

If someone wants to sell me a copy, it will be appreciated!

Thanks and happy new year!


I was never a fan of RISC architecture as does not fit the standard high 
level language model. Everybody wants a 1 pass compiler, thus the RISC 
model. If you are doing your own RISC model, you might consider a model

that supports Effective addressing better since we have got the point
where fetching the data is taking longer than processing it.

The other thought is the pipeline seems has too high speed of a clock,
what is the use a fast clock, if you got one or two gates of logic 
between your clocks. Gate and line driving speed ratios  remind me of 
the Vacuum tube era of computing.


I have FPGA card here, as using it to develop a NICE 20 bit TTL 
computer.I just ordered a few 7437's from the Ukraine, so this might be 
the last year to stock up needed 74XXX spares.


Good luck with your design.
Ben.




Re: More old stuff incoming

2018-12-21 Thread ben via cctalk

On 12/21/2018 8:09 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:


For the DPS-8, there really is only one option, and sadly GCOS-8 isn’t 
available, only Multics.  Still it’s pretty cool to finally be able to use 
Multics, and it’s a lot more user friendly than GCOS-8 (I used to be a Systems 
Analyst at a DPS-8 mainframe site).
http://www.avanthar.com/healyzh/decemulation/Honeywell_DPS-8.html

For those unaware, my DEC Emulation pages had to move late last year, due to my 
ISP of ~20 years being ransacked by a Crook.  I managed to do quite a bit of 
work updating the pages earlier this year.

Zane


So where are your pages?
Google seems to have changed the algorithm to randomly match on any 
word, so searching for DEC Emulation, most likely get a Christmas pajamas.

Ben.




Re: Origin of 'Straight 8' name

2018-12-21 Thread ben via cctalk

On 12/21/2018 8:46 PM, John Ames via cctalk wrote:

I'd definitely be interested to hear if the DECheads on this list know
the specifics, but I'd gathered that it came about once other models
were introduced and the need arose to differentiate between, say, a
PDP-8/e and a "straight" (i.e. vanilla) PDP-8. The car connection
probably made the particular phrasing happen (of course, they
originally photographed it in a Volkswagen, but they couldn't very
well have started calling it a "flat-4!")



Well your flat 4 can get you a few $$$ as nice little aircraft engine.
Happy Flying.
Ben.


Re: Origin of 'Straight 8' name

2018-12-21 Thread ben via cctalk

On 12/21/2018 11:37 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

Back in the first half the 20th century, there were various
configurations of 8-cylinder internal combustion engines.

We're all familiar with the V-8, but there were inline 8-cylinder
designs used primarily on luxury cars, making for a wonderfully long
engine compartment.  Cord, Buick, Packard, Chrysler and Oldsmobile all
offered the "straight 8" on their high-end models.  Those were called
"straight-eights", I suspect because of the attractiveness of rhyming
name. "Straight 8" configuration was also used on some aircraft as well.

I suspect the name for the early PDP-8 is just a convenient adaptation
of a once well-known automotive term, much like "V-8".

For what it's worth, Ford experimented with an X-8 configuration as
well, but never put it into production.

--Chuck



Now I got a stupid image of the newer models adding 6 bits on every
other clock phase for a faster cpu.



Re: More old stuff incoming

2018-12-18 Thread ben via cctalk

On 12/18/2018 9:53 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk wrote:

Indeed.

Just this year, we pulled our Pentium Pro box off our museum shelf and 
did a fresh install of NT4 for a faculty member and their scientific 
instrument.


--Jason



Z80's and 8 bit IBM pc's are making a come back if you dig on the web.
The Walnut Creek CP/M Archive CD-ROM can be found here.
http://www.glitchwrks.com/2010/10/25/walnut-creek-cpm
Ben.




Re: More old stuff incoming

2018-12-18 Thread ben via cctalk

On 12/18/2018 2:08 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:



On Dec 18, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Electronics Plus via cctalk 
 wrote:

I talked to a recycler today, who said he told his workers to throw out 2000
Model F keyboards last week, but he doubts they did it.

I also asked him about 8088, 2086, and 386 computers. He said they go
straight to the grinder. I told him I will buy them.

Then an HP dealer contacted me, wants to know if I buy old HP stuff. I told
him Apollo and earlier. Let me know if there is something specific HP you
want.


Cindy, I’m curious, is there really a market for 8086/88, 286, and 386 
computers?  What are folks using them for?

Zane

I would take a guess for custom hardware or software that never migrated 
to Windows 13 or USB IIV. Ben.





Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

2018-12-16 Thread ben via cctalk

On 12/16/2018 8:00 PM, allison via cctech wrote:


In the end, current generation CMOS ram is the easy out, battery is
small, cost is small,  and
produces much less of the heat that is killer to systems.   The only
reason to do that is core
cost big if you can find it for your machine.  I can cost more if you
want to run an OS that
needs a fair amount of it.  AC as well as it can help heat the room and
also power as in
makes the meter spin.

So much lathering and speculation about what and how.  When the point is
totally missed.

Allison



What programs or operating sytems require non volatile core?
Did DEC have any BOOTSTRAP programs in prom for the 8?
A small prom and regular slow mos memory may be the solution.
Ben.





Re: Looking for a home for most issues of BYTE Magazine

2018-12-15 Thread ben via cctalk

On 12/15/2018 12:54 AM, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:

Zane, your comments are appreciated.

I have paid for subscriptions to ebooks that cost ~10 a month, and
they are OK for text, but when a schematic comes up, it sucks
(scribd) you cant zoom or increase the resolution. I also follow you
on your purchase experience with out of print and search. I am dumb
or spend hours on search, then find it and think everybody already
knows but me.  Most recent all the Dr. Dobbs and Byte, Pop Sci online
I only found recently.


That still leaves Kilobaud  scans.


I suppose there is money to be made if you can check in your morals.
I see all this (now) public domain type stuff (including Al's
bitsavers manuals) for sale on ebay DVDs. The unwashed will be
relieved from their dollars.


I better shower, so I can clean and EVIL.


Randy 


Ben.




Re: p112

2018-12-04 Thread ben via cctalk

On 12/4/2018 1:17 PM, Tony Nicholson via cctalk wrote:

Hello David

I saw your posting on the cctalk mailing list regarding RSX180.

It is Hector Peraza that's been tinkering with this.  He intends making the
full source-code available via SourceForge or GitHub but is still working
on preliminary web pages and documenting etc.  No doubt he will provide you
with more details.

I've been tinkering with a Z280 system designed by Bill Shen (the Z280RC on
the RetroBrew web site at
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=builderpages:plasmo:z280rc )
and have contacted Hector about porting it to the Z280.


That is the easy part, where is the 99 cent dumb terminal to go with it?
Ben.


Re: Text encoding Babel. Was Re: George Keremedjiev

2018-11-27 Thread ben via cctalk

On 11/27/2018 9:11 PM, Sean Conner via cctalk wrote


   But I can still load and read circa-1968-plain-text files without issue,
on a computer that didn't even exist at the time, using tools that didn't
exist at the time.  The same can't be said for a circa-1988-Microsoft-word
file.  It requires either the software of the time, or specialized software
that understands the format.



But where do find the 1968 plain text files?
Right now I am looking for free online books on computers
and computer science books in the 1971 to 1977 year range.
a fictional example "HAL 9000 programing" AI BOOTSTRAPPING WITH A LISP
1st edition. Useful knowledge for back then. "HAL 9000 programing"
HOW the AI BOOTSTRAPS windows 1000 in HOT JAVA 2001 edition. No so 
useful for historic knowledge.


Looking to write a simple integer language as I have no floating point
yet on 1973-1974 ish paper computer design. And yes it is 18 bits and
TTL. Right now I am programing in C for what little quick and dirty 
software I have written and digging around for ideas.


It would be nice if bitsavers could have the old 1st edition books.
The latest may sell but old knowledge is being lost.
Ben.



Re: Text encoding Babel. Was Re: George Keremedjiev

2018-11-27 Thread ben via cctalk

On 11/27/2018 12:47 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:

ASCII is a common way of encoding characters and control codes in the 
same binary pattern.


File formats are what collections of ASCII characters / control codes 
mean / do.


It also was designed for hard copy. Over strikes don't work well on a 
CRT screen.

Ben.




Re: Text encoding Babel. Was Re: George Keremedjiev

2018-11-26 Thread ben via cctalk

On 11/26/2018 9:26 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 4:28 AM Peter Corlett via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 07:59:13PM -0800, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
[...]

Alas, "current" computers use 8, 16, 32. They totally fail to understand

the

intrinsic benefits of 9, 12, 18, 24, and 36 bits.


Oh go on then, I'm curious. What are the benefits? Is it just that there
are
useful prime factors for bit-packing hacks? And if so, why not 30?



As I understand it, 36 bits was used as it could represent a signed 10
digit decimal number in binary; the  Frieden 10 digit calculator was the
"gold standard" of banking and financial institutions, so to compete in
that market, you computer had to be able to match the arithmetic standards.

-- Charles



I say 20 bits needs to be used more often.
Did anything really use all the control codes in ASCII?
Back then you got what the TTY printed.
Did any one ever come up a a character set for ALGOL?
Ben.





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