[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 at 22:46, Diane Bruce via cctalk wrote: > > sync;sync;sync > power off > > I remember it well. In my 1st journalist job, at PC Pro Magazine in 1995, I used that to turn off a review SPARC portable. My new boss was delighted and apparently, unbidden, I thereby proved my xNix credentials. :-) Good thing, really... My vi skills were minimal and they still are today. Didn't like it then, like it less now. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
On Saturday, March 23rd, 2024 at 16:35, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > > You say that like fsck is reliable now... > > There's a reason it's only one letter off. > > I've always wondered, . . . > "Feature" or "bug"? > Deliberate, or one of possibly many errors in development? I recall hearing somewhere else.net that it was management forcing it to be renamed because the original name was "fuck". And technically it's still supposed to be pronounced that way. The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
You say that like fsck is reliable now... On Sat, 23 Mar 2024, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: There's a reason it's only one letter off. I've always wondered, . . . "Feature" or "bug"? Deliberate, or one of possibly many errors in development? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
> You say that like fsck is reliable now... There's a reason it's only one letter off. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Premature optimization is the root of all evil. -- Donald Knuth
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
> On Mar 23, 2024, at 11:04 AM, Doc Shipley via cctalk > wrote: > > On 3/23/24 09:53, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> Yes. So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly >> critical to do it and do it right. I remember when I first heard about >> Unix, when at the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced >> Computation ran it, for their Arpanet connection. The story was that CAC >> was a good facility to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was >> built to house Illiac 4 before that machine was moved to a military facility >> in response to campus protests. So there was little worry about having to >> repair the file system manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't >> been created yet, or perhaps wasn't reliable yet. >> paul > > You say that like fsck is reliable now :-} Then again, mostly it's no longer relevant, given journaled file systems. paul
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
I remember it as kill -9 1 then sync halt Or sync sync halt On March 23, 2024 2:53:56 PM GMT, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > >> On Mar 22, 2024, at 6:38 PM, Diane Bruce via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 11:00:25PM +0100, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: >>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 10:54 PM Zane Healy via cctalk >> ... >>> Even v7 Unix didn't have halt or reboot. >> >> sync;sync;sync >> power off >> >> I remember it well. > >Yes. So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly critical >to do it and do it right. I remember when I first heard about Unix, when at >the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced Computation ran >it, for their Arpanet connection. The story was that CAC was a good facility >to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was built to house Illiac >4 before that machine was moved to a military facility in response to campus >protests. So there was little worry about having to repair the file system >manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't been created yet, or >perhaps wasn't reliable yet. > > paul >
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
On 3/23/24 09:53, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: Yes. So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly critical to do it and do it right. I remember when I first heard about Unix, when at the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced Computation ran it, for their Arpanet connection. The story was that CAC was a good facility to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was built to house Illiac 4 before that machine was moved to a military facility in response to campus protests. So there was little worry about having to repair the file system manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't been created yet, or perhaps wasn't reliable yet. paul You say that like fsck is reliable now Doc
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
> On Mar 22, 2024, at 6:38 PM, Diane Bruce via cctalk > wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 11:00:25PM +0100, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 10:54 PM Zane Healy via cctalk > ... >> Even v7 Unix didn't have halt or reboot. > > sync;sync;sync > power off > > I remember it well. Yes. So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly critical to do it and do it right. I remember when I first heard about Unix, when at the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced Computation ran it, for their Arpanet connection. The story was that CAC was a good facility to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was built to house Illiac 4 before that machine was moved to a military facility in response to campus protests. So there was little worry about having to repair the file system manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't been created yet, or perhaps wasn't reliable yet. paul
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 11:00:25PM +0100, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 10:54 PM Zane Healy via cctalk ... > Even v7 Unix didn't have halt or reboot. sync;sync;sync power off I remember it well. > > Warner > > > > Diane -- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db https://ottawa.place/@Dianora
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 10:54 PM Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > On Mar 21, 2024, at 6:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk > wrote: > > > > I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How > do I do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. > > > > Thanks! > > 73 Eugene w2hx > > In this respect it’s similar to many personal computer OS’s of the time > frame, in that you can simply turn it off. It’s a fantastic OS in its > simplicity, and a great way to learn about the PDP-11. > Even v7 Unix didn't have halt or reboot. Warner >
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
On Mar 21, 2024, at 6:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > > I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How do I > do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. > > Thanks! > 73 Eugene w2hx In this respect it’s similar to many personal computer OS’s of the time frame, in that you can simply turn it off. It’s a fantastic OS in its simplicity, and a great way to learn about the PDP-11. Zane
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
> On Mar 22, 2024, at 10:59 AM, Jerry Weiss wrote:
>
> I make sure that any disk squeeze is complete and other programs are
> quiescence.
Good point -- while the OS doesn't have a shutdown procedure, some application
and utilities don't want to be interrupted in the middle of specific
operations, and "disk squeeze" is one example of that.
The RT11 file system has the nice property that it doesn't mind being
interrupted at any time; there is no such thing as a file system cleanup
("fsck" or the like) and inherently no need for one.
paul
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
I make sure that any disk squeeze is complete and other programs are quiescence. Then I just halt the processor or emulator. Jerry On 3/22/24 8:23 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Mar 21, 2024, at 9:35 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: Ok, Bill. Still feels strange. No need to park the HD head either I guess. DEC disks do that themselves, at power down. paul
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
> On Mar 21, 2024, at 9:35 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > > Ok, Bill. Still feels strange. No need to park the HD head either I guess. DEC disks do that themselves, at power down. paul
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
Ok, Bill. Still feels strange. No need to park the HD head either I guess. Please take a look at this picture. Knowing nothing, I did a .SHOW ALL and this list of JOBs showed up. Are these not background processes? https://w2hx.com/x/VintageComp/micropdp/20240321_203329.jpg Thanks 73 Eugene W2HX My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos -Original Message- From: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 9:23 PM To: W2HX via cctalk Cc: Bill Gunshannon Subject: [cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11? On 3/21/2024 9:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How do I > do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. > > Thanks! > 73 Eugene w2hx > Turn off the power switch. Unlike most other OSes people here are familiar with there are no background processes running on RT-11. bill KB3YV
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
On 3/21/2024 9:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How do I do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. Thanks! 73 Eugene w2hx Turn off the power switch. Unlike most other OSes people here are familiar with there are no background processes running on RT-11. bill KB3YV
