Re: 1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[John H. Reinhardt via cctalk]

On 8/25/2020 3:00 PM, David Brownlee via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 at 19:46, John Klos via cctalk
 wrote:

I was going to comment that the only way I could see a 1U VAX was if
someone rack mounted a 4000/VLC.  Is that the stock VLC power supply?
My cluster doesn?t even have that much space.

What do you use to go from SATA to SCSI (SCSI-1 even)?

It's a standard 1U power supply with a custom adapter. You can see it
better here:

https://twitter.com/AnachronistJohn/status/1294725819038752768

I use a SATA to IDE adapter, then an IDE to UW-SCSI adapter, then an
UW-SCSI cable and terminator, then finally a 68 to 50 pin adapter.

The previous drive was a Samsung SSD, but I think that constant, non-stop
swap use wore it out. This was the smallest new spinning rust drive I
could find.

SCSI2SD would work for a while, but, again, swap usage would wear out an
SD card in no time, I'm sure.

Wow, I'm surprised the VLC could generate enough traffic to wear out
an SSD - compared to a modern box running heavy compiles and suchlike.

Very cool box :)

Thinking about SCSI devices for my collection of older boxes - I
wonder if rascsi set to use the pi's RAM rather than an SD card to
provide a swap device would work out.
Actually, could be interesting to run a modern *nix box with the right
type of scsi adapter in target mode and have it "export" devices and
or ramdrives to older boxes...

David

Make sure you use a higher quality SD card.  Something labeled "High Endurance" or 
"Industrial".  They have internal wear leveling firmware to spread the writes/erases out 
over the memory array and help keep it from getting any hot spots that wear out quickly.  It won't 
last forever but it will help it last longer.

Examples: High Endurance: 


Industrial: 

It may seem wasteful, but if planning on long life for an SD card that is the 
O/S drive then get something big and only use a portion of it so that the wear 
leveling can work with more.  So if you want a 16GB disk, then get a 32GB or 
even 64GB SD card and use SCSI2SD's internal partitioning to only use 1/2 or 
1/4 of the full drive.

That's my theory anyway.  I'll let you know in a year or three if it worked. I 
have SCSI2SD in two AlphaServer DS10's, a MicroVAX 3100 and a PDP-11.  I also 
use the same theory in a couple Raspberry Pi's.  The Pi's use log2ram for the 
/var/log files to help also. They don't actually swap much.

--
John H. Reinhardt

Re: 1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[David Brownlee via cctalk]

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 at 19:46, John Klos via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> > I was going to comment that the only way I could see a 1U VAX was if
> > someone rack mounted a 4000/VLC.  Is that the stock VLC power supply?
> > My cluster doesn?t even have that much space.
> >
> > What do you use to go from SATA to SCSI (SCSI-1 even)?
>
> It's a standard 1U power supply with a custom adapter. You can see it
> better here:
>
> https://twitter.com/AnachronistJohn/status/1294725819038752768
>
> I use a SATA to IDE adapter, then an IDE to UW-SCSI adapter, then an
> UW-SCSI cable and terminator, then finally a 68 to 50 pin adapter.
>
> The previous drive was a Samsung SSD, but I think that constant, non-stop
> swap use wore it out. This was the smallest new spinning rust drive I
> could find.
>
> SCSI2SD would work for a while, but, again, swap usage would wear out an
> SD card in no time, I'm sure.

Wow, I'm surprised the VLC could generate enough traffic to wear out
an SSD - compared to a modern box running heavy compiles and suchlike.

Very cool box :)

Thinking about SCSI devices for my collection of older boxes - I
wonder if rascsi set to use the pi's RAM rather than an SD card to
provide a swap device would work out.
Actually, could be interesting to run a modern *nix box with the right
type of scsi adapter in target mode and have it "export" devices and
or ramdrives to older boxes...

David

Re: 1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On Aug 25, 2020, at 11:46 AM, John Klos via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
>> I was going to comment that the only way I could see a 1U VAX was if someone 
>> rack mounted a 4000/VLC.  Is that the stock VLC power supply? My cluster 
>> doesn?t even have that much space.
>> 
>> What do you use to go from SATA to SCSI (SCSI-1 even)?
> 
> It's a standard 1U power supply with a custom adapter. You can see it better 
> here:
> 
> https://twitter.com/AnachronistJohn/status/1294725819038752768
> 
> I use a SATA to IDE adapter, then an IDE to UW-SCSI adapter, then an UW-SCSI 
> cable and terminator, then finally a 68 to 50 pin adapter.
> 
> The previous drive was a Samsung SSD, but I think that constant, non-stop 
> swap use wore it out. This was the smallest new spinning rust drive I could 
> find.
> 
> SCSI2SD would work for a while, but, again, swap usage would wear out an SD 
> card in no time, I'm sure.
> 
> John

Thanks!  That is good to know, as the power supply in my VLC has issues.  As it 
stands, the VLC was replaced with a VAXstation 4000/60 a friend gave me.  I’m 
still using DEC drives in a BA350 (originally a DEC BA353).  At some point, I 
should simply move it to a VM, as I’ve done with the rest of my DEC systems.  
I’d like to convert either the VAXstation 4000/vlc or the 4000/60 back to being 
a desktop.  Right now the 4000/60 is mounted in a rack, and is my DECnet Area 
Router.

Zane

Re: 1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[John Klos via cctalk]

I was going to comment that the only way I could see a 1U VAX was if 
someone rack mounted a 4000/VLC.  Is that the stock VLC power supply? 
My cluster doesn?t even have that much space.


What do you use to go from SATA to SCSI (SCSI-1 even)?


It's a standard 1U power supply with a custom adapter. You can see it 
better here:


https://twitter.com/AnachronistJohn/status/1294725819038752768

I use a SATA to IDE adapter, then an IDE to UW-SCSI adapter, then an 
UW-SCSI cable and terminator, then finally a 68 to 50 pin adapter.


The previous drive was a Samsung SSD, but I think that constant, non-stop 
swap use wore it out. This was the smallest new spinning rust drive I 
could find.


SCSI2SD would work for a while, but, again, swap usage would wear out an 
SD card in no time, I'm sure.


John

Re: 1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2020-08-24 23:21, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
> On 24/08/2020 21:34, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
>> On Aug 24, 2020, at 7:06 AM, John Klos via cctalk
>>  wrote:
 OK, I'll bite ;-)
 What is it exactly?
 There was a rtVAX on VME, which could be easily configured as 1U, but
 what do you have?
>>> https://twitter.com/AnachronistJohn/status/1291815674570891264
>>>
>>> It's a VAXstation 4000/30 (also known as VLC) with a 500 gig SATA
>>> drive in a 1U case. It's colocated in a proper datacenter right now :D
>>>
>>> John
>> I was going to comment that the only way I could see a 1U VAX was if
>> someone rack mounted a 4000/VLC.  Is that the stock VLC power supply? 
>> My cluster doesn’t even have that much space.
>>
>> Zane
>>
>>
> What do you use to go from SATA to SCSI (SCSI-1 even)?

I (not John ;-) ) switched on my 4000s to the SCSI2SD, and I'm pretty
happy with them. 6 partitions on one SD, and works nicely ...

Re: 1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2020-08-24 16:06, John Klos via cctalk wrote:
>> OK, I'll bite ;-)
>> What is it exactly?
>> There was a rtVAX on VME, which could be easily configured as 1U, but
>> what do you have?
> 
> https://twitter.com/AnachronistJohn/status/1291815674570891264
> 
> It's a VAXstation 4000/30 (also known as VLC) with a 500 gig SATA drive
> in a 1U case. It's colocated in a proper datacenter right now :D

Interesting, I have (after moving) some VLCs with broken fronts,
so his would be nice to pu them in a rack ;-)

Re: 1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[Antonio Carlini via cctalk]

On 24/08/2020 21:34, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

On Aug 24, 2020, at 7:06 AM, John Klos via cctalk  wrote:

OK, I'll bite ;-)
What is it exactly?
There was a rtVAX on VME, which could be easily configured as 1U, but
what do you have?

https://twitter.com/AnachronistJohn/status/1291815674570891264

It's a VAXstation 4000/30 (also known as VLC) with a 500 gig SATA drive in a 1U 
case. It's colocated in a proper datacenter right now :D

John

I was going to comment that the only way I could see a 1U VAX was if someone 
rack mounted a 4000/VLC.  Is that the stock VLC power supply?  My cluster 
doesn’t even have that much space.

Zane



What do you use to go from SATA to SCSI (SCSI-1 even)?

Antonio

--
Antonio Carlini
anto...@acarlini.com

Re: 1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On Aug 24, 2020, at 7:06 AM, John Klos via cctalk  wrote:
> 
>> OK, I'll bite ;-)
>> What is it exactly?
>> There was a rtVAX on VME, which could be easily configured as 1U, but
>> what do you have?
> 
> https://twitter.com/AnachronistJohn/status/1291815674570891264
> 
> It's a VAXstation 4000/30 (also known as VLC) with a 500 gig SATA drive in a 
> 1U case. It's colocated in a proper datacenter right now :D
> 
> John

I was going to comment that the only way I could see a 1U VAX was if someone 
rack mounted a 4000/VLC.  Is that the stock VLC power supply?  My cluster 
doesn’t even have that much space.

Zane

Re: 1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[John Klos via cctalk]

OK, I'll bite ;-)
What is it exactly?
There was a rtVAX on VME, which could be easily configured as 1U, but
what do you have?


https://twitter.com/AnachronistJohn/status/1291815674570891264

It's a VAXstation 4000/30 (also known as VLC) with a 500 gig SATA drive in 
a 1U case. It's colocated in a proper datacenter right now :D


John

1U VAX, was: Re: Computer stores

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2020-08-23 21:06, John Klos via cctalk wrote:

> Relatedly, I have what I think is the only 1U VAX in the world. I've
> mentioned this in many places, but if someone says I'm wrong and shows
> me an example of another, it would please me, not upset me. I'll have
> learned of another :)

OK, I'll bite ;-)
What is it exactly?
There was a rtVAX on VME, which could be easily configured as 1U, but
what do you have?