Re: Adventures online
> When you've got that set up, post the link on Slashdot, they love text > adventures. I seen nothing there about the 1977 copy of Zork. If you're a Slashdot regular, maybe post it there?
Re: Adventures online
On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 12:59:51AM +, dwight via cctalk wrote: > I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O processor. That is > about all I can think of. Contemporary PCs satisfy that description: GPUs are the most visible I/O processor, and all of the other bus interfaces such as SATA and USB need at least a microcontroller to speak the relevant protocol. What is old is new again...
RE: Adventures online
Dwight, Well oddly all the "PC" variants so the XT/370, AT/370, P390 & P390/E meet that definition, in that they are 370 or 390 class CPUs that use the host PC to handle the IO... So the host PC is in effect the IO processor... Dave > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of dwight via cctalk > Sent: 24 July 2020 02:00 > To: Grant Taylor ; General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Adventures online > > I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O processor. That is about > all I can think of. > Dwight > > > From: cctalk on behalf of Grant Taylor via > cctalk > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:06 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Adventures online > > On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > How about the XT/370? or XT/360? > > (I couldn't afford one) > > As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or > XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe. > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die
Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 9:00 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 11:47 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after all. > > > Inspired by, not "based on". > > ADVENT was written in Fortran 66. I'm not sure what Crowther used > originally, but Don Woods version was developed on a DECsystem-10 running > TOPS-10. Well, it was darned near 50 years ago, so I can only recall what was on the DECSystem10 tape, except for very general details. It only took a couple of days to re-work in CDC FORTRAN and I lost interest quickly. I do recall that there were a number of DEC FORTRAN "peculiarities" that had to be ironed out. I didn't even bother to get it working on the CDC STAR even though I had access to resources. I believe that there's even a CP/M-80 version wandering around. I've got a copy of that somewhere. The only other "serious" game I recall fooling with was Chess 3.0 to run under the Zodiac operating system. It used its own peculiar display driver, CHD, which had to be EDITLIB-ed into the system library, because it was played on the DD60 operator's console.. A great time-killer if you've got dedicated block time and are waiting for something to complete. Even on a 6600, it really sucked up CPU time. Of course, now I'm speaking gibberish to most of the audience, so I'll shut up. --Chuck
Re: Adventures online
Eric Smith wrote: > Infocom games were written in ZIL (based on MDL), and developed on a > DECSYSTEM-20. Presumably Infocom had a ZIP for the -20, but they > didn't publicly release that. Maybe this. https://github.com/PDP-10/its-vault/blob/master/twenex/zork/z/zip.mud.96
Re: Adventures online
On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 11:47 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after all. Inspired by, not "based on". ADVENT was written in Fortran 66. I'm not sure what Crowther used originally, but Don Woods version was developed on a DECsystem-10 running TOPS-10. The original Zork/Dungeon was written in MDL on a PDP-10 running ITS, and only later "translated from MDL into FORTRAN IV by a somewhat paranoid DEC engineer who prefers to remain anonymous." Infocom games were written in ZIL (based on MDL), and developed on a DECSYSTEM-20. Presumably Infocom had a ZIP for the -20, but they didn't publicly release that.
Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/2020 6:59 PM, dwight via cctalk wrote: I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O processor. That is about all I can think of. Dwight Fontpanel display more than 1KW. :) Ben.
Re: Adventures online
Ahhh, Just m,aybe it is simply an I/O processor with different firmware - That would run zork just fine :-P Kindest regards, Doug Jackson em: d...@doughq.com ph: 0414 986878 Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net --- Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for your own use. Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard. Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal liability. :-) Be nice to your parents. Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you happy. ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:22 AM Toby Thain via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2020-07-23 8:59 p.m., dwight via cctalk wrote: > > I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O processor. That is > about all I can think of. > > Dwight > > > > > So, a BeagleBone then > > > > > > From: cctalk on behalf of Grant Taylor > via cctalk > > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:06 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Adventures online > > > > On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > >> How about the XT/370? or XT/360? > >> (I couldn't afford one) > > > > As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or > > XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe. > > > > > > > > -- > > Grant. . . . > > unix || die > > > >
Re: Adventures online
On 2020-07-23 8:59 p.m., dwight via cctalk wrote: > I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O processor. That is > about all I can think of. > Dwight > So, a BeagleBone then > > From: cctalk on behalf of Grant Taylor via > cctalk > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:06 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Adventures online > > On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >> How about the XT/370? or XT/360? >> (I couldn't afford one) > > As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or > XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe. > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die >
Re: Adventures online
I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O processor. That is about all I can think of. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Grant Taylor via cctalk Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:06 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Adventures online On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > How about the XT/370? or XT/360? > (I couldn't afford one) As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: How about the XT/370? or XT/360? (I couldn't afford one) As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Adventures online
Q: What is the definition of mainframe? On Thu, 23 Jul 2020, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: Something you buy from IBM? ;-) I'm going to say something that runs a mainframe OS. This includes IBM's zPDT & RDz which are software emulators. It also includes a P/390-E, et al., card that has a physical S/390 processor. I bet that Hercules qualifies here too. But that's an /emulated/ mainframe. Much like zPDT & RDz. How about the XT/370? or XT/360? (I couldn't afford one)
Re: Adventures online
> > Q: What is the definition of mainframe? > > Lose a scope in it? > > Need a forklift and a union moving crew? > > Something you buy from IBM? ;-) *pats POWER6, which is not a mainframe* ... or for that matter, was purchased from IBM, because they wouldn't sell me one. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Some days you're the bug, and some days you're the windshield. -
Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 11:24 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Is there a reason why he answered the OS, but not what the system was? Having interacted with @bmoshix, I'm taking his "mainframe" answer to mean that it's probably either (one of) his zPDT / RDz (IBM's answer to Hercule) -or- one of the physical mainframes that he has access to / time on. I'm now sort of betting that it's Linux running in an LPAR or as a z/VM guest. You can probably glean more information about the mainframes that @bmoshix owns and / or has access to by watching his videos on YouTube. What sort of mainframe would somebody be ashamed of? I doubt that he's ashamed of it in any way. Most of us would be proud of ownership of ANY brand or model of mainframe. Yep. Q: What is the definition of mainframe? Lose a scope in it? Need a forklift and a union moving crew? Something you buy from IBM? ;-) I'm going to say something that runs a mainframe OS. This includes IBM's zPDT & RDz which are software emulators. It also includes a P/390-E, et al., card that has a physical S/390 processor. I bet that Hercules qualifies here too. But that's an /emulated/ mainframe. Much like zPDT & RDz. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Adventures online
Well, they started with the PDP-10 ZORK, and used PDP-10 (architecture) systems to develop many of the others... Rich Alderson ex-Living Computers: Museum + Labs http://www.panix.com/~alderson/ Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 23, 2020, at 10:26, Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk > wrote: > > Chuck Guzis wrote: >> Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one would use a >> PDP-10. > > It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games. >
Re: Adventures online
> On Jul 23, 2020, at 10:47, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > On 7/23/20 10:25 AM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote: >> Chuck Guzis wrote: >>> Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one would use a >>> PDP-10. >> >> It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games. > > Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after all. I remember porting > the PDP-10 FORTRAN to CDC 6000 SCOPE 3.4. I got the source from a friend > who was a DEC CE. After converting the source tape, the "save game" > was probably the biggest difference in implementation. I used FTN > (FORTRAN extended) to do the deed, rather than RUN. > > After the game had been distributed at CDC SVLOPS, there was a concerted > effort by management to purge the thing from all of the permanent file > catalogs. Luckily, management never discovered who introduced the game > in the first place... > > So yes, Adventure/Colossal Cave did run on an honest big mainframe. > > I never played the game much myself, as I had access to the source, so I > knew the innards of the game. > > --Chuck Loosely based, of course. And Bob Supnik’s FORTRAN version was also ported to VM/CMS, so that’s two mainframes. Rich Alderson ex-Living Computers: Museum + Labs http://www.panix.com/~alderson/ Sent from my iPhone
Re: Adventures online
On 2020-07-22 10:52 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > Just put up a big pdp11 and be done with it. Hm. Running on Simh a fully > loaded 11 should handle just about anything the internet could toss at > it... > > C > When you've got that set up, post the link on Slashdot, they love text adventures. --Toby
Re: Adventures online
How about running MDL Zork on ITS for historical accuracy? I'm scheming with some of the implementers to take steps in that direction.
Re: Adventures online
Chuck Guzis wrote: > Lars Brinkhoff wrote: >> Chuck Guzis wrote: >>> Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one would use a >>> PDP-10. >> It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games. > Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after all. Rich Alderson wrote: > Well, they started with the PDP-10 ZORK, and used PDP-10 > (architecture) systems to develop many of the others... Based on, started with, used to develop, all true of course. Still, I wouldn't exactly say a PDP-10 host is a requirement for historical accuracy to run e.g. Seastalker. An Apple II would do fine.
Re: Adventures online
Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one would use a PDP-10. True, and when I thought about it I realized the problem: I could create a GAMES directory on my RSX11m+, but if multiple users logged in wouldn't they step on each other? Or would it work because each user would have their own ADV.T0, ADV.T1, etc process. Hm.
Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 10:25 AM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote: > Chuck Guzis wrote: >> Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one would use a >> PDP-10. > > It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games. Forgot to mention that access to the game was via SCOPE's INTERCOM. --Chuck
Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 10:25 AM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote: > Chuck Guzis wrote: >> Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one would use a >> PDP-10. > > It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games. Infocom's games were based on Crowther, after all. I remember porting the PDP-10 FORTRAN to CDC 6000 SCOPE 3.4. I got the source from a friend who was a DEC CE. After converting the source tape, the "save game" was probably the biggest difference in implementation. I used FTN (FORTRAN extended) to do the deed, rather than RUN. After the game had been distributed at CDC SVLOPS, there was a concerted effort by management to purge the thing from all of the permanent file catalogs. Luckily, management never discovered who introduced the game in the first place... So yes, Adventure/Colossal Cave did run on an honest big mainframe. I never played the game much myself, as I had access to the source, so I knew the innards of the game. --Chuck
Re: Adventures online
Chuck Guzis wrote: > Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one would use a > PDP-10. It's not Crowther's Adventure, but the Infocom games.
Re: Adventures online
I asked @bmoshix what the system was. I've not gotten a reply yet. On Thu, 23 Jul 2020, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: @bmoshix replied that it's Linux running on a mainframe. Is there a reason why he answered the OS, but not what the system was? What sort of mainframe would somebody be ashamed of? Most of us would be proud of ownership of ANY brand or model of mainframe. Q: What is the definition of mainframe? Lose a scope in it? Need a forklift and a union moving crew?
Re: Adventures online
On 7/23/20 9:32 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > On 7/22/20 11:32 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: >> I asked @bmoshix what the system was. I've not gotten a reply yet. > > @bmoshix replied that it's Linux running on a mainframe. > Well, if one wanted to stay historically accurate, one would use a PDP-10. Obviously, that isn't the case. --Chuck
Re: Adventures online
On 7/22/20 11:32 PM, Grant Taylor wrote: I asked @bmoshix what the system was. I've not gotten a reply yet. @bmoshix replied that it's Linux running on a mainframe. I half way expect that it's Docker running on z/OS. So, apparently not Docker running on z/OS. It could be Docker on Linux on Z, but I'd be mildly surprised by that. I'm mildly surprised. I doubt it's Linux on a more typical system. Though the following file name in the dump makes me think it's AMD-64 architecture. /usr/local/go/src/runtime/asm_amd64.s Now I'm more confused as to why asm_amd64.s, something I assume is related to x86_64 ~> PC (compatible) is being used. I wonder if the copies of the games that @bmoshix is running were written for a mainframe or a PC (compatible). The latter makes more sense with the asm_amd64.s and comments about installing these games on a PC. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Adventures online
On 7/22/20 8:35 PM, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote: Sadly, the original tweet doesn't mention what mainframe - Somebody did ask, and there was no response I could see. I asked @bmoshix what the system was. I've not gotten a reply yet. The error messages suggest it's some sort of Linux system using Docker containers, so it's not OS/360 :-) I half way expect that it's Docker running on z/OS. I suspect given that it's running out of memory, that it's yet another linux box. It could be Docker on Linux on Z, but I'd be mildly surprised by that. I doubt it's Linux on a more typical system. Though the following file name in the dump makes me think it's AMD-64 architecture. /usr/local/go/src/runtime/asm_amd64.s -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: Adventures online
On 7/22/20 7:52 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > Just put up a big pdp11 and be done with it. A PDP11 might be a "mainframe" (personally, I'd call it a minicomputer), but in the world of mainframes, it's hardly "big". FWIW, Chuck
Re: Adventures online
Just put up a big pdp11 and be done with it. Hm. Running on Simh a fully loaded 11 should handle just about anything the internet could toss at it... C On 7/22/2020 10:35 PM, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote: Sadly, the original tweet doesn't mention what mainframe - Somebody did ask, and there was no response I could see. The error messages suggest it's some sort of Linux system using Docker containers, so it's not OS/360 :-) I suspect given that it's running out of memory, that it's yet another linux box. Kindest regards, Doug Jackson em: d...@doughq.com ph: 0414 986878 Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net --- Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for your own use. Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard. Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal liability. :-) Be nice to your parents. Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you happy. ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:50 AM Kevin Lee via cctalk wrote: Ask the tweet included in the initial posting.. I have nothing to do with it .. cheers On 22 Jul 2020, at 23:15, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:52:14PM +0200, 821--- via cctalk wrote: Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe! Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure games on a mainframe https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1 What make/model mainframe are they running on, and what OS is it running? -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Adventures online
Sadly, the original tweet doesn't mention what mainframe - Somebody did ask, and there was no response I could see. The error messages suggest it's some sort of Linux system using Docker containers, so it's not OS/360 :-) I suspect given that it's running out of memory, that it's yet another linux box. Kindest regards, Doug Jackson em: d...@doughq.com ph: 0414 986878 Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net --- Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for your own use. Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard. Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal liability. :-) Be nice to your parents. Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you happy. ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:50 AM Kevin Lee via cctalk wrote: > Ask the tweet included in the initial posting.. > I have nothing to do with it .. cheers > > > > On 22 Jul 2020, at 23:15, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:52:14PM +0200, 821--- via cctalk wrote: > > > >> Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe! > >> Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure > games > >> on a mainframe > >> > >> https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1 > > > > What make/model mainframe are they running on, and what OS is it running? > > > > > > -- > > > > Kevin > > http://www.RawFedDogs.net > > http://www.Lassie.xyz > > http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org > > Bruceville, TX > > > > What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! > > Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum. > >
Re: Adventures online
Ask the tweet included in the initial posting.. I have nothing to do with it .. cheers > On 22 Jul 2020, at 23:15, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk > wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:52:14PM +0200, 821--- via cctalk wrote: > >> Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe! >> Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure games >> on a mainframe >> >> https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1 > > What make/model mainframe are they running on, and what OS is it running? > > > -- > > Kevin > http://www.RawFedDogs.net > http://www.Lassie.xyz > http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org > Bruceville, TX > > What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! > Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Adventures online
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 09:52:14PM +0200, 821--- via cctalk wrote: > Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe! > Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure games > on a mainframe > > https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1 What make/model mainframe are they running on, and what OS is it running? -- Kevin http://www.RawFedDogs.net http://www.Lassie.xyz http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org Bruceville, TX What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
RE: Adventures online
> Well still glad its getting used :) > cheers So am I except I want to use it as well LOL!
Re: Adventures online
Well still glad its getting used :) cheers > On 22 Jul 2020, at 22:37, Ali via cctalk wrote: > >> Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe! >> Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure >> games on a mainframe >> >> https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1 > > > Too popular for its own good. Currently failing due to a lack of memory. > > -Ali >
RE: Adventures online
> Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe! > Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure > games on a mainframe > > https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1 Too popular for its own good. Currently failing due to a lack of memory. -Ali
Adventures online
Almost all InfoCom adventure games now online running on a mainframe! Telnet to 35.209.67.107 (guest/guest1) and play text mode adventure games on a mainframe https://twitter.com/bmoshix/status/1285905078373814273/photo/1
