Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> So, I've been working for a while on a page about DEC indicator panels (the
> standardized 36x4 light arrays which go into a 19" rack, with an inlay to
> customize it to a particular device). It's online now, here:
>
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html
>
> Does anyone happen to have a good image of an RK08 panel, or an RF11, which I
> can use here?
>
> Even better, does anyone know of, or have images of, panels which are not
> listed here? (I am not including the unknown 'RK' panel in the RSTS document,
> which will be the subject of a separate message.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Noel

Noel

I have taken better pics of the pdp-15 panels.

FP15: http://www.corestore.org/FP15ind.jpg
RP15: http://www.corestore.org/RP15ind.jpg
TC59: http://www.corestore.org/TC59ind.jpg

I'll take some more when I'm at the point where I can light them up :-)

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> > Oooh, thanks ever so much for turning that up!!!
>
> OK, I have added them to the page - I lost a little resolution rotating them
> to be level, but there's still more than enough to recogize them, and mostly
> read them.
>
> > So that mystery panel seems to be a general panel, more associated with
> > the CPU than anything else; one line does seem to be the reader, but
> > one quadrant is the KT15 memory management, one is the KA15 priority
> > interrupt system, and there's general CPU/system stuff throughout
>
> With that, I think we have most of the PDP-15 panels (although the VT15 image
> is still pretty crummy). That leaves only these two:
>
>   http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/DEC/15_05.jpg
>
> although that looks like early marketing material, so perhaps those panels 
> neve
> made it into production machines?
>
> I wonder if one of them is a BD15 (whatever that might be) - or if that's
> the name for the CPU panel (above)?

A further contribution; a much better shot of the panel from my RP11:

http://www.corestore.org/RP11ind.jpg

If you want pics of the entire controllers with the panels installed
please let me know.

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: Mike Ross: Friday, August 19, 2016 8:53 PM

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 1:05 AM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:

I have one of those:
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/typeset/typeset.php

My notes say it's a PA36.  It's not buried too deeply; I could try to find
the nameplate if need be.


Almost right. It's a PA63. 


You are correct, of course.


ID:

http://www.corestore.org/PA63-2.jpg


Mine seems to have a slightly different metal plate, with "0205240" where 
the SN should be:

http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/typeset/PA63.jpg

   Vince 

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 1:05 AM, Vincent Slyngstad
 wrote:
> From: Mike Ross: Friday, August 19, 2016 1:42 AM
>>
>> OK I still can't get at the box; it's apparently buried deep. So can't
>> confirm what the label calls it. But here it is and the panel on the
>> front:
>>
>> http://corestore.org/Decbox.jpg
>
>
> I have one of those:
> http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/typeset/typeset.php
>
> My notes say it's a PA36.  It's not buried too deeply; I could try to find
> the nameplate if need be.

Almost right. It's a PA63. Official description "6-Channel
Reader/Punch Multiplexer"


Indicator panel:

http://www.corestore.org/PA63-1.jpg

ID:

http://www.corestore.org/PA63-2.jpg

Noel feel free to snag that for the pdp-8 section!

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Noel Chiappa]

> Oooh, thanks ever so much for turning that up!!!

OK, I have added them to the page - I lost a little resolution rotating them
to be level, but there's still more than enough to recogize them, and mostly
read them.

> So that mystery panel seems to be a general panel, more associated with
> the CPU than anything else; one line does seem to be the reader, but
> one quadrant is the KT15 memory management, one is the KA15 priority
> interrupt system, and there's general CPU/system stuff throughout

With that, I think we have most of the PDP-15 panels (although the VT15 image
is still pretty crummy). That leaves only these two:

  http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/DEC/15_05.jpg

although that looks like early marketing material, so perhaps those panels neve
made it into production machines?

I wonder if one of them is a BD15 (whatever that might be) - or if that's
the name for the CPU panel (above)?

Noel

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Mike Ross

>> It seems to be always near the CPU ... there are only a few
>> possibilities: BA15 (paper tape controller), DW15A (bus converter),
>> KE15 (extended arithmetic), MM15-A and MK15-A (memory). It might also
>> be a BD15 ... since that was listed as having an insert for it.

It turns out the KE15 registers are available on the main console, with a
setting on the rotary 'select registers to display' switch.

> I'm not aware of any memory indicator panels associated with
> any pdp-15 configuration

I was just being complete/thorough... :-)

> Bingo!
> BA15 & TC15 (and many other pics)

Oooh, thanks ever so much for turning that up!!!

So that mystery panel seems to be a general panel, more associated with the

but one quadrant is the KT15 memory management, one is the KA15 priority
interrupt system, and there's general CPU/system stuff throughout (memory
parity, power fail, instruction register).

I'm not sure what it's formal name might be (I don't think it can be BA15,
given all the CPU stuff that's in it). Very odd that the User's Handbook
doesn't cover it when it covers the KT15, the KA15, etc, etc; the print set
might be informative (now that I can see what's on that panel).

Noel

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 4:36 AM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> > From: Al Kossow
>
> > we have one
> > ...
> > i'll request access to it to shoot the panel
>
> Excellent! That's currently the worst image of all of the ones on the page,
> so a good one will really count. Thanks!
>
> (Although I am a bit curious at to why the Museum's Web site doesn't offer
> the option of larger images? If so, that would have been all I needed - the
> existing image is square on from the front, so if larger, that would have
> been perfect.)
>
> I anyone has a TC15, the existing picture of that one is also pretty bad,
> (hint, hint :-).
>
> > there's a cool picture of a PDP-15 here:
> > http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/gallery/ral/orig/r12588.jpg
>
> Yeah, I think that image (definitely that machine) was discussed in a prior
> message in this thread. That image shows the RF15 on the left, the VT15 on
> the right, and that one in the middle is the unidentified mystery one we have
> a bunch of images of.

Bingo!

BA15 & TC15 (and many other pics)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/102693653878217706883/albums/6273551519661666817?cfem=1

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Al Kossow

> we have one
> ...
> i'll request access to it to shoot the panel

Excellent! That's currently the worst image of all of the ones on the page,
so a good one will really count. Thanks!

(Although I am a bit curious at to why the Museum's Web site doesn't offer
the option of larger images? If so, that would have been all I needed - the
existing image is square on from the front, so if larger, that would have
been perfect.)

I anyone has a TC15, the existing picture of that one is also pretty bad,
(hint, hint :-).

> there's a cool picture of a PDP-15 here:
> http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/gallery/ral/orig/r12588.jpg

Yeah, I think that image (definitely that machine) was discussed in a prior
message in this thread. That image shows the RF15 on the left, the VT15 on
the right, and that one in the middle is the unidentified mystery one we have
a bunch of images of.

Noel

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: Mike Ross: Friday, August 19, 2016 1:42 AM

OK I still can't get at the box; it's apparently buried deep. So can't
confirm what the label calls it. But here it is and the panel on the
front:

http://corestore.org/Decbox.jpg


I have one of those:
http://www.so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/typeset/typeset.php

My notes say it's a PA36.  It's not buried too deeply; I could try to find 
the nameplate if need be.


   Vince 

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mattis Lind]

2016-08-19 9:13 GMT+02:00 :

> Noel said:
> > (seems to include a D/A, from what little I can find
> > on it online)
>
> I have that A/D unit ('A-D CONVERTER' as it says on the panel) from when I
> collected the Fox 2/10. It's complete as far as I can tell. I can take some
> photos of it, if any interest.
>

Here is a picture of our AF01 frontpanel: http://i.imgur.com/iyvZsr5.png.
The AA01 D/A converter has no frontpanel like the AF01.


>
> Also a belated thanks to yourself and others for the 11/15 vs 11/20
> differences,
> very interesting.
>
> Steve.
>
>

/Mattis

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:
>
>
> On 8/17/16 2:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote:
>
>> I also have an odd box... it's pdp-8/L in style but housed several
>> sets of boards for controlling multiple paper tape readers/punches
>> IIRC... can't recall the DEC designator.
>
> PR68, used in typesetting.

OK I still can't get at the box; it's apparently buried deep. So can't
confirm what the label calls it. But here it is and the panel on the
front:

http://corestore.org/Decbox.jpg

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[steven]

Noel said:
> (seems to include a D/A, from what little I can find
> on it online)

I have that A/D unit ('A-D CONVERTER' as it says on the panel) from when I
collected the Fox 2/10. It's complete as far as I can tell. I can take some
photos of it, if any interest.

Also a belated thanks to yourself and others for the 11/15 vs 11/20 differences,
very interesting.

Steve.

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 5:02 AM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> > From: Mattis Lind

>
> The other one seems to be the same as this one:
>
> > http://www.hal1.se/Rolfs_web/Rolfs_images/1975_1/pages/7503%2003.htm
> >
> > The panel to the left is RF15 and the right is TC15. But what is the
> > middle one?
>
> which is in quite a few PDP-15 images, but still un-identified.
>
> It seems to be always near the CPU, so perhaps it's a panel for the memory
> management, or something like that? I've looked through some of the manuals
> on BitSavers, and I've yet to turn it up, although the block diagram on page
> 2-3 of the PDP-15 Installation Manual shows an 'indicator [panel]' (no
> further info on it, alas) in that location, which is probably it.
>
> There aren't that many devices in that system, so there are only a few
> possibilities: BA15 (paper tape controller), DW15A (bus converter), KE15
> (extended arithmetic), MM15-A and MK15-A (memory). It might also be a BD15,
> whatever that might be (seems to include a D/A, from what little I can find
> on it online), since that was listed as having an insert for it.
>
> Noel

I'm reasonably sure that's connected with the original PC15 high-speed
paper tape controller. On the XVM systems I have the paper tape
function is integrated in the BA15 Peripheral Expander (a small
collection of boards which lives at the bottom of the CPU rack) and
which doesn't have any indicator panel. I'm not aware of any memory
indicator panels associated with any pdp-15 configuration but I could
be wrong!

Oh and there's a better pic of the RF15/RF09 indicator panel in this
manual: 
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp9/DEC-09-H9ZA-D_RF09_Jul70.pdf

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 8:57 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:
>
>
> On 8/18/16 10:02 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>
>> OK, I have identified the one on the far right as a VT15. (Crappy image from
>> DEC documentation added to the page - can someone provide a better one?
>
> we have one
> http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102691234

It's an 'internal' metal panel rather than a classic cabinet top panel
but the lower indicator panel in that image is the TC59 magtape
controller. I have one too:

http://www.corestore.org/15-1.htm

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Al Kossow]

oh.. there's a cool picture of a PDP-15 here:
http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/gallery/ral/orig/r12588.jpg


On 8/18/16 1:57 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
> 
> 
> On 8/18/16 10:02 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> 
>> OK, I have identified the one on the far right as a VT15. (Crappy image from
>> DEC documentation added to the page - can someone provide a better one?
> 
> we have one
> http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102691234
> 
> i'll request access to it to shoot the panel
> 
> 

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Al Kossow]

On 8/18/16 10:02 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

> OK, I have identified the one on the far right as a VT15. (Crappy image from
> DEC documentation added to the page - can someone provide a better one?

we have one
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102691234

i'll request access to it to shoot the panel

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Mattis Lind

>> To start with, there's this image:
>>
>>   
http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/gdmr/Historical/Photos/1980.08-PDP1540.jpg
>> 
>> That's clearly an FP15 on the lower left, and I have identified the
>> center one as a TC15, but what are the other two?

OK, I have identified the one on the far right as a VT15. (Crappy image from
DEC documentation added to the page - can someone provide a better one? I've
looked online but the ones I've found are either at a steep angle, or have
a corner missing, or something.)

(And I'm still hoping for an RK08 or RF11 image! ;-)


The other one seems to be the same as this one:

> http://www.hal1.se/Rolfs_web/Rolfs_images/1975_1/pages/7503%2003.htm
>
> The panel to the left is RF15 and the right is TC15. But what is the
> middle one?

which is in quite a few PDP-15 images, but still un-identified.

It seems to be always near the CPU, so perhaps it's a panel for the memory
management, or something like that? I've looked through some of the manuals
on BitSavers, and I've yet to turn it up, although the block diagram on page
2-3 of the PDP-15 Installation Manual shows an 'indicator [panel]' (no
further info on it, alas) in that location, which is probably it.

There aren't that many devices in that system, so there are only a few
possibilities: BA15 (paper tape controller), DW15A (bus converter), KE15
(extended arithmetic), MM15-A and MK15-A (memory). It might also be a BD15,
whatever that might be (seems to include a D/A, from what little I can find
on it online), since that was listed as having an insert for it.

Noel

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mattis Lind]

>
>
> There are still some other -15 panels showing up in pictures, which I have
> no
> idea about. To start with, there's this image:
>
>   http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/gdmr/Historical/Photos/1980.08-PDP1540.jpg
>
> That's clearly an FP15 on the lower left, and I have identified the center
> one
> as a TC15, but what are the other two?
>
> And here's one with two _more_ different panels:
>
>   http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/DEC/15_01.jpg
>
> The one on the right does _not_ seem to be a TC15...
>
> And then there are:
>
>   http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/gallery/ral/orig/r12600y.jpg
>   http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/gallery/ral/orig/r12588.jpg
>
> but those seem to be the same as in the first one.
>


Here are two more pictures with PDP-15 systems:

This one at Chalmers in Gothenburg from 1975 (s/n 463?):

http://www.hal1.se/Rolfs_web/Rolfs_images/1975_1/pages/7503%2003.htm

The panel to the left is RF15 and the right is TC15. But what is the middle
one?

A similar system at SRT in Stockholm: (s/n 264)

http://belisa.se/taag/19xx/1970-srt/1977/1977-sivert-pdp15.jpg

I cannot deduce which option it is from the 18bitservicelist:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96935524/Datormusuem/
18bitServiceList1972.pdf

/Mattis




>
> Noel
>

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Mike Ross

> Here's the FP15 you were looking for... 

Oooh, thanks; I had that image, wasn't exactly sure what it was.

I hadn't done much with the PDP-15 panels, in part because it wasn't my focus
(the -11) panels, in part because it seemed like there were a ton of them, in
the -15 pictures I had.

I have now put a few cycles into them, and have identified the RF11 and TC11
as well, and added them to the page (crummy images from scanned manuals,
though).


There are still some other -15 panels showing up in pictures, which I have no
idea about. To start with, there's this image:

  http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/gdmr/Historical/Photos/1980.08-PDP1540.jpg

That's clearly an FP15 on the lower left, and I have identified the center one
as a TC15, but what are the other two?

And here's one with two _more_ different panels:

  http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/DEC/15_01.jpg

The one on the right does _not_ seem to be a TC15...

And then there are:

  http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/gallery/ral/orig/r12600y.jpg
  http://www.chilton-computing.org.uk/gallery/ral/orig/r12588.jpg

but those seem to be the same as in the first one.

Noel

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Rod Smallwood]

On 17/08/2016 21:56, Noel Chiappa wrote:

So, I've been working for a while on a page about DEC indicator panels (the
standardized 36x4 light arrays which go into a 19" rack, with an inlay to
customize it to a particular device). It's online now, here:

   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html

Does anyone happen to have a good image of an RK08 panel, or an RF11, which I
can use here?

Even better, does anyone know of, or have images of, panels which are not
listed here? (I am not including the unknown 'RK' panel in the RSTS document,
which will be the subject of a separate message.)

Thanks!

Noel

 I can make any of these -
Rod(Panelman) Smallwood

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:
>
>
> On 8/17/16 2:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote:
>
>> I also have an odd box... it's pdp-8/L in style but housed several
>> sets of boards for controlling multiple paper tape readers/punches
>> IIRC... can't recall the DEC designator.
>
> PR68, used in typesetting.

Negative - I think. The PR68 was a small orange paper tape reader
AFAIK; Robert Krten has one:

http://krten.com/~rk/projects/pr68.html

I have one of those too!

The thing of which I speak is a 19" rack mount box of logic. I'll head
out to the garage and look at the blooming label! And take a pic for
Noel.

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Al Kossow]

On 8/17/16 2:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

> I also have an odd box... it's pdp-8/L in style but housed several
> sets of boards for controlling multiple paper tape readers/punches
> IIRC... can't recall the DEC designator.

PR68, used in typesetting.

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> So, I've been working for a while on a page about DEC indicator panels (the
> standardized 36x4 light arrays which go into a 19" rack, with an inlay to
> customize it to a particular device). It's online now, here:
>
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html
>
> Does anyone happen to have a good image of an RK08 panel, or an RF11, which I
> can use here?
>
> Even better, does anyone know of, or have images of, panels which are not
> listed here? (I am not including the unknown 'RK' panel in the RSTS document,
> which will be the subject of a separate message.)

Here's the FP15 you were looking for... ancient and small image; I'll
get a better shot in my copious free time.

http://www.corestore.org/15b-7.jpg

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: DEC Indicator Panels page

[Mike Ross]

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> So, I've been working for a while on a page about DEC indicator panels (the
> standardized 36x4 light arrays which go into a 19" rack, with an inlay to
> customize it to a particular device). It's online now, here:
>
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html
>
> Does anyone happen to have a good image of an RK08 panel, or an RF11, which I
> can use here?
>
> Even better, does anyone know of, or have images of, panels which are not
> listed here? (I am not including the unknown 'RK' panel in the RSTS document,
> which will be the subject of a separate message.)

Have a look at http://www.corestore.org/pdp.htm

It's very badly in need of a refresh and update but you might find
some stuff there... especially the unique style of panel applied to
the later (XVM) pdp-15s.

I also have an odd box... it's pdp-8/L in style but housed several
sets of boards for controlling multiple paper tape readers/punches
IIRC... can't recall the DEC designator. It has an indicator panel
built in to the front of the box rather than mounted at the top of the
rack.

I know someone who can probably help with images of TC15 and RF15/RS09

Mike

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

DEC Indicator Panels page

[Noel Chiappa]

So, I've been working for a while on a page about DEC indicator panels (the
standardized 36x4 light arrays which go into a 19" rack, with an inlay to
customize it to a particular device). It's online now, here:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html

Does anyone happen to have a good image of an RK08 panel, or an RF11, which I
can use here?

Even better, does anyone know of, or have images of, panels which are not
listed here? (I am not including the unknown 'RK' panel in the RSTS document,
which will be the subject of a separate message.)

Thanks!

Noel