Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Guy Dawson via cctalk]

That time in an open lab at IBM Austin when a newly arrived fellow Brit
announced that he had to go out and have a fag.

On 30 March 2017 at 13:18, Peter Coghlan via cctalk 
wrote:

> >
> > Or the time an English co-worker related the story surrounding her
> > initial job interval in the US.  She described the stunned look on the
> > face of the desk clerk at the local Holiday Inn when she asked to be
> > knocked up at 7:30 the next morning.
> >
>
> This reminds me of the rather surprised look on my Australian colleague's
> face when I said I was going to have a root in the cupboard for a missing
> manual.
>
> Regards,
> Peter Coghlan
>
>


-- 
4.4 > 5.4

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Peter Coghlan via cctalk]

>
> Or the time an English co-worker related the story surrounding her
> initial job interval in the US.  She described the stunned look on the
> face of the desk clerk at the local Holiday Inn when she asked to be
> knocked up at 7:30 the next morning.
>

This reminds me of the rather surprised look on my Australian colleague's
face when I said I was going to have a root in the cupboard for a missing
manual.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 3/28/2017 9:58 AM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Liam Proven via cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Floating point routines for the 6809


On 28 March 2017 at 08:54, jim stephens via cctalk
<cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

I need to scrounge around


I always wonder why someone understands what I mean and has to go to 
such a length to try to say I mean something else.  Especially that I am 
stealing it.


Sort of insulting, but to each their own.  I have a lot of 6809 code 
that I'd like to scrounge for and share, and it is all by my hand.


thanks
jim

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Mar 29, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>>> It's amazing how isolated pockets of our cultures can be from each
>>> other! "Multiple peoples divided by a common language"
> 
> On Wed, 29 Mar 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> ...
>> Or the time an English co-worker related the story surrounding her
>> initial job interval in the US.  She described the stunned look on the
>> face of the desk clerk at the local Holiday Inn when she asked to be
>> knocked up at 7:30 the next morning.
> 
> British V American/"Colonial"? idioms are not surprising.
> What's more surprising are the mutually exclusive variations within a country.

Not at all.  Linguists have a term for this: dialects.  Actually, that applies 
anywhere, country borders are not relevant; it simply means two variations of a 
language that are "mutually intellegible".  That may be a bit of a judgment 
call.  As a not-native speaker of English I tend to have trouble with, say, the 
Welsh dialect of English.

If dialects diverge to the point that they aren't mutually intellegible, a 
linguist calls that two languages.  So China has lots of languages, not just 
many dialects.  Conversely, some argue that Norway and Sweden use two dialects 
of a single language.

paul

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

It's amazing how isolated pockets of our cultures can be from each
other! "Multiple peoples divided by a common language"


On Wed, 29 Mar 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

This is something that continually delights me, from the time that I was
ridiculed by the downstate Hoosier farmers' sons for calling a green
runner bean a "string bean".  "Those ain't string beans, they're green
beans.  String beans are yellow."  One wonders what would have been the
reaction if I'd referred to them as haricot beans.


SOME people insist that "haricot beans" are navy beans or Boston beans!


Or the time an English co-worker related the story surrounding her
initial job interval in the US.  She described the stunned look on the
face of the desk clerk at the local Holiday Inn when she asked to be
knocked up at 7:30 the next morning.


British V American/"Colonial"? idioms are not surprising.
What's more surprising are the mutually exclusive variations within a 
country.




It's a wonder that we can communicate so well between continents on this
list in spite of regional differences.  It used to be that there were
very substantial differences in the vocabulary used by different
manufacturers (cf. "Label" vs. "VTOC") but that seems to have
standardized greatly now.


Some manufacturers seemed to go out of their way to AVOID using the same 
terms as their competitors.  Even on stuff as simple as a disk space 
allocation unit.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Tony Duell via cctalk]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 6:01 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
 wrote:

> Or the time an English co-worker related the story surrounding her
> initial job interval in the US.  She described the stunned look on the
> face of the desk clerk at the local Holiday Inn when she asked to be
> knocked up at 7:30 the next morning.

Another one

An English lady had a lot of explaining to do when she asked
'Where can I buy a joint for the weekend'. In England, 'joint'
often means a piece of meat for roasting, not a cigarette
containing drugs.

-tony

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 03/29/2017 09:05 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> It's amazing how isolated pockets of our cultures can be from each
> other! "Multiple peoples divided by a common language"

This is something that continually delights me, from the time that I was
ridiculed by the downstate Hoosier farmers' sons for calling a green
runner bean a "string bean".  "Those ain't string beans, they're green
beans.  String beans are yellow."  One wonders what would have been the
reaction if I'd referred to them as haricot beans.

Or the time an English co-worker related the story surrounding her
initial job interval in the US.  She described the stunned look on the
face of the desk clerk at the local Holiday Inn when she asked to be
knocked up at 7:30 the next morning.

Even in the last few days, discussion on another list concerned the
words "proctor" and "invigilate".  USA English uses the word "proctor"
both as a verb and a noun to denote the task of supervising a written
examination.  British English uses "invigilate" and "invigilator" for
that.  "Proctor" occurs only as a noun--and when not a church official,
denotes someone whose job description involves discipline. "Invigilate"
is pretty much unknown in US English, though Canadian English uses it.

It's a wonder that we can communicate so well between continents on this
list in spite of regional differences.  It used to be that there were
very substantial differences in the vocabulary used by different
manufacturers (cf. "Label" vs. "VTOC") but that seems to have
standardized greatly now.

For whatever it's worth,
Chuck

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On 29 March 2017 at 17:05, Toby Thain via cctalk  wrote:

But you must have overlooked the intransitive definition below: "to search
about and turn up something needed from whatever source is available".
I'm pretty sure that's the sense Jim was using (and it's certainly not
restricted to North America; I learned it in British English).


On Wed, 29 Mar 2017, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

No, it's a fair cop, I did notice that. I specifically looked for an
American source today, but yesterday I didn't.
It seems very odd to me to talk about scrounging something that you
already own, though, that's the point.


It's amazing how isolated pockets of our cultures can be from each other!
"Multiple peoples divided by a common language"

I definitely grew up with "scrounging" meaning to forage/scavenge 
something from one's own junk heap.

"I needed to add a cleat, so I scrounged up a cutoff scrap of 2x4"
(I wonder if "up" in that is important?)
"need a doorstop, go scrounge up a Timex/Sinclair"


Similarly, it often surprises me to encounter people who have 
significant differences in nursery rhymes or idiomatic phrases from one 
another.  "But, EVERYBODY says it that way!"


For all of our international communications, we still end up with isolated 
pockets of minor, but very definite, differences.   Usually, but not 
always geographically based.


My family was "bi-coastal", alternating between Berkeley and Washington, 
DC.  My PhD thesis advisor was British.   So, I can mispell things in 
several variants.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 29 March 2017 at 17:05, Toby Thain via cctalk  wrote:
> But you must have overlooked the intransitive definition below: "to search
> about and turn up something needed from whatever source is available".
>
> I'm pretty sure that's the sense Jim was using (and it's certainly not
> restricted to North America; I learned it in British English).

No, it's a fair cop, I did notice that. I specifically looked for an
American source today, but yesterday I didn't.

It seems very odd to me to talk about scrounging something that you
already own, though, that's the point.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2017-03-29 10:50 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On 28 March 2017 at 18:58, Mike Stein via cctalk  wrote:

Maybe it has a slightly different connotation on this side of the pond; I don't think it 
would mean "borderline theft" for most people.


I did Google it first! :-)

Note definition 1 here:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scrounge

"Steal, swipe"






But you must have overlooked the intransitive definition below: "to 
search about and turn up something needed from whatever source is 
available".


I'm pretty sure that's the sense Jim was using (and it's certainly not 
restricted to North America; I learned it in British English).


--T

Re: Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 28 March 2017 at 18:58, Mike Stein via cctalk  wrote:
> Maybe it has a slightly different connotation on this side of the pond; I 
> don't think it would mean "borderline theft" for most people.

I did Google it first! :-)

Note definition 1 here:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scrounge

"Steal, swipe"




-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: Floating point routines for the 6809

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017, Systems Glitch via cctalk wrote:

Then it's a regional thing.
"Scrounge up," or to "scrounge around," is certainly commonly used to 
mean, "find something in a pile of mess" in the southeastern US. Mostly 
equivalent to "scare up."


California:  "Scrounge the keyboards, memory, and drives from the machines 
being discarded."

"Scrounge up a parallel port for the printer server"
(forage, salvage, scavenge, etc.)

But, the "pilferage" meaning does give some context to the administration 
attempts to fire a colleague for scrounging stuff from the dumpsters!

(PDP, 5170s, VT100s, Northstar Horizon, Processor Technology Sol, Lisa, etc.)

Re: Floating point routines for the 6809

[Systems Glitch via cctalk]

> Then it's a regional thing.

"Scrounge up," or to "scrounge around," is certainly commonly used to mean, 
"find something in a pile of mess" in the southeastern US. Mostly equivalent to 
"scare up."

Thanks,
Jonathan

Re: Floating point routines for the 6809

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2017-03-28 11:23 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

On 28 March 2017 at 08:54, jim stephens via cctalk
 wrote:

I need to scrounge around


Hmm. That is not a possible usage of "scrounge" the way I know it. You
can't scrounge something you already have. It doesn't mean "search
for", it means "to pilfer", to get something off someone by the
pretence of borrowing it when you have no intention of ever returning
or repaying it. I.e. it's borderline theft.

It can mean to scavenge or to forage -- to go and seek something that
isn't yours that you can take and keep or use.

It doesn't mean to borrow, to seek, to look for.



Then it's a regional thing.

Where I come from you can definitely say "scrounge up" as "to look for", 
either in one's own stuff, or "somewhere".


The pejorative sense of "scrounger" is different.

--Toby

Scrounging - was Floating point routines for the 6809

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

- Original Message - 
From: "Liam Proven via cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Floating point routines for the 6809


On 28 March 2017 at 08:54, jim stephens via cctalk
<cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I need to scrounge around

Hmm. That is not a possible usage of "scrounge" the way I know it. You
can't scrounge something you already have. It doesn't mean "search
for", it means "to pilfer", to get something off someone by the
pretence of borrowing it when you have no intention of ever returning
or repaying it. I.e. it's borderline theft.

It can mean to scavenge or to forage -- to go and seek something that
isn't yours that you can take and keep or use.

It doesn't mean to borrow, to seek, to look for.

--
Maybe it has a slightly different connotation on this side of the pond; I don't 
think it would mean "borderline theft" for most people.

e.g:

scrounge around (for something) American English
 Leroy would scrounge around for old car parts.

We would usually use "mooch" or "sponge" for _taking advantage of_ someone's 
generosity.

What would you call posting a want on freecycle?

m

Re: Floating point routines for the 6809

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 28 March 2017 at 08:54, jim stephens via cctalk
 wrote:
> I need to scrounge around

Hmm. That is not a possible usage of "scrounge" the way I know it. You
can't scrounge something you already have. It doesn't mean "search
for", it means "to pilfer", to get something off someone by the
pretence of borrowing it when you have no intention of ever returning
or repaying it. I.e. it's borderline theft.

It can mean to scavenge or to forage -- to go and seek something that
isn't yours that you can take and keep or use.

It doesn't mean to borrow, to seek, to look for.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: Floating point routines for the 6809

[jim stephens via cctalk]

That's cool.  I need to scrounge around and find my copy of Forth we 
used on a 6809 tape
controller firmware.  I had forth in the diagnostic firmware that we had 
on a snapon module
and you could compose whatever diagnostic exercises you chose by 
executing the basic

test functions we had in Forth.

Thanks for posting and finding it or writing it, Eric.
thanks
jim

On 3/27/2017 10:51 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Sean Conner via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


   Some time ago I came across the MC6839 ROM which contains floating point
routines for the 6809.  The documentation that came with it stated:

 Written for Motorola by Joel Boney, 1980
 Released into the public domain by Motorola in 1988
 Docs and apps for Tandy Color Computer by Rich Kottke, 1989

   What I haven't been able to find is the actual *source code* to the
module.  Is it available anywhere?  I've been playing around the the MC6839
on an emulator but having the source would clear up some issues I've been
having with the code.


https://github.com/brouhaha/float09

I haven't modified it to assemble with a readily available assembler, so I
don't know whether it assembles into the exact MC6839 ROM image.

Re: Floating point routines for the 6809

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Sean Conner via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>   Some time ago I came across the MC6839 ROM which contains floating point
> routines for the 6809.  The documentation that came with it stated:
>
> Written for Motorola by Joel Boney, 1980
> Released into the public domain by Motorola in 1988
> Docs and apps for Tandy Color Computer by Rich Kottke, 1989
>
>   What I haven't been able to find is the actual *source code* to the
> module.  Is it available anywhere?  I've been playing around the the MC6839
> on an emulator but having the source would clear up some issues I've been
> having with the code.
>

https://github.com/brouhaha/float09

I haven't modified it to assemble with a readily available assembler, so I
don't know whether it assembles into the exact MC6839 ROM image.

Floating point routines for the 6809

[Sean Conner via cctalk]

  Some time ago I came across the MC6839 ROM which contains floating point
routines for the 6809.  The documentation that came with it stated:

Written for Motorola by Joel Boney, 1980
Released into the public domain by Motorola in 1988
Docs and apps for Tandy Color Computer by Rich Kottke, 1989

  What I haven't been able to find is the actual *source code* to the
module.  Is it available anywhere?  I've been playing around the the MC6839
on an emulator but having the source would clear up some issues I've been
having with the code.

  -spc