Re: Re: Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

Easier  just to order one  for   6 bucks off ebay. though!
 
In a message dated 1/16/2018 3:43:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
dkel...@hotmail.com writes:

 
You know that one can always remove the pins from the lock and then any key of 
the right diameter will work. It won't be original but it will work.
Most any real lock smith can make a key for you if you give him the lock. The 
ones on the HPs are not that hard to remove.
Dwight
 
From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Ed Sharpe via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 2:31:26 PM
To:ci...@xenosoft.com; cctalk@classiccmp.org; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Re: HP 2108A key 
I never  found on ein the key stash I ordered  2  off  ebay
 one to use...
 one to loose!
  
  
 Ed#
  
  
 In a message dated 1/16/2018 3:19:11 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

  
  On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Tim Riker via cctalk wrote:
 > Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:
 >  https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446

 Nice pictures of a 2108A !
 But no pictures of the key, (which has been worked out)

Re: Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, dwight via cctalk wrote:
You know that one can always remove the pins from the lock and then any key 
of the right diameter will work. It won't be original but it will work.


MOST of such locks (called "cam lock") have a standardized mounting, 
although the "cam"/latch bar may differ.

You can replace the lock with one of your choice.
There are even COMBINATION cam locks, giving you the opportunity to forget 
the combination that you set, instead of losing the key.


With a larger mounting hole, you can get cam locks with Interchangeable 
Core, or with house-hey keyways to rekey to match your residence key.

Re: Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, dwight via cctalk wrote:
You know that one can always remove the pins from the lock and then any 
key of the right diameter will work. It won't be original but it will 
work.


Most any real lock smith can make a key for you if you give him the 
lock. The ones on the HPs are not that hard to remove.


Or get a key cut based on the code number (if avaialable)
Or swap the pins to make the lock fit any other key that you have with the 
same keyway.
(If so, and if the lock has the code number engraved/stamped on it, 
consider taking a dremel to cross out the number that is no longer 
correct.  Or leave it, so that somebody getting a key code cut to 
steal your machine wastes some time)

Re: Re: HP 2108A key

[dwight via cctalk]

You know that one can always remove the pins from the lock and then any key of 
the right diameter will work. It won't be original but it will work.

Most any real lock smith can make a key for you if you give him the lock. The 
ones on the HPs are not that hard to remove.

Dwight



From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Ed Sharpe via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 2:31:26 PM
To: ci...@xenosoft.com; cctalk@classiccmp.org; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Re: HP 2108A key

I never  found on ein the key stash I ordered  2  off  ebay
one to use...
one to loose!


Ed#


In a message dated 1/16/2018 3:19:11 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:


 On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Tim Riker via cctalk wrote:
> Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:
> https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446

Nice pictures of a 2108A !
But no pictures of the key, (which has been worked out)

Re: Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

I never  found on ein the key stash I ordered  2  off  ebay
one to use...
one to loose!
 
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 1/16/2018 3:19:11 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
 On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Tim Riker via cctalk wrote:
> Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:
> https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446

Nice pictures of a 2108A !
But no pictures of the key, (which has been worked out)

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Tim Riker via cctalk wrote:

Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:
https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446


Nice pictures of a 2108A !
But no pictures of the key, (which has been worked out)

Re: HP 2108A key

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Tim Riker via cctalk wrote:


On 09/21/2017 08:52 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:

  Mike Thompson at the RICM is going to look for a number on the key
for their 2108A, this weekend.


Ask if he can snap a few good close-up pictures of it.  While
measurement from a picture isn't reliable, it doesn't have to be, if the
picture is clear enough to decide whether a given cut is a 2 cut or a 3
cut.



Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:

https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446


   Yes, it did.  Dennis Boone has the techninal details.

Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

-


From cctalk@classiccmp.org Mon Sep 25 18:21:35 2017

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 17:21:27 -0400
From: Dennis Boone via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: Dennis Boone <d...@msu.edu>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic 
Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key

 > I received a key that was made based on the Chicago Lock H2007 key in
 > Christian's picture:

 > It works!

 > I've asked our resident keymaster to post any specifications needed
 > to duplicate this key.

The key is an H2007.  This is one of the Chicago double-sided types.
The keyblank is an Ilco 1041G, aka CG1, which looks like this:

http://mysecuritypro.com/images/products/highres/cg1large.jpg

Note that there are other similar blanks in which the center land is
offset one way or the other, but on this one it's centered.

One easy way to get one is on ebay: H2007 is one of the relatively
common numbers, once used in alarms or elevators or some such.  Most
real locksmiths (i.e. not the key booth at Ace or Home Despot) will have
the means to originate such a key, and can work from "Chicago
double-sided H2007 CG1".  Many of said serious locksmiths will want you
to prove you own the lock.  I think I remember hearing that Jay carried
one of his HP minis into such a place once... ;)

TL;DR:

The tricky bit to cutting them is that when Chicago designed them, they
developed several hundred unique curves instead of a set of numbered cut
depths.  However, manufacturers of numerical key machines have worked it
out, probably by pretending there are a large number of cut positions.

There are two ways these days to originate one: copy the appropriate
master key (they come in sets from whoever now owns Chicago, or used
from ebay occasionally) onto the appropriate blank; or use a numerically
controlled key machine.

I can originate most of these Chicago keys from my set of masters, if
people are stuck.  I think I can also produce the 4T1427 panel lock key,
and with a little testing the tubular XX2946, XX2247, XX2065 (since we
have cut depths for these).  I've been trying to get to the point where
I can produce most ccmp related keys, and am interested in expanding
that capability, if people have needs or additional data.

De

Re: HP 2108A key

[Tim Riker via cctalk]

On 09/21/2017 08:52 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
>>   Mike Thompson at the RICM is going to look for a number on the key
>> for their 2108A, this weekend.
> 
> Ask if he can snap a few good close-up pictures of it.  While
> measurement from a picture isn't reliable, it doesn't have to be, if the
> picture is clear enough to decide whether a given cut is a 2 cut or a 3
> cut.
> 

Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:

https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446

RE: HP 2108A key

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

I bought 2! One to use and one to loose...  Ed#

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 CuriousMarc via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
wrote:
And indeed, the H2007 key from eBay works perfectly! Thanks a lot for the link. 
I also have two kinds of 21 MX's, one with the double sided on/off H2007 key, 
and one with a regular HP 1000 key and front panel arrangement. That key opens 
the front panel. However, the second 21MX actually says "21 MX E-series" on the 
front panel, still with the old 21MX blue color lines on the panel. So I 
believe it's an early HP 1000E before the "1000" rebranding. Then the 21 MX 
became 1000M, and my 21 MX E-series became an HP 1000E. 
Marc

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim stephens 
via cctalk
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 6:03 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key


The 2007 can be bought on ebay. It also is the Microdata 1600, Reality and 
other standard key. I carry one on my keyring just for nostalgia, and also if I 
run across a 1600.

FWIW it also will open most Pepsi and Coke dispensers in such as McDonalds, as 
well as quite a few devices in Phoenix Sky Harbor air port. Latter is not 
recommended now with TSA around.

Supplying an example ebay auction:

H2007-2007-Key-Precut-Chicago-Lock-Illinois-NEW-FACTORY-CUT-SHIPS-FAST

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322652408202

I lucked out and have filing cabinet cores, upright cabinet key cores, and 
stand alone switches, all on the same key. When you fool with something for 40 
years, things like this shows up.

Thanks
jim

RE: HP 2108A key

[CuriousMarc via cctalk]

And indeed, the H2007 key from eBay works perfectly! Thanks a lot for the link. 
 I also have two kinds of 21 MX's, one with the double sided on/off H2007 key, 
and one with a  regular HP 1000 key and front panel arrangement. That key opens 
the front panel. However, the second 21MX actually says "21 MX E-series" on the 
front panel, still with the old 21MX blue color lines  on the panel. So I 
believe it's an early HP 1000E before the "1000" rebranding. Then the 21 MX 
became 1000M, and my 21 MX E-series became an HP 1000E.  
Marc

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim stephens 
via cctalk
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 6:03 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key


The 2007 can be bought on ebay.  It also is the Microdata 1600, Reality and 
other standard key.  I carry one on my keyring just for nostalgia, and also if 
I run across a 1600.

FWIW it also will open most Pepsi and Coke dispensers in such as McDonalds, as 
well as quite a few devices in Phoenix Sky Harbor air port.  Latter is not 
recommended now with TSA around.

Supplying an example ebay auction:

H2007-2007-Key-Precut-Chicago-Lock-Illinois-NEW-FACTORY-CUT-SHIPS-FAST

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322652408202

I lucked out and have filing cabinet cores, upright cabinet key cores, and 
stand alone switches, all on the same key.  When you fool with something for 40 
years, things like this shows up.

Thanks
jim

Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed via cctalk]

well.  do not  see any 2007
so bought  one  incase the  1000   is the one that  uses  that  one.
easier   than  driving back to the building.
 
however.  I  did  find  a but  ofother  HP  keys even  some ace  
style?
 found my open the 2645   thingis my hp 1000 beltbuckle (  bif g bronze 
thing)
may  ace keys  probably  dec and  some classic   8
 
another  hp2000a  rime share   emblem off a first ever  hp timeshare 
system.  ( seems I have a couple extras  so one can  go)
 
found  spare keys to the  computer biz in the 80s
 
but  have a heck of a lot of  quantity I have no idea what they  are or 
what they go to  but  yea there are ## on them.   probably  some  DG  too
 
Ed#
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/25/2017 6:03:40 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

Supplying an example ebay  auction:

H2007-2007-Key-Precut-Chicago-Lock-Illinois-NEW-FACTORY-CUT-SHIPS-FAST

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322652408202

Re: HP 2108A key

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 9/25/2017 1:46 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:


On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Sam O'nella wrote:
 Should be easy but my mobile google fu is failing. Didn't Jay and a 
few
 others know if a vintage computer key database/site somewhere? 
Would that

 possibly have or benefit from getting afterwards? null


Ok, I went into our storage and made some pics:
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/hp1000/keys.html 



In total, there are three different keys used on the 21MX, 1000M and 
1000E/F.


Christian


   I received a key that was made based on the Chicago Lock H2007 key 
in Christian's picture:


http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pics/hp1000/keys/P1080975.JPG 



   It works!

   I've asked our resident keymaster to post any specifications needed 
to duplicate this key.


   Thanks to everyone involved, for their help.

The 2007 can be bought on ebay.  It also is the Microdata 1600, Reality 
and other standard key.  I carry

one on my keyring just for nostalgia, and also if I run across a 1600.

FWIW it also will open most Pepsi and Coke dispensers in such as 
McDonalds, as well as quite a few
devices in Phoenix Sky Harbor air port.  Latter is not recommended now 
with TSA around.


Supplying an example ebay auction:

H2007-2007-Key-Precut-Chicago-Lock-Illinois-NEW-FACTORY-CUT-SHIPS-FAST

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322652408202

I lucked out and have filing cabinet cores, upright cabinet key cores, 
and stand alone switches,
all on the same key.  When you fool with something for 40 years, things 
like this shows up.


Thanks
jim



Mike Loewen    mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology    http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: HP 2108A key

[Dennis Boone via cctalk]

 > If/when you get around to it, start by sorting by blank.

Good thought.

 > On the double-sided Chicago keys, if you have an extra that matches
 > H2007, send one to Dennis to use as a "master" for subsequent demand.

Not necessary, as I have a full set of pattern keys.

I'd be interested in a crack at other stuff, though. ;)

De

Re: HP 2108A key

[Dennis Boone via cctalk]

> The tricky bit to cutting them is that when Chicago designed them, they
> developed several hundred unique curves instead of a set of numbered cut
> depths.  However, manufacturers of numerical key machines have worked it
> out, probably by pretending there are a large number of cut positions.

Cut data for H2007: 45433456776, bow-to-tip.  Depths and spacings to
make this work follow.  You'll need a fixed font for the diagram.

De


Chicago double sided numeric cut info




|
++  +-+
  \/   \ -
>
   / e.g. depth 7, .308"
+-+  -
|

\_/
.016"

From shoulder, positions are:
1   .237"
2   .266"
3   .294"
4   .322"
5   .351"
6   .379"
7   .407"
8   .435"
9   .464"
10  .492"
11  .520"

Depths are from other outer side of uncut key to bottom of cut:
0   .392"
1   .380"
2   .368"
3   .356"
4   .344"
5   .332"
6   .320"
7   .308"
8   .296"
9   .284"

Width of flat at the bottom of the cut is .016" ("root")

Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

OK thanks for the advice! ...
Ed# www.smecc.org 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Monday, September 25, 2017 Fred Cisin via cctalk  
wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017, Ed via cctalk wrote:
> FANTASTIC -!
> I still need to triage the shoe boxes too-

If/when you get around to it, start by sorting by blank.
On the double-sided Chicago keys, if you have an extra that matches H2007, 
send one to Dennis to use as a "master" for subsequent demand.

To the extent that you are up for it, measure the depths of cuts on all 
keys that have numbers stamped on them, to help populate the database.
(keycode numbers, not blanks numbers)

Unmarked keys are best sorted for matches to marked keys, and the 
remainder into groups that match each other.

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Mon, 25 Sep 2017, Ed via cctalk wrote:

FANTASTIC -!
I still need to triage the  shoe boxes too-


If/when you get around to it, start by sorting by blank.
On the double-sided Chicago keys, if you have an extra that matches H2007, 
send one to Dennis to use as a "master" for subsequent demand.


To the extent that you are up for it, measure the depths of cuts on all 
keys that have numbers stamped on them, to help populate the database.

(keycode numbers, not blanks numbers)

Unmarked keys are best sorted for matches to marked keys, and the 
remainder into groups that match each other.

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Thank you Dennis, we are likely to need your help often.

On Mon, 25 Sep 2017, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:

The tricky bit to cutting them is that when Chicago designed them, they
developed several hundred unique curves instead of a set of numbered cut
depths.  However, manufacturers of numerical key machines have worked it
out, probably by pretending there are a large number of cut positions.


Curves, instead of finite number of flats, are trivially more difficult to 
duplicate, and very difficult to visually decode without the spacing data. 
That might not seem so important, but in 2007, keys were made for Diebold 
voting machines from pictures on a Diebold website:

http://spiralbound.net/blog/2007/01/25/diebold-voting-machine-key-copied-from-photo/


HOWEVER, disunirregardless of the curves of the key, the key will work 
fine if the flats are at the right height for each of the wafers of the 
lock.  If one were to disassemble any of the locks of that series, and 
measure the spacing of where the wafers contact the key, then it becomes 
trivial to decode the key and cut it as a conventional code-cut key.

Hint: Harbor Freight digital caliper

I would assume that the better depth/spacing databases include the Chicago 
H series.


Some more info thru Google:
http://www.locksmithledger.com/article/12245464/mosler
There are 11 wafers.
At that time, there were 24 shapes used, but 4 positions for each shape.
The shapes could also be raised or lowere 0.015 inches.
Total of 576 different keys, until they add more shapes.

The wafers are thin and closely spaced, so a code cutting machine needs to 
be able to handle narrow cuts.


innards of the lock (patent drawing)!
http://oi62.tinypic.com/34fyw7p.jpg


Sets of "Try out" keys are available.

It is used for high-end cam/cabinet locks, elevators, etc.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com





There are two ways these days to originate one: copy the appropriate
master key (they come in sets from whoever now owns Chicago, or used
from ebay occasionally) onto the appropriate blank; or use a numerically
controlled key machine.

I can originate most of these Chicago keys from my set of masters, if
people are stuck.  I think I can also produce the 4T1427 panel lock key,
and with a little testing the tubular XX2946, XX2247, XX2065 (since we
have cut depths for these).  I've been trying to get to the point where
I can produce most ccmp related keys, and am interested in expanding
that capability, if people have needs or additional data.

De

Re: HP 2108A key

[Dennis Boone via cctalk]

 > I received a key that was made based on the Chicago Lock H2007 key in
 > Christian's picture:

 > It works!

 > I've asked our resident keymaster to post any specifications needed
 > to duplicate this key.

The key is an H2007.  This is one of the Chicago double-sided types.
The keyblank is an Ilco 1041G, aka CG1, which looks like this:

http://mysecuritypro.com/images/products/highres/cg1large.jpg

Note that there are other similar blanks in which the center land is
offset one way or the other, but on this one it's centered.

One easy way to get one is on ebay: H2007 is one of the relatively
common numbers, once used in alarms or elevators or some such.  Most
real locksmiths (i.e. not the key booth at Ace or Home Despot) will have
the means to originate such a key, and can work from "Chicago
double-sided H2007 CG1".  Many of said serious locksmiths will want you
to prove you own the lock.  I think I remember hearing that Jay carried
one of his HP minis into such a place once... ;)

TL;DR:

The tricky bit to cutting them is that when Chicago designed them, they
developed several hundred unique curves instead of a set of numbered cut
depths.  However, manufacturers of numerical key machines have worked it
out, probably by pretending there are a large number of cut positions.

There are two ways these days to originate one: copy the appropriate
master key (they come in sets from whoever now owns Chicago, or used
from ebay occasionally) onto the appropriate blank; or use a numerically
controlled key machine.

I can originate most of these Chicago keys from my set of masters, if
people are stuck.  I think I can also produce the 4T1427 panel lock key,
and with a little testing the tubular XX2946, XX2247, XX2065 (since we
have cut depths for these).  I've been trying to get to the point where
I can produce most ccmp related keys, and am interested in expanding
that capability, if people have needs or additional data.

De

Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed via cctalk]

FANTASTIC -!
 
I still need to triage the  shoe boxes too-
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 9/25/2017 1:47:00 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:


I received a key that was made based on the  Chicago Lock H2007 key in 
Christian's  picture:

http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pics/hp1000/keys/P1080975.
JPG

It works!

I've asked our resident keymaster to  post any specifications needed to 
duplicate this key.

Thanks to everyone involved, for their help.


Mike Loewenmloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: HP 2108A key

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:


On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Sam O'nella wrote:

 Should be easy but my mobile google fu is failing. Didn't Jay and a few
 others know if a vintage computer key database/site somewhere? Would that
 possibly have or benefit from getting afterwards? null


Ok, I went into our storage and made some pics:
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/hp1000/keys.html

In total, there are three different keys used on the 21MX, 1000M and 1000E/F.

Christian


   I received a key that was made based on the Chicago Lock H2007 key in 
Christian's picture:


http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pics/hp1000/keys/P1080975.JPG

   It works!

   I've asked our resident keymaster to post any specifications needed to 
duplicate this key.


   Thanks to everyone involved, for their help.


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: HP 2108A key

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Thanks for the link Fred. $10 for the key - worth a try. I'll get it and report 
if it works.
Marc

On Sep 22, 2017, at 12:50 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
wrote:

H2007 - double sided Chicago key, brass, in a 21MX in the pictures
http://www.ebay.com/itm/322652408202  (seller shows same picture for several 
different keys)

Re: HP 2108A key

[Curious Marc via cctalk]

Mike,
That makes two of us. I am interested too, I have the same key setup on my 21MX 
and have been looking for the key for a long time! So if someone can make it, I 
am interested!
Marc

On Sep 20, 2017, at 9:51 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
wrote:


  The key is for this switch on the front panel of the 2108A:

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg


Mike Loewenmloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technologyhttp://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:
> 
> what is the key# does mike need???
> 
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> 
> On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 Jay West via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
> wrote:
> No, that key won't work. The one Mike is looking for is dual sided key and 
> controls a switch (off, on, standby, etc.). Yours the key is just a latch.
> 
> I had a ton of those A machines, but guess I traded them all off. 
> Wouldn't surprise me, I standardized on the newer power supplies and E-series.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger 
> via cctalk
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 4:13 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: HP 2108A key
> 
> Well, I don't think you checked with *this* Jay. ;)
> 
> Would the key from an HP 2112B likely work? It looks very much like the
> 2108A, just a tad larger (more cards). I have an HP 2112B, and it has
> its key.
> 
> See a photo at :
> 
> http://webpages.charter.net/thecomputercollection/hp/hp2112b.htm
> 
> The key is 1 1/2" long, and has the number 4T1427 stamped on it.
> 
> JRJ
> 
> 
>> On 9/19/2017 6:38 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> Does anyone have a key for a HP 2108A? This is one of the original
>> 21MX M-series machines. The key is NOT the same as for the E and
>> F-series machines.
>> 
>> I already checked with Jay.
>> 
>> 
>> Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology
>> http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:

The correct cuts for the 4T1427 are 7241 read bow to tip.


Some manufacturers (Schlage) stamp the cuts on the key.
Some, in order to make that information "secure", reverse the sequence 
(slightly less secure that ROT-13).  But, mustn't reveal that secret.
In the mid-1970s, Honda did that with their door keys.  The ignition key 
was a lookup, but the door key had the cuts stamped on it in reverse 
order.

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

> Unmarked - single sided in an HP 1000 M-series; looks like a cheap
> generic cam lock, may be a post-sale replacement lock (due to too
> many keys extant, or the boss wandered off with the key) It is
> definitely NOT a match for either of the keys that Dennis described.
> Cuts from bow to tip look like they could be something like 6-1-3-1
> (depending on depth specs)


On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:

Confession time.  I copied the cuts by hand, and did it backwards
because of the similarty of the key designation.  Sigh.
The correct cuts for the 4T1427 are 7241 read bow to tip.
I _think_ Christian's last two systems (several photos each) both have
variants of the 4T1427.


I'm going to further speculate that the silver colored key in Christian's 
pictures was a sloppy duplicate.  Both because it is on an unmarked 
generic blank, and because the 2 and 1 cuts are too similar in depth.



Here's a catalog entry at CHM for another pair of 4T1427 keys:
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102668532

Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed via cctalk]

YIKES  I should  check too   I  do have  a   few 30 year old  keys on my  
ring. Pretty  sure  the  Hp-2000  and HP-3000 keys  are still there perhaps 
the   pdp-8 m or f  and possibly one  for the 2000ATimeshare  cabinets. 
 I will see what  else... you  tend  
to  put them on and never take them off.  Ed# ( that has a key  ring 
suitable  for self-defense.)



In a message dated 9/22/2017 1:48:39 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

YIKES  I should  check too   I  do have  a   few 30 yea old  keys on my  
ring. Pretty   sure the  Hp-2000  and HP-300 key  are still there and 
possibly  
one  for the 2000A   Timeshare  cabinets.  I will  see what  else... you  
tend 
to  put them on and never take  them off.  Ed#


In a message dated 9/22/2017 1:44:12 P.M. US  Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org  writes:

Well,  that explains one of my mystery keys on my  keychain... I used to 
work with HP  1000 systems. 
I still have  one of the HP 264x 'keys' which opened up the  terminal. 

From:  "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
To:  "cctalk"  <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017   1:20:42 PM 
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key 

> Unmarked - single  sided  in an HP 1000 M-series; looks like a cheap 
> generic cam  lock, may be a  post-sale replacement lock (due to too 
> many keys  extant, or the boss  wandered off with the key) It is 
> definitely  NOT a match for either of  the keys that Dennis described. 
> Cuts  from bow to tip look like they  could be something like 6-1-3-1 
>  (depending on depth specs)  

Confession time. I copied the cuts by  hand, and did it backwards  
because of the similarty of the key  designation. Sigh. 

The correct  cuts for the 4T1427 are 7241 read  bow to tip. 

I _think_ Christian's  last two systems (several  photos each) both have 
variants of the 4T1427.  

Here's a  catalog entry at CHM for another pair of 4T1427 keys:   
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102668532  

De  

Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed via cctalk]

YIKES  I should  check too   I  do have a   few 30 yea old  keys on my  
ring. Pretty  sure the  Hp-2000  and HP-300 key  are still there and possibly 
one  for the 2000A   Timeshare  cabinets.  I will see what  else... you  tend 
to  put them on and never take them off.  Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2017 1:44:12 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

Well,  that explains one of my mystery keys on my keychain... I used to 
work with HP  1000 systems. 
I still have one of the HP 264x 'keys' which opened up the  terminal. 

From: "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
To:  "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017  1:20:42 PM 
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key 

> Unmarked - single sided  in an HP 1000 M-series; looks like a cheap 
> generic cam lock, may be a  post-sale replacement lock (due to too 
> many keys extant, or the boss  wandered off with the key) It is 
> definitely NOT a match for either of  the keys that Dennis described. 
> Cuts from bow to tip look like they  could be something like 6-1-3-1 
> (depending on depth specs)  

Confession time. I copied the cuts by hand, and did it backwards  
because of the similarty of the key designation. Sigh. 

The correct  cuts for the 4T1427 are 7241 read bow to tip. 

I _think_ Christian's  last two systems (several photos each) both have 
variants of the 4T1427.  

Here's a catalog entry at CHM for another pair of 4T1427 keys:  
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102668532 

De  

Re: HP 2108A key

[Norman Jaffe via cctalk]

Well, that explains one of my mystery keys on my keychain... I used to work 
with HP 1000 systems. 
I still have one of the HP 264x 'keys' which opened up the terminal. 

From: "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
To: "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 1:20:42 PM 
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key 

> Unmarked - single sided in an HP 1000 M-series; looks like a cheap 
> generic cam lock, may be a post-sale replacement lock (due to too 
> many keys extant, or the boss wandered off with the key) It is 
> definitely NOT a match for either of the keys that Dennis described. 
> Cuts from bow to tip look like they could be something like 6-1-3-1 
> (depending on depth specs) 

Confession time. I copied the cuts by hand, and did it backwards 
because of the similarty of the key designation. Sigh. 

The correct cuts for the 4T1427 are 7241 read bow to tip. 

I _think_ Christian's last two systems (several photos each) both have 
variants of the 4T1427. 

Here's a catalog entry at CHM for another pair of 4T1427 keys: 
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102668532 

De 

Re: HP 2108A key

[Dennis Boone via cctalk]

 > Unmarked - single sided in an HP 1000 M-series; looks like a cheap
 > generic cam lock, may be a post-sale replacement lock (due to too
 > many keys extant, or the boss wandered off with the key) It is
 > definitely NOT a match for either of the keys that Dennis described.
 > Cuts from bow to tip look like they could be something like 6-1-3-1
 > (depending on depth specs)

Confession time.  I copied the cuts by hand, and did it backwards
because of the similarty of the key designation.  Sigh.

The correct cuts for the 4T1427 are 7241 read bow to tip.

I _think_ Christian's last two systems (several photos each) both have
variants of the 4T1427.

Here's a catalog entry at CHM for another pair of 4T1427 keys:
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102668532

De

RE: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Christian wrote
---
In total, there are three different keys used on the 21MX, 1000M and
1000E/F.
---


On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, Jay West via cctalk wrote:

Ug... no. There are not 3 different keys used. And for the record, the 1000M
and 1000E/F are *ALL* 21MX's, at least in the end. They are also all
"1000's" in the end as well :> But 21MX & 1000M/E/F is redundant.


Christian sent pictures of three keys.  I don't know anything about 
the machines, nor what might have been swapped between machines.

His pictures are:

H2007 - double sided Chicago key, brass, in a 21MX in the pictures
http://www.ebay.com/itm/322652408202  (seller shows same picture for 
several different keys)


4T1427 - single sided, in an HP 1000 E-Series; brass, no pictures of cuts; 
BUT, described in complete detail in Dennis Boone's post yesterday

"The CCL 4T1427 key, which is NOT what Mike needs, would be cut on an
Ilco S1003A blank, cuts 1427 bow-to-tip."

Unmarked - single sided in an HP 1000 M-series; looks like a cheap generic 
cam lock, may be a post-sale replacement lock (due to too many keys 
extant, or the boss wandered off with the key)  It is definitely NOT a 
match for either of the keys that Dennis described.   Cuts from bow to 
tip look like they could be something like 6-1-3-1 (depending on depth specs) 
At first glance, I thought that it might be a CH751 (THE most common cam 
lock), but it is slightly different.

RE: HP 2108A key

[Jay West via cctalk]

Christian wrote
---
In total, there are three different keys used on the 21MX, 1000M and
1000E/F.
---

Ug... no. There are not 3 different keys used. And for the record, the 1000M
and 1000E/F are *ALL* 21MX's, at least in the end. They are also all
"1000's" in the end as well :> But 21MX & 1000M/E/F is redundant.

There are two different keys for the 21MX (later called the 1000) line. One
key is for the systems where the front panel was a keyswitch. This is the
one that is doublesided. The other key is for systems where the front panel
was just a latch for the door of the cpu chassis. This is the one that is
single sided, with two notches.

The 2105, 2108, and 2112 (M series) could be had with either an A or B rev
power supply. I believe the power supply (A vs B) dictates which key is used
(or more precisely, whether it is just a latch or a switch). I don't believe
the 2109, 2113 (E series) or 2111, 2117 (F series) ever came with an A rev
power supply, just B. But even if they did, it was probably for a very short
time, as the A rev power supply was a nightmarish abortion that was quickly
tossed for the B redesign. Perhaps the A was only around for the
2105/2108/2109, and was tossed by the time the later models came out. In any
case, just two keys.

That third picture that Christian supplied is either the same key but just a
different blank, or someone swapped some locks around (as the E/F he
pictures it on is definitely just a latch).

Bonus points if anyone knows where the "MX" came from in the 21MX moniker.
Hint... MeasureX.

There was actually a 3rd key in a similar architecture HP machine, the
2100A/S systems. Those machines used the ace key that we're all familiar
with already, but they are most definitely not 21MX boxes.

J

Re: HP 2108A key

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 21 September 2017 at 19:59, Fred Cisin via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> We can sit on the front porch, waving our canes, and yelling at the kids to
> get off of the lawn.

Well quite.

> And continue to rant about the decline in education, software quality, and
> users, such as email clients that don't even show the user what they failed
> to trim in replies.

Gmail disabled its select-to-quote Labs feature recently, and now,
bottom quoting is significantly harder.

FOSS is meant to be better at copying existing software than creating
new stuff. I really wish someone had cloned the old,
pre-simplification GMail interface ...

http://blog.bobbyallen.me/2011/11/02/google-updates-its-web-mail-gmail-gui/

... and made it an app that could run against any random IMAP server.

But this is off-topic, so I'll shut up.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed via cctalk]

OK  that is helpful! I can look though the  box and  have  something to  
compare  with! 
 
For the purpose of  finding a match  for Mike's  2018   is that a single  
sided or double sided key Mike ( or others knowing) 
 
the HP MX Processor MXthat was  contributed to SMECC is thinner than  the 
ones here. I will have to get the model #  when I  am in that  area.   I need 
to replace fuse  holder on the back.Ed# - _www.smecc.org_ 
(http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2017 2:42:54 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

On Thu,  21 Sep 2017, Sam O'nella wrote:
> Should be easy but my mobile google fu  is failing. Didn't Jay and a few 
> others know if a vintage computer  key database/site somewhere? Would 
> that possibly have or benefit from  getting afterwards? null

Ok, I went into our storage and made some  pics:
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/hp1000/keys.html

In  total, there are three different keys used on the 21MX, 1000M and  
1000E/F.

Christian

Re: HP 2108A key

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Sam O'nella wrote:
Should be easy but my mobile google fu is failing. Didn't Jay and a few 
others know if a vintage computer key database/site somewhere? Would 
that possibly have or benefit from getting afterwards? null


Ok, I went into our storage and made some pics:
http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/hp1000/keys.html

In total, there are three different keys used on the 21MX, 1000M and 
1000E/F.


Christian

Re: HP 2108A key

[Sam O'nella via cctalk]

Should be easy but my mobile google fu is failing. Didn't Jay and a few others 
know if a vintage computer key database/site somewhere? Would that possibly 
have or benefit from getting afterwards?
null

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Liam Proven wrote:

I am finding it increasingly difficult to curb my curmudgeonliness as
I approach 50.


50 was relatively easy.


I think I must glumly conclude that there is basically nowhere that it
is safe to air it, and I must be constantly vigilant to rein it in.


We can sit on the front porch, waving our canes, and yelling at the kids 
to get off of the lawn.



And continue to rant about the decline in education, software quality, and 
users, such as email clients that don't even show the user what they 
failed to trim in replies.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed via cctalk]

Most of the  time  processors  came in whole  and   got  sold  out  as  
parts..
The  2  things that always seemed left overwere  keys and carcass!
Ed#
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/21/2017 10:25:38 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

>  > > I used to come home after a hard day with computers and if I had  
> > > weird keys 30 plus years ago they went into a box or  plastic bag..
> > So, YOU are the guy who always walked off with the  keys at the end of 
> > the day, and never brought them  back.

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> Excuse me?  I owned the company!
> My Company... my  keys..
> and in  those days   there were lots of them!
> How   funny!
> Ed#

Ah!
So you are the BOSS who would wander off with  the keys, and not bring them 
back!
("Never give the boss the only  key!")


I was the boss in my auto shop.  One of my employees  taught me the basics 
of locksmithing.  I never developed much skill,  but at least I could 
understand the theory.


--
Grumpy Ol'  Fred  ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

> > I used to come home after a hard day with computers and if I had 
> > weird keys 30 plus years ago they went into a box or plastic bag..
> So, YOU are the guy who always walked off with the keys at the end of 
> the day, and never brought them back.


On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, couryho...@aol.com wrote:

Excuse me? I owned the company!
My Company... my  keys..
and in those days   there were lots of them!
How  funny!
Ed#


Ah!
So you are the BOSS who would wander off with the keys, and not bring them 
back!

("Never give the boss the only key!")


I was the boss in my auto shop.  One of my employees taught me the basics 
of locksmithing.  I never developed much skill, but at least I could 
understand the theory.



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed via cctalk]

Excuse me? I owned the company!
 
My Company... my  keys..
and in those days   there were lots of them!
 
How  funny!
 
Ed#
 
 
 
In a message dated 9/21/2017 9:15:14 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

On 21  September 2017 at 18:02, Fred Cisin via  cctalk
 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 21 Sep  2017, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> I dunno what all  thathe means
>
>
> Q: Do you WANT to know what all thathe  means?
>
>> I am offering to
>> .look thru shoe box of  keys I Ave one if the thin mx processors do not
>> temember what  number but I know Keyes not in it... I used to come home 
after
>> a  hard day with computers and if I had weird keys 30 plus years ago  
they
>> went into a box or plastic bag..
>
>
> So,  YOU are the guy who always walked off with the keys at the end of the
>  day, and never brought them back.


Well, you know: certain things  are correlated.

"I am too important to bother to learn how to quote  properly."

"I am too important to bother to return keys."

Both  mean that the person doesn't respect other people, and expects
them to just  work around their "adorable little eccentricities".

It means, in short,  "fsck you".

I don't know about anyone else, but I know how _I_ respond  to folk like 
that.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile:  https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google  Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven •  Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 •  ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829  053

Re: HP 2108A key

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 21 September 2017 at 18:35, Fred Cisin via cctalk
 wrote:
> We all do it.
> I have my share of random keys from random unknown sources.

Sure, me too.

> There are plenty of things that I have no clue about.
> Some of which I would like to learn, and might or might not ever make the
> effort to do so;  and some that I don't want to know.

Absolutely. Also me.

> In the 1970s, between "the collapse of aerospace", and the availability of
> "tabletop computers" (I guessed wrong on what they would be called), I did
> auto repair, and learned the basics of that particular form of locksmithing
> and code cutting.  Otherwise, I would still be completely ignorant on the
> subject.
>
> I hope that we can chide each other, as friends.

No offence taken here. I was surprised, but it's a fair cop.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to curb my curmudgeonliness as
I approach 50.

I think I must glumly conclude that there is basically nowhere that it
is safe to air it, and I must be constantly vigilant to rein it in.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

We all do it.
I have my share of random keys from random unknown sources.

There are plenty of things that I have no clue about.
Some of which I would like to learn, and might or might not ever make the 
effort to do so;  and some that I don't want to know.


In the 1970s, between "the collapse of aerospace", and the availability of 
"tabletop computers" (I guessed wrong on what they would be called), I did 
auto repair, and learned the basics of that particular form of 
locksmithing and code cutting.  Otherwise, I would still be completely 
ignorant on the subject.



I hope that we can chide each other, as friends.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: HP 2108A key

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 21 September 2017 at 18:02, Fred Cisin via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> I dunno what all thathe means
>
>
> Q: Do you WANT to know what all thathe means?
>
>> I am offering to
>> .look thru shoe box of keys I Ave one if the thin mx processors do not
>> temember what number but I know Keyes not in it... I used to come home after
>> a hard day with computers and if I had weird keys 30 plus years ago they
>> went into a box or plastic bag..
>
>
> So, YOU are the guy who always walked off with the keys at the end of the
> day, and never brought them back.


Well, you know: certain things are correlated.

"I am too important to bother to learn how to quote properly."

"I am too important to bother to return keys."

Both mean that the person doesn't respect other people, and expects
them to just work around their "adorable little eccentricities".

It means, in short, "fsck you".

I don't know about anyone else, but I know how _I_ respond to folk like that.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

> The CCL 4T1427 key, which is NOT what Mike needs, would be cut on an
> Ilco S1003A blank, cuts 1427 bow-to-tip.
>
> The CAT99 key I see referenced in the list archives (might open a cab
> back door) would be on an Ilco S1000V, cuts 5 bow-to-tip.



On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:

I dunno what all thathe means


Q: Do you WANT to know what all thathe means?


I am offering to
.look thru shoe box of keys I Ave one if the thin mx processors do not 
temember what number but I know Keyes not in it... I used to come home 
after a hard day with computers and if I had weird keys 30 plus years 
ago they went into a box or plastic bag..


So, YOU are the guy who always walked off with the keys at the end of the 
day, and never brought them back.


Well, he provided complete description of what to look for. 
He described in industry terms exactly what two keys are, to the 
extent that a competent locksmith could make them without having seen the 
originals.


The first part is which keyblank - what will fit into the keyhole.  While 
a machinist could mill keys from a solid piece of brass, the description 
required is most easily handled by simply specifiying which commercial 
keyblank to use.  Ilco is the largest supplier, to it is customary to 
specify the Ilco number.  (like chip numbers) If you use a different 
supplier, then you need an appropriate cross-reference.


Next are the actual cuts made to the blank.
For a given application, there are standards for the "depth and spacing", 
how far apart the cuts are, where the first cut is, and how deep the cuts 
are.  That could be specified as measurements, but a competent locksmith 
has a "depth and spacings" database in which to look up the placement and 
depths for a given application.


Cuts are typically listed from the bow to the tip.  (The bow is what you 
hold, the tip goes into the keyhole).  An exception is Best, which is TIP 
indexed.   Non-locksmiths identify keys by the shape of the bow, which is, 
of course, irrelevant.


Cuts are specified numerically, starting with zero or one being the 
shallowist cut.  (Q: Can you explain why some computers number sectors 
from zero, and some number from one?) For a given application, there will 
be anywhere from 2 to 10 different depths of cuts.  So, one of his 
examples has four moderate cuts and then one deeper one.
His other example has a very shallow cut, a moderate one, a shallow one, 
and then a deep one.  If you LOOK at the cuts of a key, rather than 
habitually blank out with, "it's just incomprehensible random 
mountaintops", you can SEE whether a key had cuts that would fit that 
description.  BTW, the mountain tops are irrelevant, what matters is the 
depths of the valleys between them.


Notice that each valley has a flat area on the bottom (like Yosemite 
valley).  Thus, if you move the key in or out 1/4 mm, it doesn't change 
the depths.



On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Ed via cctalk wrote:

EEEK!  bad cell phone  typing!
OK  anyway I was under the  assumption that  the   hp  keys  would have 
certain number on them  depending on what  they  fit?

If I am wrong then unless I have a  photo this   group of old  keys
will be of  no use.
Just  a thought. Ed#


Sure, every key has a number.  Sometimes it is stamped on the key, 
sometimes it isn't.  Is every floppy disk labelled with what machine it 
goes with? Or its contents?


When it is labelled, the label is almost never the model of computer.  Do 
you know what an XX2247 key fits?

(Q: Is an 8272 chip marked with what it is for?)

The label may or may not be the depths of the cuts.  New Schlage keys (not 
duplicates) are stamped with their cuts - look at a few!


But, just as often, the cut is a seemingly random number, which doesn't 
tell you anything until you look it up in a "Code Book", which is a simple 
locksmith database where the key number indexes a list of the cuts for the 
key.  (XX2247 is NOT the depths of the cuts.  But if you look it up in the 
right Code Book, you can find out the cuts.


Your car keys (particularly old ones) might have a number stamped on them, 
or there might have been a paper tag on them when you bought your new car. 
If you save that number, then a locksmith can make a new key when you lose 
yours.   (Car owners normally never save that info!)


"Code Cutting" is the process of making a key from the key number.  Some 
municipalities have restrictions on doing it, ranging from no restrictions 
to outright prohibition, but usually mostly of the form of 
proving/convincing the locksmith that you OWN the lock in question, 
and have the right to have a key to it.  (carry the machine into the 
locksmith shop, or a letter of authorization on business letterhead, etc.)


There is no LOCKSMITH at Home Depot.  You need to find a REAL
locksmith, who has a suitable selection of blanks (hardware stores no 
longer do), and who has suitable equipment for cutting a key by code. 
That is either a key machine 

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
  Mike Thompson at the RICM is going to look for a number on the key 
for their 2108A, this weekend.


Ask if he can snap a few good close-up pictures of it.  While measurement 
from a picture isn't reliable, it doesn't have to be, if the picture is 
clear enough to decide whether a given cut is a 2 cut or a 3 cut.

Re: HP 2108A key

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

   Mike Thompson at the RICM is going to look for a number on the key for 
their 2108A, this weekend.



Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:


If we can id the Chicago double-sided key Mike _does_ need, I can
probably make it.

The CCL 4T1427 key, which is NOT what Mike needs, would be cut on an
Ilco S1003A blank, cuts 1427 bow-to-tip.

The CAT99 key I see referenced in the list archives (might open a cab
back door) would be on an Ilco S1000V, cuts 5 bow-to-tip.

De

Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

I dunno what all thathe means  I am offering to
.look thru shoe box of keys I Ave one if the thin mx processors  do not 
temember what number but I know Keyes not in it... I used to come home after a 
hard day with computers and if I had weird keys 30 plus years ago they went 
into a box or plastic bag..


Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 Dennis Boone via cctalk 
 wrote:
If we can id the Chicago double-sided key Mike _does_ need, I can
probably make it.

The CCL 4T1427 key, which is NOT what Mike needs, would be cut on an
Ilco S1003A blank, cuts 1427 bow-to-tip.

The CAT99 key I see referenced in the list archives (might open a cab
back door) would be on an Ilco S1000V, cuts 5 bow-to-tip.

De

Re: HP 2108A key

[Dennis Boone via cctalk]

If we can id the Chicago double-sided key Mike _does_ need, I can
probably make it.

The CCL 4T1427 key, which is NOT what Mike needs, would be cut on an
Ilco S1003A blank, cuts 1427 bow-to-tip.

The CAT99 key I see referenced in the list archives (might open a cab
back door) would be on an Ilco S1000V, cuts 5 bow-to-tip.

De

RE: HP 2108A key

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

I need a key number... do you have that jay?

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 Mike Loewen via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
wrote:

The key is for this switch on the front panel of the 2108A:

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:

> what is the key# does mike need???
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
> On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 Jay West via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
> wrote:
> No, that key won't work. The one Mike is looking for is dual sided key and 
> controls a switch (off, on, standby, etc.). Yours the key is just a latch.
>
> I had a ton of those A machines, but guess I traded them all off. 
> Wouldn't surprise me, I standardized on the newer power supplies and E-series.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger 
> via cctalk
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 4:13 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: HP 2108A key
>
> Well, I don't think you checked with *this* Jay. ;)
>
> Would the key from an HP 2112B likely work? It looks very much like the
> 2108A, just a tad larger (more cards). I have an HP 2112B, and it has
> its key.
>
> See a photo at :
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/thecomputercollection/hp/hp2112b.htm
>
> The key is 1 1/2" long, and has the number 4T1427 stamped on it.
>
> JRJ
>
>
> On 9/19/2017 6:38 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have a key for a HP 2108A? This is one of the original
>> 21MX M-series machines. The key is NOT the same as for the E and
>> F-series machines.
>>
>> I already checked with Jay.
>>
>>
>> Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology
>> http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

RE: HP 2108A key

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

   The key is for this switch on the front panel of the 2108A:

http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/HP2108A-8L.jpg


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:


what is the key# does mike need???

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 Jay West via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
wrote:
No, that key won't work. The one Mike is looking for is dual sided key and 
controls a switch (off, on, standby, etc.). Yours the key is just a latch.

I had a ton of those A machines, but guess I traded them all off. Wouldn't 
surprise me, I standardized on the newer power supplies and E-series.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger via 
cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 4:13 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key

Well, I don't think you checked with *this* Jay. ;)

Would the key from an HP 2112B likely work? It looks very much like the
2108A, just a tad larger (more cards). I have an HP 2112B, and it has
its key.

See a photo at :

http://webpages.charter.net/thecomputercollection/hp/hp2112b.htm

The key is 1 1/2" long, and has the number 4T1427 stamped on it.

JRJ


On 9/19/2017 6:38 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:


Does anyone have a key for a HP 2108A? This is one of the original
21MX M-series machines. The key is NOT the same as for the E and
F-series machines.

I already checked with Jay.


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology
http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

RE: HP 2108A key

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

what is the key# does mike need???

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 Jay West via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
wrote:
No, that key won't work. The one Mike is looking for is dual sided key and 
controls a switch (off, on, standby, etc.). Yours the key is just a latch.

I had a ton of those A machines, but guess I traded them all off. Wouldn't 
surprise me, I standardized on the newer power supplies and E-series.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger via 
cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 4:13 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key

Well, I don't think you checked with *this* Jay. ;)

Would the key from an HP 2112B likely work? It looks very much like the
2108A, just a tad larger (more cards). I have an HP 2112B, and it has
its key.

See a photo at :

http://webpages.charter.net/thecomputercollection/hp/hp2112b.htm

The key is 1 1/2" long, and has the number 4T1427 stamped on it.

JRJ


On 9/19/2017 6:38 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a key for a HP 2108A? This is one of the original 
> 21MX M-series machines. The key is NOT the same as for the E and 
> F-series machines.
> 
> I already checked with Jay.
> 
> 
> Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology 
> http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
> 

RE: HP 2108A key

[Jay West via cctalk]

No, that key won't work. The one Mike is looking for is dual sided key and 
controls a switch (off, on, standby, etc.). Yours the key is just a latch.

I had a ton of those A machines, but guess I traded them all off. Wouldn't 
surprise me, I standardized on the newer power supplies and E-series.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger via 
cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 4:13 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key

Well, I don't think you checked with *this* Jay.  ;)

Would the key from an HP 2112B likely work?  It looks very much like the
2108A, just a tad larger (more cards).I have an HP 2112B, and it has
its key.

See a photo at :

http://webpages.charter.net/thecomputercollection/hp/hp2112b.htm

The key is 1 1/2" long, and has the number 4T1427 stamped on it.

JRJ


On 9/19/2017 6:38 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
> 
>Does anyone have a key for a HP 2108A?  This is one of the original 
> 21MX M-series machines.  The key is NOT the same as for the E and 
> F-series machines.
> 
>I already checked with Jay.
> 
> 
> Mike Loewenmloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology 
>
> http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
> 

Re: HP 2108A key

[Jay Jaeger via cctalk]

Well, I don't think you checked with *this* Jay.  ;)

Would the key from an HP 2112B likely work?  It looks very much like the
2108A, just a tad larger (more cards).I have an HP 2112B, and it has
its key.

See a photo at :

http://webpages.charter.net/thecomputercollection/hp/hp2112b.htm

The key is 1 1/2" long, and has the number 4T1427 stamped on it.

JRJ


On 9/19/2017 6:38 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
> 
>    Does anyone have a key for a HP 2108A?  This is one of the original
> 21MX M-series machines.  The key is NOT the same as for the E and
> F-series machines.
> 
>    I already checked with Jay.
> 
> 
> Mike Loewen    mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
> Old Technology    http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
> 

HP 2108A key

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

   Does anyone have a key for a HP 2108A?  This is one of the original 
21MX M-series machines.  The key is NOT the same as for the E and F-series 
machines.


   I already checked with Jay.


Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/