Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

Hello, On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:24 PM, Liam Proven wrote: > On 23 May 2016 at 13:25, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: >> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mattis Lind wrote: >>> >>> Isn't it possible to run dosemu on FreeBSD? I use imdv in

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 23 May 2016 at 13:25, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mattis Lind wrote: >> >> Isn't it possible to run dosemu on FreeBSD? I use imdv in dosemu on Linux. > > Unfortunately, dosemu only works on i386, not amd64. Is that a

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

Update on NDwiki: On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 2:09 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 3:20 AM, Tor Arntsen wrote: >> >> Ah, positive news. In the meantime I've been half-busy creating a >> local (private, for now) re-construction of NDwiki,

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 8:36 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > > On 5/22/16 4:52 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > >> Now I just need to find a tool that converts IMD to raw format and >> runs on FreeBSD. > > http://bitsavers.org/bits/convergent/ngen/imd2raw > may be adequate. There may

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

2016-05-23 4:30 GMT+02:00 Tor Arntsen : > On 21 May 2016 at 18:38, Mattis Lind wrote: > > > I have now added some 80 more floppies to download if you would like to > > check. > > > >

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mattis Lind wrote: > > Isn't it possible to run dosemu on FreeBSD? I use imdv in dosemu on Linux. Unfortunately, dosemu only works on i386, not amd64. -- Regards, Torfinn

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 05/22/2016 07:30 PM, Tor Arntsen wrote: > Chuck, the problem with IMDU is that it's an ms-dos program and > Torfinn hasn't yet found a working emulator for his BSD setup. I'm > sure there is one. But it's very inconvenient to have to go through > MSDOS for this, so Al's suggestion of the

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 21 May 2016 at 18:38, Mattis Lind wrote: > I have now added some 80 more floppies to download if you would like to > check. > > http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-floppy-disks Thanks Mattis! Downloaded. I will go through them soon. Chuck, the

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 05/22/2016 11:36 AM, Al Kossow wrote: > > > On 5/22/16 4:52 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > >> Now I just need to find a tool that converts IMD to raw format and >> runs on FreeBSD. > > http://bitsavers.org/bits/convergent/ngen/imd2raw may be adequate. > There may also be other versions

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 5/22/16 4:52 AM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > Now I just need to find a tool that converts IMD to raw format and > runs on FreeBSD. http://bitsavers.org/bits/convergent/ngen/imd2raw may be adequate. There may also be other versions around that people have squashed bugs in it.

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

söndag 22 maj 2016 skrev Torfinn Ingolfsen : > On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Mattis Lind > wrote: > > > > I have now added some 80 more floppies to download if you would like to > > check. > > > >

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Mattis Lind wrote: > > I have now added some 80 more floppies to download if you would like to > check. > > http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-floppy-disks Very cool! Now I just need to find a tool that converts IMD

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

2016-04-22 14:52 GMT+02:00 Tor Arntsen : > On 21 April 2016 at 14:43, Mattis Lind wrote: > > > PED2.DMK and DISK8.IMD is the same disk, but different ways of reading it > > off the disk. I used both the standard PC-floppy and then also the > > catweasel

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 3:20 AM, Tor Arntsen wrote: > > Ah, positive news. In the meantime I've been half-busy creating a > local (private, for now) re-construction of NDwiki, from archive.org. I was thinking about doing the same, but so far I haven't. > BTW in case you don't

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 4 May 2016 at 01:25, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > Update on NDwiki: > > I've been in contact with the persons responsible for NDwiki. > Unfortunately, the Swedish gentleman who ran ndwiki.org got very busy > with real life just after his server died, and still hasn't found

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

Update on NDwiki: On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Tor Arntsen wrote: > > We (a few of us, including at least one more member of this list) used > to document everything ND we could figure out on the 'ndwiki.org' > site, but for unknown reasons (to me at least) it started

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

f Jon Elson <el...@pico-systems.com> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2016 3:51 PM To: gene...@classiccmp.org; Discussion@ Subject: Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer) On 04/24/2016 03:33 PM, ben wrote: > On 4/23/2016 8:32 PM, dwight wrote: >> I recall going to Mike Quinn's and s

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/24/2016 03:33 PM, ben wrote: On 4/23/2016 8:32 PM, dwight wrote: I recall going to Mike Quinn's and seeing barrels of RTL. I wish now that I'd bought a bunch of them. Most DTL can be replace by a TTL except a few with different pinouts and the NAND with the diode expand pin. My oldest

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 4/23/2016 8:32 PM, dwight wrote: I recall going to Mike Quinn's and seeing barrels of RTL. I wish now that I'd bought a bunch of them. Most DTL can be replace by a TTL except a few with different pinouts and the NAND with the diode expand pin. My oldest equipment has a mix of DTL and TTL.

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

I recall going to Mike Quinn's and seeing barrels of RTL. I wish now that I'd bought a bunch of them. Most DTL can be replace by a TTL except a few with different pinouts and the NAND with the diode expand pin. My oldest equipment has a mix of DTL and TTL. Dwight

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 2016-Apr-23, at 4:15 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > On 04/23/2016 05:46 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> On 04/23/2016 02:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote: >> >>> I was surprised by the early date code on the 7490s when I ran across >>> them in a piece of test equipment. >> What was surprising to me is how

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/23/2016 05:46 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 04/23/2016 02:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote: I was surprised by the early date code on the 7490s when I ran across them in a piece of test equipment. What was surprising to me is how quickly the industry standardized on the TI 7400/5400 parts.

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/23/2016 04:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote: The interesting thing was that there seemed to be a distrust of LSI chips early on. I recall working on a project around 1973, where the lead engineer preferred to design his own UART from SSI rather than use one of the new UART chips. Well, he

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/23/2016 02:34 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote: > I was surprised by the early date code on the 7490s when I ran across > them in a piece of test equipment. What was surprising to me is how quickly the industry standardized on the TI 7400/5400 parts. Early (ca 1967) Moto databooks had MTTL I,

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 2016-Apr-23, at 10:06 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 04/23/2016 05:41 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: >>> From: Brent Hilpert >> >>> I'd say the 74181 (1970) deserves a mention here. Simpler (no >>> register component, ALU only) but it pretty much kicked off the >>> start of IC-level bit slicing. > >

Re: CDC 6600/Cyber 73 Memories - WAS: Harris H800 Computer

Now that we're on the subject of 6600's and the like... I have a bit of a puzzle. I have some CDC 7600 modules; these consist of 8 thin PCB's, with metal shielding in between. On the back, there are 8 rows of 16 pins, and on the front there are 8 rows of 6 recessed pins, staggered (I believe for

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/23/2016 11:29 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: Jon Elson > The 11/45 and 11/70 are mostly the same processor. ... > the data paths boards and FPU are the same part numbers 'Yes' to the FPP (well, there are two versions, the FP11-B and FP11-C, but they are both identical in

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

> AFAIK, the only non-FPP board in the CPU which is interchangeable > between the two machines is the M8132 (instruction register decode & > condition codes) So it seems like there's an(other) error in the DEC documentation. If one looks at 11/70 Maintenance Manual (EK-11070-MM-002),

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

> From: Jon Elson > The 11/45 and 11/70 are mostly the same processor. ... > the data paths boards and FPU are the same part numbers 'Yes' to the FPP (well, there are two versions, the FP11-B and FP11-C, but they are both identical in the two machines). 'No' to the data paths,

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/23/2016 07:41 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: Brent Hilpert > I'd say the 74181 (1970) deserves a mention here. Simpler (no register > component, ALU only) but it pretty much kicked off the start of > IC-level bit slicing. Yes, it was used in quite a few machines.

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/22/2016 11:10 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Yikes, too many typos, let me try over! I built a 32-bit micro-engine for a project that was eventually going to be an IBM 360-like CPU. I picked the 360, not because it was the greatest design, but it was VERY well laid-out and would be easy to write

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

> From: Brent Hilpert > I'd say the 74181 (1970) deserves a mention here. Simpler (no register > component, ALU only) but it pretty much kicked off the start of > IC-level bit slicing. Yes, it was used in quite a few machines. Among the PDP-11's alone, it is found in the -11/45,

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/22/2016 09:36 PM, ben wrote: > On 4/22/2016 10:17 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > What about Radio Shack? $2 for 7400 or 50 cents a gate. Now the > latest INTEL product has how many gates again? By the mid 80s, some of us were trying to think of creative uses for the Z80, which was then going for

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:03 PM, ben wrote: >> Not exactly bit-slice, but how about the National IMP-16 chip set? It's bit-slice. The RALU chips were four bits wide, and were used in at least three different processor architectures, the IMP-4, IMP-8, and IMP-16. (Despite

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/22/2016 09:03 PM, ben wrote: > Too Early , Too Slow , Too $$$ is my guess. With out the 6800/6502 > 8080/Z80 price wars, how much would a 8 bit CPU be in the late 70s? > $75? Given the price of memory and other "then-LSI" in the late 70s, $75 doesn't sound unreasonable at all. NSC did

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/22/2016 10:36 PM, ben wrote: I think the problem was memory at the time. What was the use having a FAST bitslice machine, but real memory at the time was SMALL and SLOw. Well, I had 45 ns static RAM for control store on my 2903 bit slice machine. Yes, those were 1K x 4 chips, and I

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 4/22/2016 8:54 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. wrote: Eric Smith mentioned: [2901 A, B, and C, CMOS versions] [2903 and 29203] [Intel 3001 and 3002] [MMI 5701/6701] [Motorola MC10800] I'd add the Texas Instruments SN74S481, SN54LS481 and SN74LS481 TTL 4 bit slices. The Schottky version had a 90ns

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On 04/22/2016 07:54 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. wrote: > I'd add the Texas Instruments SN74S481, SN54LS481 and SN74LS481 TTL > 4 bit slices. The Schottky version had a 90ns clock cycle and the > low power versions 120ns. These were 48 pins chips and didn't have > an internal register bank like the

bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

Eric Smith mentioned: > [2901 A, B, and C, CMOS versions] > [2903 and 29203] > [Intel 3001 and 3002] > [MMI 5701/6701] > [Motorola MC10800] I'd add the Texas Instruments SN74S481, SN54LS481 and SN74LS481 TTL 4 bit slices. The Schottky version had a 90ns clock cycle and the low power versions

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

I do, back at my old house. I even have a bunch of the old 10G line of chips, unused. They came out of Collins surplus back in the early 1990s. -- Will On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 8:37 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 6:25 PM, William Donzelli

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 6:25 PM, William Donzelli wrote: > There was a 29G01 offered for a short time. Worth several times their > weight in gold. Yes, I forgot about those. Gallium arsenide MESFET for very high speed. Anyone have data sheets for that family?

Re: bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

There was a 29G01 offered for a short time. Worth several times their weight in gold. -- Will On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 8:15 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Raymond Wiker wrote: >> I was a bit surprised to see that it used 2901 with

bit slice chips (was Re: Harris H800 Computer)

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Raymond Wiker wrote: > I was a bit surprised to see that it used 2901 with a date code of 1985 - > the 2901 was introduced 10 years before. The 2901 was the workhorse bit-slice data path chip for many years. The A, B, and C suffix parts were

Re: Harris H800 Computer

> On Apr 22, 2016, at 05:44, Kevin Anderson > wrote: > > The Vulcan Operation System (VOS) I wish I could remember what operating system was in use on the Harris that I used at UNLV in 1987-1989. I was given a slim photocopied booklet listing the basic

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 21 April 2016 at 14:43, Mattis Lind wrote: > PED2.DMK and DISK8.IMD is the same disk, but different ways of reading it > off the disk. I used both the standard PC-floppy and then also the > catweasel card. I tried the catweasel for some floppies that I had reading >

Re: Harris H800 Computer

I did not use the H800, but I cut my computing teeth on smaller Harris models in college (where my work study job was in the computer center, and I was also a computer science major) and then part-time employment afterwards with the Army Corps of Engineers, which was big on Harris computers at

Re: CDC 6600/Cyber 73 Memories - WAS: Harris H800 Computer

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 7:33 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > ... >> Neat. PLATO made extensive use of ECS, swapping per-terminal state >> and programs in and out of ECS for fast interactive service. ECS was >> also where most I/O buffers went, with PPUs doing disk and terminal >>

Re: CDC 6600/Cyber 73 Memories - WAS: Harris H800 Computer

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 5:01 PM, Rich Alderson > wrote: > > From: Paul Koning > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 11:48 AM > >> I don't think there are any Cyber 70 (CDC 6000 series) systems still >> running, but there's one in emulation, running PLATO. See

Re: CDC 6600/Cyber 73 Memories - WAS: Harris H800 Computer

On 04/21/2016 01:36 PM, Paul Koning wrote: > >> On Apr 21, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> >> ... Ten was a number that figured into various aspects. The clock >> was nomially 10 MHz; > > In serial numbers 1-7 only nominally -- the clock was a ring > oscillator,

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 4/21/16 12:38 PM, Kyle Owen wrote: > I'd be happy to dump the microcode/PROMs when I get some time, perhaps over > the summer. > > Kyle > thanks. I just saw the panels, so I'll pull them out for pics

RE: CDC 6600/Cyber 73 Memories - WAS: Harris H800 Computer

From: Paul Koning Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2016 11:48 AM > I don't think there are any Cyber 70 (CDC 6000 series) systems still > running, but there's one in emulation, running PLATO. See cyber1.org. > It even has emulated console tubes... I can't speak to Cyber 70 systems, but the 6500 at LCM

Re: CDC 6600/Cyber 73 Memories - WAS: Harris H800 Computer

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > ... > Ten was a number that figured into various aspects. The clock was > nomially 10 MHz; In serial numbers 1-7 only nominally -- the clock was a ring oscillator, tuned by tweaking wire lengths. Starting with serial

Re: CDC 6600/Cyber 73 Memories - WAS: Harris H800 Computer

On 04/21/2016 11:04 AM, Rick Bensene wrote: > I think that you were remembering the console of one of the Control > Data 6000/Cyber-70 series computers that you may have seen somewhere. > This series of Control Data machines were famous for their consoles > with two large, round, green-phosphor

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > I have two front panels for a similar system. > Think you could take some pictures? The lone picture I have of the H800 isn't a close-up of the panel, and I'd very much like to see what it looks like up close. It is a

Re: CDC 6600/Cyber 73 Memories - WAS: Harris H800 Computer

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 2:04 PM, Rick Bensene wrote: > > ... > The machine was an all-transistor design, based on the CDC 6600 > processor. It was liquid cooled, and had a large cooler unit that sat > with the machine that cooled the coolant (water) and circulated it > through

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 4/20/16 11:07 PM, Raymond Wiker wrote: > I was a bit surprised to see that it used 2901 with a date code of 1985 - > the 2901 was introduced 10 years before. > I designed a microcoded 12-bit graphics processor in 1985 using them. They were the thing to use until CMOS bit-slices came out

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 4/20/16 9:21 PM, Kyle Owen wrote: > I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system. it also would be a good thing to dump proms/microcode from them.

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 4/20/16 9:21 PM, Kyle Owen wrote: > I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system. Don't > know what I'll do with these for now, other than maybe hang them up for > display purposes...unless someone has one, what else can one do? > I have two front panels for a similar

CDC 6600/Cyber 73 Memories - WAS: Harris H800 Computer

Mark J. Blair wrote: > I also seem to remember an operator's console with two round CRTs on it, > but I might have fabricated that memory from whole cloth. > I think that you were remembering the console of one of the Control Data 6000/Cyber-70 series computers that you may have seen somewhere.

Re: ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

> On 21 Apr 2016, at 14:43 , Mattis Lind wrote: > >>> >>> Hey, this is useful. >>> Thanks for doing it! >> >> Yep! >> Already investigating. IMD gave me some trouble, had to resort to >> dosbox. Source for PED (Programmer's Editor) version G? I've never >> seen source. I

Re: Harris H800 Computer

> On Apr 21, 2016, at 07:27, Paul Koning wrote: > > Thick mat of twisted pair wiring, and console with two round CRTs, that's a > good description of a CDC 6000 series mainframe. They certainly weren't as > easy to use as Unix machines, but a lot faster than anything

Re: Harris H800 Computer

> On Apr 20, 2016, at 11:33 PM, Mark J. Blair <n...@nf6x.net> wrote: > > Back when I spent a couple of years at UNLV in the late 80s, I had a class in > which I was forced to use an account on a Harris H800 computer, if my memory > serves me correctly. Bei

ND-10 software - Re: Harris H800 Computer

> > > > Hey, this is useful. > > Thanks for doing it! > > Yep! > Already investigating. IMD gave me some trouble, had to resort to > dosbox. Source for PED (Programmer's Editor) version G? I've never > seen source. I have version F as a :PROG file. I'm guessing that Planc > version C may compile

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 21 April 2016 at 13:22, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Mattis Lind wrote: >> >> Speaking of NORD-10 I put some scanned documents here: >> http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-documentation >> and also

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Mattis Lind wrote: > > Speaking of NORD-10 I put some scanned documents here: > http://www.datormuseum.se/documentation-software/norsk-data-documentation > and also a few diskettes that I have imaged: >

Re: Harris H800 Computer

> Almost :-) > The NORD-10/S was a NORD-10 plus caching and paging, while the > bitsliced version was to be called NORD-10/M (M for 'micro'), and was > so fast that it was renamed NORD-100, which was shortened to ND-100 > later that same year (1978 - but the machine itself was released in > 1979,

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On 21 April 2016 at 08:07, Raymond Wiker wrote: > I was a bit surprised to see that it used 2901 with a date code of 1985 - > the 2901 was introduced 10 years before. > > In the late 1970s, Norsk Data implemented the ND10 architecture with the > 2901. It was thought that this

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:21:03PM -0500, Kyle Owen wrote: > > I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system. > > 74S00s, they were going for speed. > > The 2900s are the well-known bit-slice chips.

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:21:03PM -0500, Kyle Owen wrote: > I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system. 74S00s, they were going for speed. The 2900s are the well-known bit-slice chips. All definitely the level of technology I cut my teeth on. mcl

Re: Harris H800 Computer

t 8:33 PM, Mark J. Blair <n...@nf6x.net> wrote: > > Back when I spent a couple of years at UNLV in the late 80s, I had a class in > which I was forced to use an account on a Harris H800 computer, if my memory > serves me correctly. Being a BSD snob, I felt that was a terribl

Re: Harris H800 Computer

I seem to have acquired a few boards from a decommissioned system. Don't know what I'll do with these for now, other than maybe hang them up for display purposes...unless someone has one, what else can one do? http://imgur.com/a/NAThh This is the only picture I have of this particular

Re: Harris H800 Computer

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016, Mark J. Blair wrote: > Back when I spent a couple of years at UNLV in the late 80s, I had a > class in which I was forced to use an account on a Harris H800 > computer, if my memory serves me correctly. Being a BSD snob, I felt > that was a terrible impositio

Harris H800 Computer

Back when I spent a couple of years at UNLV in the late 80s, I had a class in which I was forced to use an account on a Harris H800 computer, if my memory serves me correctly. Being a BSD snob, I felt that was a terrible imposition, much like being forced to calculate compound interest