Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 1/24/18 2:53 PM, Electronics Plus wrote:
> Wyse 60 keyboards work out of the box as USB with a converter sold by 
> Orihalcon on ebay.


I was going to convert a Wyse keyboard to something that would work to replace 
the
missing keyboards from terminals.

It was easier just to throw them out.

RE: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

Wyse 60 keyboards work out of the box as USB with a converter sold by Orihalcon 
on ebay.
So do all IBM terminals with an 8 pin connector or any other IBM terminal 
keyboard (but not beamsprings).
The converters cost about $35-40 each. I use them to test all the terminal 
boards that I sell.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow via 
cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:51 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"



On 1/23/18 8:40 PM, Ian Primus via cctalk wrote:

> Ugh. Don't get me started. I collect terminals. Missing keyboards is a
> perennial problem, but it's gotten WAY worse in recent years.

I went a little crazy and started doing the same in 2017 to dump the firmware 
for MAME. There are now several working there because of that.

I ended up scrapping most of them in the fall because they were taking up too 
much space, and there was no chance of ever finding keyboards for them (esp the 
Qume ones).

I bought some Wyse kbs thinking I'd make a converter box, but then just decided 
what's the point.




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Re: IBM 3101 keyboard - was Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Santo Nucifora via cctalk]

Hi Ian,

I have a keyboard that looks similar but it's in several pieces because I
am currently in the process of restoring it.  The barrel plate (the plate
that holds the beam spring switches in place) and exterior needs paint.
This was very rusty and in rough shape when I got it but I'd love to see it
in use (if I can't find a 3101 terminal).  I also took the beam spring
switches apart and cleaned them up.  It is in need of final restoration but
I can't paint until summer now (or get it sent out).

Send me a message off-list and I'll take some pics.  Are there variations
to the 3101 terminal?  I'm not sure this particular keyboard is the right
one you need but if you have the IBM part number, I can check.

I am not the Canadian guy that Cindy sold those keyboards to but I can only
imagine what they went for. I now tend to buy these IBM keyboards first
(when they happen to come up) and match up the terminal later.  Doing it
the other way around just doesn't work any more.  I think this particular
model is sought after because it has the beam spring key switches and is
"slim line" compared to most other beam spring keyboards.  It also has
enough keys to have a decent PC layout, unfortunately.

Santo


On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Ian Primus via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Well, let me know if you find another one. Or, if anyone else has one
> they'd be willing to part with for reasonable money. The regular 3278
> type keyboards won't work on an IBM 3101 - and those are a lot more
> common. The one I need looks like this:
> https://i.imgur.com/1Cz8hMi.jpg
>
> It has the configuration switches to set the baud rate and such under
> that panel at the top.
>
> Without this particular keyboard, the terminal I have is useless - you
> can't even have it just receive/display data, since the configuration
> switches are in the keyboard.
>
>

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Switches for the buttons go bad, the rollers can corrode making for not so 
smooth movement and the rollers need cleaned. Opticals either work fine or 
they don't work at all (some early MS mice tended to die and had a recall).


-Original Message- 
From: Noel Chiappa via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:24 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

   > From: TeoZ

   > mouse (optical mice are better then the old ones with balls). I even
   > keep old ball mice around ... and those do wear out)

Huh? I've got old ball mice I've been using for years; they don't wear out.
The wires do get flaky after a long period of use (at which point I stop
using them - easier to switch than to chop an inch off the wire - the issue
is where it goes into the mouse), and you do have to clean them regularly,
but other than that...

Noel 



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Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: TeoZ

> mouse (optical mice are better then the old ones with balls). I even
> keep old ball mice around ... and those do wear out)

Huh? I've got old ball mice I've been using for years; they don't wear out.
The wires do get flaky after a long period of use (at which point I stop
using them - easier to switch than to chop an inch off the wire - the issue
is where it goes into the mouse), and you do have to clean them regularly,
but other than that...

Noel

IBM 3101 keyboard - was Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Ian Primus via cctalk]

Well, let me know if you find another one. Or, if anyone else has one
they'd be willing to part with for reasonable money. The regular 3278
type keyboards won't work on an IBM 3101 - and those are a lot more
common. The one I need looks like this:
https://i.imgur.com/1Cz8hMi.jpg

It has the configuration switches to set the baud rate and such under
that panel at the top.

Without this particular keyboard, the terminal I have is useless - you
can't even have it just receive/display data, since the configuration
switches are in the keyboard.

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:42 PM, Electronics Plus <sa...@elecplus.com> wrote:
> I had no idea you wanted one! I just sold 1 in superb shape, but yes, the 
> fellow did pay a fortune for them. He is in Canada.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian Primus 
> via cctalk
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 10:40 PM
> To: Guy Sotomayor; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"
>
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk 
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> …are the bane of my existence and should all rot in hell.
>>
>> Sorry, I just received an email from a “keyboard enthusiast” who was
>> looking for various IBM 327x keyboards and wanted to know if I could
>> help him and I needed to vent a little.
>
> Ugh. Don't get me started. I collect terminals. Missing keyboards is a 
> perennial problem, but it's gotten WAY worse in recent years. I have two 
> terminals here that are missing the keyboards because some "enthusiast" 
> bought them out from under me during an eBay transaction.
>
> So, now I have an Infoton and an IBM 3101 here that are completely worthless 
> because the keyboards are missing.
>
> And I have no hope of ever finding replacements - especially for the IBM 
> 3101, because that's one of the ones the keyboard jerks really seem to love 
> because it's the older beam spring kind.
>
> Grr.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[TeoZ via cctalk]

It's  not just on ebay. I asked fellow collectors on 68kmla about their 
machine to keyboard/mouse ratio and they all had more machines then 
keyboards. Sooner or later machines will be useless because there are not 
enough keyboards and mice to go around.


While I keep stacks of mac keyboards and mice in the garage and a stack of 
AT and IBM Model M keyboards in the house I have very few USB keyboards for 
more modern machines in my collection (mostly because by the time USB 
keyboards were common they were cheap junk). Most of the PS/2 keyboards made 
were also junk but I kept a few that were machine specific. I just use a KVM 
with a USB to PS/2 adapter and a Model M keyboard plus USB Microsoft Optical 
mouse (optical mice are better then the old ones with balls). I even keep 
old ball mice around for that vintage feel and to match my systems (and 
those do wear out). Amiga mice for one are pretty hard to find especially 
the A1000 models with the angled plug.


I don't have a problem with people stealing keyboards and junking systems 
when in all likelyhood the whole thing would get scrapped anyway. Many of 
the local machines I have saved over the years were just too heavy to ship 
and worthless at the time so they would have ended up in a dump anyway. How 
many terminal collectors are there now compared to ten years ago or 20 when 
terminal were more common? As keyboards are going up in value I suspect that 
they just keep getting traded around kind of like computers themselves 
(people buy them get bored and flip or trade them).



TZ
-Original Message- 
From: dwight via cctalk

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:28 PM
To: Ian Finder ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

How many Mac's do you see on ebay with no keyboard?

Dwight



From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Ian Finder via 
cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 11:37:14 AM
To: Daniel Seagraves; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:




> On Jan 23, 2018, at 12:15 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> Really, is this any worse than the gold bugs scrapping whole systems for
> the prospective precious metal content?

It seems worse to me because the gold bugs are ignorant and greedy but the
keyboardists are “computer people” and should know better.

Also as far as I know the gold bugs don’t deliberately target rare systems
for their rarity.



Thanks, Daniel, for this succinct differentiation!


--
  Ian Finder
  (206) 395-MIPS
  ian.fin...@gmail.com 



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Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 1/23/18 8:40 PM, Ian Primus via cctalk wrote:

> Ugh. Don't get me started. I collect terminals. Missing keyboards is a
> perennial problem, but it's gotten WAY worse in recent years.

I went a little crazy and started doing the same in 2017 to dump the firmware
for MAME. There are now several working there because of that.

I ended up scrapping most of them in the fall because they were
taking up too much space, and there was no chance of ever finding keyboards
for them (esp the Qume ones).

I bought some Wyse kbs thinking I'd make a converter box, but then just decided
what's the point.

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 1/24/18 10:28 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote:

> How many Mac's do you see on ebay with no keyboard?

Lots
A keyboard/mouse seems to add $100 to the price

And there lots of keyboards with no Macs, especially the
second-generation extended ADB ones.

If there didn't seem to be a glut of them on the market,
I'd list the NIB ones I have.

RE: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

I had no idea you wanted one! I just sold 1 in superb shape, but yes, the 
fellow did pay a fortune for them. He is in Canada.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ian Primus via 
cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 10:40 PM
To: Guy Sotomayor; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> …are the bane of my existence and should all rot in hell.
>
> Sorry, I just received an email from a “keyboard enthusiast” who was
> looking for various IBM 327x keyboards and wanted to know if I could
> help him and I needed to vent a little.

Ugh. Don't get me started. I collect terminals. Missing keyboards is a 
perennial problem, but it's gotten WAY worse in recent years. I have two 
terminals here that are missing the keyboards because some "enthusiast" bought 
them out from under me during an eBay transaction.

So, now I have an Infoton and an IBM 3101 here that are completely worthless 
because the keyboards are missing.

And I have no hope of ever finding replacements - especially for the IBM 3101, 
because that's one of the ones the keyboard jerks really seem to love because 
it's the older beam spring kind.

Grr.


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Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[dwight via cctalk]

Sorry I was so late on this thread. I that it would be interesting to note that 
I had a neighbor that was a scrapper. He'd used a jig and a band saw to remove 
the tantalum capacitors and ICs from the boards. One day he had a number of STD 
buss boards I happened to notice one of the parts he was stripping. It was a 
80187 co-processor. I told him that even if he melted this part down, it would 
only have 5 cents worth of gold in it. At that time they were selling on ebay 
for $100+ ea. I told him that it wouldn't hurt to look up some of the going 
prices for some of the chips on ebay. He had 10 of these parts. He told me that 
it wasn't worth his time to look these up. A different mind set than me.

How many Mac's do you see on ebay with no keyboard?

Dwight



From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Ian Finder via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 11:37:14 AM
To: Daniel Seagraves; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > On Jan 23, 2018, at 12:15 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Really, is this any worse than the gold bugs scrapping whole systems for
> > the prospective precious metal content?
>
> It seems worse to me because the gold bugs are ignorant and greedy but the
> keyboardists are “computer people” and should know better.
>
> Also as far as I know the gold bugs don’t deliberately target rare systems
> for their rarity.
>
>
Thanks, Daniel, for this succinct differentiation!


--
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 1/24/18 7:21 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:

> So, you have 2 choices:
> 
> [1] Buy an expensive modern mechanical keyboard
> 

Unless they are REALLY expensive, modern mechanical keyboard keycaps suck.
For some reason, they think the classic fonts are ugly and replace them
with REALLY ugly ones, or light all the keys or...

I bought a Nixeus one, and had to spend another $100 for a set of black 
double-shot
keycaps that ALMOST look as good as the classic Sanserif ones. But.. this was 
for a
Mac so I ended up with having to keep the old "cmd" keys, which are slightly 
the wrong
height and have the legends worn off (not double-shot)

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 24 January 2018 at 16:32, Toby Thain  wrote:
>
> We joke that they have no qualms about Dremeling them out and sticking
> Raspberry Pis inside, making them worthless for the original systems.

I hate that. I have told at least 1 friend to think about WTF he was
doing when he proposed this.

I don't think he understood. The perils of the correlation of techie
interest and being on the autistic spectrum.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2018-01-24 10:21 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
> On 24 January 2018 at 16:05, Toby Thain via cctalk
>  wrote:
> 
>> Well, if it's universally held to be desirable then there's a chance of
>> seeing one on a secondary market. But it probably therefore also be
>> overpriced.
> 
> There's that. The flipside is that there is considerable effort going
> into devising keyboard interfaces for retro keyboards to modern
> computers, and in principle, that could be reversed.

We joke that they have no qualms about Dremeling them out and sticking
Raspberry Pis inside, making them worthless for the original systems.

--T

> 
>> Bloody wankers. Keyboard is the least interesting part of a system, I
>> don't understand the fetishisation.
> 
> Hmmm. I am a bit torn here.
> ...

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On 24 January 2018 at 16:05, Toby Thain via cctalk
 wrote:

> Well, if it's universally held to be desirable then there's a chance of
> seeing one on a secondary market. But it probably therefore also be
> overpriced.

There's that. The flipside is that there is considerable effort going
into devising keyboard interfaces for retro keyboards to modern
computers, and in principle, that could be reversed.

> Bloody wankers. Keyboard is the least interesting part of a system, I
> don't understand the fetishisation.

Hmmm. I am a bit torn here.

I don't want to defend them, but I am a sort of accidental keyboard
collector myself. I hang out in some of the communities.

The first PC I ever used was an actual PC, an IBM PC-XT, at
university. It lived in a corner of a side room of the computer
centre, standalone, unloved. All the "serious" "hackers" used DEC VT
terminals on the uni VAXcluster.

I played with it because it had the Infocom Hitchhikers' Guide game on
it. And the PC knowledge  gained thereby got me my 1st job and is why
I am sitting here in Nuremberg not writing documentation at this
precise moment today.

My 1st ever job was an IBM dealer, and I got used to the IBM
keyboards. I also worked on classic Macs and a tiny bit of IBM RS6000.

So the 2nd job, an Amstrad dealer, came as a shock. Nasty keyboards.
And of course they got much worse.

So for 25y or so, I've been slowly accumulating a small stockpile of
IBM Model Ms and Apple Extended 1 & 2 keyboards. I now have enough for
life.

Which means I can talk to the keyboard geeks.

I don't pay for them -- mine are all discards and the computers were
already gone. I sold most of my classic Macs when I left the UK and
all went with a keyboard, usually an AppleDesign one.

I sold a couple of isolated classic Apple keyboards but they didn't
make much so now I don't bother -- I keep 'em and use 'em instead.

But modern keyboards are almost universally horrid. They feel much the
same as each other, nasty and spongy.

So, you have 2 choices:

[1] Buy an expensive modern mechanical keyboard
[2] Buy an old vintage mechanical keyboard

Either way leads down a rabbit hole into a whole world.

But the vintage ones... well, people buy something cheap, like it, get
bored, get something else, find it is markedly different, buy another,
find it's different _again_ and that's it, they're hooked. I'm fairly
immune to this, as I'm old and have strong preferences already --
firstly, IBM Model Ms or early Apple ADB mechanicals, and secondly,
not spending much money.

The older and rarer you go, the more expensive the machine was when
new. Thus the higher quality the keyboard was. Thus the better it
feels, by and large. So that leads to a vicious cycle of seeking out
older, rarer keyboards. And once you get used to weird old ones, then
they become fun, so people get into them for their own merits.

I'm aghast that this has now led to complete vintage systems being
gutted and discarded for just the keyboard. I agree with the
ivory-poacher simile.

The only thing I can see countering it would be a trend of companies
making _good_ modern mechanical boards, especially with weird layouts
and USB ports. It might satisfy those who just want something
_different_ and don't need it to be old.

But I have played with another list-member's Unicomp "Model M" and it
was nothing like as good as a real IBM. It felt cheap and nasty by
comparison, although the key action was good.

I've also tried a couple of mechanical gamers' keyboards and they
weren't great either. I fear commoditisation and mass-production means
that real vintage quality might be unattainable today without making
the results more expensive than vintage ones.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2018-01-23 11:40 PM, Ian Primus via cctalk wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> …are the bane of my existence and should all rot in hell.
>>
>> Sorry, I just received an email from a “keyboard enthusiast” who was looking 
>> for
>> various IBM 327x keyboards and wanted to know if I could help him and I 
>> needed
>> to vent a little.
> 
> Ugh. Don't get me started. I collect terminals. Missing keyboards is a
> perennial problem, but it's gotten WAY worse in recent years. I have
> two terminals here that are missing the keyboards because some
> "enthusiast" bought them out from under me during an eBay transaction.
> 
> So, now I have an Infoton and an IBM 3101 here that are completely
> worthless because the keyboards are missing.
> 
> And I have no hope of ever finding replacements - especially for the
> IBM 3101, because that's one of the ones the keyboard jerks really
> seem to love because it's the older beam spring kind.

Well, if it's universally held to be desirable then there's a chance of
seeing one on a secondary market. But it probably therefore also be
overpriced.

Bloody wankers. Keyboard is the least interesting part of a system, I
don't understand the fetishisation.

--T

> 
> Grr.
> 

Re: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Geoffrey Oltmans via cctalk]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:31 AM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk  wrote:

> ah  do they  don't  just  collect just loose keyboards  they 'snatch'
>  keyboards  leaving the rest of the carcus  to of the terminal to  rot??
>
>
>
>
I suspect that the problem may be two-sided. Could be there are a fair
number of people that stash an old computer and toss the keyboards thinking
they can just use some off the shelf one later.

Re: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

ah  do they  don't  just  collect just loose keyboards  they 'snatch'  
keyboards  leaving the rest of the carcus  to of the terminal to  rot??


I knew this  went on with front panels...
 
Ed#
 
In a message dated 1/23/2018 9:40:22 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
 On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk
 wrote:
> …are the bane of my existence and should all rot in hell.
>
> Sorry, I just received an email from a “keyboard enthusiast” who was looking 
> for
> various IBM 327x keyboards and wanted to know if I could help him and I needed
> to vent a little.

Ugh. Don't get me started. I collect terminals. Missing keyboards is a
perennial problem, but it's gotten WAY worse in recent years. I have
two terminals here that are missing the keyboards because some
"enthusiast" bought them out from under me during an eBay transaction.

So, now I have an Infoton and an IBM 3101 here that are completely
worthless because the keyboards are missing.

And I have no hope of ever finding replacements - especially for the
IBM 3101, because that's one of the ones the keyboard jerks really
seem to love because it's the older beam spring kind.

Grr.

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Ian Primus via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk
 wrote:
> …are the bane of my existence and should all rot in hell.
>
> Sorry, I just received an email from a “keyboard enthusiast” who was looking 
> for
> various IBM 327x keyboards and wanted to know if I could help him and I needed
> to vent a little.

Ugh. Don't get me started. I collect terminals. Missing keyboards is a
perennial problem, but it's gotten WAY worse in recent years. I have
two terminals here that are missing the keyboards because some
"enthusiast" bought them out from under me during an eBay transaction.

So, now I have an Infoton and an IBM 3101 here that are completely
worthless because the keyboards are missing.

And I have no hope of ever finding replacements - especially for the
IBM 3101, because that's one of the ones the keyboard jerks really
seem to love because it's the older beam spring kind.

Grr.

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Steve Malikoff via cctalk]

Al said:
> On 1/23/18 11:01 AM, Ian Finder via cctalk wrote:
>> I too have always enjoyed the analogy to ivory poachers.
>>
>
> Those are computer front panel collectors.


Sometimes this has a good outcome: a couple of years ago I acquired a slimline 
11/10 with a
home-made front switch panel, the original presumably souvenired in the distant 
past.
When it arrived, I realised it was an early production model with the cast 
Mazak lower bezel
without the air slots. This is the version shown in the 11/05 handbook 
photographs.

Last December an early 11/10 console with the unpainted cast DIGITAL logo and 
lower black
trim stripe under the switches appeared on the usual auction site, so I was 
very keen to
acquire it, which I managed to, and after finding some of the correct # screws 
and star washers
it's now with the rest of the machine.
It's a nice feeling to get a console back onto the rest of the computer and 
even nicer to have
the chronologically correct one as well.
The advesive tape holding the plastic nomenclature strip on had perished, and 
on the reverse side
of the strip is written in pencil '2-73' which would match the era.

Steve.

Re: Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

When  out and  about when I saw a keyboard with some unworldly number of  
function keys  on it ( I recall one  with 3  rows of them... and other oddities 
) I   got and stashed them now  to find them..   
 
 We are stating a  move to  convert  boxed of  weird  odds and ends  stuff ( in 
the computer  area,  general science area, teletype area and radio area)  to  
$$$   for  re-roofing  buildings... and completing half  completed  groups of 
things into  finished  displays all this  stuff is   fun and neat  but  
time  to focus  some  I think...
 
 
what is the  market  on odd keyboards? 
 
 
thx  Ed# www.smecc.org 
 
In a message dated 1/23/2018 3:23:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
 On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:58 PM, william degnan via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Did anyone attend VCF South East this past year, there was a large table
> run by a keyboard vendor. Just keyboards, laid out like tusks from poached
> elephants.
>

Lol! I love it.

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

On 2018-01-23 7:49 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:


On 1/23/18 10:53 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

  it seems these
people do it for 'fun'.

As an experiment I put a couple of obscure mechanical keyboards up on eBay,
like Tektronix reed switch APL ones and NOS Kaypros
with a high price but a 'make offer' and have gotten zero interest in them.

They also do stupid sh*t like minutia details on the 9816 keyboard but then
don't write down the actual HP part number for it.

https://deskthority.net/wiki/HP_9816

Nice "Volume adjuster for beeper on left"  and on bottom view "bulky 
beeper on the top right"


Paul.

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 1/23/18 11:01 AM, Ian Finder via cctalk wrote:
> I too have always enjoyed the analogy to ivory poachers.
> 

Those are computer front panel collectors.

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Geoffrey Oltmans via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> …are the bane of my existence and should all rot in hell.
>
> Sorry, I just received an email from a “keyboard enthusiast” who was
> looking for
> various IBM 327x keyboards and wanted to know if I could help him and I
> needed
> to vent a little.
>
> I sent him a polite “no way in hell” response but I’m still angry about
> it.  These
> terminals are hard enough to find.  And more often than not, the keyboard
> is
> missing because some “enthusiast” thought it would be cool to convert it
> to a PC
> keyboard.  ARG!  And of course the keyboards that they want are the
> “typewriter”
> keyboards (all of my 3278 terminals have the “data entry keyboard”).
>
>
In their defense (and yes, I think they are awful no good people), I guess
you can't fault them too much since up until fairly recently a quality
mechanical keyboard was either too expensive or practically impossible to
source for a modern computer, what with the obsession with flat square
keycaps with next to no travel, etc. At least now we are starting to get
some decent lower cost options in the marketplace as new. Maybe these new
keyboards will dissuade people from destroying rare artifacts.

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Geoffrey Oltmans via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:58 PM, william degnan via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Did anyone attend VCF South East this past year, there was a large table
> run by a keyboard vendor.  Just keyboards, laid out like tusks from poached
> elephants.
>

Lol! I love it.

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Ian Finder via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > On Jan 23, 2018, at 12:15 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Really, is this any worse than the gold bugs scrapping whole systems for
> > the prospective precious metal content?
>
> It seems worse to me because the gold bugs are ignorant and greedy but the
> keyboardists are “computer people” and should know better.
>
> Also as far as I know the gold bugs don’t deliberately target rare systems
> for their rarity.
>
>
Thanks, Daniel, for this succinct differentiation!


-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Daniel Seagraves via cctalk]

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 12:15 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Really, is this any worse than the gold bugs scrapping whole systems for
> the prospective precious metal content?

It seems worse to me because the gold bugs are ignorant and greedy but the 
keyboardists are “computer people” and should know better.

Also as far as I know the gold bugs don’t deliberately target rare systems for 
their rarity.

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Ian Finder via cctalk]

I too have always enjoyed the analogy to ivory poachers.

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 10:58 AM, william degnan via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> >
> > Well, the latter are presumably in it as a business, whereas it seems
> these
> > people do it for 'fun'.
> >
> > Now there's an idea: perhaps we could convince them that pulling the
> wings
> > off flies is a more entertaining hobby?
> >
> > Noel
> >
>
> Did anyone attend VCF South East this past year, there was a large table
> run by a keyboard vendor.  Just keyboards, laid out like tusks from poached
> elephants.
>
> b
>



-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[william degnan via cctalk]

>
> Well, the latter are presumably in it as a business, whereas it seems these
> people do it for 'fun'.
>
> Now there's an idea: perhaps we could convince them that pulling the wings
> off flies is a more entertaining hobby?
>
> Noel
>

Did anyone attend VCF South East this past year, there was a large table
run by a keyboard vendor.  Just keyboards, laid out like tusks from poached
elephants.

b

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Chuck Guzis

> Really, is this any worse than the gold bugs scrapping whole systems
> for the prospective precious metal content?

Well, the latter are presumably in it as a business, whereas it seems these
people do it for 'fun'.

Now there's an idea: perhaps we could convince them that pulling the wings
off flies is a more entertaining hobby?

Noel

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Ian Finder via cctalk]

I get these all the time with Lisp Machines. "Yo can I get a keyboard!"

UGH.

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 01/23/2018 09:44 AM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote:
>
> > One of them scrapped a Symbolics XL for the keyswitches. That would
> > be bad enough, but it gets worse - They did because they thought it
> > was a CADR "Space Cadet” keyboard.
> Really, is this any worse than the gold bugs scrapping whole systems for
> the prospective precious metal content?
>
> --Chuck
>



-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 01/23/2018 09:44 AM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote:

> One of them scrapped a Symbolics XL for the keyswitches. That would
> be bad enough, but it gets worse - They did because they thought it
> was a CADR "Space Cadet” keyboard.
Really, is this any worse than the gold bugs scrapping whole systems for
the prospective precious metal content?

--Chuck

Re: Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Daniel Seagraves via cctalk]

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:35 AM, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> …are the bane of my existence and should all rot in hell.
> 
> Sorry, I just received an email from a “keyboard enthusiast” who was looking 
> for
> various IBM 327x keyboards and wanted to know if I could help him and I needed
> to vent a little.
> 
> I sent him a polite “no way in hell” response but I’m still angry about it.  
> These 
> terminals are hard enough to find.  And more often than not, the keyboard is
> missing because some “enthusiast” thought it would be cool to convert it to a 
> PC
> keyboard.  ARG!  And of course the keyboards that they want are the 
> “typewriter”
> keyboards (all of my 3278 terminals have the “data entry keyboard”).

One of them scrapped a Symbolics XL for the keyswitches. That would be bad 
enough, but it gets worse - They did because they thought it was a CADR "Space 
Cadet” keyboard.

Keyboard "enthusiasts"

[Guy Sotomayor via cctalk]

…are the bane of my existence and should all rot in hell.

Sorry, I just received an email from a “keyboard enthusiast” who was looking for
various IBM 327x keyboards and wanted to know if I could help him and I needed
to vent a little.

I sent him a polite “no way in hell” response but I’m still angry about it.  
These 
terminals are hard enough to find.  And more often than not, the keyboard is
missing because some “enthusiast” thought it would be cool to convert it to a PC
keyboard.  ARG!  And of course the keyboards that they want are the “typewriter”
keyboards (all of my 3278 terminals have the “data entry keyboard”).

TTFN - Guy