Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
On Fri, 7 Dec 2018, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From>: Christian Corti > I thought that the DEC packs would be similar but no, DEC had to invent > something different... Huh? I thought RL0x drives use an IBM 5440 type pack (as used on the IBM Yes, I mean the mechanism of the handle that is different, not the entire pack. Christian
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
> From: Paul Birkel >> I thought RL0x drives use an IBM 5440 type pack (as used on the IBM >> System/3 DEC may have used their own format (and servo track >> stuff), I don't know much about the 5440. > Sounds to me like it was different, but in a good way? I took a look, and found a manual for a 5440: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/system3/GA33-3002-0_5444_5440_ComponentsDescr_Aug70.pdf and the details (format, etc) are indeed different. The packs are physically compatible, but that's as far as it goes. Noel
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
> On Dec 7, 2018, at 11:11 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk > wrote: > > > Quoted from "DISK DRIVE CONTROL: THE EARLY YEARS" (Abramovitch & Franklin) > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3206778_A_brief_history_of_disk_dri > ve_control > > "DEC came out with the 125 TPI RL01 disk drive in 1978,which was the first > mass > produced full sectored (embedded) servo drive on the market." > > Sounds to me like it was different, but in a good way? > > paul A good way, definitely. Embedded servo enables the vastly higher densities we have today, and also enables the use of all surfaces. A dedicated servo surface is not a major hit on an RP06 that has 10 platters, but on a one or two platter pack it's way too much overhead. paul
RE: Opening RL02 disk pack
-Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel Chiappa via cctalk Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 10:24 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Opening RL02 disk pack > From>: Christian Corti > I thought that the DEC packs would be similar but no, DEC had to invent > something different... Huh? I thought RL0x drives use an IBM 5440 type pack (as used on the IBM System/3 - I used one of those at my first computer job, they'd just gotten it in); DEC may have used their own format (and servo track stuff), I don't know much about the 5440. Noel Quoted from "DISK DRIVE CONTROL: THE EARLY YEARS" (Abramovitch & Franklin) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/3206778_A_brief_history_of_disk_dri ve_control "DEC came out with the 125 TPI RL01 disk drive in 1978,which was the first mass produced full sectored (embedded) servo drive on the market." Sounds to me like it was different, but in a good way? paul
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
> From>: Christian Corti > I thought that the DEC packs would be similar but no, DEC had to invent > something different... Huh? I thought RL0x drives use an IBM 5440 type pack (as used on the IBM System/3 - I used one of those at my first computer job, they'd just gotten it in); DEC may have used their own format (and servo track stuff), I don't know much about the 5440. Noel
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018, it was written I don't know that anyone did that back in the day - the pack cleaners I'm aware of had arms that wiped the top and bottom surfaces of the platter while the platter was still mounted inside the shell. I know Well I don't have an RL pack cleaner. And in my case it won't suffice, I really need to access the top surface. There are some smudges that need more thorough cleaning with some pressure that I can't apply with just sticking in a swab or something from the side. OTOH the top loading disk packs for our Nova 3 (6045 drive) can be easily dismantled. I thought that the DEC packs would be similar but no, DEC had to invent something different... Christian
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
On 12/06/2018 10:28 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: Also, RK05s can be formatted by users (and often were), but owning to embedded servo data, you _can't_ format RL01/RL02 media in the field, so I'd be hesitant to dismantle the hub on an RL02 pack. -ethan I dropped an RL02 that had the only copy of some programs. When put on the drive, it vibrated badly, and the ready light flickered. I loosened the screws visible on the bottom, and adjusted the centering of the platter visually. I put it back on the drive, and the vibration was much less, but the ready light was still flickering. I adjusted the platter a few more times and then the ready light was solid on, and I was able to read the files! If the owner of the system know what i'd done in the middle of the night, they would have wanted my head! Jon
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:28 AM Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > Here are some pictures that hopefully clarify my question: > http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pics/temp/rl02/ > > How do I separate the platter from the top of the cartridge/cover? I don't know that anyone did that back in the day - the pack cleaners I'm aware of had arms that wiped the top and bottom surfaces of the platter while the platter was still mounted inside the shell. I know that RK05 packs _were_ opened and the platter/hub assembly removed, cleaned, and replaced, but they didn't have the locking handle of an RL01/RL02 cart. Also, RK05s can be formatted by users (and often were), but owning to embedded servo data, you _can't_ format RL01/RL02 media in the field, so I'd be hesitant to dismantle the hub on an RL02 pack. -ethan
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018, Christian Corti wrote: Well, this is exactly my question: how do I remove the disk (= platter) from the pack (= cartridge). And there are no magnets in the disk pack. Here are some pictures that hopefully clarify my question: http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pics/temp/rl02/ How do I separate the platter from the top of the cartridge/cover? Christian
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018, Michael Fritsch wrote: The top of the middle part of the handle (this with the slider) is only glued slighly at the base part. With a screwdriver it is removeable quite easy. After removing it, it reveals the secret of the mechanism. [...] Before doing this, remove the disk from the pack, otherwise you cannot get it off the magnets! Well, this is exactly my question: how do I remove the disk (= platter) from the pack (= cartridge). And there are no magnets in the disk pack. Christian
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018, it was written Wait, by 'open' do you mean 'release the bottom dust cover', or 'disassemble and remove all plastic till the platters are fully exposed'? Of course I mean 'disassemble and remove all plastic till the platters are fully exposed'. I know how to remove the bottom dust cover ;-)) By 'cleaning' do you mean blowing dust out with clean compressed air, or some kind of all-surfaces wash & wipe? The latter. I have a couple of disks that need some tougher cleaning than just gently wiping the surface. Christian
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
Sounds like a good youtube video topic... Marc On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:38 PM Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > At 02:09 PM 3/12/2018 +0100, Christian wrote: > >Hi, > >how does one open a RL02 disk pack? A couple of packs need cleaning but I > >can't figure out how to open them... > > > Wait, by 'open' do you mean 'release the bottom dust cover', > or 'disassemble and remove all plastic till the platters are fully > exposed'? > > By 'cleaning' do you mean blowing dust out with clean compressed air, > or some kind of all-surfaces wash & wipe? > > I'd assumed the former in both, thinking you might (like me) be new to DEC > hardware. > > If you actually want to do a thorough surface clean of the platters, how > does one > do that anyway? Is there a proceedure recommended by DEC? > Because I may eventually need to do this on old RLO2 packs I have, as I > get a > PDP 11-something system together. > > Guy >
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
At 02:09 PM 3/12/2018 +0100, Christian wrote: >Hi, >how does one open a RL02 disk pack? A couple of packs need cleaning but I >can't figure out how to open them... Wait, by 'open' do you mean 'release the bottom dust cover', or 'disassemble and remove all plastic till the platters are fully exposed'? By 'cleaning' do you mean blowing dust out with clean compressed air, or some kind of all-surfaces wash & wipe? I'd assumed the former in both, thinking you might (like me) be new to DEC hardware. If you actually want to do a thorough surface clean of the platters, how does one do that anyway? Is there a proceedure recommended by DEC? Because I may eventually need to do this on old RLO2 packs I have, as I get a PDP 11-something system together. Guy
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: Hi, how does one open a RL02 disk pack? A couple of packs need cleaning but I can't figure out how to open them... Christian The top of the middle part of the handle (this with the slider) is only glued slighly at the base part. With a screwdriver it is removeable quite easy. After removing it, it reveals the secret of the mechanism. Remove the plastic parts on both sides which act as hinges. Then pull the handle (with the "digital"-sign) outwards with some force. Possibly pry a screwdriver between the inner plastic part and the handle while still applying force to the handle. Eventually it will snap off the eyelets of the plate, which holds the disk in place. Reassembly is a bit fiddly. Before doing this, remove the disk from the pack, otherwise you cannot get it off the magnets! Micha
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
At 08:41 PM 5/12/2018 +1100, I stupidly wrote: >Ha, this made me realize I don't know either. Despite that I now have some >RLO3K-DC >packs, and one RLO2 drive. Typo. That should be RLO2K-DC.
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
At 12:24 PM 4/12/2018 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 5:09 AM Christian Corti via cctalk < >cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> Hi, >> how does one open a RL02 disk pack? A couple of packs need cleaning but I >> can't figure out how to open them... >> >> >I was curious to see if there would be any replies to this. I have just shy >of 40 RL02 packs, and a few of them had bad scratches rendering them >useless. Therefore, I attempted to open them in a non-destructive way, just >to see if it was possible. So far, I haven't had much luck. Also, I noted >that while all the packs I attempted were DEC (not clones), they did have >slightly different construction and mechanics, probably based on production >date. > >- Earl Ha, this made me realize I don't know either. Despite that I now have some RLO3K-DC packs, and one RLO2 drive. Dug one out. After a few moments of being stumped, found the trick. Here's how: On the blue handle, top center, look on the section that has the pivot pins. There is a flat plastic 'button' on which one end is slightly concave. With the handle DOWN (flat), put finger on that concave end of the button, and push sideways, till the button reaches the end of travel. With it still at end of travel, lift the handle up to vertical. At about 45 degrees (half way) you'll feel a resistance, then hear a thump. Once the handle is vertical, lift the pack up by the handle. The lower cover is separated and the disk is exposed. But it still is mostly covered, only a slot for the heads is open. You could lever open the several latches that hold the bottom inner cover on if you wanted. Guy
Re: Opening RL02 disk pack
On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 5:09 AM Christian Corti via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Hi, > how does one open a RL02 disk pack? A couple of packs need cleaning but I > can't figure out how to open them... > > I was curious to see if there would be any replies to this. I have just shy of 40 RL02 packs, and a few of them had bad scratches rendering them useless. Therefore, I attempted to open them in a non-destructive way, just to see if it was possible. So far, I haven't had much luck. Also, I noted that while all the packs I attempted were DEC (not clones), they did have slightly different construction and mechanics, probably based on production date. - Earl
Opening RL02 disk pack
Hi, how does one open a RL02 disk pack? A couple of packs need cleaning but I can't figure out how to open them... Christian
