Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 1:12 PM Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > I would suggest Caig > > I would suggest researching and understanding what their snake oil does > before > using any Caig product. > > Do not underestimate the lure of a good snake oil. I long for the smell of my ASR33. That KS7470 oil was magic. I stored it in the attic and would visit from time to time. But now the smell is gone. Evaporated. Like the perfume of a lost love it is no longer there. -chuck
RE: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
Ok, good article. From what I read, there are some things it doesn’t do. Author states "What it will not do. IT WILL NOT REMOVE RUST. IT WILL NOT REMOVE OXIDATION" cool beans. He also states that it isn’t as good as military products for aluminum salt fog. I hope the Op wasn’t planning to use his PDP-8/E in a salt fog. And the author indicates probably won't make your stereo sound better (or at least as good as the oxygenated copper power cord for $250). The OP wasn’t looking for rust removal or oxidation removal, so what it lacks doesn’t seem to disadvantage the op. In addition, the author says the product is good for many things, lubrication was one of them and apparently lighter fluid is excellent for corrosion prevention. Hardly seems like snake oil based on the author's article. Seems more like a product very similar (but perhaps not as good) as military products he's used. Ok. All in all, the author seems to indicate this might be a good product for the problem the OP was experiencing. The author simply rebuffs the argument made on audiophile websites indicating it is the miracle cure, which I think most rational people would agree on. So unless I misread the article, I'm still happy with my suggestion to the op. 73 Eugene W2HX -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Al Kossow via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 6:06 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication On 5/11/21 11:23 AM, W2HX wrote: > In probably 30 years I've been repairing equipment and among the dozen or so > electronics forums I belong to, you may be the first person I've run across > to throw some shade on that product. https://www.hagensieker.com/wordpress/2018/06/18/deoxit-what-is-it-what-isnt-it/ and Ben synthesizes some corrosion inhibitor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpRrP3sqQLw
RE: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
Heading back to the OP topic, lubrication and reduction in insertion force (given presumptively clean contacts), I've read good things about NyoGel 760G Dielectric Synthetic Grease. "Used for lubrication and protection of electrical contacts." Safety sheet: https://www.nyelubricants.com/datasheet/SDS_US_English_NYOGEL+760G.pdf -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Hunter via cctalk Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 11:13 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication What is the best type of lubricant for Omnibus backplanes? It can be a struggle to insert and remove PDP-8/e boards into the Omnibus. There is a risk of damage to the brittle bakelite connector housings on the Omnibus PCB. Traditional contact sprays should work but have two problems: 1) they remain wet and over time will attract and retain dust 2) the solvent and lubricant *may* weaken or attack the bakelite There are some PTFE (Teflon) based lubricant sprays which create a dry film. Would this type of spray work? Any suggestions on what I could use that reduces the strain on the Omnibus and the PCBs during insertion/removal without creating new problems? Thanks and best regards Tom Hunter
Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
We used to use DC #4. As an example, I had a ZX81. I added a RAM pack and had to be real careful about wiggling or moving the AX81. I put DC #4 on the pins. One could drop the computer with the RAM attached and it wouldn't lose a bit. I don't like deox as it has chemical actions that continue over time. DC #4 is totally inactive, although, it does leave a film of the filler over years after the silicon oil evaporates but is not that hard to clean. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Lyle Bickley via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 3:43 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: W2HX Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication I've been successfully using Deoxit and related products for many years, after I learned of them from government projects where I was a consultant. In a specific case: My PDP-8/E has 32K of core memory in four banks (original DEC). Several years ago, it developed random memory errors. I did all the usual things - made sure the OTT connectors and edge connectors were clean, that there was no observable "dirt" in the back-plane, etc. I reinstalled the memory - and it worked - for a while. Then the random error returned. Not often - but often enough to be irritating. I then used (sparingly) "ProGold" (now Deoxit Gold) on all the edge connectors. After re-installation, the memory was "perfect" (no diagnostic errors). Now some ten years later, I've never once experienced another memory error on my PDP-8/E. That was enough to convince me empirically that the product worked as advertised. Ever since that experience I've used Deoxit Gold on many pieces of test equipment and vintage computer gear and have never experienced anything but good results. Cheers, Lyle -- On Tue, 11 May 2021 18:23:53 + W2HX via cctalk wrote: > Very interesting. In probably 30 years I've been repairing equipment and > among the dozen or so electronics forums I belong to, you may be the first > person I've run across to throw some shade on that product. I've never heard > any concerns or warnings about it. And there are some rather reputable > companies using it. Including HP, GE, Honeywell, Tektronix, etc. I feel I'm > in good enough company with those folks to continue using it. > > https://caig.com/all-testimonials/ > > But please share your experience with it so others can form their opinions. > Eugene > > > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Al Kossow via > cctalk Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 1:12 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication > > > > I would suggest Caig > > I would suggest researching and understanding what their snake oil does > before using any Caig product. > > -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West https://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
On Tue, 11 May 2021, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: https://www.hagensieker.com/wordpress/2018/06/18/deoxit-what-is-it-what-isnt-it/ and Ben synthesizes some corrosion inhibitor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpRrP3sqQLw OK, so chemically, it's mostly lighter fluid, which does work well for such things. (-: But, surely, any good alchemist could come up with a spray that would turn lead solder into gold. And liberally spraying that through the vent slots and speaker grill of my childhood portable record player should make it sound as good as I remember it sounding when I was 8 years old. Just using a gold power cord wasn't enough. And WD-40 also wasn't enough. "Witchdoctor", "Purple People Eater", "Nash Rambler", "You Ain't Nothin' But A Hounddog" deserve the best sound quality possible! :-)
Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
I've been successfully using Deoxit and related products for many years, after I learned of them from government projects where I was a consultant. In a specific case: My PDP-8/E has 32K of core memory in four banks (original DEC). Several years ago, it developed random memory errors. I did all the usual things - made sure the OTT connectors and edge connectors were clean, that there was no observable "dirt" in the back-plane, etc. I reinstalled the memory - and it worked - for a while. Then the random error returned. Not often - but often enough to be irritating. I then used (sparingly) "ProGold" (now Deoxit Gold) on all the edge connectors. After re-installation, the memory was "perfect" (no diagnostic errors). Now some ten years later, I've never once experienced another memory error on my PDP-8/E. That was enough to convince me empirically that the product worked as advertised. Ever since that experience I've used Deoxit Gold on many pieces of test equipment and vintage computer gear and have never experienced anything but good results. Cheers, Lyle -- On Tue, 11 May 2021 18:23:53 + W2HX via cctalk wrote: > Very interesting. In probably 30 years I've been repairing equipment and > among the dozen or so electronics forums I belong to, you may be the first > person I've run across to throw some shade on that product. I've never heard > any concerns or warnings about it. And there are some rather reputable > companies using it. Including HP, GE, Honeywell, Tektronix, etc. I feel I'm > in good enough company with those folks to continue using it. > > https://caig.com/all-testimonials/ > > But please share your experience with it so others can form their opinions. > Eugene > > > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Al Kossow via > cctalk Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 1:12 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication > > > > I would suggest Caig > > I would suggest researching and understanding what their snake oil does > before using any Caig product. > > -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West https://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
On 5/11/21 11:23 AM, W2HX wrote: In probably 30 years I've been repairing equipment and among the dozen or so electronics forums I belong to, you may be the first person I've run across to throw some shade on that product. https://www.hagensieker.com/wordpress/2018/06/18/deoxit-what-is-it-what-isnt-it/ and Ben synthesizes some corrosion inhibitor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpRrP3sqQLw
RE: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
Very interesting. In probably 30 years I've been repairing equipment and among the dozen or so electronics forums I belong to, you may be the first person I've run across to throw some shade on that product. I've never heard any concerns or warnings about it. And there are some rather reputable companies using it. Including HP, GE, Honeywell, Tektronix, etc. I feel I'm in good enough company with those folks to continue using it. https://caig.com/all-testimonials/ But please share your experience with it so others can form their opinions. Eugene -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Al Kossow via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 1:12 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication > I would suggest Caig I would suggest researching and understanding what their snake oil does before using any Caig product.
Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
I would suggest Caig I would suggest researching and understanding what their snake oil does before using any Caig product.
Re: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
If the contacts are gold then I would suggest Caig ProGold followed by Caig Shield S5. Use sparingly as it’s highly conductive and may lead to some strange results from spraying it too freely. You might also consider one of Caig’s Non-Conductive Buss Lubricants. Don Resor Sent from someone's iPhone > On May 11, 2021, at 7:38 AM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: > > I would use caig deoxit. They have a version that has lubrication > properties. I think it is the "S" series. > Eugene > > > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Tom Hunter via > cctalk > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 11:14 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication > > What is the best type of lubricant for Omnibus backplanes? > It can be a struggle to insert and remove PDP-8/e boards into the Omnibus. > There is a risk of damage to the brittle bakelite connector housings on the > Omnibus PCB. > Traditional contact sprays should work but have two problems: > > 1) they remain wet and over time will attract and retain dust > 2) the solvent and lubricant *may* weaken or attack the bakelite > > There are some PTFE (Teflon) based lubricant sprays which create a dry film. > Would this type of spray work? > > Any suggestions on what I could use that reduces the strain on the Omnibus > and the PCBs during insertion/removal without creating new problems? > > Thanks and best regards > Tom Hunter >
RE: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication
I would use caig deoxit. They have a version that has lubrication properties. I think it is the "S" series. Eugene -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Tom Hunter via cctalk Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 11:14 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: DEC PDP-8/e Omnibus backplane lubrication What is the best type of lubricant for Omnibus backplanes? It can be a struggle to insert and remove PDP-8/e boards into the Omnibus. There is a risk of damage to the brittle bakelite connector housings on the Omnibus PCB. Traditional contact sprays should work but have two problems: 1) they remain wet and over time will attract and retain dust 2) the solvent and lubricant *may* weaken or attack the bakelite There are some PTFE (Teflon) based lubricant sprays which create a dry film. Would this type of spray work? Any suggestions on what I could use that reduces the strain on the Omnibus and the PCBs during insertion/removal without creating new problems? Thanks and best regards Tom Hunter
