Re: Teletype 43

[Ed via cctalk]

We need to  find a source of the pin feed  paper  for  the  43!  Also  a 
great thing  to round out the display  would be to have the  aux.  tape reader 
punch that was marketed   for it-  non working is  ok visually  - working 
would be  a  wonderful thing!
 
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 5/24/2017 8:26:28 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

On Tue,  May 23, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk  
 wrote:

> On 5/23/2017 1:07 AM,  dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> You probably need a null modem  cable.
>>
> I had one (and used it), but not all null modem  cables are evidently the
> same :-)  I soldered up a loopback as  you suggested, and the unit dropped
> into DATA MODE on startup.  I  then played with the signals.  The unit
> really does want DCD to  be active, as just doing CTS/RTS, DTR/DSR, and
> RX/TX did not do the  trick.  Evidently, my null modem cable I had tested
> with  previously does not connect DCD. Swapped out for a null modem 
adapter
>  (from our old now deceased friend Radio Shack) and the unit works with  a
> new Dell M4800 laptop (so "newer" style +-10V RS232 levels must be  OK.
>

The minimum legit voltage swing for RS-232 is supposed to  be plus and minus
5 volts and the
maximum allowed voltage swing is plus  and minus 25 volts.  The problems
occur when gear didn't
bother to  do the negative swing to minus 5 volts.  Plus and Minus 10 volts
is  more than adequate.


The printer ribbon has less life left in it  than I anticipated, but a list
> member is helping me, so it should be  good to go after a deep cleaning 
and
> a light oiling.  I did  notice the printhead starts to stutter at times on
> long lines, but I  *think* it's a function of the damage to the ribbon, so
> we'll  troubleshoot that only if it continues after ribbon fixes.
>

The  ribbon on my 43 is a reinking type.  The ribbon loop is maybe  18
inches?  I have a new in bag
ribbon which I am sure is also  dried out.  I used a drop of thin oil on the
reinking roller the last  time
I messed with it and that seemed to work.  You probably want to  use
something that will lubricate
because the pins on the dot matrix  print heads do need that to keep them
from rusting and  wearing
out.

The "stutter" you mention is normal.  The printer  electronics buffers a few
characters during the slow
carriage return and  prints slightly faster than 30cps so when a new line is
started it goes at  full speed
until the buffer is empty at which point it goes into the  stutter mode.
This eliminated the need to send
nulls after a carriage  return that was necessary on the earlier purely
mechanical  printers.

-- 
Doug Ingraham
PDP-8 SN  1175

Re: Teletype 43

[Jason Howe via cctalk]

I'm in Seattle and am very tempted by this

--Jason


On 05/22/2017 11:04 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:

If someone in the Pacific NW would like to have one, I'm in Portland and go
to Seattle from time to time.

Would like to at least see of it can find a home

https://goo.gl/photos/e2J5vHDGB6UtVFS49

The tractor feed belts have gone to plasticizer heaven



On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention last
weekend, and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea
market (on the ground, no less) for free, and so I decided I needed it in
my life.

I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's essentially a
little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear the
stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33.  I got home
last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode.  Docs
claim it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my PC to
it yet), though the ribbon has seen better days.  I used a bit of WD-40 to
free up the ink, and so things are legible now.

Not sure I need help yet (did not do much debugging yet on rs232), but I
see the ribbons are no longer available. Thus, I am wondering if anyone has
a spare one for it, or knows of someone who can restore this ribbon (looks
like it needs a new polyester ribbon and the internal foam roller looks
like it will fall apart if I try to rinse it out and re-ink it)

I know it's a long shot to ask, but I figure there was no harm in
inquiring, and I believe making a home for a model 43 is not entirely
without value. :-)

Jim

--
Jim Brain
br...@jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com

Re: Teletype 43

[Jason Howe via cctalk]

No eye rolling here.  I'd have picked it up too!

I would love to get my hands on hard-copy terminal.

(Still kicking myself for not grabbing a free DecWriter III several 
years ago).


--Jason



On 05/22/2017 10:44 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention 
last weekend, and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the 
flea market (on the ground, no less) for free, and so I decided I 
needed it in my life.


I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's essentially 
a little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear 
the stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33.  I 
got home last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local 
mode.  Docs claim it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax 
anything from my PC to it yet), though the ribbon has seen better 
days.  I used a bit of WD-40 to free up the ink, and so things are 
legible now.


Not sure I need help yet (did not do much debugging yet on rs232), but 
I see the ribbons are no longer available. Thus, I am wondering if 
anyone has a spare one for it, or knows of someone who can restore 
this ribbon (looks like it needs a new polyester ribbon and the 
internal foam roller looks like it will fall apart if I try to rinse 
it out and re-ink it)


I know it's a long shot to ask, but I figure there was no harm in 
inquiring, and I believe making a home for a model 43 is not entirely 
without value. :-)


Jim

Re: Teletype 43

[Doug Ingraham via cctalk]

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk  wrote:

> On 5/23/2017 1:07 AM, dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> You probably need a null modem cable.
>>
> I had one (and used it), but not all null modem cables are evidently the
> same :-)  I soldered up a loopback as you suggested, and the unit dropped
> into DATA MODE on startup.  I then played with the signals.  The unit
> really does want DCD to be active, as just doing CTS/RTS, DTR/DSR, and
> RX/TX did not do the trick.  Evidently, my null modem cable I had tested
> with previously does not connect DCD. Swapped out for a null modem adapter
> (from our old now deceased friend Radio Shack) and the unit works with a
> new Dell M4800 laptop (so "newer" style +-10V RS232 levels must be OK.
>

The minimum legit voltage swing for RS-232 is supposed to be plus and minus
5 volts and the
maximum allowed voltage swing is plus and minus 25 volts.  The problems
occur when gear didn't
bother to do the negative swing to minus 5 volts.  Plus and Minus 10 volts
is more than adequate.


The printer ribbon has less life left in it than I anticipated, but a list
> member is helping me, so it should be good to go after a deep cleaning and
> a light oiling.  I did notice the printhead starts to stutter at times on
> long lines, but I *think* it's a function of the damage to the ribbon, so
> we'll troubleshoot that only if it continues after ribbon fixes.
>

The ribbon on my 43 is a reinking type.  The ribbon loop is maybe 18
inches?  I have a new in bag
ribbon which I am sure is also dried out.  I used a drop of thin oil on the
reinking roller the last time
I messed with it and that seemed to work.  You probably want to use
something that will lubricate
because the pins on the dot matrix print heads do need that to keep them
from rusting and wearing
out.

The "stutter" you mention is normal.  The printer electronics buffers a few
characters during the slow
carriage return and prints slightly faster than 30cps so when a new line is
started it goes at full speed
until the buffer is empty at which point it goes into the stutter mode.
This eliminated the need to send
nulls after a carriage return that was necessary on the earlier purely
mechanical printers.

-- 
Doug Ingraham
PDP-8 SN 1175

Re: Teletype 43

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On May 23, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 5/23/2017 1:07 AM, dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote:
>> You probably need a null modem cable.
> I had one (and used it), but not all null modem cables are evidently the same 
> :-)  I soldered up a loopback as you suggested, and the unit dropped into 
> DATA MODE on startup.  I then played with the signals.  The unit really does 
> want DCD to be active, as just doing CTS/RTS, DTR/DSR, and RX/TX did not do 
> the trick.  Evidently, my null modem cable I had tested with previously does 
> not connect DCD. Swapped out for a null modem adapter (from our old now 
> deceased friend Radio Shack) and the unit works with a new Dell M4800 laptop 
> (so "newer" style +-10V RS232 levels must be OK.

Great to hear of the progress.

From what I remember and from what the Wikipedia article mentions, +- 10 volt 
is certainly fine and RS232-compliant.  I remember PCs that used TTL levels (0 
and +5 or so) which clearly is not valid (not to mention that TTL level ICs are 
likely to fry when confronted with valid RS232 inputs such as -15 volts).

Your null modem experience makes sense.  There are a bunch of different signals 
whose meaning is often not clear, and older equipment is more likely to want 
all of them.  CTS is the main one, but while you might argue that DCD (carrier 
detect) shouldn't be required, it isn't too surprising that a terminal might 
look for it.

paul

Re: Teletype 43

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

On 23.05.2017 06:57, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:

Do you have a "traffic light"?  I find them invaluable for diagnosing
handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.

Yep.  constant low on TX.

Oh, I wrote my message before reading on in the thread... Sorry.
Good that you have one!

Re: Teletype 43

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

On 23.05.2017 03:41, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:


No eye-rolling here.  Nice find!
Here the same. Perhaps not the most wanted device - but... better have 
than need...



I got home last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode.  
Docs claim
it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my PC to it yet),


Do you have a "traffic light"?  I find them invaluable for diagnosing
handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.
The first thing I thought of. Everybody needs one. And 25/9-Adapters in 
both directions, null modem cables and gender changers - then you get 
everything running. Ok, add some sub d connectors to make weirdly wired 
adapters if nothing helps.



Does your PC have real RS232?  A lot of "RS232" ports are serial ports, but not 
with correct
RS232 levels.  If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work with an actual RS232 
port.
I don't think that it's reasonable to check this problem first. Of 
course, can happen. But more likely you have a null modem problem.


Keep in mind that "TXD" is the output of a DTE (Data Terminal 
Equipment). TXD is therefore the input (!) of a DCE (Data Communication 
Equipment aka modem).
PC RS-232 ports send on TXD because they consider themselves to be a 
terminal. And a teletype IS actually a terminal. So you would need to at 
least cross wires 2 and 3 (RXD/TXD) using a Null modem. If you want 
hardware handshake, the same applies to DTR and CTS.


Good luck :-)

Re: Teletype 43

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 5/23/2017 11:37 PM, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote:

Since
those are not easy to dig up now, what options are there?  Also,
because there's often plenty of pigment, what oil/solvents are good to
wrest some of that pigment back out of a dried ribbon?

That is a question I'd like to determine.  Google was little help outside of 
calls
to try WD40.
We WD40'ed ASR33 ribbons at the Computer Mini lab @UMR till the material 
was white and we were printing with residual WD40 on the fabric.  On a 
rebuild of the machine in question, we drained off 1/2 pint of oil from 
the felt in the bottom, from both the ink operation, and just making it go.


Not sure why they didn't buy a new ribbon, but once it was rebuilt after 
4 years of use, it printed fantastic quality print with a new ribbon.


I don't know the formulas for ink but it was persuaded to continue 
printing with cloth / silk ribbons I've seen then and since.


thanks
Jim

RE: Teletype 43

[Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Brain
> via cctalk
> Sent: 24 May 2017 06:14
> To: Ethan Dicks <ethan.di...@gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and
> Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Teletype 43
> 
> On 5/23/2017 10:45 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> > Back in the day, there was a re-inking product, the Mac Inker.
> I have a Re-inker, though not exactly like the Mac Inker, but the Model
> 43 has a built in "Mac Inker"-like inking system.  It's a small loop of ribbon
> with a large felt round ink pad in the cartridge.  So, if I can get some ink 
> into
> the felt, I should be OK.
> > Since
> > those are not easy to dig up now, what options are there?  Also,
> > because there's often plenty of pigment, what oil/solvents are good to
> > wrest some of that pigment back out of a dried ribbon?
> That is a question I'd like to determine.  Google was little help outside of 
> calls
> to try WD40.
> 
> Jim

Some have used stamp pad ink. Some stamp pad ink doesn't dry out..

Dave

Re: Teletype 43

[Jim Brain via cctalk]

On 5/23/2017 10:45 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:

Back in the day, there was a re-inking product, the Mac Inker.
I have a Re-inker, though not exactly like the Mac Inker, but the Model 
43 has a built in "Mac Inker"-like inking system.  It's a small loop of 
ribbon with a large felt round ink pad in the cartridge.  So, if I can 
get some ink into the felt, I should be OK.

Since
those are not easy to dig up now, what options are there?  Also,
because there's often plenty of pigment, what oil/solvents are good to
wrest some of that pigment back out of a dried ribbon?
That is a question I'd like to determine.  Google was little help 
outside of calls to try WD40.


Jim

Re: Teletype 43

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk
 wrote:
> On 5/23/2017 1:07 AM, dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> You probably need a null modem cable.
>
> I had one (and used it), but not all null modem cables are evidently the
> same :-)  I soldered up a loopback as you suggested, and the unit dropped
> into DATA MODE on startup.

Superb!

> The printer ribbon has less life left in it than I anticipated, but a list
> member is helping me, so it should be good to go after a deep cleaning and a
> light oiling.

Back in the day, there was a re-inking product, the Mac Inker.  Since
those are not easy to dig up now, what options are there?  Also,
because there's often plenty of pigment, what oil/solvents are good to
wrest some of that pigment back out of a dried ribbon?

-ethan

Re: Teletype 43

[Jim Brain via cctalk]

On 5/23/2017 8:49 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote:


Not a positive sign.
Dodged a bullet.  Model 43 needs RTS, DTR, AND DCD to be active to drop 
into DATA MODE.  Initial null modem cable does not connect DCD to DTR.  
Small fail.  I'll have to mark that cable.


Now, to decide how best to present this unit at VCF-MW and/OR TANDY 
Assembly.


Jim

Re: Teletype 43

[Jim Brain via cctalk]

On 5/23/2017 1:07 AM, dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote:

You probably need a null modem cable.
I had one (and used it), but not all null modem cables are evidently the 
same :-)  I soldered up a loopback as you suggested, and the unit 
dropped into DATA MODE on startup.  I then played with the signals.  The 
unit really does want DCD to be active, as just doing CTS/RTS, DTR/DSR, 
and RX/TX did not do the trick.  Evidently, my null modem cable I had 
tested with previously does not connect DCD. Swapped out for a null 
modem adapter (from our old now deceased friend Radio Shack) and the 
unit works with a new Dell M4800 laptop (so "newer" style +-10V RS232 
levels must be OK.


I appreciate the brain dusting.  I should have known to try that, as I 
spent years doing serial stuff and wrote tcpser, the Hayes Modem 
emulator package for Linux/Windows.  I even have a Telnet BBS cable 
named after me.  Sigh...


The printer ribbon has less life left in it than I anticipated, but a 
list member is helping me, so it should be good to go after a deep 
cleaning and a light oiling.  I did notice the printhead starts to 
stutter at times on long lines, but I *think* it's a function of the 
damage to the ribbon, so we'll troubleshoot that only if it continues 
after ribbon fixes.


The broomhandle looks to be working fine, but if there's a spare paper 
roll pin and/or a platen knob out there looking for a home, let me know.


Jim

Re: Teletype 43

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Jim Brain  wrote:
> On 5/22/2017 8:41 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
>> Do you have a "traffic light"?  I find them invaluable for diagnosing
>> handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.
>
> Yep.  constant low on TX.

Not a positive sign.

> It's entirely possible, but I put a scope on the TX line, and I see no
> activity at all with the unit in DATA or TERM READY mode.  The DATA LED
> blinks, so I think I need to signal the Model 43 that it is "connected".

If it needs hardware handshaking to work, there are a number of
diagrams out there for how to wire the pins together to make the UART
think it's always OK to send.

One example is:

"Connect pins 8 and 7 (i.e. CTS drives RTS)
Connect pins 1, 4, 6 This should maintain the DTR line in the correct
state, by connecting it to DCD and DSR"

It depends on DCE vs DTE and how the vendor wired up their port, but
it's going to be along those lines.

> As has been suggested, I joined GreenKeys and asked if someone has a similar
> setup that works, so I can replicate.

Handy.

> Worst case is that the driver board has issues, which at least will narrow
> down my search.

Indeed.  It could be the drivers/receivers at the edge of the circuit.
I've had to replace them on occasion when restoring a new-to-me
device.

With a traffic light and an o-scope, it should be easy enough to see
into things - could be cabling, could be a bad IC.  Not seeing TxD
wiggle when you send chars is a pretty fundamental issue.

-ethan

RE: Teletype 43

[Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk]

You probably need a null modem cable. As a test try linking 4+5 (rts/cts) and 
6+8+20 (dsr/cd/dtr) on the tty plug/socket. (25 way pins)
Then when the terminal brings dtr up (data terminal ready) it also brings up 
dsr (data set ready) and cd (carrier detect) so it looks like the modem is 
connected.
Same way when it uses rts (request to send) it also enables cts (clear to send) 
so the modem has given permission to send data..

Dave
G4ugm

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Brain
> via cctalk
> Sent: 23 May 2017 05:58
> To: Ethan Dicks <ethan.di...@gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and
> Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>; Paul Koning
> <paulkon...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Teletype 43
> 
> On 5/22/2017 8:41 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > Do you have a "traffic light"?  I find them invaluable for diagnosing
> > handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.
> Yep.  constant low on TX.
> >
> > What worked was a serial port on a desktop.  The first try.
> It's entirely possible, but I put a scope on the TX line, and I see no 
> activity at
> all with the unit in DATA or TERM READY mode.  The DATA LED blinks, so I
> think I need to signal the Model 43 that it is "connected".
> 
> As has been suggested, I joined GreenKeys and asked if someone has a
> similar setup that works, so I can replicate.
> 
> Worst case is that the driver board has issues, which at least will narrow
> down my search.
> 
> Jim

Re: Teletype 43

[Jim Brain via cctalk]

On 5/22/2017 8:41 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:


Do you have a "traffic light"?  I find them invaluable for diagnosing
handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.

Yep.  constant low on TX.


What worked was a serial port on a desktop.  The first try.
It's entirely possible, but I put a scope on the TX line, and I see no 
activity at all with the unit in DATA or TERM READY mode.  The DATA LED 
blinks, so I think I need to signal the Model 43 that it is "connected".


As has been suggested, I joined GreenKeys and asked if someone has a 
similar setup that works, so I can replicate.


Worst case is that the driver board has issues, which at least will 
narrow down my search.


Jim

Re: Teletype 43

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk
 wrote:
>> On May 22, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention last 
>> weekend,
>> and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea market (on the 
>> ground, no less)
>> for free, and so I decided I needed it in my life.

No eye-rolling here.  Nice find!

>> I got home last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode. 
>>  Docs claim
>> it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my PC to it yet),

Do you have a "traffic light"?  I find them invaluable for diagnosing
handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.

> Does your PC have real RS232?  A lot of "RS232" ports are serial ports, but 
> not with correct
> RS232 levels.  If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work with an actual 
> RS232 port.

If you are testing from a laptop, this could be it.  Some years back,
I joined our local hackerspace, in part, to get some life out of a
Bridgeport Series II (driven by an M7264 KD11-F processor board) and
after building my own round Tyco serial cable because the former owner
of the Bridgeport was, in his own estimation, no good at soldering,
was initially unable to get any commands to work from my Linux laptop
from a "real" serial port or from a USB dongle.

What worked was a serial port on a desktop.  The first try.

I do know, from examining the boards when we scrapped the Bridgeport,
it uses the ancient and venerable 1488/1489 pair.  I've seen those
work with "modern" serial ports, so I'm unsure why this device had
problems, but it did.  No dongle or laptop tested was functional with
the Bridgeport.

-ethan

Re: Teletype 43

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Does your PC have real RS232?  A lot of "RS232" ports are serial ports, 
The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told me 
that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by 
definition" completely "standard" for RS-232, since "RS-232" stood for 
"RADIO SHACK 232".

On Mon, 22 May 2017, geneb wrote:
My jaw would not only have dropped at that statement, but it likely would've 
broken the hinge as well.
It reminds me of the time a cow-orker went to the local Radio Shack looking 
for a GasFET and was told he'd have better luck at an auto parts store.


If he had been joking, or poking fun at the way Radio Shack sometimes did 
things differently, then it would have been pretty good.
But, he was serious, and simply passing on something he had been taught at 
one of their management session.

Re: Teletype 43

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 05/22/2017 10:44 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:

> I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's
> essentially a little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I
> will wear the stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical
> model 33.  I got home last night, and the unit fires up and works
> (well, in local mode. Docs claim it is rs232 out the back, but could
> not coax anything from my PC to it yet), though the ribbon has seen
> better days.  I used a bit of WD-40 to free up the ink, and so things
> are legible now.

It's still pretty significant. In particular, I was a fan of the
Dataspeed Model 40 line pritners.  A tractor-feed band line printer,
that, IIRC, could run at about 150 LPM, but fit on a tabletop.

--Chuck

RE: Teletype 43

[Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk]

Not exactly computer related, but many years ago I was looking for a new slide 
projector. 
I went into Dixons, at the time a UK electronics and photo store.
A young man who said he knew everything about projectors said he would show me 
the device..
After asking a couple of questions, and receiving replies I knew from reading 
around, were wrong,
I asked him how easy it was to change the bulb. After 15 enjoyable minutes 
during which he removed every component, apart from the bulb, (well I enjoyed 
them, but struggled to keep a straight face)
I said thank you, it was obviously too hard for me, leaving him to re-assemble 
the thing. Not sure how long he took, I didn't wait to find out..
I then bought the same model from another store (Boots for the UK readers) who 
were IMHO equally incompetent, but they offered a free 5-Year guarantee...
.. My wife said I was being cruel, and I said, no, all he had to do was admit 
he didn't know how to change the bulb and find some one who could...

Dave
G4UGM

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Norman
> Jaffe via cctalk
> Sent: 22 May 2017 21:04
> To: cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Teletype 43
> 
> I had an employee of an electronics store tell me that the IBM modem
> software on the 5.25" floppy for Windows would work fine on my
> Macintosh... in the days long before Macintosh systems used non-Motorola
> processors.
> That was a fun 'discussion'.
> 
> From: "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> To: "Fred Cisin" <ci...@xenosoft.com>, "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 12:57:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Teletype 43
> 
> On Mon, 22 May 2017, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 22 May 2017, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> >> Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of "RS232" ports are serial
> >> ports, but not with correct RS232 levels. If you have "TTL RS232"
> >> [sic] it won't work with an actual RS232 port.
> >
> > The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told
> > me that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by
> definition"
> > completely "standard" for RS-232, since "RS-232" stood for "RADIO SHACK
> 232".
> >
> My jaw would not only have dropped at that statement, but it likely would've
> broken the hinge as well.
> 
> It reminds me of the time a cow-orker went to the local Radio Shack looking
> for a GasFET and was told he'd have better luck at an auto parts store.
> 
> g.
> 
> 
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
> 
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value
> database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Teletype 43

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

If someone in the Pacific NW would like to have one, I'm in Portland and go
to Seattle from time to time.

Would like to at least see of it can find a home

https://goo.gl/photos/e2J5vHDGB6UtVFS49

The tractor feed belts have gone to plasticizer heaven



On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention last
> weekend, and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea
> market (on the ground, no less) for free, and so I decided I needed it in
> my life.
>
> I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's essentially a
> little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear the
> stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33.  I got home
> last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode.  Docs
> claim it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my PC to
> it yet), though the ribbon has seen better days.  I used a bit of WD-40 to
> free up the ink, and so things are legible now.
>
> Not sure I need help yet (did not do much debugging yet on rs232), but I
> see the ribbons are no longer available. Thus, I am wondering if anyone has
> a spare one for it, or knows of someone who can restore this ribbon (looks
> like it needs a new polyester ribbon and the internal foam roller looks
> like it will fall apart if I try to rinse it out and re-ink it)
>
> I know it's a long shot to ask, but I figure there was no harm in
> inquiring, and I believe making a home for a model 43 is not entirely
> without value. :-)
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Jim Brain
> br...@jbrain.com
> www.jbrain.com
>
>
>

Re: Teletype 43

[Norman Jaffe via cctalk]

I had an employee of an electronics store tell me that the IBM modem software 
on the 5.25" floppy for Windows would work fine on my Macintosh... in the days 
long before Macintosh systems used non-Motorola processors. 
That was a fun 'discussion'. 

From: "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
To: "Fred Cisin" <ci...@xenosoft.com>, "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 12:57:52 PM 
Subject: Re: Teletype 43 

On Mon, 22 May 2017, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: 

> On Mon, 22 May 2017, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: 
>> Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of "RS232" ports are serial ports, but 
>> not with correct RS232 levels. If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work 
>> with an actual RS232 port. 
> 
> The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told me 
> that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by definition" 
> completely "standard" for RS-232, since "RS-232" stood for "RADIO SHACK 232". 
> 
My jaw would not only have dropped at that statement, but it likely 
would've broken the hinge as well. 

It reminds me of the time a cow-orker went to the local Radio Shack 
looking for a GasFET and was told he'd have better luck at an auto parts 
store. 

g. 


-- 
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. 
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. 
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. 

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment 
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. 
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! 

Re: Teletype 43

[geneb via cctalk]

On Mon, 22 May 2017, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:


On Mon, 22 May 2017, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
Does your PC have real RS232?  A lot of "RS232" ports are serial ports, but 
not with correct RS232 levels.  If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work 
with an actual RS232 port.


The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told me 
that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by definition" 
completely "standard" for RS-232, since "RS-232" stood for "RADIO SHACK 232".


My jaw would not only have dropped at that statement, but it likely 
would've broken the hinge as well.


It reminds me of the time a cow-orker went to the local Radio Shack 
looking for a GasFET and was told he'd have better luck at an auto parts 
store.


g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: Teletype 43

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Mon, 22 May 2017, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
Does your PC have real RS232?  A lot of "RS232" ports are serial ports, 
but not with correct RS232 levels.  If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it 
won't work with an actual RS232 port.


The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told me 
that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by 
definition" completely "standard" for RS-232, since "RS-232" stood for 
"RADIO SHACK 232".

Re: Teletype 43

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On May 22, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention last 
> weekend, and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea market 
> (on the ground, no less) for free, and so I decided I needed it in my life.
> 
> I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's essentially a 
> little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear the stigma 
> of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33.  I got home last 
> night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode.  Docs claim it 
> is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my PC to it yet), 

Does your PC have real RS232?  A lot of "RS232" ports are serial ports, but not 
with correct RS232 levels.  If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work with an 
actual RS232 port.

It may also be RS232-like, as in bipolar signals, but not high enough output 
voltages to be compliant.  I think modern RS232 receivers tend to accept lower 
signal levels than the minimum permitted by the spec; older ones may be less 
forgiving.

Finally, check your DTE vs. DCE orientation; you may need a null modem.  (Or 
you may not want a null modem.)

paul

Teletype 43

[Jim Brain via cctalk]

OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention last 
weekend, and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea 
market (on the ground, no less) for free, and so I decided I needed it 
in my life.


I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's essentially a 
little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear the 
stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33.  I got 
home last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode.  
Docs claim it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my 
PC to it yet), though the ribbon has seen better days.  I used a bit of 
WD-40 to free up the ink, and so things are legible now.


Not sure I need help yet (did not do much debugging yet on rs232), but I 
see the ribbons are no longer available. Thus, I am wondering if anyone 
has a spare one for it, or knows of someone who can restore this ribbon 
(looks like it needs a new polyester ribbon and the internal foam roller 
looks like it will fall apart if I try to rinse it out and re-ink it)


I know it's a long shot to ask, but I figure there was no harm in 
inquiring, and I believe making a home for a model 43 is not entirely 
without value. :-)


Jim

--
Jim Brain
br...@jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com