Re: Women of computing
On Sun, 2021-12-05 at 12:00 -0600, Brie wrote: > > He may as well have just come out and said, ?It triggers me and I > don?t like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of > computer history.? > > ? Brie Sorry to go off topic, but I have friends and family who are veterans or otherwise have had horrible experiences. They get triggered. What this sentence is describing is someone getting mildly annoyed.
Re: Women of Computing
On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Mike Begley via cctalk wrote: > Yeah, "woke" is one of those terms, like "PC", that immediately signals > that the speaker can immediately be dismissed out of hand as having nothing > worthwhile to say. > Especially in the context of historic computing. We aren't stopping anyone from talking about it, just not here. We don't talk about motorcycle repair, sourdough starters, quidditch, or the evolution of the mantis shrimp here either. Warner
RE: Women of Computing
Ugggh, as soon as I saw this conversation I new it was going to be a race to the bottom. Actually, it was far less worse than I expected, so progress, perhaps? I've been frustrated by the lack of women in the industry, because there's no rational reason for it and it feels like we're wasting half our talent pool. I've known too many women who were effectively chased out of the industry and the hobby because of creepy, insecure men and their enablers, and it's just infuriating. There's no reason for it, and I'm glad we're finally seeing pushback, role models and positive encouragement, and garbage behavior is increasingly less tolerated and called out. > Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are > trying to make moot. Great > way to make people people not take you seriously. > > He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like > having to acknowledge that > women exist in the field of computer history.” Yeah, "woke" is one of those terms, like "PC", that immediately signals that the speaker can immediately be dismissed out of hand as having nothing worthwhile to say. -mike
Re: Women of Computing
On Sun, 5 Dec 2021, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: This is a bad way to behave. Nobody should act like that. It violates Wheaton's Law, which is a basic principle of how to be a civilised human being. For those unfamiliar, Weaton's Law: "Don't be a dick." "OK, Boomer" is just a succinct and clear way of saying "you are an unpleasant old man and we do not need to listen to your useless hurtful opinions." More importantly, it's shorter to type. ;) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
RE: Women of Computing
On Sat, 4 Dec 2021, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: I accept that far less women than men work in computing. I believe however that this is large due to their own perception of the industry and their career choices. It's not "perception". It's the rampant sexual harassment, "dudebro" culture, etc. It takes a strong person to work in an industry that demonstratedly treats them like second class citizens. If you've got an issue with Lego promoting women in STEM fields, ya'll should probably go sit in the corner until you've come to grips with the fact that you've got a dramatic flaw in your perception of reality. Almost all the women I know would describe working in it as "sad" or "geeky" and several of them are married men who do work in IT. Five bucks says all or most of them were denigrated or humiliated in some fashion after showing an early interest in those things. If I were you, I'd go back to shouting at clouds and chasing kids off your lawn. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Re: Women of Computing
On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 8:57 AM Chris Long via cctalk wrote: > The fact I don’t think it is necessary for a Lego set specifically > endorsing the role of women in computing is unpleasant or mean spirited? > That's not what your initial response said, and you know it. You can backpedal all you want. Rather than starting an actual discussion of the merits of the project you replied flippantly, using the word "woke" to completely dismiss the project, with all the weight that word connotes. > > Get a life Liam. I simply expressed my view. > > Are we really at a state on this list where when someone posts mentioning > something, that anyone who expresses any alternative view is behaving > unacceptably? > Nope. You know this, too. > > Talk about snowflakes. > There you go again. - Josh > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Liam Proven via > cctalk > Sent: 05 December 2021 15:17 > To: Doc Shipley ; General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Women of Computing > > On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 16:09, Doc Shipley via cctalk > wrote: > > > > On 12/4/21 12:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > > > > > > OK, Boomer. > > > > > There's really no call to be nasty about it. > > > > To those of us who are baby boomers, that usage is extremely offensive. > > I suspect that was the plan. > > Chris Long's email was nasty, unpleasant and a mean-spirited and > unpleasant thing to say. The fact that they felt the need to say it on a > public forum indicates either that they do not care what other people feel, > or that they wanted to cause offence. > > When someone is so insensitive that they do not understand that their > words can hurt others, then sometimes, an effective way to show to them > that words can be hurtful and that they shouldn't say mean things, is to > say something that is hurtful to them. > > This can illustrate to people who do not normally care about others' > feelings that they do not like it when their own feelings are hurt. > > It is, sadly, a common attribute of a certain age group, especially of old > white straight men, to give little regard to others' feelings like this. > They typically consider a waste of time any kind of affirmative action that > helps, boosts, or engages with people who are not old, white, straight and > men. > > This is a bad way to behave. Nobody should act like that. It violates > Wheaton's Law, which is a basic principle of how to be a civilised human > being. > > "OK, Boomer" is just a succinct and clear way of saying "you are an > unpleasant old man and we do not need to listen to your useless hurtful > opinions." > > If that sounds like you, then my advice to you is not to complain about > it, but to engage with it, and learn how not to be such a person, and then > go and teach other such folk how to be better people. > > If it doesn't sound like you, then you should not be bothered by it. > > -- > Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven > UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) > 702-829-053 > >
RE: Women of Computing
Did not see what Liam even said. I tend to skip anything he posts. As what he says do not relate to what I am working on or are corrosive Guess I will have to check out the archive! Ed# Sent from the all new AOL app for Android On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 9:57 AM, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: The fact I don’t think it is necessary for a Lego set specifically endorsing the role of women in computing is unpleasant or mean spirited? Get a life Liam. I simply expressed my view. Are we really at a state on this list where when someone posts mentioning something, that anyone who expresses any alternative view is behaving unacceptably? Talk about snowflakes. -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Liam Proven via cctalk Sent: 05 December 2021 15:17 To: Doc Shipley ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Women of Computing On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 16:09, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: > > On 12/4/21 12:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > > > > OK, Boomer. > > > There's really no call to be nasty about it. > > To those of us who are baby boomers, that usage is extremely offensive. I suspect that was the plan. Chris Long's email was nasty, unpleasant and a mean-spirited and unpleasant thing to say. The fact that they felt the need to say it on a public forum indicates either that they do not care what other people feel, or that they wanted to cause offence. When someone is so insensitive that they do not understand that their words can hurt others, then sometimes, an effective way to show to them that words can be hurtful and that they shouldn't say mean things, is to say something that is hurtful to them. This can illustrate to people who do not normally care about others' feelings that they do not like it when their own feelings are hurt. It is, sadly, a common attribute of a certain age group, especially of old white straight men, to give little regard to others' feelings like this. They typically consider a waste of time any kind of affirmative action that helps, boosts, or engages with people who are not old, white, straight and men. This is a bad way to behave. Nobody should act like that. It violates Wheaton's Law, which is a basic principle of how to be a civilised human being. "OK, Boomer" is just a succinct and clear way of saying "you are an unpleasant old man and we do not need to listen to your useless hurtful opinions." If that sounds like you, then my advice to you is not to complain about it, but to engage with it, and learn how not to be such a person, and then go and teach other such folk how to be better people. If it doesn't sound like you, then you should not be bothered by it. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
Re: Women of Computing
On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 9:57 AM Chris Long via cctalk wrote: > Talk about snowflakes. > Can we please bring this whole tiresome political theater to an end? If you are replying and thinking of using phrases from the current culture war. Don't. They are off topic here. Please Just Don't. Warner
RE: Women of Computing
The fact I don’t think it is necessary for a Lego set specifically endorsing the role of women in computing is unpleasant or mean spirited? Get a life Liam. I simply expressed my view. Are we really at a state on this list where when someone posts mentioning something, that anyone who expresses any alternative view is behaving unacceptably? Talk about snowflakes. -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Liam Proven via cctalk Sent: 05 December 2021 15:17 To: Doc Shipley ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Women of Computing On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 16:09, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: > > On 12/4/21 12:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > > > > OK, Boomer. > > > There's really no call to be nasty about it. > > To those of us who are baby boomers, that usage is extremely offensive. I suspect that was the plan. Chris Long's email was nasty, unpleasant and a mean-spirited and unpleasant thing to say. The fact that they felt the need to say it on a public forum indicates either that they do not care what other people feel, or that they wanted to cause offence. When someone is so insensitive that they do not understand that their words can hurt others, then sometimes, an effective way to show to them that words can be hurtful and that they shouldn't say mean things, is to say something that is hurtful to them. This can illustrate to people who do not normally care about others' feelings that they do not like it when their own feelings are hurt. It is, sadly, a common attribute of a certain age group, especially of old white straight men, to give little regard to others' feelings like this. They typically consider a waste of time any kind of affirmative action that helps, boosts, or engages with people who are not old, white, straight and men. This is a bad way to behave. Nobody should act like that. It violates Wheaton's Law, which is a basic principle of how to be a civilised human being. "OK, Boomer" is just a succinct and clear way of saying "you are an unpleasant old man and we do not need to listen to your useless hurtful opinions." If that sounds like you, then my advice to you is not to complain about it, but to engage with it, and learn how not to be such a person, and then go and teach other such folk how to be better people. If it doesn't sound like you, then you should not be bothered by it. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
Re: Women of Computing
Can we please return to discussions of actual classic computers, before our long-suffering list host shuts the list down _again_ for this sort of argument, this time perhaps forever? Thank you. Noel
Re: Women of Computing
On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 16:09, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: > > On 12/4/21 12:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > > > > OK, Boomer. > > > There's really no call to be nasty about it. > > To those of us who are baby boomers, that usage is extremely offensive. I suspect that was the plan. Chris Long's email was nasty, unpleasant and a mean-spirited and unpleasant thing to say. The fact that they felt the need to say it on a public forum indicates either that they do not care what other people feel, or that they wanted to cause offence. When someone is so insensitive that they do not understand that their words can hurt others, then sometimes, an effective way to show to them that words can be hurtful and that they shouldn't say mean things, is to say something that is hurtful to them. This can illustrate to people who do not normally care about others' feelings that they do not like it when their own feelings are hurt. It is, sadly, a common attribute of a certain age group, especially of old white straight men, to give little regard to others' feelings like this. They typically consider a waste of time any kind of affirmative action that helps, boosts, or engages with people who are not old, white, straight and men. This is a bad way to behave. Nobody should act like that. It violates Wheaton's Law, which is a basic principle of how to be a civilised human being. "OK, Boomer" is just a succinct and clear way of saying "you are an unpleasant old man and we do not need to listen to your useless hurtful opinions." If that sounds like you, then my advice to you is not to complain about it, but to engage with it, and learn how not to be such a person, and then go and teach other such folk how to be better people. If it doesn't sound like you, then you should not be bothered by it. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
Re: Women of Computing
On 12/4/21 12:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: OK, Boomer. There's really no call to be nasty about it. To those of us who are baby boomers, that usage is extremely offensive. Doc
Re: Women of Computing
I actually created an account to support this but I think it already has enough votes to get it made. I ended up giving private feedback. I like vintage computing legos and I have a few of Chris McVeigh's sets before he went to work for LEGO. I would like to see these sets get made. These sets were designed and proposed by an individual and unless someone takes the time to do one for people like Babbage, Mauchly, Eckert, or Englebart then you won't see it. Someone designed one for Alan Turing, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. If you want to see ones for people who you admire, you need to make it or ask for it.
Re: Women of Computing
Yea Lego is finicky with lugs Mostly for access to the lug bulk though no? On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 5:53 p.m. Alan Perry via cctalk, < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I was just now catching up with my LEGO Ideas e-mail (I went through my > cctech mail first :) and see that the Women of Computing set was put > together and proposed by the same woman who did the Women of NASA set. > > > As far as my wife, she is active in two local LEGO user groups and was > the one of those club's liaison with LEGO (until last month when the > club lost its official club status with LEGO). Seeing LEGO this close is > sometimes not the best idea if one wants to remain an enthusiastic > supporter of the company. > > > On 12/4/21 3:29 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: > > Lego puts poly pocket to shame. I agree with urwife and thank her for her > > work lobbying lego plz keep it up itsthe truly universal toy of > everything > > > > On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 5:24 p.m. Alan Perry via cctalk, < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> LEGO is not doing this. This is part of the LEGO Ideas program, ideas > >> for LEGO sets submitted by the LEGO user community. Someone proposes a > >> set to the community and, if it gets 10,000 votes from the community, > >> LEGO will consider making an official set out of it. Other examples of > >> LEGO Ideas sets are the Saturn V rocket and ISS. > >> > >> > >> This set was likely inspired by another Ideas set that went through the > >> process and became an official set - > >> https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/women-of-nasa-21312 > >> > >> > >> LEGO itself has been a bit behind the curve on including female minifigs > >> in their sets. My wife is active in the AFOL (Adult Fans Of LEGO) > >> community. She has been lobbying LEGO for more female figures for much > >> of her life, partly because LEGO was considered a "boys'" toy when we > >> were growing up. (We were born at the beginning of Gen X FWIW.) > >> > >> > >> alan > >> > >> > >> On 12/4/21 12:09 PM, Brielle via cctalk wrote: > >>> See, if it had been presented like that, it would likely have not > >> elicited the same response. > >>> It’s sad, but I understand the reason why they are doing it. Lego has > >> always been a bit progressive - even going as far as in commercials that > >> girls can play with legos too. > >>> Unfortunately, the ones that throw the term ‘woke’ around like that > tend > >> to have pretty strong feelings about a “woman’s place in society”. > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>>> On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:55 PM, newsgro...@micromuseum.co.uk wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role > >> - and the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. > >>>> -Original Message- > >>>> From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via > >> cctalk > >>>> Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 > >>>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >>>> Subject: Re: Women of Computing > >>>> > >>>> Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point > you > >> are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you > >> seriously. > >>>> He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I > don’t > >> like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer > >> history.” > >>>> — Brie > >>>> > >>>>> On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk < > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >>>>> I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems > >> grossly misapplied in this instance. > >>>>> --Jason > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: > >>>>>> Great.not. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Why do we need woke Lego? >
Re: Women of Computing
I was just now catching up with my LEGO Ideas e-mail (I went through my cctech mail first :) and see that the Women of Computing set was put together and proposed by the same woman who did the Women of NASA set. As far as my wife, she is active in two local LEGO user groups and was the one of those club's liaison with LEGO (until last month when the club lost its official club status with LEGO). Seeing LEGO this close is sometimes not the best idea if one wants to remain an enthusiastic supporter of the company. On 12/4/21 3:29 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: Lego puts poly pocket to shame. I agree with urwife and thank her for her work lobbying lego plz keep it up itsthe truly universal toy of everything On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 5:24 p.m. Alan Perry via cctalk, < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: LEGO is not doing this. This is part of the LEGO Ideas program, ideas for LEGO sets submitted by the LEGO user community. Someone proposes a set to the community and, if it gets 10,000 votes from the community, LEGO will consider making an official set out of it. Other examples of LEGO Ideas sets are the Saturn V rocket and ISS. This set was likely inspired by another Ideas set that went through the process and became an official set - https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/women-of-nasa-21312 LEGO itself has been a bit behind the curve on including female minifigs in their sets. My wife is active in the AFOL (Adult Fans Of LEGO) community. She has been lobbying LEGO for more female figures for much of her life, partly because LEGO was considered a "boys'" toy when we were growing up. (We were born at the beginning of Gen X FWIW.) alan On 12/4/21 12:09 PM, Brielle via cctalk wrote: See, if it had been presented like that, it would likely have not elicited the same response. It’s sad, but I understand the reason why they are doing it. Lego has always been a bit progressive - even going as far as in commercials that girls can play with legos too. Unfortunately, the ones that throw the term ‘woke’ around like that tend to have pretty strong feelings about a “woman’s place in society”. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:55 PM, newsgro...@micromuseum.co.uk wrote: On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - and the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via cctalk Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Women of Computing Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.” — Brie On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly misapplied in this instance. --Jason On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: Great.not. Why do we need woke Lego?
Re: Women of Computing
Lego puts poly pocket to shame. I agree with urwife and thank her for her work lobbying lego plz keep it up itsthe truly universal toy of everything On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 5:24 p.m. Alan Perry via cctalk, < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > LEGO is not doing this. This is part of the LEGO Ideas program, ideas > for LEGO sets submitted by the LEGO user community. Someone proposes a > set to the community and, if it gets 10,000 votes from the community, > LEGO will consider making an official set out of it. Other examples of > LEGO Ideas sets are the Saturn V rocket and ISS. > > > This set was likely inspired by another Ideas set that went through the > process and became an official set - > https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/women-of-nasa-21312 > > > LEGO itself has been a bit behind the curve on including female minifigs > in their sets. My wife is active in the AFOL (Adult Fans Of LEGO) > community. She has been lobbying LEGO for more female figures for much > of her life, partly because LEGO was considered a "boys'" toy when we > were growing up. (We were born at the beginning of Gen X FWIW.) > > > alan > > > On 12/4/21 12:09 PM, Brielle via cctalk wrote: > > See, if it had been presented like that, it would likely have not > elicited the same response. > > > > It’s sad, but I understand the reason why they are doing it. Lego has > always been a bit progressive - even going as far as in commercials that > girls can play with legos too. > > > > Unfortunately, the ones that throw the term ‘woke’ around like that tend > to have pretty strong feelings about a “woman’s place in society”. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:55 PM, newsgro...@micromuseum.co.uk wrote: > >> > >> On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role > - and the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. > >> > >> -Original Message----- > >> From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via > cctalk > >> Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 > >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >> Subject: Re: Women of Computing > >> > >> Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you > are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you > seriously. > >> > >> He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t > like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer > history.” > >> > >> — Brie > >> > >>> On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems > grossly misapplied in this instance. > >>> > >>> --Jason > >>> > >>> > >>>>> On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: > >>>> Great.not. > >>>> > >>>> Why do we need woke Lego? > >> >
Re: Women of Computing
There's allot of masojinisitc crap in the system though.. I hear about it from female friends. That were in school and now in the field it's there and changing some countries or cities are worse then others as well On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 4:48 p.m. Chris Long via cctalk, < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I accept that far less women than men work in computing. > > I believe however that this is large due to their own perception of the > industry and their career choices. > > Almost all the women I know would describe working in it as "sad" or > "geeky" and several of them are married men who do work in IT. > > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Toby Thain via > cctalk > Sent: 04 December 2021 22:24 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Women of Computing > > On 2021-12-04 2:55 p.m., Chris Long via cctalk wrote: > > On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - > and the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. > > > > False. Women still do not play 'an equal role' in STEM today, and did not > in the 20th C either. Have you ever reflected on why not? It is a systemic > issue that has been well studied and documented, and most relevantly, > described by women. > > > -Original Message- > > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via > > cctalk > > Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > > > Subject: Re: Women of Computing > > > > Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you > are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you > seriously. > > > > He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t > like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer > history.” > > > > — Brie > > > >> On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >> I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems > grossly misapplied in this instance. > >> > >> --Jason > >> > >> > >>> On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: > >>> Great.not. > >>> > >>> Why do we need woke Lego? > > > > > > >
Re: Women of Computing
LEGO is not doing this. This is part of the LEGO Ideas program, ideas for LEGO sets submitted by the LEGO user community. Someone proposes a set to the community and, if it gets 10,000 votes from the community, LEGO will consider making an official set out of it. Other examples of LEGO Ideas sets are the Saturn V rocket and ISS. This set was likely inspired by another Ideas set that went through the process and became an official set - https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/women-of-nasa-21312 LEGO itself has been a bit behind the curve on including female minifigs in their sets. My wife is active in the AFOL (Adult Fans Of LEGO) community. She has been lobbying LEGO for more female figures for much of her life, partly because LEGO was considered a "boys'" toy when we were growing up. (We were born at the beginning of Gen X FWIW.) alan On 12/4/21 12:09 PM, Brielle via cctalk wrote: See, if it had been presented like that, it would likely have not elicited the same response. It’s sad, but I understand the reason why they are doing it. Lego has always been a bit progressive - even going as far as in commercials that girls can play with legos too. Unfortunately, the ones that throw the term ‘woke’ around like that tend to have pretty strong feelings about a “woman’s place in society”. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:55 PM, newsgro...@micromuseum.co.uk wrote: On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - and the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via cctalk Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Women of Computing Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.” — Brie On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk wrote: I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly misapplied in this instance. --Jason On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: Great.not. Why do we need woke Lego?
RE: Women of Computing
I accept that far less women than men work in computing. I believe however that this is large due to their own perception of the industry and their career choices. Almost all the women I know would describe working in it as "sad" or "geeky" and several of them are married men who do work in IT. -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Toby Thain via cctalk Sent: 04 December 2021 22:24 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Women of Computing On 2021-12-04 2:55 p.m., Chris Long via cctalk wrote: > On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - and > the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. > False. Women still do not play 'an equal role' in STEM today, and did not in the 20th C either. Have you ever reflected on why not? It is a systemic issue that has been well studied and documented, and most relevantly, described by women. > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via > cctalk > Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: Women of Computing > > Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are > trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. > > He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like > having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.” > > — Brie > >> On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly >> misapplied in this instance. >> >> --Jason >> >> >>> On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: >>> Great.not. >>> >>> Why do we need woke Lego? > >
Re: Women of Computing
On 2021-12-04 2:55 p.m., Chris Long via cctalk wrote: On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - and the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. False. Women still do not play 'an equal role' in STEM today, and did not in the 20th C either. Have you ever reflected on why not? It is a systemic issue that has been well studied and documented, and most relevantly, described by women. -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via cctalk Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Women of Computing Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.” — Brie On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk wrote: I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly misapplied in this instance. --Jason On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: Great.not. Why do we need woke Lego?
Re: Women of Computing
On Sat, Dec 04, 2021 at 06:20:33PM -, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: > Great.not. > > Why do we need woke Lego? To annoy people who use dogwhistles.
Re: Women of Computing
Woke lego?? What lego has been at fore front of this idea of being open to all for a long time so woke hah no being there as a community of growing and creativity yes... What's wrong with bringing out a set to celebrate these women who in many cases worked in toxic male bs environments... let's celebrate. Not complain plus there's now a univac in an official lego set!! On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 12:20 p.m. Chris Long via cctalk, < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Great.not. > > Why do we need woke Lego? > > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Zane Healy via > cctalk > Sent: 03 December 2021 17:35 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Women of Computing > > I really want to see this set produced, especially for the “Ada Lovelace” > and “Admiral Hopper” portions of the set. > > > https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/a4ae09b6-0d4c-4307-9da8-3ee9f3d368d6/post/f39b7001-bf76-46ba-9d61-cb586f1c7a7d > > https://ideas.lego.com/projects/3bf5b46c-6c87-4a2d-a2e1-d31ed0e2739e > > Zane > > > >
Re: Women of Computing
See, if it had been presented like that, it would likely have not elicited the same response. It’s sad, but I understand the reason why they are doing it. Lego has always been a bit progressive - even going as far as in commercials that girls can play with legos too. Unfortunately, the ones that throw the term ‘woke’ around like that tend to have pretty strong feelings about a “woman’s place in society”. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:55 PM, newsgro...@micromuseum.co.uk wrote: > > On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - and > the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. > > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via cctalk > Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Women of Computing > > Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are > trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. > > He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like > having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.” > > — Brie > >> On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly >> misapplied in this instance. >> >> --Jason >> >> >>>> On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: >>> Great.not. >>> >>> Why do we need woke Lego? > >
RE: Women of Computing
On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - and the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via cctalk Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Women of Computing Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.” — Brie > On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk > wrote: > > I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly > misapplied in this instance. > > --Jason > > >> On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: >> Great.not. >> >> Why do we need woke Lego?
Re: Women of Computing
Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.” — Brie > On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk > wrote: > > I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly > misapplied in this instance. > > --Jason > > >> On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: >> Great.not. >> >> Why do we need woke Lego?
Re: Women of Computing
I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly misapplied in this instance. --Jason On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: Great.not. Why do we need woke Lego? -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Zane Healy via cctalk Sent: 03 December 2021 17:35 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Women of Computing I really want to see this set produced, especially for the “Ada Lovelace” and “Admiral Hopper” portions of the set. https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/a4ae09b6-0d4c-4307-9da8-3ee9f3d368d6/post/f39b7001-bf76-46ba-9d61-cb586f1c7a7d https://ideas.lego.com/projects/3bf5b46c-6c87-4a2d-a2e1-d31ed0e2739e Zane
Re: Women of Computing
On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 10:20 AM Chris Long via cctalk wrote: Great.not. Why do we need woke Lego? Excellent use of compression on the list: a question that contains its own answer :-) Antonio -- Antonio Carlini anto...@acarlini.com
Re: Women of Computing
I really want to see this set produced, especially for the ???Ada Lovelace??? and ???Admiral Hopper??? portions of the set. https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/a4ae09b6-0d4c-4307-9da8-3ee9f3d368d6/post/f39b7001-bf76-46ba-9d61-cb586f1c7a7d https://ideas.lego.com/projects/3bf5b46c-6c87-4a2d-a2e1-d31ed0e2739e Great.not. Why do we need woke Lego? OK, Boomer. On Sat, 4 Dec 2021, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: The correct answer is women and men in computing within some sort of historical context so that it does not seem like the fact that a person happens to be a woman that they're being featured rather than due to their actual accomplishments. The title sounds like a Playboy spread. Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler versions of it would certainy sell better. Especially if life sized. 'course, there's already Lego computer porn. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/efdc9919-0435-4a50-ab6d-a74f7aa7113d https://archive.curbed.com/2017/7/27/16053224/chris-mcveigh-lego-building-guide-desktop-computer But, could it compete with a Monroe-Bot? (Futurama, "I dated a robot" Season 3, episode 47)
Re: Women of Computing
On Sat, Dec 4, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > The correct answer is women and men in computing within some sort of > historical context so that it does not seem like the fact that a person > happens to be a woman that they're being featured rather than due to their > actual accomplishments. How dare LEGO(tm) remind me that women exist? This is clearly communism. - Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA w...@loomcom.com
Re: Women of Computing
The correct answer is women and men in computing within some sort of historical context so that it does not seem like the fact that a person happens to be a woman that they're being featured rather than due to their actual accomplishments. On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 1:38 PM Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: > On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 10:20 AM Chris Long via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > Great.not. > > > > Why do we need woke Lego? > > > > OK, Boomer. > - Josh > > > > -Original Message- > > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Zane Healy via > > cctalk > > Sent: 03 December 2021 17:35 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > Subject: Women of Computing > > > > I really want to see this set produced, especially for the “Ada Lovelace” > > and “Admiral Hopper” portions of the set. > > > > > > > https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/a4ae09b6-0d4c-4307-9da8-3ee9f3d368d6/post/f39b7001-bf76-46ba-9d61-cb586f1c7a7d > > > > https://ideas.lego.com/projects/3bf5b46c-6c87-4a2d-a2e1-d31ed0e2739e > > > > Zane > > > > > > > > >
Re: Women of Computing
On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 10:20 AM Chris Long via cctalk wrote: > Great.not. > > Why do we need woke Lego? > OK, Boomer. - Josh > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Zane Healy via > cctalk > Sent: 03 December 2021 17:35 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Women of Computing > > I really want to see this set produced, especially for the “Ada Lovelace” > and “Admiral Hopper” portions of the set. > > > https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/a4ae09b6-0d4c-4307-9da8-3ee9f3d368d6/post/f39b7001-bf76-46ba-9d61-cb586f1c7a7d > > https://ideas.lego.com/projects/3bf5b46c-6c87-4a2d-a2e1-d31ed0e2739e > > Zane > > > >
RE: Women of Computing
Great.not. Why do we need woke Lego? -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Zane Healy via cctalk Sent: 03 December 2021 17:35 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Women of Computing I really want to see this set produced, especially for the “Ada Lovelace” and “Admiral Hopper” portions of the set. https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/a4ae09b6-0d4c-4307-9da8-3ee9f3d368d6/post/f39b7001-bf76-46ba-9d61-cb586f1c7a7d https://ideas.lego.com/projects/3bf5b46c-6c87-4a2d-a2e1-d31ed0e2739e Zane
Women of Computing
I really want to see this set produced, especially for the “Ada Lovelace” and “Admiral Hopper” portions of the set. https://ideas.lego.com/blogs/a4ae09b6-0d4c-4307-9da8-3ee9f3d368d6/post/f39b7001-bf76-46ba-9d61-cb586f1c7a7d https://ideas.lego.com/projects/3bf5b46c-6c87-4a2d-a2e1-d31ed0e2739e Zane
