-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
Guzis
Sent: 15 June 2015 18:25
To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-
Topic Posts
Subject: Re: using new technology on old machines. Was: PDP-12 Restoration
at
Not all EE's have the same education with regard to how semiconductors
function. When I was in school I took a class in semiconductor physics
- an entire semester on how the wee beasties function - more than most EEs.
The prof., Henry Guckel, told an interesting story about an advanced IBM
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:53:33PM +0200, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 04:53:01PM +, tony duell wrote:
I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
(smaller,
(I would change the subject line, but I am not sure how to do it in my
ISP's web mail client)
As far as I know XH558 will be permanently stationed at Finningley after
this year's flying season is completed. The full details are here:
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/, including dates of flypasts and
On Jun 17, 2015, at 10:50 , Toby Thain t...@telegraphics.com.au wrote:
Here's a cute gotcha I hit this week:
- Have a running Windows 8.1 machine with PS/2 keyboard.
- Shut it down, start up with only USB keyboard.
- Shut down and boot again with PS/2 keyboard atached.
- Windows ignores
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:14:18PM -0700, Mark J. Blair wrote:
On Jun 15, 2015, at 21:59, tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: Even
though there are at least 4 different USB connectors
Ok, you got me there! When I was working for a GPS startup, I used mini-B on
everything I
On Jun 16, 2015, at 06:46, tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
Again, I wonder if the data retention time decreases as the number of bits
per device increases. Intuitively it should. Mind you, any SD card is probably
going to be more reliable than a real TU58 tape now :-)
I think
I am of course counting all the transistors inside that chip.
Well, that was obvious. But it raises an interesting point, today you
can cram a whole computer in the footprint of the simplest DIP carrier.
For the same price point and same reliablity. Is it then overkill if you
choose to
Choosing the larger card is, IMO, the right answer because you don't
actually waste the space, you extend the life significantly because the
wear leveling will spread your 256K across the entire flash region.
The larger that region, the less often you re-write the same cells,
thereby extending
On Jun 16, 2015, at 07:36, Chris Elmquist chr...@pobox.com wrote:
So, now you have to use a Type A to Type A cable to connect this box to
your computer.
That is just really, really messed up and I honestly tried to make it
right but it was like pushing a rope.
I hope my friends will
Again, I wonder if the data retention time decreases as the number of bits
per device increases. Intuitively it should. Mind you, any SD card is
probably
going to be more reliable than a real TU58 tape now :-)
I think that paper tape, used outdoors on a rainy day, is likely to be more
reliable
On Tuesday (06/16/2015 at 07:24AM -0700), Mark J. Blair wrote:
On Jun 16, 2015, at 06:46, tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
Again, I wonder if the data retention time decreases as the number of bits
per device increases. Intuitively it should. Mind you, any SD card is
On Tuesday (06/16/2015 at 07:43AM -0700), Mark J. Blair wrote:
On Jun 16, 2015, at 07:36, Chris Elmquist chr...@pobox.com wrote:
So, now you have to use a Type A to Type A cable to connect this box to
your computer.
That is just really, really messed up and I honestly tried to make it
On Monday (06/15/2015 at 10:14PM -0700), Mark J. Blair wrote:
On Jun 15, 2015, at 21:59, tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
Even though there are at least 4 different USB connectors
Ok, you got me there! When I was working for a GPS startup, I used mini-B on
everything I
On Tue, 16 Jun 2015, tony duell wrote:
Actually, IIRC a USB A male-female cable violates the spec...
The spec forbids extending the cable further?
Or should the spec forbid absolutely any cable,
with absolutely any USB connector on either end?
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 04:32:23AM +, tony duell wrote:
Oh come on. You yourself said you are here to learn. This module
is hardly complicatated.
Well, you got me there :)
/P
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 04:28:16AM +, tony duell wrote:
I am of course counting all the transistors inside that chip.
Well, that was obvious. But it raises an interesting point, today you
can cram a whole computer in the footprint of the simplest DIP carrier.
For the same price point and
While I agree that as long as things can be restored it's not a real
problem, I'm surprised that not more people consider it a serious overkill.
We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate a
baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to building
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:52:28AM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate
a baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to
building hardware nowadays?
Speaking for myself, yes.
I have a Teensy 2.0 lying at my desk,
Indeed, you use what is at hand and what you are comfortable with.
/P
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 09:41:42PM +0200, Simon Claessen wrote:
as long as it is done in a way that it can be restored to its
original, i have no problems in using newer technology in older
machines. we have a alix sbc
as long as it is done in a way that it can be restored to its original, i have no problems in using newer technology in older machines. we have a alix sbc build into our tek 4002a
for demonstrational purpouses, all done without damaging or altering the original machine.
On 14-06-15 17:25, tony
I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
(smaller, easier to hide) would probably serve just as well.
If you have the ttl logic bits lying around and know how to use them, fine.
Still would
I don't think it is over kill. If you want over kill try this:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALXax3Gydl8
and FPGA implementation of the Baby or SSEM which had 32x32 bits of RAM. The
implementation uses around 1% of the Spartan 3E 1200K gates, and that includes
the logic to generate the VGA
We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate
a baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to
building hardware nowadays?
Speaking as someone who didn't do that, but might well have - it's not
a question of handicapped; it's a question of convenience,
On Jun 15, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Pontus Pihlgren pon...@update.uu.se wrote:
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:52:28AM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate
a baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to
building hardware
Why not do it properly first time? What is the rush in bringing up a
classic computer? And for a test,
use the TTL pulse generator you have on your bench.
I don't have one. I have a lot of test equipment, but mostly for RF work. If
I needed to generate TTL pulses, I'd
probably pull
I am very worried that people would rather use a microcontroller than change
a couple of passives. Can't anyone read a schematic and think
Nope. I didn't know this hobby required a degree in electrical
engineering.
Well it had better not. I don't have one
By your criteria a lot of
On Jun 15, 2015, at 21:28, tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
As am I. I've learnt a heck of a lot since I started (there is a common myth
that there is something magic about a processor. This hobby has taught
me to understand quite a few at the gate level). And the day I stop
Unfortunately I believe you. Use at least a thousand times more components
than
you need to.
Actually it's just two, a Teensy and a usb cable. (Sorry, I couldn't
resist).
I am of course counting all the transistors inside that chip.
How do you suggest I learn? I believe you had a
I am very worried that people would rather use a microcontroller than change
a couple of passives. Can't anyone read a schematic and think
The exact same argument could be made for somebody using an NE555 instead of
discrete transistors to blink an
LED, or discrete transistors
On Jun 15, 2015, at 21:59, tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
Even though there are at least 4 different USB connectors
Ok, you got me there! When I was working for a GPS startup, I used mini-B on
everything I designed with USB (always devices, never hosts, and no need for
USB
On Jun 15, 2015, at 09:53 , tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
(smaller, easier to hide) would probably serve just as well.
Would
Would you put plastic handles on a piecc of antique furniture? Would you
make the seatboard for an antique longcase clock from MDF?
Both are easily reversable, BTW.
Sure! Temporarily and reversibly, of course, and I'd hope to replace them
with proper stuff when possible. But
to
I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
(smaller, easier to hide) would probably serve just as well.
Would you put plastic handles on a piecc of antique furniture? Would you
make the
-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of ben
Sent: 15 June 2015 17:18
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: FPGA tricks - Re: using new technology on old machines. Was:
PDP-12 Restoration at the RICM
On 6/15/2015 9:08 AM, Toby Thain
On 6/15/2015 10:57 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
But alas the software does *not* support the older chips.
How old is old? I managed to get a copy of ISE10.1 downloaded,
installed and running without phoning, ringing or otherwise jumping
through hoops. That supports the Spartan 2 which has been
We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate
a baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to
building hardware nowadays?
Speaking for myself, yes.
Unfortunately I believe you. Use at least a thousand times more components than
you need to.
Now,
On 6/15/2015 11:33 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
On Jun 15, 2015, at 1:28 PM, ben bfranc...@jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
On 6/15/2015 10:57 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
But alas the software does *not* support the older chips.
How old is old? I managed to get a copy of ISE10.1 downloaded,
installed and running
On Jun 15, 2015, at 09:18, ben bfranc...@jetnet.ab.ca wrote:
But alas the software does *not* support the older chips.
You want to make a mod 5 years down the road, sorry we do not
support that model any more. TTL needs to be stock piled
now for the next +50 years.
Good point. Just as TTL
On Jun 15, 2015, at 11:54 , tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
Why not do it properly first time? What is the rush in bringing up a classic
computer? And for a test,
use the TTL pulse generator you have on your bench.
I don't have one. I have a lot of test equipment, but mostly for
On Jun 15, 2015, at 12:15 , tony duell a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
I am very worried that people would rather use a microcontroller than change
a couple of passives. Can't anyone read a schematic and think
The exact same argument could be made for somebody using an NE555 instead of
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 04:55:57PM +, tony duell wrote:
Unfortunately I believe you. Use at least a thousand times more components
than
you need to.
Actually it's just two, a Teensy and a usb cable. (Sorry, I couldn't
resist).
In general this worries me if you are restoring a
We're talking about putting in a rather complex computer to generate a
baud rate. Are people really that handicapped when it comes to building
hardware nowadays? Are people aware how easy baud generators are?
I've jsut turned up the M452 schematic. Has anyone else looked at it?
It's a
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 04:53:01PM +, tony duell wrote:
I also think it is in the spirit of the computer - using what is available
to fix a problem at hand. I think the arduino was overkill when an attiny
(smaller, easier to hide) would probably serve just as well.
Would you put
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 01:59:11PM -0700, Mark J. Blair wrote:
Big. VERY big. :)
And one more thing (until the next thing comes to mind): I consider
this to be an enjoyable and level-headed debate, just in case anybody
gets the mistaken impression that I'm trying to come down hard on Tony
On Jun 15, 2015, at 14:56 , Dave G4UGM dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote:
A friend of mine refused to buy modern SD Cards because there was no way he
was going to fill them. Trouble is that although smaller SD cards were
available they were way more expensive (being discontinued and therefore
A friend of mine refused to buy modern SD Cards because there was no way he
was going to fill them. Trouble is that although smaller SD cards were
available they were way more expensive (being discontinued and therefore
rare and valuable).. He struggled with buying a larger card only to waste
most
On Jun 15, 2015, at 14:27 , Robert Jarratt robert.jarr...@ntlworld.com
wrote:
This particular thread has all the hallmarks of one that *could* descend
into a flame war. Thank you for avoiding that!
I think we're doing ok. The same folks having a spirited debate in this thread
are carrying
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