Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Jon Elson via cctalk
On 08/16/2019 02:50 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 15 Aug 2019, Noel Chiappa wrote: An additional issue, I think, is that Google is deprecating sites that use HTTP, versus HTTPS. I can't comment more, lest I start ranting at the utter Not true, in contrary, Google even crawls

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 13 (Curt Vendel)

2019-08-16 Thread Michael Thompson via cctalk
> > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 12:06:48 -0400 > From: Curt Vendel > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 13 > > Will... > > I?m still waiting for you and the Rhode Island Computer Society to get my > brand new in the box 9766, the Alignment disk platter, the box of

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Paul Koning via cctalk
> On Aug 16, 2019, at 6:14 AM, Steven M Jones via cctalk > wrote: > > On 08/15/2019 23:21, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: >> I have on several occasions posted appeals to this list for people to >> contribute content to it, and gotten almost no response (with one notable >> exception), in

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread systems_glitch via cctalk
Paul, I've got a board house I usually use, but if I can find a shop in the USA that will do hard gold plating and provide a comparable cost-per-board, I'd certainly switch! Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 12:55 AM Paul Anderson wrote: > Hi Jonathan, > > If you are looking for

Re: Scanner: was : Re: VAX DATATRIEVE orange binders (4)

2019-08-16 Thread Al Kossow via cctalk
On 8/15/19 11:21 PM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote: > Is this the same, Al is using? > (can't find the reference anymore) > > The scanning info is on the main bitsavers.org page I'm still using a Panasonic KV-S3065CW I checked the backlog of scanned VAX manuals, and it doesn't look

Google site ordering (Was: Archiving information)

2019-08-16 Thread Noel Chiappa via cctalk
> From: Christian Corti >> An additional issue, I think, is that Google is deprecating sites that >> use HTTP, versus HTTPS. > Not true, in contrary, Google even crawls through FTP sites :-) I did say "deprecate", not 'ignore totally'! :-) Here's what I know: An e-commerce site

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread Jon Elson via cctalk
On 08/16/2019 08:59 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: Paul, I've got a board house I usually use, but if I can find a shop in the USA that will do hard gold plating and provide a comparable cost-per-board, I'd certainly switch! There are few board houses in the US anymore, and they are

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread Dennis Boone via cctalk
> I've gotten the distinct impression that US board houses really are > only interested in government/military/aerospace work. I've often > wondered what it would take to set up a modern "no human interaction" > line and if one could be even a little competitive with the Chinese > on it.

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread Paul Koning via cctalk
> On Aug 16, 2019, at 2:43 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk > wrote: > > I'm sure DEC wouldn't have bothered with hard gold plating if their > connectors were metallurgically incompatible :P The few busted DEC > connectors I've replaced did indeed have selective gold plating on the > contact

Re: Google site ordering (Was: Archiving information)

2019-08-16 Thread Seth J. Morabito via cctalk
Noel Chiappa via cctalk writes: > I assume he knew what he was talking about (via his Web-site engineering > people). I suppose I could research it, but I don't have the time right > at the moment. I'd love to hear if anyone else knows more. It is true. Google now marks any site that is not

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread systems_glitch via cctalk
I'm sure DEC wouldn't have bothered with hard gold plating if their connectors were metallurgically incompatible :P The few busted DEC connectors I've replaced did indeed have selective gold plating on the contact surfaces. Most quality edge connector slots are similarly constructed. Thanks,

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Noel Chiappa via cctalk
> From: Steven M Jones > imagine that a law is passed in a far away land, and the site owner > decides it's is too risky to bother with, and they then take the entire > site down - wiki and fora - with no warning and no access to the > material... > .. > I would

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Seth J. Morabito via cctalk
Paul Koning via cctalk writes: > Anything worth having around deserves backup. Which makes me wonder > -- how is Wikipedia backed up? I guess it has a fork, which isn't > quite the same thing. I know Bitsavers is replicated in a number of > places. And one argument in favor of GIT is that

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread dwight via cctalk
I was wondering, does anyone check the thickness of the gold plating anymore. Years ago, working at another large company, we saw quite a bit of cheating on this. Trust but verity. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Dennis Boone via cctalk Sent: Friday, August

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread dwight via cctalk
One of the problems with archiving is what to do with items that are not popular. Some things might be more valued ten or twenty years in the future but not now. Is the fact that the item has relatively low interest now a possible reason to not archive it in a searchable form for future

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread systems_glitch via cctalk
You can look it up in an electronegativity chart for a quick "will these ruin each other" check. I think a lot of this comes from the SIMM era in PCs, where folks were told to only use gold-flash SIMMs in gold sockets, and only tin plated SIMMs in tin plated sockets. Thanks, Jonathan On Fri,

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread ben via cctalk
On 8/16/2019 1:50 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 15 Aug 2019, Noel Chiappa wrote: An additional issue, I think, is that Google is deprecating sites that use HTTP, versus HTTPS. I can't comment more, lest I start ranting at the utter Not true, in contrary, Google even crawls

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread systems_glitch via cctalk
Dwight, I spot check boards. I lack sufficiently sensitive instruments to measure actual thickness (even on a surface plate, it's the same for ENIG as hard gold with an 0.0001" indicator) but ENIG won't stand up to a few swipes with an ink eraser, whereas hard gold will stand up to it no problem.

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Tomasz Rola via cctalk
On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 02:21:36AM -0400, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: [...] > Yeah, I added "CHWiki" to the text on the Main Page to make it a > little easier Because of curiosity, I tried. On gog: === chwiki - because gog discovers I type from Poland and "chwiki" looks like Polish word

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread ben via cctalk
On 8/16/2019 12:13 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: Dwight, I spot check boards. I lack sufficiently sensitive instruments to measure actual thickness (even on a surface plate, it's the same for ENIG as hard gold with an 0.0001" indicator) but ENIG won't stand up to a few swipes with an ink

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread systems_glitch via cctalk
Indeed, when I tried to get quotes for the first XT-IDE run, the best US-based quote I got was around $15/board with a *16 WEEK* lead time. Compare to my usual "does good hard gold" shop in China, PCB Cart, at $8/board (final all-in cost) and 12 day lead time, including the initial tooling fees.

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread systems_glitch via cctalk
That *is* surprising, HP sometimes gold plated the whole thing! In any case, I will continue to run edge connectors with the superior albeit more expensive selective hard gold process :P Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 5:46 PM Brent Hilpert via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: >

Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Charles via cctalk
I am still struggling with my ADM-5. The smoke I mentioned last time came from a tantalum capacitor decoupling a -20V supply. After removing it, I got back to the monitor showing a cursor. Interesting you should mention that... early in the debugging process (always start with the power

Scanner: was : Re: VAX DATATRIEVE orange binders (4)

2019-08-16 Thread emanuel stiebler via cctalk
On 2019-08-16 01:41, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote: > Yes it's an easy scanning job. I have a suitable Fujitsu fi-4530C ADF > (great machine). Was just testing the waters for interest Is this the same, Al is using? (can't find the reference anymore)

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Christian Corti via cctalk
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019, Noel Chiappa wrote: An additional issue, I think, is that Google is deprecating sites that use HTTP, versus HTTPS. I can't comment more, lest I start ranting at the utter Not true, in contrary, Google even crawls through FTP sites :-) Christian

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Noel Chiappa via cctalk
> From: Eric Christopherson >> Anyway, the whole 'how do we find the info' is a part of why I started >> working on CHWiki, once I discovered it > Psst: it would've been a good idea to share the URL to CHWiki. Well, that passing reference wasn't an attempt to get people to go

Event Reminder: DEC Legacy is back on 9th-10th Nov 2019, Windermere UK

2019-08-16 Thread mark--- via cctalk
Just a quick reminder for those folk thinking about registering... The next DEC Legacy will take place Saturday 9th November 2019 - Sunday 10th at the Marchesi Centre in Windermere, North West UK. With a focus on Digital Equipment Corporation and their legacy of hardware, software and ethos

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread Jon Elson via cctalk
On 08/16/2019 05:59 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > From: Brent Hilpert > I've seen pieces of HP high-end lab equipment from thru the 60s that > used tin plating on the PCB edge fingers, mating into gold-plated edge > connectors on the backplane. ISTR that DEC used

Re: Pinout for current loop interface

2019-08-16 Thread Ethan Dicks via cctalk
On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 12:12 AM Charles via cctalk wrote: > Is there any standard pinout for 20 ma current loop using a DB-25 connector, > analogous to the well-documents RS-232 serial interface? >From checking a couple of devices, I don't think so. Here's how the original IBM Async adapter

Re: Pinout for current loop interface

2019-08-16 Thread Warner Losh via cctalk
On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 10:56 PM Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 12:12 AM Charles via cctalk > wrote: > > Is there any standard pinout for 20 ma current loop using a DB-25 > connector, > > analogous to the well-documents RS-232 serial interface? > > From checking a couple

Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Charles via cctalk
Today the replacement 'LS193 arrived, so I put it in the previously-installed socket and the screen is now 24x80 again :) I'd been testing with the dip switch in half-duplex mode... For final test, I put it in FDX, connected to my HP protocol analyzer, and what do you know, no serial data out.

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread Noel Chiappa via cctalk
> From: Brent Hilpert > I've seen pieces of HP high-end lab equipment from thru the 60s that > used tin plating on the PCB edge fingers, mating into gold-plated edge > connectors on the backplane. ISTR that DEC used bronze contacts in their backplanes, but basically all the

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread systems_glitch via cctalk
As Jon said, from my analysis of busted-apart DEC connectors, there's a selectively plated "pad" where the contact surface actually is. I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of the contact fingers is *phosphor bronze* which is often used in springs. Perhaps we can get Connor to do a metallurgical

Pinout for current loop interface

2019-08-16 Thread Charles via cctalk
Is there any standard pinout for 20 ma current loop using a DB-25 connector, analogous to the well-documents RS-232 serial interface? My PDP-8/A drives an ASR-33, and having just restored an ADM-3A I want to be able to unplug the TTY and plug in the ADM. I somewhat arbitrarily put the transmit

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread ben via cctalk
On 8/16/2019 12:53 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: From what I remember, the detailed analysis involves an "electrochemical series", which has metals like sodium at one end, copper closer to the middle, and gold at or near the other end. Metals are compatible if their potential value

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread Brent Hilpert via cctalk
On 2019-Aug-16, at 11:56 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 2:53 PM Paul Koning wrote: >> >>> On Aug 16, 2019, at 2:43 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk < >>> >>> I'm sure DEC wouldn't have bothered with hard gold plating if their >>> connectors were metallurgically

Re: GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

2019-08-16 Thread allison via cctalk
On 8/16/19 5:46 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote: > On 2019-Aug-16, at 11:56 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 2:53 PM Paul Koning wrote: >>> On Aug 16, 2019, at 2:43 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk < I'm sure DEC wouldn't have bothered with hard gold

Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Charles via cctalk
I found a newer version of the tech manual on bitsavers, which does mention the mysterious S8 switch (as well as the S6 switch that fills the screen with 0's upon clearing). "The gated EXTENSION port mode, when selected by switch S8, allows selective transmission of data from the keyboard, in

Re: Google site ordering (Was: Archiving information)

2019-08-16 Thread Cameron Kaiser via cctalk
> > I assume he knew what he was talking about (via his Web-site engineering > > people). I suppose I could research it, but I don't have the time right > > at the moment. I'd love to hear if anyone else knows more. > > It is true. Google now marks any site that is not using HTTPS as >

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Cameron Kaiser via cctalk
> Then imagine that a law is passed in a far away land, and the site owner > decides it's is too risky to bother with, and they then take the entire > site down - wiki and fora - with no warning and no access to the material... Gosh, Steven, I can't imagine for the *life of me* what site you're

Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Peter Coghlan via cctalk
Charles wrote: > Today the replacement 'LS193 arrived, so I put it in the > previously-installed socket and the screen is now 24x80 again :) > I'd been testing with the dip switch in half-duplex mode... For final test, > I put it in FDX, connected to my HP protocol analyzer, and what do you

RXV21 questions

2019-08-16 Thread Douglas Taylor via cctalk
I have 2 RXV21 RX02 controller boards.  They were bought to be used with the RX02 emulator, the one on github by AK6DN. Finally, I finished one of the emulator boards and tried it out on a PDP-11/03 and found that one of the RXV21  boards worked and the other didn't.  I assumed the one board

Re: Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

2019-08-16 Thread Steven M Jones via cctalk
On 08/15/2019 23:21, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: I have on several occasions posted appeals to this list for people to contribute content to it, and gotten almost no response (with one notable exception), in terms of added content; that was a large part of why I merely mentioned it in an

RE: Event Reminder: DEC Legacy is back on 9th-10th Nov 2019, Windermere UK

2019-08-16 Thread Rob Jarratt via cctalk
I think I already booked didn't I? Regards Rob > -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of mark--- via cctalk > Sent: 16 August 2019 08:17 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > > Subject: Event Reminder: DEC Legacy is back on 9th-10th Nov 2019, > Windermere