RE: Informer 213 terminal - 3274 / 3178 compatible ?

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind
> Sent: 14 June 2016 19:25
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: Informer 213 terminal - 3274 / 3178 compatible ?
> 
> >
> > Looking at the documents on the web it looks like the AE is a straight
> > forward VT100 terminal, the PT was the 3270 version.
> > If it is an AE it should work with any Unix/Linux/PDP/VAX etc. etc.
> > out of the box.
> >
> >
> I think that the PT was a version which included a 386SX processor and the AE 
> is
> a pure terminal. http://bit.ly/1UrQL8Z My guess is that the firmware is the
> difference between the one I have and the the VT100 version. Possibly the
> modem board as well.
> 
> It is not possible to configure it to do anything like bi-sync. There is a 
> setting to
> configure NRZI or NRZ line coding, nothing else.

OK so that answers that question. It sounds like its HDLC only...

> 
> Let's hope there is someone out there that could dump the EPROMs. I hope to
> get a response from the guy which shows a VT100 Informer 213 on Youtube. It
> would be nice to actually use it. Attaching it to something IBMish using VTAM
> seems unlikely.
> 

I am not sure about that. There are HDLC to TCPIP gateways e.g. :-

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/zosbasics/com.ibm.zos.znetwork/znetwork_237.htm

> /Mattis
> 
> 
> > Dave
> > G4UGM
> >
> >

Re: Informer 213 terminal - 3274 / 3178 compatible ?

[Mattis Lind]

>
> Looking at the documents on the web it looks like the AE is a straight
> forward VT100 terminal, the PT was the 3270 version.
> If it is an AE it should work with any Unix/Linux/PDP/VAX etc. etc. out of
> the box.
>
>
I think that the PT was a version which included a 386SX processor and the
AE is a pure terminal. http://bit.ly/1UrQL8Z
My guess is that the firmware is the difference between the one I have and
the the VT100 version. Possibly the modem board as well.

It is not possible to configure it to do anything like bi-sync. There is a
setting to configure NRZI or NRZ line coding, nothing else.

Let's hope there is someone out there that could dump the EPROMs. I hope to
get a response from the guy which shows a VT100 Informer 213 on Youtube. It
would be nice to actually use it. Attaching it to something IBMish using
VTAM seems unlikely.

/Mattis


> Dave
> G4UGM
>
>

RE: Informer 213 terminal - 3274 / 3178 compatible ?

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks
> Sent: 13 June 2016 21:06
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: Informer 213 terminal - 3274 / 3178 compatible ?
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Dave G4UGM 
> wrote:
> >> does have a Rockwell modem board in it.
> >>
> >> I did find an old Computerworld ad from 1989 which matched. Informer
> >> 213 - emulating a 3274 control unit with an attached 3178 mod 2 terminal.
> >> Someone with IBM knowledge might share what that means and how the
> >> terminal can be used.
> >>
> >
> > Reading the add it looks like you need a dial-up SDLC (that’s synchronous
> data) link into a mainframe with a telecoms controller running VTAM, l which I
> guess is as rare as hens teeth these days.
> > When you get to the set up menu's can you check if  it can run bi-sync as 
> > that
> might be hackable, providing a suitable synchronous modem can be found.
> 
> Some time around 1992, give or take, there were piles of Informer 207s for
> sale cheap at the Dayton Hamfest.  We were doing Bisync and SNA products at
> the time, so we bought a couple.  We were able to fiddle our environment
> enough to get one of them to connect - our flagship product was an SNA PU
> type 2, much like a 3274 terminal controller, but with interactive sessions 
> via
> VT100 + software 3270 emulation instead of a real IBM 3270.  My memory is
> that you could dial up your
> 37x5 (via sync modem, as Dave mentioned) from one Informer 207, then attach
> several "child" Informer 207s to the first, as if you had a real 3274 + 
> multiple
> 3270s.  I have to think the later Informer terminals had the same 
> functionality
> (unless it was later determined that it was "better" (and/or cheaper) to do 
> one-
> modem-one-user instead of supporting a remote office and multiple sessions
> off of one connection.
> 
> Essentially, what we had to do with out Informer 207 was to provision our
> environment pretty much the same as adding a new 3274 and get the settings
> to match on both sides of the phone line.  I think it took a few hours of 
> fiddling
> to get both sides happy.
> 
> The 207 was SNA-only.  It did not support HASP or 3780, the predominant bisync
> protocols (we supported those on other products, and they are _far_ simpler
> than anything SNA).
> 
> Sorry I don't have any data on the 213.  It sounds like a device we would have
> liked to have had 20+ years ago.
> 
> -ethan

Looking at the documents on the web it looks like the AE is a straight forward 
VT100 terminal, the PT was the 3270 version.
If it is an AE it should work with any Unix/Linux/PDP/VAX etc. etc. out of the 
box.

Dave
G4UGM

Re: Informer 213 terminal - 3274 / 3178 compatible ?

[Ethan Dicks]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Dave G4UGM  wrote:
>> does have a Rockwell modem board in it.
>>
>> I did find an old Computerworld ad from 1989 which matched. Informer 213 -
>> emulating a 3274 control unit with an attached 3178 mod 2 terminal.
>> Someone with IBM knowledge might share what that means and how the
>> terminal can be used.
>>
>
> Reading the add it looks like you need a dial-up SDLC (that’s synchronous 
> data) link into a mainframe with a telecoms controller running VTAM, l which 
> I guess is as rare as hens teeth these days.
> When you get to the set up menu's can you check if  it can run bi-sync as 
> that might be hackable, providing a suitable synchronous modem can be found.

Some time around 1992, give or take, there were piles of Informer 207s
for sale cheap at the Dayton Hamfest.  We were doing Bisync and SNA
products at the time, so we bought a couple.  We were able to fiddle
our environment enough to get one of them to connect - our flagship
product was an SNA PU type 2, much like a 3274 terminal controller,
but with interactive sessions via VT100 + software 3270 emulation
instead of a real IBM 3270.  My memory is that you could dial up your
37x5 (via sync modem, as Dave mentioned) from one Informer 207, then
attach several "child" Informer 207s to the first, as if you had a
real 3274 + multiple 3270s.  I have to think the later Informer
terminals had the same functionality (unless it was later determined
that it was "better" (and/or cheaper) to do one-modem-one-user instead
of supporting a remote office and multiple sessions off of one
connection.

Essentially, what we had to do with out Informer 207 was to provision
our environment pretty much the same as adding a new 3274 and get the
settings to match on both sides of the phone line.  I think it took a
few hours of fiddling to get both sides happy.

The 207 was SNA-only.  It did not support HASP or 3780, the
predominant bisync protocols (we supported those on other products,
and they are _far_ simpler than anything SNA).

Sorry I don't have any data on the 213.  It sounds like a device we
would have liked to have had 20+ years ago.

-ethan

RE: Informer 213 terminal - 3274 / 3178 compatible ?

[Dave G4UGM]

> does have a Rockwell modem board in it.
> 
> I did find an old Computerworld ad from 1989 which matched. Informer 213 -
> emulating a 3274 control unit with an attached 3178 mod 2 terminal.
> Someone with IBM knowledge might share what that means and how the
> terminal can be used.
> 

Reading the add it looks like you need a dial-up SDLC (that’s synchronous data) 
link into a mainframe with a telecoms controller running VTAM, l which I guess 
is as rare as hens teeth these days.
When you get to the set up menu's can you check if  it can run bi-sync as that 
might be hackable, providing a suitable synchronous modem can be found.

> Anyway. I put together a webpage on the thing:
> http://www.datormuseum.se/peripherals/terminals/informer-213
> 
> /Mattis
> 

Dave
G4UGM

Re: Informer 213 terminal - 3274 / 3178 compatible ?

[Mattis Lind]

2016-06-11 22:00 GMT+02:00 Pete Turnbull :

> On 11/06/2016 18:17, Mattis Lind wrote:
>
>> I just dig out this little thing form my father stash of various stuff.
>>
>> When bringing up the setup screen it does not look like the one in the
>>
> > manual.
>
> I love the way they felt they had to explain the keyboard at such length.
> And explain that the unmarked key is the space bar - I remember when I was
> about 6 or 7, having to ask my dad how to get a space on his office
> typewriter.
>
> I was also amused to see they have a section on connecting it to the UK's
> BT lines (in the days when things needed BT Approval) so it's obviously
> intended for UK use, yet it's pictured with an American power lead.


Unfortunately for me my unit does not seem to be the same as the one in the
manual. The section on connecting to BT lines is probably still valid since
it does have a Rockwell modem board in it.

I did find an old Computerworld ad from 1989 which matched. Informer 213 -
emulating a 3274 control unit with an attached 3178 mod 2 terminal. Someone
with IBM knowledge might share what that means and how the terminal can be
used.

Anyway. I put together a webpage on the thing:
http://www.datormuseum.se/peripherals/terminals/informer-213

/Mattis




>
>
> --
> Pete
>

Re: Informer 213 terminal

[Pete Turnbull]

On 11/06/2016 18:17, Mattis Lind wrote:

I just dig out this little thing form my father stash of various stuff.

When bringing up the setup screen it does not look like the one in the

> manual.

I love the way they felt they had to explain the keyboard at such 
length.  And explain that the unmarked key is the space bar - I remember 
when I was about 6 or 7, having to ask my dad how to get a space on his 
office typewriter.


I was also amused to see they have a section on connecting it to the 
UK's BT lines (in the days when things needed BT Approval) so it's 
obviously intended for UK use, yet it's pictured with an American power 
lead.


--
Pete

Informer 213 terminal

[Mattis Lind]

I just dig out this little thing form my father stash of various stuff.

Had to replace the input filter module since there were a small cloud when
powering it up. It also left fair amount of thick smelly tar in the
machine. But the exact replacement were still to be found some 30 years
later.
The little thing is driven by a 68B09 processor, some ROM and RAM and a big
NEC ship marked "Informer". Maybe a custom ASIC. The screen is a Lohja /
Finlux 512x256 EL display.

When bringing up the setup screen it does not look like the one in the m
anual. It looks more
IBMish.

http://i.imgur.com/7EX5uTz.jpg

It says 374/SNA - Rev 2.1

Does anyone have a more non-IBMish firmware set (or is there some other way
to make it more VT100)? A 27256 and a 2764 goes into the terminal.

There is a Youtube video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvPR8UypXNw , on
a Informer 213 but the firmware seems to be different (at around 1:31).

/Mattis