Re: [RESOLVED] Re: EPROM baking

[dwight via cctalk]

It might be a good idea to put color codes like on a resistor on the connector 
plug. You know, green for 5 gold for + center pin and silver for - center pin.

No gold or silver band would be AC.

Brown Red Gold would be 12VDC + on center pin.

Dwight



From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Chuck Guzis via 
cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 7:28:38 AM
To: Tor Arntsen via cctalk
Subject: Re: [RESOLVED] Re: EPROM baking

On 02/06/2018 12:05 AM, Tor Arntsen via cctalk wrote:

> .. which led me to accidentally power a USB hub with 12V instead of
> 5V - the power supplies looked the same, had the same plug, and I
> couldn't read the tiny writing on the warts. That blew the nicest
> notebook PC I've ever found - I bought it in Japan at a special
> price, the normal price is out of my league.


I've done worse--used an AC-supply wall wart on a piece of equipment.
Poor thing didn't stand a chance.

You'd have thought that after all these years, some sort of keying
system would have been developed, but I guess not.

--Chuck

Re: [RESOLVED] Re: EPROM baking

[Alexander Schreiber via cctalk]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 11:06:29AM -0800, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 02/05/2018 10:20 AM, Mark G Thomas via cctalk wrote:
> 
> > 2) Many of the chips were failing to program because my Batronix 
> >programmer apparently requires more current than my USB port provides. 
> >This surprised me because I have been programming chips for years 
> >using this programmer on this computer port successfully, and this 
> >is the first I have had the problem. Using a Anker powered USB hub solved
> >things. My Batronix programmer even arrived with a cheap powered hub 
> >when I ordered it, but I never used it because it was shipped with an 
> >incompatible wall wart, but looking at it in the box gave me the idea
> >that this might be the issue.
> 
> You should be aware that many "thin" Far East USB cables will not pass
> the full USB 1.5A current without substantial voltage drop.   I recently

Maximum current from a standard USB 2.0 port is 500 mA, USB 3.0 ups that to
900 mA. To really get some power via USB, you have to go all the way to
USB C connectors and PD (power delivery), where you easily get 65 W, at the
expense of quite bit of complexity on both ends of the cable.

Of course there are plenty of USB chargers that are all over the map - and
they usually just abuse USB cabling as power wiring, trying to cram 2 A or
more down it - which might not work if whoever made the cable "saved" a bit
too aggressively on the copper.

> ran into this with a new LG portable DVD drive.  It refused to operate,
> even though I'd just taken it out of the box.   I replaced the "thin"
> USB cable with several other "thin" ones that I had with the same
> result.  Finally, in desperation, I located a "thick" USB cable, plugged
> the drive in, and discovered that it worked just fine.
> 
> Moral:  There's a lot of garbage out there.

Is there ever, sadly. Including dangerous garbage - with the power levels
of USB C and PD, bad cables (and chargers) can actually by a serious fire
risk. Fortunately, Benson Leung is on a crusade against this:
https://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/11/05/a-google-engineer-is-reviewing-usb-c-cables-on-amazon-and-its-awesome/

Kind regards,
   Alex. 
-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."  -- Thomas A. Edison

Re: [RESOLVED] Re: EPROM baking

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/06/2018 12:05 AM, Tor Arntsen via cctalk wrote:

> .. which led me to accidentally power a USB hub with 12V instead of
> 5V - the power supplies looked the same, had the same plug, and I 
> couldn't read the tiny writing on the warts. That blew the nicest 
> notebook PC I've ever found - I bought it in Japan at a special
> price, the normal price is out of my league.


I've done worse--used an AC-supply wall wart on a piece of equipment.
Poor thing didn't stand a chance.

You'd have thought that after all these years, some sort of keying
system would have been developed, but I guess not.

--Chuck

Re: [RESOLVED] Re: EPROM baking

[Tor Arntsen via cctalk]

On 5 February 2018 at 20:06, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
 wrote:
> I have a similar gripe with barrel connectors,
> which don't seem to enforce any standard at all regarding polarity or AC
> vs. DC.

.. which led me to accidentally power a USB hub with 12V instead of 5V
- the power supplies looked the same, had the same plug, and I
couldn't read the tiny writing on the warts. That blew the nicest
notebook PC I've ever found - I bought it in Japan at a special price,
the normal price is out of my league.

Since then I have bought a Dymo and, armed with a magnifying glass,
went through all the chargers and warts I own and labelled them. Which
I should have done *before* the accident of course. But what if there
was some kind of standard for barrel connectors instead.. sigh.

Re: [RESOLVED] Re: EPROM baking

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 12:06 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> You should be aware that many "thin" Far East USB cables will not pass
> the full USB 1.5A current without substantial voltage drop.
>

"Full USB current" is only 0.5A for USB 2, and 0.9A for USB 3. Any USB
device that needs more current than that should be using the Battery
Charging, Power Delivery, or Type C options, or some combination thereof,
and suitable cabling.

However, I don't disagree with your assertion that there are a lot of
really crappy USB cables out there.

Re: [RESOLVED] Re: EPROM baking

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/05/2018 01:02 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

> I was going to say...I would not have thought any USB-powered prom
> programmer to be the best solution.  I have two programmers both have their
> own wall power connectors and they're reliable.  I am not saying that it
> would not be possible that an USB-powered prom programmer would work, but
> I'd personally want to stick with something with some legroom.  I always
> measure my USB supplies and cables' output to separate out the ones that
> don't provide enough umph from those that do.
> Happy computing

I don't use one now, but I used to have a USB-powered programmer and it
worked okay for GALs and 27C UV EPROMs as well as EEPROMs.
However, if I were using older parts, I'm not so sure.

The interesting thing is that upon opening the thing up, you could see
pads for a wall-wart barrel jack (unpopulated).   So who knows, perhaps
Bill's USB programmer is similarly equipped.

I still use an older Xeltek Superpro for most things.  It does the job.

--Chuck

Re: [RESOLVED] Re: EPROM baking

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

My EPROM Programmers all have a connection foir external power

specifically because sometimes USB can't provide the needed current.


bill


On 02/05/2018 02:06 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 02/05/2018 10:20 AM, Mark G Thomas via cctalk wrote:
>
>> 2) Many of the chips were failing to program because my Batronix
>> programmer apparently requires more current than my USB port provides.
>> This surprised me because I have been programming chips for years
>> using this programmer on this computer port successfully, and this
>> is the first I have had the problem. Using a Anker powered USB hub solved
>> things. My Batronix programmer even arrived with a cheap powered hub
>> when I ordered it, but I never used it because it was shipped with an
>> incompatible wall wart, but looking at it in the box gave me the idea
>> that this might be the issue.
> You should be aware that many "thin" Far East USB cables will not pass
> the full USB 1.5A current without substantial voltage drop.   I recently
> ran into this with a new LG portable DVD drive.  It refused to operate,
> even though I'd just taken it out of the box.   I replaced the "thin"
> USB cable with several other "thin" ones that I had with the same
> result.  Finally, in desperation, I located a "thick" USB cable, plugged
> the drive in, and discovered that it worked just fine.
>
> Moral:  There's a lot of garbage out there.
>
> Rant:  The whole scheme of supplying anything but low-current using USB
> is a terrible idea.  I have a similar gripe with barrel connectors,
> which don't seem to enforce any standard at all regarding polarity or AC
> vs. DC.
>
> For my own projects I've taken to using mini XLR connectors. Perhaps not
> optimal, but they're rugged enough.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: [RESOLVED] Re: EPROM baking

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/05/2018 10:20 AM, Mark G Thomas via cctalk wrote:

> 2) Many of the chips were failing to program because my Batronix 
>programmer apparently requires more current than my USB port provides. 
>This surprised me because I have been programming chips for years 
>using this programmer on this computer port successfully, and this 
>is the first I have had the problem. Using a Anker powered USB hub solved
>things. My Batronix programmer even arrived with a cheap powered hub 
>when I ordered it, but I never used it because it was shipped with an 
>incompatible wall wart, but looking at it in the box gave me the idea
>that this might be the issue.

You should be aware that many "thin" Far East USB cables will not pass
the full USB 1.5A current without substantial voltage drop.   I recently
ran into this with a new LG portable DVD drive.  It refused to operate,
even though I'd just taken it out of the box.   I replaced the "thin"
USB cable with several other "thin" ones that I had with the same
result.  Finally, in desperation, I located a "thick" USB cable, plugged
the drive in, and discovered that it worked just fine.

Moral:  There's a lot of garbage out there.

Rant:  The whole scheme of supplying anything but low-current using USB
is a terrible idea.  I have a similar gripe with barrel connectors,
which don't seem to enforce any standard at all regarding polarity or AC
vs. DC.

For my own projects I've taken to using mini XLR connectors. Perhaps not
optimal, but they're rugged enough.

--Chuck