Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
When did the DECUS purge occur? Marc On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 8:26 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > On 12/8/18 11:16 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > > On 12/8/18 7:10 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > >> As long as we're talking about old PDP-11 DECUS stuff I > >> > >> am still looking for a copy of: > >> > >> 11S042 Symposium Tape from the RSTS SIG, Spring 1980, > >> > >> Chicago Version: Spring 1980 > >> > >> > >> Of course, I would be interested in pretty much anything from > >> > >> the RSTS SIG but this is my holy grail. :-) > >> > >> > >> bill > >> > >> > > Maybe I can talk Josh at LCM+L to work on a joint project in 2019 to > > see what DECUS submissions they and CHM have. > > > > I know Lyle would really like me to read his DECUS > > PDP-12 DECtapes and I really should better organize > > what is in bitsavers.org/bits/DEC. I probably makes > > sense to break out the DECUS library there. > > > Would be nice to save what of this can still be recovered. > > It was disturbing to hear DECUS threw stuff out, but not > > surprising. I know of other such actions. Stuff Dennis > > Ritchie donated to a former East Coast Computer Museum > > was discarded and I also know of stuff given to USENIX > > that they tossed (luckily some of that has been recovered > > but I am sure much was lost permanently). > > > bill > > >
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
were the decus confrinces ever held in multi level parking garages? keep hearing a story of one that was so big it took over one. door prize was a rainbow 100 my dad won in 79 80?? tells me he got a membership when he was a teen i the early 70's after hanging out with the nasa guys in the 60's in town who used to run experiments up in northern manitoba On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 2:10 PM emanuel stiebler via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 2018-12-08 13:24, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > name my original DECUS Membership # was > > > > 368513. Don't remember what year but it was likely mid 80's. > > WOW, we were close, mine is 364059 > > ;-) >
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 2018-12-08 13:24, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > name my original DECUS Membership # was > > 368513. Don't remember what year but it was likely mid 80's. WOW, we were close, mine is 364059 ;-)
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 10:24 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > my original DECUS Membership # was > > 368513. Don't remember what year but it was likely mid 80's. I just took my card out of my wallet last year. 113104, late 70s
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 10:19 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Do they include the sources? Are they up on bitsavers anywhere? Not currently, what I have is what was released on the Languages and Tools SIG tape in RATFOR I'll put the tape images I have up as soon as I can find them. I'm trying to find my Glen Everhart RSX .TPC images right now I also just fixed a couple of CHM DECUS paper tape catalog entries for the PDP-1 and PDP-8 so they are correctly identified as such. > [VMSLT02B.GCE]AAAREADME.TXT;2 < Stuff for Fall 2002 > [VMSLT02B.LTSIG]AAAREADME.TXT;1 < LT Sig 1987-88 This directory contains the Languages and Tools SIG material from the 1987-88 sigtape they put out which has been difficult to find. Included is the last edition of the LBL Software Tools as released for VMS, plus a few other interesting items which appeared at that time. While this material is not known specifically to work in Alpha (it predates the Alpha by a few years) it is written in very portable Ratfor and many of the tools will probably "just work". Presented here to help ensure it is not forgotten. --- you'll have to pull this off IA or go through the annon ftp, since http://decuslib.com is down
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 1:18 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > The DECUS conference proceedings I've scanned > gives attendance > > DECUS membership 1961-1972 > > 1961 12 > 1962 25 > 1963 43 > 1964 202 > 1965 426 > 1966 850 > 1967 2008 > 1968 3476 > 1969 6054 > 1970 9110 > 1971 12213 - 5590 installation delegates, 6623 individual members. > 1972 15295 - 7052 8243 > > This is only up through the start of the PDP-11, it obviously got > MUCH bigger after that. > > There were also large LUGs (Local Interest Groups) > The ones in Milwaukee and Chicago were pretty big. > > On 12/8/18 10:10 AM, Adrian Stoness wrote: >> how big were the decus confrinces back in the day? I don't know if it reflects an actual count, but before Compaq changed the DECUS Membership # to an alphabetic jumble taken from your name my original DECUS Membership # was 368513. Don't remember what year but it was likely mid 80's. bill
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 10:18 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > The DECUS conference proceedings I've scanned > gives attendance arg.. membership attendance would have been much smaller
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 1:13 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > On 12/8/18 9:50 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > >> What I know about first-hand was all the research on The >> >> Software Tools Virtual Operating System. I had worked with >> >> it on Pr1me and Univac-1100 back in the 80's. I got interested >> >> in it again and started searching for it. Could not find anything >> >> but was able to get in touch with Deborah Scherrer who was >> >> one of the primaries on the research and she informed me that >> >> she had sent all her work to USENIX who held it a few years >> >> and then just trashed it. I have since found some of it, but >> >> places that had done the ports (GA Tech for the Pr1me.) had >> >> also just scrapped it all when it was no longer of interest. >> >> Truly sad how much of our history has been lost. >> >> >> bill >> >> > I chased that same windmill a few years ago including talking to Deborah. > I turned up some tapes of code from LBL (same as the Structured Languages > tape) but I've never > found anything for Pr1me Do they include the sources? Are they up on bitsavers anywhere? My reason for looking for Pr1me was that they were one of the most complete at the time I was working with it. I would love to get a full set of later sources and revive it just for fun. Nobody seems to realize that they had accomplished POSIX long before the concept was even given thought. I see it as being just like UCSD-Pascal. An idea ahead of its time that got dropped only to be reinvented decades later. bill
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
The DECUS conference proceedings I've scanned gives attendance DECUS membership 1961-1972 1961 12 1962 25 1963 43 1964 202 1965 426 1966 850 1967 2008 1968 3476 1969 6054 1970 9110 1971 12213 - 5590 installation delegates, 6623 individual members. 1972 15295 - 7052 8243 This is only up through the start of the PDP-11, it obviously got MUCH bigger after that. There were also large LUGs (Local Interest Groups) The ones in Milwaukee and Chicago were pretty big. On 12/8/18 10:10 AM, Adrian Stoness wrote: > how big were the decus confrinces back in the day?
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 9:50 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > What I know about first-hand was all the research on The > > Software Tools Virtual Operating System. I had worked with > > it on Pr1me and Univac-1100 back in the 80's. I got interested > > in it again and started searching for it. Could not find anything > > but was able to get in touch with Deborah Scherrer who was > > one of the primaries on the research and she informed me that > > she had sent all her work to USENIX who held it a few years > > and then just trashed it. I have since found some of it, but > > places that had done the ports (GA Tech for the Pr1me.) had > > also just scrapped it all when it was no longer of interest. > > Truly sad how much of our history has been lost. > > > bill > > I chased that same windmill a few years ago including talking to Deborah. I turned up some tapes of code from LBL (same as the Structured Languages tape) but I've never found anything for Pr1me
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 11:11 AM Adrian Stoness via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > how big were the decus confrinces back in the day? > The one I went to in 89 had hundreds Warner
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
how big were the decus confrinces back in the day?
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 12:22 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > On 12/8/18 8:26 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: >> I also know of stuff given to USENIX >> that they tossed (luckily some of that has been recovered >> but I am sure much was lost permanently). > Paper or USENIX tapes? > > The early tapes are problematic because they required source licenses What I know about first-hand was all the research on The Software Tools Virtual Operating System. I had worked with it on Pr1me and Univac-1100 back in the 80's. I got interested in it again and started searching for it. Could not find anything but was able to get in touch with Deborah Scherrer who was one of the primaries on the research and she informed me that she had sent all her work to USENIX who held it a few years and then just trashed it. I have since found some of it, but places that had done the ports (GA Tech for the Pr1me.) had also just scrapped it all when it was no longer of interest. Truly sad how much of our history has been lost. bill
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 9:45 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: > Sounds like a great project, I'd be happy to help out. cool I also just noticed http://decuslib.com isn't responding The anonymous ftp still works, but doesn't have the zip files on it.
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 8:29 AM Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 12/8/18 7:10 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > As long as we're talking about old PDP-11 DECUS stuff I > > > > am still looking for a copy of: > > > > 11S042 Symposium Tape from the RSTS SIG, Spring 1980, > > > > Chicago Version: Spring 1980 > > > > > > Of course, I would be interested in pretty much anything from > > > > the RSTS SIG but this is my holy grail. :-) > > > > > > bill > > > > > > Maybe I can talk Josh at LCM+L to work on a joint project in 2019 to > see what DECUS submissions they and CHM have. > Sounds like a great project, I'd be happy to help out. - Josh > > I know Lyle would really like me to read his DECUS > PDP-12 DECtapes and I really should better organize > what is in bitsavers.org/bits/DEC. I probably makes > sense to break out the DECUS library there. > > > >
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 9:30 AM, Lyle Bickley wrote: > On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:04:52 -0800 > Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > >> On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: >>> Anyone has old DECUS distributions? >> >> For all intents and purposes, no >> >> DECUS threw them out. > > Not true It IS true for the PDP-11 library. I should have been more specific.
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:04:52 -0800 Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > Anyone has old DECUS distributions? > > For all intents and purposes, no > > DECUS threw them out. Not true for PDP-8 and PDP-12 DECUS. I was the last PDP-12 Coordinator for DECUS - which included all the PDP-8 DECUS as well as the specific PDP-12 DECUS software. I kept it all - and donated it in it's entirety to the Computer History Museum (CHM) years ago. The collection also included the MASTER source code for the DIAL operating system for the PDP-12 - as DEC wanted "someone" to have it rather than throw it out when they were closing out their archives. The only thing I retained from my DECUS activities is the DECUS "money" that we (DECUS) gave out for "change" when someone overpaid for an item ;) The DECUS "money" could only be spent for future software purchases from DECUS. BTW: The fees were copying fees which included media costs, etc. One didn't pay for the DECUS software itself. I hope that the CHM will make the libraries available to the public - which was my intent in donating them to the CHM in the first place. Lyle -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 8:26 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > I also know of stuff given to USENIX > that they tossed (luckily some of that has been recovered > but I am sure much was lost permanently). Paper or USENIX tapes? The early tapes are problematic because they required source licenses
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 11:16 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > On 12/8/18 7:10 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > >> As long as we're talking about old PDP-11 DECUS stuff I >> >> am still looking for a copy of: >> >> 11S042 Symposium Tape from the RSTS SIG, Spring 1980, >> >> Chicago Version: Spring 1980 >> >> >> Of course, I would be interested in pretty much anything from >> >> the RSTS SIG but this is my holy grail. :-) >> >> >> bill >> >> > Maybe I can talk Josh at LCM+L to work on a joint project in 2019 to > see what DECUS submissions they and CHM have. > > I know Lyle would really like me to read his DECUS > PDP-12 DECtapes and I really should better organize > what is in bitsavers.org/bits/DEC. I probably makes > sense to break out the DECUS library there. Would be nice to save what of this can still be recovered. It was disturbing to hear DECUS threw stuff out, but not surprising. I know of other such actions. Stuff Dennis Ritchie donated to a former East Coast Computer Museum was discarded and I also know of stuff given to USENIX that they tossed (luckily some of that has been recovered but I am sure much was lost permanently). bill
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 7:10 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > As long as we're talking about old PDP-11 DECUS stuff I > > am still looking for a copy of: > > 11S042 Symposium Tape from the RSTS SIG, Spring 1980, > > Chicago Version: Spring 1980 > > > Of course, I would be interested in pretty much anything from > > the RSTS SIG but this is my holy grail. :-) > > > bill > > Maybe I can talk Josh at LCM+L to work on a joint project in 2019 to see what DECUS submissions they and CHM have. I know Lyle would really like me to read his DECUS PDP-12 DECtapes and I really should better organize what is in bitsavers.org/bits/DEC. I probably makes sense to break out the DECUS library there.
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/8/18 10:00 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018, 6:09 PM Adrian Stoness via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote: > >> someone should get the source off him and put it out on the web >> >> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 4:34 PM Mattis Lind via cctalk < >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Den fre 7 dec. 2018 kl 23:04 skrev Al Kossow via cctalk < >>> cctalk@classiccmp.org>: >>> On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > Anyone has old DECUS distributions? For all intents and purposes, no DECUS threw them out. >>> Sad. >>> About the only thing that survives are the titles that were included on some of the SIG tapes. Working on gathering what parts still survive in individual collections would be a good thing, but I'm not holding my breath for it to happen. >>> I will check the labels of all the RL01, RL02, RK05 and RK07 packs I have >>> to see if there happens to be any DECUS material on them. >>> >>> However I found one Bill Seiler in Santa Cruz that is very likely to be >> the >>> very Bill Seiler that wrote the original SPACE WAR for PDP-11. Since he >> at >>> least had the source in 2006 it might be so that he still has it? >>> > I have at least one rk05 with decus material but I have not yet completed > the install/restoration of the drive and controller I have for my pdp 11/05 > or 11/40 to run and read the disks I have on hand. > > Who is the closest person to Philadelphia with a working pdp 11 and rk05 > drive, the LSSM in Pittsburgh perhaps? I can take to Dave tonseenif he is > willing to read in my 30 or so rk05 disks next time I visit thereor if > anyone with more experience than I would like to pop over to assist me for > an afternoon to get it running, please contact me via my web site. I'd be > willing to trade a pack or two for the help. I have working rk05s on my > pdp8e that we can borrow if need be so I am pretty sure soon enough I'll > have success. Part of my delay has been the fact that on my 11s I run > rl02s dont need rk05s. > Bill As long as we're talking about old PDP-11 DECUS stuff I am still looking for a copy of: 11S042 Symposium Tape from the RSTS SIG, Spring 1980, Chicago Version: Spring 1980 Of course, I would be interested in pretty much anything from the RSTS SIG but this is my holy grail. :-) bill
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On Fri, Dec 7, 2018, 6:09 PM Adrian Stoness via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org wrote: > someone should get the source off him and put it out on the web > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 4:34 PM Mattis Lind via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > Den fre 7 dec. 2018 kl 23:04 skrev Al Kossow via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org>: > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > > > Anyone has old DECUS distributions? > > > > > > For all intents and purposes, no > > > > > > DECUS threw them out. > > > > > > > Sad. > > > > > > > > About the only thing that survives are the titles that > > > were included on some of the SIG tapes. > > > > > > Working on gathering what parts still survive in individual > > > collections would be a good thing, but I'm not holding my > > > breath for it to happen. > > > > > > > I will check the labels of all the RL01, RL02, RK05 and RK07 packs I have > > to see if there happens to be any DECUS material on them. > > > > However I found one Bill Seiler in Santa Cruz that is very likely to be > the > > very Bill Seiler that wrote the original SPACE WAR for PDP-11. Since he > at > > least had the source in 2006 it might be so that he still has it? > > > I have at least one rk05 with decus material but I have not yet completed the install/restoration of the drive and controller I have for my pdp 11/05 or 11/40 to run and read the disks I have on hand. Who is the closest person to Philadelphia with a working pdp 11 and rk05 drive, the LSSM in Pittsburgh perhaps? I can take to Dave tonseenif he is willing to read in my 30 or so rk05 disks next time I visit thereor if anyone with more experience than I would like to pop over to assist me for an afternoon to get it running, please contact me via my web site. I'd be willing to trade a pack or two for the help. I have working rk05s on my pdp8e that we can borrow if need be so I am pretty sure soon enough I'll have success. Part of my delay has been the fact that on my 11s I run rl02s dont need rk05s. Bill >
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
someone should get the source off him and put it out on the web On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 4:34 PM Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > Den fre 7 dec. 2018 kl 23:04 skrev Al Kossow via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org>: > > > > > > > On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > > Anyone has old DECUS distributions? > > > > For all intents and purposes, no > > > > DECUS threw them out. > > > > Sad. > > > > > About the only thing that survives are the titles that > > were included on some of the SIG tapes. > > > > Working on gathering what parts still survive in individual > > collections would be a good thing, but I'm not holding my > > breath for it to happen. > > > > I will check the labels of all the RL01, RL02, RK05 and RK07 packs I have > to see if there happens to be any DECUS material on them. > > However I found one Bill Seiler in Santa Cruz that is very likely to be the > very Bill Seiler that wrote the original SPACE WAR for PDP-11. Since he at > least had the source in 2006 it might be so that he still has it? >
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
Den fre 7 dec. 2018 kl 23:04 skrev Al Kossow via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org>: > > > On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > > Anyone has old DECUS distributions? > > For all intents and purposes, no > > DECUS threw them out. > Sad. > > About the only thing that survives are the titles that > were included on some of the SIG tapes. > > Working on gathering what parts still survive in individual > collections would be a good thing, but I'm not holding my > breath for it to happen. > I will check the labels of all the RL01, RL02, RK05 and RK07 packs I have to see if there happens to be any DECUS material on them. However I found one Bill Seiler in Santa Cruz that is very likely to be the very Bill Seiler that wrote the original SPACE WAR for PDP-11. Since he at least had the source in 2006 it might be so that he still has it?
Re: DECUS PDP-11 SPACE WAR?
On 12/7/18 1:25 PM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: > Anyone has old DECUS distributions? For all intents and purposes, no DECUS threw them out. About the only thing that survives are the titles that were included on some of the SIG tapes. Working on gathering what parts still survive in individual collections would be a good thing, but I'm not holding my breath for it to happen.
