Re: M9301-YB ROM flaky

[william degnan via cctalk]

perfect, thanks I can use this.
Bill

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > From: William Degnan
>
> > what is the memory range
>
> That's in the disassembly page:
>
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/ROMs/M9301-YB.mac
>
> 765000-765776 and 773000-773776
>
>
> > can you post the ROM dump so I can compare on my end?
>
> Well, the contents are in that page too, but here's the output of my ROM
> dumper (URL posted further back in the thread):
>
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/ROMs/M9301-YB.txt
>
> if you just want to do a 'diff' (download the ROM dumper .LDA, run it, and
> compare its output).
>
>
> > call up same in PDPGUI and compare there
>
> I don't know what format PDPGUI uses; I don't use it (don't remember why).
>
> I wrote a bespoke PDP-11 console program that runs under Unix V6 (the same
> as
> we had BITD; when I wrote this code, I didn't have access to all the MIT
> sources, so I had to re-write it); that way I can either use it on my
> Windoze
> box - under Ersatz-11 - or on real PDP-11 hardware, going from one machine
> to
> another.
>
> Noel
>

Re: M9301-YB ROM flaky

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: William Degnan

> what is the memory range

That's in the disassembly page: 

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/ROMs/M9301-YB.mac

765000-765776 and 773000-773776


> can you post the ROM dump so I can compare on my end?

Well, the contents are in that page too, but here's the output of my ROM
dumper (URL posted further back in the thread):

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/ROMs/M9301-YB.txt

if you just want to do a 'diff' (download the ROM dumper .LDA, run it, and
compare its output).


> call up same in PDPGUI and compare there

I don't know what format PDPGUI uses; I don't use it (don't remember why).

I wrote a bespoke PDP-11 console program that runs under Unix V6 (the same as
we had BITD; when I wrote this code, I didn't have access to all the MIT
sources, so I had to re-write it); that way I can either use it on my Windoze
box - under Ersatz-11 - or on real PDP-11 hardware, going from one machine to
another.

Noel

Re: M9301-YB ROM flaky

[william degnan via cctalk]

what is the memory range / can you post the ROM dump so I can compare on my
end?  Just the memory contents will be fine, if this is convenient.  I will
call up same in PDPGUI and compare there.
Bill

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 11:24 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > From: Fritz Mueller
>
> > Even better news: I was subsequently able to dump the contents of my
> > M9301-YB, and found they do indeed exactly match the contents ...
> > posted in [the] M9301-YB disassembly.
>
> Excellent news!
>
> When I get as chance, I'l do more work on the disassembly (and note that
> the
> ROM contents have been verified between two different units).
>
> Noel
>

Re: M9301-YB ROM flaky

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Fritz Mueller

> Even better news: I was subsequently able to dump the contents of my
> M9301-YB, and found they do indeed exactly match the contents ...
> posted in [the] M9301-YB disassembly.

Excellent news! 

When I get as chance, I'l do more work on the disassembly (and note that the
ROM contents have been verified between two different units).

Noel

Re: M9301-YB ROM flaky

[william degnan via cctalk]

On Jul 5, 2017 1:49 AM, "Fritz Mueller via cctalk" 
wrote:
>
> Well, the situation had worsened on my M9301 to the point where every
single word was affected, and then it was easy to see that it was always in
the least-significant four bits.  So I pulled and reseated that PROM, then
went ahead and did the other three as well for good measure (really should
have just tried this first!), and things got totally back to normal.
>
> Even better news: I was subsequently able to dump the contents of my
M9301-YB, and found they do indeed exactly match the contents that Noel has
posted in his M9301-YB disassembly.  So I think Noel’s dump can be
considered verified/authoritative.
>
> cheers,
> —FritzM.
>

Good news.

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net

Re: M9301-YB ROM flaky

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

Well, the situation had worsened on my M9301 to the point where every single 
word was affected, and then it was easy to see that it was always in the 
least-significant four bits.  So I pulled and reseated that PROM, then went 
ahead and did the other three as well for good measure (really should have just 
tried this first!), and things got totally back to normal.

Even better news: I was subsequently able to dump the contents of my M9301-YB, 
and found they do indeed exactly match the contents that Noel has posted in his 
M9301-YB disassembly.  So I think Noel’s dump can be considered 
verified/authoritative.

cheers,
—FritzM.

Re: M9301-YB ROM flaky

[Fritz Mueller via cctalk]

Hi folks, thanks for all the help!

> On Jul 4, 2017, at 8:34 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> I see a few words with different values than the ones that Noel has
>> listed in his partial M9301-YB disassembly.
> 
> Any chance you could send in some of the differences? I can take a look at
> further disassembly, to see if the old values look reasonable (and if the new
> ones are clearly confused).

Yep, that would be the plan!  Sounds like we can get a third opinion from 
Bill’s board as well.

>> I haven't been able to find engineering drawings for the M9301 online
>> so far
> 
> But I'm a bit puzzled why you didn't find them online; I have a page…

Hunh, I did basic google diligence, yesterday, but came up empty…  I notice I 
get a 403 on your FMPSOnline page, though; maybe that’s giving the spiders some 
trouble too?

Thanks for the code as well, Noel — I was working up something along the same 
lines, but I can crib from yours now as well.

I may not be able to get back to this for a day or two, but I’ll keep you all 
posted here.

cheers,
  —FritzM.

Re: M9301-YB ROM flaky

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

I pulled out the M9301 and M9302 drawings from the set and uploaded them to 
bitsavers dec/unibus

On 7/4/17 8:34 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

> As Mattis says, they are in the 11/04 drawings (MP00019). But I'm a bit
> puzzled why you didn't find them online; I have a page, "'Missing' Digital
> Equipment Corporation Field Maintenance Print Sets Online":
> 
>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/FMPSOnline.html  
> 
> specifically to deal with this, and indeed a search for "M9301 Field
> Maintenance Print Set" and "M9301 Engineering Drawings" turns up this page as
> the first entry for both searches?

Re: M9301-YB ROM flaky

[Mattis Lind via cctalk]

>
>
> There is a note in the M9301 Operator’s Manual about the layout of the
> PROMs - words split into 4 bit fields programmed in all the PROMs in
> “parallel”, lower 8 bits inverted to support extra invert in the switch
> circuitry, and higher-addressed bank in the lower-half of the PROMs.  512x4
> tri-state parts.  Anybody have any particular part recommends for the
> PROMs?  I haven’t been able to find engineering drawings for the M9301
> online so far to check the original PROM part numbers, either.
>
>

The M9301 Engineering Drawings can be found in the PDP-11/04 print set.

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp11/1104/MP00019_1104_EngrDrws_Feb78.pdf


The PROMs are standard 512x4 TS PROMs. Signetics 82S131 / Harris 7621 / MMI
6306 / F 93446





> I may also have a go at writing a program I can toggle in to read the
> contents of my failing M9301 and dump them out over the console serial to
> enable a systematic comparison with Noel’s listing.
>
> cheers!
>   —FritzM.
>
>