Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/21/2018 01:25 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:


So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt) a
Microvax II from another list member yesterday.


OK, the top PSU of the pair in this machine appears to be healthy. The 
bottom one, however, sits at around 2.5V on both the +5V and +12V outputs. 
That's without any cards, and the card-cage fan / temperature sensor 
unplugged, i.e. just with my dummy loads in place, so it looks like that 
PSU has issues (oh, and I tried decoupling the PSU from the backplane and 
loading it via the drive connector, so it doesn't appear to be a backplane 
issue).


I expect it's fixable, but I'm unsure what the system may have done at the 
point it originally failed, given that it was responsible for both the 
card-cage fan and the temperature sensor - hopefully it didn't sit there 
for hours with no card cooling, no overheat sensor, and with power applied 
to [at least some of] the cards via the still-working PSU.


Jules

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[allison via cctalk]

On 01/23/2018 07:58 PM, Jules Richardson via cctech wrote:
> On 01/22/2018 02:05 PM, allison via cctech wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 1/22/18 2:18 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
>>> I can't believe you 'just carry it into the house' all by yourself,
>>> unless you are professional athlete.
>>> I also have a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box and it has wheels
>>> for a
>>> reason!  The damn thing weighs 130 lbs!
>>> I took it to the VCF East last year, never do that again.  Too heavy.
>>>
>> Huge difference between BA23 and ba123 as the BA123 is about twice
>> the size
>> and internal board space.
>
> Mine's the BA123, the bigger one. It's heavy! I lifted it out of the
> van myself and put it onto one of the kids' old sleds so that I could
> drag it through the snow to the door it needed to go through, then
> picked it up again and took it up the few steps that were necessary.
> Did I mention that it was heavy?
>
> I did take the side panels off, which helped a lot - I could lift it
> (just) then with one hand around the top edge and the other on the
> metal bar at the bottom by the power inlet. I certainly wouldn't want
> to carry one far.
>
Your younger than I.  I moved min in the summer so the wheels were good
end ough anda 2WD Toyota pickup (1999) is low
so it was slide it up and in.  Using a a winch didn't hurt either.


>>> Yes, remove the NiCad battery.
>>>
>> Its easily replaced.
>
> Does leaving it out entirely cause any issues (at least during a
> testing phase)?
>
> If it's actually holding a charge at present (I seriously doubt it,
> but it doesn't appear to have leaked) is there any benefit to leaving
> it in initially - i.e. is it responsible for retaining any settings
> (e.g. disk parameters) that it would be useful for me to write down -
> assuming the system proves to be operational - before replacing it?
>
If its working and not leaking go for it.  Its easy to replace when you
need to.

>> RD53s had a problem with the head sticking against the stops.  I repair
>> them, yes I open them
>> unstick it then remove the offending the rubber parts.
>
> That's useful to know - I'm certainly not against doing that myself if
> it proves necessary (assuming that's the drive I have)
>
My favorite line for all this is Kaplagh~!  Go for it and get the docs
they can really help! 

Allison


> cheers
>
> Jules
>

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/22/2018 02:05 PM, allison via cctech wrote:



On 1/22/18 2:18 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:

I can't believe you 'just carry it into the house' all by yourself,
unless you are professional athlete.
I also have a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box and it has wheels for a
reason!  The damn thing weighs 130 lbs!
I took it to the VCF East last year, never do that again.  Too heavy.


Huge difference between BA23 and ba123 as the BA123 is about twice the size
and internal board space.


Mine's the BA123, the bigger one. It's heavy! I lifted it out of the van 
myself and put it onto one of the kids' old sleds so that I could drag it 
through the snow to the door it needed to go through, then picked it up 
again and took it up the few steps that were necessary. Did I mention that 
it was heavy?


I did take the side panels off, which helped a lot - I could lift it (just) 
then with one hand around the top edge and the other on the metal bar at 
the bottom by the power inlet. I certainly wouldn't want to carry one far.



Yes, remove the NiCad battery.


Its easily replaced.


Does leaving it out entirely cause any issues (at least during a testing 
phase)?


If it's actually holding a charge at present (I seriously doubt it, but it 
doesn't appear to have leaked) is there any benefit to leaving it in 
initially - i.e. is it responsible for retaining any settings (e.g. disk 
parameters) that it would be useful for me to write down - assuming the 
system proves to be operational - before replacing it?



RD53s had a problem with the head sticking against the stops.  I repair
them, yes I open them
unstick it then remove the offending the rubber parts.


That's useful to know - I'm certainly not against doing that myself if it 
proves necessary (assuming that's the drive I have)


cheers

Jules

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

On 1/23/2018 7:58 PM, Jules Richardson via cctech wrote:

On 01/22/2018 02:05 PM, allison via cctech wrote:



On 1/22/18 2:18 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:

I can't believe you 'just carry it into the house' all by yourself,
unless you are professional athlete.
I also have a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box and it has wheels 
for a

reason!  The damn thing weighs 130 lbs!
I took it to the VCF East last year, never do that again.  Too heavy.

Huge difference between BA23 and ba123 as the BA123 is about twice 
the size

and internal board space.


Mine's the BA123, the bigger one. It's heavy! I lifted it out of the 
van myself and put it onto one of the kids' old sleds so that I could 
drag it through the snow to the door it needed to go through, then 
picked it up again and took it up the few steps that were necessary. 
Did I mention that it was heavy?
It won't get stolen.  At VCF there were some young folks who helped me, 
thanks to them!


I did take the side panels off, which helped a lot - I could lift it 
(just) then with one hand around the top edge and the other on the 
metal bar at the bottom by the power inlet. I certainly wouldn't want 
to carry one far.



Yes, remove the NiCad battery.


Its easily replaced.


Does leaving it out entirely cause any issues (at least during a 
testing phase)?
I was able to start and run the machine w/o the battery.  Had to enter 
the date/time each startup.  Not sure what else was remembered by the 
battery backup.


If it's actually holding a charge at present (I seriously doubt it, 
but it doesn't appear to have leaked) is there any benefit to leaving 
it in initially - i.e. is it responsible for retaining any settings 
(e.g. disk parameters) that it would be useful for me to write down - 
assuming the system proves to be operational - before replacing it?



RD53s had a problem with the head sticking against the stops.  I repair
them, yes I open them
unstick it then remove the offending the rubber parts.


That's useful to know - I'm certainly not against doing that myself if 
it proves necessary (assuming that's the drive I have)

I saved the RD53's, maybe they can be revived.


cheers

Jules

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/22/2018 08:07 AM, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote:

At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear (I've not

popped the panel off)... I suppose if it's linear then it perhaps doesn't
even need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at
least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has built-in
load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as designs occasionally do).

It's actually 3 separate boards and 2 identical discrete PSUs for +12 and
+5 in a massive metal box, the thing is a beast and fits along the whole
side of the machine behind the Q22 backplane.


Aha, so it is... I just removed it for a visual inspection. Pretty clean 
inside, some dust, five or six mouse turds (but no sign of piss damage), a 
chunk of slate, and a golf tee.


When the bit of slate fell out I was a little concerned that it was a 
fragment of ceramic IC/component packaging, but I really do think it's just 
a piece of slate tile or whatnot that had somehow found its way in there 
over the years.


No obviously-roached caps or other components, so I'll figure out some form 
of loading and give it a go.


cheers

J.

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

I can't believe you 'just carry it into the house' all by yourself, 
unless you are professional athlete.
I also have a MicroVax II in the BA123 world box and it has wheels for a 
reason!  The damn thing weighs 130 lbs!

I took it to the VCF East last year, never do that again.  Too heavy.

When I got mine, it had only 3MB of memory and I found that I couldn't 
install VMS 5.5-2 or 7.3 with that amount of memory.  I put in an 8 MB 
board and 11 MB total was fine.


You should make your own cable to connect the console to a PC or 
terminal.  Its that odd.  I found the PC connection to be helpful 
because you can log what you are doing.


Yes, remove the NiCad battery.

The box I got had 3 RD53 disks in it and none worked.  I am using a 
Viking SCSI controller and a SCSI2SD drive to boot the system.
I left the RX50 drives in and reconfigured the RQDX2 to address them.  
They come in handy for getting the VMS hobbyist licenses in.

The TK50 never worked.

I put a DELQA in for networking, never tried a DEQNA.

I consider it an important machine in computing history.  It allowed 
scientific researchers, like myself, to get off of remote mainframes 
that billed at fantastic rates and compute in a more relaxed environment.

BTW there is one in the Air & Space Museum in Washington DC.

On 1/21/2018 2:25 PM, Jules Richardson via cctech wrote:


So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I 
hurt) a Microvax II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically 
it's a disaster (BA123 has a cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing 
front door, missing right-rear panel) but internally it appears to be 
complete; board wise we have:


  M7606 - CPU
  M7608 - 4MB ram
  M9047 - grant continuity
  M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
  M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
  M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
  M7546 - TX50 controller

... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).

Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero 
knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what 
background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks, 
actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I 
can use to diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that point) how 
to actually use the thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather than 
Ultrix, but I don't know for sure). I'm wondering there aren't any 
handy tutorials out there, alongside whatever DEC docs are recommended.


* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all 
boards/drives, hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required 
it, and then at least running the PSU up in isolation first, but I 
don't know to what extent this machine requires some logic in place 
for the PSU to even run.


cheers

Jules

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[allison via cctalk]

On 1/22/18 8:43 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:

On 01/21/2018 04:04 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:

You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on.


Yes, Adrian Graham mentioned that (via FB), too. I seem to have 
extremely good luck with the RF filter caps, unlike other people, but 
I'm always prepared for the cloud of smoke :-)


I have several BA23 boxes both PDP11 and MicroVAX and never had this 
problem.

I may be a Eu (230V ac) issue.


Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any 
obviously

failed electrolytics. If  you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much 
in the

way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.


At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear (I've not 
popped the panel off)... I suppose if it's linear then it perhaps 
doesn't even need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I 
expect it'll at least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too 
(unless it has built-in load resistors to keep the regulation happy, 
as designs occasionally do).


Its a SMPS.  It must be loaded to work right and there are no loading 
resistors.


FYI there ca be an ISSUE with the SMPS to backplane cable.  The correct 
part has equal
length wires.  The earlier version of the cable had unequal length wires 
and tended to

overheat some of the pins and fail.  Be aware.


I see on the output rating label that it lists connection points for 
different outputs, so maybe I just need to slap a couple of suitable 
resistors onto the +5V and +12V outputs so that they draw an amp or 
so, and see how it goes.



Once you have the machine up and running...


Lets not get ahead of ourselves ;-)


I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though.


For MicroVMS its adequate but minimal.  Typical systems had 8 or 12MB 
though 16mb was possible.
For VMS 5 the DEQNA is fine if working, also you need 8mb to run well.  
With 12mb or more and a large disk (min RD54) VMS 6 or later is possible 
with DELQA (required after VMS5.4).


It will also run NetBSD (Myneed 8MB) and also Ultrix.

For disks

RD53 is 31mb (maybe adequate for MicroVMS), RD53 is about 70MB, RD54 is 
153mb.
The RD 54 is the biggest drive for the RQDX disk controller.  IF a CMD 
scsi controller
is in there then RZ scsi drives can be used and small started at about 
300mb and up.


Hmm, one of the things that I'm clueless about right now is how the 
bus evolved over the years - I've still got a pile of Q-bus boards 
which I saved from a recycler last year, and I know there's a 4MB 
board (made by Clearpoint, if I remember right) among them. But if 
that's designed for earlier PDP hardware then it's possibly no use 
whatsoever in a Vax world...


The correct board for MicroVAXII cpu has the over the top connector that 
lines up with the cpu

and needs a IDC 50 pin connector for CPU and each board, max of 3.

DO get the MicroVAX tech and user manual off bitsavers.  It will help 
greatly.   FYI many PDP11
board can be used to the limit of the backplane space the exception is 
memory as it must

be MicrovaxII  PMI (private memory bus interface).

FYI there are three possible cpus.  MicroVAX-I not much use as it very 
limited, MicroVAXII KA630
was the stock cpu and the later KA650 coule be installed.  All three use 
memory unique to that

CPU.

Also learn the backplane as it has unique slots for CPU and memory and 
shuffling cards can

cause problems.

The panel on the back cover carries the console connector and the TOY 
(time of year) battery

backup (NICd) that do fail and leak.  Replace.

Also the default NI interface is AUI so an AUI too Either coax or Cat 3 
or 5 wire is needed.


Like I said get the book its a very interesting machine and if the disk 
has a valid and boot able

OS there is a specific procedure for lost system password.

Allison

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 01/22/2018 07:43 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:

On 01/21/2018 04:04 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke 
soon after you

connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on.


Yes, Adrian Graham mentioned that (via FB), too. I seem to 
have extremely good luck with the RF filter caps, unlike 
other people, but I'm always prepared for the cloud of 
smoke :-)


Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually 
for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If  you have one of the DEC load 
boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think 
there is much in the

way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.


At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear 
(I've not popped the panel off)... I suppose if it's 
linear then it perhaps doesn't even need a load to do its 
thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at least 
need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has 
built-in load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as 
designs occasionally do).


All VAX and uVAX main power supplies are switching types.  
If you see an electrolytic cap in there with a 200+ V 
rating, that's a certain giveaway of a switching supply.


Jon

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

>At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear (I've not
popped the panel off)... I suppose if it's linear then it perhaps doesn't
even need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at
least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has built-in
load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as designs occasionally do).

It's actually 3 separate boards and 2 identical discrete PSUs for +12 and
+5 in a massive metal box, the thing is a beast and fits along the whole
side of the machine behind the Q22 backplane.

Cheers

A

On 22 January 2018 at 13:43, Jules Richardson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 01/21/2018 04:04 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>
>> You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
>> connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on.
>>
>
> Yes, Adrian Graham mentioned that (via FB), too. I seem to have extremely
> good luck with the RF filter caps, unlike other people, but I'm always
> prepared for the cloud of smoke :-)
>
> Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
>> failed electrolytics. If  you have one of the DEC load boards you could
>> connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in
>> the
>> way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
>>
>
> At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear (I've not
> popped the panel off)... I suppose if it's linear then it perhaps doesn't
> even need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at
> least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has built-in
> load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as designs occasionally do).
>
> I see on the output rating label that it lists connection points for
> different outputs, so maybe I just need to slap a couple of suitable
> resistors onto the +5V and +12V outputs so that they draw an amp or so, and
> see how it goes.
>
> Once you have the machine up and running...
>>
>
> Lets not get ahead of ourselves ;-)
>
> I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though.
>>
>
> Hmm, one of the things that I'm clueless about right now is how the bus
> evolved over the years - I've still got a pile of Q-bus boards which I
> saved from a recycler last year, and I know there's a 4MB board (made by
> Clearpoint, if I remember right) among them. But if that's designed for
> earlier PDP hardware then it's possibly no use whatsoever in a Vax world...
>
> cheers
>
> Jules
>
>


-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Jules Richardson via cctalk]

On 01/21/2018 04:04 PM, Rob Jarratt wrote:

You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on.


Yes, Adrian Graham mentioned that (via FB), too. I seem to have extremely 
good luck with the RF filter caps, unlike other people, but I'm always 
prepared for the cloud of smoke :-)



Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If  you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.


At this stage I've got no idea if it's a SMPSU or a linear (I've not popped 
the panel off)... I suppose if it's linear then it perhaps doesn't even 
need a load to do its thing. If it's a switcher then I expect it'll at 
least need something on +5V, and maybe +12V too (unless it has built-in 
load resistors to keep the regulation happy, as designs occasionally do).


I see on the output rating label that it lists connection points for 
different outputs, so maybe I just need to slap a couple of suitable 
resistors onto the +5V and +12V outputs so that they draw an amp or so, and 
see how it goes.



Once you have the machine up and running...


Lets not get ahead of ourselves ;-)


I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though.


Hmm, one of the things that I'm clueless about right now is how the bus 
evolved over the years - I've still got a pile of Q-bus boards which I 
saved from a recycler last year, and I know there's a 4MB board (made by 
Clearpoint, if I remember right) among them. But if that's designed for 
earlier PDP hardware then it's possibly no use whatsoever in a Vax world...


cheers

Jules

RE: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

When I was talking about VMS 5.x I meant that cluster to net boot from. I would 
suggest MicroVMS for the machine itself.

 

Regards

 

Rob

 

From: wl...@bsdimp.com [mailto:wl...@bsdimp.com] On Behalf Of Warner Losh
Sent: 21 January 2018 22:52
To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt <robert.jarr...@ntlworld.com>; General 
Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Cc: Jules Richardson <jules.richardso...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

 

 

 

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Warner Losh <i...@bsdimp.com 
<mailto:i...@bsdimp.com> > wrote:

 

 

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org 
<mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote:



> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org 
> <mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> ] On Behalf Of Jules
> Richardson via cctalk
> Sent: 21 January 2018 19:26
> To: xx Classiccmp mailing list <cctalk@classiccmp.org 
> <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> >
> Subject: Microvax II 'primer'?
>
>
> So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt) a
Microvax
> II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically it's a disaster (BA123
has a
> cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door, missing right-rear
panel)
> but internally it appears to be complete; board wise we have:
>
>M7606 - CPU
>M7608 - 4MB ram
>M9047 - grant continuity
>M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
>M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
>M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
>M7546 - TX50 controller
>
> ... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
>
> Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
> knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
> background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
> actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I can
use to
> diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that point) how to actually
use the
> thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather than Ultrix, but I don't
know for
> sure). I'm wondering there aren't any handy tutorials out there, alongside
> whatever DEC docs are recommended.
>
> * e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
boards/drives,
> hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required it, and then at
least
> running the PSU up in isolation first, but I don't know to what extent
this
> machine requires some logic in place for the PSU to even run.
>
> cheers
>



You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on. It doesn't
actually do any damage and the PSU will continue to work (assuming it is
just the filter capacitor). Check it, it is likely cracked and will soon go.
If I remember correctly there are actually two of three of these (marked
"RIFA"), it is probably a good idea just to replace them before they go.
Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If  you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.

Once you have the machine up and running the easiest thing to do is to boot
it over the DEQNA by setting up a cluster on SIMH and making your MicroVAX
II a satellite. I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though. Go with a
5.x version of VMS as I believe later versions may not support the DEQNA.

 

Doh! Hit send too soon:

 

The website http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html says

 

The DEQNA is obsolete (even by Q-bus standards), troublesome 
<http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html#Troubles> , and not supported by 
VMS <http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html#VMS_Support>  since about 
V5.4. A compatible card, the DELQA 
<http://antinode.info/dec/delqa_settings.html> , replaces the DEQNA. 

 

the rest is me

 

I was going to say VMS 4 is a better bet since 5 removed support, but looks 
like 5.4 is the last version with support. Though the MicroVAX is UP, so you 
might be better off with VMS 4 instead of VMS 5.

 

Warner

 

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:50 PM, Warner Losh  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules
>> > Richardson via cctalk
>> > Sent: 21 January 2018 19:26
>> > To: xx Classiccmp mailing list 
>> > Subject: Microvax II 'primer'?
>> >
>> >
>> > So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I
>> hurt) a
>> Microvax
>> > II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically it's a disaster
>> (BA123
>> has a
>> > cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door, missing right-rear
>> panel)
>> > but internally it appears to be complete; board wise we have:
>> >
>> >M7606 - CPU
>> >M7608 - 4MB ram
>> >M9047 - grant continuity
>> >M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
>> >M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
>> >M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
>> >M7546 - TX50 controller
>> >
>> > ... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
>> >
>> > Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
>> > knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
>> > background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
>> > actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I can
>> use to
>> > diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that point) how to actually
>> use the
>> > thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather than Ultrix, but I don't
>> know for
>> > sure). I'm wondering there aren't any handy tutorials out there,
>> alongside
>> > whatever DEC docs are recommended.
>> >
>> > * e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
>> boards/drives,
>> > hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required it, and then at
>> least
>> > running the PSU up in isolation first, but I don't know to what extent
>> this
>> > machine requires some logic in place for the PSU to even run.
>> >
>> > cheers
>> >
>>
>>
>> You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
>> connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on. It doesn't
>> actually do any damage and the PSU will continue to work (assuming it is
>> just the filter capacitor). Check it, it is likely cracked and will soon
>> go.
>> If I remember correctly there are actually two of three of these (marked
>> "RIFA"), it is probably a good idea just to replace them before they go.
>> Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
>> failed electrolytics. If  you have one of the DEC load boards you could
>> connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in
>> the
>> way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
>>
>> Once you have the machine up and running the easiest thing to do is to
>> boot
>> it over the DEQNA by setting up a cluster on SIMH and making your MicroVAX
>> II a satellite. I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though. Go with
>> a
>> 5.x version of VMS as I believe later versions may not support the DEQNA.
>>
>
> Doh! Hit send too soon:

The website http://antinode.info/dec/deqna_settings.html says


> The DEQNA is obsolete (even by Q-bus standards), troublesome
> , and not
> supported by VMS
>  since about
> V5.4. A compatible card, the DELQA
> , replaces the DEQNA.
>

the rest is me


> I was going to say VMS 4 is a better bet since 5 removed support, but
> looks like 5.4 is the last version with support. Though the MicroVAX is UP,
> so you might be better off with VMS 4 instead of VMS 5.
>
> Warner
>

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules
> > Richardson via cctalk
> > Sent: 21 January 2018 19:26
> > To: xx Classiccmp mailing list 
> > Subject: Microvax II 'primer'?
> >
> >
> > So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt)
> a
> Microvax
> > II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically it's a disaster
> (BA123
> has a
> > cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door, missing right-rear
> panel)
> > but internally it appears to be complete; board wise we have:
> >
> >M7606 - CPU
> >M7608 - 4MB ram
> >M9047 - grant continuity
> >M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
> >M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
> >M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
> >M7546 - TX50 controller
> >
> > ... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
> >
> > Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
> > knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
> > background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
> > actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I can
> use to
> > diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that point) how to actually
> use the
> > thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather than Ultrix, but I don't
> know for
> > sure). I'm wondering there aren't any handy tutorials out there,
> alongside
> > whatever DEC docs are recommended.
> >
> > * e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
> boards/drives,
> > hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required it, and then at
> least
> > running the PSU up in isolation first, but I don't know to what extent
> this
> > machine requires some logic in place for the PSU to even run.
> >
> > cheers
> >
>
>
> You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
> connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on. It doesn't
> actually do any damage and the PSU will continue to work (assuming it is
> just the filter capacitor). Check it, it is likely cracked and will soon
> go.
> If I remember correctly there are actually two of three of these (marked
> "RIFA"), it is probably a good idea just to replace them before they go.
> Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
> failed electrolytics. If  you have one of the DEC load boards you could
> connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in the
> way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.
>
> Once you have the machine up and running the easiest thing to do is to boot
> it over the DEQNA by setting up a cluster on SIMH and making your MicroVAX
> II a satellite. I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though. Go with a
> 5.x version of VMS as I believe later versions may not support the DEQNA.
>

The DEQNA is obsolete (even by Q-bus standards), troublesome
, and not supported
by VMS  since
about V5.4. A compatible card, the DELQA
, replaces the DEQNA.

I was going to say VMS 4 is a better bet since 5 removed support, but looks
like 5.4 is the last version with support. Though the MicroVAX is UP, so
you might be better off with VMS 4 instead of VMS 5.

Warner

RE: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules
> Richardson via cctalk
> Sent: 21 January 2018 19:26
> To: xx Classiccmp mailing list 
> Subject: Microvax II 'primer'?
> 
> 
> So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt) a
Microvax
> II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically it's a disaster (BA123
has a
> cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door, missing right-rear
panel)
> but internally it appears to be complete; board wise we have:
> 
>M7606 - CPU
>M7608 - 4MB ram
>M9047 - grant continuity
>M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
>M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
>M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
>M7546 - TX50 controller
> 
> ... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
> 
> Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have absolutely zero
> knowledge about these systems - so my question at this stage is what
> background reading I need to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks,
> actually hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I can
use to
> diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to that point) how to actually
use the
> thing (I'm assuming it was running VMS rather than Ultrix, but I don't
know for
> sure). I'm wondering there aren't any handy tutorials out there, alongside
> whatever DEC docs are recommended.
> 
> * e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of pulling all
boards/drives,
> hooking up a dummy load to whatever PSU rails required it, and then at
least
> running the PSU up in isolation first, but I don't know to what extent
this
> machine requires some logic in place for the PSU to even run.
> 
> cheers
> 


You might find that the filter capacitor goes up in smoke soon after you
connect the PSU to the mains, even without powering it on. It doesn't
actually do any damage and the PSU will continue to work (assuming it is
just the filter capacitor). Check it, it is likely cracked and will soon go.
If I remember correctly there are actually two of three of these (marked
"RIFA"), it is probably a good idea just to replace them before they go.
Otherwise it is certainly wise to check the PSU visually for any obviously
failed electrolytics. If  you have one of the DEC load boards you could
connect the PSU to that as a dummy load. I don't think there is much in the
way of dependency on the CPU to run the PSU.

Once you have the machine up and running the easiest thing to do is to boot
it over the DEQNA by setting up a cluster on SIMH and making your MicroVAX
II a satellite. I am not sure if 4MB is enough to do that though. Go with a
5.x version of VMS as I believe later versions may not support the DEQNA.

Regards

Rob

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Glen Slick via cctalk]

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 11:25 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, and now I hurt) a
> Microvax II from another list member yesterday. Cosmetically it's a disaster
> (BA123 has a cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door, missing
> right-rear panel) but internally it appears to be complete; board wise we
> have:
>
>   M7606 - CPU
>   M7608 - 4MB ram
>   M9047 - grant continuity
>   M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
>   M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
>   M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
>   M7546 - TX50 controller
>
> ... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).
>

First thing I would do myself is remove the NiCad battery pack from
the back of the console connector bulkhead panel and inspect the
console panel PCB for any signs of corrosion. In my experience those
old NiCad battery packs can leak and start to destroy anything near
them.

Note that the DB9 connector on the MicroVAX KA630 / 650 / 655 console
bulkhead panel is not the same as the usual PC standard.  For DEC
original cables you need a BCC08, or if you're doing MMJ cables an
H8571-B or an H8575-B MMJ adapter. Of course you can always build your
own cable.

Table 14-7 MicroVAX DB9 Pin-out
http://h41379.www4.hpe.com/faq/vmsfaq_025.html#tbl_uvdb9

Table 14-8 DECconnect MMJ Connectors and Adapters
http://h41379.www4.hpe.com/faq/vmsfaq_025.html#wires2

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/630/
MP02071_630QB_Mar85.pdf  --  Maintenance Print Set
Page 85 of the PDF, Function Selection & SLU Module (FS) for M7608 (KA630)

AZ-GM3AA-MN_uVAXII_Maint_Oct85.pdf  --  MicroVAX Maintenance Guide
Page 23 of the PDF, page 1-15, FIGURE 1-10 Backplane Grant Continuity
If this is your first time with a BA123 it is important to note that
the right most slots 1 through 4 are Q22/CD slots. Don't put any dual
wide cards in the lower CD half of slots 1 through 4. The CPU should
always be in slot 1 and the first memory card in slot 2. If you have a
second memory card it would go in slot 3. If slot 3 or slot 4 would
otherwise be empty you need an M9047 grant continuity only in the top
AB half of the slots. If any AB or CD half of slots 5 through 12 would
otherwise be empty you need an M9047 grant continuity in each half
between the CPU and the last slot that is in use.

The M7606 KA630 CPU contains 1MB. Together with the M7608 4MB memory
board you then have 5MB total. I've never tried running a system with
that little memory. If you're actually going to do anything with the
system you might look for a cheap M7609 8MB memory board to use
instead for 9MB, or use both for 13MB if you have a 3-way memory bus
cable.

If it was me I might look for a cheap M7620 KA650 or M7625 KA655 CPU
and 1 to 3 M7622 16MB memory boards. Those CPUs can use up to 64MB but
you are limited to 3 memory boards in a BA123 because there are only 4
Q22/CD slots. I maxed out my own BA123 with an M7625 KA655 CPU and 2
Dataram 32MB memory boards to get to 64MB.

-Glen

Re: Microvax II 'primer'?

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 01/21/2018 01:25 PM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:


So, I picked up (and I did just carry it into the house, 
and now I hurt) a Microvax II from another list member 
yesterday. Cosmetically it's a disaster (BA123 has a 
cracked top panel, broken wheels, missing front door, 
missing right-rear panel) but internally it appears to be 
complete; board wise we have:


  M7606 - CPU
  M7608 - 4MB ram
  M9047 - grant continuity
  M7504 - DEQNA ethernet
  M3104 - DHV11 8-port serial
  M7555 - RQDX3 disk controller
  M7546 - TX50 controller

... it's got a TK50 and hard drive (no idea of capacity).

Operational status is a complete unknown, and I have 
absolutely zero knowledge about these systems - so my 
question at this stage is what background reading I need 
to be doing in terms of pre-powerup* checks, actually 
hooking a console, if there's a suggested minimal config I 
can use to diag the CPU, and then (assuming it gets to 
that point) how to actually use the thing (I'm assuming it 
was running VMS rather than Ultrix, but I don't know for 
sure). I'm wondering there aren't any handy tutorials out 
there, alongside whatever DEC docs are recommended.


* e.g. for most machines I'd be thinking in terms of 
pulling all boards/drives, hooking up a dummy load to 
whatever PSU rails required it, and then at least running 
the PSU up in isolation first, but I don't know to what 
extent this machine requires some logic in place for the 
PSU to even run.


Well, you need to hook up a serial terminal, set the baud 
rate, and see if it gives the power-on self diagnostic sequence.
The TK50 is likely not going to work due to deteriorated 
rubber rollers and such.  Does it have a disk drive?
If not, it won't do much.  If it does, it is a bit iffy if 
the drive will spin up and unlock heads.  I have a similar 
setup here, but my SCSI disk drive died.  The CPU still 
fires up just fine - amazing for a machine I ran for 21 years.


Jon