Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

> On 7 Oct 2019, at 16:58, Ali via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> 
>> Ugh this is old and has nothing to do with what we do
>> 
>> Also is has nothing to do with what anyone is discussing.
>> 
>> The guy make exact copies of restore CDs with Dell and Microsoft
>> labels, so they were counterfeit.
> 
> In none of the stories I have read, and I admit I haven't been following this 
> closely, there has been no mention of labels being copied (i.e. logos, 
> graphics, etc.). If he did do this then yes he screwed himself royally. 
> 
> -Ali
> 


Read this. he bragged that his copies were almost indistinguishable from the 
real deal: 
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/04/25/pc_recycler_lundgren_jailed/ 


-- 
Adrian Graham
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[John Many Jars via cctalk]

Heh.  I'm a Microsoft Admin (in addition to doing all the other IT stuff
around here)... and I hate Microsoft too, but somehow I don't want to
convert the entire company to Linux (the most important system here, the
manufacturing system, runs on Linux).

I think that would make my life, not worth living.

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 at 08:13, Boris Gimbarzevsky via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Unfortunately, I have to use Windoze as most medical software is M$
> centric.  Also, started using VB in about 1991 which allowed me to
> create windows easily rather than using Hypercard on Mac.  As with
> most M$ programs, they decided to replace a perfectly functional VB6
> which allowed one to incoporate assembly code (Hardcore VB was an
> excellent resource for getting as close as one could to hardware in
> windoze) with VB.NET which is a POS.
>
> Stuck with a huge codebase of VB6 programs that I use daily and still
> haven't yet succeeded in getting VB6 programs to run under Wine on my
> Linux machines.  Wine, however does run all of my old 16 and 32 bit
> programs.  Have XP running in VirtualBox and run my old Mac code in
> BasiliskII.  Soon as get VB6 running under Linux, will say goodbye to M$
> crap.
>
> There's a huge number of old machines out there and have systems
> ranging from original XP's to 80486 based laptops which are very nice
> as dedicated machines for data acquisition.  In typical M$ fashion,
> they came out with PenWindoze in 1991 or so, when got my first tablet
> PC, and then totally changed digital ink format when they came out
> with their *new and improved* version in 2000 tablet PC's.  Have a
> number of these old machines and M$ was actually helpfull in
> providing details of their new ink format and wrote some neat drawing
> programs where one can time every stroke and alter the drawing.  Of
> course, when I asked for the initial ink format it appears that they
> "lost" it, likely because it was "too old".  Have lots of drawings
> that I did in early 1990's that I can see as long as the laptops they
> were done on continue to function, but porting it to "new and
> improved" ink format is something I don't have time for.
>
> Planned obsolesence seems to be standard M$ policy as well as the
> assumption that no person in their right mind would use hardware
> that's very ancient, like 10 years old.
>
> >On 10/07/2019 12:26 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> >>
> >>I hear you--I've been on Linux for day-to-day stuff for quite a few
> >>years, but keep a copy of XP on VirtualBox just in case.
> >>
> >>Some of the older systems that I have legacy peripherals in also require
> >>Windows, but it's all old versions.
> >>
> >>I recently convinced my lovely wife to make the leap to Linux.   She
> >>really likes it.
> >I've been using Linux since 1998 when I started using the EMC
> >program for CNC machines, which ran on a real time version of
> >Linux.  I quickly saw I could do most normal things better on Linux.
> >I now use Win XP and Win 7 for just a FEW programs which are not
> >available on Linux.  One is an old but VERY good electronic CAD
> >package (Protel 99 SE, the 99 kind of gives away the vintage!)
> >and my yearly tax filing program, which now required Win 7.
> >I run these as needed in a virtual machine.  First I used VMware,
> >but later moved to Virtual Box.
> >
> >My family used Linux when here, but they have all moved out now, one
> >daughter has a Dell laptop that I set up with Linux, and my wife
> >uses Linux and they both find it works quite well for them.
> >
> >Jon
>
>
>

-- 
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems:  "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net


"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Boris Gimbarzevsky via cctalk]

Unfortunately, I have to use Windoze as most medical software is M$ 
centric.  Also, started using VB in about 1991 which allowed me to 
create windows easily rather than using Hypercard on Mac.  As with 
most M$ programs, they decided to replace a perfectly functional VB6 
which allowed one to incoporate assembly code (Hardcore VB was an 
excellent resource for getting as close as one could to hardware in 
windoze) with VB.NET which is a POS.


Stuck with a huge codebase of VB6 programs that I use daily and still 
haven't yet succeeded in getting VB6 programs to run under Wine on my 
Linux machines.  Wine, however does run all of my old 16 and 32 bit 
programs.  Have XP running in VirtualBox and run my old Mac code in 
BasiliskII.  Soon as get VB6 running under Linux, will say goodbye to M$ crap.


There's a huge number of old machines out there and have systems 
ranging from original XP's to 80486 based laptops which are very nice 
as dedicated machines for data acquisition.  In typical M$ fashion, 
they came out with PenWindoze in 1991 or so, when got my first tablet 
PC, and then totally changed digital ink format when they came out 
with their *new and improved* version in 2000 tablet PC's.  Have a 
number of these old machines and M$ was actually helpfull in 
providing details of their new ink format and wrote some neat drawing 
programs where one can time every stroke and alter the drawing.  Of 
course, when I asked for the initial ink format it appears that they 
"lost" it, likely because it was "too old".  Have lots of drawings 
that I did in early 1990's that I can see as long as the laptops they 
were done on continue to function, but porting it to "new and 
improved" ink format is something I don't have time for.


Planned obsolesence seems to be standard M$ policy as well as the 
assumption that no person in their right mind would use hardware 
that's very ancient, like 10 years old.



On 10/07/2019 12:26 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:


I hear you--I've been on Linux for day-to-day stuff for quite a few
years, but keep a copy of XP on VirtualBox just in case.

Some of the older systems that I have legacy peripherals in also require
Windows, but it's all old versions.

I recently convinced my lovely wife to make the leap to Linux.   She
really likes it.
I've been using Linux since 1998 when I started using the EMC 
program for CNC machines, which ran on a real time version of 
Linux.  I quickly saw I could do most normal things better on Linux.
I now use Win XP and Win 7 for just a FEW programs which are not 
available on Linux.  One is an old but VERY good electronic CAD 
package (Protel 99 SE, the 99 kind of gives away the vintage!)

and my yearly tax filing program, which now required Win 7.
I run these as needed in a virtual machine.  First I used VMware, 
but later moved to Virtual Box.


My family used Linux when here, but they have all moved out now, one 
daughter has a Dell laptop that I set up with Linux, and my wife 
uses Linux and they both find it works quite well for them.


Jon

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 10/07/2019 12:26 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:


I hear you--I've been on Linux for day-to-day stuff for quite a few
years, but keep a copy of XP on VirtualBox just in case.

Some of the older systems that I have legacy peripherals in also require
Windows, but it's all old versions.

I recently convinced my lovely wife to make the leap to Linux.   She
really likes it.

I've been using Linux since 1998 when I started using the 
EMC program for CNC machines, which ran on a real time 
version of Linux.  I quickly saw I could do most normal 
things better on Linux.
I now use Win XP and Win 7 for just a FEW programs which are 
not available on Linux.  One is an old but VERY good 
electronic CAD package (Protel 99 SE, the 99 kind of gives 
away the vintage!)
and my yearly tax filing program, which now required Win 7.  
I run these as needed in a virtual machine.  First I used 
VMware, but later moved to Virtual Box.


My family used Linux when here, but they have all moved out 
now, one daughter has a Dell laptop that I set up with 
Linux, and my wife uses Linux and they both find it works 
quite well for them.


Jon

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Richard Pope via cctalk]

Hello all,
The problem as I see it are all of the sheep that buy 
pre-configured boxes from the likes of Dell and other such providers. 
They don't get the OS disc. They only receive restore discs. Most of 
these users only know how to turn on the power and operate the keyboard 
and/or mouse. They have no understanding of how the system works just 
like most people who drive have no understanding of how an automobile works.
I have never bought a pre-configured box. I always built my own. I 
started with a VIC-20 that I add a lot of extras to. I then went to a 
C-64, a C-128, an Amiga 1000, Amiga 2000, Amiga 4000 and Amiga 4000T. I 
modified all of these systems in lots of ways. I finally gave in because 
of game availability and built my first PC clone and installed Win-95 on 
it. I also had MS-Dos installed on it. I continued to use my A4000T in 
conjunction with the Win 95 box. I networked my A4000T box with the Win 
95 box using ARCNet. I also went the upgrade route with MS. WinNT, 
Win2000, WinXP, and now Win 8.1 Pro. I have also dabbled in Linux but 
the games always brought me back to Windoze.
So I have some knowledge and ability concerning computers and how 
they work where most users have almost zero knowledge and ability.

GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 10/7/2019 10:28 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:

Its been a while but same game and I'm not a player.

I just don't run windows.  I jumped that ship back in 06 when
burned on NT.  Since then its Linux.  If you play in the swamp
of M$ then your run all the risks and costs.  Its just not good
enough to be worth the pain.  Any new machine I might buy must
be bare or come with Linux and in the past Asus did a few that
I still run.  If not I default to ITX/miniITX boards/boxes as
they are easily gotten bare.

It also reminded me of Micro$soft Roads, a few of us likely
remember that one too.

Wait till M$ AI on your car decides some roads do not meet the
terms of service and refuses to go there.

Since schools and Uni's all seem to be M$ based maybe the terms
of service are in effect there.

And tubes... I'm like one of the few here that knows how to design
with them because I did.

Allison


On 10/7/19 10:54 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:

downloaded for free is meaningless to the actual case.  Not saying I
agree with the law they got him on as there should be some exceptions
but facts are the facts.  Btw. This was the first version of the story
I read that mentioned that Microsoft sold replacement restore disks to
computer refurbish shops themselves.

I thought Microsoft would refer you to Dell, and Dell would be the ones
to sell them.

Had the discs not looked like the original restore discs then he might
of gotten away with it? Trademark infringement and all. Fake Louie.

It's stupid. It really is a mess trying to restore the OS when the hard
drive dies on machines that ship with recovery partitions and no media.

I mean, the fact the restore media is on a CD/DVD just says that it's
for old crusty computers.

New machines have the license keys baked into the BIOS, the Windows tax
is built in.

But the Netflix Bill Gates docuemntary says he is cool so the young
people trust Microsoft. And of course the beautiful machines Apple was
making kind of went to hell as they focus on telephones, which are
declining.

Pretty much trapped.

 - Ethan


Now if I made a copy of Raiders for someone else or copied it off a
free TV transmission and sold DVDs of that, it would be a crime since
there still is a way to buy a replacement DVD or watch/DVR it on free
TV when it happens to be on.

But that is different as Windows is protected by a software key, so the
restore disc is useless without it.


Cheers,
Corey

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 7, 2019, at 7:15 AM, John Foust via cctalk
 wrote:

At 05:51 AM 10/7/2019, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote:

Must be the USA PC World. In the UK they would have tried to sell
you an extended warranty as well which is really just an insurance
policy
.. but the question is why PC World. Don't US universities have
student discount stores?

University student discount stores?  You mean those state-sponsored
computer shops that put all the private computer shops out of business?

Only 1.2 :-), as for example in a nearby (10K student) university town,
there are no longer any private computer repair shops that a non-student
can go to as far as I can tell, so I'm actually picking up more business
because I'm one town away.

- John


--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[alan--- via cctalk]

On 2019-10-07 08:49, corey cohen via cctalk wrote:

So for example I own a DVD of raiders of the lost ark, I’m allowed to 
make a backup for myself.


Just beware I don't believe there has been a DMCA challenge that 
validates your claim yet.  Fair-use is always subjective.  And truth 
often drops to the bottom of reasons for prosecutions.  I can't afford 
your bail bond Corey :(  So be careful and don't call Evan as a 
character witness!


"Initially, federal prosecutors valued the discs at $299 each..."  That 
wasn't because of un-willful ignorance.  It is not in the prosecutions' 
best interest to counter a weak claim that bolsters their case - even an 
erroneous one.  That's the defense's job.  Most prosecutors inflate 
initial damage claims to untruthful absurd levels because there is very 
little procedural opportunity for the defense to challenge.  And doing 
so will slow down a trial bearing considerable cost.  A common way 
prosecutors pressure pleas - literally starve them out.  It's a bit 
unsavory at best and unethical at worst; but legal.


We have a great criminal justice system.  But it's run by people who can 
be flawed  - or motivated by politics such as their own elections.  And 
it predicates success on both sides opposing at full force with equal 
resources.  That is not the reality in nearly all proceedings.   My view 
refined significantly when I stood in a court room on the other side 
potentially facing 9 years on new computer related statutes that no one 
understood - including my lawyer.


-A

RE: Nuke Redmond!

[Ali via cctalk]

> "In 2013, federal authorities intercepted shipments of 28,000 restore
> discs that Lundgren had manufactured in China and sent to his sales
> partner in Florida. The discs had labels nearly identical to the discs
> provided by Dell for its computers and had the Windows and Dell logos.
> “If I had just written ‘Eric’s Restore Disc’ on there, it would have
> been fine,” Lundgren said."
> 

 No duh! Why would you fake the Dell/MS Logos? How does that help the consumer, 
who is so clueless they can't get restore disk on their own, vs. a label that 
says "Restore Disc for Dell Optiplex Blah Blah"

> 
> I think he should not have gone to jail, this is a civil matter.
> However what he did was wrong and it badly affected the recycling
> business as a whole. Now other people are not wanting to persue
> recycled computers

I am not sure about that. It does put some more scrutiny on the business and 
frankly keeps the unnecessary "creativity" out. As this is a copyright 
infringement I believe there are both civil and criminal penalties so jail is 
possible (and was given). Of course the sanity of that is a whole other 
argument.

-Ali

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 10/7/19 8:28 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:
> Its been a while but same game and I'm not a player.
> 
> I just don't run windows.  I jumped that ship back in 06 when
> burned on NT.  Since then its Linux.  If you play in the swamp
> of M$ then your run all the risks and costs.  Its just not good
> enough to be worth the pain.  Any new machine I might buy must
> be bare or come with Linux and in the past Asus did a few that
> I still run.  If not I default to ITX/miniITX boards/boxes as
> they are easily gotten bare.

I hear you--I've been on Linux for day-to-day stuff for quite a few
years, but keep a copy of XP on VirtualBox just in case.

Some of the older systems that I have legacy peripherals in also require
Windows, but it's all old versions.

I recently convinced my lovely wife to make the leap to Linux.   She
really likes it.

--Chuck

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Christian Liendo via cctalk]

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 11:58 AM Ali  wrote:
> In none of the stories I have read, and I admit I haven't been following this 
> closely, there has been no mention of labels being copied (i.e. logos, 
> graphics, etc.). If he did do this then yes he screwed himself royally.
>
> -Ali
>

https://mashable.com/2018/06/07/microsoft-right-to-repair-eric-lundgren-pr-nightmare/

>From the article:


"One thing Microsoft and Lundgren do agree on: it was wrong for him to
put a Dell logo on the discs, which he said he did to make the discs'
purpose less confusing to consumers."

"What I’m guilty of is printing a logo on a worthless piece of
plastic," Lundgren said. "But that’s a civil issue," he said, and
worth a fine, not jail time."


https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-microsoft-restore-disc-20180215-story.html

>From the article:

"In 2013, federal authorities intercepted shipments of 28,000 restore
discs that Lundgren had manufactured in China and sent to his sales
partner in Florida. The discs had labels nearly identical to the discs
provided by Dell for its computers and had the Windows and Dell logos.
“If I had just written ‘Eric’s Restore Disc’ on there, it would have
been fine,” Lundgren said."


I think he should not have gone to jail, this is a civil matter.
However what he did was wrong and it badly affected the recycling
business as a whole. Now other people are not wanting to persue
recycled computers

RE: Nuke Redmond!

[Ali via cctalk]

> Ugh this is old and has nothing to do with what we do
> 
> Also is has nothing to do with what anyone is discussing.
> 
> The guy make exact copies of restore CDs with Dell and Microsoft
> labels, so they were counterfeit.

In none of the stories I have read, and I admit I haven't been following this 
closely, there has been no mention of labels being copied (i.e. logos, 
graphics, etc.). If he did do this then yes he screwed himself royally. 

-Ali

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Christian Liendo via cctalk]

Ugh this is old and has nothing to do with what we do

Also is has nothing to do with what anyone is discussing.

The guy make exact copies of restore CDs with Dell and Microsoft
labels, so they were counterfeit.

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[allison via cctalk]

Its been a while but same game and I'm not a player.

I just don't run windows.  I jumped that ship back in 06 when
burned on NT.  Since then its Linux.  If you play in the swamp
of M$ then your run all the risks and costs.  Its just not good
enough to be worth the pain.  Any new machine I might buy must
be bare or come with Linux and in the past Asus did a few that
I still run.  If not I default to ITX/miniITX boards/boxes as
they are easily gotten bare.

It also reminded me of Micro$soft Roads, a few of us likely
remember that one too.

Wait till M$ AI on your car decides some roads do not meet the
terms of service and refuses to go there.

Since schools and Uni's all seem to be M$ based maybe the terms
of service are in effect there.

And tubes... I'm like one of the few here that knows how to design
with them because I did.

Allison


On 10/7/19 10:54 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:
>> downloaded for free is meaningless to the actual case.  Not saying I
>> agree with the law they got him on as there should be some exceptions
>> but facts are the facts.  Btw. This was the first version of the story
>> I read that mentioned that Microsoft sold replacement restore disks to
>> computer refurbish shops themselves.
> 
> I thought Microsoft would refer you to Dell, and Dell would be the ones
> to sell them.
> 
> Had the discs not looked like the original restore discs then he might
> of gotten away with it? Trademark infringement and all. Fake Louie.
> 
> It's stupid. It really is a mess trying to restore the OS when the hard
> drive dies on machines that ship with recovery partitions and no media.
> 
> I mean, the fact the restore media is on a CD/DVD just says that it's
> for old crusty computers.
> 
> New machines have the license keys baked into the BIOS, the Windows tax
> is built in.
> 
> But the Netflix Bill Gates docuemntary says he is cool so the young
> people trust Microsoft. And of course the beautiful machines Apple was
> making kind of went to hell as they focus on telephones, which are
> declining.
> 
> Pretty much trapped.
> 
>     - Ethan
> 
>> Now if I made a copy of Raiders for someone else or copied it off a
>> free TV transmission and sold DVDs of that, it would be a crime since
>> there still is a way to buy a replacement DVD or watch/DVR it on free
>> TV when it happens to be on.
> 
> But that is different as Windows is protected by a software key, so the
> restore disc is useless without it.
> 
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Corey
>>
>> corey cohen
>> uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 7:15 AM, John Foust via cctalk
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> At 05:51 AM 10/7/2019, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote:
 Must be the USA PC World. In the UK they would have tried to sell
 you an extended warranty as well which is really just an insurance
 policy
 .. but the question is why PC World. Don't US universities have
 student discount stores?
>>>
>>> University student discount stores?  You mean those state-sponsored
>>> computer shops that put all the private computer shops out of business?
>>>
>>> Only 1.2 :-), as for example in a nearby (10K student) university town,
>>> there are no longer any private computer repair shops that a non-student
>>> can go to as far as I can tell, so I'm actually picking up more business
>>> because I'm one town away.
>>>
>>> - John
>>>
>>
> 
> -- 
> : Ethan O'Toole
> 

RE: Nuke Redmond!

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

original license holder being the purchaser. If he had given the discs 
away with a refurbished system, even if he worked the price into the 
system price, with a license I think he would have been fine.


US Customs looks for items with trademarks of certain protected brands and 
then you get in trouble.


If they were shipped via DHL there probably wouldn't have been the same 
issue. ;-)


- Ethan


--
: Ethan O'Toole

RE: Nuke Redmond!

[Ali via cctalk]

> I think what screwed the guy selling the 25 cent computer disks is that
> Microsoft, according to the article ,sells $25 replacement restore
> disks.  So technically he is counterfeiting a current Microsoft
> product, the physical restore disk they sell.  

I am not sure about the veracity of that. I.E. If you call Microsoft or Dell 
and tell them you have a 486 PC you bought 30 years ago with Win 3.1 license 
they would be willing to provide you with a restore disks at any price. That 
aside - his biggest mistake was CHARGING for the discs, even if it was a 
nominal 25 cents, especially if he could not verify original license holder 
being the purchaser. If he had given the discs away with a refurbished system, 
even if he worked the price into the system price, with a license I think he 
would have been fine. 

-Ali

p.s. I am not a lawyer I only play one online! :)

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[John Many Jars via cctalk]

I'm glad retirement is now only 15 years away... no make that 17, soon to
be 20?


On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 16:13, jwest--- via cctalk 
wrote:

> I'm fairly sure that the (near) future will be OSaaS, and you will be
> paying monthly for your Windows Vi...  er... OS. Not just your office
> productivity and LOB software.
>
>
>

-- 
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems:  "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net


"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift

RE: Nuke Redmond!

[jwest--- via cctalk]

I'm fairly sure that the (near) future will be OSaaS, and you will be paying 
monthly for your Windows Vi...  er... OS. Not just your office productivity and 
LOB software.

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

downloaded for free is meaningless to the actual case.  Not saying I 
agree with the law they got him on as there should be some exceptions 
but facts are the facts.  Btw. This was the first version of the story I 
read that mentioned that Microsoft sold replacement restore disks to 
computer refurbish shops themselves.


I thought Microsoft would refer you to Dell, and Dell would be the ones to 
sell them.


Had the discs not looked like the original restore discs then he might of 
gotten away with it? Trademark infringement and all. Fake Louie.


It's stupid. It really is a mess trying to restore the OS when the hard 
drive dies on machines that ship with recovery partitions and no media.


I mean, the fact the restore media is on a CD/DVD just says that it's for 
old crusty computers.


New machines have the license keys baked into the BIOS, the Windows tax is 
built in.


But the Netflix Bill Gates docuemntary says he is cool so the young people 
trust Microsoft. And of course the beautiful machines Apple was making 
kind of went to hell as they focus on telephones, which are declining.


Pretty much trapped.

- Ethan

Now if I made a copy of Raiders for someone else or copied it off a free 
TV transmission and sold DVDs of that, it would be a crime since there 
still is a way to buy a replacement DVD or watch/DVR it on free TV when 
it happens to be on.


But that is different as Windows is protected by a software key, so the 
restore disc is useless without it.




Cheers,
Corey

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 7, 2019, at 7:15 AM, John Foust via cctalk  wrote:

At 05:51 AM 10/7/2019, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote:

Must be the USA PC World. In the UK they would have tried to sell you an 
extended warranty as well which is really just an insurance policy
.. but the question is why PC World. Don't US universities have student 
discount stores?


University student discount stores?  You mean those state-sponsored
computer shops that put all the private computer shops out of business?

Only 1.2 :-), as for example in a nearby (10K student) university town,
there are no longer any private computer repair shops that a non-student
can go to as far as I can tell, so I'm actually picking up more business
because I'm one town away.

- John





--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[corey cohen via cctalk]

Ok the original topic.  

I think what screwed the guy selling the 25 cent computer disks is that 
Microsoft, according to the article ,sells $25 replacement restore disks.  So 
technically he is counterfeiting a current Microsoft product, the physical 
restore disk they sell.  The whole argument that there were original disks 
provided with the system or the software can be downloaded for free is 
meaningless to the actual case.  Not saying I agree with the law they got him 
on as there should be some exceptions but facts are the facts.  Btw. This was 
the first version of the story I read that mentioned that Microsoft sold 
replacement restore disks to computer refurbish shops themselves.  

To put this in another way.   You are allowed to make a personal backup your 
own stuff.   So for example I own a DVD of raiders of the lost ark, I’m allowed 
to make a backup for myself.  If I didn’t make a backup or lost the disk but 
had the packaging/case, you can order replacement disks by contacting paramount 
by providing your original packaging or damaged DVD.  I have done this in the 
past. 

Now if I made a copy of Raiders for someone else or copied it off a free TV 
transmission and sold DVDs of that, it would be a crime since there still is a 
way to buy a replacement DVD or watch/DVR it on free TV when it happens to be 
on.  

Cheers,
Corey

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 7:15 AM, John Foust via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> At 05:51 AM 10/7/2019, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote:
>> Must be the USA PC World. In the UK they would have tried to sell you an 
>> extended warranty as well which is really just an insurance policy
>> .. but the question is why PC World. Don't US universities have student 
>> discount stores?
> 
> University student discount stores?  You mean those state-sponsored
> computer shops that put all the private computer shops out of business?
> 
> Only 1.2 :-), as for example in a nearby (10K student) university town, 
> there are no longer any private computer repair shops that a non-student 
> can go to as far as I can tell, so I'm actually picking up more business 
> because I'm one town away.
> 
> - John
> 

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Doug Jackson via cctalk]

It is.

He ended up serving 15 months in prison for making rescue disks that were
based on downloadable software that required licence keys that the PCs that
he refurbished already had.

It's a complex.case and the judge didn't understand the actual value of the
media which was zero.

Sadly technically he did breach copyright.

So lesson to learn.

Stay away from software giants who have bigger bankrolls than you do.



On Mon, 7 Oct. 2019, 8:33 pm Dave Wade via cctalk, 
wrote:

> Note:- This storey is a year old...
>
> Dave
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Jeffrey S.
> Worley
> > via cctalk
> > Sent: 07 October 2019 04:24
> > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> > Subject: Nuke Redmond!
> >
> > A fellow who was putting the air in "Microsoft Tire" (c) is going to
> prison.
> > Microsoft claims that the air they give free with the tire is not free.
> You can
> > download the air and install the air and use the air, but noone can help
> you do
> > it or they will spend 15months in federal prison and pay 3/4 of a
> million beans
> > in damages for helping you and charging nothing for it but a quarter for
> the
> > electricity it cost to put the air in.
> >
> >
> https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microsoft-copyright-
> > 20180426-
> > story.html?fbclid=IwAR3v6MDIUWtqyUxcupT7YQOaX5a7bzrKZKAZWKQFYkdzbg
> > 9xvWhvRVkSuq4
> >
> > Jeff
>
>
>

RE: Nuke Redmond!

[John Foust via cctalk]

At 05:51 AM 10/7/2019, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote:
>Must be the USA PC World. In the UK they would have tried to sell you an 
>extended warranty as well which is really just an insurance policy
>.. but the question is why PC World. Don't US universities have student 
>discount stores?

University student discount stores?  You mean those state-sponsored
computer shops that put all the private computer shops out of business?

Only 1.2 :-), as for example in a nearby (10K student) university town, 
there are no longer any private computer repair shops that a non-student 
can go to as far as I can tell, so I'm actually picking up more business 
because I'm one town away.

- John

RE: Nuke Redmond!

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

Must be the USA PC World. In the UK they would have tried to sell you an 
extended warranty as well which is really just an insurance policy
.. but the question is why PC World. Don't US universities have student 
discount stores?

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of John Many Jars
> via cctalk
> Sent: 07 October 2019 09:31
> To: Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk 
> Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond!
> 
> Ha. I was recently in PC World (gross) buying my son a laptop for University.
> 
> They tried to sell him (me) a whole load of crap he didn't need.  They tried 
> to
> sell me an Office 365 subscription that he gets for free from the Uni.  They
> tried to sell me A/V software you can get free.  They tried to sell me 1TB of
> cloud storage he doesn't need.  They tried to sell me Windows 10 restore
> media, for FORTY POUNDS.
> 
> Amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 04:24, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> > A fellow who was putting the air in "Microsoft Tire" (c) is going to
> > prison.  Microsoft claims that the air they give free with the tire is
> > not free.  You can download the air and install the air and use the
> > air, but noone can help you do it or they will spend 15months in
> > federal prison and pay 3/4 of a million beans in damages for helping
> > you and charging nothing for it but a quarter for the electricity it
> > cost to put the air in.
> >
> >
> > https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microsoft-copyrig
> > ht-20180426-
> story.html?fbclid=IwAR3v6MDIUWtqyUxcupT7YQOaX5a7bzrKZKAZWK
> > QFYkdzbg9xvWhvRVkSuq4
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems:  "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
> Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
> 
> 
> "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that
> the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift

RE: Nuke Redmond!

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

Note:- This storey is a year old...

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Jeffrey S. Worley
> via cctalk
> Sent: 07 October 2019 04:24
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Nuke Redmond!
> 
> A fellow who was putting the air in "Microsoft Tire" (c) is going to prison.
> Microsoft claims that the air they give free with the tire is not free.  You 
> can
> download the air and install the air and use the air, but noone can help you 
> do
> it or they will spend 15months in federal prison and pay 3/4 of a million 
> beans
> in damages for helping you and charging nothing for it but a quarter for the
> electricity it cost to put the air in.
> 
> https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microsoft-copyright-
> 20180426-
> story.html?fbclid=IwAR3v6MDIUWtqyUxcupT7YQOaX5a7bzrKZKAZWKQFYkdzbg
> 9xvWhvRVkSuq4
> 
> Jeff

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[John Many Jars via cctalk]

Ha. I was recently in PC World (gross) buying my son a laptop for
University.

They tried to sell him (me) a whole load of crap he didn't need.  They
tried to sell me an Office 365 subscription that he gets for free from the
Uni.  They tried to sell me A/V software you can get free.  They tried to
sell me 1TB of cloud storage he doesn't need.  They tried to sell me
Windows 10 restore media, for FORTY POUNDS.

Amazing.



On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 at 04:24, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> A fellow who was putting the air in "Microsoft Tire" (c) is going to
> prison.  Microsoft claims that the air they give free with the tire is
> not free.  You can download the air and install the air and use the
> air, but noone can help you do it or they will spend 15months in
> federal prison and pay 3/4 of a million beans in damages for helping
> you and charging nothing for it but a quarter for the electricity it
> cost to put the air in.
>
>
> https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microsoft-copyright-20180426-story.html?fbclid=IwAR3v6MDIUWtqyUxcupT7YQOaX5a7bzrKZKAZWKQFYkdzbg9xvWhvRVkSuq4
>
> Jeff
>
>

-- 
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems:  "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net


"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 10/6/19 10:40 PM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 05:24:23AM +, null via cctalk wrote:

This list is really going down the tubes.


ITYM "Integrated Circuits".  Tubes is before the time of most of the
folks on this list, I think.

(ok folks, it's a joke ...)


But I thought that the Internet was a "series of tubes", so, yesy, this 
list really is going down the tubes.


alan



mcl

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[Mark Linimon via cctalk]

On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 05:24:23AM +, null via cctalk wrote:
> This list is really going down the tubes.

ITYM "Integrated Circuits".  Tubes is before the time of most of the
folks on this list, I think.

(ok folks, it's a joke ...)

mcl

Re: Nuke Redmond!

[null via cctalk]

*sigh*

This list is really going down the tubes.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 03:24, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> A fellow who was putting the air in "Microsoft Tire" (c) is going to
> prison.  Microsoft claims that the air they give free with the tire is
> not free.  You can download the air and install the air and use the
> air, but noone can help you do it or they will spend 15months in
> federal prison and pay 3/4 of a million beans in damages for helping
> you and charging nothing for it but a quarter for the electricity it
> cost to put the air in.
> 
> https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microsoft-copyright-20180426-story.html?fbclid=IwAR3v6MDIUWtqyUxcupT7YQOaX5a7bzrKZKAZWKQFYkdzbg9xvWhvRVkSuq4
> 
> Jeff
>