Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
I have seen LTO around a lot, with fancy pants usb. For forward compatibility it is probably the best bet it would seem. Though I might get open tape for just because it looks cool, though I might get one for media, rather than raw data storage. -H On 24 July 2017 17:03:29 BST, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > >On 7/24/17 8:46 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > >> The problem with Exabyte drives is they seemed to have a short shelf >life. > >Most of the rubber parts have failed in the dozens of Exabytes I have. > >LTO is the direction the world has been going for a while. They have >about three >generations of backwards compatibility, so that sets your maximum time >for media >migration. > >There is going to be a problem though if you really need to stick with >SCSI, since >the transfer rates can't be handled off of a modern LTO drive.
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
On 7/24/17 8:46 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > The problem with Exabyte drives is they seemed to have a short shelf life. Most of the rubber parts have failed in the dozens of Exabytes I have. LTO is the direction the world has been going for a while. They have about three generations of backwards compatibility, so that sets your maximum time for media migration. There is going to be a problem though if you really need to stick with SCSI, since the transfer rates can't be handled off of a modern LTO drive.
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
On 07/23/2017 10:35 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: There have been many tape formats that have gone in and out of fashion. In the late 80s and early 90s, 8mm videotape-type Exabyte carts were very popular--when have you last seen one? 30 seconds ago. I guess I should clean the Exabyte carts off my dining room table. The problem with Exabyte drives is they seemed to have a short shelf life. If powered on 24/7, they would fail about once a year, and require a several hundred $ overhaul at a 3rd party rebuild facility. There was quite an industry of people rebuilding these drives, possibly using consumer video parts. The electronics in the drive also would fail fairly often. If left powered off, it seemed like the failure rate was not much better. We used them as data transfer drives, so ran the HECK out of them at work (tape loaded and moving something like 100 hours a week.) Jon
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
What kind of data volume are we talking about, and what kind of budget? I personally use LTO-5 for my backups (1.5 TB raw capacity), and have no difficulty finding tapes. On 7/24/17, 2:51 AM, "cctalk on behalf of Henry Bond via cctalk" wrote: >Hi Gang, > >I have need to make backups, and if you are going to do something, do it >the proper way. Feel like I'm preaching to the choir here mind. > >My issue is finding tape to fit any drive I might buy or choosing an >appropriate tape library device which has tape available to purchase with >relative ease. > >Any pointers, suggestions or anecdotes as always is most appreciated. > > >-H
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
If you think there's a way I can do backups onto open reel tape and have it last 30 years +, I've been looking for an excuse to get one of those. -H On 24 July 2017 06:20:35 BST, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >On 07/23/2017 09:05 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > >> 30 seconds ago. I guess I should clean the Exabyte carts off my >dining room >> table. > >Heck, I've still got lots of DDS1 and 2 carts, DC1000 mini carts, and a >whole box of 8mm Exabytes. Various QIC carts, Travan, etc. > >Did someone say Syqest? Hey, I've still got a new Sparq drive here, as >well as Jaz, Bernoulli, etc. > >There's also various flavors of MO disks as well as good old CD and >DVD. > >Of course, I'm ignoring the crates of 1/2" open-reel tape sitting >around >here, some of which are in excess of 50 years old and still quite >readable. > >--Chuck
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
Sony AIT and DDS have been my most popular eBay finds so far, I am blessed with SCSI equipment, even if it is a SS10. My data needs aren't huge, I did see those 1TB tapes and wondered how long it would take my sparcstation to push a terabyte, might be unfair. Seems the resilience of tape is hard pressed to be beaten. -H On 24 July 2017 04:56:35 BST, TeoZ via cctalk wrote: >The major 8mm tape drives I know about are SONY AIT > >-Original Message- >From: Glen Slick via cctalk >Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:35 PM >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available > >On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < >cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >> There have been many tape formats that have gone in and out of >fashion. >> In the late 80s and early 90s, 8mm videotape-type Exabyte carts were >> very popular--when have you last seen one? >> > >30 seconds ago. I guess I should clean the Exabyte carts off my dining >room >table. > >--- >This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
On 07/23/2017 09:05 PM, devin davison via cctalk wrote: > 30 seconds ago. I guess I should clean the Exabyte carts off my dining room > table. Heck, I've still got lots of DDS1 and 2 carts, DC1000 mini carts, and a whole box of 8mm Exabytes. Various QIC carts, Travan, etc. Did someone say Syqest? Hey, I've still got a new Sparq drive here, as well as Jaz, Bernoulli, etc. There's also various flavors of MO disks as well as good old CD and DVD. Of course, I'm ignoring the crates of 1/2" open-reel tape sitting around here, some of which are in excess of 50 years old and still quite readable. --Chuck
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
my sgi onyx just came with a 8 mm drive. i picked up some tapes cheap, they are pretty limited in capacity. i have had read and write issues even after using a cleaning tape and a new box of tapes. my ibm as 400 used them too similar issues. kept complaining the drive was dirty even after running a cleaning tape. i would not reccomend 8 mm. guess it is time to invest in some lto drives and tapes. On Jul 23, 2017 11:35 PM, "Glen Slick via cctalk" wrote: On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > There have been many tape formats that have gone in and out of fashion. > In the late 80s and early 90s, 8mm videotape-type Exabyte carts were > very popular--when have you last seen one? > 30 seconds ago. I guess I should clean the Exabyte carts off my dining room table.
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
LTO is what I use for large archives. Tapes and drives are plentiful and cheap. LTO-1 is 100/200GB, LTO-2 is 200/400GB (native compressed). DLT is older and lower capacity but cheap, Super DLT is newer and higher capacity and expensive. I also play around with DDS 1-4, AIT 1 and 2, dabble with Tandberg SLR tapes and even some QIC/Travan drives for real old gear. Linux/Unix probably has drivers for everything but other OS and proprietary backup software would not. IF you just want to move data and have SCSI you can also play around with Jazz, Syquest, MO drives. -Original Message- From: devin davison via cctalk Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:33 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; Henry Bond Subject: Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available I have quite a bit of sgi gear and have been moving quite a bit of data from a linux machine to my sgi gear via tape recently. dat dds4 and dat 72 drives work good and the tapes are easy to come by. i have many dell branded dat drives that work without any special configuration. for larger capacity tapes i use a dell dlt drive. you have to make some tweaks to a file to make the drive use its full capacity but it works well too. i trust dlt tapes over dat tapes. i do not make multiple backups to the same tape. the tapes degrade with use. i make a backup. store the tape, and only use that tape for future restore operations. so i would reccomend dlt drives if you can get a compatible drive and a box of new tapes at a good price. On Jul 23, 2017 8:51 PM, "Henry Bond via cctalk" wrote: Hi Gang, I have need to make backups, and if you are going to do something, do it the proper way. Feel like I'm preaching to the choir here mind. My issue is finding tape to fit any drive I might buy or choosing an appropriate tape library device which has tape available to purchase with relative ease. Any pointers, suggestions or anecdotes as always is most appreciated. -H --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
The major 8mm tape drives I know about are SONY AIT -Original Message- From: Glen Slick via cctalk Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:35 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: There have been many tape formats that have gone in and out of fashion. In the late 80s and early 90s, 8mm videotape-type Exabyte carts were very popular--when have you last seen one? 30 seconds ago. I guess I should clean the Exabyte carts off my dining room table. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 8:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > There have been many tape formats that have gone in and out of fashion. > In the late 80s and early 90s, 8mm videotape-type Exabyte carts were > very popular--when have you last seen one? > 30 seconds ago. I guess I should clean the Exabyte carts off my dining room table.
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
On 07/23/2017 05:51 PM, Henry Bond via cctalk wrote: > I have need to make backups, and if you are going to do something, do it the > proper way. Feel like I'm preaching to the choir here mind. > > My issue is finding tape to fit any drive I might buy or choosing an > appropriate tape library device which has tape available to purchase with > relative ease. > > Any pointers, suggestions or anecdotes as always is most appreciated. The good news is that there has been an ANSI standard for SCSI tape devices for a long time. There have been many tape formats that have gone in and out of fashion. In the late 80s and early 90s, 8mm videotape-type Exabyte carts were very popular--when have you last seen one? DDS hasn't been "DAT" for a very long time--and pretty much, after DDS-4, has been the province of HP. Given that HP has canceled furture development after DAT 320, I'd consider it to be an obsolescent medium. DLT has been around since the TK50, with DLT-S4A being the latest (2007) version. It's quite rugged and used by a bunch of people. LTO is by far the most popular tape medium and future improvements are scheduled. LTO has one interesting feature (since LTO-3): a WORM cartridge as an option--that is, it's write once, read many times. Regardless, plan to regenerate your backup data every 10-15 years if you want to avoid running a dinosaur farm. FWIW, --Chuck
Re: Scsi tape and compatible tapes that are available
I have quite a bit of sgi gear and have been moving quite a bit of data from a linux machine to my sgi gear via tape recently. dat dds4 and dat 72 drives work good and the tapes are easy to come by. i have many dell branded dat drives that work without any special configuration. for larger capacity tapes i use a dell dlt drive. you have to make some tweaks to a file to make the drive use its full capacity but it works well too. i trust dlt tapes over dat tapes. i do not make multiple backups to the same tape. the tapes degrade with use. i make a backup. store the tape, and only use that tape for future restore operations. so i would reccomend dlt drives if you can get a compatible drive and a box of new tapes at a good price. On Jul 23, 2017 8:51 PM, "Henry Bond via cctalk" wrote: Hi Gang, I have need to make backups, and if you are going to do something, do it the proper way. Feel like I'm preaching to the choir here mind. My issue is finding tape to fit any drive I might buy or choosing an appropriate tape library device which has tape available to purchase with relative ease. Any pointers, suggestions or anecdotes as always is most appreciated. -H