Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
Thanks! Marc > On May 2, 2020, at 4:49 AM, David Collins via cctech > wrote: > > I've pulled together details of the controller used with an HP2748 paper > tape reader to dump a bunch of tapes from the HP Computer Museum's collection > with the help of J. David Bryan. > > The details are at this link.. > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KaJkVgYzPusJN9tLf4IaSIa104fvLhUs > > The unit and Arduino code are both pretty rough and ready and I'm sure can be > improved - but they served their purpose! > > Hope it is of use to others... > > Now to get those new tape files published... > > David Collins > www.hpmuseum.net > > > -Original Message- > From: David Collins > Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2020 7:34 AM > To: J. David Bryan ; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes > > Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and > schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was indeed > designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could be adapted > to any similar reader. > > David Collins > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 29 Apr 2020, at 6:33 am, J. David Bryan via cctech >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 17:56, Tony Duell via cctech wrote: >>> >>> The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of un[i]t. >> >> David Collins of the HP Computer Museum and I just recently completed >> reading some 200+ paper tapes from the museum collection. He used a >> 2748 coupled with a custom Arduino-based interface to produce >> plain-text files containing an octal representation of the tape bytes. >> We passed these through a small program to convert them to binary >> files and a second program to verify checksums of those tapes >> containing relocatable or absolute binary object data. The resulting >> files can be used as is with the HP 2100 SIMH simulator or could be >> punched back into physical paper tapes if desired. >> >> -- Dave >> >
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
I've got a rebadged Remex someplace but it is intended for fan fold. It takes manual watching to deal with spooled tapes. It is a high speed optical with parallel. On spooled stuff, I'd set it up on a table with it hanging over the edge a little. Then I'd have a piece of scrap plywood as a separator for input and output piles. Being high speed, it can make a real mess if the output gets tangles with the input. Dwight From: cctech on behalf of Bill Degnan via cctech Sent: Saturday, May 2, 2020 7:35 AM To: davidkcolli...@gmail.com ; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes On Sat, May 2, 2020, 7:49 AM David Collins via cctech wrote: > I've pulled together details of the controller used with an HP2748 paper > tape reader to dump a bunch of tapes from the HP Computer Museum's > collection with the help of J. David Bryan. > > The details are at this link.. > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KaJkVgYzPusJN9tLf4IaSIa104fvLhUs > > The unit and Arduino code are both pretty rough and ready and I'm sure can > be improved - but they served their purpose! > > Hope it is of use to others... > > Now to get those new tape files published... > > David Collins > www.hpmuseum.net<http://www.hpmuseum.net> > > > -Original Message- > From: David Collins > Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2020 7:34 AM > To: J. David Bryan ; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts < > cct...@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes > > Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and > schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was > indeed designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could > be adapted to any similar reader. > > David Collins > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 29 Apr 2020, at 6:33 am, J. David Bryan via cctech < > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 17:56, Tony Duell via cctech wrote: > > > >> The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of un[i]t. > > > > David Collins of the HP Computer Museum and I just recently completed > > reading some 200+ paper tapes from the museum collection. He used a > > 2748 coupled with a custom Arduino-based interface to produce > > plain-text files containing an octal representation of the tape bytes. > > We passed these through a small program to convert them to binary > > files and a second program to verify checksums of those tapes > > containing relocatable or absolute binary object data. The resulting > > files can be used as is with the HP 2100 SIMH simulator or could be > > punched back into physical paper tapes if desired. > > > > -- Dave > > > I have the s100 board Jon Chapman (glitch) created to interface with his HP 2100 reader. Not sure if anyone here woukd have use for it. Anyone use the Decitek 2910 or HS1000 portsble model (you can buy from decitek.com) for archiving 1 inch papertapes? The 2910's are available new, they come with older windows/ DOS software, memory buffer, rs232 port, slows to 110b. For the volume of tapes I have, getting something new is appealing for reliabikity-sake. Bill >
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
On Sat, May 2, 2020, 7:49 AM David Collins via cctech wrote: > I've pulled together details of the controller used with an HP2748 paper > tape reader to dump a bunch of tapes from the HP Computer Museum's > collection with the help of J. David Bryan. > > The details are at this link.. > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KaJkVgYzPusJN9tLf4IaSIa104fvLhUs > > The unit and Arduino code are both pretty rough and ready and I'm sure can > be improved - but they served their purpose! > > Hope it is of use to others... > > Now to get those new tape files published... > > David Collins > www.hpmuseum.net > > > -Original Message- > From: David Collins > Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2020 7:34 AM > To: J. David Bryan ; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts < > cct...@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes > > Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and > schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was > indeed designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could > be adapted to any similar reader. > > David Collins > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 29 Apr 2020, at 6:33 am, J. David Bryan via cctech < > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 17:56, Tony Duell via cctech wrote: > > > >> The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of un[i]t. > > > > David Collins of the HP Computer Museum and I just recently completed > > reading some 200+ paper tapes from the museum collection. He used a > > 2748 coupled with a custom Arduino-based interface to produce > > plain-text files containing an octal representation of the tape bytes. > > We passed these through a small program to convert them to binary > > files and a second program to verify checksums of those tapes > > containing relocatable or absolute binary object data. The resulting > > files can be used as is with the HP 2100 SIMH simulator or could be > > punched back into physical paper tapes if desired. > > > > -- Dave > > > I have the s100 board Jon Chapman (glitch) created to interface with his HP 2100 reader. Not sure if anyone here woukd have use for it. Anyone use the Decitek 2910 or HS1000 portsble model (you can buy from decitek.com) for archiving 1 inch papertapes? The 2910's are available new, they come with older windows/ DOS software, memory buffer, rs232 port, slows to 110b. For the volume of tapes I have, getting something new is appealing for reliabikity-sake. Bill >
RE: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
I've pulled together details of the controller used with an HP2748 paper tape reader to dump a bunch of tapes from the HP Computer Museum's collection with the help of J. David Bryan. The details are at this link.. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KaJkVgYzPusJN9tLf4IaSIa104fvLhUs The unit and Arduino code are both pretty rough and ready and I'm sure can be improved - but they served their purpose! Hope it is of use to others... Now to get those new tape files published... David Collins www.hpmuseum.net -Original Message- From: David Collins Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2020 7:34 AM To: J. David Bryan ; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was indeed designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could be adapted to any similar reader. David Collins Sent from my iPad > On 29 Apr 2020, at 6:33 am, J. David Bryan via cctech > wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 17:56, Tony Duell via cctech wrote: > >> The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of un[i]t. > > David Collins of the HP Computer Museum and I just recently completed > reading some 200+ paper tapes from the museum collection. He used a > 2748 coupled with a custom Arduino-based interface to produce > plain-text files containing an octal representation of the tape bytes. > We passed these through a small program to convert them to binary > files and a second program to verify checksums of those tapes > containing relocatable or absolute binary object data. The resulting > files can be used as is with the HP 2100 SIMH simulator or could be > punched back into physical paper tapes if desired. > > -- Dave >
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 12:22 AM steven--- via cctech wrote: > Bill said > > Hi - COVID project I have been attempting to read some old Honeywell > > DDP-516 papertapes using the OP-80A or Teletype reader but it's > inefficient > > and I don't want to damage the tapes. Does anyone have a reliable > > papertape reader for sale, or recommend one currently out there on Ebay, > > > I have an EECO MT-82 (manual on bitsavers), and it's ok but pulls the tape > through in short > sharp bursts rather than a continuous smooth action, even on the lowest > baud rate. > I have the serial version, there is a separate I/O board for serial and > parallel. For > some reason the right-hand spindle always runs, perhaps the driver > transistor logic has some > problem. I don't use the spindles anyway as I have no reels (I am > designing 3D printed ones) > but the spindle speed is way too fast for old tapes anyway, I think. > > > With the OP-80A you could try rigging up a small motor to pull the tapes > through at slow > speed, say a LEGO Technic M size motor driving LEGO tires through a simple > gearbox. And build > up some sort of tape guide from LEGO as well. > > Steve > Thanks. I have been playing with it today. When I read tapes using a 486 pc DOS 6.22, Dunfield's ptr program...I see the light blink as I carefully pull a test tape through the OP-80A but when I read the output in a hex editor all I see are C4 or 04 or whatever. No data. Trying variations. I may switch to sol80 tomorrow or even an altair with PIO, but then I run into issues capturing the data. Bill >
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
I have several, but can only get to a few RS232 readers. If you are interested I'll try to get the model numbers later this week. I also have several REMEX interfaces probably Unibus, possibly a Omnibus. Paul On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:21 PM Tony Duell via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:34 PM David Collins via cctech > wrote: > > > > Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and > schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was > indeed designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could > be adapted to any similar reader. > > > I'd be interested in seeing it. There's an HP2748 in front of me right > now so I might even be able to use it, although I have never managed > to figure out Arduino stuff... > > -tony >
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
For those of you who have used Dunfield's PTR program and the OP-80A, what PC did you use? I am attempting with a Compaq 486. I apparently have to add resistors to some of the lines to control voltage from the normally outbound parallel port. I may switch to the SOL-20 and use that computer's parallel port instead. I just want raw tape values, I can convert or do whatever with it, but accuracy is the key for me. Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I also brought home an Arduino from the shop to see if I can get that to work. Bill On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 5:34 PM David Collins via cctech < cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and > schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was > indeed designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could > be adapted to any similar reader. > > David Collins > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 29 Apr 2020, at 6:33 am, J. David Bryan via cctech < > cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 17:56, Tony Duell via cctech wrote: > > > >> The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of un[i]t. > > > > David Collins of the HP Computer Museum and I just recently completed > > reading some 200+ paper tapes from the museum collection. He used a > 2748 > > coupled with a custom Arduino-based interface to produce plain-text > files > > containing an octal representation of the tape bytes. We passed these > > through a small program to convert them to binary files and a second > > program to verify checksums of those tapes containing relocatable or > > absolute binary object data. The resulting files can be used as is with > > the HP 2100 SIMH simulator or could be punched back into physical paper > > tapes if desired. > > > > -- Dave > > >
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
Bill said > Hi - COVID project I have been attempting to read some old Honeywell > DDP-516 papertapes using the OP-80A or Teletype reader but it's inefficient > and I don't want to damage the tapes. Does anyone have a reliable > papertape reader for sale, or recommend one currently out there on Ebay, I have an EECO MT-82 (manual on bitsavers), and it's ok but pulls the tape through in short sharp bursts rather than a continuous smooth action, even on the lowest baud rate. I have the serial version, there is a separate I/O board for serial and parallel. For some reason the right-hand spindle always runs, perhaps the driver transistor logic has some problem. I don't use the spindles anyway as I have no reels (I am designing 3D printed ones) but the spindle speed is way too fast for old tapes anyway, I think. With the OP-80A you could try rigging up a small motor to pull the tapes through at slow speed, say a LEGO Technic M size motor driving LEGO tires through a simple gearbox. And build up some sort of tape guide from LEGO as well. Steve.
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 10:34 PM David Collins via cctech wrote: > > Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and > schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was indeed > designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could be adapted > to any similar reader. I'd be interested in seeing it. There's an HP2748 in front of me right now so I might even be able to use it, although I have never managed to figure out Arduino stuff... -tony
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 17:56, Tony Duell via cctech wrote: > The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of un[i]t. David Collins of the HP Computer Museum and I just recently completed reading some 200+ paper tapes from the museum collection. He used a 2748 coupled with a custom Arduino-based interface to produce plain-text files containing an octal representation of the tape bytes. We passed these through a small program to convert them to binary files and a second program to verify checksums of those tapes containing relocatable or absolute binary object data. The resulting files can be used as is with the HP 2100 SIMH simulator or could be punched back into physical paper tapes if desired. -- Dave
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
Further to Dave’s post below, I’m happy to share the Arduino code and schematic if anyone has a suitable reader and wants to try it. It was indeed designed to interface to the HP2748 but is pretty simple and could be adapted to any similar reader. David Collins Sent from my iPad > On 29 Apr 2020, at 6:33 am, J. David Bryan via cctech > wrote: > > On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 17:56, Tony Duell via cctech wrote: > >> The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of un[i]t. > > David Collins of the HP Computer Museum and I just recently completed > reading some 200+ paper tapes from the museum collection. He used a 2748 > coupled with a custom Arduino-based interface to produce plain-text files > containing an octal representation of the tape bytes. We passed these > through a small program to convert them to binary files and a second > program to verify checksums of those tapes containing relocatable or > absolute binary object data. The resulting files can be used as is with > the HP 2100 SIMH simulator or could be punched back into physical paper > tapes if desired. > > -- Dave >
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 5:01 PM Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: > > Hi - COVID project I have been attempting to read some old Honeywell > DDP-516 papertapes using the OP-80A or Teletype reader but it's inefficient > and I don't want to damage the tapes. Does anyone have a reliable > papertape reader for sale, or recommend one currently out there on Ebay, > for the purpose of archiving papertapes of any kind safely and reliably. I > have a reasonable budget. I have a lot of tapes that need to be archived, > so I'd want one that I can interface with to capture into TAP files or what > I would call a raw dump listing of the data in 8-bit Hex. MITS, SWTPc, > Z80 stuf, PDP 8, PDP 11, Honeywell, etc. All the paper tape readers I've seen simply give you the raw 8 bit bytes (hole = 1, no hole = 0) off the tape. It's up to you to turn that into whatever sort of file you want. There are 3 main types of paper tape reader : Mechanical. Like the one in the Teletype Model 33 ASR. The tape is fed by a sprocket wheel and the holes are sensed by pins that come up through the tape (called 'Peckers' in the manuals for Creed teleprinters...). These readers are slow and hard on the tape. The only time I'd use one would be to demonstrate how they work and why I don't normally use them Sprocket fed optical. The tape is moved by a sprocket working on the feed holes, but the data holes are sensed by a light source and an array of optical sensors. Much kinder to the tape (in general if the tape jams the sprocket holes get ripped but they can be repaired, the data holes are undamaged) and faster. Often the feed holes are also sensed optically to provide the timing reference. Speeds between 30cps and 120 cps are typical. Capstan fed optical. By far the kindest to the tapes. The tape is fed by a (smooth) capstan and pinch roller. The holes are sensed by a light source and array of optical sensors, including the feed holes which provide the timing reference. The HP2748 is a common-ish example of this type of unt. I personally like (and use) the UK-built Trend readers (HSR500, a bidirectional 500cps unit and UDR700, a unidirectional machine that runs at 700cps). The nice part of the Trend design is that they have 2 sensors on the feed track 2.5 characters apart. The data strobe occurs when the one in line with the data hole sensors is brighter (by a certain amount) than the other one. A weighted mean of the values from those 2 sensors gives the threshold for the data hole sensors. The result is that they will read just about anything. I am pretty sure the manual for the HP2748 is on the Australian HP museum site. I offered the manuals for the Trend units a couple of years back but nobody was interested then, they are too large for me to send now (only when lockdown is lifted and the local library reopens). I doubt you'll find a Trend reader (actually I don't think there was a 60Hz mains version of the UDR700 although there seems to have been one for the HSR500) but the HP2748 might turn up if you're lucky. -tony
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
> On Apr 28, 2020, at 12:01 PM, Bill Degnan via cctech > wrote: > > Hi - COVID project I have been attempting to read some old Honeywell > DDP-516 papertapes using the OP-80A or Teletype reader but it's inefficient > and I don't want to damage the tapes. Does anyone have a reliable > papertape reader for sale, or recommend one currently out there on Ebay, > for the purpose of archiving papertapes of any kind safely and reliably. I > have a reasonable budget. I have a lot of tapes that need to be archived, > so I'd want one that I can interface with to capture into TAP files or what > I would call a raw dump listing of the data in 8-bit Hex. MITS, SWTPc, > Z80 stuf, PDP 8, PDP 11, Honeywell, etc. > > End goal is to load tapes into simH, PDPGUI, Altair/S-100, textfiles to > display tapes. I want to be able to view the tape as it would be in Intel > or Motorola format, etc. What does everyone else do? > > For example: > S1131C102C20DEBD19217E167DBD185FD6259626A3 > S1131C209B27C900D70297037E167DBD1999DE282C > S1131C30DF2C9C022742D6029603902DD22C2A1C1C > S1131C40D62C962DBD015ADF2CD6029603BD015A1F > S1131C509C2C2724A600BD02270820F4D602960354 > S1131C60BD015ADF2ED62C962DBD015A9C2E270875 > S1131C70A600BD02270820F47E167DDEDBDF027E8F > S1071C80167DC9 > S903FC > > Thanks for any advice. > > Bill I don't have a reader, or tapes that I need to read, but I've had some conversations with people who do. Tape readers are not that hard to find but then you have to worry about interfacing. I've seen a few with RS232 output, that would be easy (just tie them to an RS232->USB adapter). The concern I can see with many of them is that they tend to be built for speed, not for gentle handling. So you might see stepper motor drive, or fast spinning capstans plus brake blocks. Readers that can do 1000 cps and stop before the next character are impressive but not quite what we want here. Stepper motors are not quite as rough but still they accelerate and decelerate the tape for every frame, and typically they pull on the feed holes with a sprocket wheel. If I needed to build one I'd probably construct a tape guide, adjustable to different tape widths (minimally 5, 7 or 8 track but perhaps 6 and 2 as well just for grins). Add the usual photocells. For transport, either just a driven takeup reel, or a capstan type drive. In either case, drive with a servomotor that's ramped up slowly and goes no faster than 100 cps or so. Then just capture the analog output signals from the 9 photocells and do the data recovery in software from those waveforms. For the data format, my answer would be to capture each tape frame as 8 bits of binary data; decoding is then a further post-processing step. paul
RE: [EXTERNAL] Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
Bill, I have one of the models (not sure which one would have to climb around in the warehouse of these http://www.baudot.net/teletype/M43.htm From memory, it looks like the M3450. Welcome to borrow it! But it could also be one of the others on this page Bob -Original Message- From: cctech On Behalf Of Bill Degnan via cctech Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 12:01 PM To: cctech Subject: [EXTERNAL] Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes Hi - COVID project I have been attempting to read some old Honeywell DDP-516 papertapes using the OP-80A or Teletype reader but it's inefficient and I don't want to damage the tapes. Does anyone have a reliable papertape reader for sale, or recommend one currently out there on Ebay, for the purpose of archiving papertapes of any kind safely and reliably. I have a reasonable budget. I have a lot of tapes that need to be archived, so I'd want one that I can interface with to capture into TAP files or what I would call a raw dump listing of the data in 8-bit Hex. MITS, SWTPc, Z80 stuf, PDP 8, PDP 11, Honeywell, etc. End goal is to load tapes into simH, PDPGUI, Altair/S-100, textfiles to display tapes. I want to be able to view the tape as it would be in Intel or Motorola format, etc. What does everyone else do? For example: S1131C102C20DEBD19217E167DBD185FD6259626A3 S1131C209B27C900D70297037E167DBD1999DE282C S1131C30DF2C9C022742D6029603902DD22C2A1C1C S1131C40D62C962DBD015ADF2CD6029603BD015A1F S1131C509C2C2724A600BD02270820F4D602960354 S1131C60BD015ADF2ED62C962DBD015A9C2E270875 S1131C70A600BD02270820F47E167DDEDBDF027E8F S1071C80167DC9 S903FC Thanks for any advice. Bill
Re: Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
On 04/28/2020 11:01 AM, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: Hi - COVID project I have been attempting to read some old Honeywell DDP-516 papertapes using the OP-80A or Teletype reader but it's inefficient and I don't want to damage the tapes. Does anyone have a reliable papertape reader for sale I have a slightly damaged EECO reader with take-up reels. The damage is one of the spring arms is snapped. It could be repaired fairly easily, or used without the reels. it has a 12-V parallel interface, apparently called RS-408. It is from an Allen-Bradley CNC control computer. I could let it go for $50 plus shipping. it is a fairly large rack-mount unit. Jon
Wanted, Papertape Reader for Archiving Tapes
Hi - COVID project I have been attempting to read some old Honeywell DDP-516 papertapes using the OP-80A or Teletype reader but it's inefficient and I don't want to damage the tapes. Does anyone have a reliable papertape reader for sale, or recommend one currently out there on Ebay, for the purpose of archiving papertapes of any kind safely and reliably. I have a reasonable budget. I have a lot of tapes that need to be archived, so I'd want one that I can interface with to capture into TAP files or what I would call a raw dump listing of the data in 8-bit Hex. MITS, SWTPc, Z80 stuf, PDP 8, PDP 11, Honeywell, etc. End goal is to load tapes into simH, PDPGUI, Altair/S-100, textfiles to display tapes. I want to be able to view the tape as it would be in Intel or Motorola format, etc. What does everyone else do? For example: S1131C102C20DEBD19217E167DBD185FD6259626A3 S1131C209B27C900D70297037E167DBD1999DE282C S1131C30DF2C9C022742D6029603902DD22C2A1C1C S1131C40D62C962DBD015ADF2CD6029603BD015A1F S1131C509C2C2724A600BD02270820F4D602960354 S1131C60BD015ADF2ED62C962DBD015A9C2E270875 S1131C70A600BD02270820F47E167DDEDBDF027E8F S1071C80167DC9 S903FC Thanks for any advice. Bill
