Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board

2021-07-08 Thread Bob McMahon via Cerowrt-devel
--- Begin Message --- Thanks very much for this response. I need to dig in a bit more for sure. iperf 2 will give every UDP packet's OWD (if the clocks are sync'd) and will also provide TCP write to read latencies, both supported in histogram forms. So that's raw samples so to speak. I'm hooking

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Abandoning Window-based CC Considered Harmful (was Re: Bechtolschiem)

2021-07-08 Thread David P. Reed
Keep It Simple, Stupid. That's a classic architectural principle that still applies. Unfortunately folks who only think hardware want to add features to hardware, but don't study the actual real world version of the problem. IMO, and it's based on 50 years of experience in network and

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board

2021-07-08 Thread David P. Reed
I will tell you flat out that the arrival time distribution assumption made by Little's Lemma that allows "estimation of queue depth" is totally unreasonable on ANY Internet in practice. The assumption is a Poisson Arrival Process. In reality, traffic arrivals in real internet applications

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Abandoning Window-based CC Considered Harmful (was Re: Bechtolschiem)

2021-07-08 Thread Jonathan Morton
> On 8 Jul, 2021, at 4:29 pm, Matt Mathis via Bloat > wrote: > > That said, it is also true that multi-stream BBR behavior is quite > complicated and needs more queue space than single stream. This complicates > the story around the traditional workaround of using multiple streams to >

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Abandoning Window-based CC Considered Harmful (was Re: [Bloat] Bechtolschiem)

2021-07-08 Thread Bless, Roland (TM)
Hi Matt, On 08.07.21 at 15:29 Matt Mathis wrote: I think there is something missing from your model.    I just scanned your paper and noticed that you made no mention of rounding errors, nor some details around the drain phase timing,   The implementation guarantees that the actual average

[Cerowrt-devel] Abandoning Window-based CC Considered Harmful (was Re: [Bloat] Bechtolschiem)

2021-07-08 Thread Bless, Roland (TM)
Hi Matt, [sorry for the late reply, overlooked this one] please, see comments inline. On 02.07.21 at 21:46 Matt Mathis via Bloat wrote: The argument is absolutely correct for Reno, CUBIC and all other self-clocked protocols.  One of the core assumptions in Jacobson88, was that the clock for

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Abandoning Window-based CC Considered Harmful (was Re: [Bloat] Bechtolschiem)

2021-07-08 Thread Bless, Roland (TM)
Hi Matt, On 08.07.21 at 00:38 Matt Mathis wrote: Actually BBR does have a window based backup, which normally only comes into play during load spikes and at very short RTTs.   It defaults to 2*minRTT*maxBW, which is twice the steady state window in it's normal paced mode. So yes, BBR

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Abandoning Window-based CC Considered Harmful (was Re: Bechtolschiem)

2021-07-08 Thread Neal Cardwell via Cerowrt-devel
--- Begin Message --- On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:25 AM Bless, Roland (TM) wrote: > It seems that in BBRv2 there are many more mechanisms present > that try to control the amount of inflight data more tightly and the new > "cap" > is at 1.25 BDP. > To clarify, the BBRv2 cwnd cap is not 1.25*BDP. If

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Abandoning Window-based CC Considered Harmful (was Re: [Bloat] Bechtolschiem)

2021-07-08 Thread Matt Mathis via Cerowrt-devel
--- Begin Message --- I think there is something missing from your model.I just scanned your paper and noticed that you made no mention of rounding errors, nor some details around the drain phase timing, The implementation guarantees that the actual average rate across the combined BW probe