Re: [CF-metadata] 'months since' and 'years since' time units

2018-10-19 Thread Jim Biard
Chris, I see what you are saying about category, yet it is metric. Within the domain of months and years (without days, leap days, etc), it is completely possible to do exact math, just as we can within the domain of seconds, minutes, hours, and days. The problem arises when you try to

Re: [CF-metadata] 'months since' and 'years since' time units

2018-10-19 Thread Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
I remember this coming up on this list a while back. Yes, the concept of e.g. monthly averaged data is useful. But in that case, a “month” is really a category, not a continuous time variable. So we need a different way if describing it than a time access with units of month... -CHB Sent from

Re: [CF-metadata] 'months since' and 'years since' time units

2018-10-19 Thread David Blodgett
Dear All, I'd like to reiterate what I pointed out yesterday. The CDM and EDAL support all of what's being talked about here by accepting that udunits coordinate time is one of three ways to handle date/time coordinates. They also support a calendar-based coordinate that behaves much like

Re: [CF-metadata] 'months since' and 'years since' time units

2018-10-19 Thread Jim Biard
I like how you have described the issue, Chris. Using month in anything except a 360-day calendar (assuming the month is defined correctly for that calendar) produces erroneous results if you try to do anything but math that remains in those units - such as convert a month count to a date.

Re: [CF-metadata] 'months since' and 'years since' time units

2018-10-19 Thread Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
Calendars are a mess— both because the earth’s rotation is not human-frendly, and because of human legacy. So we need to accept that, and not try to use calendars as though they are logical units for time. I like to think about it this way: there are time operations: “this much time has passed”,

Re: [CF-metadata] ice_sheet/land_ice confusion

2018-10-19 Thread Jonathan Gregory
Dear Martin I agree that snow is a specific form of ice, and that we have and need many standard names which refer to it. I'm questioning only the need for the area type of ice_on_land, because I'm wondering in which circumstances one needs to consider the area occupied by all conceivable forms

Re: [CF-metadata] 'months since' and 'years since' time units

2018-10-19 Thread Bärring Lars
Dear all, I agree with Jonathan's wish for a more well-behaved Earth in the planetary system :-) However, awaiting this I think that we have two issues before us: 1. The fact that different datasets fundamentally are based on different length of a year, while Udunits defines a year to be the

Re: [CF-metadata] ice_sheet/land_ice confusion

2018-10-19 Thread Martin Juckes - UKRI STFC
Dear Karl, Jonathan, I appreciate where you are coming from with the assertions that snow is a form of ice, but it ain't necessarily so, at least not in the current CF names list. Karl has made the point that there are multiple issues to consider when comparing usage in area types with usage