To be blunt and i've been on Plum since i think adam invited me ages
past, I really dig the concept and cannot fault it for what its
achieved.
I do however hold back in reservation as simply put: I don't have the
time or energy to inherit something ontop of a language that has its
own set of
Went back to my simple, basic architecture and felt much better.
Don't you feel like an QUOTE ass /QUOTE? ;-)
--
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From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Don't you feel like an QUOTE ass /QUOTE? ;-)
It is better to keep quiet and be considered a fool than to speak out and
prove that.
~|
Find out how CFTicket can increase
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-Original Message-
From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon?
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What bugs me with FB is that it takes hours just to figure
out
Has anyone done a comparison between Plum and Adalon? I'd be interested
to see how they compared.
--
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/
http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include stdjoke.h
Mmmm...
Plum uses Fusebox too?..
I tried to run Plum on my machine and i miss a dll called mscoree.dll
someone can send me this dll?.
-Mensaje original-
De: Damien McKenna [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Febrero de 2005 11:49
Para: CF-Talk
Asunto: Plum vs
You need to download the .NET Framework for Plum to run.
-Original Message-
From: David Manriquez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 17 February 2005 15:01
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon?
Mmmm...
Plum uses Fusebox too?..
I tried to run Plum on my machine and i miss a dll
You need to install the .NET framework
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=316091
HTH,
--
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On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. - www.CoolFusion.com
inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - The Award-winning, Intelligent Mail Server
PrismAV - Virus scanning for ColdFusion
Plum uses Fusebox too?..
Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does.
I tried to run Plum on my machine and i miss a dll called mscoree.dll
someone can send me this dll?.
You don't have the .NET Framework V1.1 installed.
If you ever have a problem with Plum, use our
Has anyone done a comparison between Plum and Adalon? I'd be interested
to see how they compared.
Adalon is a great tool that I think everyone should check out to see if it
fits their needs. However, Plum and Adalon are two very different tools.
If my memory serves me correctly, Adalon is a
From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does.
Maybe so but the following for Fusebox is increasing daily... what are the
selling points for Plum that would pull someone like myself from Fusebox
over to Plum or maybe not even over
PLUM is a framework in it's self whilst Adalon is simply a tool for generating
a fusebox application by generating stub files etc and writing the circuit
files for you.
From my understanding PLUM went a whole heap further than just writing stub
files for you,
they're completely different
From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does.
Maybe so but the following for Fusebox is increasing daily... what are the
selling points for Plum that would pull someone like myself from Fusebox
over to Plum or maybe not even
-Original Message-
From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
what are the selling points for Plum that would pull someone like
myself
from Fusebox over to Plum or maybe not even over to but rather in
addition
to?
I guess another way of asking this would be:
How does
-Original Message-
From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Plum is the most comprehensive ColdFusion development tool and source
code
generator ever built, hands down. To tell you everything that Plum
does
would take up too much space for this email, so we prepared this:
Subject: Re: Plum vs Adalon?
From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does.
Maybe so but the following for Fusebox is increasing daily... what are the
selling points for Plum that would pull someone like myself from Fusebox
over
I may be off in some details, but it really doesn't.
From what I've seen Plum is basically a code generator. There's not
much of a framework to it. I diddled with it for a little while, and
the 'framework' is more a set of custom tags that make it easier to
build forms, do validation,
If my memory serves me correctly, Adalon is a design tool that generates an
empty set of Fusebox files that have no real functionality -- you handcraft
all that yourself, if I'm not mistaken.
Adalon does much more than generate Fusebox stubs. In fact, that's
just the Fusebox plug-in for
From what I've seen Plum is basically a code generator. There's not
much of a framework to it. I diddled with it for a little while, and
the 'framework' is more a set of custom tags that make it easier to
build forms, do validation, master/detail pages, etc. Maybe I'm
missing something,
How does the Plum framework compare to Fusebox 4.1 or Mach-II in terms
of functionality and extensibility of the core framework (excluding all
the extra modules, I'm thinking of the core)?
Plum does quite a bit more in its core framework than either Fusebox or
Mach-ii.
The best way for
Plum uses Fusebox too?..
Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does.
This is like comparing apples and oranges. Fusebox is a framework for
organizing your application into logical segments, especially if you
use it in an MVC manner. As far as I'm concerned, Fusebox is a
What is your (or your users') experience regarding migrating existing
Fusebox (v3) projects to Plum? I've got several fairly expansive
Fusebox3 applications that I've been considering re-doing anyway; I was
thinking of using Fusebox 4 but Plum is intriguing.
We don't suggest that people try
* ColdFusion MX Master Class
* Advanced Development with CFMX and SQL Server 2000
- Original Message -
From: Joe Rinehart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: Plum vs Adalon?
Plum uses Fusebox too?..
Plum has
But do take the time to really look through Plum's
documentation to see all that it *can* do for you.
If you don't have the time to download and install Plum, you
can view Plum's documentation online:
http://www.productivityenhancement.com/support/plumhelp/plumhelp.htm
One nice thing
PM
Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon?
But do take the time to really look through Plum's
documentation to see all that it *can* do for you.
If you don't have the time to download and install Plum, you
can view Plum's documentation online:
http://www.productivityenhancement.com/support
As far as I'm concerned, Fusebox is a much
more comprehensive framework that Plum, in that Fusebox provides a
structure for your application.
May be,... but what if the structure is completely uncomprehensive?
What bugs me with FB is that it takes hours just to figure out in WHICH %$/?
I can imagine that it would be tough for folks to commit to reading 400
pages of documentation to 'get' Plum :P
-Original Message-
From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:04 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon?
But do take the time
Yeap, I for one already have a ton of other things on my todo reading list.
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:15:36 -0500, Calvin Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I can imagine that it would be tough for folks to commit to reading 400
pages of documentation to 'get' Plum :P
PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:16 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon?
I can imagine that it would be tough for folks to commit to reading 400
pages of documentation to 'get' Plum :P
-Original Message-
From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What bugs me with FB is that it takes hours just to figure
out in WHICH %$/? template is the piece of code you need to
modify. So if maintenance easiness was the concern, they
totally missed the point.
This surprises me as maintenance in
: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon?
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What bugs me with FB is that it takes hours just to figure
out in WHICH %$/? template is the piece of code you need
finding out where an issue is takes about 2 seconds.
If the issue causes an error message, may be.
But for just an upgrade or an enhancement, is is 10 times more
complicated than it should.
--
___
REUSE CODE! Use custom tags;
See
I have never had a problem finding any errors in any
FB code I have written.
I always had problems find errors in my code, since I make no error ;-)
As for maintenance, it depends on if you inherited the site
It is my case indeed, but not because the programmer was dummy, just because
doing
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If the issue causes an error message, may be.
But for just an upgrade or an enhancement, is is 10 times
more complicated than it should.
Again, I disagree. If the FB app is structured properly and you can read
down through a circuit file, it
Are you strongly familar with FB apps? I am not at all, just
wondering if this is a case where if someone was then they could
follow it easily.
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:50:35 -0500, Claude Schneegans
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is my case indeed, but not because the programmer was dummy, just
You can't use Plum in conjunction with Fusebox or any other
framework,as there would be no need. There is nothing that
another framework could add to what Plum already has.
That statement nicely sums up a couple of resons why I will probably
never use Plum. In its current form at
Adam,
I'm not trying to attack Plum. If I was, I'd say something silly and
offensive. My observations come after using Plum, trying it out, and
taking some of its guts apart.
The way it works,
what it contains, how applications are organized, and how Plum applications
are written.
The way
Plum does too much in the way of generating application code
and too little in the way of providing powerful APIs that can be extended...
Ok, so Spike can say in one sentence what takes me a couple of
paragraphs to try to hint at.
--
For Tabs, Trees, and more, use the jComponents:
You're missing 90% of Plum, Joe.
Adam, you're very much underestimating what I've done with Plum. I
wouldn't talk about it if I hadn't looked at it in great detail. I've
probably looked at the docs more extensively than most of your users,
examined the custom tag library, used tools like the
As it is, every generated page comes out
This code is Copyright (c) 2004 by Productivity Enhancement, Inc.
Surely this cannot be true!
From my observation and in regards to past threads on Plum, it seems
like they still cannot accurately say who they are targeting with this
product. It surely
I would agree with everything Joe says here.
Plum certainly has it's place in the market. How big that place is I
don't know, but I'm sure a lot of people will find it useful to them.
Having written a few frameworks myself and used quite a few others I
know what works for me and a fundamental
This is a complete aside, but shouldn't the owner of generated code
be the developer using it? As it is, every generated page comes out
This code is Copyright (c) 2004 by Productivity Enhancement, Inc.
I'm not sure if you meant to do this, but the legal implications of
this are enough to bar
As it is, every generated page comes out
This code is Copyright (c) 2004 by Productivity Enhancement, Inc.
Surely this cannot be true!
Oversight on our part. The copyright should just appear in the pre-fabbed
framework code. I don't think we have to get the Hague involved on this one
;)
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:13:51 -0500, Joe Rinehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is a complete aside, but shouldn't the owner of generated code
be the developer using it? As it is, every generated page comes out
This code is Copyright (c) 2004 by Productivity Enhancement, Inc.
I'm not sure if
If the FB app is structured properly and you can read
It is not the fact that the app is structured properly or not; As a matter of
fact,
I think it is.
The problem is with the concept of the structure itself: it is sometimes 10
times more complicated
than the whole application itself.
- too
just wondering if this is a case where if someone was then they could
follow it easily.
This may very well be true, and this is exactly the trouble.
A good CF application, I'd say ANY application written in ANY language,
should be easily followed by any one who is good enough in the language.
I understand your second point, whether it is valid or not is probably
in the eye of the beholders.
As far as Plum from what I gathered in the descriptions, it actually
would be a well loved tool around here. Not necessarily by me, but by
some of the people in this group.
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
This may very well be true, and this is exactly the trouble.
A good CF application, I'd say ANY application written in ANY
language, should be easily followed by any one who is good
enough in the language.
I don't think you will find
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- too many files are included,
Are you looking at FB4? The only included files there come from the circuit
files or the parsed fuseactions which you do not directly access anyway
so not sure how this is a valid point.
- templates names
- when you look at the source code, find what's wrong, it
takes hours to figure out which actual template the code comes from.
Fusedocs exist for a reason.
That could stem from one of two things: a poorly structured FB application
or an uninformed developer in regards to FB.
Right on,
You can't discredit an application or the ability to easily follow
it just bacause you are not in
favor of the approach.
The question is not being in favor or not. The question is that the approach
claims
it will make the application easier to follow, and I find the application much
harder
now when i think of fusebox i think of myspace.com and thats gotta be the worse
performing cfm app i have ever seen.
From: Joe Rinehart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:01 PM
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Subject: Re: Plum vs
Fusebox is a tool, like a hammer. Any tool is only
worth the hands of its holder. With a hammer, it's just as easy to
accidently destroy your thumb as it is to hammer in a nail.
C'mon, fuses, circuits, now hammers,... enough with metaphors, periphases and
parabolas ;-)
If FB is like a hammer,
The question is not being in favor or not. The question is that the approach
claims
it will make the application easier to follow, and I find the application
much harder to follow.
Ok, it is because the FB application was not properly structured, but isn't
FB supposed
to precisely
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The question is not being in favor or not. The question is
that the approach claims it will make the application easier
to follow, and I find the application much harder to follow.
Ok, it is because the FB application was not properly
application, but nor am I sold on Fusebox as a solution I
would specifically choose.
However, I would choose Fusebox over no framework/methodology.
- Calvin
-Original Message-
From: Spike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:33 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Plum vs
I also tried Plum during the beta phase.
I didn't like it...then again, I don't like lobster either. (and in
both cases, I don't get all the hype)
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:23:26 -0500, Joe Rinehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You're missing 90% of Plum, Joe.
Adam, you're very much
9 years, none of which touch on FB... so how can you justify making comments
about the Framework?
I just said I was upgrading a FB application. So at least I have an example.
Does it take years to understand and know the principles of FB?
Then how can it help?
--
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:53:51 -0500, Adam Churvis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The best way for everyone to assess this is to download and install Plum,
then thorooughly read the Plum documentation.
Assuming you are running a Windows machine with .NET installed...
--
Sean A Corfield --
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:23:26 -0500, Joe Rinehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Because my opinion doesn't match
yours is no reason to call me ignorant or uninformed.
I have to say that Adam's habit of jumping on anyone who dares to
criticize Plum is getting a bit tiring. I made some comments about
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I just said I was upgrading a FB application. So at least I
have an example.
Does it take years to understand and know the principles of FB?
Then how can it help?
Well it would seem that after 9 years of coding, when you encountered
I think you are just being an ass
Sorry, but if you need insults to make your point, I won't follow you in
that direction.
--
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(Please send any spam to this
Follow the gourd!
No, Follow the sandal!
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Message:
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sorry, but if you need insults to make your point, I won't
follow you in
that direction.
Ok Claude, no problem. Good luck.
~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and
@houseoffusion.com
Subject: Re: Plum vs Adalon?
I think you are just being an ass
Sorry, but if you need insults to make your point, I won't follow you in
that direction.
--
___
REUSE CODE! Use custom tags;
See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags
We are all individuals.
I'm not!
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:59:35 +0800, James Holmes
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Follow the gourd!
No, Follow the sandal!
~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time
PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Plum vs Adalon?
now when i think of fusebox i think of myspace.com and thats
gotta be the worse performing cfm app i have ever seen.
~|
Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk
: RE: Plum vs Adalon?
Any web application will be slow on a 486 ;-)
Honestly speaking, in today's world of 2ghz machines being considered
*low* end I don't think that speed should be the concern it was back
when servers were 200MHz. We run lots of Fusebox 3 apps on our server
(dual 1ghz xeon
.
From: Damien McKenna [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:45 PM
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon?
Any web application will be slow on a 486 ;-)
Honestly speaking, in today's world of 2ghz machines being
Damn, I made the mistake of reading this one from the bottom up!
I messed with FB a little, and it messed my mind up. Went back to my simple,
basic architecture and felt much better.
~|
Logware (www.logware.us): a new and
i dunno, go to myspace.com and do a few searches, that fusebox app rarely
runs right (or could be the developers) if at all.
Dave: The fact that their app contains an extra switch/case or three
over a non-FB app is unlikely to have any material impact on their
uptime or performance. Assuming
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