(ot) Powerpoint question

2010-01-06 Thread Stefan Richter

Hi all,
sorry for the OT question but I think someone here may be able to advise.

Is it technically possible to keep an application (for example a Windows 
executable of some kind) on top of a Powerpoint presentation which is in 
fullscreen, presenter mode? Imagine I was presenting a PPT file and wanted to 
annotate it live on my screen by drawing on top of it using a simple freehand 
drawing tool. For this to happen the drawing app would need to have focus which 
means the PPT snaps out of presentation mode.

Any ideas welcome.

Regards,

Stefan





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RE: (ot) Powerpoint question

2010-01-06 Thread Dave Merrill

I think that PowerPoint lets you draw directly on slides within PowerPoint
itself, in full screen mode. There are keyboard shortcuts to erase
annotations, show and hide the mouse pointer, etc.

Dave Merrill
Web . Database . Interaction Design
 

 -Original Message-
 From: Stefan Richter [mailto:ste...@flashcomguru.com] 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:19 AM
 To: cf-talk
 Subject: (ot) Powerpoint question
 
 
 Hi all,
 sorry for the OT question but I think someone here may be 
 able to advise.
 
 Is it technically possible to keep an application (for 
 example a Windows executable of some kind) on top of a 
 Powerpoint presentation which is in fullscreen, presenter 
 mode? Imagine I was presenting a PPT file and wanted to 
 annotate it live on my screen by drawing on top of it using a 
 simple freehand drawing tool. For this to happen the drawing 
 app would need to have focus which means the PPT snaps out of 
 presentation mode.
 
 Any ideas welcome.
 
 Regards,
 
 Stefan
 
 
 
 
 
 

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McAfee OnAccess Scan and ColdFusion Servers: Performance

2010-01-06 Thread Dominic Watson

Afternoon all,

We have McAfee enterprise running on our live webservers and I've noticed
performance issues that may be to do with the OnAccess scanner scanning .jar
and possibly .class files. One very obvious symptom occurs when restarting
CF: with scanning turned off, a restart happens nearly instantly; with
scanning turned on it takes over 2 minutes. We are also seeing McAfee
timeout alerts in the Application logs around the same time as CF request
processing slowdowns. Another possible area of concern is scanning log files
every time they are written to.

My questions are these:

1. Has anyone experienced this?
2. Has anyone remedied / configured McAfee to play nice with CF (if indeed
there is a problem)?

I have read McAfee's KB articles on Java apps and am waiting to hear back
from our hosts opinion on this:

https://kc.mcafee.com/corporate/index?page=3Dcontentid=3DKB57236
https://kc.mcafee.com/corporate/index?page=contentid=KB58727

Our hosting provider has been very doubtful over McAfee causing any issues
at all and it would be great to get any kind of real world experience here.

TIA

Dominic


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Re: McAfee OnAccess Scan and ColdFusion Servers: Performance

2010-01-06 Thread Mike Chabot

AV programs can cause major performance issues on database servers and
Web servers. I've seen servers so taxed by active virus scans that
they no longer accept incoming connections. Servers generally don't
need any AV programs, unless you allow anonymous people to upload
files to them, in which case you can target the upload folders for
scans. I recommend not running AV programs on database and Web servers
unless there is a definite need to.

The McAfee desktop program has a reputation of noticeably slowing down
computers, and I would bet their enterprise product has the same
issues.

If you really want to keep McAfee running, add the ColdFusion jar
files to the exclusion list.

-Mike Chabot

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Dominic Watson
watson.domi...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Afternoon all,

 We have McAfee enterprise running on our live webservers and I've noticed
 performance issues that may be to do with the OnAccess scanner scanning .jar
 and possibly .class files. One very obvious symptom occurs when restarting
 CF: with scanning turned off, a restart happens nearly instantly; with
 scanning turned on it takes over 2 minutes. We are also seeing McAfee
 timeout alerts in the Application logs around the same time as CF request
 processing slowdowns. Another possible area of concern is scanning log files
 every time they are written to.

 My questions are these:

 1. Has anyone experienced this?
 2. Has anyone remedied / configured McAfee to play nice with CF (if indeed
 there is a problem)?

 I have read McAfee's KB articles on Java apps and am waiting to hear back
 from our hosts opinion on this:

 https://kc.mcafee.com/corporate/index?page=3Dcontentid=3DKB57236
 https://kc.mcafee.com/corporate/index?page=contentid=KB58727

 Our hosting provider has been very doubtful over McAfee causing any issues
 at all and it would be great to get any kind of real world experience here.

 TIA

 Dominic


 

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Re: McAfee OnAccess Scan and ColdFusion Servers: Performance

2010-01-06 Thread Dave Watts

 AV programs can cause major performance issues on database servers and
 Web servers. I've seen servers so taxed by active virus scans that
 they no longer accept incoming connections. Servers generally don't
 need any AV programs, unless you allow anonymous people to upload
 files to them, in which case you can target the upload folders for
 scans. I recommend not running AV programs on database and Web servers
 unless there is a definite need to.

 The McAfee desktop program has a reputation of noticeably slowing down
 computers, and I would bet their enterprise product has the same
 issues.

 If you really want to keep McAfee running, add the ColdFusion jar
 files to the exclusion list.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. You shouldn't need AV running on your
servers, because you're not using your servers as desktops. A properly
configured server doesn't need a general AV package scanning all
available storage.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VSOB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: McAfee OnAccess Scan and ColdFusion Servers: Performance

2010-01-06 Thread Dominic Watson

Thanks alot Mike, that's really helpful.

Dominic

2010/1/6 Mike Chabot mcha...@gmail.com


 AV programs can cause major performance issues on database servers and
 Web servers. I've seen servers so taxed by active virus scans that
 they no longer accept incoming connections. Servers generally don't
 need any AV programs, unless you allow anonymous people to upload
 files to them, in which case you can target the upload folders for
 scans. I recommend not running AV programs on database and Web servers
 unless there is a definite need to.

 The McAfee desktop program has a reputation of noticeably slowing down
 computers, and I would bet their enterprise product has the same
 issues.

 If you really want to keep McAfee running, add the ColdFusion jar
 files to the exclusion list.

 -Mike Chabot

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Dominic Watson
 watson.domi...@googlemail.com wrote:
 
  Afternoon all,
 
  We have McAfee enterprise running on our live webservers and I've noticed
  performance issues that may be to do with the OnAccess scanner scanning
 .jar
  and possibly .class files. One very obvious symptom occurs when
 restarting
  CF: with scanning turned off, a restart happens nearly instantly; with
  scanning turned on it takes over 2 minutes. We are also seeing McAfee
  timeout alerts in the Application logs around the same time as CF request
  processing slowdowns. Another possible area of concern is scanning log
 files
  every time they are written to.
 
  My questions are these:
 
  1. Has anyone experienced this?
  2. Has anyone remedied / configured McAfee to play nice with CF (if
 indeed
  there is a problem)?
 
  I have read McAfee's KB articles on Java apps and am waiting to hear back
  from our hosts opinion on this:
 
  https://kc.mcafee.com/corporate/index?page=3Dcontentid=3DKB57236
  https://kc.mcafee.com/corporate/index?page=contentid=KB58727
 
  Our hosting provider has been very doubtful over McAfee causing any
 issues
  at all and it would be great to get any kind of real world experience
 here.
 
  TIA
 
  Dominic
 
 
 

 

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Re: McAfee OnAccess Scan and ColdFusion Servers: Performance

2010-01-06 Thread Dominic Watson

Thanks Dave.

2010/1/6 Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com


  AV programs can cause major performance issues on database servers and
  Web servers. I've seen servers so taxed by active virus scans that
  they no longer accept incoming connections. Servers generally don't
  need any AV programs, unless you allow anonymous people to upload
  files to them, in which case you can target the upload folders for
  scans. I recommend not running AV programs on database and Web servers
  unless there is a definite need to.
 
  The McAfee desktop program has a reputation of noticeably slowing down
  computers, and I would bet their enterprise product has the same
  issues.
 
  If you really want to keep McAfee running, add the ColdFusion jar
  files to the exclusion list.

 Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. You shouldn't need AV running on your
 servers, because you're not using your servers as desktops. A properly
 configured server doesn't need a general AV package scanning all
 available storage.

 Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
 http://www.figleaf.com/
 http://training.figleaf.com/

 Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VSOB) on
 GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
 instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

 

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RE: How to query encrypted password

2010-01-06 Thread Nathan Chen

Yes, and it is in Oracle 11g.

Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:05 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: How to query encrypted password


 I need to query an Oracle user table where username and encrypted
 password are stored. I need to compare the user input password with
the
 encrypted password in the table. Can the CF Decrypt function do the
 work? Can someone give me a pointer?

How was the password encrypted in the first place?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!



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Re: How to query encrypted password

2010-01-06 Thread Cameron Childress

Interesting - I have never heard of the encryption algorithm called Yes.

-Cameron

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Nathan Chen nathan.c...@cu.edu wrote:
 Yes, and it is in Oracle 11g.

 Nathan

 -Original Message-
 From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]

 How was the password encrypted in the first place?

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Is it possible for a ColdFusion web service method to return an object?

2010-01-06 Thread Ian Skinner

I am experimenting to see if it is possible for a ColdFusion web service 
method to somehow return another object of some sort.  I am not having 
any luck with either my code or searching Google, but I wanted to ask 
before I gave this up as impossible.

  My last experiment looked something like this:

*webservice-test.cfm*

cfset testObj = createObject(component,webservice)

|cfoutput#testObj.getID()#/cfoutputhr /
cfoutput#testObj.getObj().myFunction(george)#/cfoutputhr /
cfdump var=#testObj.getObj()#hr /
cfdump var=#testObj#

cfset testWS = 
createObject(webservice,http://localhost/webservice.cfc?wsdl;)

cfoutput#testWS.getID()#/cfoutputhr /
cfdump var=#testWS.getObj()#hr /
cfdump var=#testWS#
|

*webservice.cfc*

|cfcomponent
 cfproperty name=ID default=10 type=numeric
   cfproperty name=obj type=webservice2

   cfset variables.ID = 12
   cfset variables.obj = createObject(component,webservice2)

   cffunction name=getID access=remote returntype=numeric
   cfreturn variables.ID
   /cffunction

   cffunction name=getObj access=remote returntype=webservice2
   cfreturn variables.obj
   /cffunction
/cfcomponent
|

*webservice2.cfc*

|cfcomponent
 cffunction name=myFunction access=remote returntype=string
 cfargument name=myArgument type=string required=yes
 cfset myResult=arguments.myArgument
 cfreturn myResult
 /cffunction
/cfcomponent
|

The top portion of the code that access the nested components locally 
works exactly as expected.

The lower portion of the first file that accesses the nested components 
as a web service produce an empty string for the method that is supposed 
to reference the second cfc file.  Is that what happens if one tries to 
nest objects in a web service, or am I doing something wrong.



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Re: How to query encrypted password

2010-01-06 Thread Dave Watts

 Interesting - I have never heard of the encryption algorithm called Yes.

It's very flexible!

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VSOB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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RE: How to query encrypted password

2010-01-06 Thread Dave Phillips

Oh yeah, YES - It's the Yodeling Encryption System - the method is quite
simple actually, but deeply mathematical in principle - Each encryption is
done using a key of the binary data produced by a 10 second yodeler.  No two
yodels are alike, of course, so that produces a mathematically impossible to
break algorithm that then locks down your data so hard that it can never be
unlocked.  Of course, the practical implications are limited. 

Dave Phillips (one who watches Numb3rs too much!)
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:25 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: How to query encrypted password


 Interesting - I have never heard of the encryption algorithm called Yes.

It's very flexible!

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VSOB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.



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Re: Is it possible for a ColdFusion web service method to return an object?

2010-01-06 Thread Cutter (ColdFusion)

I don't have a ton of experience with web services, but I would think 
the answer is no. Web services generally return string representations 
of data, either in the form of XML or JSON. You could use something like 
cfajaxproxy to create a js proxy object to a cfc, but even then you 
would need to be careful in how your cfc is crafted, and what methods 
are set for remote access, managing security, etc.

Steve Cutter Blades
Adobe Certified Professional
Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer

Co-Author of Learning Ext JS
http://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js/book
_
http://blog.cutterscrossing.com



Ian Skinner wrote:
 I am experimenting to see if it is possible for a ColdFusion web service 
 method to somehow return another object of some sort.  I am not having 
 any luck with either my code or searching Google, but I wanted to ask 
 before I gave this up as impossible.

   My last experiment looked something like this:

 *webservice-test.cfm*

 cfset testObj = createObject(component,webservice)

 |cfoutput#testObj.getID()#/cfoutputhr /
 cfoutput#testObj.getObj().myFunction(george)#/cfoutputhr /
 cfdump var=#testObj.getObj()#hr /
 cfdump var=#testObj#

 cfset testWS = 
 createObject(webservice,http://localhost/webservice.cfc?wsdl;)

 cfoutput#testWS.getID()#/cfoutputhr /
 cfdump var=#testWS.getObj()#hr /
 cfdump var=#testWS#
 |

 *webservice.cfc*

 |cfcomponent
  cfproperty name=ID default=10 type=numeric
cfproperty name=obj type=webservice2

cfset variables.ID = 12
cfset variables.obj = createObject(component,webservice2)

cffunction name=getID access=remote returntype=numeric
cfreturn variables.ID
/cffunction

cffunction name=getObj access=remote returntype=webservice2
cfreturn variables.obj
/cffunction
 /cfcomponent
 |

 *webservice2.cfc*

 |cfcomponent
  cffunction name=myFunction access=remote returntype=string
  cfargument name=myArgument type=string required=yes
  cfset myResult=arguments.myArgument
  cfreturn myResult
  /cffunction
 /cfcomponent
 |

 The top portion of the code that access the nested components locally 
 works exactly as expected.

 The lower portion of the first file that accesses the nested components 
 as a web service produce an empty string for the method that is supposed 
 to reference the second cfc file.  Is that what happens if one tries to 
 nest objects in a web service, or am I doing something wrong.



 

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Re: How to query encrypted password

2010-01-06 Thread Judah McAuley

Encryption is not the same thing as Hashing. Encryption is reversible,
hashing (ideally) is a one-way function.

Common hashing algorithms include MD5 and SHA1
Common encryption algorithms include AES, RSA and Blowfish

Hashing of passwords and storing them in the database unencrypted is
the most common scenario. However, some applications prefer to use
encryption so that passwords are recoverable for the user. Encryption
can be done either at the application server level or in the database
itself.

First thing, then, is to identify whether the passwords are hashed or
encrypted and if they are encrypted, whether they are encrypted by the
db or the app server.

Judah

On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Kevin Pepperman chorno...@gmail.com wrote:

 I need to query an Oracle user table where username and encrypted
 password are stored. I need to compare the user input password with the
 encrypted password in the table. Can the CF Decrypt function do the
 work? Can someone give me a pointer?

 Usually a password in encrypted with a irreversible encryption, it should be
 anyways.

 The methods to verify the password is usually the same.

 The way you validate the submitted password is to encrypt the password
 submitted by the client with the same exact method that was used to encrypt
 the one that is stored, and then compare the submitted with the stored
 encrypted passwords.


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Re: Is it possible for a ColdFusion web service method to return an object?

2010-01-06 Thread Judah McAuley

I believe you can send complex objects with SOAP but I never utilized
that feature and haven't worked with SOAP in some time. I'd start by
looking at the docs for SOAP services in CF and see where that leads
you.

Judah

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Ian Skinner h...@ilsweb.com wrote:

 I am experimenting to see if it is possible for a ColdFusion web service
 method to somehow return another object of some sort.  I am not having
 any luck with either my code or searching Google, but I wanted to ask
 before I gave this up as impossible.

  My last experiment looked something like this:

 *webservice-test.cfm*

 cfset testObj = createObject(component,webservice)

 |cfoutput#testObj.getID()#/cfoutputhr /
 cfoutput#testObj.getObj().myFunction(george)#/cfoutputhr /
 cfdump var=#testObj.getObj()#hr /
 cfdump var=#testObj#

 cfset testWS = 
 createObject(webservice,http://localhost/webservice.cfc?wsdl;)

 cfoutput#testWS.getID()#/cfoutputhr /
 cfdump var=#testWS.getObj()#hr /
 cfdump var=#testWS#
 |

 *webservice.cfc*

 |cfcomponent
     cfproperty name=ID default=10 type=numeric
   cfproperty name=obj type=webservice2

   cfset variables.ID = 12
   cfset variables.obj = createObject(component,webservice2)

   cffunction name=getID access=remote returntype=numeric
       cfreturn variables.ID
   /cffunction

   cffunction name=getObj access=remote returntype=webservice2
       cfreturn variables.obj
   /cffunction
 /cfcomponent
 |

 *webservice2.cfc*

 |cfcomponent
     cffunction name=myFunction access=remote returntype=string
         cfargument name=myArgument type=string required=yes
         cfset myResult=arguments.myArgument
         cfreturn myResult
     /cffunction
 /cfcomponent
 |

 The top portion of the code that access the nested components locally
 works exactly as expected.

 The lower portion of the first file that accesses the nested components
 as a web service produce an empty string for the method that is supposed
 to reference the second cfc file.  Is that what happens if one tries to
 nest objects in a web service, or am I doing something wrong.



 

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meta tag location

2010-01-06 Thread Les Irvin

I usually put a few meta tags in the application.cfm file, and a few
more on the individual pages.  Is there any danger to not keeping all
the meta tags in one place?  A client claims their google ranking has
fallen since this has been done.
Thanks,
Les

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Re: meta tag location

2010-01-06 Thread Casey Dougall

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Les Irvin les.cft...@gmail.com wrote:


 I usually put a few meta tags in the application.cfm file, and a few
 more on the individual pages.  Is there any danger to not keeping all
 the meta tags in one place?  A client claims their google ranking has
 fallen since this has been done.
 Thanks,
 Les


Are they all still in the head tag?


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ImageFlare / Efflare Licensing Issues

2010-01-06 Thread Alan Rother

Hey Does anyone know how to ACTUALLY get hold of someone from Efflare?

I've called the phone number on their website and filled out their support
form... No response...

I have to get an answer on a license issue ASAP... Lawyers from a Fortune
500 company are asking questions... These are people I don't want to
annoy...

I know Magnus used to follow this list... Can someone get me in touch with
them???

=\

-- 
Alan Rother
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
Manager, Phoenix Cold Fusion User Group, AZCFUG.org


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RE: meta tag location

2010-01-06 Thread Jacob

What are the meta tags? Meta tags are 99% useless for search engine ranking.

Remove them and see what happens.

-Original Message-
From: Les Irvin [mailto:les.cft...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 11:41 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: meta tag location


I usually put a few meta tags in the application.cfm file, and a few
more on the individual pages.  Is there any danger to not keeping all
the meta tags in one place?  A client claims their google ranking has
fallen since this has been done.
Thanks,
Les



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Re: Is it possible for a ColdFusion web service method to return an object?

2010-01-06 Thread Leigh

I am pretty sure you can return complex objects. But I do not know what the 
limitations/compatibility issues might be.

I tried your code with CF9 last night, and it does work. I do not have access 
to CF8 right now, but have you tried something like this:

TestWebservice.cfm
cfset ws  = createObject(webservice,http://localhost/webservice.cfc?wsdl;) 
/
OBJ cfdump var=#ws.getObj()#hr /


Webservice.cfc

cfcomponent
  cfset variables.ID = 12 /
  cfset variables.obj = createObject(component,MyObject) /

  cffunction name=getID access=remote returntype=numeric
  cfreturn variables.ID
  /cffunction
  
  cffunction name=getObj access=remote returntype=MyObject
  cfreturn variables.obj
  /cffunction
/cfcomponent

MyObject.cfc

cfcomponent
cfproperty name=name default=Bob type=string
cfset variables.name = Bob /

cffunction name=setName returntype=void
cfargument name=name type=string
cfset variables.name = arguments.name /
/cffunction
cffunction name=getName returntype=string
cfreturn varaibles.name /
/cffunction

/cfcomponent


  

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Re: CF5 download

2010-01-06 Thread Kevin Pepperman

So, Just a follow up. I received a copy of CF5 enterprise from kind members
of this list, thanks again.

The original license I had was only for Linux. Since it was given to the
company I am working at for free when Macromedia Generator was phased out.

So I did a test install in a Ubuntu VM, only to discover CF5 only runs on
older versions Apache (LTE Apache 2.0.43-xx ) AFAIK

I did get it running with a old version of Apache using some .so modules
from this site. http://home.nextron.ch/coldfusion/

But all these versions of Apache have security holes, so I cant use them in
production.


So, I figured, maybe i'll have to settle for IIS :(  ;  I moved to a WIN32
server that has several other variations CF server, (XP pro, IIS 5.1, quad
core,) however the license key I had would not work in WIN32. - :|

I logged in to Adobe.com, and fired up their Live help around 2AM and
explained the situation.

The Generator purchase was almost 7 years ago under Macromedia, and ADOBE
had no record of giving out the free CF5 license at all and it did not show
up in the account, even though the Generator purchase was there.

But, within 15 minutes of a long list of questions, they got back to me, and
provided a license for ColdFusion5 Enterprise WIN32.

So, I now have it all installed and working under IIS. This means several
apps wont have to be re-factored right away, saving the company money and
time.

It is funny to see the slew of CFML servers; CF5, CFMX, ACF8, ACF9, RAILO,
BlueDragon JX and OpenBd all playing nice on 1 XP box. My, how far this all
has come in such a short time!


In finishing, I have to say Kudos to Adobe for being understanding, and
doing the right thing.

Thanks again to this group for the help, I am sometimes stunned at how fast,
and how many people respond to this list.

It is one the reasons I originally got inspired by CFML, and it is one of
the best things about the language, the CFML community's simply rock.

/K


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RE: meta tag location

2010-01-06 Thread Terry Troxel

I think you better rethink that one. The Title Meta tag and the Meta
Description tags are 2 very, very important tags as far as the search
engines go. Yes the meta keywords is no longer in use but for proof look in
the organic search for a top ranking page and then view source and a good
percentage of the time you will see the meta description as the anchor text
for the link to the landing page. 

The title and description should be different for every page on the site
too.

Terry 

-Original Message-
From: Jacob [mailto:ja...@excaliburfilms.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:51 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: meta tag location


What are the meta tags? Meta tags are 99% useless for search engine ranking.

Remove them and see what happens.

-Original Message-
From: Les Irvin [mailto:les.cft...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 11:41 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: meta tag location


I usually put a few meta tags in the application.cfm file, and a few
more on the individual pages.  Is there any danger to not keeping all
the meta tags in one place?  A client claims their google ranking has
fallen since this has been done.
Thanks,
Les





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Re: meta tag location

2010-01-06 Thread Dave Watts

 I usually put a few meta tags in the application.cfm file, and a few
 more on the individual pages.  Is there any danger to not keeping all
 the meta tags in one place?  A client claims their google ranking has
 fallen since this has been done.

They should ideally all be in the HEAD of the document, although I'm
not sure how much of a difference it'll make with Google, which
appears to primarily use metadata for categorization rather than
relevance.

You can ensure that they're placed in the document head from any code
you use to build the page, using the CFHTMLHEAD tag, unless you've
already flushed content using CFFLUSH.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VSOB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsit

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Re: meta tag location

2010-01-06 Thread Dave Watts

 I think you better rethink that one. The Title Meta tag and the Meta
 Description tags are 2 very, very important tags as far as the search
 engines go. Yes the meta keywords is no longer in use but for proof look in
 the organic search for a top ranking page and then view source and a good
 percentage of the time you will see the meta description as the anchor text
 for the link to the landing page.

The TITLE tag is not a META tag.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VSOB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: meta tag location

2010-01-06 Thread Kevin Pepperman

From my research on several large commerce websites I have worked on, Google
does not even use the Meta Description, page Title or URL for page rank or
position.

It may look like they do since they highlight the keywords in the results,
but that does not mean it is used that way.

Google does not use the keywords at all, but some other search engines may
still use them.


But, like Terry Troxel mentioned, they do use content from the title and
description in the actual results, and for categorization. So visually
and semantically they are important.

It also seems like Google has it dialed in so well, that sometimes even the
actual content can be completely irrelevent in how well the site ranks.

The fact is that Google must base their Page Ranking and seacrh result
placements purely on how many users find what they are looking for.

Of course, Google does track clicks, if the client returns to google, then
they didnt find what they were looking for. I think Google uses that
information above all others.


I have also found that Google really checks for changed content, quite a
bit. And not just for simple timestamp changes, but actual dated content. or
new products.

One site I work on is indexed very well by google, We see the google-bots
come and go on a regular schedule. They hit the site every 2-3 hours, they
grab the main page, and almost seemingly random pages, looking for changes
maybe?

But whenever we add a couple dozen new products, or have a big sale that
changes prices on large amounts of products, the google-bots will hit the
site every 20-30 seconds, indexing the new or changed content like crazy.


So, I don't rely on any forms of SEO to be a magic bullet, These things do
help them categorize, (title, h1, h2, h3 etc..) but good content
and relevance is the only silver bullet.

/K


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RE: meta tag location

2010-01-06 Thread Will Swain

Google and meta tags:

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/09/google-does-not-use-keywo
rds-meta-tag.html

-Original Message-
From: Kevin Pepperman [mailto:chorno...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 07 January 2010 06:16
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: meta tag location


From my research on several large commerce websites I have worked on, Google
does not even use the Meta Description, page Title or URL for page rank or
position.

It may look like they do since they highlight the keywords in the results,
but that does not mean it is used that way.

Google does not use the keywords at all, but some other search engines may
still use them.


But, like Terry Troxel mentioned, they do use content from the title and
description in the actual results, and for categorization. So visually
and semantically they are important.

It also seems like Google has it dialed in so well, that sometimes even the
actual content can be completely irrelevent in how well the site ranks.

The fact is that Google must base their Page Ranking and seacrh result
placements purely on how many users find what they are looking for.

Of course, Google does track clicks, if the client returns to google, then
they didnt find what they were looking for. I think Google uses that
information above all others.


I have also found that Google really checks for changed content, quite a
bit. And not just for simple timestamp changes, but actual dated content. or
new products.

One site I work on is indexed very well by google, We see the google-bots
come and go on a regular schedule. They hit the site every 2-3 hours, they
grab the main page, and almost seemingly random pages, looking for changes
maybe?

But whenever we add a couple dozen new products, or have a big sale that
changes prices on large amounts of products, the google-bots will hit the
site every 20-30 seconds, indexing the new or changed content like crazy.


So, I don't rely on any forms of SEO to be a magic bullet, These things do
help them categorize, (title, h1, h2, h3 etc..) but good content
and relevance is the only silver bullet.

/K




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