[cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Andrew
Thanks guys.

What's confusing me is that the query is *not* dynamic.  The
underlying data *may* change in the meantime (it's a count - and we're
prepared to accept the discrepancy), but the query itself accepts no
parameters and the sql will be identical each time it's called.
That's what confuses me, because I was under the impression that under
these conditions it should stay cached, and it doesn't seem to be.

Doing a cfdump shows cached = true most of the time, but every now
and then it shows cached = false.

I'm thinking of just putting the value in a variables and caching it
with cfcache, but I'd really like to understand why it's not working
as expected...

Andrew.

On Jun 21, 5:15 pm, ColdGen Internet Solutions
coldgen.internet.soluti...@gmail.com wrote:
 Query caching is great for things that you KNOW won't change for ages,
 eg OZ PostCode/Suburbs you can safely cache for 24hours but still a
 pain in the butt to get source file from AusPost but as an example.

 Not every query needs to or even should be cached.

 Basic rule of thumb is if SQL or whatever database server you use
 (what are you using? I use 3 iterations of SQL Server) changes between
 CF and the database server - expecting a different and not the same
 result (same result use the cached result) a new query will be made
 and THAT will then be cached.

 Peter Tilbrook
 Managing Director, ColdGen Internet Solutions
 Professional Adobe ColdFusion 9 Application Development
 President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
 PO Box 2247
 Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
 AUSTRALIA

 Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
 Mob: +61-2-0457-449-016

 Email Address: pe...@coldgen.com
 WWW:http://www.coldgen.com/

 ABN: 80 826 226 128

 On 21 June 2011 17:08, Paul Kukiel kuki...@gmail.com wrote:



  Do you use ColdFire? ( now works with FF 4 )
  You can watch all queries on each page hit and it will tell you if its
  cached or not.
  You can also watch this with  Enable Request Debugging Output  turend on
  although it will mess up your HTML in some cases.
  That way you can prove if its being cached or not.
  Paul.
  On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Andrew am2...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hi,

  A colleague has asked me to investigate some code that he claims used
  to cache, but at some point recently doesn't anymore.

  Sadly, I can't replicate the exact code / query here (I expect my boss
  would have a fit if I did), but to paraphrase it, it's something
  like:

  cfquery name=qCount datasource=somedatasource
  cachedwithin=#CreateTimeSpan(0,5,0,0)#
     
  /cfquery

  Please take my word for it that the query does not change, but it DOES
  have a couple of nested selects (not sure that would be a factor?).

  I set up a test page, and it appears to remain cached for a couple of
  minutes and then disappear from the cache.

  The CF Administrator is set to cache 100 queries, and looking at the
  monitor it seems to flucuate between about 2 and 8 cached queries in
  total, so I am pretty sure we aren't hitting the limit.

  So my question is - how can I debug this?  I believe the requirements
  specified in the doco are being meet, eg:

  the current query must use the same SQL statement, data source, query
  name, user name, and password

  However, one possible thing I can think of is, what if there was the
  same SQL statement being called with a different datasource.  Would
  that cause this one to be lost?  Or would they both be cached
  independently?  Because this is a possibility, as we have a staging
  instance on the same coldfusion instance.

  Hopefully that all makes sense...it's a bit hard to explain...

  Andrew.

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Andrew Myers
Just to clarify, the cached = false appears every couple of minutes, despite
the cachedwithin timespan asking for 5 hours...

On 21 June 2011 17:36, Andrew am2...@gmail.com wrote:

 Doing a cfdump shows cached = true most of the time, but every now
 and then it shows cached = false.


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RE: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Peter Tilbrook
If the QUERY result changes (the result) the CACHE changes. This is the
point. If the query has NOT changed CF will use what is stored. Otherwise it
re-requests the data from the database server.

ColdFusion is NOT a database server. Your database returns a result to
ColdFusion based on what CF request. If the database server itself says the
results are different now than obviously the result given to CF is now
changed. Hence a new QUERY.RESULT and a NEW AND UPDATED cache.

Get it?

Peter Tilbrook
Managing Director, ColdGen Internet Solutions
Professional Adobe ColdFusion 9 Application Development
President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
PO Box 2247
Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
AUSTRALIA

Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
Mob: +61-2-0457-449-016

Email Address: pe...@coldgen.com
WWW: http://www.coldgen.com/

ABN: 80 826 226 128

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-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Andrew
Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2011 5:37 PM
To: cfaussie
Subject: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

Thanks guys.

What's confusing me is that the query is *not* dynamic.  The underlying data
*may* change in the meantime (it's a count - and we're prepared to accept
the discrepancy), but the query itself accepts no parameters and the sql
will be identical each time it's called.
That's what confuses me, because I was under the impression that under these
conditions it should stay cached, and it doesn't seem to be.

Doing a cfdump shows cached = true most of the time, but every now and
then it shows cached = false.

I'm thinking of just putting the value in a variables and caching it with
cfcache, but I'd really like to understand why it's not working as
expected...

Andrew.

On Jun 21, 5:15 pm, ColdGen Internet Solutions
coldgen.internet.soluti...@gmail.com wrote:
 Query caching is great for things that you KNOW won't change for ages, 
 eg OZ PostCode/Suburbs you can safely cache for 24hours but still a 
 pain in the butt to get source file from AusPost but as an example.

 Not every query needs to or even should be cached.

 Basic rule of thumb is if SQL or whatever database server you use 
 (what are you using? I use 3 iterations of SQL Server) changes between 
 CF and the database server - expecting a different and not the same 
 result (same result use the cached result) a new query will be made 
 and THAT will then be cached.

 Peter Tilbrook
 Managing Director, ColdGen Internet Solutions Professional Adobe 
 ColdFusion 9 Application Development President, ACT and Region 
 ColdFusion Users Group PO Box 2247 Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620 AUSTRALIA

 Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
 Mob: +61-2-0457-449-016

 Email Address: pe...@coldgen.com
 WWW:http://www.coldgen.com/

 ABN: 80 826 226 128

 On 21 June 2011 17:08, Paul Kukiel kuki...@gmail.com wrote:



  Do you use ColdFire? ( now works with FF 4 ) You can watch all 
  queries on each page hit and it will tell you if its cached or not.
  You can also watch this with  Enable Request Debugging Output  
  turend on although it will mess up your HTML in some cases.
  That way you can prove if its being cached or not.
  Paul.
  On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Andrew am2...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hi,

  A colleague has asked me to investigate some code that he claims 
  used to cache, but at some point recently doesn't anymore.

  Sadly, I can't replicate the exact code / query here (I expect my 
  boss would have a fit if I did), but to paraphrase it, it's 
  something
  like:

  cfquery name=qCount datasource=somedatasource
  cachedwithin=#CreateTimeSpan(0,5,0,0)#
     
  /cfquery

  Please take my word for it that the query does not change, but it 
  DOES have a couple of nested selects (not sure that would be a
factor?).

  I set up a test page, and it appears to remain cached for a couple 
  of minutes and then disappear from the cache.

  The CF Administrator is set to cache 100 queries, and looking at 
  the monitor it seems to flucuate between about 2 and 8 cached 
  queries in total, so I am pretty sure we aren't hitting the limit.

  So my question is - how can I debug this?  I believe the 
  requirements specified in the doco are being meet, eg:

  the current query must use the same SQL statement, data source, 
  query name, user name, and password

  However, one possible thing I can think of is, what if there was 
  the same SQL statement being called with a different datasource.  
  Would

Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Kai Koenig
I would have a look into that datasource idea with your staging environment 
again. Maybe just build a simple testcase and see if calling the logic that 
runs the query in staging triggers the re-execution of the query in production.

Also - you're 100% sure there that it doesn't get kicked out of the query cache?


 Just to clarify, the cached = false appears every couple of minutes, despite 
 the cachedwithin timespan asking for 5 hours...
 
 On 21 June 2011 17:36, Andrew am2...@gmail.com wrote:
 Doing a cfdump shows cached = true most of the time, but every now
 and then it shows cached = false.
 
 








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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Andrew Myers
But it shouldn't go back to the database to check if it's changed, if it's
truly cached.  What would be the point of caching, if it had to check
anyway?

On 21 June 2011 17:53, Peter Tilbrook peter.tilbr...@gmail.com wrote:

 If the QUERY result changes (the result) the CACHE changes. This is the
 point. If the query has NOT changed CF will use what is stored. Otherwise
 it
 re-requests the data from the database server.

 ColdFusion is NOT a database server. Your database returns a result to
 ColdFusion based on what CF request. If the database server itself says
 the
 results are different now than obviously the result given to CF is now
 changed. Hence a new QUERY.RESULT and a NEW AND UPDATED cache.

 Get it?


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RE: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Peter Tilbrook
But it shouldn't go back to the database to check if it's changed, if it's
truly cached.  What would be the point of caching, if it had to check
anyway?

Yes - it should. Because you are caching results that do not change for a
long time. The CACHEDWITHIN is a measure of how long CF will store a QUERY
until it is notified that a cached query has changed - it does this
automatically.

 

So.

 

1.  CF request a QUERY from your database server.

2.  DB sends back result and CF caches it - for 5 or how many hours.

3.  Multiple request made to DB and CF gets same result so uses the
cache instead. All good.

4.  But one single requests alters the DB response. CF caches the new
result. This new result is now the CACHE result.

5.  All good no more changes for 5 hours. At 5:15 a new query to DB.
Cache has expired. DB responds. CF creates a new CACHE with that result.

 

That in a nutshell is how is works.

 

Only been using CF for 16 years next month so am I right?

 

 

On 21 June 2011 17:53, Peter Tilbrook peter.tilbr...@gmail.com wrote:

If the QUERY result changes (the result) the CACHE changes. This is the
point. If the query has NOT changed CF will use what is stored. Otherwise it
re-requests the data from the database server.

ColdFusion is NOT a database server. Your database returns a result to
ColdFusion based on what CF request. If the database server itself says the
results are different now than obviously the result given to CF is now
changed. Hence a new QUERY.RESULT and a NEW AND UPDATED cache.

Get it?

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RE: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Peter Tilbrook
But it shouldn't go back to the database to check if it's changed, if it's
truly cached.  What would be the point of caching, if it had to check
anyway?

 

 

It takes milliseconds for CF to check as opposed to many many seconds to
retrieve database records that you would normally cache and not HIT the
server every time when you know as a developer the result will not often
change. My postcode example in point, say 10,000+ records?

 

That is when you use caching.

 

 

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Kai Koenig
Nope, you're wrong re 4. There's no underlying magic that notifies CF that a 
query has changed. If you cache a query for whatever timespan CF doesn't talk 
to the server for that timespan at all unless you flush the query cache by for 
instance setting cachedwithin for that query to a zero-timespan or restart the 
CF service/daemon

Cheers
Kai



 But it shouldn't go back to the database to check if it's changed, if it's 
 truly cached.  What would be the point of caching, if it had to check anyway?
 
 Yes – it should. Because you are caching results that do not change for a 
 long time. The CACHEDWITHIN is a measure of how long CF will store a QUERY 
 until it is notified that a cached query has changed – it does this 
 automatically.
  
 So.
  
 1.  CF request a QUERY from your database server.
 2.  DB sends back result and CF caches it – for 5 or how many hours.
 3.  Multiple request made to DB and CF gets same result so uses the cache 
 instead. All good.
 4.  But one single requests alters the DB response. CF caches the new 
 result. This new result is now the CACHE result.
 5.  All good no more changes for 5 hours. At 5:15 a new query to DB. 
 Cache has expired. DB responds. CF creates a new CACHE with that result.
  
 That in a nutshell is how is works.
  
 Only been using CF for 16 years next month so am I right?
  
  
 On 21 June 2011 17:53, Peter Tilbrook peter.tilbr...@gmail.com wrote:
 If the QUERY result changes (the result) the CACHE changes. This is the
 point. If the query has NOT changed CF will use what is stored. Otherwise it
 re-requests the data from the database server.
 
 ColdFusion is NOT a database server. Your database returns a result to
 ColdFusion based on what CF request. If the database server itself says the
 results are different now than obviously the result given to CF is now
 changed. Hence a new QUERY.RESULT and a NEW AND UPDATED cache.
 
 Get it?



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RE: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Peter Tilbrook
 

Basterd ;) I think you are right - been a long time since I've needed to
cache a query. You are right I remember. Cache for 5 minutes - yup 5 minutes
- unless some sort of error?

 

An interesting point - caching the WRONG or OUT OF DATE stuff can be worse
than not caching at all.

 

Tired - went to bed at 4am and woke up at 9am thinking I overslept and it
was 2pm! Long day!

 

I certainly recommend caching queries. Even for 5-15 minutes on a heavy
trafficked site can make a difference. Every site and application will be
different. The developer fun is finding or tuning the sweetspot.

 

 

 

Nope, you're wrong re 4. There's no underlying magic that notifies CF that a
query has changed. If you cache a query for whatever timespan CF doesn't
talk to the server for that timespan at all unless you flush the query cache
by for instance setting cachedwithin for that query to a zero-timespan or
restart the CF service/daemon

 

Cheers

Kai

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RE: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Steve Onnis
Do you really think that sort of language is needed or appropriate?

 

From: Peter Tilbrook [mailto:peter.tilbr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2011 6:22 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

 

 

Basterd ;) I think you are right - been a long time since I've needed to
cache a query. You are right I remember. Cache for 5 minutes - yup 5 minutes
- unless some sort of error?

 

An interesting point - caching the WRONG or OUT OF DATE stuff can be worse
than not caching at all.

 

Tired - went to bed at 4am and woke up at 9am thinking I overslept and it
was 2pm! Long day!

 

I certainly recommend caching queries. Even for 5-15 minutes on a heavy
trafficked site can make a difference. Every site and application will be
different. The developer fun is finding or tuning the sweetspot.

 

 

 

Nope, you're wrong re 4. There's no underlying magic that notifies CF that a
query has changed. If you cache a query for whatever timespan CF doesn't
talk to the server for that timespan at all unless you flush the query cache
by for instance setting cachedwithin for that query to a zero-timespan or
restart the CF service/daemon

 

Cheers

Kai

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread MrBuzzy
Andrew, I realise I'm jumping in late, so apologies if this has already been 
mentioned, or I'm completely wrong.

I think the query name needs to be more unique. If your server runs another 
query with the same name but different SQL, the cache will be overwritten. 

Maybe do a search thru you code base for another query with the same name. Or 
rename the query, ie: qCountOfHorsesInRace#raceNo# (just an example)

From the docs: To use cached data, current query must use same SQL statement, 
data source, query name, user name, password.

Cheers.

ps: maybe you could ride a horse down to the Melbourne user group ;)

On 21/06/2011, at 6:01 PM, Peter Tilbrook peter.tilbr...@gmail.com wrote:

 But it shouldn't go back to the database to check if it's changed, if it's 
 truly cached.  What would be the point of caching, if it had to check anyway?
 
 Yes – it should. Because you are caching results that do not change for a 
 long time. The CACHEDWITHIN is a measure of how long CF will store a QUERY 
 until it is notified that a cached query has changed – it does this 
 automatically.
 
  
 
 So.
 
  
 
 1.  CF request a QUERY from your database server.
 
 2.  DB sends back result and CF caches it – for 5 or how many hours.
 
 3.  Multiple request made to DB and CF gets same result so uses the cache 
 instead. All good.
 
 4.  But one single requests alters the DB response. CF caches the new 
 result. This new result is now the CACHE result.
 
 5.  All good no more changes for 5 hours. At 5:15 a new query to DB. 
 Cache has expired. DB responds. CF creates a new CACHE with that result.
 
  
 
 That in a nutshell is how is works.
 
  
 
 Only been using CF for 16 years next month so am I right?
 
  
 
  
 
 On 21 June 2011 17:53, Peter Tilbrook peter.tilbr...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 If the QUERY result changes (the result) the CACHE changes. This is the
 point. If the query has NOT changed CF will use what is stored. Otherwise it
 re-requests the data from the database server.
 
 ColdFusion is NOT a database server. Your database returns a result to
 ColdFusion based on what CF request. If the database server itself says the
 results are different now than obviously the result given to CF is now
 changed. Hence a new QUERY.RESULT and a NEW AND UPDATED cache.
 
 Get it?
 
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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread ColdGen Internet Solutions
Sorry Steve - tongue in cheek not meant to offend!

Sorry again!

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread ColdGen Internet Solutions
That's what I tried to say! Thx Mr Buzzy!

Definately use caching where appropriate. On DB heavy apps it can be
really handy.

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread Andrew Myers
Thanks guys.  A few things for me to check tomorrow.

I'm not overly familiar with this part of the app, and I'll also look at 
whether 5 hrs is an appropriate length of time to cache it for too.  

Andrew.

Sent from my mobile

On 21/06/2011, at 6:24 PM, MrBuzzy mrbu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Andrew, I realise I'm jumping in late, so apologies if this has already been 
 mentioned, or I'm completely wrong.
 
 I think the query name needs to be more unique. If your server runs another 
 query with the same name but different SQL, the cache will be overwritten. 
 
 Maybe do a search thru you code base for another query with the same name. Or 
 rename the query, ie: qCountOfHorsesInRace#raceNo# (just an example)
 
 From the docs: To use cached data, current query must use same SQL 
 statement, data source, query name, user name, password.
 
 Cheers.
 
 ps: maybe you could ride a horse down to the Melbourne user group ;)
 
 On 21/06/2011, at 6:01 PM, Peter Tilbrook peter.tilbr...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 But it shouldn't go back to the database to check if it's changed, if it's 
 truly cached.  What would be the point of caching, if it had to check anyway?
 
 Yes – it should. Because you are caching results that do not change for a 
 long time. The CACHEDWITHIN is a measure of how long CF will store a QUERY 
 until it is notified that a cached query has changed – it does this 
 automatically.
 
  
 
 So.
 
  
 
 1.  CF request a QUERY from your database server.
 
 2.  DB sends back result and CF caches it – for 5 or how many hours.
 
 3.  Multiple request made to DB and CF gets same result so uses the 
 cache instead. All good.
 
 4.  But one single requests alters the DB response. CF caches the new 
 result. This new result is now the CACHE result.
 
 5.  All good no more changes for 5 hours. At 5:15 a new query to DB. 
 Cache has expired. DB responds. CF creates a new CACHE with that result.
 
  
 
 That in a nutshell is how is works.
 
  
 
 Only been using CF for 16 years next month so am I right?
 
  
 
  
 
 On 21 June 2011 17:53, Peter Tilbrook peter.tilbr...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 If the QUERY result changes (the result) the CACHE changes. This is the
 point. If the query has NOT changed CF will use what is stored. Otherwise it
 re-requests the data from the database server.
 
 ColdFusion is NOT a database server. Your database returns a result to
 ColdFusion based on what CF request. If the database server itself says the
 results are different now than obviously the result given to CF is now
 changed. Hence a new QUERY.RESULT and a NEW AND UPDATED cache.
 
 Get it?
 
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Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread ColdGen Internet Solutions
:)

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RE: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin

2011-06-21 Thread charlie arehart
I've not heard of that being a feature with CF. It was/is a feature of
BlueDragon.net. 

If it is a feature of CF, I'd love to hear what combination would make it
go, as it would be really valuable. 

(Perhaps it's a part of the new ehcache caching, but I've not worked with it
as much to know.)

/charlie


 -Original Message-
 From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On
 Behalf Of Kym Kovan
 Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:53 AM
 To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: cfquery cachedwithin
 
 Andrew,
 
 sorry more than a bit late on this (16 new CF servers to do in 3 days
 and don't even mention DistIT) but to add to the confusion some
 databases will flag that there has been a change in data and CF can
 pick
 that up so the cache gets dropped.
 
 I can't remember the combo and you haven't said what SQL server and
 cfml
 platform but it might be relevant.
 
 --
 
 Yours,
 
 Kym Kovan


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