Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 07:56:01PM +1200, Evan Hanson wrote: This is a cosmetic change that removes the ##sys# prefix from the lambda-info names of procedures defined in library.scm. Where a procedure was defined first with the prefix and later as an alias without it, their definitions have been swapped, making sure the non-prefixed name is used in its lambda-info structure. This change doesn't make much sense to me unless we also deprecate the ##sys#-prefixed versions. ##sys#error sounds more internal or primitive than error, so (to me) it makes more sense to have error be an alias of ##sys#error, instead of the other way around. I'm not sure deprecating the prefixed versions is worth the hassle, there are quite a few eggs using ##sys#error and ##sys#warn. Cheers, Peter -- http://www.more-magic.net ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
On 2014-07-23 10:06, Peter Bex wrote: This change doesn't make much sense to me unless we also deprecate the ##sys#-prefixed versions. ##sys#error sounds more internal or primitive than error, so (to me) it makes more sense to have error be an alias of ##sys#error, instead of the other way around. I don't think we should deprecate the prefixed versions -- this is just intended to make e.g. REPL results print more cleanly, and to make e.g. introspection slightly nicer when querying `procedure-information`. The result is the same from core's point of view, but the user gets a cleaner experience. Evan ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 01:20:16AM -0700, Evan Hanson wrote: On 2014-07-23 10:06, Peter Bex wrote: This change doesn't make much sense to me unless we also deprecate the ##sys#-prefixed versions. ##sys#error sounds more internal or primitive than error, so (to me) it makes more sense to have error be an alias of ##sys#error, instead of the other way around. I don't think we should deprecate the prefixed versions -- this is just intended to make e.g. REPL results print more cleanly, and to make e.g. introspection slightly nicer when querying `procedure-information`. The result is the same from core's point of view, but the user gets a cleaner experience. Thanks for providing a motivation for this change. That makes sense indeed. Any objections from other chicken hackers? Cheers, Peter -- http://www.more-magic.net ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
From: Peter Bex peter@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:24:59 +0200 On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 01:20:16AM -0700, Evan Hanson wrote: On 2014-07-23 10:06, Peter Bex wrote: This change doesn't make much sense to me unless we also deprecate the ##sys#-prefixed versions. ##sys#error sounds more internal or primitive than error, so (to me) it makes more sense to have error be an alias of ##sys#error, instead of the other way around. I don't think we should deprecate the prefixed versions -- this is just intended to make e.g. REPL results print more cleanly, and to make e.g. introspection slightly nicer when querying `procedure-information`. The result is the same from core's point of view, but the user gets a cleaner experience. Thanks for providing a motivation for this change. That makes sense indeed. Any objections from other chicken hackers? No, this makes sense. felix ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
Felix Winkelmann felix.winkelm...@bevuta.com writes: From: Peter Bex peter@xs4all.nl Subject: Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:24:59 +0200 On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 01:20:16AM -0700, Evan Hanson wrote: On 2014-07-23 10:06, Peter Bex wrote: This change doesn't make much sense to me unless we also deprecate the ##sys#-prefixed versions. ##sys#error sounds more internal or primitive than error, so (to me) it makes more sense to have error be an alias of ##sys#error, instead of the other way around. I don't think we should deprecate the prefixed versions -- this is just intended to make e.g. REPL results print more cleanly, and to make e.g. introspection slightly nicer when querying `procedure-information`. The result is the same from core's point of view, but the user gets a cleaner experience. Thanks for providing a motivation for this change. That makes sense indeed. Any objections from other chicken hackers? No, this makes sense. I have pushed this patch. Thank you! ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
Peter Bex scripsit: I'm not sure deprecating the prefixed versions is worth the hassle, there are quite a few eggs using ##sys#error and ##sys#warn. They should be fixed: the ##sys# API is undocumented and eggs that use it are depending on something that's explicitly subject to change without notice. I see no reason to have identical ##sys# and regular versions of things: +1 to deprecating the ##sys# versions. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowanco...@ccil.org Eric Raymond is the Margaret Mead of the Open Source movement. --Bruce Perens, a long time ago ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
From: John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org Subject: Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:02:59 -0400 Peter Bex scripsit: I'm not sure deprecating the prefixed versions is worth the hassle, there are quite a few eggs using ##sys#error and ##sys#warn. They should be fixed: the ##sys# API is undocumented and eggs that use it are depending on something that's explicitly subject to change without notice. I see no reason to have identical ##sys# and regular versions of things: +1 to deprecating the ##sys# versions. They can't be deprecated, as these procedures are used internally. But user/egg code should still not use it, of course. felix ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
Felix Winkelmann scripsit: They can't be deprecated, as these procedures are used internally. I know that that is so, but is there any reason why it must be so? Could not internal use also be converted from ##sys#error to error, etc.? But user/egg code should still not use it, of course. A longer-term effort would be to migrate these names out of the chicken module and into a ##sys module, so that they are only imported explicitly. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowanco...@ccil.org You escaped them by the will-death and the Way of the Black Wheel. I could not. --Great-Souled Sam ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
John Cowan co...@mercury.ccil.org writes: Felix Winkelmann scripsit: They can't be deprecated, as these procedures are used internally. I know that that is so, but is there any reason why it must be so? Could not internal use also be converted from ##sys#error to error, etc.? Well deprecation is intended to give users of said procedures a heads up and allows them to change their code in advance. Since this is all internal API, I don't see the merit of such a process. Maybe it's nitpicking but I call this conversion simple refactoring which by itself also comes with costs and effort. But user/egg code should still not use it, of course. A longer-term effort would be to migrate these names out of the chicken module and into a ##sys module, so that they are only imported explicitly. This may be possible once the core has been confined inside a namespace which is a lenghty goal as another thread on this list has elaborated. Kind regards, Christian ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
Re: [Chicken-hackers] [PATCH] Remove ##sys# prefix from lambda-info names of library procedures
Christian Kellermann scripsit: Well deprecation is intended to give users of said procedures a heads up and allows them to change their code in advance. Since this is all internal API, I don't see the merit of such a process. If only it were internal API, I'd say nothing. But it is de facto external API as well, albeit undocumented. This is a Bad Thing. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowanco...@ccil.org Dievas dave dantis; Dievas duos duonos--Lithuanian proverb Deus dedit dentes; deus dabit panem --Latin version thereof Deity donated dentition; deity'll donate doughnuts --English version by Muke Tever God gave gums; God'll give granary--Version by Mat McVeagh ___ Chicken-hackers mailing list Chicken-hackers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-hackers
